welcome back to "the point."

i am ari melber in new york. it's easter sunday, and a ceasefire appears to be holding in trump's west wing. there are no firings to report, though there is new documentation that the president himself might want to put out some warning shots. "vanity fair" giving the feud "game of thrones" treatment saying no one is indispensable. a senior administration official says bannon is capable of playing him self the hero. the reality iss , if he keeps ts up, he won't be here. trump aides are working hard to dislodge his public persona as the only rightful keeper of the flame of trump's populism. the same story writing white house aides boosting senior adviser stephen miller arguing he is the true old-school trump figure in the white house. even if miller has spent less time o air after the allegations of voter fra that he made baselessly on sunday talk shows in "vanity fair" sara

ellison writes miller is growing in importance because he is liked and respected by everyone according to a senior official in a comment that made me realize, she said, miller was being saved even as bannon is being savaged. he is the true keeper of the policy at the white house and has been for some time. if you thought supreme court justices were the only people with lifetime tenure, think again. ivanka trump and jared kushner in a big "new york times" story reporting on their rising power with kushner saying the family can be hired but never fired. mr. kushner stays calm when others are afraid by mr. trump's explosive temper. during the campaign he reminded his father-in-law, four people could not be fired himself and the three trump siblings. the fighting took center stage on last night's "saturday night live." >> person who will stay on as my

top adviser is jared. [ applause ] >> steve, this is good-bye. take him back to hell. >> incredible. incredible. all right. bringing in msnbc political analyst and former obama administration diplomat and our in-house bannon specialist and columnist mike tomaski. kirk. what do you think about this evolution and what does it say about donald trump who has been willing to remove people, his campaign manager, chris christie, other big folks, that he's clearing trying to split the difference with steve rather than boot him? >> i think, if anything, it kind

of reveals that trump's philosophy about staff is more like a toddler in terms of picking a favorite toy on the shelf, staying with it for a week or a few weeks and then putting the toy back and going after a new one that's shinier and more fun. if anything trump is guided by self-interest and success. i have said this before. failure is an orphan and success has a thousand fathers. john f. kennedy said that. why is everyone stealing quotes today? >> fact check. >> he stole it from somebody else. >> somebody else. all right. sounds like that quote has a thousand fathers. go ahead, kurt. i. >> wasn't complaining ownership of the quote. i've just said it on msnbc before. without question. it's a good quote. good writers borrow, great writers steal, it's said. with the failure of obamacare repeal and replace.

the court situations, some of the executive orders put in place early by the trump administration. the racking up the failures created a necessity for trump to pivot, have someone to blame and refocus to try to build as he heads into the 100-day milestone marker. >> did bannon misplay this? >> absolutely. from when he put himself on the cover of "time" magazine and intimating he was the brain of donald trump. >> great photo. >> when you do that and move yourself so far up front, particularly with a boss who puts so much value on being on the covers of magazines and has such an identity based upon press coverage. when you put yourself in those positions you're doing so at the detriment of what makes your boss tick. >> mike, i wonder if an environment where donald trump is routinely criticized by a large segment of the population, with good reason, i wonder if there is a reflexive jolt

sometimes to look at this negatively when it might be positive. wouldn't you want a president to look at the portfolio of aides and, if steve bannon was in charge of the travel ban and the sequel to travel ban, the sequel by the courts felt the same way about and was in charge of sort of the health care thing, we'll just make them do it. newspapers accounts saying he told the members of congress, you're just going to do this and they told him no and we saw how it worked out, wouldn't it be potentially constructive for a president to react by diminishing his role? >> of course. that's what a president should do. it wouldn't necessarily be potentially constructive to give all those things and the middle east and iraq and a lot of other things to jared kushner which is essentially what's happened. diminish bannon but give everything to kushner is kind of weird and stokes the rivalry between the two of them. i guess kushner is unfiable in

a sense. >> the hdlines are up. state department is not just dealing with china. jared kushner is. acting as super secretary of state. "washington post" saying he has a singular and untouchable role in the white house. you are saying, as a matter of governance and accountability that's problematic for someone who is not only untrained. and is also not in any diplomatic or military chain of command. it's not clear where kushner actually fits in. >> yeah. you know, how much do we think jared kushner really knows about iraq, about military operations? >> who are you asking? i would say a tiny bit. a tiny, tiny bit. >> i am asking your viewers rhetorically, though. agreed. let's quickly flag, before i yield the floor, coming up the potential government shutdown. i don't know who will be in charge of that for trump but that's a real threat. that's -- if there is a shutdown that's not going to work out well for him. >> one thing i would say, ari, about the in-house kind of family business is, when

diplomats -- american diplomats go around the world one of the things we talk about are this rule of law, anti-corruption. anti-nepotism. these are countries where -- i mean, the president of azerbaijan named his wife as vice president recently. we are always arguing against this. our system is a system of meritocracy, experts, as a contrast to what they're doing. one of the things that this trump in-house family gathering does is undermine the arguments we make for democracies for countries to evolve. that's something i see as a problem going forward in all kinds of ways. >> mike, what do you think is the policy cost of that? if you say the family's rising power is not the wayo deal with bannon's failures? >> i think there are a lot of poteial policy costs to that. what kind of relationships does jared kushner have on capitol hill, for example? what kind of respect does he engender on capitol hill among the staffs of paul ryan and mitch mcconnell. i don't know the answer to that

question. i have my guesses about it. but, you know, there is going to be trouble between the white house and the republicans in congress too. already has been. but, you know, i don't see that getting better. >> curt, i read that steve bannon keeps a personal publicist which is somewhat unusual though many people in washington obviously track their press standing. we're looking as i am speaking with you at trump arriving, walking down the steps of air force one on easter sunday. they had released some photos of him and melania celebrating holiday there joined by family. descending air force one. he looks, of course, to be headed into the vehicle. we will let you know if we see anything newsworthy come out of that as he is heading home. curt, what do you make of that aspect of bannon and whether that's unusual or cut him a break because of the way washington is? >> i think it's incredibly unusual for the senior strategist who works inside the white house, who is on the federal government payroll, to

have an outside representative as a pr person. i think it just, if anything, you know, creates the impression that you are running your own agenda when you have your own team outside of the chain of command within the white house structure operating on your behalf who knows what you share with this person, who knows what that person, in turn, shares on the record, off the record, on background with other reporters, is this person your source for stories coming out, stoking the flames of the rivalry with mr. cu kushner. i think it's highly unusual and makes the target on steve bannon's back even bigger. >> the full trump family making their exit, here. rick, a nice holiday moment. you don't always see all of them together. a wider group of aides, and i think i spotted a dog. i think we have a dog on camera. there was a dog. >> every white house needs a dog. >> what did fdr say since we're doing quotable sundays.

you want a friend in the white house, get a dog. the landings sometimes are over fairly quickly and here we are seeing a large representation of the family as well as aides and military folks on this holiday weekend. your final thought on where it goes. if trump wants to make another shakeup, the "new york times" reporting on, you can't be fired, is, okay, what happens when you need another reset and you're surrounded by family members? >> at the risk of sounding like a government wonk, process makes policy at the white house. one of the things about mr. kushner being in there, he has to learn about this. the d.c. pc process. the principals' committee's process, these are the way to learn about these things to disrupt the exrts, i would hope jared kushner wants to learn from those experts. >> you raise the point that you know about because it's some of your former stomping grounds and colleagues some of the experts are not in the building because

they haven't been hired as we mentioned in the segment last hour. a lot of room for improvement is the positive way to buput it. up next, the other big issue that's plagued this white house and is not going away, the russia inquiry. mixed messages from the administration. the president saying it's all good. the secretary of state describing the relationships as much, much worse. and the hacking leads. the panel is here to break it down next. isn't it time to let the real you shine through? introducing otezla, apremilast. otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. some people who took otezla saw 75% clearer skin after 4 months. and otezla's prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression.

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now with xfinity's my account, you can figure things out easily, so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you nto pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount welcome back. the russia story continuing to dominate the trump white house. is the complex foreign policy chess game when their involvement in syria, the hacking inquiry into the links between trump campaign associates and the russian government or its affiliates. two big developments this weekend. first, the "washington post" reporting a fisa court found there was probable cause to believe carter page was acting

as an agent as a foreign power. the clearest evidence of trump campaign ties to russia. page is talking though he is not saying much. >> who brought you into the trump campaign and what did you do for them? >> george, i don't talk about that because there are always various conspiracy theories that anyone i work with -- >> that's a pretty innocent fact. who brought you into the campaign. >> i don't want people's lives disrupted. >> another primary player in the russia inquiry. paul manafort, who received $1.2 million. not denying it. he says his firm receives legitimate payments. the house investigation ramping up this week following what might be the manafort money trail. democratic congress mike quigley conducting interviews, collecting documents all in the mediterranean island of cyprus. he says he went there because that's where russia has people

who launder money. quigley not revealing yet what he may have learned. joininme now joyce vce, formal prosecutor and sean henry. chief investigative correspondent at yahoo and daily beast's mike tomasky. michael, starting with you, this story was intensifying each week of the trump presidency but to, i would say, casual viewers over the past week and a half, everything has been foreign policy. what do you see as what i just ran through and how it relates to any progress in the open inquiry? >> it's hard to say. certainly the carter page disclosure of the fisa warrant is significant. i reported last september that there was a u.s. intelligence investigation of page's ties to the -- i page's ties to the kremlin and whether that involved communications involving the trump campaign.

so it shouldn't be a shock that, if there was an intelligence investigation at that time, that there was a fisa warrant. but this doesn't really tell us the core issues about collaboration or collusion because carter page was doing business deals on his own in russia before he went to the trump campaign. he had investments in gas, ties to various figures in the kremlin. so this could have grown out as much of his side business deals as it might have related to the trump campaign. we just don't know. >> let me get you to break that down. you put an important point on it there. is the theory of the case as investigators move forward that he was a stooge being taken advantage of by russian agents, that he was a mole working potentially on the advice or interest of a foreign power but a mole inside the campaign or that he was a criminal collaborator and had more

support up the line inside the campaign. mike isikoff? >> it could be any or all of the above or a partial, one of those. we don't know. we haven't seen what the basis for the fisa warrant is. we do know that there were serious allegations about this during the campaign. and it is a little puzzling that more people didn't pick up on this while it was happening. after my story in september, you may remember carter page came out swinging, denying everything. but then disclosed that he was taking a leave of absence from the campaign and the trump campaign began distancing itself from him. that could have been because they were concerned about -- >> yeah. but i want to bring in the other folks. joyce, looking at it from a pos c prosecutorial perspective. >> it is murky and might be

premature to begin guessing at charges, but one truism that always applies in prosecutions is that it is always the coverup. and so whatever the underlying substantive crime, whether it was something as severe as treason or a fraud, one thing we can tell from the way the events have involved is there will be aspects of the coverup charge, whether it's perjury, obstruction of justice. false statements. look for an indictment containing those types of charges. >> sean henry. when the fbi is engaged in something like this that has so much public interest, what kind of process do they use when they're dealing with politically sensitive investigations, and do they care about a time line? are they thinking with the mid-terms, presidential election. or if this takes four years, as their view, so be it. >> this is the type of investigation that will be very thorough. there are a lot of political

sensitivities, obviously, and the bureau will be looking at a whole host of evidence. we talked about the reported fisa the "washington post" talked about. i haven't seen anybody from the government claim that that's actually occurred. something that that would mean the burrow eau is putting a lot resources into this and recognizes it as a significant event obviously. i don't think they'll be driven by false time lines. as joyce described, if some of the violations related to foreign registration, some type of collusion or espionage, something of that nature, it will take many months, i imagine. one of the challenges i see here is how they may coordinate with the house and/or senate intelligence investigations because you have got multiple people who are chasing down facts. this will require, likely, people going overseas, international, lots of witness interviews, the review of documents. you alluded to chasing the money. how do you follow the money.

lots of moving parts, and something that i think will be somewhat long-term, ari. >> witness interviews. joyce, what's different than a typical investigation is you have concurrent public witness interviews on television. listen to carter page under the interrogation of george stephanopoulos on the sanctions issue, which is so legally important because it's the kind of thing that could under mine a federal law. here is the clip. >> snds like from what you are saying it's possible you m have discussed the easing of sanctions. >> something may have come up. i have no recollection and there is nothing specifically i would have done to give people that impression. >> you can't say without equivo equation you didn't discuss the easing of sanctioning. >> someone may have brought it up but if it was it wasn't something i was offering or someone was asking for. >> what do you think of that witness statement, joyce?

>> a defense lawyer would never let his client go on television and make that type of a statement. that's what prosecutors like to call a prior inconsistent statement. if evidence comes to light that he was in fact involved in these sorts of things in a more willful or deliberate way than he acknowledges then we're looking at, i think, very good evidence that can be used whether we're talking about the congressional investigation or federal prosecutors to establish willful misconduct. >> mike, you've covered more than one legally tinged political scandal in washington. what do you think of the, i guess, baffling conduct of these individuals? i mean, we are under a hundred days in and you have carter doing the repeat media tours. you have this dramatic letter from flynn's lawyer saying he has a story to tell. then you have manafort with the drip, drip, drip. where does this rank on your scandal meter? >> it's defitely top ten.

maybe with bullet. i think sean is right that this will take a long time. it's a complicated investigation. it will seem for a week, three weeks, maybe a month like it's receded into the background but during that time the fbi is still working, the senate and house investigators are still working so something is going on. when somebody decides they want to leak something they'll leak it, and it will move the story forward. underpinning all of that, the periods of silence and periods of activity will be the hard truth for the white house that 65% of the american public, 66, 69 in polls i have seen, believe something really fishy went on here during the campaign, that the campaign probably did collude with russia through the kremlin to some degree for another in some way. i don't know if it will ever be frov proven, but the fact that the suspicion is so widespread means

it will hover and bother the white house for a long time. >> it's not going away. there may be a news related reprieve because other things are happening but as long as you have the drip, drip, drip plus the inquiries and the senate side investigation which we haven't really touched on. mike varner says to voters he views that probe as the most important thing i have ever done. >> right. but worth -- worth noting that we're three months into this and we have yet to see a single bpoena from the senate. we have yet to see a single witness interview of a key fact witness such as carter page, such as paul manafort, such as michael flynn. you do have to wonder at some point -- i know they want to be methodical. but there is an advantage to bringing people before them, subpoenaing their e-mails, subpoenaing their -- any memos carter page wrote, his phone records, all those are the kinds

of things that could help to unravel this mystery and we haven't seen either the house or senate going there. >> if they had him under oath they could even ask him who brought him onto the trump campaign. one of those open questions. thank you all. i appreciate it. up next, as always, i will take a moment out of our show to open up my inbox to you guys. send your questions to ari @msnbc.com for next week's show and tweet us always @#thepoint. we read and write back. -i would. -i would indeed. well, let's be clear, here. i'm actually a deejay. ♪ [ laughing ] no way! i have no financial experience at all. that really is you? if they're not a cfp pro, you just don't know. find a certified financial planner professional who's thoroughly vetted at letsmakeaplan.org. cfp. work with the highest standard.

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welcome back to "the point." ari's inbox. kathleen asked whatever happened to all the women who were supposedly sexually attacked by trump? nbc news compiled the list of 15 women who have accused trump of some kind of inappropriate conduct. touching, kissing or sexual assault. one of them has an active def faci defamation suit. the supreme court ruled in 1997 there is no precedent to ge e president immunity from lawsuits or unofficial acts in

the federal ctext. our next question from cindy sanders asking, is there any offense that cannot be pardoned by a president. the only limit to the offenses are that those in the constitution are, quote, offenses against the u.s. that's pretty broad. the crime committed would be federal, not a state crime. other than that, we don't really see a limit. the final question from anne on twitter. are executive orders automatically the law, or do they have to go through congress? executive orders are just like they sound, executive presidential action. they don't have the force of a law from congress but don't have to go through congress either. it's the president who basically instructs the federal agencies on how to use resources or take other executive actions in his unitary power if it's an appropriate executive order. those are the questions in my inbox. thanks for writing. e-mail me at ari @msnbc or tweet

me at #thepoint. coming up, paranoia in politics. president trump has historically low approval ratings right now but unwavering support from his base even after some say there are a string of broken promises. why? do the promises really matter? the answer could surprise you and that's straight ahead. discover card. customer service! ma'am. this isn't a computer... wait. you're real? with discover card, you can talk to a real person in the u.s., like me, anytime. wow. this is a recording. really? no, i'm kidding. 100% u.s.-based customer service.

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donald trump's approval ratings are historically low. that is a fact. a low of 36%, which he hit earlier than any other modern president. it's no secret his base loves him. consider this. trump had 89% approval from republicans on his first week in office. and now he has 87, almost identical approval from republicans. even though some of his projects have faltered.

here is one possible secret to trump's support. his voters may not care much about enacting those policies if they didn't vote for him based on policy. this may be the most consequential dynamic for trump's political coalition. if it's not built around policies and traditional interests, if it's built around the politics of status. consider this observation about american politics. quote, the luxury of questing after status has assumed an unusually prominent place in our civic consciousness. political life is not simply an area in which the conflicting interests of various social groups and concrete material gains are thought out, it's also an arena in which status, aspirations and frustrations are projected. status, frustrations. so a leader who makes people feel better about their own status in society may hold their support even if he doesn't

change their actual, say, financial status. think of trump's attacks on immigrants, his focus on how america used to be, his obsession with casting himself at war with the east coast tv media. even though he is its most famous member. this concept of status politics was pioneered in 1963 by historian richard hofftader in a fams book kw. fights own tangibles like the budget, government actions, with status politics fights over intangibles like who has prestige and status. he argued that, among a certain group of pseudo conservatives a vicksation on status and paranoid conspiracy theories detached politics from policy-making altogether reducing it to a tribal war that doesn't really respond to new policies or facts because it was never about those things to begin with. sound familiar? as trump's base and its support

proves resilient, and he uses the white house to push false conspiracy theories like trump tower being wire tapped many ask what clues are held today. joining us the authors of "why-topia." rick, you were saying you read the book when it first came out in the early '60s. what is it capturing today? >> if you read it now, and you can find it online pretty easily, it could have been written a week ago. it could have been written this year. it's so on the money about what this administration and this president are like. virtually everything that donald trump says is based on imaginary either offenses or imagined enemies and imagined

conspiracies. this is the first time, probably, that that kind of mentality has taken over an actual presidency. >> right, because hoffstatder was focused on conservativism and the movement around barry goldwater which ultimately did not take the white house. >> it did take the republican party. >> right. >> eventually. >> what do you think about his point -- i was rereading this and found it very interesting -- that you can actlly unhook -- in other words, traditional politicians are still held to their pledges, butf it's not about facts and policy, it's -- becomes what he calls a more projected psychological dynamic where the supporters are simply renewed in feeling good about themselves or their status and the wall being built or not might not matter. >> i mean, it's an alternative universe, an alt-universe, you might say, where this is going on. and something like -- take something like the republican denial of climate change and how enormous a conspiracy you would

have to posit in order to have 99% of the scientists of the world all in on the conspiracy. similarly, when he claims that he really won the popular vote because somehow the three million were phony, were done by -- well, that would have to be another one of these gigantic conspiracies. and these things are just rolled out one after another. it's as if they kind of cancel each other out and we get just one weird morass. >> and speaking of weird morass, taking hendrick's example of climate science hoffstader tells us two things have to be true. one, you have to have misinformation and you have to create an us versus them meality. trump has created that. the media elites, false scientists and dysinfortion. e problem is he is taking it

to a new level. he it taking it to a new level because he wants to de-fund information gathering that makes us a better society. he wants to kneecap scientists. he is like hoff sstader on steroids. >> do you think these are things that they actually plan out in a proactive manner or something they get a feel for? when i was on the campaign trail one of the interesting things at the rallies, typical politicians are taught to be very scripted and they're so punished for going away from the script. you could see him looking around, taking it in, figuring out what he wanted to say and repeat. that made it dangerous with things like "lock her up" that sort of bubbled up. it also from a sheer marketing perspective showed that kind of knack. in your estimation, is he like goldwater and others in planning

it out or is there something more improvisational it. >> i think it's more improvisational. it's beyond what goldwater did. it's like the john birch society used to do accusing eisenhower being an agent of a communist society. this is different. this is different. he -- he is improvising this stuff. he is feeding off these crowds, and he is mistaking that for the whole country. he thinks that that -- he thinks that, when he gets that kind of response from one of these crowds, that that's -- >> that that's representative. >> and he keeps on -- now he is president and he's still doing it. >> to that point, he held a lot of rallies that were not presidential in the sense of for citizens, they were politically themed rallies where he went back out to talk to supporters even though he has a different job now. on that point, here are some of the sounds from the berkeley protests which i emphasized on

air that do speak to some of the polarization out there on both sides. >> these people don't belong in berkeley. they're not from berkeley. they're just coming in to start something. >> these cowards who want to wear michigaasks and want to su punch people for no reason. they're full of rage. >> that's an extreme version. how does this type of paranoid politics spread in your view? and does it spread on a wider basis than just trump supporters? >> the thing that's made it possible is the different media universe. if you get all your news from fox news and if you listen to rush limbaugh and mark liven and that kind of talk radio when you're commuting in your car, that's your reality. so the facts actually don't even reach you. the facts about global warming, for example. you just don't -- you just

haven't heard them. >> right. >> so naturally you're going to have bizarre points of view. >> let me flip that, because, rich, the other side is i hear from folks who say, well, yeah, but a lot of trump's critics are rushing to assume the worst about, say, russia before all the facts are in. there may be some evidence but before the facts are in they want to find treason or something negative which is a type of politically infused opinion. >> indeed. to me, the sinister element of this is that he's going for this paranoid style in politics that he diffuses through social media, not quite so improvisational but it's an inoculation. if you go for this style, you go for the style soon you'll be inoculated like a teflon president against the bad policy choices or the ineptitude you're perpetrating. it's a clever strategy.

it's a prophylactic. >> as they say, sometimes you have to get off twitter and read a book. wonderful to have two authors to talk about this. the use of excessive force brought back into the spotlight with the united airlines incident, a passenger dragged off the overbooked flight. the airline getting the blame. what about law enforcement. in this case chicago pd. why did this incident get so much attention compared to the many other documented instances of excessive force by that very department? that's next on "the point." no, i'm good. come on, moe. i have to go. (vo) we always trusted our subaru impreza would be there for him someday. ok. that's it. (vo) we just didn't think someday would come so fast. see ya later, moe. (vo) introducing the all-new subaru impreza. the longest-lasting vehicle in its class. more than a car, it's a subaru.

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brought back into the spotlight department? we're jumping in with breaking news. a press conference in action regarding an alleged facebook live killing in cleveland. let's listen in for a moment. >> we are encouraging people to be careful, to be vigilant, to watch out for one another. i think we put the vehicle out there a few times. it's a white ford -- white ford fusion. it was recently purchased. we think there is a temporary tag on it, but the plates could have been switched. it's a white ford fusion, newer model vehicle.

it's listed in steve's name. so we encourage people, if you see that vehicle, give us a call. the description of steve is out there. he is a black male, medium complexion. about 6'1", 240 pounds, currently bald with a beard. >> did you get in touch with his girlfriend or with his mother? >> we aren touch with a lot of steve's family members and friends and they're all trying to do the same thing, trying to get him to turn himself in. >> we're still searching everyplace that we either get tips or that we think he may be. >> are you officially releasing the victim's name tonight? first name and age? >> yes, we'll get that to you later. >> [ inaudible question ] >> we have checked probable hundreds of leads since this happened at 2:00 p.m. today. so far there is nothing else that connects him with any other incident that's happened in this city today.

but still, we're encouraging people, if you know something, if you see that vehicle, or if you see steve himself, definitely give us a call, call 911. don't approach him. he is considered armed and dangerous. we want people to be careful out there, be careful in your comings and goings. we are not putting the city on lockdown or anything like that. people just have to be careful and watch out for one another. if you see something that looks suspicious, call 911. >> we have been listening to a press conference there by cleveland police regarding that alleged facebook live killing. the takeaway here being that the individual is believed to be on the loose. police asking for help but not the kind of emergency that warrants a lockdown and no evidence of any other victims at this time, something this assailant had allegedly said in comments broadcast on social media. that is the update. we'll stay on the story here and update as warranted if there are further developments in cleveland. turning to the other story i

was promising earlier in the broadcast. if you live in the u.s. you've probably talked to someone about the united airlines incident this week, the footage going viral of chicago police draggin airlines flight. united drew tons of criticism, they were acting in concert with chicago police that chose to use that level of force. this is the same chicago police department that was a priority for reform in the waning days of the obama administration. >> the chicago police department engages in pattern or practice of use of excessive force in violation of the fourth amendment to the constitution. our investigation found that this pattern of practice is in no small part the result of severely deficient training procedures and accountability systems. >> nonpartisan federal investigators found chicago police often use excessive force unnecessarily. they use it ten times more

against blacks than whites. the city spent more than $660 million settling police misconduct cases for actions that range from harassment to police killings. few have defended united decision this week, some questions about where police fit in remain unanswered including why this drew so much outrage than the 5,000 allegations against police misconduct against the same chicago police department. i'm joined by an organizer of the black lives matter movement. wonder what y were thinking watching all this attention. >> it's not the first video we have seen about this. about a year ago there was a black woman dragged off a delta plane. it wasn't the chicago police who dragged dr. dao off. it was the aviation police.

it was a chicago police who put out the statement that suggested that dr. dao fell. that he tripped and happened to get hurt. they were complicit in covering up. i think that's why people distrust police in so many ways. they put out four apologies. first one, the ceo said that dr. dao had to reaccommodate him. it's like you dragged him out. the second one they suggested he was belligerent and disruptive. it wasn't until the third statement they acknowledged they needed to change their practices. the flight wasn't overbooked. it was four of their employees wants to get on at the last minute. the fourth statement that proposed concrete policy changes. this is fail for united across the board. the reason police don't trust the police in chicago and cities across the country. sdp you say in cities across the country. do you think the nature of this

incident is one where a thing that everyone agrees is negative, excessive force, which you can debate when it happens. when it does happen, it means too much force was more relatable to people who see themselves as airline travelers or this could happen to them? >> we saw it from start to finish. i think a lot of people to this day are look at it like that cod be me there's a question about how race factored intohis would be remiss to believe that a blonde hair white woman would be dragged off a plane like there. people saw this video and were like, this was excessive. you see the statements that came out and they suggested that dr. dao was belligerent and disruptive and yelling. that wasn't true. if they will lie about something as clear cut as this, it calls into question about how much they are telling the truth about when we don't have video which is something we've been saying for years now. >> which goes do that broader

pattern. if everyone is touched by the police did something wrong, but then you're paying out 600 million plus so you don't have to actually prove why they were wrong in court, obviously that doesn't always square which is why we wanted to take that broader view. where does a corporate culture go from here when there's this much outrage about how they treated people, customers? >> you have to look at why. brands have a brand promise. the promise was fly the friendly skies. when it's something this disgraceful, people are incredibly upset. one has to take ownership of the action. i think the ceo is doing that. stla to put policies into effect that make people believe there's

authenticity. >> there isn't authenticity here. it was so hard to get to a position that's defensivable because the third and second instinct was to spin, degrade. social media had a field day with the word choice and all that. >> it was not well handled. i think that but when stock decline by $225 million, i think it went down by 1%. i think there's the reality has set in that they have to do something. i think they will do something. i think that the reaction today is that everyone has a camera and a video. >> right. >> there's -- everyone's got a body camera if you're on a plane. listen to oscar speaking to good morning america's rebecca about the treatment issue. you were just touching on that. >> do you think he's at fault in any way? >> no. he can't be.

he was a paying passenger sitting on our seat in our aircraft and no one should be treated that way, period. >> do you see any kind of window? you work in organizing. is there some wider window for people to relate to this type of situation or as we say in the biz, are we stretching in this segment because a lot of people see this as a very specific united thing and a wider thing about wenforcement. >> i think one of my questions is how often is this happening and people didn't know about it because there wasn't a video. it reminds me of the pepsi situation that they didn't raelds they needed a stronger statement until forced to do it either by the public or sales or profit decline. that remains troubling. it took four statements for him to get to a point where he acknowledged that dr. dao didn't do anything wrong. we saw the image of him being

bloody. we'll see what comes next from united. >> thank you both for joining us. if you have questions or comments, you can tweet to me. joy reid is up next. have great night. sure we could travel, take it easy... but we've never been the type to just sit back... not when we've got so much more to give when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise

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. for one spring breaker at fox news the vacation may just best. bill o riley said he would be getting away. his choice of vacation days come shortly after the new york times revelation on april 1st that o'reilly and fox news have paid $13 million in settlements to five women who have accused him of sexual harassment. he's