burgdorf and ayman mohyeldin. "morning joe" starts right now. >> another humiliation came when president obama drew a red line in syria, and the whole world knew it meant absolutely nothing. >> the obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis a long time ago when he said the red line in the sand. >> north korea, like so many other things, is one more hillary clinton failure, barack obama failure. >> i inherited a mess, whether it's the middle east, whether it's north korea, whether it's so many other things. >> with that the world still waits to hear president trump's plan to deal with two major crises raging right now as he prepares for perhaps the most important meeting of his presidency today with the leader of china. joe, what did you make of the president's statement from the rose garden?

>> i think yesterday we talked about the president's unf unfortunate statement coming out of the white house talking about president obama. yesterday he righted himself, said what he needed to say, saying it's my problem now, it's on my shoulders. i think he heard the criticism attacking obama and how tone deaf it wasality the time. there are a lot of people, not only across the world, but a lot of people in america who i'm sure were heartened by the fact that this president wasn't going to say what every politician has said for the last five years, there's been a genocide in syria. that is, oh, it's just too hard and that's really -- we're sad and it's a shame, and we can't help them over there, we can't do anything. i think the president said that his mind was changed and he was going to seek action. it can only lead us to hope that he will work in other arab

country ts and work with our european allies and figure out some way to bring relief to the syrian people. we in the west have ignored them for too long. >> in moments we'll go way deeper on that. it's thursday, april 6th. with us we have seen your political analyst for nbc news and msnbc's mark halperin. onset, the president on the council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray, american foreign policy and the crisis of the orlando world ord order" richard haass. msnbc political analyst and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments, elise jordan. deputy managing editor of "time" magazine michael duffy and white house reporter for bloomberg news jennifer jacobs who broke the news about steve bannon losing his seat on the national security council. that is where we begin this morning. after ten weeks, senior counsel to thement has been removed from

the national security council. the order announced yesterday restored the joint chiefs stair man and intelligence director to the principals committee and added energy secretary, cia director and unit nations ambassador as well while putting the homeland security council under the national security adviser h.r. mechanics master's controls. a senior white house official says bannon only attended one meeting of the principals committee and was no longer needed to serve as a check of former national security adviser michael flynn. in a statement bannon said former national security adviser susan rice, quote, operationized the nsc during the last administration. i was put on to ensure it was deoperationalized. general mcmaster has returned to nsc to its proper function. last night vice president mike pence said the changes were nothing out of the ordinary.

>> i think the president's action, adding the chairman of the joint chiefs, adding the director of national intelligence and moving a couple of our senior personnel off the national security council simply represents a very routine evolution of the national security team around the president. >> so it's not a demotion for steve bannon? >> not for steve, not for tom. these are highly valued members of the administration "new york times" reports several associates quietly expressed annoyance that about the credit bannon received for setting up the agenda. and he wasn't happy about the puppet master theme promoted by late night talk shows. bannon was absent from yesterday's news conference having attended all others during the trump administration. a source says bannon only does

the things that are vital and health care was vital yesterday. "the new york times" says bannon resisted the move and even threatened to quit. joe? >> the times excerpt we put out there was sort of the bright shiny object talking about how he didn't like president bannon being mentioned all the time. he heard that not only externally but internally. there's actually more to the part of the story that donald trump sees polls that see him at 34, 35, 39%, and he understands steve bannon's view of how to run a white house and especially the executive order moving forward and fighting members of congress instead of working with them, he has grown to understand according to all the sources i've been talking to that a lot of that chaos comes from bannon. bannon himself has been extraordinarily frustrated inside the white house at one

point saying, hey, if my talents aren't needed here, i can take them somewhere else. bannon has been frustrated and angry. another person tells me he's been exhausted by all the incoming that he's taking and doesn't feel like he's gotten properly defended. so he threatened to quit, but he didn't quit. the trump team didn't fire him. mark halperin, they did sthilg r something much worse than firing steve bannon. they put him in charge of health care. the house recesses today. it's a classic move. this is part of a death spiral that we're watching. he's been attacking jared kushner quietly to third parties for some time. that never, ever ends well. and this is one step closer to running a super pac for the

mersers on the outside of the white house instead of all the nonsense he deals with on the inside of the white house. >> no doubt what people are talking about on the domestic side, the personnel side, there's a shakedown going on. the current policy priorities are not going to be what they are -- what they are now are not going to be what they are in maybe even a few weeks. on the other hand this is still a big foreign policy week. i think you're seeing now the president on syria, north korea, china here today, on the reorganization of the nsc, he's recognizing, as much as he wants to be unorthodox the country sees the president as the indispensable person on these issues. i think you're seeing him act more like a normal president, particularly yesterday in the rose garden. >> yesterday it looked like general mcmaster's national security council advice to the president of the united states walking out into the rose garden instead of steve bannon's. of course, we can never judge

donald trump by one thing he does because he'll do something later in the day deeply offensive. but as far as sending a signal to the world, how important is it that we have a national security council that has neither michael flynn nor steve bannon but instead has general mcmaster and dina powell as his number two? >> yesterday was a good day. you can choose a lot of things, joe, when you're president. the one thing you can't choose is your inbox. what i think this week has shown is the inbox is as daunting as it gets. you end it with the china summit. you had the egyptian president, jordanian king, the syrian chemical weapons used, the north korea missile test. you've got a lot coming at you. if someone like steve bannon wants to be the lebron james of american foreign bol see and take his talents elsewhere, i think that's probably a good step. these guys have as much on their

plate at once as any contemporary president has had. they've got to get their ducks in a row. this is only one step. you still have an unstaffed state department, unstaffed defense department. you don't have anything like a functioning national security council with deputies committees, principles committees. we're in month three and have to say this administration while it's traveled positive distance this week, still have a considerable ways to go. one of these crisis is going to mature and become a real crisis. i think we're getting close to it with both north korea and syria. >> jennifer, in breaking this story, does this in any way look like anything else but a step out the door for steve bannon? >> i know this is always going to kick off a series of the policies of the inner circle.

i spoke with several top officials and say no, it doesn't diminish his role. he lost a pro for ma seat at the principal's committee. he's still welcome at the larger body of the national security council. what was more interesting about this was the fact that michael flynn was maybe considered a little bit shaky. i was told the whole reason that steve bannon was placed on this principals committee, and i was told it was chief of staff reince priebus' idea to look over the shoulder of michael flynn, i wanted to make sure he got the job done. >> how sad is that, number one? can we even take a moment and go what? >> that's not true. >> the national security adviser. >> and then -- that's not true. and then the cover of your magazine, i can tell you i have seen the president with my own eyes get very upset at the attention bannon got which he rightfully deserved because he

pulled the strings on a lot of what is happening. does anybody disagree? joe? >> disagree with what, that bannon pulled a lot of the strings? >> and the president was irked by it. >> and the president was irritated about steve bannon for good reason. the fact that people were going around -- i would hear people, people in the media forever saying, oh, this nationalism strain of donald trump all started with steve bannon. i'm like did you not see -- >> the bannon way. >> i said did you not see jane pauley interviewing donald trump in 1987 and donald trump talking about japan the same way he talks about china today? did you not see katie couric -- you can go back 40 years. this is how donald trump has

spoken for 40 years. i don't know what steve bannon was doing in 1987, but i got a feeling he wasn't in the "today" show green room whispering, hey, donald, why don't you attack japan, in 1987, and saying george h.w. bush will never be president of the united states. it's ridiculous. >> michael? >> i think you have to keep in mind this morning that bannon has lost three big rounds here. he lost on immigration. that was a disaster. he did put himself on this panel. he worked it out with flynn and did it in advance in the first week, everyone was surprised. now that's undone. to call it a plan from the start is hysterical. he loses on this, loses on the immigration ban, he was driving the hard line on the freedom caucus during the health care vote and the health care votes whichever one had wrong. this is really three strikes. >> handed a clunker with health care. good luck with that. >> that really is the arc of

where he's going. to be handed health care when everyone knows it's dead. >> it's dead. >> i never would underestimate steve bannon. i think he still is going to play a role in national security. they made that clear, that he could still go to meetings as he saw fis and that he would be around. i think while he might be weakened, at the same time that these president bannon remarks did both are president trump, he also knows that was a tactic that a lot of the media was pressuring trump to lessen the grip of steve bannon. so i think donald trump is still going to have steve bannon in the room for a while. >> and the nsc needing a shadow. bannon was supposed to track what they were doing which is astonishing. that group still exists. part of that narrative has a piece of truth but it was never

dominant. >> to say that you put someone in the position of national security adviser who needs a babysitter, needs a minder, wouldn't that preclude putting that person in the job in the first place? this is one of the pivotal jobs in any u.s. government. >> pretty horrifying. and steve bannon is the person you put there. >> coming out against mike flynn at this point -- general flynn cannot be happy that steve bannon is running around he needed a bibby sitter as national security adviser. >> we have a lot of other news to get to. the president facing a number of pretty serious major foreign policy tests. 100 people reportedly killed, more than two dozen children in an attack in syria in a rebel-held area. the president spoke in the rose garden. here is more of what he said. he continued to harp on obama about this. take a look. >> yesterday chemical attack, a

chemical attack that was so horrific in syria against innocent people including women, small children and even beautiful little babies, their death deaths was an affront to humanity. these heinous actions by the assad regime cannot be tolerated. the yatunited states stands wit our allies across the globe to condemn this horrific attack. >> i think the obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis a long time ago when he said the red line in the sand, and when he didn't cross that line after making the threat, i think that set us back a long ways, not only in syria but in many other parts of the world.

>> i now have responsibility and i will have that responsibility and carry it very proudly. it crossed a lot of lines for me. when you kill innocent children, innocent babies, babies, little babies with a chemical gas that is so lethal, people were shocked to hear what gas it was, that crosses many, many lines, beyond a red line, many, many lines. >> i will tell you that attack on children yesterday had a big impact on me, big impact. i will tell you it's already happened that my attitude toward syria and assad has changed very much. as you know i'll be meeting with the president of china very soon in florida and that's another responsibility we have. that's called the country of north korea. we have a big problem. we have somebody that is not doing the right thing, and

that's going to be my responsibili responsibility. >> richard haass, a lot to talk about. the president taking the responsibility on his shoulders. he said what i think most of us would say about barack obama, i think even a lot of president obama's allies, about crossing the red line, so i wasn't as surprised about him answering a question with that as i was about putting it in the initial statement. he said it cannot be tolerated, assad crossed a lot of lines for me, my attitude toward syria and assad has changed. he talked about working with his allies. one of whom he was standing next to yesterday talking about becoming more of his influential allies. what did you hear yesterday in the president's remarks in the rose garden? >> i thought it was an important statement, joe. i think the president needs to stop talking about barack obama. he has a major opportunity to

differentiate himself from barack obama. this is actually something of a real opportunity for donald trump. it's his way to shea there's a new sheriff in town. when the united states is more prepared to act than it was. i think in syria, actually given what he said yesterday, and even if he hadn't said it, i believe there's a need to act there militarily. there's a whole range of options we can talk about, what what it is we might do to penalize the government. it says we're more involved there -- it says you can't use a weapon of mass destruction with impunity. that connects to the north korean issue. when you're the leader of the united states, you can't see the kwars on the chess board in isolation. what we do has implications for how china sees north korea and what north korea is going to do. i think there's an opportunity, but i believe a necessity for the united states to say anyone who uses a weapon of mass destruction, they are going to pay a price. it doesn't mean we're going to

war in syria, doesn't moo en we switch to regime change overnight. it needs we need actions to hurt the syrian government, possibly help the syrian people. that will send a major message and makes china understand it can't continue to allow the north korean situation to drip. this is a major turning point because the two big issues in the president's inbox are come together with the third. it's going to make him reassess his whole view of vladimir putin. the russians are saying this is about the rebels. it's all coming together here. i think when the history is potentially written of this administration, this week could turn out to be pif is toll. >> this could turn out to be pivotal. mika, there is an opportunity not only for the president to differentiate himself but more importantly for western democracies and for our arab allies who i will say this

administration, at least sunni arab allies have a closer relationship with the trump administration than they did the obama administration. we've heard it personally. some leaders telling us that they, quote, love donald trump, to our surprise, but they do. he's got an opportunity to bring an alliance together and not invade syria, but at least make sure that the allies' response to this attack is measured, but also focuses perhaps on the syrian air force and perhaps our allies help ground the syrian air force. we, as a country and we as a civilization cannot stand begin and allow another chemical attack to go unanswered again because, quote, it's hard. yes, it's hard. it's even more hard living in a world where tyrants get the

green light to use chemical weapons against women and children has assad has done. barack obama gave assad a green light to do that. the west gave assad a green light to do that. the question now is will donald trump continue to give assad the green light, or will he work with allies who are willing. at one point i heard the french were willing to work with barack obama to help ground the syrian air force. i would guess, mika, those offers will be coming in for help if that's what he wants to do. >> major opportunity. we're going to talk about this more. we have much more ahead on these foreign policy challenges facing the trump administration and the possibilities at hand. in his major meeting today with the leader of china, we'll speak live with the top democrat in the house intelligence committee, congressman adam schiff, michael mcfall and

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who's that? show me watchathon. xfinity watchathon week! now until april 9. get unlimited access to all of netflix and more, free with xfinity on demand. president trump is defending fox news host bill o'reilly against accusations of sexual harassment. even as more major companies pull ads from his top rated program -- this is the list of companies that has done so so far. according to cnc the list includes bmw, mercedes-benz, glaxosmithkline. o'reilly has been under fire since "the new york times" reported saturday that either the host or fox paid about $13 million to five women since 2002

settling cases of alleged inappropriate behavior by o'reilly. in an oval office interview with the times yesterday, the president was asked if o'reilly was being treated fairly. he responded, he is a person i know well. he's a good person, i think he shouldn't have settled. i don't think bill did anything wrong. bill o'reilly denies the allegations against him and said he settled to, quote, put it to rest any controversies to spare my children. a couple things. mark halperin, what do you make of the notion of the president addressing this in the oval office and taking it a step further? >> i said in the first block the president was acting more like a normal president and i think he was in giving mcmaster the ability to run the national security council in the rose garden statement yesterday. some people at home like ron fornier were suggesting i was going all in in saying the

president was normal. right before his statement on syria, this is not normal for a president. it creates a huge distraction, gets tons of coverage and yesterday should have been about project strength as he did on syria. but it is pure trump and classic trump for him to also be willing to address bill o'reilly. there's no reason to address it, none. >> none at all. alleys, wh elise, what do you think? >> i guess he can juggle multiple issues at a time that are of importance to him. it's shocking that so many staffers are around this president and he still continues -- he cannot control his impulsivity. you see in "the new york times" interview with maggie haberman and glenn thrush, hope hicks interjected to try to stop him and steer the conversation in the right direction. you have the chief of staff, sean spicer in the room. i think hope hicks is probably one of the best influences on

donald trump in this administration. >> any time you have five or ten or 15 assistants, all of whom are circling around the president, these sort of things happen. one of the real questions is whether this administration becomes a more traditional one over time and narrows the range of people who have direct access to the president. otherwise this sort of thing will continue. everybody has got his or her own focus. >> and jockeying for position rather than counseling and trying to curb his worse impulses. >> joe? >> if you're walking into a meeting, you need a chief of staff, somebody you trust, a communication director saying, president trump, they're going to be asking you about bill o'reilly, probably ask you about what you said about barack obama yesterday, they're going to ask you about susan rice. today we're talking about syria. all you say, whatever they ask, listen, those are important issues, but right now we're all

focused on syria, we're in the oval office trying to figure out how we respond to this heinous attack and i'm not going to comment. mika, here is the comment. i'm just not going to comment. ask me the question. i'm sorry, i'm thinking about syria. and then you turn it on them by saying, i think more people are probably interested in the slaughter in syria right now than what's going on at fox news. that's very important, and i understand why it's important, but americans expect me to comment on chemical weapon attacks on citizens, not on fox news. and you move them back. seriously, that was his job yesterday, to focus on syria, not bill o'reilly. >> we'll be talking to one of the reporters who was in the room. i think the president brought it up himself off the record in some way.

it's even more blurty. it's also disgusting. you don't take sides on a settlement in a sexual harassment case that clearly has some legs somewhere in a network that is finally going to change its culture and do the right thing. the add stiezers are speaking and women are speaking and i think it's going to work out. but the president shouldn't have done that. coming up, the only thing worse than isis wanting a dirty bomb is knowing where to get one. the new issue of "time" magazine will grab your attention. we'll reveal the cover straight ahead. knowing where you stand has never been easier.

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joining us, anya manuel, the co-founder in strategic consulting firm with former secretary of state condoleezza rice, former national security adviser stephen hadley and former secretary of defense robert gates. also with us, former nato supreme allied commander from tufts university, retired four star navy admiral james t james tavridis. joe, where do you want to begin? >> admiral, what would you do -- if you were advising the

president of the united states tod today, on a response, even if it's a limited response, but a response all the same to the images we've seen coming out of syria? what would your advice be? >> i'd start by saying, joe, we can't take our eye on the main ball here which remains the islamic state. we don't want to lose our momentum there. let's part that. in terms of response to the chemical weapons, i think richard haass got it about right, big opportunity. i'd get the allies together. you've already heard support from france and the unit kingdom and perhaps starting to put more effort into the syrian oppositi opposition. the real analogy here is perhaps the balkans. i think a quick reaction would probably entail getting the allies together, notably the turks who have the largest army in nato looking at a creation of

a safety zone and putting a plan together with our allies to respond to this because we can't let this stand. >> would you consider air strikes against assad's air force that dropped these weapons? >> that is certainly the plan, was the plan in the 2013 red line situation. i think that's probably the most dramatic response you could take. you'd want to measure that one pretty carefully and think through what happens after you do that, but i think if you want a specific immediate proximate, that's going to be on the table for discussion at the national security council. >> discussions today and tomorrow with the president of china will be happening, anya. >> this is absolutely a get-to-know-i don't summit. we shouldn't expect any big

deliverables. it's a good idea for leaders to come early and often to learn how to deal with president trump and his team. i think both sides will be looking for a smooth summit. as you know, president xi is going into his own national party congress this fall. he can't have a big blowup with the united states, and the president very much needs a win. >> richard? >> i agree with that 100% what anja said. the chinese will quickly put on the table goodies for the united states, some investment. so they can show american jobs are being created. i think the most interesting thing will be the conversation agent north korea. neither side is ready for a negotiation, but i think they'll set in motion a channel for follow-on talks. it's a way to let the chien neegs know we are expecting them to use the influence they say we don't have, but we know they do have with north korea, and i think that's what this summit will set up. >> michael? >> to pull the whole morning together, to bring it to one piece, the question now whether

it's syria or china and north korea, is what does the saved and reestablished national security council under h.r. mcmaster put on the table for the president now that they've debannonized the white house? what will these guys actually tee up for today's meeting specifically in syria about what steps to take and of course on north korea. this is their moment to actually reset a foreign policy that looks familiar as opposed to one -- >> not completely debannonized, joe, but certainly the first cut has happened and there is a fairly strong foreign policy team in place. >> there's no doubt about it. they've got a very strong foreign policy team in place. they have to staff the state department and pentagon right now. you look at the principals, the president has a great opportunity to draw upon some of the best minds in washington, d.c. right now i'm going to draw upon one of the best minds on the planet, of course, the great richard haass.

richard, in your boston globe piece i was talking about grilling, of course -- don't get a big head. in "the boston globe" piece, you write there's no reason for us to fall into the mistaken belief that we must either be in a hot war or a cold war with china, that actually we may be able to work with them in ways that we can't work with russia because china obviously is a massive economy. that economy is integrated across the globe and they actually like us have much to lose with a hot or cold war. talk about that. >> absolutely. that's where the parallels with russia i think break down. russia is one-tenth the size of russia, basically a gas and oil economy. it has coercive force, whether it's cyber or military. china is a real country with a real economy. its future is totally dependent on access to the region and the world. as anja said, what they want to

do is have these stable. this is nothing now. the whole jhung show ping of china, this needs to continue. it becomes a very different century. imagine the united states and china can deal with north korea, deal with climate issues, avoid a trade war, it is a fundamentally different 21st century than if the united states and china begin to mimic the patterns of the united states and the soviet union. there's a school of thought that thinks this negative future is inevitable. i think it would be a great failure of diplomacy if the united states and china ended up at loggerheads. i think the future is yet to be written here. i think there's a real opportunity. what this summit this week does, it's a small step, but a smael step to get these countries on the right trajectory. >> mika, that's what your father said when he was receiving award at columbia this last week end,

this relationship that became official in your parent's house in 1979 in mcclaine, there have been a lot of ups and downs over those four years or so. your father was saying this past weekend, this is why defines u.s. foreign policy. he and richard haass agree, there's much at stake at this meeting. >> we need to continue this conversation and bring in the cover of "time" magazine, anja, please stay with us. we'll be right back. what's it like to be in good hands? like finding new ways to be taken care of. home, car, life insurance obviously, ohhh...

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sobering cover story for "time" magazine, uranium underworld. isis wants a dirty bomb and it knows where to get one. michael duffy, happy thursday. tell us about it. >> today's theme is instability, whether in the middle east or in asia. this is just another piece of it which is, there is a kind of super highway of radioactive goods that you can get or get into if you're in the market for a dirty bomb which is a radioactive device that doesn't exactly kill people, but in a small package like a suitcase or backpack in a big city can cause a huge amount of terror, a huge fear during the last two administrations because it does huge economic damage, terrifying people. what the story is about is how between essentially russia and the caucus cusses mountains and down into turkey in the former

soviet states there is a burgeoning black market of materials both from the former soviet arsenal and from the way you can pick up the material in all kinds of spaces now and what threat that poses for the u.s. and the west. >> joe, as michael lays the groundwork we have anja manuel and admiral stavridis standing by. >> i'll open it up to whoever feels more qualified to answer this. we worried about al qaeda putting a dirty bomb in times square five, six, seven, eight years ago. what is stopping that? what has prevented that so far and what's our best move to prevent that from happening over the next five, six, seven years? >> we've done very important intelligence work on all of these groups. i think we are miles different from where we were when we were attacked on september 11th, so that's positive.

this is, of course, the nightmare scenario and not 100% under control. far from that. you look at the fight that's been happening with isis in syria. in iraq it's quite clear that the caliphate is going to go away, we're going to win that military battle, but that doesn't mean we've won the battle against isis and stories like this emphasize we need to continue to be vigilant here in the united states. >> admiral stavridis. >> as i managed earlier, we need to keep the pressure on to make sure we complete the kinetic effort in raqqa because that will undermine the command and control of these things. i'd see three things we need to be doing, one is international cooperation on this intelligence piece. the second is interagency cooperation, how are we bringing

the different pieces and parts together. lastly and most importantly is private-public cooperation here. a lot of this flows from commercial actors. there's a trail of this, as mentioned in the story. it also runs through muoldova. using the intel as anja says, we can work this, but it is a challenge and time is right to highlight it. >> admiral james tavridis. coming up, "washington post's" bob costa and glenn thrush from "the new york times." stay with us. can i get some help. watch his head. ♪ i'm so happy. ♪ whatever they went through, they went through together. welcome guys.

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>> closing out the first hour of "morning joe." you now have news on health care. what president you hear something. >> it sounds like the white house is pushing on some action on that he can heck bill t. white house would like to see a vote in the rules committee

today before house members leave for their two-week recess. i am told by a white house official the goal is to add an amendment on high risk pool. that has to do with subs ziez -- subsidizing the severely ill in that category. it sounds like they're hoping for a vote today. i am told house leaders will be meeting out west. it sounds like the white house is really trying to be able to say they've made some action before the house leave force vesey. >> joe -- >> mark halperin has been very busy, go ahead, micah. >> i was thinking since they were effective, it's so food this is his big lump of coal now. joe. >> well, actually, that was worse than firing him, i mean it, putting him in charge of health care, where health care talks 2.o broke down even worse.

so that's basically his opportunity to exit over time gracefully. mark halperin, it's been a very momentous week. i think history will look back and see the attacks in syria, the chemical attacks against women and children in syria will be a pivotal moment in this administration. in its firstier, especially. but we have two more days left. two more momentous days left, including an extraordinarily important meeting where you are down in palm beach. how do you see the next two days playing out? >> you know even more than the domestic policy the president's in-house can't control their inbox on foreign policy, between korea and the missile test this is supposed to be a low key event. no press conferences have been aloud as we know. can the president lay the groundwork as richard said with future deals with china or is

the president going to be forced to talk today and/or tomorrow about what is still happening with syria and north korea. >> that will be a big thing to look at. does the president stay engaged with those two issues or have a quiet summit? >> mark halperin, jennifer jacobs, thank you, both. coming up, we will set the stage for the highly anticipated u.s. summit that gets under way at mar-a lago, new reporting on steve bannon's removal from the national security council. plus, the chairman of the house adam schiff and congressman adam kensinger who says he is ashamed of our government's response on the chemical attack in syria so far. >> obviously, we will highlight the attacks and show what assad has done to his people and what western democracies have basically done to the syrian people by doing absolutely nothing. we will talk about that and a lot more coming up. bought every day

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good afternoon, everyone. >> good afternoon, mr. spicer. >> let's take your questions. >> oh, oh, me, me, me. >> one at a time. cecilia. >> can i feed fish today? >> major is asking a question, that doesn't mean you get to jump in. >> i'm actually asking if you could be polite as not to interrupt me.

>> what are we doing about russia? >> hey, john, can you stop interrupting other people? >> it's my turn. >> no, no. >> yes, yes, yes, yes. >> at some point aapril you have to take no for an answer, stake no for an answer. >> you never give us the answer. >> i look forward to seeing you tomorrow. i think tomorrow is going to be one question friday. thank you all. >> oh my gosh, that might be the best skit i've seen so far. did you see that, joe? i love it. >> that was great stuff. great stuff. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday, april 6th. with us we have the deputy manager michael duffy, msnbc political analyst lee jordan. political reporter for the walk poverty, robert costa and "new york times" white house correspondent glen thrush. oh, so much to ask you.

>> glen is really, glenn's turned into this pop culture figure because of ""snl"" and "late night." i hope you have an agent. i think there is going to be a one man show on broadway if this continues in like a year. >> if you we heard me sing, joe, you wouldn't be making that comparison. >> yeah, well, we want to hear you talk this morning. i want to hear about that moment in the oval office yesterday when the president actually talked about the fox news settlements. i don't get it. we'll get there. after ten weeks senior counsellor to the president steven bannon has been been removed from the security council. also restored the joint chiefs chairman intelligence director to the principle's committee, cia director and united nations ambassador as well. while putting the homeland security council under a national security adviser, h.r. mcmaster's control a. senior

white house official said bannon had only attended one meeting of the principles committee and was no longer needed to serve as a check on former national security adviser michael flynn. let that breathe. in a statement -- >> that is weak, weak sauce, micah. that's about as weak as it gets. >> it's amazing. think about it. it's all bad. in a statement, bannon said, former national security adviser susan rice, quote, operationalized the nsc during the last administration. i was put on to ensure that it was de-operationalized. general mcmaster was returned the nsc to its proper function. but the new york time's reports several associates of the president had quietly expressed annoyance over the credit bannon received for setting the agenda. trump was not pleased by the credit mr. bannon had received

for setting the agenda. bannon was conspicuously absent from yesterday's news conference, having attended all others during the trump administration a. source tells nbc news bannon only does the foreign leader things that are vital and that he can heck was vital yesterday. the "new york times" reports that bannon resisted the move and even threatened to quit. but bannon tells nbc this morning, the report is total nonsense, another anonymous administration official also says it's false. joe, what do you think? >> well, bannon is not telling the truth. by the way, so this nsc setup, i don't understand it. so bannon was going to be watch -- looking after flynn, who is going to be looking after bannon? don't you feed somebody to look after him? i'd be just as concerned with bannon as flynn. glen thrush, he says the story is wrong, but, glen, i have been

hearing for two weeks from the needs that bannon is increasingly frustrated. he feels under siege. he's exhausted. he's been telling people close to him that he doesn't understand why he's taking all te arthe arrow, he can make money, not put up with this garbage and quietly leaking to parties, declaring a war against jared kushner, which, of course, we learned not a smart thing to do. so talk about your reporting and the spin that the white house was trying to throw your way about this move? >> hey, by the way, thanks for just writing stormy's story for me right there -- tomorrow's story for me right there. >> you just come on the show, write it down and go. >> what you said is exactly what we have been hearing, politico had an interesting twist on this, that is forgive my voice,

by the way. >> that bannon was very close to the mercer family, close to rebecca mercer, had been considered quitting and was talked off the ledge by his patron matron rebecca mercer. that's another twist in this. look the bottom line, not to be a brave surgeon, i got to watch using that with dr. carson at hud. the issue here is bannon, that bannon cluster, steven miller, julia hahn, that group in the white house have set a really long losing streak and the president has been encountering partially through tweets of his own, partially through a half-baked legislative strategy. he's had loss after loss after loss. bannon also as this process has moved from writing executive orders, which as we recall didn't exactly go smoothly. as we move into the legislative

arena, bannon has told people i talked to he has very little legislative experience and less interest in how the legislature works. he is going in as a tough guy closer, which didn't work with the freedom caucus, saying take or leave this offer, he did not play a central role in that. pence is moving into some of that territory. what is also interesting, joe, is the priebus-bannon dynamic. for a while that dynamic seemed to be solidified. all we were talking about is how they were at each other's throats. >> that seems to be coalescing into more of an alliance at this point. >> it's coalescing into a convenience, because bob casta, it's a zero sum game in the white house now, have you the rise of coen, dina powell jared and ivan car, over the past several weeks, it's been obvious to people in the white house and close to the white house from the outside that donald trump is

looking at some of the mistakes in the past 60 days. he spends nights calling his friends, which would exclude me, and asking them what he needs to do. and he has been moving towards the goldman sachs jared and avan ka site. bannon has sensed that. you and i both know that steve bannon is a very smart player, he usually keeps his cards close to his chest. i haven't understood why over the past several weeks he started attacking jared kushner to third parties, but he has, which suggests that he knows the gig is up. what can you tell me about your reporting inside the white house? what are you hearing? >> based on my reporting, bannon has remained a confidante of the president throughout this process, but there are, as you have said, many other players, such as gary coen, dina powell, reince priebus who are gaining stature in the white house,

building their own relationships with president trump. bannon i am told was involved last night in the health care discussion. right. i'm told it's not bannon leading on the health care discussions, it's vice president pence working close with priebus to try to revive the talks, glen's reporting was spot on. they were the first to report bannon was very frustrated with the move on the national security counsel sill, but there is afternoon acknowledgement that mcmaster is asserting himself, he's not an enemy of bannon in the view of the bannon camp and they're okay with him taking control more fully of the nsc, even if they privately wish bannon was still there. >> right now, micah, bannon has one allie, he still remains the president of the united states, he is growing wary of the mistakes, the first 60 day, and he is increasingly isolated and to show how they're working, moving bannon to the side, do

you remember broadcast news. >> yeah. >> there was that character they were trying to get rid of, she ended up reporting from alaska? i think snow was all around her, basically sent her off to alaska. >> i have been that reporter. yeah. >> doing the story, yeah, to get out of the way. >> yeah. >> i'm serious about this, they've now put steve bannon in charge of health care. as the house is going home, as they've rejected the white house overtu overtures for the second time, as the senate said they're not taking over health care, basically. so you basically have, as they said, you can take control of the titanic, by the way, we hit an iceberg 15 minutes ago, we're getting it live. >> this comes while really there could be an opportunity for a turning point for this president as he faces his first two major tests on foreign policy and

backing up the challenges that these temps have is the images that come with them, which is horrifying. nearly 100 people were reportedly killed, including more than two dozen children on a rebel-held area in syria. it's hard to look at. yesterday the president echoed an initial statement condemning the attack, while continuing to harp on obama. >> yesterday, chemical attack, a chemical attack that was so horrific in syria against innocent people, including women, small children and even beautiful little babies, their deaths was a front to humanity. these heinous actions by the assad regime cannot be

tolerated. the united states stands with our allies across the globe to condemn this horrific attack. well, i think the obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis a long time ago, when he said the red line in the sand. when he didn't cross that line after making the threat, i think that set us back a long way, not only in syria, but in many other parts of the world. i now have responsibility and i will have that responsibility and carry it very proudly. it crossed a lot of lines for me. when you kill innocent children, innocent babies, babies, little babies, with a chemical gas that is so lethal, people were shocked to hear what gas it was, that crosses many, many lines, beyond the red line, many, many lines. i will tell you that attack on

children yesterday had a big impact on me, a big impact and i will tell you, it's already happened that my attitude towards syria and assad has changed very much. >> okay. so the question is, how and what will he do? he sounds resolute here. richard, what are the possibilities? >> he does sound resolute. president sis get defined by as much of what you don't do as you do. i think his options are a few. he can one way or another attack syrian airbases, you can do it with missiles on a riskier move, a more dramatic move is to use airplanes t. reason it's more risky is the possibility of something happening with russia. another would be, we already faced the challenge, micah, what are we going to do once the isis russia controls near rajka are liberated. who will take control? one of the things you can do here is increase the amounts of arms flow and support you give to selected sunni groups. so my hunch is what we will see

is possibly some combination or forceful action against syria to send a message you can't do this and not pay a price. secondly, gin pr acknowledgment sell rate the process of preparing for friendly groups to control larger swaths of syrian territory so people can stay there or go to safer place zpls you see a moment where trump says, wait a minute, i'm the president of the united states, this has affected me. that's what it seems to me. as you look at what's happened this week, there is a consome days ago of power and a move towards stability. they have been running the white house the last ten weeks on improvi improv. we have a national security treasurer who seems to be consolidating his power. if they have a system where they have a more empowered chief of staff, they might move to a white house that can function at the rpm they need. >> i don't have any signals or

understanding of where tillerson is going to be in this pothole. i feel h.r. mcmaster is going to step up in a big way. why do you feel that way? >> well, i hope general mcmaster will step up. but where he needs to step is up pushing president trump to have some kind of grand strategy. this horrific chemical attack, i don't want just an emotive one off response, disconnected from our overall foreign policy, how are we channeling our economic and diplomatic power and where does this syria peace fall into it? is it to deter them with weapons of mass destruction? how is this connected to our overall national security and what kind of military response can we do given how overstretched we are around the world, especially in places like yemen, where we should be having the same debate there. >> joe. >> glen, there were a couple

times during the first 60 days where we saw a crack in donald trump and that he was actually personally impacted by something you saw, one is when he got back from dover, it seems yesterday in the rose garden, we sensed a bit of that. you sat down for an interview, you and maggie with him yesterday. i'm curious, other than him telling you that he's not going to teledpraf any of his military moves, what did you pick up in that room regarding syria and the attack and what he might do? >> well, what was really interesting is, he said obviously similar things about how moved he was by those images, then he went on a fairly extended denunciation of the obama administration policy as the white house had done in a statement the previous day, which i thought was really numpblt i had never seen that sort of thing in a presidential statement before. i don't know if it has been in a presidential statement before. then what i wanted to know was did he believe that this rose to

the level of phone calls to vladimir putin, assad's allie? and a lot of people think a better in these sorts of attacks. and he not said whether or not he would do that. as we recall a couple days earlier, he had spoken with putin over the terrible st. petersburg attacks, moreover, i asked him how he felt with russia. i guess in terms of baby steps, he said it was a sad day for russia t. most we could get out of him. we pressed him on the point three or four times was he was disappointed. >> so what have you picked up, bob costa, about the president's reaction to what he's seen in syria and the likelihood he may actually move towards certain action? >> i think his public statements revealed a lot. i think mcmaster who has not yet

given an interview or public statements, his rise within the national security community and within the white house is telling on several fronts. when i was speaking to several top white house officials last night, they said, mcmaster often talked about brent scowcroft, who was an ad advisor to gerald ford and george w. bush. what does that mean for mcmaster? he says when mcmaster talks about scowcroft. this comes to micah's question about tillerson, he wants to empower tillerson in a more real way to be a part of these discussion, so the president is not just listening to white house officials but really engaging with the cabinet as he crafts a national security strategy. whether that happens, we'll have to see. >> that is how mcmaster sees the world and sees the operation and how he'd like to move forward. >> and glen, we need to clear something up here. micah suggested that perhaps

donald trump brought up the bill o'reilly situation over at fox. curious, how did that come about and did you report that hope stepped in and tried to move him away from that? >> you know, i don't remember the exact sequencing of it. i don't have the zabruder tape. but, hope, let me put it this way, hope definitely wanted the president to talk about up from structure in that conversation. and we were totally prepared to do that. i think the o'reilly comments as i recall came up with the context of him talking about how lousy the "new york times" was and how bad our coverage was about how good the fox coverage was. then i don't recall specifically how it came up, but i think he mentioned o'reilly first and answered the question essentially that he thought o'reilly should not have settled and that he should have quote

taken it all the way. >> susan rice is a criminal and o'reilly should not have settled. got it. >> i will say also. >> got it. >> you invite reporters into the oval office to insult their newspapers. is that it, glenn? >> well, i don't buy that. my relatives do that to me. look the thing that was amazing about that is, you know, there have been stories written about sort of how proximity is power. i have been in the oval a couple of times. i have never been in such a crowded oval office in my spire life. it had to be aggregate 12, 15, 16 people move income and out. it was really amazing. at somerset point in the middle of the interview, mike pence and reince priebus drift in. they're standing on the side watching this like it's a live tv show. >> michael duffy, it reminds me,

michael duffy, of what i we heard about the clinton, the first couple years of the clinton administration the frustrations, that and i we heard people that worked for bill clinton complaining about they would be in there with him and people would just wander in and out, that it was more like grand central station. there was no discipline, there was no minder at the gate, it was chaos. >> that will be the same thing with trump, you will be in the oval office, there will be a gang of people just kind of wandering through, standing there, staring, going and leaving, coming back, bizarre, i've never seen anything like it. >> you need to think of the white house at the moment as a daily show, if you try and imagine what today will be for tomorrow, you are probably wrong. it's a performance, everyone wants to be on stage. but i think there is a difference between the clinton white house and the obama and excuse me the trump white house. there is an element of fear to this one. i think to micah's question, where is tillerson, where is

mcmaster? where is mattis? the voices of foreign policy who might converse on stability on what the u.s. is doing overseas. they're there, but my sense is they're waiting. they're not quite ready to step in and say, wooer in charge now. because there is a definite feeling if you get too far out in this white house and bannon was a part of this, will you get swatted. you could take too much attention, too much control, that's why mcmaster has been very hard to find. tillerson you pointed out, has not been breaking a lot of cover. we are waiting for these men to step up. but i think they're waiting to make sure the coast is clear. >> you are not saying -- >> i am. >> exactly. that's exactly what happened, you know, after the first executive order, where you had people rushing to the front of the line, steve bannon, stephen miller rushing to the front of the liner, let, everybody know it was their executive order, a very wise lesson was learned

after that blew up as terribly as it blew up. suddenly two weeks later, everybody was stepping back, if they had an idea, they'd turn and look and go, what do you think of this idea? so it became a more traditional bureaucratic white house, where people were covering themselves, micah, they all know a shakedown is coming. everybody knows, donald trump has been telling friends for two weeks that he's going to change things in the white house and that may be, michael duffy may be exactly right. that's why everybody is keeping their head down. they will see how this all shakes out. i have been saying it for a little while. i believe it's the case. bannon is going to leave, i think reince priebus will probably survive steve bannon. >> that would be something, glen thrush, robert costa, thank you. we will head to palm beach where the president talks to his count parents.

we will talk about adam kensinger, he has been calming on takening on the assad regime. we will talk about a possible end game. plus the top democrat on the house intel committee, congressman adam schiff. are you watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. i wanted to know who i am and where i came from. i did my ancestrydna and i couldn't wait to get my pie chart. the most shocking result was that i'm 26% native american. i had no idea. just to know this is what i'm made of, this is where my ancestors came from. and i absolutely want to know more about my native american heritage. it's opened up a whole new world for me. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. knowing where you stand. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making retirement planning clearer.

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add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount as you know, i'll be meeting with the president of china very soon in florida and that's another responsibility we have and that's called the country of north korea. we have a big problem. we have somebody that is not doing the right thing and that's going to be my responsibility. >> president trump previewing his first face-to-face meeting with china's leader today in florida. so here on set, the news and finance anchor, michael duffy, richard haase, joe and lee. first of all, we have

republicans coming up on the show, i misspoke. >> okay. >> it's interesting the way that president trump was so strong on syria, there is almost hope that there might be a pivotal point in this presidency on foreign policy challenges. i'm still vexed though at how he can be so complimentary of vladimir putin and so strong on other issues. >> i think this is the harshest criminal in the "new york times" all he said he was disappointed if russia's actions, he's not going to get anywhere in syria without some sort of cooperation or confrontation with russia. i guess the question is, what is it going to take for russia to cooperate with him? because right now there is no incentive and russia is planted there. it's invested in the region. we know syria is home to russia's one naval base in the region. so without having any sort of incentive, there is no reason for russia who obviously is

propping up assad to do anything different. joe. >> richard, there is no reason for russia to cooperate with us. chances are likely that confrontation, we would have to confront putin rather than cooperate with him. and isn't that the same thing we can say about north korea and china. if china were going to step in and do something dramatic with north korea, wouldn't they have done that a long time ago? >> in terms of russia and syria, you are probably right in the long run, they do not want it to be a costly process. i'm not ruling out in the long run, mr. putin is many things, but emotionally connected to people is not one of them. so i think the possibility that he could distance himself from assad or even iran down the road, i wouldn't rule it out over time. in terms of china and north korea, look, they don't like the north koreans much. they don't need a crisis, china

is caught in the dilemma. they want to be more than flexible. they don't want to pressure them so much they bring about their collapse. i think the challenge for xi jinping is to get them to thread the needle. he gets them to use force or north korea collapses and you suddenly have a war on the peninsula or ultimately a united korea in the american strategic order. for x jinping, this is an enormous calculation how to plant that goldilocks position, putting pressure but not too much. >> micah, if donald trump physicals out how to deal with the chinese in a way that's constructive regarding north cre why, that would, everybody talks about middle east peace. >> that is right now just as difficult and more dangerous to the world. we have gotten this wrong since

bill clinton. we have been lied to by the north koreans since bill clrnths sent jimmy carter over in 1994, it continues even today. >> well, you see also a shift in power inside the administration. you do have the foreign policy team. so i guess worth keeping an open mind as we watch this untold. still ahead the top democrat on the house intelligence committee says the president promised to let his staff review documents related to those wiretapping claims, cla imse the president's staff refused to make it happen. congressman adam schiff is next.

>> i could have used adam schiffs help two years ago getting documents from a different white house, so i applaud him for finally coming to the full realization you need documents to be able to conduct an investigation. i fully expect this white house to provide all documents that are not otherwise legally protected. i have no reason to believe they were not. i think those documents will be

provided in time to conduct fulsome interviews necessary. i smile a little bit at the irony of congressman schiff complaining about a white house that won't produce documents. i swear i could have used his help over the last six years. >> joining us now, ranking member of the house select committee democratic congressman adam schiff, thank you for being on the service this morning. >> it's great to be with you. >> i wonder if you could first comment on the bannon news, his removal from the nsc? >> i think it's a very positive step. he certainly introduced a political element that doesn't long there. from my own point of view, he doesn't long in the white house either. this is i hope a first and very positive step. certainly if it shows general mcmaster is getting the authority he was proimsed to get his personnel decisions to consolidate decision over the nsc, i hope it will result in a

policy less focused on making obama for things and what are the decisions we need to make in syria. i would hope the president right now asking him, what are my options, what are the diplomatic options, if necessary, what is the legal basis to use force, if that's necessary. what argument do we need to make with the russian, after all, they are their client. they brokered a deal. assad clearly didn't comply with it. i'm hoping the removal of bannon and consolidation in authority in mcmaster result in a more sound policy. >> do you want to respond with trey gowdy. he talked about you being less than forthcoming with documents at times. >> the irony during benghazi, i was urging we allow the white house and state department automate searches to use whatever terms mr. gowdy wanted and get documents more quickly.

they didn't want to do. that i think they wanted to fight with the white house and the state department. i think mr. gowdy's chief argument is i don't want it to be run like the benghazi was, that was a political instrument. >> that would be the worst thing possible for this administration to come. >> congressman, richard haase here, do you think they can claim the legitimacy here and the perception they can carry out a investigation or do you think it's been taken out of the game and it's up to the senate or some other mechanism. >> it certainly hasn't been taken out of the game. we are fully one-half of the resources devoted to the russian investigation. so there is no way that we can walk away from our responsibility. there is certainly a cloud over it on the basis of the chairman's evening rendezvous at the white house and the way the white house tried to effectively use the committee to lapder the investigation. >> that cloud will persist t. speaker said nonetheless this

chairman will continue to run the investigation. we will have to deal with that fact until and unless there is a decision by the republican leadership to establish a fully independent commission. nonetheless, we are now in the process of agreeing on our initial witness list. i think we made a little progress on that. we'll be scheduling people to come in before the committee. we continue to review documents. and we continue to press the white house to share these documents that now only the chairman and i have seen at the white house, apart from our staff with the full committee t. president did make it clear to me when i met with him, he had no objection to people having access to these documents. it is apparently his staff that are objecting and you would think if these documents were so insinuating as they would like to suggest that they would want the full committee members to review them, so let's put them to the test. let's see if they will back up the president's words on this. >> congressman, obviously, the president has we heard your concerns and has we heard your

version of the story and how it unfolded following your meeting with him, where he said that he would present you with the documents. you have yet to be printed with the documents. it's been a few days now since your meeting. given all of that, is this a president that you trust? >> again, i don't think it's my version the white house hasn't quarrelled with what the president said. they simply don't agree with his recommendation apparently, in terms of trusting the president, you know, look, i have a very important investigation to try to help run and that requires me simply to follow the evidence where it leads, it doesn't require me to have trust or lack of trust in the president. i can tell you that i find it enormously distressing that the commander-in-chief will level accusations against president obama committing a crime and now susan rice of committing a crime without putting forward any evidence. but you know, equally troubling, is the fact that, you know, in the meeting, for example, with

one of our strongester allies, angela merkel, he would do things deliberately insulting to reportedly hand her a bill for amounts due like she is a debtor or a deadbeat of some kind. that's the kind of thing you do if you want to directly sabotage an important relationship. i don't see why that would benefit the united states anyway, shape or form. it's not just about trust, but it is about whether these actions are damaging our national security. >> joe. >> congressman, obviously, we agree with most of what you have said this morning, if you watch any of the show. we also have been talking to david ignacious and other people about the intel community and the investigation. short of adopting this 95-5 rule. if russia and trump collusion, that investigation is 95% of the story. then perhaps improper masking, leak, 5% of the story. we are critical of tray gowdy

when other republicans tried to make that all about leaks, but do you agree american versus a right to know the truth about the possible trump-russia collusion as well as whether the names of trump administration officials were improperly unmasked and then leaked. can congress and the press do two things at once while keeping proper perspective on what the bigger story is? >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. we really need to there have been as you know, joe, you probably have raised this in the past, concerns among civil libertarians about a whole range of under surveillance practices and procedures, including whether minimization is being done correctly or whether there is, you know, back door under surveillance going on, where foreign parties have the real intent of figuring out who they are talking to back in the united states. those are things that we

constantly oversee on the intelligence committee. it's a very important part of our responsibility. we want to make sure our actions are getting the information to protect the company also protecting our civil liberties and our privacy. so, yes, we absolutely should an, in fact, that's what we were doing. the chairman said he was concerned about. that i said, great, let's request the information the agencies have and we did. where we got off track was when the white house tried to spoon feed the committee surreptitiously, a subset of that information. you are absolutely right. if that issue and the leak issue are things they should look at in the course of business. >> so this is one of the things that concerns me, i am glad to hear this from you, it seems to be a zero sum game for some people in politics and also in the media, that you must either investigate russia and trump and possible collusion there or you must investigate susan rice and

improper unmasking and improper leaking and, of course, i'm not putting that on susan rice. i'm hoping, though, that you all will aggressively investigate both. because as republicans, some good republicans have rightly said what russia did to republican -- the democrats in 2016, they can do to republicans in 2020. the same is true about unmasking and leaking if that actually occurred, right? >> that's actually true. indeed when the chairman and i hammered out weeks ago what the scope of our investigation would be, it was very important to gop members we look at leaks. democrats are concerned about that, too. it's been a omni present problem for administrations of both parties, we did include that in the scope of our investigation. >> that is a part of our mutual agreement. >> that is something we can look at. i do think it is an effort of misdirection for the president to say, don't look at the russia stuff. that's a fake story.

>> right. >> these are the only issues that matter. i take strong issue with that. >> we take strong issue and it's extremely important to under line no matter what cams out about unmasking, no matter what comes out about masking, donald trump's tweets about wiretapping trump towers was a lie, is a lie, will always be a lie. >> from the president of the united states. congressman adam schiff, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> still ahead, the foreign affairs committee on the president's options in syria. the military veteran adam kinzenger joins us next.

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>> so yesterday we laid out the limited options in syria from a full scale grounds invasion to establishing a no-fly zone. our next guest said there was no future for that country with president assad still in power. so how does the u.s. make that happen? joining us from capitol hill, deputy republican whip, adam kinzinger from illinois. >> thank you. >> i say this, i just honestly want to know what your gut is on the president's potential to have a well thought out policy on syria? given that he has limited credibility on some of the things they said about the former president and other people, even susan rice, recently, it's, i mean it in all honesty, where do we move forward here? how do we have hope there could be something put forward on this crisis that is credible?

>> well, look. i saw the president's press conference yesterday. i was very impressed by it. i saw a man that really said, look, i thought a week ago i felt differently than assad. i saw the images. he said i bear responsibility from the buck stops with me here forward. there are not a lot of options in syria. every day that goes by, those options become less. at least in the short term, we have never held as a frankly much less as a country. chemical weapons have no place on the battlefield since world war i with the exception of this conflict. so i think it's important to have strikes against the regime and basically say, look the cost of using chemical weapons the cost of suffocating children to death with a wmd is going to exceed any what if. >> michael duffy, what are the possibilities and what are the

dangers given what you know about trump's uses. >> i think inevitable the president will launch some type of military strike, probably cruz missiles in the next seven to ten days, he is duty bound as a standard. >> as if we don't fight enough wars. >> congressman, beyond that, what other steps would you recommend that as you said make it clear this is unacceptable? it sounds like you are expecting a second wave, what do you mean by that? >> i think the bare minimum is a first way to make it clear the bare minimum we can do is say don't use chemical weapons, there is no place for that in your world. on the second, if i had my druthers and i can make a decision here, our allies in the middle east are clear they have been interested in doing the work on the ground, they have to accept there can be no assad in syria. keep in mind, assad is creating this brutal environment i think

it will make it easier for isis to recruit. if you are a ten-year-old kid, your dad was killed by somebody. you see isis as the only kind of opponent to bashar al-assad and brutalized their family and you don't have an education or opportunity, so i would like to see long-term humanitarian safe zones, a no-fly zone enforced by the united states and its allies and ultimately there will need to be a ground force, it does not need to be american troops. i think the middle east partners have said they are willing to do it. >> are you recommending some options that are pretty ro bust use of military force, do you think this is something that president trump can do unilaterally or -- >>. >> yes okay. a what kweend of alliance should he seek out, how should he go about doing it? also, should there be congressional approval of this military action that you are recommending? >> so i really put a lot of foreign policy power in the

executive branch. i think he and president obama in 2013 could have as well. i think he can make the decision without coming to congress. we have the power to declare war. he has the power for initial strikes like that as commander-in-chief. i think he can put a coalition together. something the you united states can uniquely do. let me say this, too, i think we can come to a negotiated solution in syria. assad has to know the alternative to him stepping away from power, finding sanctuary from someone like russia, they seem to love him. the alternative is, he may die. you do that by up flicting strikes against the regime, having a stick behind the carrot and the carrot is saying, now we can pursue a diplomatic solution n. lew of that, we will continue to strike. >> congressman, can i quickly follow up? you mentioned russia, how do you propose decon flicting them oak. this can pull us into war with russia in the kind of strikes you are recommending, where you know we could kill russian

soldiers? >> well the russians, what i'm advocate in the early stages is destroying air fields, so a defacto fly zone, taking down missile defense and hitting command and control modes in damascus, effectively decapitateing assad from his field of forces so he can't communicate with them and everyone else, if there are russians in those areas, frankly, that is on them. what's amazing to me, since the russian versus come into syria, with i they never should have we have used this as a reason for inaction. we collectively we heard it out here. look, the russians made a decision to back a guy that used chemical weapons, if i was the rugs, i would get out of there you have the eye of the world coming down on you, it might be the wrong thing to do. >> congressman, we are not the russians as you know and throughout his campaign, president trump has been saying why not let russia do the work for us? why not let russia hand him

syria? so russia in some way, shape or form is going to have to be involved in whatever the president decides to do regarding syria. so how do you think he goes about that? do you think he picks up the phone and calls vladimir putin? what do they negotiate? and what does vladimir putin have as to gain out of it? >> i think the calculus changed three days ago. i have been correct, al of the president, obviously. but i looked at his press conference, i saw in him to say i thought differently of assad differently a week ago is admitting something bad happened. if there will be a line opened to the russian ambassador to say, look, we are going to do something, you might want to make sure your people aren't around and get out of syria, because you are enabling a guy that chokes children to death with gas. that's fine. there may be other areas in the world we can work with the russians, whether in china or wherever else. we can't allow them to take europe and they back people that use chemical weapons. it's suspect we haven't seen

since world war i. we cannot get numb to what the future looks like. >> congressman adam kinzinger, thank you very much. >> any time. still ahead, did presidential adviser steve ban none threaten to quit after being removed from the national security council? we'll have the latest reporting on that, plus nbc's halle jackson is live from palm beach as the president pre pa irs to host the president of china. "morning joe" is coming right back. i realize that ah,

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another humiliation came when president obama drew a red line in syria and the whole world knew it meant absolutely nothing. the obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis a long time ago when he said the red line in the sand. >> north korea, like so many other things, is one more hillary clinton failure/barack obama failure. >> i inherited a mess. whether it's the middle east. whether it's north korea, whether it's so many other things. >> and with that, the world still waits to hear president trump's plans to deal with two major crises raging right now as he prepares for perhaps the most important meeting today with the president of china. what did you think of the

president's statements from the rose garden? >> well, i think, yesterday was sort -- we had talked about the president's unfortunate statement coming out of the white house backing barack obama. yesterday he righted himself. he said what he ned to say, saying it's my problem now, it's on my shoulders, i think he we heard the criticism attacking obama and how tone deaf it was at times and i will say also there are a lot of people, not only across the world, but a lot of people in america who i'm sure were heartened by the fact that this president wasn't going to say what every politician has said for the past five years. well, there has been a genocide in syria, that is, oh, it's too hard for us, it's too hard. that's really, we're sad and it's a shame and we can't help them over there, we can't help them over here, we can't do anything. i think the president said that his mind was changed and he was going to seek action.

it can only lead us to hope that he will work with other arab countries and he will work with our european allies and physical out some way to bring relief to the certain people. because we of the west have ignored them for too long. >> and in moments, we go way deeper on that, it's thursday, april 6th, with us on set, senior analyst on set mark halperin, the author of the book "a world in disaway, american foreign policy and the old order" richard haase, contributor to "time" magazine and former aide to the george w. bush white house and state departments alease jordan. deputy managing editor of "time" magazine dwight duffy and jennifer jacobs who broke the news about steve bannon losing his seat on the national security council. and that is where we gin this morning. after ten weeks, senior counsellor to the president,

steven bannon has been removed from the national security council. an alert issued on tuesday, the joint chiefs chairman and intelligence director and out of the energy secretary and cia director and putting homeland security council under the national security adviser h.r. mcmaster's control a. senior white house official said bannon had only attended one meeting of the principles committee and was no longer needed to serve as a check on former national security adviser michael flynn. in a statement, bannon said, former national security adviser susan rice quote operationalized the nsc during the last administration. i was put on to ensure that it was de-operationalized. general mcmaster has returned to nsc to its proper function. last night vice president mike pence said the changes were nothing out of the ordinary.

>> i think the president's action adding the chairman of the joint chiefs, adding the director of national intelligence and moving a couple of our senior personnel off the national security council just simply represents a very routine evolution of the national security team around the president. >> so it's not a demotion for steve bannon? >> not for steve, not for tom. they're highly valued members of this administration. >> and joe, the "new york times" reports several associates of the president quietly expressed annoyance bannon received for setting the agenda, trump was not pleased by quote president bannon the puppet master theme promoted by magazines, late night talk shows and twitter. bannon was conspicuously absent from yesterday's news conference, having attended all others during the trump administration a. source tells

nbc news, bannon only does the foreign leader things that are vital and that he can heck is vital yesterday. the "new york times" reports that bannon resisted the move and is threatening the quit. joe. >> well the "time's" excerpt we put out there is he didn't like bannon mentioned all the time, we hear that externally but internally, but there is actually more to this story that donald trump sees putting it at 34, 39%. and he understands that steve bannon's view of how to run a white house and especially the executive order moving forward and fighting members of congress instead of working with them, he has grown to understand, according to all the sources i have been talking to that a lot of that chaos comes from bannon and bannon, himself, has been extraordinarily frustrated

inside the white house at one point saying, hey, if my tam exhibits aren't needed here, i can take them somewhere else. so bannon has been frustrated and angry, another person very close to him says he tells many ethat he's been exhausted by all the incoming that he's taken and doesn't feel like he got properly defended. and so he threatened to quit. but he didn't quit and the trump team didn't fire him. mark halperin, they did something much worse than firing steve bannon. they put him in charge of health care. the house recessses today. it's a classic move. this is a part of a death spiral we have been watching, he has been attacking jared kushner for some time. >> that never ends well. this is one step closer to running a super pac for the mercers on the outside of the

white house instead of dealing with all of this nonsense he deals with every day on the inside of the white house. >> well, there is no doubt, joe, what people are talking about on the domestic policy side, on the personnel side, there is a shakedown the current policy priorities are not going to be what they are now or not what they are, indeed, in maybe a few weeks. on the other hand, this is still a big foreign policy week. i think you see the president on syria, north korea, on china here today on the reorganization of the nsc, he's recognizing as much as he wants to unorthodox the world the country sees the president as the indispensable person in dealing with these issues. i think you see him act more like a normal president on these issues, particularly yesterday in the rose garden. >> well that certainly, richard haase, yesterday, looked like general mcmasters national security advice to the president of the united states walking out in the rose garden instead of

steve bannon, of course, we can never judge donald trump by one thing that he does, because he'll do something later in the day deeply offensive, but as far as sending a signal to the world, how important is it that we have a national security council that has neither michael flynn for steve bannon on but instead has general mcmaster and powell as the number two. >> yesterday was a day, you can choose your president, the one thing you can't choose is your inbox. i think this week shows the inbox is as daunting as it gets. you end it with the summit the egyptian president the jordanian king, syrian chemical weapons used. the north koreans chemical weapons tests. you have a lot coming at you. if somebody like steve bannon wants to take his powers elsewhere, i think that's probably a good step.

these guys have as much on their plate at once as any contemporary president has had. they have to get their ducks in a row. this is one step. have you an unstaffed state department and defense department. you don't have anything like a functioning national security council with deputies committees and all that. so this is a step in the right direction. we're now in month three. i think we got to be straight about it and say this administration, it's traveled this week, now still has considerable ways to go. up with of these crises will mature, we are getting close with both north korea and syria. >> still ahead on ""morning joe,"" who is running foreign policy? rex tim wereson in the president's son-in-law? we will talk with former ambassador and rich stengel and who is in charge, first, we

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>> president trump is facing his first major test on foreign policy, and once again, the images are horrifying. nearly 100 people were killed, including two dozen children, following a suspected chemical attack on tuesday in a rebel held area. yesterday the president echoed an initial statement condemning the attack, while continuing to harp on his predecessor. >> yesterday chemical attack, a chemical attack that was so horrific in syria against innocent people, including women, small children, and even a beautiful little babies. their deaths was an affront to

humanity. these heinous actions by the assad regime cannot be tolerated. the united states stands with our allies across the globe to condemn this horrific attack. >> well, i think the obama administration had a great opportunity to solve this crisis a long time ago when he said the red line in the sand, when he didn't cross that line after making the threat, i think that set us back a long ways, not only in syria, but in many other parts of the world. i now have responsibility and i will have that responsibilities e responsibility and carry it very proudly. it crossed a lot of lines for me. when you kill innocent children, innocent babies, babies, little babies, with a chemical gas that is so lethal that people were

shocked to hear what gas it was that crosses many, many lines, beyond a red line, many, many line, i will tell you an attack on children yesterday had a big impact on me, a big impact. i will tell you it's already happened that my attitude towards syria and assad has changed very much. as you know, i'll be meeting with the president of china very soon in florida and that's another responsibility we have and that's called the country of north korea. we have a big problem. we have somebody that is not doing the right thing and that's going to be my responsibility. >> richard haase, a lot to talk about. the president taking the responsibility on his shoulders. he had a -- he said what i think most of us would say about barack obama. i think even a lot of president obama's allies about president obama crossing the red line. so i wasn't as surprised by him

answering a question with that as i was putting it in his initial statement, which was terrible. he said it cannot be tolerated. assad crossed a lot of lines for me. my attitude towards syria and assad has changed. he talked about working with his allie, one of whom he was standing by yesterday, who is becoming a more influential allies, what did you hear yesterday in the president's remarks in the rose garden? >> i thought it was an important statement, joe. i think the president needs to stop talking about barack obama. he has a major opportunity to differentiate himself from barack obama. this is something of a real opportunity for donald trump. it's his way to say, there is a new sheriff in town. when the united states is more prepared to act than it was, so i think in syria actually given what he said yesterday, even if he hadn't said it, i believe there is a need to act there militarily, there is a whole range of options we can talk about what it is we might do to

penalize the government. it says we are more involved there. it says you can't use a weapon of mass destruction with impunity. >> that connects to the north korea issue. when you are a greatpower in th united states, what we do and don't do has tremendous implications how china sees them and what north korea will do. i think again there is an opportunity, i believe also a necessity to the united states to say to anyone that uses a weapons of mass destruction that i will pay a price. it doesn't mean we go to war or switch to regime change, it means we need to find discreet military actions to possibly help the syrian people and that will send a major message of reassurance throughout the middle east and as the president said the world and it makes china understand that it can't continue to allow the north korean situation to drip. so this is a major turning point, because the two big issues in the president's inbox

suddenly come towing two a third, it will make him reassess his view of vladimir putin. the russians are saying this is about the rebels. so it's all coming together here. so i think when the history is potentially written of this administration this week could turn out to be pivotal. >> this could turn out to be pivotal. micah, there is an opportunity not only for this president to differentiate himself, but more importantly, for western democracies and for our arab allies, who i will say, this administration at least sunni arab allies have a closer relationship with the trump administration than the obama administration, some leaders telling us they love donald trump to our surprise, but they do. he's got an opportunity to bring an alliance together and not invade syria, but at least make

sure that the allies' response to this attack is measured, but also focuses perhaps on the syrian air force and perhaps our allies help ground the syrian air force. we, as a country and we as a civilization cannot stand by again and allow another chemical attack to go unanswered again because, quote, it's hard. yes, it is hard. it's even more hard living in a world where tyrants get the green light to use chemical weapons against women and children as assad has done. barack obama gave assad a green light to do that. the west gave assad the green light to do that. the question now is will donald trump continue to give assad the green light or will he work with allies who are willing? at one point i we heard the french were willing to work with barack obama to help ground the

syrian air force. i would guess those offers will be coming in for help if that's what he wants to do. >> coming up on "morning joe," he held some of the highest top secret security clearances anywhere in deposit. former ambassador to russia and member of president obama's national ambassador michael mcfall is our guest. we sit down with senator john mccain "morning joe" will be right back. so tell us your big idea for getting the whole country booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom... let it sink in. shouldn't we say we have the lowest price? nope, badda book. badda boom. have you ever stayed with choice hotels?

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>> coming up on "morning joe" we'll check in with msnbc sarah eisen on wall street and a makeover, steve bannon losing a seat no one really understood why he had in the first place. we will talk with the security council spokesman ned price ahead. first, bill kierans, with a check on the weather. >> well, we made it through yesterday without any fatalities. it was a dangerous day. we did have tornadoes. one hit west in georgia. where we had one report of a half mile wide to a mile wide tornado on the grass. we did see significant damage. again, no fatalities, which was

fantastic. then the delays stacked up. this was airport video from heartsfield in atlanta. people were laying around, all the grounds were ground. it caused a ripple effect to go up and down the east coast. so how are we doing now? we still have a chance of severe weather, tornado watches from 1:00 this afternoon, richmond to raleigh, greenville, i don't expect a lot of tornadoes. as far as the severe threat, about 15 million people. it includes washington, d.c., you pay get a strong thunderstorm from noon until 1:00. in areas of the northeast, the rain is moving to the north. our friends in michigan, sorry, it is snowing in lansing. they could get a couple inches of snow around it. the rain moves in, we have 49 people in the flood watch t. ground is soggy, rivers are running high from the snow melt. we do have great weather in the middle of the country. >> that will continue into the upcoming weekend. the weekend highlight will be in the middle of the nation, cool

in the east. but the east, hold on to this, it will warm up to you as we head into the beginning of next week significantly. i know time's square in new york city, we have windy conditions going on, on and off rain, coming up next on ""morning joe,"" halle jackson will join us live from palm beach, it's a big meeting between president trump and the president of china. stay tuned. you're going to be hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play?

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welcome back to "morning joe" 31 past the hour. we are back. joining frus palm beach florida nbc news to chief white house correspondent halle jackson. congratulations. president trump kicks off his two-day meeting with china's president today. what's on the agaendaagenda? >> reporter: hey, micah, thank you for that. by the way, couldn't be a busier time to be in this role. right. because the president today has a key summit. he has been facing foreign

policy tests all week long, expect that to be the top line coming out of the next couple of days with the chinese president xi jinping. we know the president will push xi to be tower. he did do that financial times interview, that rose garden news conference just yesterday. so that is going to be one of the headlines we are looking at. trade will be of course another major topic. he was out on the campaign trail the last year-and-a-half, trying to talk about renegotiating with chosen, being much tougher with them when it comes to trade, to cut back on that trade deficit. >> that is going to be another big topic here today. as far as the color of it all, listen, climate change, for example the one china policy, all of these things will likely come up. senior administration sources, a couple say there are no scripting talking points you might see for a bilateral, this is supposed to be here down in palm beach, not the white house, kind of a get to know you

meeting. an introductory setup, framework, for president trump, president x. without the talking points, this is of course an unpredictable president. we don't necessarily know what he might decide to bring up or say to xi. the reason it's at mar-a lago, they will be comfortable. it will be all business. it kicks off later this afternoon, not until 4:00 or so, the president will be headed down this way. tomorrow another big day of talks, presumably with the inner circle advisers. >> all right. nbc news, halle jackson, thank you very much. secretary of state rex tillerson and ambassador nikki haley have changed their tone on syria. here they are before this week's capital attack and then after. >> i'm not going to go back into should assad be in or out, been there, done that, in terms of what the u.s. has done. but i will tell you he se a big hindrance in trying to move

forward. and i have to tell you, when you have a leader who will go so far as use chemical weapons on their own people, you have to wonder if that's somebody you could even work with. >> i think the status and longer-term status of president assad will be decided by the syrian people. >> this security council thinks of itself as a defender of peace, security and human rights. we will not deserve that description if we do not rise to action today. >> so there is no doubt in our minds that the syrian regime under the leadership of bashar al-assad is responsible for this horrific attack and we think it's time that the russians think carefully about their continued support of the assad regime. >> joining us now, former under secretary of state richard stengel and director of the

international studies at stanford, university, former u.s. ambassador to russia, michael mcfall, a member of the security council from 2009 to 2012 in the obama administration. joe. >> rich stengel, obviously, the severity of the attack, this severity of the attack showing the victims. the women and children, i wonder if any president, even a president as reluctant to use force as barack obama here in the middle of the term could ignore this attack. does this not call for the united states and the western democracies to do more than just issue comments condemning this heinous act? >> you know, joe, what i would say it's grotesque and heart wrenching as this attack is, no human being can feel no compassion for this. we can't make policy based on

emotion and the fact is donald trump has been railing against the obama policy on syria. it's an incredibly complex situation. i think to react immediately and emotionally to something however offer is not the best way to make policy. i think he needs to see it in a different light. you saw nikki haley talk about it in a human way. the obama situation, we have been reckoning with this for five years, there aren't easy answers, to simply say the president put up a red line and didn't act on it is really insufficient in terms of making policy. >> but as mcfall, in those five years, there have been 5 million people displaced. it's caused a world wide refugee crisis, 500,000 human beings have been slaughtered in syria. we have seen two chemical weapons attack. this is not acting on emotion, this is deciding whether we as

members of the western civilization will allow chemical weapons to be used against citize citizensened do nothing about it. this is not about emotion. this is about precedent and how the we keep allowing this precedent to be set and shown to dictators? >> i agree, i agree. this is a majoresquelation in what he has done. remember the last time this happened on this scale, it was larger in 2013. there was the spectre of military force from our administration. i was ambassador at the time. and as a result of that coercive diplomacy, with ecut a deal with the russians and assad to get rid of the chemical weapons, obviously, mr. assad has violated that. in my view, obviously the russians probably knew about it. they're much closer to this regime than we are.

i think it requires a new strategy. i think what the president said yesterday suggests that he has one. i hope he backs up his rhetoric with action. i do think it demands a new response from the united states and the international community. >> my question is to the ambassador, what do you think russia does now and what incentive do they have when the president says the crosses way beyond a red line? we know that russia has a lot invested in the region, some have criticized president obama for being too cavalier in allowing the russians to come in the way they did. they are there now. what increptive do they have to cooperate with president trump given they have completely different interests there, my concern is, will this turn into a quid pro quo, where russia givers them something. they may be easing up on sanctions for some sort of cooperation. >> well, candidate trump, africa, said some very kind things about president putin. strangely in my view.

he is too current with that despite hiring people around him that have a different view. i hope this moment will be a sobering moment for the president. and that he'll understand that we do have different interests with respect to syria and frankly with a lot of other places. and remember we did a deal with the russians to get rid of capital weapons. the international organization that did that won a nobel peace prize for that. that has been violated as a result of these two days. it demands a different policy, including a different strategy, i believe, with russia. >> aleayse. >> you were talking not letting emotions lead us into quick hasty actions him would you c e categorize innovention on necessary to carry rogue actors

and their use of chemical win ponce? >> well, to ambassador mcfall's point, the fact that the president did not have military action and did that agreement led by the secretary of state to take all of the capital weapons out, had he actually done a military strike, there would be a lot more chemical weapons if syria than has happened subsequently. obviously, assad kept a bunch of weapons there. i think the situation is very delicate there. the thing i would like to see is that this opens up a divide between the u.s. and russia. russia is the backer of assad. assad is a russian flunky. everything that they have done in syria is to back up assad, not to fight isis. and this illusion that trump said we could have a joint war against isis, bashar assad killed far more people, he's a much bigger problem. >> so ambassador mcfalls, this is the moment to, perhaps, draw

a line with putin, isn't it? >> yes, i believe so. secretary tillerson goes there next week. he will, he should meet with president putin. i think given that the administration is new, they should attempt to say to president putin, if you really want a new relationship with us, you have to put pressure on asud. i'm not opt mivenlg about it. but i think they should try it. then i think they need to think about new approaches. i was for military strikes in 2013 and then there were things to lose with respect to to capital weapons deal, with respect to iran. there is not as much to lose today. i think some strike to show that we are taking this seriously might get president assad attention. >> my question, ambassador, going back to the mutual fall guy that both vladimir putin and president trump had initially in response to this chemical attack, was president obama with his comment about the red line,

russia just yesterday said it was that comment that allowed more terrorists to enter the region. is there any validity? a lot of people obviously remain focused on that red line as the moment that president obama really probably made his biggest blunders when it comes to the middle east and syria, in particular? >> well, two things i would say about. that first of all, without coercive diplomacy, without the threat of military intervention, we would have never got the chemical deal that we did. number two, that's a part of history, i'm writing it right now. have me on when my book is done. we can talk about that. president trump is the president today. whatever happened in the past, sorry. he ran for president. when he said he inherited all this mess, well guess what, every president feels that way, it's now his policy, he owns it, he has to do something. he said some very strong things

yesterday to not back up that rhetoric with concrete policies will make him look weak and effectless. >> and, joe, obviously, the other big issues, the president meeting today with the leader of china. >> yeah, listen, let's just face it, whoever the president of the united states is, whether it was barack obama in 2016 or donald trump in 2017, you want russia to put pressure on syria. you want china to put pressure on north korea. but both of those acts, both of those nations, usually yield very few results. why should donald trump be trying to do this weekend with the leader of china? >> you know, joe, it's a big issue and you guys talk about it regularly in the morning. >> that, if we're moving towards under trump a kind of sphere of

influence, policy, on foreign policy, where we give our adversaries the ability to act in their own sphere, that's very different than what president obama has done. that's very different than what we have done since the end of the cold war, where it was a much more multi-polar world, where the u.s. was the sort of hedge mon, we try to maintain a rule of law. i think trump could skate into a very dangerous area there in this kind of transactional diplomacy, which he understands, by saying, you know, you guys have your influence in your area, can you operate in your area, in exchange you do x and y for us. i think that's a dangerous thing. i think when it comes to china the fact that we unilaterally bowed out of tpp. while the chinese are creating this infrastructure bank. they are getting a more than a leg up on us. >> all right. rick, stay with us if you can, ambassador michael mcfall, thank you very, very much. >> thank you for everything. all right. >> time now for business with

sarah eisen. president trump will be meeting with chinese president xi jinping. them us the business angle on that. >> reporter: certainly, investors are watching this carefully. good morning, micah. we are talking about the world's two biggest superpowers. we have been feeling whiplash over the last 24 hours. yesterday we saw the biggest reversal in stocks, a more than 200 point rally evaporated ending in a 40-point loss. headlines out of washington, some concerns over this meeting at mar-a lago later today between president xi and president trump. the outlook for the economy improves, it's a sign we're doing better, wall street loves that easy money, cheap money party and also house speaker paul ryan from throwing cold water on very soon tax reform, saying it's going to take a while.

partially this runup has been on hopes of lower corporate tagss. the business angle you asked on trump and xi's meeting have to do with trade. so we are expecting the president to be more confrontational on the trade relationship. here's a refresher for you. we import a lot more than we export to china. we import more than $500 billion worth of goods, talking machinery, the second biggest category is actually furniture, bedding, apparel is very big. that helps save u.s. consumers a lot of money, because it's made cheaply. we export only $100 billion worth of goods to china. that leads us a nearly $350 billion trade deficit. it hurts our growth. it's what president trump has been focused on. wall street would be very afraid of anything like trade barriers or tariffs if they cannot. and then finally, amazon, fun

story, jeff bezos wants to send tourists to space by 2018. now we know exactly how he is doing it. he told reporters at a conference yesterday, he sells a billion dollars worth of amazon stock every year. it's not a problem for him. he had 70 billion worth of stock which itself has been on fire lately. >> cnbc sarah eisen, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll talk to the national security spokesman under president obama who chose to resign rather than serve in the trump administration. and as we go to break, live pictures from the white house. the president is meeting with wounded warriors this morning. this is an event in cooperation with the wounded warrior project. they will be kick starting the annual soldier road, which is a big ride designed to help service members recovering from the physical and psychological wounds of war. we'll be right back. i realize that ah, that $100k is not exactly a fortune.

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reports this week suggested that rice asked to include the names of trump transition officials and intelligence reports before leaving office, requests that she and other officials have said were lawful. rice firmly denied leaking any information and claimed that the the pace of unmasking requests during the transition period were normal, noting that they required the approval of career intelligence officials and we should add again that that is not against the law. asked what else could be learned, the president said, quote, i think you're going to see a lot. i think you'll see a lot. on whether he thinks other people will get ensnared in this and whether it extends to the previous administration, trump said, i think from the previous administrati administration. >> and when directly asked whether he thinks susan rice might have been committed the crime, the president responded, do i think? yes, i think. trump said he would not provide more information or answer

whether he had intelligence indicating a crime or that others were involved. he doesn't have any -- he hasn't provided any. a spokesperson for ambassador rice stated, i'm not going to dig kneeify the president's ludicrous charge with a comment. joining us from capitol hill special assistant to president obama and former spokesperson for the national security council ned price and here on senior political ana ma maria cox. good to have you on board. i think it's important to point out the difference between unmasking and leaking, very different things. >> right. >> and, you know, i think it's fair to say that the president is trying to conflate things as much as possible and again has lobbed out information with absolutely no credibility trying to, i think, put a shiny object out there. >> so there are two completely different things here and susan rice was right bringing them up and we as reporters, i'm not

talking about myself, but reporters, journalists, editors need to figure out how to sort this out. unmasking, even if the "the wall street journal" calls the unmasking troubling and highly unusual, some civil libertarians may consider the expansive unmasking if, in fact, it is proven to be more expansive, troubling. susan rice says it is not. but even if it is, susan rice and any national security adviser including the current one under donald trump's administration is given just broad authority and needs that broad authority, that there's just not -- that is not going to be where any crime is found. i'm almost dead certain of that, but ned price, obviously the leaking as it would be under the obama administration or the trump administration, if you leak classified information then, yes, of course you are

going to -- you're going to possibly be in legal trouble, but there -- but just like the past, you know, 44 administrations, it's going to be hard to prove it in the 45th administration. >> it certainly can be hard to prove and as i've said before, leaking is a serious crime and in most cases it is a felony and this administration as others have need to continue to try to root out leakers. there's nothing wrong with that. what there is a problem however with trying to as you said equate leaking with unmasking. these are two very separate things. what you heard, what your colleague heard from ambassador rice earlier this week is that she did not or would not unmask requests that any identities be unmasked for political purposes. the other key point, though, is one that we've heard from national security experts of all stripes, republicans and democrats, is that she could not do such a thing. there are a rigorous sets of

checks and balances on any requests for unmasking, checks and balances that were set up by the intel community, requests that must go through individuals in each originating agency. and when president trump was pressed on this yesterday, despite the fact that he had a befy of advisors behind him, neither the president nor the army of minders could come up with one piece of substantiation to backup this baseless claim. >> and anna maria cox, they haven't been able to since the first trump tweet claiming that barack obama tapped the phones at trump towers. but tapping the phones at trump towers and unmasking, even if you assume the worse case scenario for susan rice, and let's say they unmasked more than usual and they spread it across the government more than they did, even that is not what

donald trump claimed now five, six, seven sundays ago which is set his approval ratings in a tail spin. >> none of that is illegal. donald trump is no stranger to accusing people of crimes with no basis from the central park five to hillary clinton. so this is -- in some ways it's horrible but not surprising. what i find interesting about this is his constant, you'll find out more, it is a tune in next week presidency, you know. it's all like sort of paced like a reality show which of course is what he thinks this all is that's why his approval rating is tanking. it's one thing to string people along, it's another thing to play ring around the rosies with your national security council. people want that to be taken seriously. i guess duck, duck goose more than ring around the rowzies. they're playing with national security, they're not taking it

seriously. >> they don't think it's funny. i'm curious about the steve bannon news especially given the position you held. now important is it to be removed from the nsc. >> i think we need to happen what happened yesterday in perspective. the white house issued a piece of paper, it's fourth national security policy directive of this administration. i think the proof of yesterday's move will be in the policy process. if the removal of steve bannon from the principals committee of the national security council results in the empowerment of h.r. mcmaster and the broader national security council that is undeniably a welcome if long overdue step. we need to be cognizant of the possibility that yesterday's memorandum was nothing more than a paper statement and steve bannon, although he no longer has statutory membership, continues to lead this small initial group, a group that has been called the shadow nsc and a

group that has outside impact on our foreign policy in some ways subverting the traditional nsc. this is a group that the white house just recently denied existed but we have photographic evidence that it is in room 169 of the eisenhower building. again, this is -- i hope this is a good move for our foreign policy. i think it could lead in that direction but we need to be careful to not let up our watch on mr. bannon and that group. >> on the final note, it's a hopeful sign, is it not? >> it is a hopeful sign. we all hope that there are adults in the room if mcmasters is the last person left standing, that is positive. i hope an pray that, you know, this is going to turn out to be a good thing. >> ned price and anna maria cox, thank you both.

tomorrow we're taking the show to capitol hill. where senator john mccain will be among our guests. that does it for us this morning. >> thanks, joe. good morning i. i'm stephanie ruehl. we're talking hard choices today. the president signaling a big change in syrian policy. >> that attack on children yesterday had a big impact on me. big impact. >> as he has his most important meeting yet with the chinese president after years of saying things like this -- >> we can't continue to allow china to rape our country -- they think we're a bunch of dummies. >> and a war in the west wing, steve bannon threatening to quit after being taken off as the national security council as the power struggle gets even uglier in the white house. and the count down we are just two hours away from the