that's a fact. now, in defending the president's decision, i said that unlike syrian leader -- the leader of -- what is the stupid name. bazooka felicia ahmad rashad. at least hitler never used chemical weapons and everybody freaked. they were all like boohoo. what about the holocaust centers. yeah, i know they are not really called holocaust centers. duh. i know that. i'm aware. i clearliment to say concentration clubs, okay? it would be really great if the nitpickers could try to see the big picture and didn't solely focus on every little slur and lie i say. that would be nice. >> oh,y gosh.

"snl" had so much material to work with. that was fantastic the easter bunny. did you see the bannon one? we'll have that later? north korea was the big issue over the weekend. north korea didn't test a nuke but did parade troubling new weapons. their missile test was a dud. >> none of them worked but they tried. >> they tried. that could only put their program into overdrive now. are things better or worse than they were 72 hours ago? plus president trump is noting his easy victory in the electoral college while criticizing protesters for not putting the election behind him. yes, he did both of those things in the span of two tweets. good morning, it's monday april 1th. with us on set we have the president of the council on foreign relations and author of a world in disarray richard haass. former congressman harold ford jr. and former aide to the bush white house and state

department. happy easter. >> so good, delicious scrambled eggs. can you tell when they are raised with love. >> thank you. i'll bring in more. maybe you'll get some, richard. >> i want to talk about north korea. you wondered exactly what was doing to happen. a lot of theories out there. let's get to news first and then get richarsake on a strategy he says may be working. >> hours after what north korea unveiled a large number of new and advanced missiles, the regime fired a test ballistic missile likely from a submarine that barely got off the ground before exploding. at his club in florida, president trump celebrated the easter holiday and let the pentagon do the talking. defense secretary jim mattis released a terse two-sentence statement. the president and his military team are aware of north korea's most recent unsuccessful missile launch of the the president has

no further comment. >> let's stop there real quickly. richard haahau haass, this scre a tweet from donald trump. you get a sense everybody around him, if you want to tweet at meryl streep, that's fine, but an errant tweet that pushes this fat, crazy kid in the corner could be serious. there was a pretty good bit of restraint. >> some discipline, h.r. mcmaster. it's like you said what he didn't tweet. strong choreographed. the president continuing to play the china card here, working closely with beijing to put pressure on these guys. a lot of mystery whether this was a failed launch or american cyber capabilities had something to do with it. >> how about a third option? how about china? you know china is there.

china already sent a message. we know you promise add launch here. it would be in your best interest for this launch to not be successful. >> that's certainly true, not be successful. in a funny way, even more worried about north korean missile advance than we are about nuclear warhead advance. we think they have got pretty much the weapons. worried about long-range missil missiles, accuracy. it could be the missile test failed. they have had failed missile tests before. what it shows is essentially the entire conversation changed. for a couple decades this has drifted. north korea advanced. what the administration has done is say we're not going to tolerate this. secretary of state says strategic patience is over. this has now come to a head. what we're basically telling china, if you don't want a massive crisis on the korean peninsula that could involve war and all the unsesht that involves you better use that influence you say you don't have that you know and we know you do have. >> you seem to think this is a

good thing. >> the combination of credible military force, chinese engagement and possibly some signals the united states might be prepared to accept something less than complete north korean denuclearization. this could be setting the stage for something. >> speaking of the did he military hifd zone vice president pence said all options on the table. it was a message repeated by security adviser h.r. mcmaster. >> this latest missile test just fits into a pattern of provocative and destabilizing and threatening behavior on the part of the north korean regime. there's an international consensus now including the chinese and chinese leadership that this is a situation that just can't continue. what is clear as long as their behavior continues, as long as they continue, missile development, even a failed missile, they get better and learn lessons.

so what's critical is for them to stop this destabilizing behavior, stop the development of these weapons and denuclearize. >> you work in the state department. obviously big changes happened over the last couple of weeks and you really sensed it over the weekend as well. >> i still am really anktious about tting these ambassadors in key regions surrounding north korea. we need an ambassador in south korea. we need an ambassador in china and japan. we need people in the region for you to deal with this crisis but i do think it's quite promising that general mcmaster was speaking about this from kabul. he's in afghanistan. the administration is showing they can manage multiple crisis and are engaged not just with north korea but the globe. >> harold, china, remember, the president started off poorly with china supposedly because of the taiwan call. right now, as of today, you've got to say they have played it pretty well. >> i would agree.

i think -- here is the tweet on sunday. >> chip, currency manipulator when they are working with us on north korean problem. exactly, you shouldn't call china currency manipulators. >> this is interesting. i guess the question i would have for haass and this may be the right thing, some have speculated there's a way to take out this young leader. mr. mccain has a unique way of describing him. a unique way to take him out. what confidence or ideas do we have as to might emerge as a successor. we talk about iran, middle east, young populations, very educated people who may emerge as leaders. perhaps i'm unclear and uneducated about this region. what happens if he is removed, goes a step further? i guess to take it one step back, what kind of influence does china actually have as americans think about this. >> short an is this is the hardest intelligence target in the world for the united states. it's the most opaque country, so we adopt have a good answer.

if he were to disappear natural, unnatural, we don't know. >> bring into the conversation supreme ally commande. chief international security dip almostacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. good to have you on this morning. >> thank you so much for being with us. do you agree with richard haass hat president's team has put together a good north korean policy right now, a strategy? >> i think it looks like it. we'll know more as events unfold. but really there's sort of three buckets here. richard did a great job as usual of describing the first one, which is china. in the end, i agree the road to pyongyang runs through being. the other two buckets are cyber

and special forces, kind of a covert program. the other would be strikes, using mother of all bomb to go after deep and hardened targets over there. the second two strategies are going to cause a lot of instability as harold just asked. we don't know what comes after if you do the decapitation option. so you keep getting driven back to china strategy. i think it's the right one. so far it appears that's the road we're on. >> i'm going to ask you and also richard quickly the disturbing news i thought yesterday out of turkey. tell me what does that mean for a vote where opponents are demanding a recount. some troubling signs that some of the votes may not have been counted there. and the government saying immediately there will be no recount. >> worrisome and part of a

pattern of increasing authoritarianism we're seeing from erdogan. it would be a mistake to let them drift out of the western orbit. we're going to have to work with them. we're going to have to pay more attention to them. by mid century turkey's population will surpass that of russia. it's not only a bridge between east and west, it's a center of power unto itself. so troubling signs but we're going to have to continue to work with them and try to hold them in the orbit with nato and ultimately perhaps in the european union, although that looks a lot harder this morning. >> richard, last five to seven years, our relationship with turkey and internal situation in turkey could hardly have gone much worse. >> exactly. it wasn't that long ago we held out turkey as a model. how we're going to have development in the muslim world. it's no the a model for

anything. tricky slogan, no problem with any neighbor. now they don't have a neighbor with whom they don't have problems. this has been a wildly unsuccessful country going in the wrong direction. as the admiral says we're dependent on them. we ought to look at ways to become less dependent on them. this guy will be in office until 2029, if he can survive this, which is pretty much saying forever. turkey following a policy not in america's interest. we're working closely with the kurds. turkey says the kurds as number one enemy, two and three enemy. we're on something of a collision course with this country. we ought not to kid ourselves. this has implications for europe. this is how refugees can start flowing back into europe, how terrorists can flow back into europe. a terrible policy and your ability to work with them is increasingly --

>> final thoughts? >> nato can be an important part of holding turkey in the orbit because eu option i think is going away over human rights arnold death penalty. this is another example of why nato will work for us. >> thank you very much. also demonstrations held in 150 cities across the country including chicago, atlanta, and outside the capital in washington. calling on president trump to release his tax returns. the president and his administration have repeatedly dismissed those calls citing an audit by the irs and saying the issue was only important to journalists and liberal politicians. in berkeley, california, at least 13 people were arrested after demonstrations and trump supporters clashed at a pro trump rally on saturday. police say things escalated when heated words were exchanged, as fights spilled into the streets and objects like rocks and bottles were used as weapons.

president trump weighed in on the demonstrations yesterday tweeting on saturday, i did what was almost impossible, an impossible thing to do for a republican, easily won the electoral college. now tax returns are brought up again? he continued, someone should look into who paid for small organized rallies yesterday. the election is over. harold, what do you make of that? >> they obviously wn able to stop these tweets. i think a couple of things. right, he won. as much as i want to say tax returns release, i hope perhaps it's gone through investigatory committees in the house and senate. it seems smaller now with the matters we're talking about, with world politics today. no doubt our congress one of the things they will try to do is draw in republicans that pass something that says anyone a nominee of a party should release returns. rallies, i don't know, when

we're talking about such weighty matters on the world stage. >> yeah. i've got to say the fact we're talking about tax rallies instead of talking about a judiciary being undermined or talking about the press being enemies of the people or talking about some of the other things when the white house was taking authoritarian tones the way they were, this is actually -- >> the rally should be in the district of those congress -- republican congress if you want to do this, that might be more effective. >> how about rallies in georgia where you actually have an election tomorrow. >> probably more effective. >> that's the question. do democrats win in georgia tomorrow? if they win in georgia tomorrow, maybe all these rallies create excitement. if they don't, the question is what difference are they making? >> is this just a bunch of smoke and mirrors from really engaged acvists completely disconnected from what the

electorate wants. this isn't a electorate that elected donald trump without seeing tax returns. >> this is where the story actually matters. president trump weighing in on last week's special congressional election in kansas while giving a preview of how he thinks tomorrow's special contest in georgia will play out. kansas republican treasurer ron estes beat out thompson, you remember, in a close contest that could have reverberation for the midterms. tag to twitter yesterday the president wrote, the recent kansas election, congress, was a really big media event until the republicans won. now they play the game with georgia. bad. senator bernie sanders suggested democrats didn't enough to support thompson in the election. >> so what i think has happened now in kansas, it is true that the democratic candidate lost. it is true the democratic party should have put more resources into that election. it is also true he ran 20

opponents better than the democratic candidate for president did in kansas. >> what do you think? especially looking ahead to georgia? >> first of all, maybe bernie sanders is right. maybe they should look back. that was a district republicans have won easily, that trump won easily, that pompeo won easily. it was closer than expected. that suggests some kind of trend. >> worth looking at. >> georgia tomorrow. georgia is a district donald trump only won by one point, this georgia district. if republicans hold onto that seat tomorrow, then you can't say, harold, that there's been any gain by democrats. i know it's georgia. i know it's the deep south. democrats -- i'm saying if i'm a democrat, we have to win this seat no matter what. it's just a plus one seat for trump.

>> which again to your point about make of the rallies we saw over the weekend, some of the energy around. don't get me wrong, i think his tax return should be released. that's where the action should be. >> exactly. >> i don't disagree with your characterization. if it's a close race, argument wasn't a presidential year, get a bigger turn out, if democrats win in georgia, it will be very hard for president trump -- i'll be curious to see what he tweets about that. >> if the democrats win in georgia, elise, obviously democrats and trump opponents can make a lot of hay out of it. if they don't in a plus one, that's bad news for them. >> it shows that the base isn't -- maybe they are activated, and there are some people really pushing this in the anti-trump bandwagon and going strong but actual voters maybe giving this president more of a chance. >> the trump base may be as energized, animated. >> what all these people need to do in the future, if they want

to really effect change, i respect every one of them for going out on a holiday weekend. god please them for caring about their country enough to do that, but if you really want to target it and really want to help, get your people in atlanta going door to door in the congressional district knocking on doors, handing out information, giving them information on how to get to the polls, saying we'll be here on tuesday to drive you to the polls. that's how you -- that will speak louder -- >> amount to something. >> than any million person march if democrats win in georgia. >> one interesting statistic on tuesday, how many people vote this tuesday who didn't vote in the last election. to what extent have people been motivated to essentially get involved in the political process. it is a big deal. >> i don't want to overplay this, but this certainly i think is taking on a lot of the feel of scott brown's special

election in 2009, the year after barack obama was elected. he had a republican winning in deep blue masshusetts, ted kennedy's seat. let's see if a democrat wins in a deep red state. >> kasie hunt down in georgia and she'll report tomorrow on all of this. still ahead on "morning joe," wasn't just sean spicer who got "snl" treatment. did you see the showdown between jared kushner and steve bannon? >> no, i can't wait to see this. >> we'll show you that sketch straight ahead. plus new reporting on that palace intrigue with the white house reported by calling bannon's bluff. plus former defense secretary cohen, long time ambassador christopher hill and white house correspondent kristen welker. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me,

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jared, steve, standing before me are my two top advisers, but i only have one photo in my hand. that's right. tonight is elimination night. there's been a lot of drama in the house. that's okay, but one of you must go. now, who gets to stay? jared, you take the most beautiful photos. steve, you take the worst photos i've ever seen in my life, i'm not joking. when i see a photo of you, it makes me want to proof. the photo in my hand represents the man who will be staying tonight. if you don't see your photo you must immediately leave the oval office and join kellyanne conway in the oval office. the person hole stwho will stay

my top adviser is jared. have a seat at your new desk. i'd like you to just fix everything, okay? if you need me, i'll be at my desk, okay? >> so now jared, too. >> no, no, no. >> how funny. >> taken the spotlight off the infighting on west wing while new reports go deeper. "vanity fair" details drama in the white house between jared kushner and steve bannon. sources tell the magazine that bannon had repeatedly threatened to leave the administration if he were ousted from the national security council. quote, it was almost as if they were calling his bluff. this as "new york times" reports how first daughter ivanka trump has been battling bannon. reporting in recent weeks she has spoken bluntly about

bannon's shortcomings to the president. she was especially incensed by articles plansed by bannon's allies suggesting he, not her father, honed the populous message that sweeped the midwest. she made that point in the strongest materials to her father according to family friend. ivanka trump is not relishing white house battles. according to "vanity fair," she's telling friends, quote, i didn't request for this. let bring in columnist frank bruny. good to have you. what do you think of that report instagram it matches what i heard. >> here is the thing everybody misses. there is no internal battle. when take you on whoever is in the white house or wants to be the white house. >> ivanka did ask for this. >> when take you on the family you lose. it's kind of like who is going to win the battle tonight between joe's 8-year-old son and joe when they are trying to figure out what time joe's

8-year-old son would be going to bed. i'm serious. you can write as many articles as you want to write about that. i'm not going to lose. i win that. i'm just saying. >> but it's complicated. >> all of this talk has been so exhausting. why didn't they pick up the phone and call cory lewandowski, how does this end? you know what, the family wins? >> do you not feel steve bannon has hastened his own demise? >> yes. i'm saying by he started to attack three to four weeks ago jared kushner out of left field. people started calling me, a lot of people, what do you think is up? i said, well, i think he's stupid. i think that's what's up. he's going to lose. this is obvious stuff, frank. >> people who are really smart on some vectors are dumb on other victectorsvectors. he was doomed before then. cardinal rule of washington and

human nature you do not eclipse the person whom you are supposed to be serving. bannon let his legend grow extremely large, dangerously large. to some extent have you no control over that because we in the media do it but you have to resist. >> the horrible inauguration speech he helped write, horrid, absolutely the worst in history. >> the carnage. >> he has not put any points on the board. in fact, it's been all failures until now. i believe bannon put hills in front of that and believed he was the fixer on everything and was a disaster. >> politics like most things past is prologue. people in the white house are starting to look at his past and say, hey, this guy always ends up blowing himself and people around him up.

>> talk about carnage, some of the houses he's lived in. >> but the past is always prologue and politics. show me somebody's past. if they have done it over and over again, they are going to do it in the future and bannon blew himself up. >> they are in the extremely volatile position of damage control. how do they get the ordinance, out of the white house without him exploding all over them. >> that's actually the issue now. real reporting here is that they are trying to figure out what the heck to do with him so he doesn't hurt them on the outside. >> i thought they made -- i thought the piece was also brilliant describing just how diminished kellyanne conway's role has become in the white house. says -- the story one adviser said, oh, do not bother talking about her. she really doesn't have a seat at the table anymore. that was pretty brutal. >> that was not nice. >> the great slugger babe ruth said yesterday's home runs don't win tomorrow's ball games.

>> that's right. >> to your point, he came to this campaign late. you're not going to take trump on saying i created this. >> stupid. >> serious things happening around the world. no wins on the board. finally karl rove, recall when he was in office, people talk about him as the brain. he had to pull that back. bush made it very clear he to pull that back. what bush had, trump does not have, trump has a good family, capable family, bush had people around him who were able to pull rove back and do some of that in the press. bannon doesn't have that. >> by the way, the bush family always let karl rove know what karl rove's position was. like mike deaver said ronald reagan was great, i enjoyed working for him. in my years working for him there wasn't one day where i wasn't reminded i was staff. that's what you need in the

white house. fox ho, being in the room with mcmaster, foreign policy teams, tough guys, deep thinkers, experienced thinkers, disciplined leaders and then looking back at his domestic team and seeing spicy there and bannon, he's probably like, oh, yeah, no. i'm sorry, i think he's going to see a contrast and think he needs deep thinkers on the domestic side as well. >> trump carries less about that brand of populism than his approval rating. if steve bannon is not going to shepherd him to approval ratings he wants, he's not going to stay with steve bannon. >> president trump is disavowing more simplistic policy statements on the campaign trail. there's more instances where he's saying, wow, who knew health care is this complicated. wow, after ten minutes briefed on north korea by the chinese president, this is really

complicated. he's shifting and not sticking to these hard core -- >> by the way, we may freak out about that. donald trump is sending a message to his people, i'm going to shift a little bit here. this is more complicated than we thought on the campaign trail. i'm going to shift. your family and my family, some people who supported trump are like, okay, that's fine. the thing about trump is, and we said this before, before he came into office, it's a meritocracy for trump. he's not going to allow a friend from yale to debaptize iraq and destroy the region for ten years. >> what about his son-in-law? is it a meritocracy with his family? >> it will be interesting to see what happens. he cares about winning and he does not care about yesterday. it's performance, performance, and performance.

>> and trust. >> bannon had too many failures. the travel ban, what happened to the travel ban. he tried to browbeat voting for obamacare and we saw how that worked. still ahead the white house closes the books on what critics say is a key facet to government transparency. we'll explain that ahead on "morning joe."

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he now says this white house is no longer going to routinely release visitor log showing who is coming to the white house, as president obama did. another development, there were massive marches across the country protesting. these were called tax marches. people demanding president trump release his tax returns. the president apparently not liking those marches. he said, i did what was almost an impossible thing to do for a republican, easily won the electoral college, now tax returns are brought up again? jillian, this president apparently thinks transparency is overrated.

>> say really quickly before we get to the transparency part i've been getting texts from leaders of not so much the democratic party itself but major forces in the democratic party, in the coalition, saying that the ground operations in georgia are not what they should be. and basically repeating what i had said. if you're a democrat. if you don't like donald trump and you want to send a message, do not march in atlanta. knock on doors in atlanta. do phone banks in atlanta. if you are in berkeley, and you want to make a difference, go to a phone bank and call primary voters. democratic primary voters. call independents, swing voters. he marching in the street, again, very important. >> we get it. >> but you send a message to the world if democrats win in georgia tomorrow by over 50%. that is a shock wave.

that sends a message. this is how democrats and liberals and progressives have got to start getting smarter. because frank, the last six years have been six of the worst years, historically, for the democratic party legislatively. they have to do more than yell. >> democrats are bad at being relentlessly practical the way they need to be. you see this in certain swing districts. this will be a big story in 2018. certain swing districts they do not nominate the person most likely to win in the general, a purist from the brim area and losing. one in upstate new york that's an example. they don't know how to be as practical as they need to be. >> i've been asking all democratic leaders that come on here, would you be okay with a pro-life from alabama, kentucky. if they are from alabama and they agree with you on economics, is it okay if they

are pro-life? i keep hearing no. no, it's not. no, it's not. harold, you know very well, donna brazil, i remember after 2004 wrote an op-ed in the "new york times." when i go home they don't ask about our economics, they keep asking why we're for abortion. again, i'm not just talking about that one issue, but that is a cultural issue. it is the cultural issues that have disconnected democrats from a lot of middle america. >> in big parts of the country, i think there has to be some allowances and compensations if we expect to win in big parts of the country where we've lost. democrats -- let's not overblow this thing. for eight years under obama we figured out how to organize nationally but what we've not done to your point is figure out how to win in local districts, congressional districts. i know a new launch how we win in some of these states. >> democrats lost everything. >> i'm saying nationally.

but we are terrible, have shown over the last 10, 20 years as we look at congressional districts, senate. i never understood when democrats say we won. >> translator:'s race by 3 million votes as if that meant something. if it meant house, senate, governor's seats, it would mean something. >> we've got to go. >> you're right. democrats have gotten hammered at state races and as a result redistricting which hurt them at the national level. >> you know, barack obama is talking about doing a lot of things. i would recommend if he cares about his party, and i'm sure he does, instead of starting a think tank and going across the world and flying and talking to monarchs and not leaders, no, i'm dead serious, reassemble his 2008 team and start teaching people. i thoughtfter the loss one of the smartest things he said is, and you go to counties that you're going to lose. so instead of losing a county in

iowa by 52 points. >> gain a county. >> you lose it by 18 points and you add that up and keep adding it up, and suddenly you win iowa. that's something that democrats -- that is the best service he could do for his party is teach them how to win on local levels. barack obama politician would be the first to say if the only way you win in alabama is with a progressive person who happens to be pro-life -- >> very good talk but have you to stop talking now. >> jhonattaner from tennessee used to say the only vote a democrat should be concerned about liberal or conservative is the leader of the democrats in the house and leader of the democrats in the senate because that signals where you are. there's no pro-choice republican who is going to vote for nancy pelosi. i'd much rather have a pro-life democrat voting for a leader in the house and senate than pro-choice republican. >> okay. this is where the conversation pauses. >> i keep talking about

pro-life -- exactly, we're not just talking about abortion, we're talking about cultural issues that have disconnected democrats from the core of this country. now, mika, i've just got to say it's time for us to go to break. you've got to stop talking so much. >> i know. can you believe it. you know what i'm going to do, i'going to apologize, i'm sorry. >> what am i supposed to say here. i was just joking. >> when we were off air i asked who let devin nunes into the white house? do we not know how that transpired. i know a member of congress can ask and that information can be released. do we not know? >> he's like mr. magoo, he just stumbled in. >> so there's an issue with visitor logs and trans paeshs and we'll get to that after the break. stop talking. just stop talking. you don't compromise. and you never settle.

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the trump white house will not release its visitor logs. the decision to freeze the information without specific freedom act request was announced the afternoon of the good friday holiday. communications director cited grave national security risks and private concerns of the hundreds of thousands of visitors annually, or devin nunes. said the new policy will save $20,0 $70,000. wait, what about flights and trips to mar-a-lago because i'm sure it's more than $70,000. who let devin nunes. he has grave concerns. >> i've never seen it confirmed. >> never seen it confirmed.

so is this all about devin nunes? >> it looks like it might be. >> can i just start calling that guy mr. magoo. mr. magoo ethics investigation. so transparency obviously not a watch word in this administration, so what does the press do? >> what do we do? we keep pointing it out to voters as we have with tax returns. i think we're in a situation where if americans are pleased enough with the trump presidency they for some reason don't tend to bother themselves with stuff. we know transparency is important and the press keeps saying that voters at the end of the day will jump on something if they want to turn on something but let it go if they don't of that's what trump is banking on. >> i think tax returns should be released like everybody else. i've got to tell you, harold, there are not a lot of people that are down the middle, are pro trump that care about those tax returns.

they come up, why do you keep talking about the tax returns, we don't care? >> people know that he's wealthy. they don't mind he's wealthy. they support him. >> i'm not saying that's right. >> to the point you madebubble. >> the point you made earlier, right after the races, they should go to the districts where those members of congress, russia investigation committee and urge those members of congress to demand he release the returns as part of the russian investigation. >> i think he needs to be compelled. >> he's only going to be compelled if congress compels him. >> does he have to release them, by law? >> why can't congress pass a law and say that everybody that wins their pearty's nomination in th future -- >> we don't have that law right now. >> five years of tax returns. >> i agree. >> totally agree. >> bipartisan effort. >> have protests about that in your districts. >> yeah. >> and trump signs that law? they could pass that law and the

person who has to sign that law would be donald trump. >> you put that pressure on him if, you have a republican congress that passes that, i would like to see him not sign it. >> i would like to see the republican congress pass it. >> i would like to see an argument in the fashion it could be effective. just protesting that he should do it when he doesn't have to, doesn't make sense to me. >> thank you, mike. >> so, alex gorson has just said, mika, that more and more republicans are getting hammered in their town hall meetings about the taxes being released. >> great. that's the proper place. >> exactly. >> if you hammer them in townhall meetings and somebody, a republican, will come out with a bill that says all future presidents must release -- >> nominees of the party. >> nominees. trump will have tostein.

>> why is barack obama spending millions to try and hide his records? he is the least transparent president ever, and he ran on transparency. >> well, obviously, that's the new model. >> whatever. there are ways to get visitor logs. i think a member of congress has to request them. i wish one would. what am i missing here? >> twitter is the gift that keeps on giving. >> so a member of congress -- >> has to request visitor logs. >> he can't claim executive privilege over any of that? >> i don't think so but i'll look into that over the break, richard. no one is demanding to know who let devin nunes in and all of a sudden they're closing up the visitor logs. former defense secretary

william cohen will be our guest. plus, rick stengel and former chief of staff to the cia, jeremy bash. "morning joe" is back in a moment. choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom... let it sink in. shouldn't we say we have the lowest price? nope, badda book. badda boom. have you ever stayed with choice hotels? like at a comfort inn? yep. free waffles, can't go wrong. i like it. promote that guy. get the lowest price on our rooms, guaranteed. when you book direct at choicehotels.com. book now. when a fire destroyed the living room. we were able to replace everything in it. liberty did what? liberty mutual paid to replace all of our property that was damaged. and we didn't have to touch our savings. yeah, our insurance won't do that.

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this is really very serious. this guy in north korea is not rational. his father and grandfather were much more rational than he is. >> senate armed services chair john mccain, noting the challenges in stopping the leader of north korea. in a moment, we'll speak with the former secretary of defense, william cohen. welcome back to "morning joe." it's monday, april 17th. with us, former democratic congressman harold ford jr., richard haass and "new york times" reporter jeremy peters. >> how was everybody's holiday weekend? >> great. >> with my kids. it was great. >> richard? >> family upstate. it was great. >> go golf? >> i did. >> did you really? >> i got out there. >> you and the president. >> actually, i would like to get out and golf. >> do you golf? >> i haven't played.

my son and i dressed identically. >> cute. >> did you get some pictures? >> i did. >> i have to get pictures of my family. >> we've done the shaving cream tie dye, have you heard of this? >> no. >> you take shaving cream and put food coloring in and roll it around. >> my hens did six eggs over the weekend. can you imagine? three chickens over two days, six eggs. after what north korea unveiled what appeared to be large missiles. launched a missile from a submarine that barely got off the ground before exploding. at his trump -- at his resort in florida, the president celebrated easter. jim mattis released this statement, the president and his military team are aware of north

korea's most recent laununsuccel missile lunch. the president has no further comment. this latest missile test just fits into a pattern of provocative and destabilizing and threatening behavior on the part of the north korean regime. and i think there's an international consensus now, including the chinese and the chinese leadership that this is a situation that just can't continue. what is clear is as long as their behavior continues, as long as they continue missile development, even though this was a failed missile, they get better and learn lessons and so what's critical is for them to stop this destabilizing behavior, stop the development of these weapons and denuclearize. >> the president weighed in on relations with beijing on twitter sunday morning. quote, why would i call china a

currency manipulator when they are working with the u.s. on north korean problem? we will see what happens. >> richard haass, obviously the president has stood that he can't talk about china the way he did in the campaign and expect help on north korea. i suspect we're seeing that in his turnabout regarding nato. i expect the next time he's with merkel just a back massage, like bush tried, or something. something worldly inappropriate but donald trump is really trying to see firsthand how everything is interrelated, how the world is interconnected. >> exactly and it's about priorities. and not just deserve to be called a currency manipulator, because it's not manipulating its currency but again, you have a priority. we shelved the issue.

this is the biggest national security threat likely to be coming at the united states over the next couple of years. it's exactly right. to be telling the chinese. this is now the test of china's willingness to step up and be a partner with us, regionally and globally. that message is loud and clear. >> former secretary of defense, william cohen. mr. secretary, so good to have you with us. i saw you after the strikes in syria. you had high praise for the president's advisers. very balanced approach. what about north korea? how do you think their approach has been so far to a problem that has plagued every secretary of defense since you were holding that office. >> i think the approach has been right to date. but i think we have to be careful. son soo, the great chinese said

if you have -- we've placed a very significant force off the coast of korea, the peninsula. and we're sending a very strong message. i think there are two audiences. obviously, kim jong-un. as richard haass and others have said, basically the chinese. the chinese have long understood the nature of the problem, the president now forcing a decision. the decision has to be that the chinese will look to south korea rather than north korea as their ally as such. biggest trading partner, not north korea. north korea is a liability. south korea is an asset. there are ways we could foresee having a unified peninsula without a military presence on the part of the united states. that would be the ultimate goal that would not threaten the chinese and would certainly stabilize the region for all concerned. there are ways to achieve this, putting pressure on as we've

been doing is the right thing to do. but not to go so far as to actually provoke and precipitate him taking preemptive action and, thereby, killing as many as 10 or 20 million people. >> richard, you said this weekend that the president actually -- the white house is taking a two-pronged approach that may be working. one, engage china fully and fwr aggressively. two, apply that pressure to north korea and know for the first time the threat is a credible threat from carl vinson and because -- we have to say this for people at home. remind them again. because the threat to cities like seattle, portland, san francisco, los angeles are just as real three to four years from now. >> exactly right. it's that combination of engaging china and threatening north korea. there are still questions i have. one is whether the south korean government, which is going

through a political prs right now -- we'll have a new south korean president in about a month. will they stand with us or will they say enough confrontation? we have to embrace these guys because we're so scared of a war. second of all, will this administration introduce a significant diplomatic initiative? will they basically be willing to put on the table some sort of deal with north korea that won't solve the problem but park the problem in a place that we can live with? too many big questions. >> want to hear what you both think. almost immediate failure of north korea's missile launch has made it difficult for experts to determine its capability. there are questions about whether the united states played a hidden part. >> do you think u.s. action here, covert action, is the reason why this missile launch failed? >> there's a couple of policies. that's one of them. >> they had a failure yesterday. i'm not sure why.

>> do you buy the sabotage thing? >> i don't. >> do you think our program is good enough to do things like that? >> i don't think so, but i wouldn't rule it out. >> harold, do you have a question for the secretary? >> absolutely. good morning, mr. secretary. harold ford. richard mentioned in his comments that the focus now is to deal with the nuclear capability but, two, perhaps more important, the missile capability. how does dealing with china help us with that? and maybe it's to build on a larger negotiation. how would you see china initiating pressure there? to mika and joe's point about portland, seattle and san francisco, how can we be certain that they won't develop a system over the next couple of years to accomplish that? >> if china were to shut down a good portion of that, there's no way the north korean regime can survive. the question, how quickly would

they do that? in a very slow, methodical way, to let the north korean leader know you're going to be finished? there will be a regime change under these circumstances because your people will continue to suffer. i want to bring back the combination of the approach. if the south koreans, because they're going through this new election, were to then take the position, no, we don't want any missile system, thaad missile system, united states has some pressure here as well. they may say look if you're going to put our soldiers at risk and they are there as a tripwire, if you're going to put them at risk, we may have to consider pulling them out. if that's the case you're kind of on your own. i don't think we would ever say or do that but that leverage is still there. we want to work with the south koreans but not be at the mercy of what they're saying, we're going to continue to do business with the north koreans and don't want the united states to have a defensive capability here. that's another play we have to

look at. ultimately, china can shut off the flow of money, support and food into north korea. that's what we want them to do if the north koreans don't comply and get rid of their system. >> jeremy peters is with us and has a question. jarny? >> that teed up my next question pretty well. china does exert a significant amount of influence here, 80% of their trade with north korea comes from china. i believe that the chinese also control all the energy resources going into north korea. what's preventing them from taking these steps? why have have the chinese not taken a harder line? >> well, one thing is that they don't want a unified peninsula at this point. they don't want to have a south korean dominated capitalist system on their border. but, again, there are ways to from their security point of

view by a reduction or removal of security forces and agreement that there's not going to be any military action taken against the north. they could be a protector of the north. they could extend their nuclear umbrella to include the north. there are many ways to handle this. they haven't wanted to do it yet. they haven't been forced to. now i think the trump administration is forcing a decision, one which will benefit the chinese. china will only benefit from having a productive, energetic, unified peninsula that's doing business with china. and where there are no u.s. troops. >> former secretary william cohen, thank you for being with us this morning. turkey opposition will challenge the vote.

replacing parliamentary system wan executive presidency. opposing republican people's party say its data kind kated, quote, a manipulation in the range of 3% to 4%. president erdogan's response, it's too late now. >> what do you mean it's too late now? >> that's the executive presidency, i guess, talking. electoral boarconfirmed the victory and said final rults would be declared in 11 or 12 days. if it holds, it could keep e erdogan in office until 2029. >> is he so powerful already that he can say it's too late? >> and have we handled turkey very well? >> if there's proof he stole the election? >> he lost a vote in the three biggest cities, his referendum. yes, this is authoritarian regime. turkey has probably jail mord journalists than any other country. thousands of officials have been put in jail.

increasingly no domestic opposition. turkish friends of mine said if it's anything less than 5% i don't know. i haven't seen the evidence. there's all sorts of observers. we'll know more the next two weeks. >> why can't the opposition push back? why are the military leaders never able to push back when he started throwing them in jail? >> historically, the military was the great preserver. >> right. >> over the years, the military has been purged. all sorts of officers were pushed out. erdogan has taken institution after institution after institution in turkish society and essentially weakened it so it's no longer able to be a check and balance on his power. it began with the military, went to the press, to the courts. what he does with the business community is suddenly say you owe millions and millions in back taxes. he has systematically destroyed checks and balances in this country.

this paves the way for this system. president trump is weighing in on the election in kansas and giving the preview of how tomorrow's special contest in georgia will play out. taking to twitter yesterday, he wrote the recent kansas election, congress, was a really big media event until the republicans won. now they play the same game with georgia. bad. >> bad. >> speaking yesterday, senator bernie sanders claims democrats didn't do enough to support the democratic candidate. >> it's true that the democratic party should have put more resources in that election. he ran 20 points better than the democratic candidate for president did. >> so protesting is great.

i have had friends go out and protest if you want to effect change. call into the district in georgia. if you're in atlanta protesting. show the split screens up there. there you go. if you're in chicago, sacramento, wherever you are, you can actually get into phone banks that the democratic party will organize it, call into the district. call leaners. if you're protesting in atlanta, for god sakes, don't hold up signs and chant. knock on doors in the neighborhoods. get out there. make the change. >> there's no question the last eight or nine years, their entire public political identity has been wrapped up in we're going to undo obama care, undo obamacare. democrats should do the same thing here. make one or two things that put

people on the ground, knock on doors in georgia and kansas, the districts where those members are, investigation committees are in the house and senate and make that the primary focus. one or two issues. republicans have done better than we have at that. democrats have got to do better going forward. >> so, joe, you mentioned this should be what obama looks for. could hillary clinton help in districts like this? actually think about it. >> i think she could. >> i think she could among certain democrats. >> i agree. >> who feel embittered. >> i think you could find a few of those. >> brm could help. jeremy peters, if you're barack obama and you put together a political team in 2008, bring the team back together. if you're a democrat you have the most important mid term elections. >> probably since '06.

>> i would say since 1974. who knows? they are absolutely critical to the future of this democratic party. >> it's funny. i was talking to a young democrat yesterday. he was looking at the iowa caucuses in 2020 and i said honestly, i have no idea. there is no leadership such a vacuum. the sclerosis in the democratic party is so overwhelming and crippling that they do not have a bench. they do not have leaders. >> that may be the problem. >> yes. >> harold ford, they're talking about '20? >> we're talking about right now. >> they need to take the senate back or the house and the senate is just an uphill climb. if the democrats want to have any possibility of checking trump's power. >> state legislative races across the country, that's where

members of congress are trained, attorneys general are trained. that's where the focus has to be. in addition governors races next year, including in michigan, ohio, florida. if a democrat or group of democrats win in those states in southern california they emerge as that. with the laser like focus that republicans have over the years. that's been one of our challenges. >> we're always looking for the national race. >> yeah. >> let's put this in perspective, richard. >> i'm not arguing at you. >> yeah, jeremy. >> in government service, even before, when you were in high school, when you were in college, democrats controlled the house of representatives from 1954 to 1994. right? it was a democratic party's town because they ran the house.

and now 2017. i mean, this is -- the democratic party, they have to stop worrying about 2020. they have to worry about 2018. >> today. >> democrats are essentially, pardon me, asleep at t switch. republicans targeted all sorts of state races, legislature and senate, and those states that are very close. they won control of both houses and now what we're seeing at the federal level, years and years of quiet effort with very little money had outside results and consequences of taking overall sorts of state houses. it's now going to take the democrats ten years of concerted work to do this. >> much more than that, richard.

organized, well-funded effort on the ground by conservative groups and the kochs are just part of this. they've gone after school boards, state's attorneys generals. not just legislators. it's really this overwhelming effor effort. >> this has been the key to giving them control. the way to control washington is through the states. and the republicans figured it out. the democrats literally missed it. >> by the way, the democrats have just as much money as the republicans do. where are they spending it? >> i don't agree with everything howard dean did. one thing he did do that i totally agree with, he invoked the 50-state strategy. president obama did not invest in states. that's one thing this new chair and something that president obama could do in the coming months and years, perhaps. >> and you have to find

candidates that are culturally connected with the districts where they run, that are progressive on economic issues but culturally connected with the people who will be voting for them. >> rust belt candidates don't look like -- any how -- >> in just, jason candor. what's striking about the difference in the parties right now look at the 2016 presidential election. rubio, ted cruz, scott walker. they didn't ultimately win. of course, they lost to a baby boomer. they are of the reagan generation. people overlook the fact that ronald reagan's influence on that group of people, there really isn't -- the generational change hasn't quite caught up with the democratic party yet. >> you're right. >> how about taxes? whether that's the right issue or given where we are, why wouldn't democrats be marching in favor of health care? it seems to me those are the

issues that -- >> and you can impact. >> whether truch releases his taxes or not. that's not going to impact your life. >> and it's not going to be because somebody protested. >> affordable care act approval ratings have sky rocketed. they're in the 50s now. >> this is your moment. get it right. >> urban areas where you have big pockets, do you know what the number one issue is? violence in communities across this country. and democrats are not -- have not develop aid winning message or even ideas of how to address this in a comprehensive and systematic way. we've got a ways to go in addition to figure out what g n grabs the moment. back in 2012, donald trump called barack obama the least transparent president ever. what does that say about him now that he wants to keep both his taxes and white house visitors a

secret. kristen welcome joins us with that and jeremy bash joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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breaking with precedent set by the obama administration and will not release its visitor logs. freedom information act requests was announced in the ultimate of friday news dump. you put it on a friday so that nobody gets to it. this was on the afternoon of good friday. so, it was the ultimate. the washington post editorial board writes about the secrety, quote, for decades and particularly since president richard nixon's administration, public pressure has led

presidents to become steadily more open with citizens about how they conduct business and more mindful of ethics. major party candidates have released their tax returns, revealing information about their finances and any potential conflicts of interest and, as of the barack obama presidency, the white house has released voluminous records on who visited the executive mansion grounds so scitizens could know who was meeting with the president and his staff. the latest news is that mr. trump will not routinely release white house visitor records. judging from his public statements, mr. trump calculates that there is little to no political price to be paid for flouting norms of ethics and openness. but his dismal poll numbers consistently show that americans question his honesty. a time may come when he needs to ask the american people to have confidence in him after undoing

the nation's progress toward transparency, he may find that the reservoir of trust is very shallow. kristen welker joins us from the white house. >> reporter: as you point out, this was released on good friday. let me tell youhat thwhite house is saying about this move and then we can break down the criticism on the other side. they say this is for national security. grave national security risks, they say, are at stake here. and also privacy concerns of the hundreds of thousands of visitors annually. i spoke to white house officials and said what's going on here? they said look, we want people to feel comfortable coming to meet with officials here at the white house, to provide information that may be in the nation's national security. now, how is this different than the obama administration? under president obama, he announced he would release logs. he wound up releasing about 6 million in total. there were some caveats. for example, they didn't release the logs of those visiting the

first family and those visitors who did have highly selective information like supreme court justices, for example. so this administration is pointing to some of those caveats and saying under the obama administration, this was certainly faux transparency, because they didn't release all of their logs. they got to pick and choose. but the bottom line is, there has been a lot of backlash about this tirksly from government watchdog groups who say this is a step in the wrong direction when it comes to government transparency. what can be done about it? a group of senators have sent a letter to the white house, demanding they reverse course in this, including senator gillebrand, reid, among others. that doesn't seem to have any bite. the only recourse is to file formal requests and, of course, mika, that takes time. will these logs ever be released? they will be, about five years after the president leaves

office. >> jeremy, i was semi right. people used to know. now they don't, or won't. >> kristen is completely right, the obama administration's transparency was not full and complete. the trump administration does have a point there. at least obama gave the press something. there was some measure of disclosure, no matter how much of a fig leaf critics said it was. it's not just the timing of this, but why? the explanation of we want people to feel safe, that's absurd. >> it's a little discomforting not to know who is influencing the president, who is around the president. who is going in and out of the people's house. >> exactly. this is the people's house. taxpayers have a right to know. >> ethically challenged to say the least. >> the president probably should set conditions for the kinds of things he won't disclose. president obama, to his credit

laid out a set of protocols and thresholds. that's one thing. for what he's doing, i do hope all those are made. if it makes its way through the court, the country deserves the press and others to make this case. >> this is really another example, though, of precedent going out the window with this administration. just, you know -- >> you're right. >> different things that we have always expected presidents to uphold. >> that's right. >> that are just going out the window. it's very hard to get back that kind of precedent. >> kristen welker, thank you very much. moving on now, a full bench on the u.s. supreme court today as neil gorsuch takes his seat as the nation's newest justice. joining us from washington,

justice correspondent pete williams. pete, justice gorsuch is set for a busy day. >> it will be the first time we have all nine justices since the 14 months ago when antonin scalia died. last two weeks of courtroom argument in this term, that could include one of the most important cases. on the other hand, it might not. with the controversy over his confirmation over, will he take his spot at the end of the supreme court bench. that's where the newcomers are, restoring the court's generally conservative 5-4 majority. that could make a difference in a case involving religion and government, closely watched case, a claim that missouri discriminated against a lutheran church by leaving its preschool out of a program to improve school playgrounds. missouri says its constitution says the state can't give money

indirectly or directly to churches. justice gorsuch may play a role in choosing cases to be heard next term. late last week the newly elected governor in missouri said the state will no longer automatically turn down requests for money from churches so that case might go away. the court has asked lawyers for both sides what the court should do, given this new development. >> pete williams, thank you very much. joe, obviously, it's a big day. >> oh, it's a big day. i think there aren't a lot of cases where we're going to see space between justice scalia and justice gorsuch. we'll see what the impact is. there's always a surprise. >> some difference in 4-4

decisions, can the court go back and revisit those decisions? i was asked that question over the weekend by someone. and i don't know the answer to that question. >> especially because robert is so protective of what the court takes on, somebody would have to -- >> i don't know the answer to that question. my instinct is no. but i don't know the answer to that question. >> to your point, joe, if there is distance between what scalia would have decided and what gorsuch would have decided and the howling of protests on the right to appoint someone who is even more -- these justices do surprise from time to time. what a ziesive factor it was in the election.

th >> is anybody expecting gorsuch to be more conservative than scalia will be disappointed. i don't see him occupying the space that justice thomas occupies. vice president is in seoul this morning, warning north korea that the military strike against syria and afghanistan earlier this month can also happen there. we'll talk about that with jeremy bash next. you're going to be hanging out in here. so if you need anything, text me. do you play? ♪ ♪

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just in the past two weeks the world witnessed the strength and resolve of our new president in actions taken in syria and afghanistan. north korea would do well not to test his resolve or the strength of the armed forces of the united states in this region. >> that was vice president mike pence, during a joint news conference with acting president of south korea this morning. during his visit to the dmz, the vice president said the united states will abandon the policy of strategic patience and noted that the u.s. needs to see more from china. joining us now, nbc news national security analyst, jeremy bash, former chief of

staff at the cia and department of defense. >> north korea has been an intractable problem. but we have to figure something out, obviously. the clock is ticking. how is the administration doing? >> well, in some respects, the silent treatment that secretary tillerson gave and that secretary mattis gave over the weekend is the right approach. you don't want to give too much attention to this dictator. but there are a couple of tweets from the president that were troubling. we're going to take care of this problem on our own. that signaled military action. most of what vice president pence said was a standard fare for visiting officials, about reassuring our south korean allies. he also turned the screws a little bit and said don't count out president trump, he will make north korea pay, if he will. >> i wthought you were about to say he will make north korea

great again. >> no. >> you talked about the credible threat actually might move north korea in combination with working very closely with the chinese. >> national security idea that you basically put together, fit together credible threat of military force along with diplomacy. that's kind of what it's about. the idea that we're doing that, through china, indirectly or directly ourselves, we put a diplomatic action on the table. it's quite possible. the best outcome from china's point of view, they like korea so much they want there to be two of them. but one way or another, they will try to have a deal here. >> how much control does china have over north korea? i can't believe they haven't paid off everybody. if they need to move, they can move quickly. >> they also control that major

land border and enforcement of goods across that border is lax. they could tighten that up and starve the regime. one option that's been out there is a naval blockade. it's a bit dicey. you would need china's cooperation and easily circumvent that blockade from going to china. >> china's problem is that they want this resolved but don't want to bring down north korea. they could shut down the border and the economy anyway new york minute. they're worried about the consequences. >> what are the consequences? >> war on the peninsula, massive refugee flows into china. they are still worried about unified peninsula with seoul as its capital. >> and so let me ask you, how much influence do you think china has on the leadership in

north korea? >> i think china, on the leadership -- on north korea as a whole they have an enormous influence. could china bring about regime change, which is what a lot of people are asking about? maybe. that might be something they ultimately do. >> you talk a little bit about how the danger of north korea launching a cyber attack. >> north korea does have capabilities. i wouldn't put them in the very top tier, like china or russia, for example. they have strong capabilities. we saw that in the hack of sony, they're ability to take advantage and try to embarrass, compromise information. that showcased some of their abilities and i would worry they would be doing things against south korea, against japan and our other allies.

>> jeremy bash, thanks. >> thanks for being with us. another big event that elise and i think -- >> this is huge. >> 1 million people tuned in on saturday. jeremy, this is important. >> i'm going to pay attention. >> national security consequences. >> social media sensation. april the giraffe and the birth of her new calf. and it's a boy. pregnancy of the 15-year-old giraffe caught the attention, chronicling the giraffe's pregnancy. a four-how are video posted to youtube has wracked up 14 million views. an online ten-day contest to allow the public to vote on a name. april's calf's.com. you showed me a picture. >> the legs are so gangly. >> it's perfect.

i'm sorry. i had to do, swroe. it's not a puppy. >> it makes us feel better. >> it's interesting that it's a giraffe. it's a zoo in upstate new york. we want to support good zoos not bad zoos. >> as long as you don't now say i want a baby jury zplaf i'm going to get a goat. >> she has three dogs, two cats, three chickens. >> i didn't. >> you think that's the end. two rabbits. now she's saying she wants a goat. >> i do. >> goats are great! do not encourage her. >> they're escape artists. they are. you have to really entrench the fence. >> we're getting out of here right now. no goats. >> the little mini ones. liberty mutual stood with me

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cleveland for the suspect accused ofderly man and posting the video to facebook. steve stephens is being described as armed and dangerous. joining us from cleveland, ohio, to talk about this sad -- such a sad, tragic story. >> reporter: joe, good morning to you. the manhunt has spread beyond ohio now. neighboring states of indiana and pennsylvania, in paicular. police are asking people to be on the lookout for this man. this happened o easter sunday, an awful story picked out by random. the video you're about to see is graphic and upsetting. this morning the city of cleveland is on high alert. police and the fbi scrambling to find this man, suspected of posting video on facebook that shows an execution in broad

daylight and claiming to be responsible for multiple other murders. >> find somebody to kill. i'm going to kill this guy right here. >> reporter: horrifying video appears to show the suspect identified by police as steve stephens getting out of his car and telling his victim he's going to die because of a woman. >> yeah. she's the reason why all this is happening to you. >> reporter: stephens raises a handgun and fires a single shot. his facebook page is now no longer active. >> driving me crazy, started gambling. i lost everything i had, man. >> reporter: claiming a woman he was dating made him snap. >> the people i'm going to kill today easter sunday is not my first. >> reporter: the suspect also makes chilling claims that he has killed others. his claims have yet to be verified. >> what happened today is senseless. if steve has an issue, he needs to talk to some folks to get that resolved. law enforcement officials say

they have not locate ned additional shooting scenes or bodies and are asking stephens to reach out to family and local clergy for help. >> we're asking him to turn himself in. we've brought partners, our state and local partners. we want him to turn himself in. if that doesn't happen, we'll look until we find him. >> the vehicle they're looking for is a newer model white four-door ford fusion with temporary ohio tags and police say if you see that vehicle let them know. 911. do not approach this man. he's considered armed and dangerous. >> thank you so much. greatly appreciated. richard, the world is keeping close eye on what's going on this weekend. elections in france, obviously, a lot of people worry about the success there. >> what are you looking at. >> not just his success. this is the first round of the french election. run off between the two top fingers will be sunday may 7.

you got him on the far right. also got a guy on the far left. bear with me here, either one, if they would win. >> i mean, come on. >> i'm from the red neck rivera. >> you have at least two candidates if they were to win and either could. polls show things neck and neck. end french participation in eu and nato. >> so what is the hope for the godless globalists. >> there's two candidates there. used to be the economics minister, another conservative candidate, but my point is simply you know how the race in france literally the post world war ii history of europe. the future of europe is up for grabs. >> let me ask you this, one of the great failings in european politics from 30,000 feet that hasn't been a strong party that

stepped forward that said we understand. we think open borders with the eu is bad as well. we think the fact that our french identity has been lost over the past 30-40 years. france is not america. our identity centers around immigration. that's not the case in france. so is there a candidate over there that can say i share your concerns. we've got to be tougher on who comes in here. tough immigration here, but we're not going to close ourselves off to the world. i think what would happen if either one of them were to win, the establishment candidates. make a beeline to berlin to talk to merkel and say can we have some reform of europe to better balance the relationship between brussels and national capitals. the european union has gotten it

wrong. >> have more in common they did before. he could be there until 2029. my daughter kindergart kindergarten. he could be there until my daughter is a junior in high school. you don't believe that will have influence on the far left period. more syrian refugees may find their way into europe. particulari . >> what worries me is how there could be some type of terrorist. imagine there were a series of bombings going on in one of the suburbs of paris. >> that could help la pin. >> absolutely. you mentioned now the far right and far left. both sour of nato and want less french vomit in nato. are they favoring a third candidate. >> recently spent time in moscow. >> did that hurt her with the french voters. >> not at all.

my guess is we will find various forms of russian, quote, unquote, involvement before we're done. >> taulk if you will a little bt about the difference between her and her father. her father was easy to dismiss as a extremist. i'm not saying she's not. she's smarter in how she uses language and appears more sen tryst. she's sand papered off some of the rough edges. still gets out the dog whistles however you say that in french. she is much more capital to appeal to people on the left. it's a populist nationalist. a lot of her message now is economic. much more than it is racist. it's a subtle and i think dangerous method. >> i thought you said it right the first time. >> we have the cham part. can't get the whistle part.

>> still ahead, i will say one of the great failings in european politics is not having somebody who says we understand. we have open borders. this is insanity. >> this is insanity and we're french and we're proud of being french and we're going to protect our culture and we're going to protect our nation. and do that without being a racist. we have been asking a lot of people in the media suggest if they were to make that statement they would be a by gigoted it. knocking on doors. thousands of protesters hit the streets to man donald trump to release tax return. is that the most effective way to show resistance. i think not. former ambassador to south korea. christopher hill. morning joe back in just a moment.

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hey, i've got the trend analysis. hey. hi. hi. you guys going to the company picnic this weekend? picnics are delightful. oh, wish we could. but we're stuck here catching up on claims. but we just compared historical claims to coverages. but we have those new audits. my natural language api can help us score those by noon. great. see you guys there. we would not miss it. watson, you gotta learn how to take a hint. i love to learn. everybody, shut up so i can finally apologize. spicy finally made a mistake. donald trump recently bombed syria. in defending the decision, i said unlike syrian leader, the

leader of -- son of a -- what is his stupid name. >> at least hitler never used chemical weapons. everybody freekd. okay. they were all like boohoo. what about the holocaust centers. yeah, i know they're not really called holocaust centers. duh. i know that. i'm aware. i clearly meant to say concentration clubs. okay. let it drop. >> that was fantastic. the easter bunny. north korea was the big issue over the weekend. north korea didn't test a nuke, but did parade troubling new weapons. missile test was a dud. >> none of them worked, but they will. they tried. >> they can only put program into overdrive now.

are things better or worse than they were 72 hours ago. plus, president trump is noting his easy victory in the electoral college. while criticizing protesters for not putting the election behind him. he did those things in the span of two tweets. with us we have the president of counsel of foreign relations and author of a world in disarray. former democratic congress man and former aide to george w. bush white house. good to have you all on board. happy easter. >> you love the eggs. >> they were so good. delicious scrambled eggs. you can tell when they're raised with love. >> exactly. i'll bring in more. maybe you'll get some richard. >> i want to talk about north korea. you wondered what was going to happen. a lot of theories out there, but we'll get -- let's get to the news first and then get

richard's take on a strategy that he says might be working. hours after north korea unveiled what appeared to be a large number of new and advance missiles. fired a testing ballistic missile likely from submarine that barely got off the ground before exploding. at club inebrated the easter holiday and let the pentagon do the talking. gym matt i guejim mattis releas sentence statement. president and military team are aware of most recent unsuccessful missile launch. president has no further comment. >> speaking at the -- >> let's stop there quickly. this is something that screams for a tweet from donald trump. you get a sense everybody around him said you want to tweet at meryl streep, that's fine, but a tweet that pushes this as mccain called him fat crazy kid in the

corner could actually start something serious. there was a pretty good bit of restraint this weekend. >> this has been disciplined. hr mcmaster on one of the shows. what the president didn't tweet and this looks to be quite choreographed. very strong dploep si with china. continuing to play the china card here. really working closely with beijing. >> how about a third option? how about china. you know china is there. china has already sent a message. we know you promised to launch here. it would be in your best interest for this launch not to be successful. >> in a funny sort of way. even more worried about north korean missile advance right now than nuclear war head advance. they've got pretty much the weapons. worried about the long range missiles.

distance and accuracy. could be an external thing. could be the missile test failed. failed missile tests before. what it shows the essentially the entire conversation changed. for a couple of decades this has drifted. new administration sayings we're not going to tolerate this. strateg strategic patience is over. it's now come to a head. if you don't want a massi iive crisis on the korean peninsula that could involve war, you had better use that influence you say you don't have that you know and we know you do have. >> you seem to think this is a good thing. >> absolutely. i think the combination of credible threats and chinese engagement as opposed to letting it drip and possibly signals that the united states might be prepared to accept something less than as a first step complete north korean denuclearization. could be setting the stage for something. >> speaking at the demilitary rised zone just steps from north korea, vice president mike pence said all options are on the table 6789.

latest missile tests fits into a pattern of provacative and destabilizing threatening behavior on the part of the north korean regime. i think there's an international consensus now including the chinese and the chinese leadership. as long as they continue missile development, they get better and learn lessons. so what's critical is for them to stop this destabilizing behavior, stop the development of these weapons. and denuke rise. >> you worked in the state department.

>> i'm still anxious getting ambassadors around these regions. we need one in north korea, chinese and japan. i do think it's quite promising general mcmaster was speaking about this and he's in afghanistan. administration showing they can manage multiple crisis and they are engaged. not just with north korea, but around the globe. >> and china, remember the president started off with china supposedly because of the taiwan call. right now, as of today, you've got to say they've played it pretty well. >> i would agree. i think his tweet called chinese a currency manipulator. working with north korean problem. see what happens. exactly you shouldn't hold china. >> do need personnel. this is interesting. i guess the question i would have for him and this may be the right thing, what -- if some speculated there's a way to take

out this young leader that mr. mccain has a unique way of describing him. what confidence or ideas do we have about who might emerge as a successor. we talk about iran and parts of the middle east. and young populations of very educated people may emerge of leaders. perhaps i'm unclear and uneducated about this region, what happens if he is removed. if it goes a step forward and take it one step back, what kind of influence does china have as americans think about this. >> short answers. this is the hardest intelligence target in the world for the united states. most opaque con try country. if he would disappear tomorrow from natural or unnatural causes, we don't know who would take his play or whether anyone could take his place. we simply don't know. he is chief international

security diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. good to have you on this morning. >> admiral, thanks for being with us. do you agree with richard that the president's team has put together a good strategy. i think it looks like it. we'll know more as events unfold. sort of three buckets here. richard did a great job of describing the first one. china. and in the end, i agree. the road to pyongyang runs through beijing. other two buckets are signer and special forces. covert program and the third one is very overt which would be direct strikes like syria, like using the mother of all bomb to go after the deep and hardened targets over there. the second two strategies are going to cause a lot of instabltd as he recalled juarol

you do the decapization option. kept getting driven back to that strategy. so far appears that's the road were on. >> thank you very much. much more on this straight ahead. what can the trump team learn from predecessors when it comes to north korea. rick help lead the obama state department. talk to him ahead on morning joe. where's frank? it's league night! 'saved money on motorcycle insurance with geico!

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so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount outside the capital in washington. call can go on president trump to release tax returns. the president and his administration have repeatedly dismissed those calls siting an audit by the irs. and saying the issue is only important to journalists and liberal politicians. in berkeley california, 13 people were arrested after

demonstrations and trump supporters clashed at a pro-trump rally on saturday. police say things escalated when heated words were exchanged. fights spilled into the streets and objects like rocks and bottles were used as weapons. president trump weighed in saying i did what was almost impossible. easily won the electoral college. now tax returns are brought up again. he continued, someone should look into who played for small organized rally yesterday. election is over. harold, what do you make of that. >> they obviously weren't able to stop these tweets. i think a couple things, he's right. he won. as much i want to see the tax returns released. i hope it goes through the senate. seems smaller now talking about matters at the beginning of the show and what seemingly dominating washington politics today and world politics today. no doubt if i were in congress,

one of the things i would try to do is join with a few republicans to pass an amendment anyone a nominee of a party should have to release turn r urns. it's not clear the effectiveness of these rallies at this point again. talking about such witty matters on the world stage. >> i've got say the fact we're talking about tax rallies instead of talking about a judiciary being undermined or talking about the press being enemies of the people. talking about some of the other things when white house was taking authoritarian tones the way they were. this is actually -- >> the rally should be in the districts of congress and perhaps republican congress if you want to do this. >> have these rallies in georgia where you have an election tomorrow. >> probably more effective. >> that's a question. do democrats win in georgia tomorrow. maybe all of these rallies

create excitement, but if they don't, then at least the question is completely of disconnected from what the electorate wanted. >> this is where i think the story actually matters. president trump is also weighing in on last week's special election in kansas. giving a prove of how he thinks tomorrow's special contest in georgia will play out. ron estes beat at democratic james you will remember. taking to twitter the president wrote the recent kansas election, congress, was a really big media event until the republicans won. th now they play the same game with georgia. bad. speaking yesterday, senator bernie sanders suggested democrats didn't do enough to support tompson in the election.

what i think has happened now. it is true the democratic candidate lost and should have put more resources into that election, but it is also true he ran 20 points better than the democratic candidate for president did in kansas. >> what do you think? especially looking ahead to georgia. >> these could be markers. >> maybe bernie sanders is right. maybe they should have looked back. that was a district the republicans have won easily. >> yes >> that trump won easily. that pompeo won easily. it was closer than expected. >> uh-huh. >> that's suggests some kind of trend. >> worst looking at. >> in georgia tomorrow, georgia is a district that donald trump only won by one point. this georgia district. if republicans hold on to that seat tomorrow, then you can't say harold that there's been any gain by democrats.

i know it's georgia. i know it's the deep south, b democrats. i'm saying if i'm a democratic, we have to win this seat no matter what. just a plus one seat for trump. >> which again to you point about some of the rallies we saw over the weekend. some of the energy around. don't get me wrong, i think his tax return should be released. that's where the action should be. i don't disagree with your characterization. if it's a close race, there will be arguments, but if democrats win in georgia, it will be very hard for president trump. >> coming up on morning joe. are republicans making the most of recess from capitol hill. digging into that. joins us live from the white house. straight ahead on morning joe.

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steve, snding before me are my two top advisers. i only have one photo in my hand. that's right. tonight is elimination night. been a lot of drama in the house

and that's okay, but one of you must go now. who gets to stay. jared, you take the most beautiful photos. >> steve, you take the worst photos i've ever seen in my life. photo in my hand represents the man who will be staying tonight. if you do not see your photo, you must immediately leave the oval office. oval office and join kellyanne conway in the basement. who will stay on as top as visor is jared. have a seat at your new desk. i'd like you to just fix everything. okay. if you need me. i'll be over here at my desk. okay. >> so now they're trying to do

it to jared too. >> no, no. foreign crisis have taken the spotlight off the fighting in the west wing wall. new reports devil deeper. new issue at vanity fair and report by sara elson details the drama inside the white house between presidential son-in-law jared kushner and senior counselor steve bannon. sources tell the magazine bannon had repeatedly threatened to quit the administration if he were ousted from the national security counsel. almost like they were calling his bluff, said one source. this as the "new york times" reports how first daughter ivana trump has been battles bannon. reporting in recent weeks, she has spoken bluntly about bannon's shortcomings to the president. especially incensed by article she believed were planted by bonbo bannon's allies suggesting he, not her father, honed the populist economic passengmessag helped sweep the midwest. she made that point to her

father. ivana trump is not relishing the white house battles. according to vanity fair, telling friends, quote, i didn't ask for this. bring in "new york times" at the table. what do you think of that reports. >> here's the thing everybody misses. there is no internal battle. >> when you take on, whoever is in the white house, when you take on the family you lose. that's kind of like who is going to win the battle tonight. between 8-year-old son and joe where they're trying to figure out what time the 8-year-old son is going to bed. you can write as many articles as you want to write about that, i'm just not going to lose. i win that -- no, i'm just saying. i'm going win that battle. >> it's complicated. >> all of this talk has been so exhausted. why didn't they just pick up the phone and call cory and say, how

does this end? you know what, the family wins. >> do you not feel that steve bannon has hastened own demise. >> yes. >> he started to attack three to four weeks ago. jared kushner out of left field and the second people started calling me from inside the white house and it was a lot of people. i said what do you think is up. i think he's stupid. that's what is up. he's going to lose. this is obvious stuff. >> people who are smart on certain vectors can be really dumb on other vectors. i think he was doomed before then. the cardinal rule of washington and human nature is you do not eclipse the person whom you are supposed to be serving. bannon from a very early point let legend grow extremely large. dangerously large. to some extent had no control over that. we in the media do it. >> can i had to that. since the horrible inauguration speech he helped write.

horrible just horrid absolutely worst in history. he has not put any points on the board. in fact, it's been all failures domestically up until now. i believe bannon put himself in front of that. thought he was the fixer on everything and was a disaster. >> the pass is always prologue and people in the white house are starting to look at past. they're starting to say this guy always ends up blowing himself and people around him up. >> talk about carnage. >> some of the houses he's lived in. the past is always prologue and politics. show me somebody's past and if they've done it over and over again. they're going to do it in the future. >> coming up on morning joe. long time ambassador christopher hill is just back from south korea. what he learned about the

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good morning the vice president mooins effectively putting the north korean regime on notice saying that it could be in for the same sort of treatment as syria and afghanistan if they don't tone down. visiting the region to give security assurances at a time when south korea is certainly looking for them. he visited earlier today the demilitarized zone and stair directly into north korea and soldiers staring back. he said that all options are on the table. not saying what the options are and how they differ from those that haven't worked in the past. coming at an anxious time. last 48 hours. had massive military parade in pyongyang showing off missiles and launchers and what experts believe is a prototype of a new

intercontinental ballistic missile. and then hours after that, the failed missile launch. the medium range missile that blew up just seconds after it was launched and embarrassment for the regime, but certainly not good for the united states and the rest of the region. still seen as a step towards developing the capability of north korea's arsenal. >> nbc, thank you so much. live from seoul. and also the dean of the school of international study as the university of denver. former u.s. ambassador to south korea and former assistant secretary of state for east asia. christopher hill. jeremy peters and jordan back with us as well. ambassador just back from seoul. >> what you think the administration is set up to be. >> first of all, i think south

koreans have been very worried about north korea for some time. they've had essentially cuban missile crisis there for years, but tlaif also been worried about the new administration what the new administration will be doing. it's been very important they're looking forward to the visit of vice president pence to try to check signals and figure out what trump does next. what don't know how kim jong-un will react to latest failure. will he have another test. often been the case. we have a long way to go on this crisis. it is need to stay close to south koreans and japanese another place i visited in the last few days. they were also very much. >> as the ambassador said looking closely at what the u.s. is doing. what difference are they sees.

now as opposed to the o admistration 6789 learned of strategic patience has run out. >> i guess tactical impatience. one of the things about mooiike pence going to dmz. 35 miles from the north korea border. one of the things we're not talking about is 10 million. that's from here tole white plains. one of the things that people aren't talking about is i'm not nuclear war head on it. they send tactical weapons into seoul, that's a city of 10 million people. that's direct ally. we have to come in and fight. that's something nobody wantings. i have to say what general mcmaster said yesterday saying no options off the table, except for war. big option.

>> i would be curious what you think of the trump administration's language towards north korea at this crisis point. do you think the tough talk has been helpful or harmful. >> well, my impression is the tough talk may have been -- north koreans it probably scared -- the picture will be for example we're sending up a carrier task force, the vincent carrier. so that's going to be up there near north korea. lett say they have a nuclear test. what's the carrier going to do. return back to home part. going to do something up there. a lot of questions about the issue of when you apparently bluff are you prepared to follow through on a bluff. that's what no one really knows. what they do know is the administration is taking this issue seriously.

understands the fact the president doesn't within the to go before the american people in 2020 and say, well, we looked at it and gave it a try. weren't able to stop nuclear program. >> how would you rate the administration's handling of it and the president's team. >> so far so good. they have certainly understood the need to talk to china and talk to china very directly and i think with some real specificity there it's positive getting out to japan and korea first with the defense secretary then the secretary of state now the vice president so i would give them good remarks so far on this. i want to emphasis this issue has not gone away. no sign whatsoever that kim jong-un has decided to change course and yet that's precisely what we need him to do and ideally we would like him to do that without some kind of war fighting. as rick said, it's not only 10

million. there are 20 million south koreans within artillery range of north korea. when you talk about preemption and things like that, better have been very clear with south korean allies about what we intend to do and have some agreement on that otherwise we create a historic problem with the ally that we really must protect and strengthen. >> rick, as the ambassador mentioned. china is a key player here. if you're the chinese and talking with the trump administration right now, what are you telling them y need to come to the table in order to take a hder line. right now of course as we've seen, they have not been as aggressive. they've been more passive than americans would like to see. >> no one talks about chinese really fear korean reconciliation. the last thing they want is the collapse of the north korean regime. countries coming together like germany did after the fall of

the berlin wall. that's what president xi was lecturing president trump about at mar-a-lago. the other thing again asked me for what's the difference between obama administration. what you have in kim jong-un is an irrational actor who craves attention. sounds familiar, right. we didn't give him that attention. now we're giving him that attention. that's something he craves. the thing i would love to hear. i would love to hear what chris thinks about this. p 5 plus one talks including china about north korea. that to me would be the way to go you're never going get them to get rid of that weapons, but they might actually talk. >> we haven't had p-5 plus one, but we have had the six party talks. the idea of six party talks was to get the chinese involved and get the koreans at the table, the kreeoreanskoreans, russians

japds japanese et cetera. if there is a demise, i don't think would be a particularly bad day if that happened. i think it is important that the u.s. makes clear to china that we would not take strategic advantage against them and wouldn't put listening posts up on the river or u.s. troops. so i think there needs to be some understanding there. i also think there needs to be a clear understanding with the south koreans. we don't want to be talking to the chinese about the future of the peninsula without talking to the south koreans. so their mantra would be nothing about us without us. we need to be fully engaged on this process. and so you know we have a long way to go. so far so good. i think there's an understanding of these different elements and i guess president trump said it himself. i talked about this for ten minutes and realized it was more complicated than i thought before. >> ambassador, thank you very

much. he's finding everything is, mr. ambassador. >> really. >> thank you very much for being on the show. president trump's top environmental official is calling for the u.s. to pull out of the paris climate change agreement. epa administrator scott pruitt is now one of the highest ranking white house officials to explicitly reject the agreement which has been endorsed by nearly 200 countries. >> paris is something we really need to look at closely. it's something we need to exit in my opinion. it's a bad deal for america. it was an america second, third, or fourth kind of approach. chinese china and india didn't have any obligation until 2030. we front loaded all of the cost. >> reportedly set to gather tomorrow to discuss the fuchl of the paris deal. >> pruitt asteve bannon are bot against this. >> it's stupid to get out of

this. first of all, it's voluntary. the biggest problem is coming from china and india. not from the united states. and we finally got them at the table. this is a china and india second third fourth fifth. we're already going through the possess of cutting emissions. why would we get out of a deem that actually pulls other people. >> because bannon says we should. >> it's so stupid and counterintuitive. >> bannon wants it. >> you said it. >> that i don't know, but china now is positioning itself as the leader, the global leader on the environment after the obama administration basically put us ahead. one of the flaws i think in the trump administration logic about these collective agreements is that somehow bilateral agreements are better than corrective agreements. i'm telling you, negotiating 28 bilateral agreements around energy policy is harder than coming to paris agreement. really done by john kerry who just was there over and over and over. something he devotely believed

in. devoutly. >> make an important point about the administration showing favoritism to bilateral agreements that are just quite frankly imaginary. you remember all the talk about ripping up the iran deal from day one in office. when has that even been mentioned by the administration. that we have all these european counter parts not necessarily going to follow us. >> somebody needs to explain to somebody in the administration that we actually have to make sure that china and india stay at the table. because the united states is already cutting carbon emissions. we're doing a better job. one of the hidden stories of the past decade. we have been doing a better job cutting carbon emissions. now we have them at the table to do and so why walk away. >> there's tangible evidence

these policies work when they're enforced. we were growing up. remember the stories about the filthy smog hanging over los angeles and los angeles has become this heavy lu polluted city. it still is in a lot of ways, but the reduction of carbon emissions and more stringent fuel economy requirements we put on cars, it's improved. these things work. >> yes. let's ruin them. >> isn't the business communityovcommunitmajor womeningly in favor of staying in paris. >> yes. administration well, what bannon says goes. investigators a little bit nervous this morning. rising tensions you've been talking about all morning are factors in. coming off the best week for

treasury. since back in january. gold, is enjoying a nice little rally. popular places that investors go to hide when there are concerns. never easy to gauge the economic impact of confrontation or escalation with a country like north korea, but the uncertainty factor. the fact military action is potentially on the table, certainly keeps investors on edge. other big theme we're watching is earnings. earnings season kicking off into full geerl today. netflix reports results. going to be about subscriber number. looking to add another 5.3 million subscribers and united airlines reported earnings after the bell. interesting to see how the ceo frames the whole crisis around doctor to investors. the stock lost all in all about 2% last week. analysts don't think it's going to have a material impact on united business, but clearly sit

a pr crisis and disaster. we'll get more commentary on hour they're going to change business practices and the third item i would be watching today and throughout the week beyond go politics and earnings is the french election. first round voting starts on sunday and there's also increasing nervousness around this one as populist candidates both from far right and now from the far left are serging in the polls. going to be close. only a few percentage points separates some from the more populist extreme candidates who want to change negotiations with the eu and potentially the euro. could have a market impact as well. >> sara eisen, thank you very much. >> little follow up. united loves our pepsi loves united. pepsi had the ad. >> did you see the poll? the morning poll that came out on the pepsi ad. people liked it.

>> i don't know who they're asking. >> they probably tested it themselves, right. >> 44% had a more favorable view of pepsi after watching the ad. 25% had a less favorable view. a whopping 75% of latinos said it made them for favorite nl ab >> it was still tone deaf. if you have an ad that 75% of latinos are more favorable towards your ad, guess who did not fair well? kendall jenner. >> they should take back. >> saw jenner in a more favorable light. 75% of latinos. 75 pgt of latinos who watched the ad had a more favorable

view. so the people who were offended by this ad were white people. >> yes >> they didn't like the -- some other poll, might have been that one, the photographer that offended a lot of white people in polling. that was negative. >> so it was like the weird, strangest thing. i mean quite frankly just racist that pushed people against this ad. >> we all apologize to kendall. >> up next, going to go live to the white house. mark is standing by with latest reporting on the most important issue of the morning. and that would be, the eageaste roll. >> there's spicy. >> stop it.

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in a moment, how well republicans are using their recess. we'll bring in mark halperin live from the white house for his latest reporting but first a look at some of the stories we've covered so far today. >> north korea didn't test a nuke but they did parade troubling new weapons. >> what we're basically telling china if you don't want a massive crisis on the korean peninsula you better use that influence you say you don't have. >> we don't know how kim jong-un will react to this latest failure. >> i think the approach has been right to date, but i think we have to be careful not to go so far as to actually provoke him taking preemptive action. >> new reports delve deeper, details the drama inside the

white house. >> there is no internal battle. >> he has not put any points on the board. it's been all failures. >> yes. >> domestically until now. >> people who are really smart on certain vectors can be really dumb on other vectors. >> they're trying to figure out what to do with him so he doesn't hurt them on the outside. i wonder after being in the fox-hole with mcmaster and the foreign policy team and looking back at his domestic team and seeing spicy there and bannon he's like oh. >> trump is disavowing a lot of his more simplistic policy statements he made on the campaign trail. >> donald trump is sending a message to his people here, he cares about winning and does not care what did you for him yesterday. >> demonstrations were held in 150 cities across the country. >> protesting in atlanta don't hold up signs and chant, knock on doors. if they win the georgia maybe all of these rallies create excitement, but if they don't, what difference are they making? >> this is your moment. >> look, get it right.

>> the sclerosis in the democratic party is so overwhelming they do not have a bench, they do not have leaders. >> my easter service yesterday, they said, you know, i've got to be nicer on tv. i've got to figure out how to not be so direct. >> sweet like the easter bunny. joining us now from the white house -- >> so i'm going to try tomorrow. >> like spicy. >> will you stop saying that, stop saying spicy. >> the easter bunny, he would be a good one if he did it again. may be daerg when he did that. he was a great easter bunny. >> he was a great easter bunny. >> mark halperin, help us here, what's going on at the white house? >> the easter egg roll is taking place, president and first lady, like the big public event of their presidency so far, but they're focused on that like a laser beam. >> they're here. this event goes back to the 1800s. wouldn't want to miss it. >> rutherford b. hayes i think.

>> is he bringing his baby. >> is your baby here. >> he's not. i'm going to bring him by remote by face time. >> mark, what are the republicans doing over their recease? are they using it wisely. >> if they are there's no obvious sign of it. i've been talking to them about the lessons of the health care failure. look at the dynamics that led to the party getting rid of the affordable care act, not only are all those dynamics still in place, the things that led to failure, but more dynamics more negative doing the things they need to do including the democratic party being more emboldened and empowered. they have to come back and keep from a government shut joun and health care before tax reform or taxes. >> has anybody figured out why the president has veered back to health care? >> yeah. there are two reasons i'm told. one is, this has been widely discussed and reported a good story in the "wall street journal" about it today, if you don't do health care first, the

taxes and the affordable care act are out there and you have to deal with them some other way. there's cost savings in the house plan. you get -- you deal with thorny tax issues and get a little cost savings to make your tax cut bigger in the tax reform. second, though, is if they don't do taxes -- if they don't get health care done they don't have any mow mmentum. and people are starting to realize tax reform isn't that easy. but it's not going to be easy because as i said, all the same dynamics are there that led to failure. >> insanity. they're running the ship into rocks. it didn't succeed the first time, let's run it into rocks again tomorrow. >> yeah. if they -- they think tax reform is going to be complicated, i mean there's just -- it's hard. mark is right, there's not enough money to do tax cuts if they don't solve the health care problem first. how they solve the health care problem first is beyond me. >> the degree of difficulty for

health care is so much higher than everything else. i don't -- even though you have to do that first. i would just skip that at this point. >> got to skip it. >> any way to skip it? >> logistically? mark? >> well, look, they're still trying for democratic votes in the abstract, but they're also still spending more time trying to get the freedom caucus on board, ram it through with just republican votes. even there, you see why things are more complicated. they've got two strategies but those two strategies trying to get the republicans united and bring democrats on board work in cross purposes. >> mark, elise here, maybe i'm missing this, but what exactly are they planning on doing differently with health care round two? what are going to be the changes that bring people on board behind the health care plan? >> well, there's -- again, there's two things there. one is, the realization on the part of some republicans, including some in the freedom caucus, that this can't be -- this can't be a failure. they can't lead off with a failure on something they've promised nearly a decade and the

other is, they're trying to get people in the room to get people on board in both the center of the party and further to the right and simply talk it through, find a deal. i don't know how many votes short they were before but it was not an insignificant number. there's skepticism in all quarters but again if you drop health care and go to taxes that's not easy. i will say the recess got one more week, when they come back they can't focus on the choice between health care and taxes because they have to avoid a government shutdown and have to get democrats on board for that and that is going to be super complicated because chuck schumer and nancy pelosi are feeling more empowered than they did at the start of this administration. >> a lot on their plate. strong team. mark halperin, thank you very much. enjoy the easter egg roll. >> here's the big problem is, they haven't figured out how to get it through the house. if they got the republican votes to get it through the house they wouldn't get it through the senate. >> which is the problem they had beforehand when they couldn't get it through the house that time. you know -- how does that work then? what would you do, joe?

>> you get 170 republicans and you get 40 or 50 democrats. >> democrats have absolutely -- feel no political pressure right now. to work with republicans. >> a good politician figures out how to put pressure on them. >> we continue the conversation tomorrow. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> good morning. i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. breaking overnight, on notice, vice president mike pence makes a surprise visit to the dmz. >> the era of strategic patience is over. >> fight for transparency, protests across the country pushing the president to release his taxes. >> i think there's something in there that he wants to hide. >> now the president responding as the administration announces all white house visitors will be kept secret. plus, manhunt, police across multiple states in an all-out search for this man after he killed a random stranger, then po