tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC April 13, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am PDT
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it's time to call out wikileaks for what it is. a non-state hostile intelligence service often embedded by hosti hostile like shall russia. the gru used wikileaks to release vixx timz that the gru obtained through cyber operations against the democratic national committee. and the report also found that russia's primary propaganda outlet r.t. has actively collaborated with wikileaks. >> welcome back to the 11th hour. that there was the new cia director mike pompeo with some strong words about wikileaks and sounding a bit different than his boss did on that same topic when he was still a candidate. >> russia, if you're listening, i hope you're able to find the 30,000 e-mails that are missing. all you have to do is take a
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look at wikileaks. this just came out, this just came out. wikileaks, i love wikileaks. [cheering and applauding] amazing how nothing is secret toy enou talk about the internet. wikileaks, wikileaks, they've got to start talking about wikileaks. the wonder of wikileaks. we love wikileaks, boy, they have really -- wikileaks. they have -- wikileaks. wikileaks. that came out on wikileaks. >> also tonight on the russia front, the british newspaper the guardian is reporting it was british spies who told u.s. intelligence officials about contacts between donald trump's campaign team and russian intelligence operatives. that started in late 2015. this all comes on the heels of the news that former trump campaign chairman paul manafort will be registering with the justice department as a foreign agent. that is apparently linked to work he did for pro-russian politicians in ukraine. thankfully, our panel remains
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with us tonight. robert costa, catherine lucy, rick stengel. robert costa, on wikileaks, it sounds so much like the narrative -- your newspaper has a headline wondering if trump has become a conventional republican. this move to make him more establishment, more mainstream even if it's his -- the people he picked out who are doing it. >> it is such a contrast we're watching in the early months of this presidency, compared to the trump we saw on the campaign trail who rev he willed in in l intelligence information, sometimes private information revealed by wikileaks. this was an organization that was looked down upon by the u.s. government, was seen as operating in a negative way. revealing too much information that was inappropriate. perhaps even classified. and now as president he's running the federal government and he's in a different position with his officials striking a different tone. >> catherine, when you hear that he brought no members of his
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senior staff with him to florida, and we have a long weekend here, and you see what you see going on in the west wing, what do you think is going on inside? >> well, obviously he's down there and his staff we assume will continue working over the weekend. obviously he can be in touch with folks as he needs to be. but i'd be surprised if we don't hear from him some over the weekend, just knowing the president and knowing how he likes to communicate directly with folks over twitter. so, it's certainly likely that we'll be hearing from him more. >> and rick stengel, what do you make of all of this? wikileaks and russia kind of got normalized in that weird period of months we have just lived through, normalizing them back again, making sure people see them as arms of whatever organization or states they're arms of. that's going to take some doing. >> well, and i have to say, i thought it was bold and strong what the cia director said about wikileaks. i could not agree more. they're a dangerous
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transgressive organization that has been in cahoots with russia. president trump's embrace of them is something which is discouraging and sad, to use his term. now that i've been in government, i really see the damage that they've done. the most recent release affected an area that i worked with about the migration of isis off of nonencrypted platforms to encrypted platforms and the revelations about what we know about how to get inside encrypted platforms. very, very, very damaging information. >> how do you conduct state craft in the era of wikileaks? >> you can't. and the other thing, brian, just to also call folks out, i mean, mainstream news organizations also cooperated with wikileaks during the different revolutions. i never did that. i did interview julian assange. the "the new york times," other publications did printed stories based on what his stolen illegal
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information. >> robert costa, it's been what, 84 days. i don't think even the most generous reading of this administration would be anything to fear, an establishment administration, an establishment president or presidency. but what would your, what would your lead be if you had to sum it up tonight, if it was the last piece you were going to write for a while, if we were going to time capsule this and freeze it in time, what kind of presidency is this as of day 84? >> i could see it right now, brian, a defiant white house, a skittish republican party. this is a white house that has the same bravado as the president and the sources there, as you would expect, are saying that kind of thing. but this is a republican party on capitol hill that i cover closely that's nervous. they look ahead to 2018. this close race in kansas this past week for special house election, special house election coming up in georgia next
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tuesday where the democrats ahead. they say to themselves, the major thing that's happened on capitol hill with trump is neil gorsuch being confirmed for the supreme court, but no major legislation, no major legislation has come through. i wonder as i look at the president's polls, can this be sustained, can the party keep its majorities? they don't really share the defiance that's over there on pennsylvania avenue. >> all right. everybody stand by. we're going to hear from a member of congress and have you all back. the panel sticking here. coming up, the bomb on isis, the threat of north korea. we'll be joined live by a member of the armed services committee about today's headlines when "the 11th hour" continues. ♪
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for tormz of our conversation tonight sits on the house armed services committee. congressman, let's begin. i've got to take these in terms of importance in north korea. >> sure. >> which represents a real and present, it seems to me, danger to life here in this country and in other places. the last associated press breaking news is, north korea's vice foreign minister says president trump is, quote, making trouble with, quote, aggressive tweets. what do you make of this situation and how the united states should proceed? >> it is extremely dangerous, extremely dangerous. north korea is not just another country. north korea has one of the largest armys in the world. they are prepared for war, have been as is south korea, as is the united states. got to be really, really careful here about what you say, where you're deploying forces because you don't know how north korea is going to respond. they may very well do a nuclear
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test. now, what is trump going to do? the card has been played. how will he play his card? we could wind up in an extremely dangerous and horrible war situation by a mistake that could be made here. and we need to keep in mind what trump has shown us in the 18, 20 months of his campaign. he showed that he is bombastic, that he is profane, that he's a bully. he's bullying or attempting perhaps to bully north korea. i'd be careful, very careful here because this is extremely dangerous. >> you're on armed services and general barry mccaffery got our attention a few days back. he said in his view we should kind of switch our priority to defense, and that is protecting seattle, l.a., your district, all our population centers within range of whatever munition they come up with next, protecting our people and places
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three administrations previously have tried to do this. they have not succeeded. will this administration succeed? we certainly hope so. but at the same time, be careful about drawing a red line that may draw us into a major conflict on the korean peninsula. and as has been said many times in this evening, when the president was on the campaign trail he was saying, i will blank and bomb them, blank, blank. so, what is north korea hearing? they're hearing the rhetoric of the campaign. and frankl it has not diminished. he has sent a major, as he called it, armada, which is not a particularly good term because i think the spanish armada didn't do too well. in any case, it is provocative and will it cause north korea to back down? probably not by itself. but in the context of china, russia and others, all of those
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countries, including ours, putting pressure on them, moving them away from a nuclear weapons. we've got to do that. at the same time, we've got plenty of problems in syria, the middle east and afghanistan. it has been 16 years since the united states congress has visited the issue of peace or war in afghanistan. the authorization to use military force in afghanistan is now 16 years old. we need to go back as members of congress, carry out our constitutional responsibilities, and decide whether and how we're going to continue that war. to that end, a republican walter jones and i have introduced legislation that would effectively cause congress to once again deal with this issue of the afghanistan authorization to use military force, which is the legal argument that is being used to deal with isis in syria. that's a long stretch, but
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nonetheless, that is the legal argument that the obama administration used and this administration also. so, congress has to engage here. we need to ask the generals, hey, president trump said develop a plan within 30 days of destroying isis. what is that plan? not necessarily the war plans, but what is the deployment of troops, how much money do you need, what kind of weapons do you need, and how are you going to use the soft power, the soft power of the united states, the state department and all the rest? complex, but we've got to get to it and congress has to play its role. >> congressman john garamandi, from california, thank you for joining us this thursday night. >> thank you. >> a break for us, another lively town hall tonight. we'll take a live look here at mesa, arizona. the state's junior senator republican jeff flake is facing the heat from voters there tonight. the 11th hour continues right after this.
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>> as a fiscal conservative, what is your position on all the weekend trips the president makes to mar-a-lago in >> with regard to presidents and what they do on the weekend, i'm not going to criticize presidents. [ booing ] >> a packed and rowdy town hall in arizona tonight. that was republican senator jeff flake. he is up for reelection next year and is considered to be a vulnerable gop seat. robert, catherine and rick remain with us. robert costa, i've always wondered, people running for office want the public to come too big events, to town hall events, come out and help them win election and be part of the crowd. why is it when they get in office they're not all that interested, many of them, won't do what senator flake is doing tonight? they won't have town hall meetings? and when they do, too many of them complain about organized
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agitators shutting it down. >> it's a great point. as a reporter, there is nothing better sometimes than covering a town hall meeting. but so often these lawmakers today are having teletown hall meetings. you don't get to see them in the flesh to see them interact with constituents. this flake town hall, brian, is fascinating because if there is ansenator who irked the president during the campaign, itas senator flake of arizona. my reporting tells me that the president would often complain about senator flake even to his face when he would visit the capital during the campaign. and now flake finds himself in a way having to defend the trump agenda, the trump administration, even though he's not a full-throated supporter. >> catherine, in the modern era, you think of a guy like jerry ford, came from the house of representatives where he was a giant representing his district out in grand rapids. and so many of his thoughts and deeds every day were kind of party minded. he thought like a legislator and a local party guy.
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there is none of that now. what can donald trump start giving these gop men and women to run on and defend their seats with? >> that's a good question and it's complicated because of course donald trump is not a traditional republican, even though obviously he won the republican nomination and went on to run with all these members. so, some of them have to make different choices about whether they run on what the white house is doing, whether they try and go it alone. and it depends a lot -- i mean, a lot of these races do vary by district, but obviously a mid-term election can be a referendum of the president and the work of the president and congress. and, so, i think we're going to really see how, how voters feel about that. >> rick stengel, if you sent president trump out to campaign for folks, when air force one touches down, is that these days a help or a hindrance, an asset or a liability? >> i suspect it's a liable.
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i've actually always thought when presidents come and campaign in local districts and arrive on air force one, they have these gigantic motorcades that snarl towns for miles, i've always thought this imperial presidency is not something the american people like. and actually looking at senator flake's town hall, these -- some of these guys have to triangulate now between trump and conservative republicans. and he's in a perfect example of it. that is a really, really tricky situation. it's not just between republicans and democrats now because trump is not a typical republican as we've all been saying. and the people who support him come from, you know, all different kinds of backgrounds. it's really tricky. >> robert, as you look back at it, did the speaker of the house really take a political bullet in not allowing that health care measure with 17% popularity, even before the rewrite, come up for an actual vote? because the members who did stick their necks out and say, i'll support it, are catching
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all kinds of flack back home. >> that's so true. and the speaker knew the political dynamic would be disastrous potentially for some of his members. whenever a bill is suspected to fail on the floor, as a congressional reporter i can tell you a lot of people start just pulling away from the bill, the support moves away. and ryan knew that and the speaker said, i don't want people to be part of supporting the bill that's likely to fall apart in the senate or never even pass the house. so, he asked the white house to pull the legislation. but republicans are still getting heat about the affordable care act because the president keeps trying to revive it so it's an active issue, looking far ahead to 2018. >> please note something very important as we look at the live pictures from mesa, arizona. people are behaving themselves. they are being civil and polite. yes, there was a chicken suit in the front row, but they've clearly been given green pieces of paper to identify themselves if they have a question. they're showing -- there is our friend the chicken on the front
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row. they're showing better behavior candidly than they see out of washington in a lot of people. senator jeff flake hopg to get reelected there in arizona. great thanks to our thursday night panel, robert costa, catherine lucy, rick stengel, thank you all for coming and for sharing your work with us. when the 11th hour continues, the surprising number, the percentage of the trump presidency spent thus far at his florida resort.
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last thing before we go here tonight, president donald trump arrived in palm beach, florida where he will spend the easter weekend at his resort mar-a-lago. this is the president's seventh weekend of his 84 days in office. this means by the time president trump is wheels up, leaving mar-a-lago on sunday, he will have spent 28% of his term at his florida resort, and that includes the time spent traveling to and from his florida resort. by one estimate, these trips are costing taxpayers 3 million bucks a throw, and not helping the optics of all of it was the second blue and white air force jet today. though smaller than air force one, arriving at the same time and carrying the first lady to florida from new york where she lives with their son barron.
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that is our broadcast on the thursday night. thank you so much for being here with us. and good night from new york. tonight on "all in." >> we have given them total authorization. >> america just used the largest bomb yet in afghanistan, but who gave the order? trump's cabinet of generals and the expanding military footprint. >> i would bomb the [ bleep ] out of them. then the fight for health care. republicans hear from their voters. >> i want this repeal crap to stop. >> as the president threatens to sabotage obamacare. plus, leaked plans for the trump deportation force. >> we have to do it. >> and about that cake. >> we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen. >> what mar-a-lago doesn't want you to know about its kitchen. >> president xwaen
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