hours and for the guests who made this past hour possible, with thanks to chris hayes for anchoring his second shift of the night, chris hayes will take now the next hour of our coverage. >> thank you. it is midnight here on the east coast. we are live with our continuing coverage of the air strikes against syria and the syrian regime launched by president trump a few hours ago. i am chris hayes. at 8:40 p.m. eastern time two u.s. war ships fired 59 tomahawk cruise missiles at a single target in syria. the airfield in homs province where military officials say u.s. believe bashar al assad fired chemical weapons into rebel held territory. target was not the run way but the aircraft, aircraft shelters, fuel supply areas and air defense and radar systems. the strikes were in response, the pentagon says, to tuesday's

horrif horrific chemical weapons attack that killed and injured hundreds of people. u.s. and other nations say syrian government was responsible for the attack. in a statement the pentagon said the u.s. took quote extraordinary measures to avoid civilian casualties adding we are reassessing the results of the strike. initial indications are this strike has severely damaged syrian aircraft and support structure and equipment at shayrat airfield. this is video showing a portion of the missile launch provided to us by the military about one hour ago. the pentagon says the russian government which has provided military support to assad were notified in advance of the strike. that military planners took precautions to minimize risk. pentagon is describing tonight's air strikes as a quote

proportional response designed to deter syrian regime from using chemical weapons again. where he is meeting with chinese premier president trump says strikes were in vital national security interest of the united states. >> there can be no dispute that syria used chemical weapons, violated its obligations under the chemical weapons convention and ignored the urging of the u.n. security council. years of previous attempts at changing assad's behavior have all failed and failed very dramatically. as a result, the refugee crisis continues to deepen and the region continues to destabilize threatening the united states and its allies. tonight i call on all civilized nations to join us in seeking to

end the slaughter and blood shed in syria. and also to end terrorism of all kinds and all types. >> joining me now nbc news pentagon producer. courtney, does the pentagon have an assessment of what has happened as a result of the strikes? >> well, not yet. the initial assessments are that the strikes were successful, that they were able to disable much of the airfield that you mentioned in homs province. it is the airfield where several syrian aircraft took off earlier this week and flew to nearby area and dropped several bombs with nerve agent in them killing hundreds and injuring hundreds of civilians. we know that they did do serious damage to the airfield, to aircraft and infrastructure. they took out some radars.

they took out some air defenses. what we don't know is what comes next. we don't know if the syrians will retaliate. we don't know reaction from the russians who also do use that base. we don't know if there were russian aircraft there at the time. the u.s. military saying they didn't strike any and they don't believe there were any russian casualties. but we don't quite know yet what is the next step. this is the proportional response that we have been hearing about for 24 or 48 hours that may be coming to the weapons attack earlier this week. we do believe that this is the extent of it for now unless there is some follow on step from the syrian regime. >> thanks for that update. joining me now from washington, d.c., nbc news white house correspondent kristin welker.

the president is with the chinese delegation. vice president back in d.c. a little bit of uncertainty about whether we hear from the president and what the unified message of the executive is coming out of tonight. >> that's right. it was a stark contrast because you had the president in florida with the palm trees meeting with the president of china and going into the evening, of course, we thought the focus would be trade and north korea. and that all changed in dealing with this crisis in syria. in terms of the messaging that we are getting from the white house tonight, chris, we are just learning a couple new details. secretary of state rex tillerson briefed reporters and under scored a couple of points, one that the administration does have a high confidence that the assad regime was behind the chemical weapons attack and that they believe that it was chemical weapons. they point to saren gas. they say that clearly this under

scores that despite what happened in 2013 under president obama when they essentially got a deal to remove the chemical weapons in syria, that hasn't happened. secretary of state rex tillerson with very strong words for russia effectively saying that they were either complicit or didn't live up to their responsibilities to make sure that syria got rid of its chemical weapons striking, of course, because this president hasn't typically used strong terms, strong words against russia. so we are seeing a break there. of course, what we have seen not just with this strike in and of itself but in the past several days is a real shift in tone within this administration in terms of its view of president bashar al assad. several days ago rex tillerson said it is up to syrian people to determine what happens to bashar al assad. now that is shifting, as well. the secretary of state essentially saying that the united states believes that

assad must go, believes this must be a political transition that it will work in concert with its international allies to make that happen. so a very different tone that we are hearing from the secretary of state and from the president. but as courtney was pointing out there are so many unknowns in terms of what happens next. will there be any type of retaliation on the part of the syrian government and, of course, as you know as we have been reporting on the situation on the ground in syria is so complicated and so difficult to know who is aligned with whom. of course, russia is there complicating all of that. still a lot of unknowns even as this white house did act decisively tonight to take action in the wake of that horrific chemical attack. >> joining me now retired army general. i want to read you two statements. i think a lot of people have interpreted that the policy goal

in this is to essentially send the message that chemical weapons is a red line and won't be tolerated and there is a question about whether this pivots the posture of american policy more broadly. this is the national security adviser saying i think what this does communicate is a big shift in assad's calculus. this is secretary of state rex tillerson you should not extrapolate the strikes change our policy or posture on syria. is there a contradiction there? >> sure sounds like it. i think he is trying to build a process for national security decisions. it will take another year to put that in place. the huge problem is impulsive decision making, incoherent decision making. i think secretary mattis knows what he is doing, he delivered a

calculated strike and probably did have deterrence value against deployment of chemical weapons. that aircraft group were certified and trained to deliver have been devastated by the strike. at the end of the day it is hard to say that this did anything but political signaling. it didn't change strategic balance of power. it doesn't effect the refugees. it doesn't stop fighting on the ground and it is unlikely to have assad step down or be removed from power. >> and i want to ask about the possibility of escalation in response. there are different foreign fighters. there are russian fighters embedded with the regime there. there is also iranians and maybes of the rogc. we think operating possibly out of that air base. how important in durmz of limiting this if you are going to limit it as this is this

tactical decision made to make sure that you do not end up with casualties that are either iranian or russian? >> you know, i'm always astonished when we use military power and we articulate we are trying to avoid casualties. most of these military actions are designed to break things up and kill people. they are designed to stun your adversaries so he changes his behavior. again, there is a little lack of clarity in what we are doing here. i would hope that what doesn't happen is there is a counter strike now and a bunch of options the syrians have, the iranians have, the hezbollah militia have, the russians have. so we end up with a tirks oor--t for tat escalation. i would hope we go after and destroy the syrian air frs.

that will change the strategic balance on the groupd. >> that would be a marked escalation and would require, one would imagine, possibly congressional authorization. some argue this requires that and also strategic commitment over duration period of time and further meshing in the conflect. >> certainly it is better than telling the syrian air force don't leave your air bases and have us put carrier groups there to maintain 24 hour air cap. my guess is if you tell u.s. air force to take out the syrian air force in a matter of weeks they would do that. they take casualties. the s-300 air defense system on the ground is lethal. this would not be without risk. it would invite a counter move nor would it change the status of millions of refugees in syria. i argue we need significant

humanitarian aid for the syrian refugees in jordan and turkey and iraq. that will make a difference in the short run. >> that's an interesting and important point. this is outside your specific area of expertise. i am curious, there are some who have noted that it is somewhat strange that we are in a situation in which we are bombing, we say in response to this slaughter of civilians who we have seen the videos of and i think anyone feels remarkably empathetic and destroyed. those same children are banned from coming to the u.s. under the travel ban that was signed by the president and is being held up in the courts. do you see a contradiction in that? >> well, there certainly is in u.s. political system. you go back to larger issue are millions of refugees living in misery just inside turkey and

jordan. they need help. that means a billion dollar a week effort by the european union and the u.s. to change the equation. >> a billion dollar a week effort and you think the u.s. should be stepping up in that regard? >> absolutely. at the height of the iraq war we are spending $12 billion a month. at the height of the afghan war it was $10 billion a month. we need to stabilize the millions of refugees external to syria. i don't think we can get into the country and try to stop the fighting with military power but we can make a bigger difference for the ones who fled across the borders. >> i appreciate your time tonight. >> good to be with you. joining me now is syrian-american community organizer and advocate in the syrian-american community here. i want to make sure that we have voices from syrian-americans in the midst of this. your reaction to what has happened?

>> thank you for having me and for amplifying the voices of syrian americans who are at the forefront of the story in many ways. if there is no strategy associated with this limited strike it is really just a slap on the hand, an expensive one and message sent to the assad regime. overall we have to see that for six plus years the assad regime and allies have been slaughtering syrians at scale with or without chemical weapons. so this fixation on chemical weapons and only focussing on the need to ban that is problematic in that they have used all means at their disposal. >> it's interesting that we have had this discussion twice and it had risen to this level and both after chemical weapon attacks. and in both cases there is a reason in that there is this really important international norm against use of chemical weapons. what i have heard from syrian activists is they find the

obsession with that norm baffling. >> the number today is half a million. the number is so large that people have stopped counting. the united nations have stopped counting. most of whom have been killed fought by chemical weapons. you're right. there is international norms and there should be pressure put on the assad regime. at the end of the day they are not just using chemical weapons. what would a useful u.s. policy look like that would -- you feel like have a good chance of improving the situation of syrians? >> great question. i think first and foremost people are talking about today as first time that united states has bombed syria. we have to recognize that the united states has been controlling air space overseeria since september 2014, in essence in order to confront isis with that. >> the u.s. has been bombing

syria for two years and not targeting the regime. >> many people try to position the regime change. iraq was a regime change. this is confronting isis and regime preservation in many ways. we saw it after the last chemical weapons attack where 1,400 people were killed in one night. what the united states did under the obama administration was to sign an agreement and work with the russians for chemical wea n weapons disarmorment. >> what do you say to an american watching that says the following two things, my heart is ripped out at the savagery that i have seen and the horrible suffering in syria and also we don't have a good track record, we have been at war for 16 straight years. we still have troops deployed in afghanistan. we are fighting in six different countries with kinetic activity at this moment. i do not think that we, the u.s., can play a role mill tarl

in syria. >> the u.s. is playing a role in syria right now. there are ground troops whether american population knows it or not in northern syria today. 92% of all civilians killed in syria have been killed by this regime and allieallies. isis is enemy number two. >> if the logic of that is this is now a sort of new chapter in this war because u.s. which has been targeting isis which is one part of the complicated battle space, now it is turning its attention to the regime, do you think that escalating against the regime would be helpful? >> i think sending a clear message to the regime, the russian allies is key to stop the slaughter from above. most are killed by air forces. if a message is sent to ground the planes and sending a message like this today as we have seen to ground air force it is key to

stop the murder. that is what we need to get over the hump and end this war. >> do you think -- in terms of end this war, the end point in the last two years we have seen the assad regime retake ground, aided largely by the russians and iranians. there is a sense, i think, a kind of a little bit of withering sense of the ability of rebels to actually topple the regime. >> this is the orphaned revolution. there is no clear sustainable support for the rebels who have an agenda of freeing syria from the assad regime. assad is no longer a sovereign ruler of a country but is best funded war lord backed up by iranian militias. so we have to move away from the point that assad is a sustainable government. he is a patchwork of militias. he is a symbol of network that are supposedly regime based.

>> your point is that in some fundamental way the regime has fallen. >> that is why in the fall of 2015 the russians intervened. the assad regime was falling apart. the loyal forces to assad were withering and fracturing. that is why the russians came in hard. >> what do you say to people who make the argument that we have seen what happens to regime change whether iraq or libya that it unleashes pandora's box and fall of assad would be all sorts of groups and we would have perpetual war and pandora's box of terrorism? >> i think what we have seen is quite the opposite as rebels have been further marginalized and have not had support that they needed to maintain. we have seen growth of isis, the growth of al qaeda and other groups. in essence what we have seen is counter to that reaction where

the rebels and syrian freedom fighters have been put on defensive because there has been no support and the vacuum filled has been isis and al qaeda and so on. >> ultimately and other people have noted this to me. this is not my observation that fundamentally there is asymmetry that people fighting in syria who are syrians, rebels and then iran and russia are simply have more at stake in the conflict than america ever will, that there is no way to level up american investment in the conflict that will ever be equal to the investment of other proxys. >> if we have learned anything the united states is extreme investment in the middle east. i think before this conflict most people couldn't put syria on the map. syria is the center of everything that happens in the middle east. we have to recognize for good or for bad what that means to not just the region, the powers that be but also internationally all the way here to america and we

have seen it with the refugee catastrophe that is impacting american election policies. >> thank you for your time tonight. i really appreciate it. ahead we are learning more about the surreal scene in palm beach, florida. we are learning that the president was wrapping up his evening with his chinese counter part as missiles started flying. (deep breath) ♪ (phone ringing) they'll call back. no one knows your ford better than ford and ford service. right now, during the big tire event, get a $140 rebate by mail, on four select tires. ♪

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joining me now director of national security program for third way, a public policy think tank. this strikes me as it has been interesting to watch the response to this in a bipartisan fashion. it strikes me as the kind of foreign policy move that is sort of beloved of the permanent foreign policy establishment of d.c. and represents everything in many ways the president ran against. >> i think that is right. you see praise of this president's actions from all kinds of establishment politicians, nancy pelosi, schumer, mccain, graham and a lot of people praising that. one of the things i think is different about the way the president has done this compared to how a real establishment president would do this is the legal case made and the strategic vision that might go along with a strike like this. >> we are getting spotty reports

about who was and was not informed. senator ben cardin said he only found out when missiles were launched. it is unclear whether allies were told. we have off the record quote from u.s. diplomat who did not know. some are noting that russians knew but u.s. diplomats didn't know. in terms of legal rationale it is just not clear to me that it is a clear cut case the president has the authority to do this. >> no. it's not at all. the striking against the regime is not authorized under any previous statutes passed to allow the president to strike terrorists who attacked us on 9/11. we don't have authorization from u.n. security council. it is hard to make a case that chemical weapons strike is a direct threat against united states in a way to claim us claiming self defense. he is on thin legal ice.

a lot of people feel like a response for what syria has done is appropriate. >> and it is striking to me as someone and i want to bring you in in a second. it is striking to me someone who worked on the hill, if i am not mistaken, you were a staff on the senate -- when almost identical situation happened four years ago when the president decided to go to congress for authorization he could not get the votes. you have -- i don't know if we have congressman who back then basically said i don't know what comes after it. i'm not sold on this. i'm a no vote, tonight tweeting god bless the usa, very similar situations. it strikes me what congress wants is they want to be able to issue a statement afterwards saying good job. >> i think that is right for a large number of members. there are a few fairly

consistent then and now that the president needed to come for authorization first, people like tim kane and others who said this is really congress's constitutional responsibility. the president in this case chose not to bother asking congress whereas president obama came first. and then you saw the syrian regime cave in the face of obama's threats and turn over what we thought at the time was its chemical weapons arsenal clearly incomplete. >> i think that is fairly well established. at this point as someone who followed this conflict closely in the region and to the point about the incompleteness of that handover, there has been some speculation by folks that know russia well that putin would be angry at assad, frustrated because this sort of brazenness with which he has used these weapons essentially shows up russia which played this public and celebrated role in stewarding the deal that was supposed to remove these kinds

of weapons from the assad regime. >> no doubt that russia's stock has gone down just by sheer virtue of supporting assad and not just in providing diplomatic cover but by literally having the blood of syrians on russian hands. and in so many ways you have all regional players, iran and militias have had their stock plumt in the arab world. among some who had respect and consider to be part of axis of resistance, all of that has gone down because of the fact that they have been fighting inside syria for the assad regime killing innocent men and women. when it comes to russia in particular russia looks at assad as a liability. russia is approaching the conflict in syria with eyes on one key major national security issue which is to maintain warm water on the mediterranean. they may not necessarily have interest in assad the person but they needed to -- they need to

hold on to that territory for their own strategic interest. iran has its own strategic interest which is to preserve that access. they don't care for assad the person. they care about having syria being in their camp or sphere of influence. and the problem has become that this individual with his actions and what he has done and what many have described as being a war criminal has dragged and sucked these countries into that camp rksz as well. >> it appears kind of point of no return for them, too. this is part of the kind of dilemma of syria at this stage six years into this war. much more to come tonight on president trump's decision to launch a strike on syria. our coverage continues. don't go anywhere. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means

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tonight is not symbolic. i think it has a strategic value to it. the question now is what happens next? is there a comprehensive plan that follows this up? that is perhaps the most critical question. what i hope is going to happen which is conditions, i don't think syria will be stable government at any time in the future. i think we can begin to take steps to provide alternatives. >> the rubio sound is interesting because rubio was notably one of those folks who voted against in committee against a strike in 2013.

that never got to the floor but it did go to committee and he was a no vote there. a yes vote tonight. every yes that i have heard says yes but what's next? and the what's next to me remains as unclear as it was 12 hours ago. >> that's correct. it is unclear from 12 hours ago. it is unclear from three years ago. i don't know that anyone has a really good sense of the end game in syria and how u.s. intervention is going to actually lead to stability in that country. >> there is a variety of statements here. i want to ask you something. someone whose opinion i respect specifically on syria. he just wrote that the fight against isis got harder. his point is this, obviously. exactly what you said, the u.s. has been bombing inside syria for two years and has been able to do that amidst dense air

defenses. the reason it has avoided those air defenses is precisely because it has posed no threat to the regime. the regime has air defenses. the u.s. can fly in aircraft to attack isis and get out without playing spoiler. the fight against isis will suffer. >> i disagree with that approach. it doesn't match up with actions on the ground. there have been multiple occasions when the united states air force has threatened syrian or russian air force when they felt their interests on the ground were threatened. or even syrian kurdish forces which are proxys to the united states, whenever those have been hit by the assad regime we have seen u.s. jets scramble. >> and to add to that quickly, i know we talk a lot about syrian air defense capabilities, there

have been several reports that israel has carried out numerous air strikes inside syria. syrian air defenses have never shot down an israeli fighter jet and never tried to retaliate against israel sfwlmpt can we should note that the israeli government came out with a statement early praising the actions today. and the comments, the level of granularity, the number of different parties, the lattice work of alliances, the kurds who we have had american forces embedded with, the level of complexity just sometimes makes me feel like guns of august, world war i style trip wire. >> it is complicated changing alliances. u.s. has tried to identify people that we can work with. sometimes they work with us.

sometimes they oppose other people that we have been trying to work with. it is very difficult but it goes to the incoherence. when you look at the trump administration and this strike you think about concerns about refugees at the same time they are trying to do something to protect refugees and barring them from entering the country and coming back on funding that would help refugees around the world. it is really a very incoherent policy. >> rubio said something and i am hearing more and more, i can't see assad being more of unified government. you are hearing people talk about some sort of religious or ethnic divisions. or an alternative to assad or assad being brought to bear. is that realistic? >> at the end of the day he will leave. he goes counter to the syrian population. we have to remember that the refugees who have fled syria have fled mostly because of the

assad regime. 8 million people inside syria who are displaced have fled because of the assad regime. the majority of the population is opposed to assad staying in the long term. what does that look like? first we have to assure that the assad family leaves power. syrians together can reconcile and figure out how to have a unified government. it will take time. the longer we drag this out with the regime in play the longer it will take to solve for it. >> thank you all. coming up, as lawmakers weigh in, many who opposed strikes by president obama are cheering president trump tonight. more on that next. stay with us. look closely.

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tonight i ordered a targeted military strike on the air field in syria from where the chemical attack was launched. it is in this vital national security interest of the united states to prevent and deter the spread and use of deadly chemical weapons. >> and joining me now director of new internationalism project, author of "understanding isis." brian darling, former senior communications director for senator rand paul and malcolm

nance. author of "the plot to hack america." . i want to start with you because a man that used to work for rand paul has a statement basically saying that this should be voted on by congress. mike lee has basically said as has barbara lee in the house. a bunch of other individuals. i am seeing a lot of people who are in the kind of conservative right, folks that were fans of ron paul, folks that align themselves with the trump campaign when he talked about not getting involved in middle eastern wars when he wame out strongly against syrian intervention now feeling like they have been betrayed. what is your take on this? >> i feel like i have in a sense. i am somebody who voted for donald trump for president. i was voting for a guy who i thought had adopted in the campaign trail a foreign policy similar to rand paul's.

less intervention foreign policy. he spoke out against nation building and president obama's attempt to intervene in syria back in 2013. this is somebody who talked against an intervention foreign policy but appears what the american people may have is they may have gotten marco rubio and lindsey graham's foreign policy. but the ultimate question will be is this a one off? is this something where president trump has done this military strike and that will be the end of it? or should we expect more? you know the folks on the left who i think have i have seen in opposition to this, one of the points that the syrian americans that i used to talk to and activists i interact with make the point that america has been intervening. the idea that tonight is the first time america bombed in

syria is not true. we have been bombing isis in syria for two years. syrians will say this finally bombing the assad regime. >> right. this is an ongoing reality for the u.s. that we are bombing in syria. we are also bombing in half a dozen other countries. we are bombing in iraq and somalia and a number of places. i think this does represent a major escalation and a very dangerous one. this is a direct attack on the syrian state where there are russian troops involved. this is a major escalation in what has been a largely cold war with russia. it threatens to escalate that, as well. this is a situation where we just heard about expectations that the trump administration was going to be more isolationist. the reality is that the isolationism does not include the military. this is a regime that has made clear now that it is as interventionist as any before it. it is isolationist when it comes to things like diplomacy and

negotiations and not the military. >> we should note that there have been, they have pushed to loosen rules of engagement. there have been about five times as many drone strikes per day in terms of rate as there were. there has been escalation. the point was made about the russians. part of what i think has everyone so tense and the possibility for escalation is the presence of iranians and russians and the idea of that kind of guns of august feel that trip wire. there are all of these reports that we told the russians through the confliction channels we have been using to manage the war against -- is that standard protoc protocol? >> it is standard protocol now since we have this cooperative effort going on with the russians throughout northern syria. however, that being said, we have not been deconflicting with the government of iran or the

iranian revolutionary guard forces. the oassad regime or hezbollah. so we have one component by facilitating the russian component of this, president trump has made very clear that he thinks russia is the solution to the problem but he decided to flex his muscles. this facilitates. this will facilitate the iranian's believe that they have to get even more involved in order to stop the united states from carrying out its policies and, of course, completing the arc from southern lebanon by supporting the assad regime and defeating the rebels and isis. >> most of congress has been heading home. we have a bunch of congressional statements. i want to talk about the domestic politics. to me it seems to matter where

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i will pose u.s. military action in syria. what do you account for that? >> hypocrisy? we have seen it with democrats, too. president obama when sworn into office before he said you have to go to congress. you have to have an imminent threat before you go to war. president obama promised to end the war in afghanistan, end the war in iraq. it's not unique to republicans to have hypocrisy. when you look back to 2013 donald trump was tweeting that congress had to speak before president obama was allowed to go to war. now he has changed his position and has done it without congressional authorization. all rand paul and congressman from michigan, all they are

asking for is for congress to debate this. that is what the constitution says. congress is the body that makes a decision to go to war and the president actually implements the war. that hasn't happened yet. >> what was striking in 2013 to me about when the president decided to go to congress was that the congressional representatives i think were probably reading about public opinion appetite for further involvement in syria at the time. that meant that it didn't happen. what is your read of whether those winds have changed now? i'm not sure they have. >> i'm not sure they have, either. it is a very important consideration because what was happening was not just reading the polls. there was a massive upheaval in this country over a six-week period. what happened was that the calls were running in some congressional offices they told us 800 to 1 against a military strike. they also had to recognize what

the british parliament having said they would not participate. that was huge. i do want to point out one other point, though. whatever the decision of congress, if congress were to be consulted, if they were to give permission, this would still be a violation of international law. the united nations charter which remains the law of the land previews superior parts of our law of our legal system says very clearly that a country cannot go to war legally except for two very narrowly defined circumstances neither of which have been met. one, if the security council decides, the other if there is an immediate issue of self defense which is not the case here. this is clearly a violation and i think what we are looking at is another indication where we are seeing these failed policies once again where we have been at war with terrorism for 15, 16 years. terrorism is doing just fine. this doesn't work. >> malcolm, you are now on both sides of the conflict at least.

that strikes me as what is so strange about this night, about this turn of events is we have been bombing the people fighting assad for two years and we are now bombing assad and now we are on both sides of the conflict. >> this is what you said very much earlier about there being this incredible fluid dynamic within a civil war battle space. and that requires you to at least recognize the fact that there is a civil war. i'm not quite sure based on some things that the trump administration has said that they are quite aware of what that means. >> we have to take a break. there is a lot more to cover on a night when president trump who twice took action to ban syrian refugees to enter the united states ordered military attack after reportedly gassed its own penal. our live coverage continues next. for lower back pain sufferers,

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