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i'm proud to make dog chow in (vodavenport, iowa.an. dog chow's been a part of my family's life for over 40 years. my grandfather made it and now i'm making it. as a micro-biologist i ensure that dog chow leads with high quality ingredients. good morning. i'm thoma roberts at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it's just after 9:00 in the east, just after 6:00 out west. happening now, north korea rolling out powerful missiles as officials threaten a nuclear response to a potential strike by the u.s. this was a massive show of military might, and it comes on a very important day in that country. it was the birth anniversary of kim il-sung, the grandfather of kim jong-un and the founder of north korea. nbc's janice mckay fair joins

us. is the threat from the north raising concern from south korea? we'll point out vice president mike pence is on his way to south korea right now. >> reporter: with tension heightening here, there was this massive parade in pyongyang of missiles and military hardware. the regime promised a big' haven't to mark this important day on the calendar. it certainly -- analysts believe there was at least one, as many as three types of enter continental ballistic missiles. they say they need to study it further to know if these might be capable of reaching the united states. kim jhung inwas there center stage. there was warning that the u.s. faces all-out war and an nool lags if north korea was attacked, all this coming after weeks of speculation that north korea is preparing to carry out

a sixth nuclear test or some sort of missile launch. this would follow a pattern over the last couple months when there's been a series of provocations. >> we know the president is hopeful of the leadership of china, president xi. since returning from the meeting in florida, do we know if president xi has had any outreach to north korea? >> this is an important distinction, thomas. this is an area of the world that is familiar to this sort of tension. but the difference this time in this escalation as compared to past crises is this emergence of china as a possible broker. china is north korea's main ally and its economic lifeline. there have been important indirect and subtle moves on the part of china. last week editorials in newspapers thought to reflect the thinking of the chinese leadership suggested that china is tired of having the north korea nuclear issue at its

doorstep. they urged the regime to avoid mistakes and said if north korea did go through with a sixth nuclear test, it could face china, deciding to cut its oil shipments. there are being subtle messages telegraphed to the regime. whether they're being heard is unclear. it was certainly a message of military strength that was on display today in pyongyang. >> nbc's janice mckay frayer. the president is expected in south korea sometime later tonight, sunday morning really getting there. mr. pens is leaving or left just about an hour ago from joint base andrews. president trump meanwhile is at mar-a-lago for the easter weekend. nbc's kelly o'donnell is traveling with the president in florida. kelly, it may be a holiday but a weekend in florida once again for the president. explain what he's going to be doing while he's there. >> he will be celebrating easter

with his family, and at this point we know he's left his mara lago home. we don't know yet from the small group of journalists, the rotating pool, where he is headed today. by past experience he often goes to one of the trump international golf clubs in the area. that may be where he's headed. we'll find out soon. for president trump this is a time when he has been showing his commander-in-chief authority in ways that perhaps people had not expected with strikes on syria and afghanistan in recent days. it comes at a time when tensions with north korea are particularly high. you mentioned the vice president who took off from joint base andrews a short time ago, he'll make a stop in anchorage for refueling o to seoul. this trip is important for the vice president and the trump administration. also important to note, it's been planned for a couple of months, but given the world tensions, it comes at a critical time. >> reporter: what counts as

celebration in north korea again rattles nerves around the world. the north's nuclear capabilities and bellicose test launches pose a major challenge to president trump. >> north korea is a problem. the problem will be taken care of. >> reporter: today the vice president heads to seoul, south korea, part of a four-country trip. pence intends to deliver a message of unwavering support to the u.s. ally most vulnerable to a nuclear strike. >> really the president's message, the vice president's message is to show our support with our allies and the fact that we are there with them and we'll confront this threat together. >> while president trump has a new friendship with his chinese counterpart, shine nah's foreign minister urged caution, saying the u.s. and north korea have their swords drawn. in less than two weeks, president trump deployed american fire power against syria and isis in afghanistan with the pentagon's first-ever use of what it calls the mother of all bombs.

>> we are so proud of our military and it was another successful event. >> reporter: the white house made use of an old washington play, releasing a controversy stirring document on a holiday weekend. this time the trump administration announced visitor logs, secret service records showing who gets inside the white house, and, therefore, who might have influence, will be kept secret, citing grave national security risks and privacy concerns of the hundreds of thousands of visitors annually. critics argue the decision undercuts transparency and the president's pledge to drain the swamp. but what is clearly visible, the president's dc to palm beach commute. this eter holiday marks the seveh of 13 weekends in office president trump spent in florida at his mar-a-lago home. >> thomas, as he dikted, during just the seconds of our taped report, we've learned the president has, in fact, arrived

at the trump international golf club. we expect perhaps recreation is on tap. white house officials are not saying specifically what he is doing. sometimes he does take phone calls and meetings there as well. what's notable this weekend as well, thomas, we have seen the president often travel with his most senior staff members. that's not the case this weekend, perhaps it's the easter holiday. the most senior level staffers are at home back in d.c. spending the holiday with their families perhaps. the president does have staff with them, but not the big names like reince priebus, jared kushner or steve bannon. >> kelly, i hope we put you up in a nicer hotel, somewhere not right near the train tracks. >> reporter: we comment on it all the time. the moment we're live, there it is. >> irish catholic, kelly o'donnell, i hope you found a church there for easter -- >> absolutely.

>> your easter basket is on the way. joining me to talk about north korea, susan dimaggio from new america where she focuses on international security for the middle east and asia. it's great to see you. as this administration, as the last one came to a close, you said the next president had to put north korea high on the to do list. you were just in north korea in february. how do you react to president trump's discussions and actions about north korea and what it may do and what has been reaction within north korea to this president? >> well, i think the world is on edge as tensions have risen dramatically between the united states and north korea. i know president trump has a liking for teting abt things like this and for unpredictability. i would hope we would take a step back. we've entered a period where there's now a ratcheting up of

tensions, a tit for tat. a dangerous escalation that could lead to maybe not even intentional conflict but inadvertent conflict. i think this is a time for the united states to clarify what its policy is. just yesterday we've been starting to hear the term maximum pressure with engagement. we need to clarify what that means now. >> when it comes to kim jong-un, people say he's unpredictable and wants to demonstrate the type of force seen through that parade that we just saw within the last 24 hours. how do you think that they are recalibrating their actions based on what they've seen out of the trump administration so far in its response to syria, for example? >> what we've seen yesterday through the massive show of support and parade is really business as usual for north korea. it's nothing new. they do this annually, a holiday for the north korean people.

it's a time for kim jong-un to show his might, show off new military hardware. that's something we're used to, the blufter and the muscles. but what's new is actually our side being as vocal in the bluster. i think now is a time for more of a steady hand as we approach north korea. we want to get china as part of this maximum pressure side of the equation. in terms of engagement, we really need to clarify what are the preconditions for engagement? we're hearing mixed messages from the administration. for example, secretary tillerson said we will not engage until north korea denuclearizes. that's a non-starter. they're not going to do that. we need a practical game plan for dealing with this eve growing crisis. >> you mentioned the president's tweets, you mentioned china working more as a bridge to these discussions. do you think china can handle

this role? >> this is the big if in the question. if you're laying out a new policy that depends on maximum pressure, we'll need china's cooperation. unlike what president trump said, this is not an issue that can be tackled on our own. that's a myth. we need to get china to do more. so far they've done a little bit. we've seen them come back, some north korean ships carrying coal. it seems like they're abiding by the u.n. security council resolutions. will they cut off the oil supply which north korea desperately needs or will they go further? that's what we're waiting to see. >> you were just there in february. what was your biggest impression from the north korean people that you met in regard to the american people having donald trump as president? >> this is a time of uncertainty. they know the united states government was taking a policy

review in their country. they were eager to know what that could possibly be, what the contours are. the main message i came back with is that they are moving full speed ahead with their nuclear weapons program and missile development. their nuclear program they said is not a bargaining chip. we need to find a way to get to some sort of agreement that will at least freeze progress on their program and ratchet down the tension so we can start having discussions. >> suzanne dimaggio, thank you for your time. what prompted the trump administration to suddenly stop posting most of the visitor logs from the white house? we are going to dive in. remember back in january they said they were going to keep up the obama administration policy of making them public. well, that's not going to happen. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back...

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so political headlines at 17 past the hour. the trump administration taking new steps to lay out its policies to allies in asia. vice president mike pence on his way to south korea this morning, having departed roughly about an hour ago, part of an 11-day trip to asia along with his wife karen amid rising tensions in north korea. the white house is pushing back on criticism after rolling back an obama administration precedent of releasing most visitor logs. the white house says grave national security risks and privacy concerns prompted its decision yesterday to keep those records private on going. president trump is at his mar-a-lago estate where he's spending easter weekend with his family. here is part of his weekly address. >> i also want to give a special message to those struggling americans who felt for too long the bitter taste of hard ship. i want you to know this white house is fighting for you. we are fighting for every

american who has been left behind. we are fighting for the right of all citizens to enjoy safety and peace and to work and live with the dignity that all children of god are entitled to know. >> the democrats are sending out a similar message this morning as two of its leaders put aside differences for a so-called unity tour. it starts on monday. here is dnc chair tom perez delivering this week's address. >> donald trump isn't shaking things up. he's shaking american families down, and democrats won't let him get away with it. that's why i'm hitting the road next week with senator bernie sanders to speak with people across the country about how we can come together and fight back for our values. as president trump retreats to the golf course while his 100th day in office approaches, bernie and i will be taking directly to the streets and talking to voters about how the democratic party is fighting for you. >> the dnc taking it on the

road. also new today, a warning for president trump on the issue of immigration. here is congressman steve king in an interview from last night. >> i am not at the level of being happy with what donald trump has done. he's done some good things and seems to have put a lot of good things in place. dhaka still exists. i told the president every day you don't address this, it gets harder and harder to do. his base is starting to get uneasy because they haven't seen his movement on daca. not confident on the wall. >> steve king coming out with reminders. heidi przybilla from "usa today" and senior editor for business insider and msnbc contributor josh barrel. josh, you heard steve king there. is the base uneasy? >> we're seeing donald trump's

poll numbers hold up pretty well. what people are seeing in immigration is the stepup in raids by i.c.e. no, i don't think yet a lot of people are -- have the sense that donald trump is not delivering on immigration. steve king has a very extreme opinion on immigration, daca protects people that came to the united states when they were very young even without authorization. that program is quite popular. i think people expect in the end if they had an immigration deal, that's an area where probably that set of unauthorized immigrants would eventually be authorized to live in the united states. i don't think he's at danger on that issue yet. >> heidi, president trump said a lot of day one things that haven't happened yet on day 86. do you think there's issue with waning base support? >> i think on foreign policy he's been pretty much taken away

from the populist economic platform he was hoping to push through. that made this calculation they'd come out first with the travel ban. that wound up getting tangled up in the courts. now we have several hot spots around the world where the president's attentions are being pulled away. it's unclear where he can move some of the populist economic policies on the campaign trail, whether he can move those through congress. i bring you back, for example, to the infrastructure plan. a lot of senior democrats i talked to on the hill that said, look, if he started with an infrastructure plan or trying to meet with democrats about a true middle class tax cut, that he may have been a lot more successful. now the situation looks very different, like i said. international conflicts, you have democrats who feel like the well has been poisoned in terms of pushing gorsuch through and using the nuclear option. i think it is a potentially difficult spot for him to be in in terms of his populist economic message.

>> you make a great point there, as we just showed -- can we put that back up, the graphic demonstrating what's happened and the green check being next to nominate and confirm a supreme court justice in neil gorsuch. as you point out, heidi, going the route of the nuclear option on all of this is a big deal. that's going to set precedent moving forward. as we think about the foreign policy issues, josh, of what the president has now had to take on with syria, north korea, isis and afghanistan, is there one area that seems like a flashpoint for him or is this a lot of sabre radding and trying to send a larger message about what his occupation of the oval office means? >> so far these are operations that involve launching things from the air, firing 60 tomahawk missiles at the air base in syria, dropped an enormous bomb on afghanistan. so long as that is what donald trump is doing, i think that's going to be actually a popular thing for him.

it seems to have gotten him more support from more corners in washington that had been critical of his administration to date. however, i think there are two risks here. one is north korea is really outside his control. it depends how much the north koreans decide to push and make trouble. the extent to which we escalate there is not really donald trump's choice entirely. the other thing is, there's only so much you can do from the air. eventually there's going to be a temptation to send ground troops somewhere. in particular, a report from bloomberg saying h.r. mcmaster, the national security adviser, is drawing up a plan for tens of thousands of ground troops in syria. i wouldn't assume that donald trump is about to do that. he may face a choice in one of these places where he's trying to get something done, trying to push assad in a certain direction. he can't do that from the air and he'll have to decide whether to send troops in or back down. donald trump doesn't like to be seen as somebody who backs down. i'm somewhat concerned we'll end up in a ground engagement somewhere that both we've seen in iraq and other places in the

middle east, that that doesn't necessarily go very well. i also think that will not earn him the same applause that these relatively small attacks from the air do. those ground engagements often end up being quite unpopular. >> the swell of support that got him into office was based on, as heidi pointed out, this populist message of america first. now there's this appetite being demonstrated from this white house about praise worthy headlines because of dropping a bomb in afghanistan or sending those nearly 60 missiles toward syria. the consequences that come out of that, heidi, when we think about the potential for multiple wars on several different fronts, how is that going to continue donald trump's issues with going against his campaign promises? >> well, part of it is he's facing the reality of -- the

geopolitical reality of being the world leader here. part of it is reflected in the personnel changes that are going on in the white house which look much more like a conventional republican establishment staffing and pushing out some of these america first more populist folks like steve bannon. to your point about it's easier to just drop bombs than to have a conventional war, just dropping bombs is popular. yeah, at this stage he's getting a lot of support, but like josh points out, any one of these conflicts risks dragging us into a major ground war. when you look at the numbers, thomas, there is not the support in this country. we are still a very war-weary nation. we're looking at all the money getting sucked up into these conflicts versus what could be spent here to rebuild our roads and bridges. there's going to be a very limited appetite once this goes beyond dropping off a one-often missile to kill isis. if trump does have to send in

ground troops, for example, to re-establish that red line in syria. >> who would imagine 15 years later we'd be talking about dropping a massive bomb in afghanistan at this point right now? real quickly, josh, leave start with you, steve bannon, does he survive in the west wing? if he does, more dangerous on the outside? >> more dangerous to trump, possibly. we've seen steve bannon's history, the way he can turn tools against you if you cross him. i don't know if he's going to survive or not. it's clear he's on the outs in the white house. i'd push back on heidi saying this is a more traditional white house. a lot of people ascendant in the white house are democrats, gary cohen, jared kushner until recently a democrat. one thing i wonder with this new guard in the white house is whether they would work with a republican congress, can push donald trump in unexpected policy directions he doesn't have support for in the other

branches of government. >> there's gina powell and ivanka trump in there as well. heidi. >> i don't think we've seen much indication that it matters in domestic policy. what we've seen on health care, for instance, is the domestic agenda was completely outsourced to the hill. that was a republican deal from start to finish. what we saw was that trump himself as well as his advisers, bannon, reince, didn't have the policy chops or the knowledge of how capitol hill works to push that agenda through. it was largely on ryan's shoulders. now, if this new guard coming in does show it does business differently, taking more ownership of pushing the domestic agenda, it will be fascinating to see that interplay between republican leaders and officials in the white house. the first test of that showed it was basically an outsourcing job.

>> heidi and josh, great to see you both. thanks for joining me. we have a day of protests, upset americans over why president trump hasn't released his tax returns. a preview of what to expect next.

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...saving time when it matters most. stay with me, mrs. parker. that's the power of and. i'm thomas roberts at msnbc world headquarters in new york. police say the stampede and mass hysteria at new york's penn station was set off by popping sounds, people thinking it was gunfire. look at this video captured on cell phone. it was actually sounds of a taser amtrak police used on an unruly man. travellers didn't know the difference at the time. >> i saw a whole bunch of people running. my first instinct was to run. it was a spam ped. everybody nervous. it's a nervous time. everybody really scared. >> 16 people suffered minor

injuries. the man being tased was later led out in handcuffs. today marks the fourth anniversary of the boston marathon bombings which killed three people and injured more than 250 others. a short time ago the boston mayor, marty walsh, laid a wreath at the finish line to honor the victims. plans to execute eight death row inmates in arkansas are on hold after tuesday's preliminary injunction. opponents are challenging the use of the drug who they say is not meant for lethal injections. tax protests set for across the country, an effort to get the president to release his tax returns. nbc's maya rodriguez is where the march is set to kick off. these people would really like to see trump's taxes. >> reporter: exactly. that's what they say.

they have several goals in mind. right now we're getting ready for the march to get started. expecting several hundred people. you can see they've started setting up the sign-up tables, all this getting started within the next hour or so. like you mentioned, this is all part of an effort to try to pressure president trump to release his tax returns. he has not done so, he says, because he's being audited by the irs, however, most presidents have released these voluntarily since the 1970s. presidents are not required to do this. joining us is one of the organizers. how many people are you expect? >> we're expecting about a thousand to 2,000 people to come out today. it's a nice beautiful day in georgia. i think we're going to have a very good crowd. >> tell us a little bit about what you're hoping to accomplish with this. >> three major goals. our first goal is to demand

transparency from this administration. that's one. our second goal is to say that president should release his taxes, every president has done it since 1970. our last goal is to make it law that anyone running for office from the state board all the way up to the president has to release their taxes. that just helps us americans understand their point of view and where they're coming from and the type of laws they may try to institute. >> we have heard that president trump is looking attacks reform. do you have any concerns with that? >> absolutely. what i want to know, is he going to try to enrich himself and his family. i heard he's trying to get rid of the estate tax. that's not going to benefit the people in the red states that voted for them because most of them don't get a state tax. very concerning. >> thank you very much for joining us today. again, this march in atlanta set to start in about an hour. it's more than 100 takes place across the country from new york, washington. >> are you in piedmont park?

where is the march going to go? just in the park or do they take to the city streets? >> reporter: they're starting here and are going to start walking down some of the city streets. not clear whether they'll be marching in the actually streets or sticking to the sidewalks. >> all right. maya rodriguez, keep us posted. thank you. flip-flopping or evolving or just trump being flexible, a look at whether conservatives are turning against the president as he changes his stance on topics that he was a defiant candidate on. break through your allergies. try new flonase sensimist instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist

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so now to the new questions being raised about the trump administration's policies after a week of shifts from the president on russia, china and nato and other areas. here is how the white house press secretary sean spicer explained it in his press briefing on thursday. >> what you're referring to as a

shift in a lot of ways, and if you look at what's happened, those entities or individuals in some cases are issues evolving toward the president's position. >> joining us jonathan alter a columnist for "the daily beast." and jillian milcher, senior fellow at the independent women's forum. jillian, your reaction to spicer's reaction? >> i think it's totally predictable if you look at candidate trump, he gave you whiplash, even just his shift on health care alone has been profound. what we're seeing is he's going into it with a perspective of a businessman which is what people liked about him throughout the election. he's not an ideological guy. that's why it really matters who is advising him. it will be interesting to see if

his constituency sticks with him. i think that's the political dynamic, he's going into office as a businessman trying to figure out what works. he's not coming into it with the background and ideology of a political scientist. >> what donald trump would be perceived as is pragmatic to his own success, and embellishing that success, to success breeds success. >> what do you make of sean spicer's statement that people are evolving, does that make sense? >> no. trump is not a political scientists. it's a welcome development because he's recognizing -- in the campaign, you can throw out the red meat. in government you have to deal with mystery meat, subtleties,

complexities, reality. reality is a stubborn thing. he's starting to be confronted with it, the idea that things are not nearly as simple as he thought they were. he said i alone can change it in his convention speech. that was preposterous. he's now learned that. he's learned reacting viscerally to issues from your gut does not really work. >> this is chess, not checkers. paul ryan said we have a lot of learning to do. we were the party of no, this was after health care, we've been the party of no for so long that we don't have the mindset of getting these guys done and getting the ideas through. >> jillian, donald trump's true believers are losing the faith. heidi przybilla and josh barro just on saying no, not really. some people might be doing a double take, but not sitting around the kitchen table saying is china really a currency

manipulator. >> i think we're gearing up for a very interesting midterm election. if you go to red meat america, to the heart lands, i think conservatives are very frustrated, a lot of palpable anger and frustration. you saw the divide with the health law. i think he's playing with fire changing positions. we have the red meat tea party activist i guess branch of the party that took him at his word on many of the things he said during the campaign. i think they will not hesitate to be angry with him. >> do you think that's a problem with the america first stuff and the fact that now the trump administration, they hate certain headlines. a lot of the response to bomb dropping or cyber rattling has been good, but that takes us away from their america first mission on the campaign and puts us in the foreign policy sphere that the steve bannon wing

wanted to avoid. >> this is a fascinating time for the gop. i think we almost have two parties going on right now. trump was able to expand it, bring in constituents from particularly the blue collar labor left. i think there are significant ideological rifts within the party right now. it's being reckoned through trump as this unlikely embodiment of figuring out how that works in governance. the establishment to the tea party riff is what it's going to play out. there's a lot of anger between those two sides. there may be midterm consequences. >> do you think that's going to be the case? there are lots of folks that might not have completely become a republican. they took a chance on donald trump, that he was just part of the surprise party because he's not really a democrat, not really a republican, going to be a surprise. >> first of all, he's way down in the polls, 20 points lower than other presidents at this time in their presidency. he has time to come back and

recover. all presidents do. the problem is he's promised so many unrealistic things that his chances of actually bringing all those jobs back to those areas that he carried are very slim and he's risking people thinking that he's stabbing them in the back, that basically he promised all these things, promised to drain the swamp and then what does he do? he goes and acts like an insider on steroids, not letting anybody see the white house logs, stocking his government with people from goldman sachs. so i think he's really at risk -- at real peril with broad swaths of the republican party. meanwhile, the democrats are the ones energized. >> that's a big deal, to shift away from the transparency of white house logs, although obama did it, there were still requests that journalists had to go after to get items about who

e came through the doors there. this makes it a whole different level, and especially at mar-a-lago as well where the president is spending almost all of his free time, if not at that trump property, at another trump property. >> this is extraordinarily frustrating. as a conservative -- the obama administration kept saying it was the most transparent in history. i have public records requests that took one year, two years, three years. i have some i still haven't heard back on. the visitors logs were one thing that was fairly transparent. to see the trump administration be less transparent in this respect than the obama administration, that should be bipartisanly disturbing. we want transparency in government. it's a bipartisan issue. this is going to make it so much more difficult to hold government accountable. >> it's the people's house. we should know who is coming in and out. great to see you. thank you very much. we have all seen that video

of that united passengers being dragged off the flight. what are your rights and what changes will the outcry over what happened to that passenger and united bring to you when you're purchasing your next ticket. up next, a question one congresswoman asking that's getting lots of attention.

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what happened to my dad should have never happened to any human being. we were completely horrified and shocked at what had happened to my father when we learned of the incident. seeing it on video made those emoti

emotions exacerbated. >> so we have crystal dao pepper saying after her dad dr. david dao forcibly removed from the united airlines flight it was emotional and just capaciexaspi to see the video. the lawyers say they plan on filing a lawsuit. a hearing to preserve evidence set for monday. new today delta air lines says it will offer $10,000 to make it easier for passengers to give up their seats on overbooked flights. joining me now, travel expert and founder of points guy.com. good to have you with me. let's dive into this. health will go as high as 10 grand to get you off if they are overbooked. >> delta has had a much better overbooking policy for years. the difference is delta offers cold hard cash or gift cards, which is something i think the other airlines are going to have to adapt to.

consumers don't want a vouch ee that is for one airline. >> when it comes to the case dr. dao has and hu this is going to unfold, what do you expect he's going to be suing for, the types of damages and also the information that came out that these men that boarded, they were not supposed to be dressed in that type of uniform. they had been asked not to dress like that, to look as if they were some type of officers. >> this was an overbooking. united will try to hide behind the laws of overbooking. this is not an overbooking incident. there's new video saying he was not a belligerent passenger as the united ceo had said. he was very compliant and he was a consumer simply sitting in a seat that he purchased. across the board united bungled this. i have a feeling that the courts

are going to rule in the passenger's favor. >> i think a lot of people, if he had been belligerent people in the background wouldn't have been asking, what are you doing? they would have been applauding for get a jerk off the plane. >> everyone was pretty much crying and going what the heck is going on here. i'm sure chicago aviation police are going to be held liable as well. it's a pretty bad situation for united and the police. >> typically, though, ryan, how have other airlines reacted if a passenger refuse toss give up their seat if there's an overbooking situation and say they can't accommodate a crew to get to other locations. >> this was rare, too. they actually allowed the passenger to board the plane. this happens all the time. most airlines handle this situation before they get on the plane. i've seen it happened where people get moved to the next

flight. they increase compensation and try to make it good for passengers. you know, people do get the short end of the stick all the time. it's very rare to have someone in their seat and try to remove them from the plane. a terrible customer service strategy that i'm sure most airlines after this incident will review those policies. >> five seconds, was dr. dao within his rights as a passenger to refuse to get off. >> i believe he was. there's a bunch of different rules that state why you can be removed from an airplane. having airline employees trump you are not part of that contract of carriage. >> ryan kelly, thank you. appreciate you for joining me today. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you at home. that's going to do it for me. i'm thomas roberts. next on "am joy," maxine waters, love that firebrand. next on msnbc. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced,

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