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add a paragraph to my bill that says russia aided and abetted assad in using chemical weapons, because he did. the russian soldiers on the base where this attack occurred, the russians intentionally, in my view, left chemical weapons in the hand of assad, their proxy. >> but secretary of state rex tillerson says he's not jumping to any conclusions ahead of his visit to moscow. >> that will be part of the discussions when i visit moscow next week, is to call upon foreign minister lavrov and the russian government to fulfill the obligation it made to the international community when it agreed to be the guarantor of the elimination of chemical weapons, and why russia has not been able to achieve that is unclear to me. i don't draw conclusions of complicity at all, but clearly they've been incompetent. >> congress is also aiming today. karen bass pushing back on her colleague adam schiff for saying

there's a strong moral case to be made for president trump's action. here's what congresswoman bass told me in the last hour. >> i have a hard time with that, because what was bombed? i mean, we bombed an airport and 24, 48 hours later, that same airport was back bombing the same area that was victim to the chemical weapons. so i don't understand what the point. i understand sending a message, but what does that mean a day later? to me, i think it has the potential to embolden everybody, to embolde the syrians, to embolden the russians, and then to embolden the north koreans. >> also today, nikki haley on the scrutiny president trump is getting for past comments about the u.s. involvement in syria. >> he wasn't president in 2013. >> he opposed it. he opposed action. >> but i don't know what his thought process was then. i can tell you what his thought process was this week, which was he is not going to condone

chemical weapons use ever. >> should the trump administration lay out the evidence, come to congress, and get the specific authorization to use force? >> well, it depends on the action, but i can tell you he worked very closely with the leaders in congress, all of the cabinet members. he is very much said he wanted to keep congress informed and a part of what was happening as it was happening. but you have to ask him on the congressional thoughts. i haven't had that conversation. >> and on top of all that, happening now, the u.s. aircraft carrier carl vinson and its strike group ordered to the western pacific in response to recent provocations by north korea. an official with the defense department says the ships will provide a show of presence in the region. meanwhile, new questions about what happens next in syria. hallie jackson is joining us from palm beach, florida, not far from president trump's mar-a-lago estate. what are you hearing from members of congress today? >> listen, sunday shows have been unsurprisingly dominated by

discussion about the syrian strike, and specifically about where to go fromhere. you have seen russians push back and that pne call over the last 24 hours between secretary of state tillerson, foreign minister lavrov, in which the foreign minister questioned who was really responsible for the attacks. that is far less of a question here in the united states, as you heard congressman adam schiff talk about today. listen. >> absolutely they are co complicit. russian intelligence may not be as good as ours, but it's good enough to know the syrians had chemical weapons, were using chemical weapons, and indeed if the russians had a presence on that airfield and even if they didn't, they are smart enough to know exactly what's going on. they are better positioned to know in the sense they have people on the ground in close proximity working in close concert with the regime. i think absolutely they know what the syrians are doing. >> the weekend has been dominated by the aftermath of the military action that president trump took. specifically about questions about where he goes from here

regarding long-term strategy on his syrian strike, and even though, alex, he is at mar-a-lago in palm beach, he has been, we believe, playing some golf, visited his golf club, also on the phone with world leaders. for example, we're getting word he spoke with the japanese prime minister about this strike and the white house says both leaders agree bashar al assad's use of chemical weapons warranted a strong response from the international community. so foreign affairs taking center stage. i am being told by an administration official that the deputy national security adviser is in the works of being reassigned essentially to an ambassadorship in singapore. what's the tea leaf reading, alex, well, this is a sign h.r. mcmaster, who's been remarkably visible over the last five days or so, is working to put his leadership stamp on that agency. mcfarland was somebody who came under former national security adviser mike flynn, now getting

sidelined. alex? >> okay. that is a new nugget there, thank you for that. let's also talk about secretary of state rex tillerson. as you know he heads to russia this week, makes him the first member of the trump cabinet to do so. what do we expect out of this? especially in the wake of this week's events. >> if you asked me a week ago, i think we would have had a different answer for you. no matter what, this was going to be a major trip for the secretary of state. we know he's wheels up for italy, expected to land there later on today and continue on with that overseas trip and head to moscow to meet with sergey lavrov. i will say, no matter what this was going to be interesting, given the constant discussion about russia's interference in the 2016 election, how the trump administration responded to that. now with the syrian strike and with what has been a shift in posture towards russia, tougher talk toward russia, you are hearing that from nikki haley, from rex tillerson. there's going to be a lot of questions about what that relationship is going to look like and how aggressive the

secretary of state is going to be when confronting the russians about what the. calls its role, esntially, or assigning blame for the chemical weapons attack in syria last week to bashar al assad, something the russians have been resistant to do. so no matter what it would have been an intense spotlight. that spotlight is intensifying even more so since thursday night. alex? >> thanks, halle. joining me now, retired four star navy admiral, the former nato supreme ally commander, now the dean of the fletcher school of law and diplomacy at tuft university. also co-author of "the leader's book shelf." awfully glad to have you here. i want reaction from the air strikes in russia. first of all, as you know, vladimir putin and rouhani who have spoken about the strikes and agree they are unacceptable. are you concerned, sir, a military realignment could be in

the works here? >> i think it's already happened, alex. we have seen russia, which was with us on creating sanctions against iran to prevent them from getting a nuclear weapon steadily moving toward iran over the last two to three years. why? because pragmatically they want support. they, russia, want support for assad, who is their client and, frankly, their creature. so there's a confluence of interest between the two. that's dangerous, not only for the long-term future of syria, but for our allies a friends in the region, israel, the gulf states, saudi arabia. so i don't like this tehran, moscow access. unfortunately, you're going to see more along it. >> admiral, how about the widespread praise from other world leaders, as well as u.s. politicians, from the president with his decision to launch the air strikes? is there anything about that that makes you uncomfortable? >> not at all. the president in this case has made a very good decision. i would argue his actions are

legal under international norms and behavior, and it's gratifying to see all the nato allies line up, to see our asian allies like japan line up, and, in fact, to see our arab allies or sunni-arab allies in the region. this is an example of a real coalition building against this moscow, tehran, damascus access. >> the president notified congress of the air strikes yesterday, i acted in the vital national security and foreign policy interests of the united states. do you agree, sir, and for those that are questioning this, was it vital for national security and foreign policy interests, particularly because we have several hundred u.s. soldiers there stationed in syria, and they could get the blowback from this. >> actually, i would kind of spin it the other way, alex, if i could and tell you that i think one very good tactical argunt is self-defense. we don't want russia and syria

using chemical weapons in and around our soldiers who are in syria conducting credible missions against the islamic state, but i think the larger strategic rationale here is, in fact, violations of international law and also the idea of the responsibility to protect doctrine under international law. i think the president and the administration are on firm footing here. what i would like to see is the congress get engaged and do their job under the constitution, as senator tim kaine and others have argued for, to provide an authorization for the use of military force. it's in everybody's interest to go after bashar al assad. we made the right call doing this, we are legal under international norms. >> other hot spot here, max baucus said here this morning the air strikes are raising pressure on china to rein in north korea. let's look at what he said. >> as kim jong-un develops his missile and his nuclear capability to greater and greater degree, the clock's ticking. we're getting closer to the

moment of truth here. so i think the strike force going to the area really has more pressure, greater signal on china. you, china, better get with the program here and help us out. >> do you agree, sir, we're getting closer to the moment of truth here? >> we definitely are. the way i think about it, alex, kind of two streams. one is the nuclear weapon technology miniaturizing it. the other stream is the ballistic missiles. it's like in ghost busters, you don't want those streams to cross. they are going to cross in the next 18 to 24 months. so, yes, that moment of truth is coming. moving a carrier strike group is a classic and correct move, because it gives the president more options. those carriers can travel a thousand miles a day. they can bring real fire power to bear. it's a signal not only to north korea, but also to china. i think the senator is correct. i think we're making the right movers opening up more options for dealing with flooe yachlt.

>> but you talk about the movement of the u.s.s. carl vinson and that strike group. you have that movement, also the strike in syria. seems there's a lot of saber rattling going on right now. what are the dangers of that? >> i think here we need to examine the fact that it's not an on and off switch of just hard power saber rattling or soft power diplomacy talk, et cetera. think of it as a rees tat. there are times you need the hard power instrument, but there are other times when you want to include the diplomacy, the economic sanctions. so we're going to have to see if the administration, which has shown us the military instrument over the last few days, is equally adept at the diplomatic and the economic. watch secretary tillerson's trip to moscow for an indicator how well they can balance those two things. >> i want to get to your new book, it has a terrific title "the leader's bookshelf."

as you consider president trump's strikes in syria, what do you think he should put on his reading list? >> i'll give you two. one is a classic work from world war ii, which is winston churchill's memoir called "the second world war," because it talks about how to build a coalition to achieve grand aims. and the second book from the list of 50 books that i would recommend for him is called "team of rivals," it's a marvelous book about a president, in this case lincoln, who had that ability to reach across the aisle, to reach out to others to find ways to build internal political coalitions to achieve unity of purpose for the nation. so both an external book and an internal book i put on the president's reading list. >> i would suggest president obama would certainly echo your sentiments on that last one. we all remember he was reading that othe campaign trail during the first go around. admiral, wonderful to have you

on the broadcast. best of luck with the book. we'll talk with you again. >> thanks, alex, and happy birthday to you. you can only turn 29 once. >> okay, i officially love you. thank you very much. we're going to go back to our breaking news. in egypt deadly twin bombings, islamic state group is taking credit for that. the first explosion happening north of cairo, killing at least 27 people. that church was packed with palm sunday worshipers. it happened during a televised service. ♪ ♪ all right. we're following this very disturbing and hard breaking story from london. welcome to you. talk about what we know about the attack, as well as the second one and the reaction from the egyptian government. what are we hearing there them? >> alex, we're learning the egyptian president has ordered military troops deployed across the country to help the police secure various facilities there. whether that's going to be

effective in preventing more attacks like what we saw today remains to be seen. remember the location of the second attack, st. mark's church in egypt's second largest city was protected by security services. there were checkpoints set up, metal detectors, but that did not prevent a suicide bomber from detonating his device in the middle of the crowd of worshipers, killing at least 16 people, wounding 41. several people in critical condition as we speak, so the death toll could, unfortunately, rise. now that was a second attack. the earlier attack took place some 50 miles north of cairo. it was right in the middle of palm sunday mass at 9:30 a.m. local time when that explosion ripped through the crowd, killing at least 27, injuring 78. gruesome social media footage of the aftermath showing blood-stained pews, people screaming. authorities believe an explosive device was planted inside the church. what we do know, alex, is isis

has claimed responsibility for both attacks. what was supposed to be a day of celebration now has egypt's christian community in mourning. alex? >> and how strong is isis there? what is their presence like there, their footprint in egypt? >> isis may be losing ground in places like iraq and syria, but it's had increasing success in egypt. the group's affiliate there is small, but one of the most effective ones given its small fighting force, but large number of causalities that is able to inflict. christians in egypt have been targeted by various islam is groups when isis, this isis affiliate that we're talking about joined the fray, driving out many from their homes, especially in the sinai peninsula, staging attacks like the ones we saw today, and all of this coming just a few weeks ahead of the pope's planned visit to egypt, which is still expected to take place at the end of this month. alex? >> nbc's lucy kafanov with the latest from london.

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i think that the strategy he seems to be outlining is based on assumptions that aren't going to work. there is no such thing as assad yes, but isis no. this focus that you can defeat isis as long as assad is there is not true. they are two sides of the same coin. as long as bashar al assad is in power in syria, you will have a reason for people to be radicalized. this idea you can defeat isis and then we'll figure it out with assad, it's not going to work. >> that is marco rubio airing his concerns this morning over the trump administration's proposed strategy on syria. let's bring in francis rooney,

republican of florida and member of the foreign affairs committee. congressman, welcome to you, sir. how do you respond to your colleague, senator marco rubio there? do you think the president needs to make a more aggressive effort to get assad out of power? >> well, i don't think anybody's saying that assad shouldn't go, that assad's not a heinous authoritarian ruler. in fact, i think finally we have a president willing to take some tangible actions, measured actions, but tangible actions, to show that we are going to protect american interests in the middle east. so we have this isis problem, which raised its ugly head again this morning for the second time in alexandria in six years, and now we have this heinous auoritarian ruler using chemical weapons, so i think it's great president trump offered that strike and now the third phase is, secretary of state goes to russia soon and can talk about u.s. interests and where we're aligned like fighting isis and u.s. interests where we're not. >> but can you get rid of assad

before isis? >> i think we need to be pursuing parallel tracks. one of the complicating things about diplomacy and policy is this secretary of state kissinger has written about extense i havely, you have to be able to walk and chew gum at the same time. we need to go after isis every possible way, in that sense, the enemy, my enemy my friend with russia and go after assad as forcefully as we can, as well. i've argued in print that we should be containing syria and treat them like a wartime belligerent and do all the things to them as we were doing to germany, say, in 1941. >> congressman, are you at all concerned that the president didn't come to you or congress for authorization? does that set a bad precedent? >> well, i understand from a little bit of cursory research that the existing authorizations that president bush got have been used many times, both by president obama and in later president bush, and i assume

that's what president trump used for this, but ultimately, it would be real helpful to return the balance of power in our federal government between the legislative branch and the executive, which has been so severely undermined in recent years. >> some of your colleagues in congress are calling for proof that bashar al assad and not isis carried out tuesday's chemical attack and tulsi gabbard is top of mind on that front. have you seen that proof? >> you know, i haven't seen proof, but i think that's another level of abject mythology, and i couldn't believe it when i heard it uttered, to say that russia or somebody else were setting up the chemical weapons so that donald trump could have a victory. those kind of things are ludicrous to me. they are, obviously, on a syria air base, handled by syrians, the same people who had them back in 2013 and told us that they got rid of them in an agreement with the obama administration and russia.

obviously, not. so i don't think how you can remove the obvious footprints of syria all over these things, sweps some footprints of russia. >> i'm curious how this has changed the political temperament on capitol hill. as you know, some of the president's most vocal critics have come around to his side on these strikes. for example, lindsey graham. in fact, let's take a listen to him. >> you know, this guy, i think he was repulsed as a human being by what assad was capable of doing. the children really moved him, and all i can say about this president, he has the instincts of ronald reagan in many ways. >> what do you think of that statement, sir? >> well, i think it's really great that we finally have somebody taking some tangible action over there, and i'm glad that senator graham agrees. we've been through many years of mythological foreign policy. remember benghazi was a movie. remember, we can deal responsibly with regimes like iran when we come to find out we

should have already known we couldn't. and so -- or that we got rid of chemical weapons in 2013 in syria and we apparently did not. so i think it's time to take some measured, careful actions which show the world that the united states is back on the field, has pads on, is ready to play this foreign policy out to protect our interests. >> but to what extent, because we had 59 tomahawk cruise ss attack this base and within 24 hours after the strike we have syrian government jets already taking off again from the shayrat airfield. was the mission a success, or did it fail? >> i think it was a big success. first of all, finally a tangible action was taken. it's pretty obvious to russia what we can do with our tomahawks. i think a little skirmishing around and reported face saving by our adversary in syria is not going to undermine the obvious statement that we are here to play. we are here to take this situation on and protect america

and the free world. >> i want to ask you a quick question about north korea. as you know, sir, overnight the navy has ordered ships to the korean peninsula in response now to last week's missile launch, but the kim regime has carried out plenty of these missile tests before, so why the act now? >> well, again, i return to this change in foreign policy where we finally have done something in the world. if i was kim, i'd be thinking i wonder if i'm next, and certainly with a great apparent successful visit between the chinese premier and president trump this weekend, hopefully laying the groundwork for some cooperation with north korea. i'd be a little worried if i was kim now. >> according to our nbc news investigation, the nsc is presenting the president with strategies for handling north korea, including putting nuke's in south korea's one off option or getting rid of the dictator himself, kim jong-un. so do either of those concepts

have merit with you? would you support either one? >> that would depend. i think you have to look at these as escalating rings of policy that you don't want to do more than you have to do at any given time. at the end of the day, chi could help us so much to bring this regime under control or change it out if they wanted to do it. they dominate north korea. >> all right. congressman francis rooney, sir, of florida, thank you so much for your time. >> thanks for having me on, alex, happy birthday. >> thank you. a big conservative shift could begin tomorrow on the supreme court. a look at what that means for some of the most politically sensitive cases coming up. (de♪p breath) (phone ringing) they'll call back. no one knows your ford better than ford and ford service. right now, during the big tire event,

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find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at open.com. welcome back, everybody, i'm alex witt here in at msnbc headquarters in new york. new condemnation of the u.s. missile strike in syria coming from the presidents of russia and iran today. vladimir putin and hassan

rouhani agreed during a phone call this morning u.s. actions against syria last thursday violated international law. here's part of a report bynbc's bill neely in moscow. >> earlier today president putin spoke by phone with iran's president rouhani. they, of course, are allies in the fight to support president assad of syria, and russia and iran agreed that the u.s. missile strikes were unacceptable and they say that along with the lebanese group hezbollah, they are increasing their support for president assad's forces. >> in a separate phone call, secretary of state rex tillerson spoke with russian minister sergey lavrov today, saying the u.s. missile strike plays right into the hands of the extremists. let's bring in msnbc contributor steve clemons, steve, good to see you here. let's get right to what's happening today. we have the uk secretary of state for defense michael fallon issuing sharp words against

russia in an op-ed today. here's the quote, "assad's principle backer is russia. by proxy russia is responsible for every civilian death last week." he also gave support for the decision to launch air strikes in syria, so what are the takeaways for the trump administration, steve, as they see who supports the u.s. mission against assad? >> well, the only thing that's changed between last week and this week is donald trump's views. the british were seeing that a week ago, john mccain was saying that a week ago, hillary clinton was saying that a week ago. what shifted is president trump shifted into an inconsistent position with what he said in the past, that now he sees both chemical weapons against a crime against humanity and bashar al assad as propagator of those. i have quibbles about how he took that action, but that's what shifted. no one else has shifted, and what's really interesting is before this incident happened, donald trump largely ignored those calls about russia before. he wasn't animated either by the

criticism in syria, nor by the criticisms of putin and his antics around the world. >> how big a deal is it, though, accusing russia for being responsible for every civilia death in syria? >> it's an extraordinary accusation. it's basically saying that russia is complicit, deeply complicit with the syrian rescream and the murder, the torture, the terrorism against syrian citizens. as you and i have discussed many times, one of the complexities against syria is it's a set of competing civil wars with a set of proxy conflicts stacked on top of it, which is why syria has always been so complex, but now i think with the british and others calling russia, essentially, a cocollaborator with bashar al assad in syria, it reaches a level of complexity where donald trump is going to have to finally choose at some point, is he going to try to cuddle up next to vladimir putin or is he going to begin challenging this person and what

he's doing in the middle east in a more decisive way? >> and how much does this play into what happens 48 hours from now with rex tillerson heads to russia and he meets with his counterpart there and potentially may meet with putin? how much does it say if putin meets with rex tillerson or not? >> i think it's a huge deal if rex tillerson and that meeting were somehow to fall apart, then the world shifted. if rex tillerson goes and meets with putin and i'm someone who believes you have to engage everyone, even those he rivals with, it will be interesting to see what comes out of that, because both the united states and russ have been trying very ha during trump's time trying to avd conflict, trying to avoid moments, you know, even when barack obama came in and sanctioned a number of russian operations in the united states and expelled russian diplomats who he considered part of their spy operation, russia had a very

muted response to that. we're going to see whether or not after the tillerson meeting finally the gloves come off and both sides are much more hot with each other. >> senator lindsey graham, steve, said he believes the regime change is the policy of the trump administration, but you pointed out there was one set of ideology last week and now things have changed, so how much do we really know about the president's foreign policy, given that these strikes did that flip from his view in 2013, if not just a week ago? >> we know nothing. we know absolutely nothing. we don't know what the trump doctrine is, we don't know what trump's strategy is. we know people like mattis and mcmaster who are complex, strategic thinkers, but we don't know where the president is on this. the president seemed to be hijacked emotionally by the death of children in a gas attack, where he hadn't been moved to such a position by pictures of children or pictures of people who had been killed or tortured in the past, and so that in itself would be worrying, then as you pointed out just a short bit ago, we strike a base, we didn't disable

its runway, and syria immediately began launching further strikes against the same area. donald trump has since said syria will be expecting, will be expecting more response from the united states on those, but we have to look at this, you know, i think many people are saying, wow, finally someone took action, dropped some bombs on syria, hooray for the day, but i have to point out that's not a strategy. it doesn't show, as john mccain pointed out, what are you going to do in the long run, what are you going to do if this escalates, what if this did end up in a u.s.-russia conflict or u.s.-iranian conflict, which is much more direct? those questions need to be answered, because right now we have a lot of uncertainty, big question mark over what this strike means in donald trump's dashboard and where he's willing to go with it. >> all very important questions that you raise there. we do need the answers. thank you so much. always good to see you, steve clemons. >> happy birthday. >> thank you. has peace been restored in the white house? what about the shakeup allegedly in the works? that's all ahead. u! imagine if the things you bought every day

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donald trump on thursday afternoon at mar-a-lago said to jared and to steve bannon, knock it off, you guys are close, you need to work it out. and on friday late afternoon, steve bannon, reince priebus, jared, and ivanka sat down together and had a media. >> that was jonathan schawn on the inner workings of the trump white house. joining me now, erin mcpike and katelyn huey burns with real clear politics. always good to see you both. erin, i'm going to start with you here, because this week the media has been chasing reports of the palace intrigue. you have axias reporting today trump has defused the west wing feud, at least for now. are you hearing the same thing? >> partially so, alex, and katie walsh, that deput chief of staff that run the outside groups that coordinate some of the political activity for donald trump, she was trying to

kind of coordinate the different factions between priebus, bannon, and kushner and stepped aside because that was so hard to do. i think that's one of the reasons why she left the white house, but, obviously, i think we're seeing in a broader way that the trump administration is putting out higher ranking officials this weekend between rex tillerson joining the abc sunday program, between h.r. mcmaster, the national security adviser going on fox news sunday. they are trying to spotlight higher ranking officials who are important in a time of crisis as opposed to some of the political advisers like a kushner, a bannon, or a priebus, who's, obviously, done a lot of tv and kellyanne conway, too. >> katelyn, trump told bannon and kushner to, quote, knock it off, you have to work together here. trump is not very likely to fire his son-in-law, of course. do you think bannon and priebus are in for the long haul? >> it's always striking to me when the president announced that both bannon and priebus

would share this kind of dual role. they are both kinds of acting chiefs of staff in a way, but actually kushner has been playing more of that chief of staff kind of role, really having his hands in pretty much everything that the president is doing, and, of course, his portfolio has expanded significantly, covering all sorts of different areas. he's, of course, closest to trump. not only as a son-in-law, but as an adviser, so i think right now i think erin's right, they want to put the focus on other leaders, especially given the current news and events at hand and let this kind of settle itself out, but it doesn't seem to me -- i mean, bannon has a very strong personality, as we know, so i'm wondering how long this kind of settlement lasts. >> i'm curious, erin, about the dynamic. when you have priebus, bannon in a meeting with kushner and ivanka, i mean, how odd might that be? >> very odd, and i think one of

the things you're hearing in washington is that jared kushner and ivanka trump maybe are a little bit more progressive on the political spectrum, whereas bannon is, obviously, this kind of although right conservative type and priebus represents the establishment. you have three competing viewpoints, so how could they possibly come together, come up with a conclusion on any policy issue? that makes things very difficult. >> erin, i want to stay with you, because i want to turn to the syria story. you occupied the only report seen on secretary tillerson's seat on asia. he had been reclusive from the media until this week. do you see a transformation? >> alex, i think it's because of the seriousness of the story. obviously, he's talking a lot about syr. 's headed to russia and he's goingo be talking about important policy issues and wants to get his message out. and that is what he told me, that he only thinks that he needs to use the media when he has an objective to push and a message to get out and that's what's happening right now.

he doesn't necessarily want to be talking to the media, but he sees a means to an end here and that's why he's doing it. >> katelyn, while so many of us have been transfixed on russia, you've been writing about the lack of action in congress, rather the actions there in syria, not russia. tell us about that. >> right. well, congress just departed for a two-week recess, which means donald trump will be holding down the fort in washington and they had hoped to return to recess with something in hand. remember, the health care bill failed. right now, of course, there are questions about whether congress will be taking on any of the policy involving syria. i was talking to lots of lawmakers on the hill last week after the strikes. of course, they were briefed then by the white house. a lot of questions remain on capitol hill about what the president's strategy is moving forward, particularly on foreign policy, and this is a kind of issue, of course, that scrambles alliances on capitol hill. you have lots of lawmakers kind

of wondering what comes next. lots of lawmakers, some asking for congress to buy in, to have some buy in here to weigh in, and we're not just -- we're not sure what the administration wants from congress at this point, what their foreign policy is at this point. >> all right. katelyn huey burns and erin mcpike, thank you for the conversation, much appreciate it. some say it could be one of president trump's most lasting legacies. what to expect when neil gorsuch becomes a supreme court justice tomorrow. and at the top of the hour on "meet the press," chuck todd speaks to u.s. ambassador to the u.n. nikki haley.

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the trump administration will enter this week on a political high when judge neil

gorsuch is sworn in as an associate supreme court justice tomorrow morning. with several cases pending in the high court, we're going to see as early as this week where exactly gorsuch fits in. some of these are cases that could test his independence from president trump, one of the key sticking points for senate democrats who fought to plok bl him. joining me now, nina totenburg. what are the cases most pressing in your mind? >> well, there's only one round of arguments left, and the biggest of those cases is a separation of church and state issue involving aid to a religious school. we assume at this point that the court is likely split 4-4 and that gorsuch is likely to cast the deciding vote, and based on his history, i would say that he'll probably side with less separation of church and state

and more helping religious schools where there is a neutral program not involving religion. >> and we should say this is the one about -- it's basical a playground resurfacrerfacing, r for a lutheran preschool that's adjacent to the church there. public schools have gotten the funding for this type of thing and support, and this is the school that has not. >> this school is one of the ones that has not. they applied for a grant. they ranked well in the grant application process but were denied because they're a religious school. >> denied by the state. so this is where the supreme court will jump in here. >> that's correct. >> how much do you think gorsuch's arrival changes the direction we saw in recent years on, say, affirmative action or same-sex marriage, for example? you have that issue of the bakery in colorado that denied giving cakes on a wedding day to a same-sex couple. that has to be one he looks at. >> that one is pending.

as long as the makeup of the court other than gorsuch stays the same, most of these hot button issues will have the same outcome. but conservative activists are very much alive and buzzing with the notion that justice anthony kennedy, who is 80 years old, and who has voted with liberals in a number of these cases, that justice kennedy may retire at the end of this term. were that to happen, and were president trump to fill that seat, it would, in all likelihood, dramatically change the balance of the court. >> and we know that justice kennedy will be the one who will be presiding over swearing in at the second swearing-in there at the white house. this may not be always part of a talked-about president's legacy, but how much has first supreme court choices affected and framed past presidents' legaci s legacies? >> usually what happens is that

it's an existing court. it's a previous president's nominees who affect most vitally the current presid outcome. now, this court has a basically conservative majority except on a couple of key issues, like same-sex marriage. and what we don't really know is whether a court that was conservative and hostile to some of president obama's rather expansive initiatives will be similarly hostile to trump initiatives. that's the $64 question. >> very quickly, ruth bader ginsberg, 84, anthony kennedy, 80. how much does the nuclear option which was invoked affect the choices going forward? >> well, it affects it totally because there is no possibility for the minority to block the

next nominee. as long as there is a majority in the senate, that person will get confirmed. >> nina totenburg, thank you very much for weighing in. up next on "meet the press," u.n. ambassador nikki haley. ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what's now and what's next.

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