tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you. hello, i'm sheinelle jones at msnbc headquarters in new york. it's high noon in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west and day 86 of the trump administration. with a new threat from north korea which put on a spectacle of military hardware today and ratcheted up its rhetoric against the u.s., including now word from that country's second in charge that a response from north korea would be all-out war. tax protests in dozens of cities across the country at this hour. demonstrators demanding president trump release his taxes. what else do they want? live reports ahead. and from the white house, new word today on the comings and goings of visitors who are

logged and now officially private. why the secrecy? >> he will lose his base and that's an important message for the president to receive. >> are some of president trump's decisions creating doubts among some of his most ardent supporters? all that right now. we begin with north korean officials threatening to respond with an all-out war and to hit back against a nuclear attack with its own style of nuclear attack. the threats directed at the u.s. were backed up by the optics of a huge military parade in pyongyang to mark the 105th birth anniversary of the grandfather of kim jong-un and founder of north korea. janice mackey frayer is watching all of this for us. >> reporter: sheinelle, with tension extremely high here, there was a massive parade of military hardware in pyongyang. they had promised a big event to mark this important event on the

calendar and it certainly delivered. experts believe there was at least one or as many as three new types of intercontinental ballistic missiles. this is the sort of weaponry that jim kojong unhas threatene will soon be able to reach the united states. the u.s. faces all-out war and annihilation if north korea is attacked. now, all of this has escalated over the past several weeks with speculation north korea was about to carry out a sixth nuclear test or some sort of missile launch. what distinguishes this from past crises is the role of china. china emerging as a broker. the ally of north korea, the country's main economic lifel e lifeline, china is urging both sides to back down before the situation spirals out of control. neither side appears willing to do so at this point. the risk, of course, is that one

small mistake could have terrible consequences. sheinelle. >> that is for sure. all right, thank you. vice president pence now on his way to south korea for an 11-day tour of the pacific. president trump meantime remains in florida at his mar-a-lago estate. kelly o'donnell is with the president in west palm beach. good morning to you, kelly. let's talk about i guess what we know about how the president has been monitoring the situation on the korean peninsula and what advisers are on the ground with him there? >> reporter: well, good to be with you, sheinelle. we know very little in the specifics during this easter holiday weekend. the president is right now at the trump international golf club, one of his properties in this area. we do know that there are members of the white house team with him, but not the most senior members. and when i refer to that, that's a change from some of the weekends and some of the trips where we would see a reince priebus, the chief of staff, or chief strategist steve bannon or senior advisor jared kushner traveling with the president. that's not the case this weekend. however, his mar-a-lago home

does have all the equipment necessary for secure communications back to the white house situation room, to the pentagon, wherever he might need to be in touch with other top advisers or to get briefings on what's happening. so far based on what we've seen out of north korea and as janis laid it out, it was more the ceremonial side of the founders day holiday in north korea and no show of aggression at this point. more broadly, we've seen the president talk about the fact that he believes that north korea can be taken care of in terms of its nuclear ambitions g and its threat especially to the united states but also u.s. partners in the region and he's hoping china will be helpful in that. the president has a new relationship with president xi, says they are getting along well, building a bond and looking to try to work on this together. at the same time, china's foreign minister also raised some caution saying that both north korea and the united states have spoken in ways that

seem to amp up the tensions and the chinese saying that that needs to be carefully minded so that it doesn't turn into something unexpected. so that's what we know at this point. it's relatively quiet for a presidential holiday weekend, but we know at any time that can change. >> all right, kelly o'donnell, nu, kelly. let's go to kevin baron. good afternoon to you. >> hello. >> the military rhetoric continues to escalate with these statements about north korea today. let's listen to mike morell on cbs and then we'll talk. >> we have a new president and kim jong-un is trying to challenge him, is trying to get him back to the negotiating table. remember, barack obama ignored the north koreans for eight years, did not run to the negotiating table every time there was a provocation. kim jong-un wants to get back to a situation where we give them gifts when they do something bad. and then we are also making it

worse with our bluster and my sending aircraft carriers in there, we're raising the crisis. >> kevin, do you agree, are we raising the crisis? >> i'll defer to the deputy cia director. the military often says the last thing they want to do is go into conflict and the hope is to always tamp down tensions. that's what -- we're hearing in the pentagon. there has been an aircraft carrier show and we saw a lineup, what's called an elephant walk of aircraft, fighter jets, bombers, two days ago in japan at the same time. so there's been a little bit of a show of force. more concerning, i think, has frankly been what's coming from the president, from the civilian administration. that's what's different this time around. but it's different for a good reason. the north koreans have in the last eight years gotten closer to miniaturizing a nuclear weapon, putting it on an icbm.

they're not all the way there yet, how close they are depends on which intelligence professional you talk to. but it has, you know, brought everyone to this new boiling point. hopefully we'll get through it. i think we'll get through it. i think the sign that we saw all of those missiles in the parade, if that's all that north korea does, that's a good sign. they didn't launch a test missile. they have not exploded a nuclear device underground yet. but the weekend is not over. hopefully this will be the most we'll see. >> you kind of alluded to this, the north korea focus comes days after the u.s. struck targets in syria and dropped the mother of all bombs in afghanistan. let's listen to what president trump had to say about how that all went down. >> what i do is i authorize my military. we have the greatest military in the world and they have done a job, as usual. so we have given them total authorization and that's what they're doing. and frankly, that's why they have been so successful lately. >> is it danger to give military leaders carte blanche when we're

dealing with a life-and-death situation here? what's your thought on what the president had to say? >> there's a lot of talk about this. we're not hearing enough that we could from the administration's own national security officials and, frankly, from the military. when you have the president saying i'm going to give them total authorization, yeah, that's spooking a lot of people who want to question is he giving up civilian control too much. i think that implies that you would have generals that would do too much frankly. what we do have is this. we have a military that has asked for several months, going way back into the obama administration, for a little bit more flexibility to conduct strikes, to move things around, to do operations around the world. and the thought was by the end of the obama administration, you know, the white house was just too involved in details around the world. that's been chronicled many, many times. so now you have the president saying that he's going to give more authority. the military says this is not new. nothing's changed. the rules of engagement haven't changed. it just means they don't have to boy the prerogative of the

president seek out permissions for so many different things. what people need to be careful of is trying to associate all of the events in the last month or so together into one, you know, conclusion that may not be frankly accurate. yes, there have been civilian casualties, but that's not new. yes, there was a giant bomb in afghanistan. that was pretty new and there's a reason for it and that was ordered farther down the chain of command, not out of the white house. yes, there's north korea. these are three separate events all happening at the same time. >> it's interesting you talked about lumping them today. the president just counted his actions as a success. is he overselling the success? >> possibly. i think there's no surprise donald trump takes credit for things that he wants to take credit for and zips up and doesn't want to take blame for anything. this is a case where if in his mind more aggression and moving the needle a little quicker is what he wanted, that's what he's going to the. i'll stick with the isis war. we expected a counter-isis plan

to come very quickly. the president campaigned saying he was going to do it right away, the generals were wrong. so we had secretary mattis and the top general for the middle east at the pentagon this week in their first press conference together. i asked them where's this new plan? secretary mattis says, look, this has to be very methodical. secretary tillerson just had his meeting on the nonmilitary side of things, which the pentagon is being very patient wanting more out of this administration from. the general on his side said, look, i'm happy with the pace of operations. we knew it was going to be a tough fight once we got this deep into mosul and started to approach raqqah in syria and that's exactly what's happening. he's not complaining about wanting to go faster. that's what we heard the president saying. so where are we now? the president is not asking for a new plan quickly. the old plan is still in the works. the war is moving on. the generals do have a little bit more flexibility to make these operational decisions

without having to run them all the way up the flag pole. how much credit or blame do you want to give to trump for every one of these instances? i think you've got to be careful and we can't automatically say it's all trump's fault or all trump's credit or all the military is bad. you know what i mean? it's a little more complicated than. >> i was on the "today" show and we were asking people on a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being what we don't want, which is a major crisis, an actual conflict with weapons, nuclear weapons, that's a 10. 1 to 10, why are we right now in your opinion? >> on what specifically? >> as far as the scope of being 10 being what we all fear, which is combat? >> for north korea? >> yes. >> oh, i think we're far from that. look, aircraft carriers off the coast is -- if the united states military really wanted to send a message to kim jong-un and the north koreans, it would be a lot more than this. it wouldn't be a message, it would be a strike. >> it would be action. >> it would come from the white house and from the pentagon and

you would see the full mobilization just like you saw at the beginning of the iraq war, just like you saw the first time obama restarted the war in 2013. this is not that. this is not that. these parades in north korea are normal every year. the rhetoric is normal. the north koreans almost weekly say we're going to bomb and we're ready for war. this is normal. we're at a new point but it's not so out of hand. there's not a single general in the pentagon this weekend who wants to spend their easter going to war with north korea. >> the woman in this chair certainly agrees with you and i think a lot of people watching agree as well. kevin, good discussion this afternoon. thank you. >> my pleasure, have a good one. tax day marches are under way in major cities across the country in an effort to pressure the president to release his tax returns. we have our correspondents covering marches up and down the coast. morgan radford is in new york. ally vitaly in washington. let me start in washington. tens of thousands of expected

there today, but the president himself, as you know, is in florida at mar-a-lago. do demonstrators believe this effort will change his mind? >> reporter: we are just getting started up here. we just have our first speaker on stage. we're seeing a thousand or so people gathered. they will eventually be marching from here at the capitol down to trump's hotel. the goal is to protest that trump has not released his tax returns, something that during the campaign a lot of people were saying is a huge break in precedent. some of the senior advisers said we're not going to do it, we won without doing it. their idea being no one cared. no one thought that was a big enough deal to not vote for him. but the people here do feel it's a big deal. jennifer todd, i want to get a sense of what are you hoping to accomplish here? >> well, we're really hoping to accomplish two things.

first, there are marches all across the country, here and abroad, and donald trump should do what he promised and to do what presidents have all done which is release his tax returns. the reason why we're asking for that is because we want to know is this president working for the general public or is he beholden to someone else. people deserve a presidency in the public interest and not one where the president wants to line his own pocket. we didn't elect someone on the friends and family plan. he's supposed to work in the public interest. if we see those tax returns we can learn a lot more, including whether he has serious ties and debts to russia, for example, and whether he is continually violating the emoluments clause. the second thing is a much bigger issue which is really about taxes. this is the traditional tax day and all of us pay our taxes. that is money that is supposed to be used in the public

interest. we want to make sure everyone is paying their fair share and that will go to the tax reform discussion but also we care about where the money is going to. we don't want money spent on endless wars. >> sometimes you talk about him having an america first agenda. so they want to make sure that the agenda matches with what the public at large expects. >> ali, thank you. we'll continue to check in with you. let's go to atlanta where we find maya rodriguez. organizers were expecting a couple of thousand people. what are you seeing? >> reporter: organizers were expecting a couple thousand people but that is not the case at this point. maybe 200, 250 people out here right now for this rally, again with a march still to come. this of course is an effort that's taking place in cities across the country and even around the world trying to pressure president trump to release some of his tax returns. we do have some first-time

people who are here at the rallies and also some veterans who are here at these rallies. joining us now is janice hull. thank you for joining us this afternoon. tell us, why did you decide to come out here today? >> well, i think it's important that we continue to fight against injustice. i think the tax thing is really huge because we have no idea who he owes money to, especially i'm concerned about this russian connection. i think there is absolutely something to that. releasing his tax returns would show us a lot. who he owes money to, who he's beholden to, so i think it's just an important day. >> reporter: in the end, what are you hoping that all of these rallies across the country accomplish? >> well, i hope it will accomplish getting people to the polls to vote in this next election in the midterms. i think if we can keep this momentum up, that we can make a difference in washington and make a change. >> reporter: thank you for

joining us. again, here a couple hundred people. we have a march getting ready to start in the next hour. that march will take place at 1:00. it will go in a two-mile route around this area. sheinelle. >> maya rodriguez and we'll check in with all three of you throughout the show. thank you, guys. still ahead, white house drama. who will stay, who might go? can we believe reports that steve bannon could be sidelined? if he goes, could he cause problems for the white house? that's ahead. break through your allergies. try new flonase sensimist instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist i'm not a customer, but i'm calling about that credit scorecard. give it. sure! it's free for everyone. oh! well that's nice!

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local headlines at 20 past the hour. the trump administration taking new steps to lay out its policies to allies in asia. vice president mike pence on his way to south korea this morning as part of an 11-day trip to asia amid rising tensions with north korea. meanwhile the white house pushing back on criticism after

rolling back an obama precedent of releasing most visitor logs. the white house says grave national security risks and security concerns prompted them to keep these records private. democrats are ramping up their calls for president trump to release his tax returns ahead of tuesday's filing deadline. some lawmakers, including congresswoman maxine waters, are walking in several tax marches being held throughout the country. here's what she told joy reid this morning. >> people all over this country are filling out their taxes. they're trying to do the right thing. middle class people are paying 30%, 35% taxes. some of us believe that donald trump is not paying any taxes. he's taken advantage of all of the loopholes. he knows all of the tricks. we need to know who it looks like, who he owes, what kind of debt he has, and again, what kind of possible conflicts of interest. also new today, a warning

for president trump from one of his key supporters in congress on the issue of immigration. here's congressman steve king in an interview last night. >> i am not at the level of being happy with so far what donald trump has done. he's done some good things and seems to have put a lot of good things in place but daca and dapa still exist. every day you don't address this, it gets harder and harder to see. his base is starting to get uneasy. they're not confident on the wall but the messages are clear out white house, we'll build a wall. >> joining me now is jay newton small contributor to "time" magazine and jesse burns, associate editor at the hill. jay, we'll start with you. is president trump losing the base? >> there's certainly things they're clearly worried about. i've spoken to some voters who say that they were concerned

particularly about the billionaire cabinet. what they really enjoy is this disruption. they see him as shaking things up with the courts, shaking things up with congress, and every time he gets into these tussels, even if he loses, they still see him as disrupting washington so he's still got the base there. >> jesse, it seems president trump has changed position on a number of issues. take a listen and then we'll talk. >> i'll tell you about nate oh it's obsolete and we're paying too much money. i said it was obsolete. it's no longer obsolete. they are grand masters of currency manipulation. president xi wants to do the right thing. we had a very good bonding. >> you know, jesse, it's not just nato and china, he's taken a much harder line on russia. how do you account for these changes and is there concrete policy behind these changes? >> yeah, i mean it's a good reel right there. it was amazing earlier this week on one day president trump flipping on four issues. another one being the

export-import bank, now saying that it serves a purpose. it's hard to see how some of these issues -- of course a lot of trump supporters are not following each of these, every wrinkle of them. but some of these big issues, capitulating away from russia and speaking more warmly of china and looking at china as a bigger ally on some of these issues like north korea than russia going after isis, that is a big change from what we saw throughout the campaign. how it affects trump's base overall, it's hard to see that alienating them in general. but i think you're going to continue to see people like steve king on issues like immigration come out and criticize trump openly if they think he is veering too far away from his campaign promises. >> on that note, jay, there has been some conservative backlash from some of the president's most ardent campaign supporters. do you think the president is listening or is fazed by it or is he just moving ahead with what he thinks in this moment is the right thing to do?

>> trump is definitely a man that seems to be driven by his own gut and moves ahead with whatever he wants to do. a lot of the signals are really confusing. for example, just this week with the ex-im bank, he came out for it which is a flip flop from his campaign where he said he was against it. this is something conservatives say is a waste of government money but at the same time he appointed at the head of it a guy who wanted to dismantle it and get rid of it, a former member. freedom caucus. so the signals are really mixed. i think a lot of people are waiting to see what actually happens down the road, where the policy shakes out and where he finally comes down, because he sort of takes one step forward, one step back and it's hard to see which way he's going to go ultimately. >> jesse, another headline that follows from trump's changing positions, one about so-called palace intrigue. steve bannon reportedly being sidelined for more moderate voices in the west wing, but not fired. is he too dangerous to fire or what do you know? >> well, yeah, i think with

steve bannon, it's not just steve bannon, i think a lot of democrats would like to see the person himself go but it's what he represents. for a lot of people, a lot of conservatives, trump supporters that were excited about his entrance into the white house, they viewed him as a person to shake things up, much like the president himself. so if he were to depart or go to a different position, that would not remove necessarily what he represents. so trump supporters, maybe they would let him go and they could forgive the president for letting him go but it's what he represents. that kind of outsider mentality. even this week with all the different about-faces that we saw with the president, that is concerning for trump allies that think maybe he's coming more into the fold of rain stremains republicans, mainstream democrats instead of what he campaigned on of shaking up the status quo. >> when it comes to bannon, jay, how do you think this will shake

up ultimately? do you think bannon will be on his way out or no? >> i've also heard from some people that there is a fear that bannon -- there could be backlash from breitbart, so bannon was the former chair of breitbart news and is seen as a real sort of still very active in that news service. that is a very conservative obviously news service but a very powerful one that a lot of the alt-right and right wing groups listen to and look to. if he gets fired from the white house, there is a fear that there could be backlash and breitbart would declare war on donald trump and go after him, which would further split the party, especially at a time when trump is coming back and saying, oh, we're friends with the freedom caucus, we love the freedom caucus and trying to make amends with that wing of the party. ousting bannon would be a step backwards to this efforts. >> you can't write this stuff. thank you both for talking with me on this saturday. have a good weekend. president trump's 180 on russia. the rhetoric now dramatically different. is he doing this to deflect questions of collusion?

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welcome back. i'm sheinelle jones here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. at the half hour, here's what we're watching. in cities all across the country today, protesters are marching to demand the release of the president's tax returns. in fact you're looking at live pictures of protests. we have them in new york city, in chicago, in washington, d.c., and west palm beach. in fact these are one of -- i think four of 150 other marches in cities all across the u.s. and abroad. let's go to morgan radford in new york's bryant park. morgan, there's been no sign whatsoever that the president will comply with the tradition and release his returns. still, look at that crowd. >> reporter: well, we don't know yet but this crowd is hoping so. they're out here saying, look, it's april 15th, it's tax day and we want to see your tax returns. we have about 15,000 people who responded to come to this march. it starts at 1:00 p.m. here in

bryant park and we're ultimately walking 10 to 20 blocks north ending up at trump tower. but their message is saying, look, you are a public figure and so it is your responsibility to provide a public account for your contribution to this country. as immigrants, as every day working people, we have to show our taxes so why shouldn't you have to show yours. i want to introduce you to teresa. you've been part of this helping to volunteer. why are you out here today? >> we're outhere paubecause we' upset donald trump hasn't released his taxes. we started planning this march after the women's march. he has to release his taxes to show the corruption and where his money is. >> reporter: we're hearing lots of people like teresa saying we want to see your records because we want to know if there's something more nefarious at play. do you have connections that are improper with foreign entities with all the talk around russia and do you have financial conflicts of interest. sheinelle, interestingly, i've covered a lot of these protests and this is one of the most

creative protests i've seen. look at this, millionaire or fraud? release your taxes. then you got the birth certificate, now give us your taxes. a lot of people here reminding us that president trump led the charge against president obama for his birth certificate and now they're saying now it's time for you to show your records as well. >> it's interesting, morgan, you just mentioned you've covered so many protests right here on saturday mornings. can you put the crowd in perspective? it's hard to gauge from -- we're just watching you and the people around you. how large is it? >> reporter: come do a little 360 with me, sheinelle. these are people who are waiting here on the side, on the steps. if you turn around here you can see the stage. you're looking right now at about 400 people who have gathered but just to give you a sense of things, of this 400, we're expecting to see about 15,000 because remember, sheinelle, this march wasn't even started so we're expecting to see a lot more as they end up at trump tower. >> we'll continue to check in

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happening across the country right now, tax day marches and protests of president trump's failure to release his tax returns. you're looking live at marches all across the country today, in washington, d.c., here in new york city. we'll continue to monitor these marches and bring you live reports throughout the afternoon. to moscow now, where there is more reaction today on recent u.s. military action. the foreign minister says the u.s. is hampering peace efforts in syria. let's go to nbc's lucy cavanaugh who's in moscow with the very latest. lucy. >> reporter: sheinelle, good morning. the russians here continuing to take a tough, strong line towards the u.s. over that chemical weapons attack that

killed 90 people. sergey lavrov today again calling for an independent investigation into that attack. russia does not believe in the evidence presented so far by the u.s. that suggests the syrian government carried out that attack. russia has previously suggested it may have been the rebels, that in fact they could have even staged the attack, staged the victims. certainly not the message that we're hearing from the international community. but sergey lavrov this morning said that the current investigators, and i quote him, have been acting somewhat secretively. he didn't elaborate on what he meant by that but he said more transparency was necessary in order for this investigation to take place before syria and russia could get behind that. this comes on the heels of those tri-lateral talks in moscow on friday between mr. lavrov and his russian and iranian counterparts. the three countries speaking with one voice, a show of force,

rejecting again the allegations that this was a chemical weapons attack pby the government and warning the united states against any further military action in syria. washington, of course, has not ruled out the possibility of further strikes but one thing the u.s. attack did change was shift the dynamic, the power of balance between moscow and washington. for years now it's been -- the name of the game has been unpredictability on the part of the russians. the president here, vladimir putin, might act out in countries like ukraine. he might act out in crimea, syria, and washington is the one scrambling to react. now the tables have been shifted. moscow is on the back foot not sure what to predict next from the trump administration and that does change the power of balance here. one thing that we have seen, one positive development between the u.s. and russia, that hotline, that the two countries have established, in order to

coordinate the flights that are taking place over syria to avert any disaster. after the u.s.ary strikes in syria, mr. putin cancelled that hotline and now it is back on. that is a good move. nobody wants to see a further escalation of that conflict in syria so that is one positive development in a time of very difficult tensions. i want to bring in the editor and chief at the foreign desk. good afternoon to you. >> hi, sheinelle. >> let's start with the russian foreign minister, sergey lavrov, saying the u.s. strike hampers peace efforts. which is interesting because it doesn't seem like peace efforts are even viable at this point and haven't been for quite some time. what's your take on the peace efforts? >> so of course the russians are going to deny everything. they're saying that the u.s. evidence is not enough and they're going to do a private investigation. obviously they got together with the iranians and the syrians over the weekend to discuss this and they have been caught red

handed. the bottom line to all the american public watching this is whatever happened before the april 4th chemical attacks was happening before april 4th and is still going on right now. so it's really -- it's a wake-up call to all of us whether -- it's a nonpartisan issue. it's a humanitarian crisis for seven years we've turned away. and now what is the right answer? that's what i think a lot of people, whether it's washington and the trump administration, whether it's democrats who are pushing and questioning trump on his russian involvement, what is the right question going forward and what's the best move for our national security, for the syrians and the children and civilians caught in the middle of all of this. it's such a nuanced situation going on in the ground and there was no peace effort in sight. there was no way that the obama administration with john kerry pushing for a cease-fire, pushing for some sort of truce with his russian counterpart, there's no way that they could have come to some sort of agreement when we were on opposite sides of that fight going on on the ground in syria.

>> lisa, the president left open the door for improved relations, if you will, but we've recently seen a dramatic change. listen. >> right now we're not getting along with russia at all. we may be at an all-time low in terms of relationship with russia. this is built for a long period of time. it would be a fantastic thing if we got along with putin and if we got along with russia. that could happen and it may not happen. >> if we zoom in on the russia issue here, a complete 180. it almost feels like it's an intentional effort, some people believe, to deflect from the russia collusion narrative. that headline almost dropped off the front pages after all of this. what should we take? >> on the one hand, journalist to journalist, you know the american attention span especially in the media is very short, so that's happened. it's definitely become back seat to everything else going on. but is this political theater? perhaps. but also, could it be taking into account all the other

foreign policy changes that we've seen with the trump administration regarding nato, coming out regarding north korea, this week i reported on the u.s. putting sanctions again on iran, but focusing on human rights on their prison system. so again, a slap on the wrist for the chinese. he walked back a lot of that very harsh rhetoric from his campaign. could it be that reality is dictating policy? perhaps. i think the only answer here is to give it a chance and to say, look, we've been wanting to press the russians. now, let it not be is trump trying to distract us, but let us not be distracted by the realities that are going on. let us not be distracted and wait for another video to come out about the children of syria but to keep our eyes on what's going on around the globe. and post partisan, nonpartisan issues that we should all agree on when it comes to our national security. that's the unfortunate thing that we're seeing in the first 100 days of the trump presidency. there are issues that we have to come to terms with that we don't

know what the best way forward is and we have to give it a chance to see what do we want in syria? what is the best outcome for the united states and syria? if assad stays, we have the iranians and the russian influence growing. if assad goes, we run the risk of isis and al qaeda and the e gige jihadis growing. do we want the shiites there or the sunnis there? so far we haven't had a true stand in either direction. >> a lot of americans watching don't know the answers to those questions. lisa, thank you for talking with me today. democrats turning against one of their own. was it the right thing to do? and what's in it for north korea to provoke a global super power like the u.s.? you don't let anything

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next, how concerned republicans really are with the president's low of approval ratings. anything, text me. do you play?

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well, i think he's learning

the job. i think president trump is learning the job. some of the things that were said during the campaign, i think he now knows simply aren't the way things ought to be. >> senate majority leader mitch mcconnell on the shifts in policy the president made this week. let's bring in elise jordan, a columnist for "time" and a former rand paul campaign advisor and peter emerson who's worked for three democratic administrations. good afternoon to both of you guys. i'll start with you, elise. was mcconnell right, were some of these shifts inevitable? >> well, i think that republican leadership is starting to feel a little bit more reassured that president trump is learning on the job. that as he is learning the enormity of some of the policy issues that are out there, that he has shifted some of his, you know, more out there positions, such as wanting to label china a currency manipulator and then after meeting with the chinese president and meeting with

advisers who have counselled him on the issues at stake with china, he suddenly has abandoned that position. >> peter, let me let you listen to how sean spicer explained it in his press briefing on thursday. >> respectfully, i think you can look at what you're referring to as a shift in a lot of ways. if you look at what's happened, it's those entities or individuals in some cases or issues evolving towards the president's position. >> what do you make of that? >> what i make of is we're not dealing with a politician, we're not dealing with a conservative, we're not dealing with a republican, we're not dealing with anyone who's got an ideological base or world view. we're dealing with a businessman. in some ways almost a warlord, which is a whole theory of leadership. he's found that it's been a very, very profitable in the business world to be unpredictable. and he's finding to some degree that it puts our allies and even our, quote, enemies off balance. >> is that a good thing right now?

a lot of people like that. >> i think it can be. there's a very high risk with that. but there's no doubt that he's broken up the dance that we've all been in with, i mean the united states, russia, china, syria, we've been in this dance for decades. he's going to change the dance steps. it's always awkward, it can have high risk. but in some areas, it may prove to be profitable and good. >> you use that analogy of a businessman. you think when a new boss comes into a company and people don't know what to expect and they may like you one day and not the next. what are we, day 85, 86, how long that can continue before you figure out the pattern, or maybe there won't be. >> you've really seen the rotating cast of musical chairs in the white house, who's up, who's down, people are following the palace intrigue with bated breath, is steve bannon going to survive, who is on top right now. but the underlying instability is dangerous for president trump

because it means if people are so concerned about their jobs, their face time, their proximity, they aren't working on implementing policy and selling that policy to congress so he has deliverables to show. >> let me show this -- go ahead. >> i was just going to add. i think we're seeing a shift in the white house. it's not just the bannon wing, it's this populist alt-right, breitbart, all these folks are giving way to the family, to the loyalists, and that family, of which you can never, ever draw blood from family, is also giving way to some more of the conservative ideologues that i think will serve trump better than the sort of day-to-day whimsies of bannon. >> look at this article from politico. it unpacks some of these policy shifts. it says, quote, donald trump's true believers are losing the faith. hmm, is president trump hurting his base by changing course on issues like china trade like you were just talking about? these are -- especially when you

consider this america first doctrine. do you think they'll go with him on that? >> president trump was elected as an ideology-free president. he is really the first president that is so devoid of having a firm set of beliefs that people can go back to when he's making his decisions. his base will tolerate this for a bit because his support is so strong. he's got that ceiling of 30%, 35% of people with him. i think he's got to room to daef yat and test and see how he can bring in democrats and get things done in washington, which is ultimately what his supporters really want. >> and he's done, like other presidents have but keeping in mind i consider him a warlord. he lost the big domestic battle with the enemies. now he's pivoting to the external enemies and we're all talking about everything outside of the united states right now. he wins with that. >> well, you mentioned some numbers here. look at his approval ratings.

president trump's approval rating is 39%. that's statistically the same as his approval rating last month so i'm wondering how concerned republicans are by this so early in the term or maybe they aren't at all. i don't know. >> i still think it's so early to be looking at the approval ratings and think that it's genuinely meaningful. i think that he has a lot of latitude with his supporters. i think he's a very hugely divisive figure. i just wouldn't see where he could make very many gains without a more conciliatory tone, which he is shown he isn't necessarily going to take. >> and let's remember, the polls had hillary clinton winning. >> that is very true. i thought about that when i was looking at these polls. any article these days talks about how we reexpe-examine how look at polls. democrats are turning against one of their own. we talked about tulsi gabbard after she said she was skeptical the assad regime was responsible for the chemical attack.

why condemn her, though, what's the point? >> a couple of reasons. there's a history here, more recently in the bay area where some democrats and couple of donors decided to exert their egos and threw out a very good democratic congressman and replaced them with a newer democratic congressman. tulsi gabbard has been going around talking about taking on a great hawaiian senator, who's the junior senator. there's no reason to go against her, that's partly it. and elise has mentioned to me that in fact there may be some other connections that you might want to -- >> well, it's interesting. she met back during the transition with steve bannon at trump tower, and people -- there's a lot of speculation about this meeting because she and steve bannon are like-minded on foreign policy. she's an iraq war vet. she's been a very strong advocate for less intervention. so part of her taking this trip to syria, there's been reporting that she was sent to negotiate

somewhat with assad and pull him in. no one really knows what kind of free lancing diplomacy was actually going on. as we've seen, the trump administration certainly does love to send out random envoys, like erik prince to the seychell seychelles. >> we'll have to leave it there. thank you for talking with me. happy easter. still ahead, gathering around the nation. the message thousands are sending president trump about his taxes. these are live looks all around the country. we'll have more coming up at the top of the hour. are allergies holding you back? break through your allergies. try new flonase sensimist instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist you may not even notice. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. break through your allergies. new flonase sensimist

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