example and on the iranian nuclear deal with his secretary of state taking a much tougher tone on that late yesterday. back to you. >> thanks to hallie jackson for that report. >> that's a wrap for us. i'm alex witt alongside richard lui and louis burgdorf. the obama administration failed to respond adequately to tehran's mall line actions. as of too day we are officially putting iran on notice. thank you. >> iran is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism and is responsible for intensifying multiple conflicts and undermining u.s. interests in countries such as syria, yemen, iraq and lebanon and continuing to support attacks against israel. they continue to support the brutal assad regime, promoting the conflict that has killed

nearly half a million syrians. iran conducted cyberattacks against the united states and our gulf partners. iran continues to have one of the world's worst human rights records. the evidence is clear, their provocative actions threaten the united states, the region and the world. >> two months after then national security adviser michael flynn dramatically put iran on notice, secretary of state rex tillerson yesterday with more targeted rhetoric against that country. we'll have what it means for the nuclear deal and the implications for the tense standoff with north korea. plus, one of the biggest names in cable news is out. we'll break down the media and economic implications of fox news parting ways with bill o'reilly. good morning. it's thursday, april 20th. with us here in washington, we have washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay, "new york times" reporter jeremy pete e, political commentator

cokie roberts and chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker. in new york, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, president of the council on foreign relations and author of "a world in disarray," richard haass. good to have you all on board this morning. great show. >> let's start with iran. >> all right. secretary of state rex tillerson announced yesterday the trump administration is pursuing a comprehensive review of the obama era policy in iran. he admitted that the cntry is in compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal struck with the obama administration, but also said the deal was a failure and iran was still a threat to the u.s. and the rest of the world. >> an unchecked iran has the potential to travel the same path as north korea and take the world along with it. the united states is keen to avoid the second piece of evidence that strategic patience

is a failed approach. iran continues to support the brutal assad regime in syria, prolonging a conflict that has killed approximately half a million syrians and displaced millions more. iran supports the assad regime even as it commits atrocities against its own people, including with chemical weapons. this deal represents the same failed approach of the past that brought us to the current imminent threat we face from north korea. the trump administration has no intention of passing the buck to a future administration on iran. the evidence is clear, iran's provocative actions threaten the united states, the region and the world. >> of course, tillerson went on to say what most foreign policy experts have said for some time, that iran has been the epicenter of terrorism since 1979.

you actually watched tillerson yesterday moral impressed by what you saw. >> the first time out of the box i've seen him speak. he came off well, to sound shallow. >> that's what this show is all about. >> i think the bigger argument -- optics are important. the bigger argument is what it took to get that deal in place and i'm not sure this administration has a sense of that yet. he sounded good. >> the thing with rex tillerson that we've seen is tillerson, richard haass, has told people around him he's going to learn the job, not going to get out front too quickly because he doesn't want to have to correct himself on the record. so i think it has been a slower rampup than a lot of people are comfortable with. he is moving forward there. let's talk about the iran deal more specifically. the president has said that he was against the iran deal, it was one of the worst deals ever

struck. at the same time it is a hard deal to unwind, is it not, especially since barack obama front-loaded all the benefits for iran. >> the iran deal is arguably a flawed deal, but not a failed deal. that's where the secretary of state got ahead of himself yesterday. >> i agree. >> inconsistent with where the united states is tuesday night, essentially certifying iranian compliance with the deal. it's not the deal i would have negotiated. i think the united states wanted the deal too much, agreed to certain things it shouldn't have. that's the only deal we have. if we want out of it, we'll isolate ourselves, not iran. i think the reality is iran is doing many things that the deal has nothing to do with. for example, imperial push for influence around the region. that is a strategic challenge to the united states and partners around the region. in the narrow nuclear sense, the deal is parking this problem,

not solving it, parking it for a number of years. the challenge probably for the next administration is going to be what do you do when some of the dealing, some of the limits on iran expire? how do we then make sure iran doesn't break out and build all sorts of capacity. ironically, i want to say one other thing, the secretary and others need to be careful about trashing this kind of a limited -- time limited deal because quite honestly it's the only approach that may work with north korea. we may have to do something similar there. >> but cokie, i heard strategic patience, the age of strategic patience is over. for those of us who worked up during the cold war, strategic patience, it was containment. we're just going to wait them out. what's so different here is the clock is ticking on north korea, the clock is picking for the people of seattle and portland.

not to be mel dramatic. >> north korea is scary. >> a scary situation. it seems like they're now applying strategic ik impatience to iran is well which is peculiar. why go after iran right now when we've got all these other problems. i was curious listening to secretary tillerson talking about support for the assad regime because i'm not clear where the trump administration supports the assad regime. it's been very unclear about whether they think assad has to go or not. if that's a reason to go after iran, where are we in all of that mix? i think it's just an odd thing for him to be doing right now when we have north korea staring us in the face. >> seems to be another instance in which the administration is causing foreign policy confusion to allies around the world. we have -- it came in clearly with donald trump saying this was the worst deal america had ever struck and he was going to rip it up even during the

campaign some of his foreign policy aides rode back from the idea of it being ripped up. during the first few months of the administration, the iran deal was nod going to be ripped up. now we have secretary tillerson out there talking tough about iran. it's another instance when you have different members of the administration with different terms. you have vice president pence telling the u.s. troops in japan you have to be ready for some kind of action against north korea. at the same time you have other members of the administration, mcmaster, staying we are going to stop short of military action. there is an element of confusion that reflects a lack of clear strate strategy. >> i think the message that donald trump has said he was going to deliver and the message that donald trump is delivering is that i'm not going to tell people what my next move is. i'm going to keep them guessing.

that's on one side. the other side is, and we've said it all along, his obsession with his branding, strength, strength. you attach all of these things -- here is the interesting thing, peter baker, our allies actually, for the most part -- we'll put angela merkel over in another corner where her hand is not shaken. but most of our allies like this american approach. >> well, they like american leadership in the world. they like a robust american presence in the middle east, europe and asia which they felt, rightly or wrongly, that barack obama was not exhibiting, that he had retreated too far. >> they don't like america leading from behind. >> but they do like predictability and reliability. the problem with this administration among the allies is they don't know where they're going and what they're going to do. if you're living in the baltic,

what you want to know is the united states will stand with you if russia starts to do something. that strategic ambiguity that president trump has been fostering over the last few months leaves people like that feeling uncertain. >> on nato -- nato has certainly been cleared up. >> turning a corner. >> you talked about syria, cokie, our policy is we're going to strike out against atrocities committed by assad -- >> there are atrocities every day. >> cokie, you know that chemical weapons crosses a red line, the international community has said for years is a red line. there are wars across the globe. but again, the international norms. >> 2 million syrian children who are refugees right now. what are we doing about them? nothing. there are all kinds of atrocities going on. what we seem to be seeing and

it's just these one-offs of saying we're tough, and i don't think that gets you anywhere. >> i'm not so sure that they're one-offs, though. i guess that's the question. that's what we see over time if the dots are connected. >> if they're more than just one-offs, that would seem to be a violation of the central tenet of whatever trumpism is in foreign policy. remember, he campaigned to the to get us into more stupid wars. when you look at what he's doing with iran and how he may be moderating somewhat -- not going to, on day one, as he promised in the campaign, a republican prerequisite for running for president, promising to rip up the terrell deal on day one. now that he realizes he can't do that, peter has written about facing the steep learning curve that is the presidency. so reconciling those campaign promises which are a central

part of his brand, living up to those, is pretty difficult when you are suddenly the prats. >> mika, what he's found is that -- what this administration has found is the last administration pretty smart at putting things in place that are harder to unwind. domestically barack obama considered his biggest achievement the affordable care act. that's proven to be harder to unwind. the foreign policy -- the iran deal is what he wanted to get done from the beginning. again, they front loaded the benefits so much for iran that you do sit there and go, gee, how exactly do we unwiebd this deal now that they've gotten all the money. >> and things are more deeply complicated once you get into office, and you see all the fine print. north korea's weapons program has been under pressure from a frequent ally. editorial of the chinese newspaper "the global times" which sometimes reflects the thinking of china's leadership. in an editorial on april 12th,

the global times wrote chinese society would approve of severe restrictive measures that have never been seen before, such as restricting oil imports to the north if pyongyang engages in further provocative activity. a global times editorial said china can no longer with stand the continuing escalation of the north korean nuclear issue at his doorstep. it also warned north korea to be mindful of the american military action, quote, not only is washington brimming with confidence and arrogance following the missile attacks on syria, but trump is willing to be regarded as a man who honors his promises, "the noble times" wrote. they wrote as for china, the denuclearization of north korea is a priority that sits above

all of its interests. >> mike barnicle, that's fascinating, to say the least. that the chinese are, it appears, at least through this paper and other ways, starting to put pressure on the north korean that they just never have in the past. >> joe, it's also an interesting buy product of the meeting in palm beach that the president of the united states had with the premier of china. richard haass, i'm wondering, given there's fairly optimistic tones in that editorial, at least a new version of the chinese propaganda towards north korea, but yesterday at the same time as we get this published we have the vice president of the united states on the deck of an aircraft carrier in tokyo bay sort of rattling sabres. what story is best for us? >> i think the chinese came away from mar-a-lago with the understanding that 20-odd years of allowing this problem to

drift was coming to an end. this administration decided north korea was fast getting to the point of reaching something that would be intolerable for the united states. chinese don't much like the north koreans, they recent them, see them as ungrateful for the help they get. the chinese are sending signals. there's been a big debate in the foreign ministry in the military about china being close to north korea. now it's surfacing, which suggests that theoices saying we've got to rein in north korea are getting strongerment they don't want to see a war on the peninsula. they're worried one day south korea or japan might get one which would be a strategic nightmare for china. i actually think the trump administration with all of its rhetoric probably persuaded china to do more than it's ever been willing to do with north korea. so this is lining up okay, very different than the iran thing which again i think is misguided and cokie is exactly right, we have too many things on our plate.

i think the north korea policy is beginning to line up. >> richard, you've heard i'm sure what i've heard which is that actually the meeting, as you said in mar-a-lago between donald trump and president xi actually went very well, and it may be because of the bellicose rhetoric through the entire campaign, maybe trump -- we always said, he goes in hot as a real estate developer and then draws back and gets a good deal out of it. >> i think the chinese understand that this situation just can't be allowed to drip. the trump administration also showed some discipline here, more than other issues by not invoking a trade war with china. they took the taiwan issue off the table, haven't been talking a lot about human rights in china or the south china sea, they persuaded the chinese that the beginning and end, the test of the u.s.-china relationship

for the next year or two is going to be nrk. i think it's quite possible we'll see unprecedented chinese pressure on north korea. what i don't know is whether the limits of chinese pressure, whether north korea will react, the chinese got the message that this administration is prepared to use military force. that's something the chinese don't want to see. >> the trump administration denies it spoke too quickly when it claimed more than a week ago that the "u.s.s. carl vinson" was heading toward the korean pns. last week defense secretary mattis said it was prudent to have the ship in this region at this time. here is how he clarified things yesterday. >> -- we said we were going to change the vinson's upcoming schedule. the vinson, as i said on the record, was operating up and down the western pacific, and

we're doing exactly what we said. that is, we are shifting her, instead of continuing one direction as she pulled out of pi singapore, she's going to continue part of her cruise down that region, that she was on her way up to korea. we don't usually give out ship schedules in advance but i didn't want to play a game either and say we were not changing a schedule when, in fact, we had. >> "the new york times" reports south koreans feel, quote, cheated after u.s. carry miscue. the "wall street journal" went with the headline "duped by trump" excerpting a chinese news site declaring media around the entire world have been duped by trump again. one candidate for south korean president, member of the ruling party there told the journal if the warship claim was alive during trump's terms, south korea will not trust what trump

says. >> we care more about what the north koreans think about us at this moment. katty, what happened? >> my understanding is that the president got this information from the pentagon, that there was the vinson in the area, they could send it up to the korean peninsula, but the timetable seems to be what was confused. mattis' clarification only made me a lot less unclear about what was happening. if you read through it carefully, it does sound like what he's trying to say is, listen, we will send it to the korean peninsula, we weren't going to send it there immediately. >> finish their exercises first and then send it up. >> and then send it up there. for donald trump who is a man who likes to be seen to project strength and project strength now, he said we're sending that armada, it's going to be great. again, i think it was a little bit of the risk of trump over hyping something that didn't live up to promises. and allies like south korea being left feeling, was this

deliberate deception or a snaf few or miscommunication between the pentagon and the white house. >> jeremy peters, you have enemies like north korea scratching their head trying to figure out what's going on. >> competency issue. >> part of it feels like an episode of "veep." part of it feels like just a genuine miscommunication, misunderstanding. this is what i don't understand. so it's going there, right? >> right. >> so what's the big deal? >> cokie, that's what i was thinking yesterday. everybody was trying to figure out where it was charted. by the way, if the north koreans are a little confused. a great dizzy dean quote, in the end while he was a great pitcher. he said sometimes it's not a bad thing for the batter to think you're a little crazy. david ignatius said, sometimes it's not a bad idea to put the chinese back on their heels. nothing to it.

>> you don't want to be seen as slightly incompetent. >> you know what, though, i've got to say, when you're going up against the north koreans, i might be the only one that says this, when you're going up against the north koreans, just like about putin. putin is back on his heels right now for the first time in probably ten years. we struck him in syria when he thought that he had played donald trump. >> and how has he responded? >> how has he he responded? >> to support syria more strongly is how he's responded. >> i still don't think he's responded -- >> i doubt this was intentional. >> i don't think it was. >> what you're saying is this was a really strategic idea. >> i'm not saying that. i didn't say that, cokie. it's not a big deal. i'm saying, if it gets the north koreans guessing a little bit, that's an advantage. >> i think they're guessing a lot. >> the chinese, who know where

our boats are are scratching their heads saying, do they know where their boats are? >> i think what the chinese are saying, son of a bitch, we're going up against somebody like us. we're going up against -- >> i don't know if it's good or bad. >> -- against a very president that doesn't play by the rules. that may be bad, may be good. i do not think the chinese think for one second that we've lost one of our ships. they're thinking we're using the sort of deception they use. >> deception is one thing. what katty said, the incompetence question. do they actually know where their boats are? the chinese play a long game, rich knows this better than i do, they look at this and say is this something where they have intent or they don't understand what they're doing? >> richard, the chinese obviously have to be intelligent enough and sophisticated enough to know that donald trump was

projecting strength to the world and that we did not lose an aircraft carrier, that we knew exactly where it was and we were playing a game with the north koreans. >> i assume they know we know where our aircraft carriers are, part of a larger story where they find us almost impossible to read which, as you say, may not be the worst thing. south korea is in the middle of a presidential campaign, highly nationalist candidates running. if the nationalist candidate wins, it will make it far, far more difficult for the united states to sustain a tough policy towards north korea and that's the problem here. we can't have an independent -- a policy towards north korea that's independent of south korea given the millions of people who live in seoul in range of artillery if there is a confrontation. we have to keep jan pan and south korea on board. the dilemma is the

unpredictability that may help us with china or north korea hurts us with our allies. that's something that the administration has got to internalize. >> richard, let me ask you on the allies front, the allies that you have spoken to over the past month or two, do they like where u.s. foreign policy is going more than they did under the obama administration? >> the allies in the middle east like the tougher anti iran bias and rhetoric. europeans, by and large, are uneven with the anti eu, uncertain about russia, uncertain about nato policy. i think in asia, the south koreans -- i think the japanese are more comfortable than the south koreans. the president hurt himself in asia by taking united states out from the big asia pacific trade agreement whichever one else paid a political price to join. they are having real problems understanding this

administration which is qualitatively different, joe, than any american administration they've ever experienced. >> still ahead on "morning joe," we'll continue this conversation, but we have to get to the fall of bill o'reilly. we'll talk about the huge implications in the media landscape, plus donald trump appears to be on a collision course once again with judge curiel. we'll explain that. and my exclusive conversation with former obama senior adviser valerie jarrett, her first interview since leaving the white house. she's the longest running counselor to the president, all eight years. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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yesterday fox announced, quote, after a thorough and careful review of the allegations the company and bill o'reilly have agreed that bill o'reilly will not be returning to the fox news channel. the decision came after revelations from "the new york times" that he and fox parent, 21st century fox, settled multiple sexual harassment complaints to the tune of $13 million. o'reilly put out a statement that reads in part, quote, it is tremendously disheartening that we part ways due to completely unfounded claims, but that is the unfortunate reality many of us in the public eye must live with today. i will always look back on my time at fox with great pride and the unprecedented success we achieved. with my deepest gratitude to all my dedicated viewers. i wish only the best for fox news channel. >> mike barnicle, this is more

than a story about tv, more than a few people said last night, this is a guy who had the number one show on cable news for 15 years that in large part i think redefined what the republican party was, what the conservative movement was, along with fox news. fox news over the past 15 years has been basically the heart of the republican national party. >> joe, you can't underestimate the political cultural impact that fox news and bill o'reilly has had on this country. it's much larger than a media story. the presence of fox news and the presence of o'reilly, the most popular cable show host on that channel, on any channel actually, to be honest about it, had an extraordinary impact on further dividing america

politically, categorizing america politically. it gave people who felt the media had become distant from them a place to go. >> mike, let me just tell you, the media had become distant from them. >> i'm not arguing that. >> my friends and i would watch news and just laugh at how culturally isolated it was, and fox was a place for people to go that didn't want to be looked down on and mocked and scorned the way that they were when there were three networks and two national newspapers. that is the reality. did they take it too far? yeah, but there's a reason fox news was fox news. >> the reason it was successful. >> there's a reason it was successful. >> the key to their success was when people felt they had found a home politically, ideological ideologically, culturally at fox news, they stayed there, they

didn't leave the house. they weren't channel surfing. the incredible part of the story today is the pace, the swiftness of change that came about within fox news based upon, what, you'd have to say money. once those advertisers left bill o'reilly, boom, he was gone. >> but really we have to talk about the fact that the advertisers went away because of women. the fact is that when i started in the workplace sexual harassment was just part of the day. >> rampant. >> you had to put up with it. but the idea that women could bring him down by just telling their stories is a very powerful messa message. >> it wasn't just a dollar figure thing here. because those advertisers weren't really leaving fax, just

leaving "t"the o'reilly factor" and shifting to other parts of the network. the question is whether or not this is a broader change and the influence that the murdock children who were long suspicious of roger ailes. my friends managed to get this quote from matthew freud. i am by no means alone within the family or company being ashamed and sickened by roger ailes sustained disregard of the journalistic morals that we hold dear. >> do we make over the entire network? is anybody else in the family's crosshairs right now? >> i think you have to look at somebody like sean hannity and question whether or not his -- almost propaganda-like attitude and programs every night is going to be acceptable in the minds of the family, which is

clearly trying to shift the network. >> it's also confusing because he does it in russian. go ahead. >> it would be nice to think that fox news had fired bill o'reilly for moral reasons. after roger ailes left the network last december, they continued to pay settlements in order to keep women quiet accusing bill o'reilly of sexual harassment. i think what's behind this is rupert murdock wants to buy sky news in the uk. there's a review coming up in the middle of may and will look at, quote, whether the new owners are fit and proper. they didn't want sexual allegations in the same sentence as fox news. >> i love the fit and proper, first of all. i think it's a wonderful way of describing. but the fact that fit and proper is not appropriate to sexual harassment -- you can't be fit and proper and having sexual harassment, that's new. >> there may be ridiculous

reasons, and business reasons and money driven reasons. but this will prompt a shift of fox news which seemed to be locked in the early '90s. we've been in this business for a long time. almost 30 years if not more. >> me, too. >> i don't get that kind of behavior that you hear about at fox news. it did seem to be extreme. >> in the early years i definitely saw a lot of it. it wasn't sexual harassment. there are specific cases here in the bill o'reilly, roger ailes saga that are serious and they stand alone. but i think all women sort of felt sexual pressure to look, to sound, to be hot, to wear certain things. >> there were certain people you knew not to be alone in a room with. >> in the elevator with. every woman knew it, the elevator could be a dangerous place. >> what i don't like about what

bill o'reilly said in his statement -- lots, but it's the implication that this is a function of being in the public eye. the vast majority of men in the public eye are not accused of repeated cases of sexual harassment. it's not true. >> mike barn al. >> a lthere's one other element that should not be let go. it is this. within that building i'm told repeatedly be many people that bill o'reilly was universally loathed. he had no net to catch him once all this began, no one to explain -- not that you can explain his behavior. he was also a hypocrite on air as opposed to off air. those two factors, the human nature aspect of this story is almost equally compelling as to his fall. >> big picture, fox news, the conservative alternative, joe -- >> i know we're all focusing on

bill o'reilly and what's happening for the past two weeks. you have to look at what's happened over the past 20 years. when i said that they rewrote the landscape for news, i wasn't just saying that to say, oh, they've divided america, i can show you some left wing outfits that have divided america. so that's just bs. if that's your takeaway from 20 years of fox news, it was such a part. it still is such a part of people's life outside of manhattan, washington, the coast. cokie, i'm sure when you go south, i know. when i go south it's in every -- >> every nail salon. >> not every nail salon. they turn it on in the morning. my house it was that way, my parents' house it was that way. yes, we're talking about what happened over the past couple weeks. again, peter, they not only

revolutionized what happened at fox news, they revolutionized what happened at television and made people not only in broadcast tv but cable tv and at the big newspapers go, wait a second, there's a part of this story that we are missing and there's a reason why fox news is crushing all of its competitors. >> they expanded the market place of ideas, democratized in some ways the media which had been, as you said, monopolized by a few small corporations, media outfits and newspapers. that's a good inning this. there's nothing wrong with that. the downside is if, in fact, we have a country divided by people who watch one network and another network and have completely different sets of facts, can't have an argument because they're dealing with a different starting point. there are views expressed now and allowed to be expressed that had been basically ignored and

marginalized for a long time. >> that's probably what fox did so well. it was not only what they covered and the way they covered it, but how they told you this is what the other news outfits are not covering and are not telling you, we'll tell you. that i think was such a central part and will remain a central part of what fox news is to its viewership. >> there's a great piece that we'll get to in "the atlantic." talked about the cultural continued sense of late night comedians, and if you want to understand why conservatives are resentful of the media, read this mepiece and look at late night comics. that's why fox news exists. ann coulter who i find objectionable -- i'm separating what has happened, that part of it. we're talking about the media. we're talking about fox news as it has fit in this culture. >> it's better for them to be in a position where they are

conveyors of ideas and not have all this other stuff. >> i completely agree. >> they can go on and thrive and prosper. >> i completely agree with that. i'm just saying we can't -- we can't see bill o'reilly stepping down without looking at what this means, not only for the media landscape, but where we are in 2017, what it means for the political landscape. this is an earthquake. >> and it will be interesting to see how fox news -- sean hannity would be an interesting case. does fox news now in other ways feel it has to change its message? i think for the network that would be a mistake. you said, joe, for decades, conservatives in america felt the playing field was not level when it came to the media. they couldn't win elections because their voices could not get heard. >> they still feel that way. >> fox news, by becoming the number one cable channel and with shows like bill o'reilly

becoming the number one show, they single handily redressed some of that balance. roger ailes was the architect, bill o'reilly was the presenter of the vision and they changed how conservatives felt about their ability to get their views out. >> one of the questions right now for fox more broadly, are they going to be the conservative network or are they going to be the pro trump network. the trump presidency presents a challenge. during the primaries they were tough on trump at various moments. megyn kelly because a symbol of that. how many times did trump have to call murdock or ailes and have a summit. now that he's the president, are they going to represent the conservative voice which is not always supportive of what president trump is doing, or are they going to be -- >> that's the question for the entire conservative movement and for the entire republican party. >> that's where handy factors into this as well, because of his coziness with trump, our

colleague jim rutenberg has reported he's helping trump with his messaging at at times. it's trouble for the murdock family. they have no problem being the voice of conservatives, they have a problem looking like a propaganda megaphone for the administration. >> coming up, did the obama white house see it coming? former senior adviser describes the final few days leading up to the election. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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the white house today, president trump hosted the super bowl champion new england patriots. not only did the players meet with the president, one made a surprise appearance at sean spicer's daily press briefing. >> we'll see what pans out in the negotiation, i think there's an opportunity -- can i just. >> need some help? [ laughter ]. >> i think i got this, but thank you. maybe. >> thanks, i'll see you in a minute. >> in case you don't know, that

was rob gronkowski asking if spicer needs help. i don't think i've ever seen a person more in need of help than sean spicer. >> still ahead, the 100 mt influential people in the world. "time" magazine with its 14th list. you were on it, right? >> no. >> i think you were, including several names sure to stir debate. we'll reveal all five covers ahead on morning. joe. liberty mutual stood with me

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so, a new -- we're talking about so many different things on this set right now. >> sem. >> all right, guys, focus. new quinnipiac university poll puts president trump's approval rating at 40%. 56% disapprove overall. a positive swing for the president in this poll. on personal qualities, 58% to

38% of voters say trump is intelligent. just 42% say he cares about average americans. 40% say he has good leadership skills. just 37% of voters say he's honest. 35% say he shares their values. only 33% call him level head zpld bottom line he's up six point zpls a poi points. >> and that's what you thought would happen. >> too soon. >> no moves post-syria and sort of getting on solid footing on foreign policy. >> let's hope it stays that way. >> this quinnipiac poll has always trended lower for him. i think we may be seeing the effects of -- >> i wonder if they've ever asked before if a president is level headed. >> right. the questions are interesting. yeah. >> it was a new one when -- >> 33% think he's not crazy. >> before the election in the exit polls they asked the

question, does the thought of a trump presidency frighten you. >> i know. >> and four out of ten voters -- >> i sometimes look at the questions skeptically as well because they can be leading. >> you look at the bottom line there. >> the numbers that jump out are the ones about sharing people's values and caring about people. >> that's his worst. >> for a president that ran on a populist campaign of helping people who are struggling and are working class and middle class, those are bad numbers. >> right. >> having boosted his number business projecting american strength around the world, he has to have some wins here at home. and he has to have wins that actually materially improve the lives of people -- >> i think that's the key. it's wisconsin. it's michigan. it's ohio. it's pennsylvania. it's those white working class voters that felt abandoned by the democratic party that voted for obama eight years ago, voted for trump this year. he has got to figure out how to start reaching out to those

voter. >> and that means legislation and having some success. >> a ted cruz poll is coming up, showing ted cruz behind in an early poll, which we'll get to in a little bit. secretary of state makes the case against iran. we'll get much more from richard haass. we'll be right back with more "morning joe." ♪ ♪ after becoming one of the largest broadband companies in the country. after expanding our fiber network coast to coast. these are the places we call home. we are centurylink. we believe in the power of the digital world. the power to connect. and that's what drives us everyday.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday. it's almost friday. >> it's nice been having cokie on. >> cokie is the best. she's nailed it and puts you in your place, joe. >> cokie is one of the few people on this set that disregards producers and -- as much as we do. we'll just be talking. >> unlike you, joe -- >> they're saying go, go, go. >> i've been listening to producers for 50 years. >> which means you haven't been. okay. with us here in washington, we have political commentator npr news cokie roberts, peter baker from "the new york times." >> he's great. >> from bbc world news america katty kay. and robert costa and in new york, mike barnicle and president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. >> bob costa, we've got a lot of

foreign policy to talk about. let's start with o'reilly, specifically fox news. we were talking about before the importance that fox news has played in conservative politics the past 20, 25 years. you've cover aid lot of conservative politicians, lot of races, republican primaries and races. is there any way to overestimate the impact fox news has had on the political landscape over the past 20 years? >> you no he that phrase in politics, personnel is policy if the people matter inside the administration? you can also apply that to this situation. robert ales was running fox news you had a true conservative heavyweight at the helm. it has this history of being a force on the right and among republicans but if you don't have ales at the top and some of his allies, like bill o'reilly, there, the ability for it and

the longetivity of it comes into question. >> the amazing thing, katty, i would hear stories out of fox news five, ten years ago that roger ales would get everybody together at the beginning of the day and it was just like a white house. he would say this is the message of the day. for the most part. these are the things we're interested in. roger ales ran the entire ship like a political campaign, presidential campaign. and, again, for better or worse, you love it you hate it. that's not really significant. your feelings right now don't really matter. we're talking about the impact, cultural impact of this network. nothing like it in american politics until that time. >> no. and it really was ales and o'reilly gave voice to ales' intellectual expression of conservatism in america. the obvious replacement is somebody like steve bannon who

has that same intellectual depth when it comes to the conservative movement. >> the brothers would never let him through the door. >> no. >> again, that is another part of this story, the changing culture of fox news. >> yeah, because the brothers wouldn't like it. whereas ten years they might well have liked it. >> they'll never do it. >> you used to have this in american politics with newspapers. newspapers were partisan. and you could sit on the new york subway and know what party somebody was from the newspaper they were reading. when they all got homogenized and fairly liberal, conservatives were saying wait a minute, where is my newspaper? >> rigger messaging with a genius for visual television. so he got both sides of the equation. he got how fox needed to look

fantastic and be kind of whiz bang and always moving fast. >> but i think the definition of looking fantastic was really bad for him. >> hold on. hold on. >> that's different -- >> let's separate it out. you have that side of it. >> right. >> you're talking about the women and the short skirts and everything. but also you had producers at msnbc, i remember, and people when i first got to the network looking up at the screen and saying -- watching things flash across the screens. >> the speed, the graphics. >> watching car chases. >> quick. >> ales, let's not strip this down to roger ales and bill o'reilly and women as well. that's a huge part of the story. but, again, look at it, changing the entire media landscape, there will be executive producers looking at fox saying how does shep smith make a one-hour newscast seem like 15 minutes? and it was -- fast. >> whiz bang. >> it wasn't just political.

it was his talent for visuals. he had a real knack for what is going to excite the viewers. you're right, mika. on the women's side it was dark and there was a side to it that was not right but i'm just thinking in terms of the graphics, lighting, studio, bringing up the maps, the images. like you say, joe, did he it better than anybody else and sooner and faster than anybody else. >> yeah. and, again, separating mike barnicle from, again, the dark side of the story which, again, it's not that we're trying to avoid that part of the story because, trust me, it's been reported. it will be reported. and it has been reported. >> and it should be reported. >> and it should be reported over and over again. but, again, just talking about how this impacts a media landscape and politics, roger ales was, in part, like donald trump in another respect. he didn't play by the rules. he was an outsider. and he did things that nobody

else on tv would dare do. >> part of roger ales' innate genius, and it was genius. we report. you decide. and you underlined the "you." and he basically took a cable channel and turning it into a power by making that cable channel comfort food for conservatives who had felt drifted away from the political system. rightly so, i think. i think we already addressed that. it ends up 20 years after the formation of fox news where the different media markets, people, individuals, consumer of news swimming in their own news channels like a swim meet. nobody crosses over. you're at fox news, you're at fox news. msnbc, you might switch back and forth, but fox news is a

dedicated audience. it's attributed to his genius. what's not attributed to his genius is the arrogance that resulted in long-term behavior of people like bill o'reilly. >> nailed it. >> mika, it's amazing how quickly this happened also. one year ago. one year ago, fox news was at the top of their game. bigger numbers than ever before. >> they're still good. >> their numbers are still great. but at the same time, they have to figure out where they're going to go. >> they have to reinvent themselves for the new era anyway. it was easy for eight years when they had president obama in the white house to position themselves as the voice of the opposition, voice of truth to an un -- dishonest liberal establishment.

and how do they position snemsz. >> they're in the same position republicans are in. >> they are. >> which is interesting. >> which is something, by the way, when trump emerged on the scene, something they were worried about on the inside there. >> yep. for sure. >> because, like you said, it's much easier when you're the opposition party to barack obama. it's quite another thing when you have donald trump who split their prime time anchors right down the middle. >> and hasn't given anything to work with. where do they stand? where should they stand? how dangerous is it to stand with trump? >> i guess the question is, is this presidency going to be the president of trump or trumpism? if it's the presidency of an idea, that's something fox news can latch on to. if it's just going to be about trump, the man, which is what the family seems to want, that's a harder prospect. >> very interesting. i do think they need to put some women in top positions there.

>> the women who have been in top positions haven't done very well by women so far. >> right. maybe some new ones. secretary of state rex tillerson has announced yesterday that a comprehensive review of the obama era policy on iran. he admitted the country is in compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal struck with the obama administration but also said the deal was a failure and that iran is still a threat to the u.s. and the rest of the world. >> iran is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism and is responsible for intensifying multiple conflicts and undermining u.s. interests in countries such as syria, yemen, iraq and lebanon and continuing to support attacks against israel. iran continues to support the brutal assad regime in syria, prolonging a conflict that has killed half a million syrians and displaced millions more. iran has conducted cyber attacks against the united states and

our gulf partners. they toin to have one of the worst human rights records. iran's provocative actions threaten the united states, region and the world. >> this is important. cokie, you were saying you understand what mika was saying but as far as rex tillerson goes -- the guy did run one of the biggest national corporations. you heard nothing but praise for him. that guy was recognizable. >> totally, in a way that donald trump isn't to me. rex tillerson looks like all the people i grew up with. >> yeah. >> and i think when he has come on the air and made speeches that he has done quite well. as i said earlier, i find this iran business puzzling. but i do think that his affect is one that is comforting. >> and i don't know if donald

has the ability to see things this way because he wants it to be about him. approximate but when you talk about steve bannon, sean spicer, it's kind of embarrassing. those are trump decisions. these guys, rex tillerson, mattis, kelly. >> mcmaster. >> mcmaster. they are trump decisions and they represent him well. i still think he wants it to be about trump but they are. >> they actually are. >> i wonder if he will allow that to be. >> you said policy is personnel. i think as we all try to get our arms around the first 100 days of donald trump and, of course, most of the stories are going to be negative and most of the focus are going to be on negative things, bob costa, one thing you have to look at is the foreign policy team that donald trump assembled which, again, shows the confidence to have people around you who know their stuff. >> now that flynn is gone.

>> now that flynn is gone. >> exactly. >> definitely. >> for sure. >> i think the president is still trying to find the techo on domestic policy. who is his mattis, kelly, tillerson, who has the gravitas on domestic policy sne? he's looking to speaker ryan to guide him. he doesn't have a tight rapport with many of these members in congress. can he really get it together on the domestic -- >> i completely agree. >> figure out who is going to be running the white house operations under him the same way these guys are running his foreign policy. that is the key as to whether he will have a successful policy. more on the reaction from tillerson from inside iran.

ali? >> reporter: thank you, mika. so far no public comments on the latest developments. when america talks tough on iran, it doesn't usually go down well here. secretary tillerson had tough words on iran. so close to the elections on may 19th will infuriate the ruling establishment here and upset the apple cart, especially hard liners who opposed the deal in the first place. none of this bodes well for the president who favors better relations with the west and is seeki seeking re-election. if a hard liner replaces him, it will be very difficult to negotiate with iran again. the man who holds all the cards is the supreme leader. the buck stops with him and he only reluctantly gave his approval to the deal and has continued to criticize the lack

of benefits it has brought and his message that america only wants to harm iran and can never be trusted. he has already warned of consequences if the u.s. violates the terms of the deal. he will probably want to pull out but would rather america did so. iran doesn't want to be blamed for the deal coming apart. that's why they're adhering to it for now. but if the pressure continues to be put on, does he fire up the program again or try a different strategy to create a wedge between america and the five who negotiated the deal and are endorsing it right now? they want it to stay in place. the reality, mika, is that the deal will be almost impossible to renegotiate, but much easier to kill. back to you. >> ali, thank you. >> richard haass, so, what's the united states' next step with iran? >> hopefully, and i would

predict that the you state doesn't walk away from the deal. i think that would be a strategic error of the first order. we ought to keep our focus on north korea. we would isolate ourselves and not iran. >> for people not watching last hour, i wouldn't say you were deeply skeptical of the iran deal but you had a lot of the same concerns around this set that barack obama wanted it too much, the united states wanted it too much. it was, in fact, a badly negotiated deal. but you believe now that we have that deal, we need to see it through? >> yeah. exactly right. i think we accepted limitations that are way too short but it's the only deal that we have. we have to think about what comes afterwards. it doesn't solve the problem. at most it parks it, to use the phrase i used before. the big question with iran is how hard we push against iran's

reach in the middle east. the principle outside actor in iraq, syria, lebanon. it's ramped up its policy in yemen. yemen now has become the big proxy war in the middle east. saudis, uae and increasingly the united states on one side, iran on the other. is that a place we really want to keep ramping things up? i think the secretary of defense has doubts about the wisdom of it. we have to ask, how many of our calories, how much of our resources do we want focused on the greater middle east, which has dominated the last two presidenciy presidencies. that, to me, is the big question for this administration. >> bob costa, let's talk politics, though. i'll say it. i'm a republican. >> really? >> all my views of iran, for those of you who don't know. >> this just in.

>> are shaped from what i saw in 1979. and i thought the iran deal was a nightmare and i said so. thist looked like this was yet another switch. most republicans, i loved his move toward nato. i loved the move towards normalcy. there are a lot of things over the last week and a half that i said thank god this looks like something reagan would do. but with iran, that's moving way too fast for your republican base. what choice does donald trump have politically but to explain to people, yes, we're moving forward with this but we still have concerns about tehran.

was that more for a domestic audience than an international audience? >> perhaps because he still has a base that saw his noninterventionalist instincts toward iran. and they're wondering if president trump is the same as candidate trump. he has these people around him in the cabinet who have a traditional hawkish world view and are advising him to be cautious, as richard was saying, to not move forward in a way that maybe is too disruptive on iran. a lot of republicans kind of soured on the interventions in the middle east and wanted to see a hard line take on iran. >> is the deal viable? is it being complied with? we don't actually see violations that blow up the deal. therefore, you couldn't let that be the only word out there. >> either that was interrupted

immediately by the press saying he's flip flopping on iran as well. >> he's not flip flopg. it's just a factual statement that says they don't have evidence to the contrary. he had to come out and say this doesn't mean we're iran's friend. i don't know that that necessarily means we'll see new policy in the next six months because they have other things on their plate. >> that is the best explanation. that they couldn't just certify and let that be it. >> rex tillerson coming out yesterday was maybe donald trump saying you need to do this for a domestic audience more so than the international audience? >> the president has to do something in return for rex tillerson. he has to give him a staff. >> that would help. >> rex tillerson is still home alone. secretary mattis is home alone. you can't design and implement a foreign policy this way. we had the mistake, joe, you

would agree, with the turkish referendum. we've had this latest thing about iran. you need to get hundreds of people in place if we're going to be able to design and carry out a consistent foreign policy. this is going on way too long. this is the president's administration. he is the commander in chief. he should give the secretary of state and the secretary of defense and the national security adviser the professional competence staff they need. >> richard haass, thank you so much for coming in this morning. and peter baker as well. >> high pleasure. a 17-year-old activist, 87-year-old supreme court justice and steve bannon. time reveals its 100 most influential people in the world. >> by the way, is bannon on the cover again? >> he probably is. president bannon? >> wow! >> we shall see. >> that's a list you don't want to be on, stevie. >> watch this. >> i have a judge who is truly

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interest in the georgia special election is not subsiding as the parties prepare for an even more intense runoff this summer. after coming up just short in the primary of winning outright,

democrat jon ossoff raised over $500,000 on wednesday for the two-month race, his campaign manager told politico. ossoff faces karen handle and one of her advisers said it's probably going to be the most expensive seat in u.s. history by the time it's over. and handel said she hopes president trump will campaign for her in person. >> you're from louisiana. >> we're from the same area. >> i think karen handel wins this race. once all the republicans combine on one side, it gets to 50 plus. and it's simple math but, boy, the simple math for the tv stations in atlanta is going to be -- >> millions. >> pretty fabulous. they're just going to be raking it in. >> sure are. >> louisiana, again, this is how louisiana runs its electrics.

you've seen enough of these throughout your life. >> we didn't have it forever. this is within the last 20 years. >> 20, 25 years. but anyway, the point is, though, you've seen this enough to know how this story ends. >> unless something happens, which can easily be the case between now and june, it's very hard to see how he can win. now it's interesting she wants trump to come. >> that's what i wondered. >> she was the republican in the race who was least pro trump. all her other opponents were trying to be trump like. >> maybe that's why. >> trump's popularity, how toxic he could be is way overexaggerated and he will relish coming down there and throwing big rallies. this is the showman in him will love this. >> you're absolutely right. >> bask in the adulation. another factor you have to

include is the outside republican-leaning groups. they are mobilizing. >> as are the democratic ones. >> absolutely. but the groups on the right have been hammering ossoff for living out of the district. as bob and i were just talking about, that's a devastating attack and that could end up doing him in. >> that's what you said everybody was talking about at the end. >> i was struck by conversations with voters where they weren't talking about the outside groups or even president trump. it was about whether jon ossoff, 30 years old, lives in the district and whether he should move into the district. local issues. this faces the democrats as they look ahead to 2018 they have a wave that's building. maybe the center has some thoughts on this. they see the wave, anti-trump sentiment out there. but candidate recruitment matters. you have to get people no live in this district, coalesce

around them. they're still trying to find their soul. >> something valerie told me, which we'll be showing in the interview later but trying to find the next leaders in the democratic party. democratic senator chris van hollen, good to have you here this morning. >> thank you. >> how do you respond to losing 1,000 state legislative races over the past six years? will the democratic party become more of a big tent party and promote democratic candidates? culturally in georgia may not line up perfectly with the party. >> yes. we need to be a big tent party. first of all let's recognize he got 48% of the vote in a district that goes overwhelmingly republican. i think he can win.

the key for the democrats, in whether it's a special election or mid term elections is turnout. our challenge is to take all that energy, clearly in our favor, maybing sure that we're signing people up to vote, that we're expanding the electorate. that's what you need to do in the mid term. >> senator, you have outside groups that are saying they want to run primary opponents against people like heidi heitkampf because of her vote on obamacare. that flies in the face of culturally responsive to the state. >> first of all, i think heidi heitkampf is a great senator, great candidate and will do very well. our challenge is to make sure we get the best of the energy and activist. >> gorsuch vote. >> very clear she's opposed to undoing the affordable care act.

to take that energy and make sure we encourage greater turnout but also do what joe and you were suggesting, which is we need candidates who fit their states. good news for democrats in the senate elections is our incumbent members do that right now. so, we're going to -- i think if you've been following them closely -- i know you have -- they've been campaigning all over their states, energizing the democratic base, but also expanding to others and, frankly, the trump agenda of trying to undo the affordable care act is actually creating a lot of problem force republicans in rural areas. >> when i was down in the sixth district of georgia, how are democrats going to reach out to suburban voters, especially moderates who are skittish of president trump? >> economic issues and social issues, it is a much closer fit than trump. trump ran a very decisive --

>> except on cultural issues, not to be a stickler on this. i always tell the story of the union guy who came into my household in '96 when i was running for re-election. he was fixing my phone and as he was leaving, he turned around, hey, congressman, we all love you. we allr all going to vote for you, but shut up on attacking the union bosses. they weren't voting for me because of economic issues but because i was aligned with them culturally, on whether it was the second amendment or whether it was pro-life or these cultural issues. that's how democrats win in the south. >> so a couple of things, joe. >> but i've asked democratic leaders who said no, no, we could never get behind a pro-life leader. bernie sanders, we love bernie, right? he doesn't need to be helping a guy in north georgia. he needs to get away and --

>> bernie's focus, as you know, has been on these bread and butter issues, economic issues that unite the democratic party across cultural lines. he has been a positive force in that sense. look at our senate candidates and inducumbents. the majority in the house of representatives it's because we had blue dog democrats. >> they're gone. >> they are gone. >> look, i think you're going to see a lot more people running in these races. i do think they're going to connect with their districts. i'm primarily focused on the senate races where we have incumbents who are there for their states day in, day out. >> are you worried about these efforts to launch primaries against them? >> i don't think they're going to be successful. at the end of the day, the people who are thinking of launching primaries recognize that the incumbents in those districts are in a much better

position to beat any republican challenger than anybody else. >> speaking of senate races, new statewide poll of potential 2018 senate match-ups, in texas, previews some potential lone star state problems from the gop. texas- how do i pronounce that? >> lyceum. >> -- lyceum poll. given the choice of cruz or how democrat beto o'rourke, they come out deadlocked at 30%. the last time a democrat won a senate race in the state of texas was lloyd benson in 1988. remember him? the poll also shows president trump's job approval numbers under water with 54% disapproving versus 42 who approve. >> what's the old saying about ted cruz from one of his former

roommates or colleagues? >> oh? >> just start disliking him now, because it saves time. >> stop. that's mean. >> unfortunately, that's not true with republican voters, especially in texas. i just wonder, though, if the memory of what he did at the convention and how he refused to endorse trmp and now how he is wrapping his arms around trumpism, if that comes too late and has created an opening not just for more centrist voters but republicans who say i'm kind of tired of this. >> this is really where the democrat makes the difference. they put up a democrat who texasens can look at and say yeah, i like that guy. that's a big factor there. >> political currents and taxes are changing. taxes are still taxes. hillary can win texas. no. she should have gone to wisconsin. i'm not saying that castro can't

win this thing. if i'm the democrats and i'm defending all the races the democrats are defending, texas is not in my top ten. >> here is the thing, joe. no doubt our first goal is to hold the blue line in the united states senate. >> by the way, it is going to be rough, isn't it? >> poor chris. let him finish. >> no, no, i'm helping chris here. it's just a numbers game. you guys have to defend so -- '18 comes at a really bad time. >> there'sed about news. number two, our senate incumbents fit their districts really well and are campaigning all over their districts. we will look for pickup opportunities, one in nevada. 2018 is a year you can say with a straight face that anything

can happen at this point in time. >> totally. >> bet ochobeto o'rourke. ted cruz helps to energize a lot of democrats but also independents and is not necessarily that popular in a general election with some of the more moderate republicans. let's wait and see. again, our focus, hold the blue line, but looking for opportunities everywhere else. >> where is the money going to to be to compete in texas? red state democrats are not going to want to see ten cents go to texas as they try to hold on to their seats. >> right. >> look, you look at the lesson of wendy davis. >> but she wasn't somebody texas could look at and say i like her. that was not the case. >> a lot of textens liked her. >> first of all, we're going to have some good candidates there, number one.

number two, they're going to get a lot of support from all over the country, running against ted cruz in a state where people recognize that hillary clinton did better than expected. so that's going to energize a lot of people from around the country. >> senator -- >> look, the dfcc, senate democrats, trump is helping to motivate a lot of people to support us, bringing new people into the process. and i think we're in a strong shape from the political momentum side. >> and you never know what's going to happen, one year to the next. >> that's true. >> permanent republican majority 2006 and nancy pelosi was speaker of the house. >> i want us to win. we need to be self aware. you sound like you're get tlg. >> if you don't have the votes, you can't get --

>> exactly. have you to connect. >> never knew it was so complicated. >> oh, my gosh! shhh. still ahead on "morning joe." >> we have to let people in that will be positive for our country. >> what about the dreamers? >> we'll try to take care of the dreamers. >> first dreamer had already been deported. kristen welker joins us from the white house with the latest on that story. liberty mutual stood with us

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president trump is going to face off with a u.s. district judge he has clashed with in the past. kristen welker joins us from the white house. what can you tell us? >> reporter: good morning. the first time president trump clashed with this judge was over a trump university lawsuit when he was a candidate. the judge will preside over an

immigration case involving a so-called dreamer that was recently deported. the first dreamer, actually, to be deported. the case putting the judge back in trump's crosshairs again. he is the judge who then candidate trump thrust into the headlines saying -- >> i have a judge who is a hater of donald trump, a hater. he's a hater. his name is gonzalo curiel. >> reporter: the world first met judge curiel last year when he became the target of trump's attacks. >> he was appointed by barack obama, federal judge. frankly, he should recuse himself. >> i believe he happens to be spanish, which is fine. he's hispanic, which is fine. and we haven't asked for recusal. we may be. a judge who is hostile, should

have been thrown out. >> reporter: arguing that he was biased because of his mexican heritage. >> he's a mexican. we're building a wall between here and mexico. the answer is, he is giving us very unfair ruling. >> reporter: ultimately this march judge curiel approved a $25 million settlement between trump university and students who claim they overpaid for seminars. mr. trump never admitted any wrongdoing. as for judge curiel's current case, 23-year-old mantes says he was arrested and deported from a california city for no reason. when he tried to enter the country again, he was deported back to mexico. he was daca status, which shields undocumented immigrants from being deported if they were brought here by his parents. but they say he violated it by leaving the country without getting the government's approval. in an interview overnight, she

wouldn't respond. >> he doesn't understand why he was deported even though he had permission to be in this country. >> reporter: will president trump take aim at judge curiel again? >> reporter: he is asking dhs to release information about his case. how did judge curiel end up overseeing this case in the first place? it was simply random, totally luck of the draw. so far no reaction from the white house. mika, joe, back to you. >> the dreamer that had been deported, did he have any criminal record, any reason to be deported? >> reporter: there's no indication of that. however, he says that he was simply picked up because he was walking near the border. however, dhs counters that report, saying that's not the

case. that he left and didn't alert them. that's effectively why they say he lost his daca status. daca protects those who are undocumented who were brought here as children. it gets very murky when you get into those types of details. did he, in fact, violate that? >> yeah. so it's a violation if you leave the country without notifying dhs? >> reporter: correct. you have to notify dhs and say, look, i'm planning to leave. and get their approval to do that. dhs saying he never got that approval so daca status lapsed. he said he was picked up and forced out, that he never voluntarily left. that's where the real question comes n whose story is most accurate? that's what judge curiel will be looking at in this case. >> also alex said there may have been a prior conviction as well. alex, for what? >> theft. it looks like shoplifting.

>> okay. >> nbc's kristen welker, thank you. up next, what do henry kissinger, rupaul and ted cruz have in common? >> goodness gracious. >> the answer -- >> quite a riddle. >> -- is next on morning cokie. it's time for your business entrepreneur of the week. marleana stell began to create youtube tutorials for her friend and they spread like wildfire. today she does 20 million in sales each year. for more watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30 on msnbc.

joining us now, assistant managing editor at "time" magazine here to reveal this week's five covers for the "time" 100, the 100 most influential people in the world. i'm again not on it, dan -- >> sorry about that. >> but the cover story, riz ahmed. >> so he's one of our five covers. you talk about breakout years. he has really had a breakout year. he's been in almost everything as lin manuel miranda writes about in his tribute. he was in "star wars," he even raps and performed at coachella.

>> you had henry kissinger writing about jared kushner. >> yes. that's one of the great things about this list. we really think about it as the time 200 because we try to find writers who can paint a lot of these people who are very well known in fresh new ways. so getting henry kissinger to write about jared kushner is a great example. >> you should have called me to write about thee ro epstein. >> theo epstein on this list, which is great. he was a huge force behind the cubs winning that world series. it was just a great moment for baseball and for the country and as john cusack notes, it's just a historic moment. >> john didn't note that he had done it twice, one with the red sox -- >> that's why we should have had you write it. >> you know what's interesting, chance, the rapper, the impact that he has had on parts of our culture. >> yes. >> and he's a relative unknown. >> yes. but with chance, the rapper, he won the best new artist award at the grammys but he also has pioneered new ways to release

his music because he does a lot through streaming. so to talk about how he's breaking new ground in hip-hop was really an interesting choice. >> and an interesting life, chicago. >> yes. >> born and raised in chicago. >> yes. >> his father works for rahm emanuel. >> he's just a fascinating character and that's exactly what we're trying to highlight with this list. >> why is sandra day o'connor on the list? >> sandra day o'connor was a really interesting choice. most people know her because she was a supreme court justice. but as sonia sotomayor writes about, she believes her most important work started when she left the court and started a nonprofit devoted to get more young people engaged in civics education. she did that by creating video games to help students get excited about civics education. >> and there's one guy on the list -- >> yes. >> -- who has transformed -- he's transformed at least one aspect of our life. >> yes. >> and might be in the process of transforming another aspect. jeff bezos transformed the way people buy things. >> yes. >> and now he's transforming and

reenvig rating journalism. >> everyone knows him as the ceo of amazon but he's branching out into media with journalism, with "the washington post" and with amazon studios and the original content that thaey're creating. >> dan, we appreciate you being here. thank you very much. joe and mika are in washington. they're clearly going to be on the list, right? >> joe has been on it. but yes. >> joe was on it. >> you could be on it again. you've got to be on it again. come on, man. >> i think mika -- you're on my cover this year, right? >> i'm going to defer to cokie. still ahead, my exclusive one-on-one with valerie jarrett, her first interview since leaving the white house. plus, he literally wrote the book on fox news, new york magazine's gabe sherman takes us behind the negotiations that led to bill o'reilly's dismissal. "morning joe" is back in a moment.

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kevin, meet yourkeviner. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. the obama administration failed to respond adequately to tehran's actions. instead of being thankful to the united states, iran is being emboldened. as of today, we are officially putting iran on notice. thank you. >> iran is the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism and is responsible for intensifying

multiple conflicts and undermining u.s. interests in countries such a syria, yemen, iraq and lebanon and continuing to support attacks against israel. iran continues to support the brutal assad regime in syria, prolonging a conflict that has killed approximately half a million syrians and displaced millions more. iran has conducted cyber attacks against the united states and our gulf partners. iran continues to have one of the world's worst human rights records. the evidence is clear, iran's provocative actions threaten the united states, the region and the world. >> two months after then national security advisor michael flynn dramatically put iran on notice, secretary of state rex tillerson yesterday with more targeted rhetoric against that country. we'll have what it means for the nuclear deal and the implications for the tense standoff with north korea. plus, one of the biggest names in cable news is out. we're going to break down the

media and economic implications of fox news parting ways with bill o'reilly. good morning, it's thursday, april 20th. with us here in washington we have washington anchor for bbc world news america, katty kay. "new york times" reporter jeremy peters, political commentator cokie roberts and chief white house correspondent for "the new york times" peter baker. and in new york, veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, president of the council on foreign relations and author of the book "a world in disarr disarray, richard haas. secretary of state rex tillerson announced that the trump administration is pursuing a comprehensive review of the obama-era policy in iran. he admitted that the country is in compliance with the 2015 nuclear deal struck with the obama administration, but also said the deal was a failure and that iran is still a threat to

the u.s. and the rest of the world. >> an unchecked iran has the potential to travel the same path as north korea and take the world along with it. the united states is keen to avoid a second piece of evidence that strategic patience is a failed approach. iran continues to support the brutal assad regime in syria, prolonging a conflict that has killed approximately half a million syrians and displaced millions more. iran supports the assad regime even as it commits atrocities against its own people, including with chemical weapons. this deal represents the same failed approach of the past that brought us to the current imminent threat we face from north korea. the trump administration has no intention of passing the buck to a future administration on iran. the evidence is clear iran's provocative actions threaten the

united states, the region and the world. >> and of course tillerson went on to say what most foreign policy experts have said for some time, that iran is a state sponsor of terror and been the epicenter of the terrorism since 1979. you actually watched tillerson yesterday and were impressed by what you saw. >> optically, this first time out of the box i've really seen him speak. he, you know, came off well, to sound shallow. >> well, that's what it's all about. >> we're all shallow. the bigger argument -- well, optics are argument but the bigger argument is what it took to get that deal in place and i'm not sure this administration has a sense of that yet, but he sounded good. >> the thing with rex tillerson is that tillerson, richard haass, has told people around him he's going to actually learn the job, he's not going to get out front too quickly because he

doesn't want to have to correct -- you know, correct himself on the record. so i think it has been a slower ramp-up than a lot of people are comfortable with, but he is moving forward there. but let's talk about the iran deal more specifically. the president has said that he was against the iran deal, it was one of the worst deals ever struck. i may be alone on this set agreeing with that. but at the same time it is a hard deal to unwind, is it not, especially since barack obama front-loaded all the benefits for iran? >> the iran deal is arguably a flawed deal but it's not a failed deal and that's where the secretary of state got ahead of himself yesterday, certifying iranian compliance with this deal. it's not the deal i would have negotiated. i think the united states wanted the deal too much, agreed to certain things it should not have. that said, it's the only deal we have. if we want to get out of it,

we're going to isolate ourselves, not iran. and again, i think the reality is that iran is doing many things that the deal has nothing to do with. for example, its imperial push for influence around the region. that is a strategic challenge for the united states and its partners in the region. but in the narrow nuclear sense, the deal is parking this problem. it's not solving it, it's parking it for a number of years. the challenge for the next administration is going to be what do you do when some of the ceilings, some of the limits on iran expire. >> right. >> how do we then make sure iran doesn't break out and build all sorts of capacity. but ironically let me say one other thing. the secretary and others need to be a little careful about trashing this kind of a limited -- time-limited deal because quite honestly it's the only approach that may work with north korea. we may have to do something similar there. >> but, cokie, i heard strategic patience, the age of strategic patience is over, which of course for those of us who grew

up in the cold war, strategic patience -- >> it was the cold war. >> worked pretty well. >> it was containment. okay, we're just going to wait them out. but again, what's so different here is the clock is ticking on north korea. the clock is ticking for the people of seattle and portland and not to be melodramatic -- >> north korea is scary. >> it's a scary situation. so it seems like they're now applying strategic impatience to iran as well. >> which is peculiar. why go after iran right now when we've got all these other problems. i was curious listening to secretary tillerson talking about support for the assad regime because i'm not clear whether the trump administration supports the assad regime. it's been very unclear about whether they think assad has to go or not. so if that's a reason to go after iran, where are we in all of that mix? so i think that it's just an odd thing for him to be doing right

now when we've got north korea staring us in the face. >> what prompted it. >> it seems to be another instance in which the administration is causing foreign policy confusion to allies around the world. we have -- it came in clearly with donald trump saying this was the worst deal america had ever struck and that he was going to rip it up, even during the campaign some of his foreign policy aides rode back from the idea of it being ripped up. during the first two months of the administration, the understanding was that the inner de -- iran deal was not going to be ripped up in totality. now we have secretary tillerson out there talking very tough about iran, but it's another instance in which you get different members of the administration projecting different terms. you've got vice president pence telling the u.s. troops in japan you have to be ready, as if they have to be on alert for some kind of action against north korea at the same time as you have other members of the administration, mcmaster, saying we are going to stop short of military action and there is an element of confusion that

reflects a lack of clear strategy from the administration. >> i think the message that donald trump has said he was going to deliver and the message that donald trump is delivering is that i'm not going to tell people what my next move is. i'm going to keep them guessing. that's on one side. and the other side is, and we've said it all along, his obsession with his branding, strength -- >> well -- >> you attach all of these things. you know, here's the interesting thing, peter baker, our allies actually for the most part, let's say we'll put angela merkel over in another corner where her hand is not shaken. but most of our allies like this american approach. >> well, they like american leadership in the world. they like a robust american presence in the middle east and europe and asia, which they felt rightly or wrongly barack obama

was not exhibiting, that barack obama had retreated too far. >> they do not like america leading from behind. >> they don't like america leading from behind. but they do like predictability and reliability. the allies don't know where they're going and what they're going to do. if you're living in the baltics, you want to know the united states will stand with you if russia starts to do something. and that strategic ambiguity that president trump has been fostering leaves people like that feeling uncertain. >> on nato, though, that -- nato has certainly been cleared up. >> he's turning the corner. >> as far as syria, cokie, you talk about syria, our policy is we are going to strike out against atrocities committed by assad. >> there are atrocities every day. >> but, cokie, you know that chemical weapons crosses a red line the international community has said for years is a red line

we will not allow. there are wars across the globe. but, again, there are international norms. >> there are 2 million syrian children who are refugees right now. so what are we doing about them? nothing. >> exactly. >> there are all kinds of atrocities going on. >> right. >> what we seem to be seeing is just these one-offs of saying we're tough. and i don't think that that gets you anywhere. >> i'm not so sure that they're one-offs, though. and i guess that's the question and that's what we see over time if the dots are connected. >> if they're more than just one-offs, that would seem to be a violation of the central tenet of whatever trumpism is in foreign policy because he campaigned not to get us into more stupid wars. >> right. >> and so when you look at what he's doing with iran and how he may be moderating somewhat on that, not quite sure, not going to on day one as he promised in

the campaign, which is a republican prerequisite running for president, promising you would rip up this terrible deal. now that he realizes he can't do that, he as peter has written about is learning on the job quickly and facing the steep learning curve that is the presidency. so reconciling those campaign promises which are a central part of his brand, living up to those is pretty difficult when you are suddenly the president of the united states. >> still ahead on "morning joe" bill o'reilly and roger ailes took fox news from fledgling cable network to media behemoth. now they're both gone. gabe sherman joins us with the impact on media culture and politics. first, china tries to send a message to north korea in the newspaper to slow the paper course but is it just a paper tiger? as we go to break, here's bill karins with a check on what could be a dangerous day of weather. bill? >> it definitely looks like that. yesterday we did see strong storms, kansas, iowa, through

portions of illinois and overnight through michigan. we had a lot of wind gusts, some small hail that was reported and three tornados in iowa. the worst was near the coon rapids area with winds gusting 40, 50 to 60 miles per hour. you can see some of the pictures after dark last night. a lot of hail on the ground. marble-sized hail. we didn't see too much big hail and luckily not too much damage. big cities already seeing bad weather this morning. new york city has had some rain, the airports are doing okay. washington, d.c., it's about to rain on you, it's now approaching the belt way and will be over the top for an hour and a half and then done for the day. we had heavy rain overnight in areas of michigan that has cleared and now it's over the top of detroit. detroit, give yourself another hour or two and that will kick out. we're watching a new cluster of storms in missouri that will shift over towards st. louis as we go through 10:00 to about noon. here's the area at risk today. this is our severe threat map. again, 25 million people at risk today of severe storms and that's primarily up here in

areas of indiana, southern michigan, much of ohio. this enhanced area from indianapolis to detroit is where we could see an isolated tornado and also a lot of damaging wind with the strongest storms. there's nice weather throughout the southeast and on the west coast we'll have a beautiful day in los angeles, san diego and phoenix. washington, d.c., get the umbrella out, it looks like we're about to see some showers rolling through in about an hour from now. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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north korea's weapons program has been under pressure from a frequent ally, the editorials of the chinese newspaper, "the global times" which sometimes reflects the thinking of china's leadership. in an editorial april 12th the goebl times wrote chinese society would approve of severe restrictive measures that have never been seen before, such as restricting oil imports to the north, if pyongyang engages in

further provocative activity. a "global times" editorial said china can no longer stand the continuous escalation of the north korean nuclear issue at its doorstep instead of accepting a situation that continues to worsen, putting an end to this is more in line with the wish of the chinese public. it also warned north korea to be mindful of the american military action, quote, not only as washington bridge with confidence and arrogance following the missile attacks on syria, but trump is also willing to be regarded as a man who honors his promises, the "global times" wrote. though it reserves some bellicose rhetoric for the united states and south korea, as for china, the denuclearization of north korea is a priority that sits above all of its other interests. >> mike barnicle, that's fascinating, to say the least. that the chinese are, it appears

at least through this paper and other ways, starting to put pressure on the north koreans that they just never have in the past. >> joe, it's also an interesting byproduct of the meeting in palm beach that the president of the united states had with the premier of china. richard haass, i'm wondering given that there's some fairly not optimistic tones in that editorial but at least a new version of the chinese propaganda towards north korea, but yesterday at the same time as we get this published, we have the vice president of the united states on the deck of an aircraft carrier in tokyo bay sort of rattling sabres. what story is best for us? >> well, the two are somewhat consistent. i think the chinese came away from mar-a-lago, mike, with the understanding that 20-odd years of allowing this problem with north korea to drift was coming to an end. this administration had decided that north korea was fast getting to the point of reaching something that would be intolerable for the united states. chinese don't much like the north koreans, they resent them,

they see them as ungrateful for all the help they got. so the chinese are sending signals and there's been a big debate in the foreign minister among the military about the wisdom of china being so close to north korea. now it's surfacing which suggests to me that the voices that are saying we've got to rein in north korea are getting stronger. they don't want to see a war on the peninsula. they also don't want to see north korea get away with a large nuclear weapons program. they're worried one day south korea or japan might get one which would be a strategic nightmare for china. so i actually think the trump administration with all of its rhetoric has probably persuaded china to do more than it's ever been willing to do. i don't know if it will be enough but more than it's ever been will to do with north korea. so this is lining up okay. very different from the iran thing which i think is misguided and cokie is exactly right, we have too many things on our plate. i think the north korea policy is beginning to line up. >> so, richard, you've heard i'm sure what i've heard which is that actually the meeting, as you said, in mar-a-lago between

donald trump and president xi actually went very well. it may be because of the bellicose rhetoric through the entire campaign. maybe trump -- we always said he goes in hot as real estate developer and then draws back and gets a good deal out of it. >> look, i think the chinese understand that this situation just can't be allowed to drip. the trump administration also showed some discipline here, more than in other issues, by not invoking a trade war with china. they took the taiwan issue off the table. they haven't been talking a lot about human rights in china or the south china sea. they have essentially persuaded the chinese that the beginning and end of the test of the u.s./china relationship the next year or two is going to be north korea. i think it's quite possible we're going to see unprecedented chinese pressure on north korea. what i just don't know, joe, is what are the limits of chinese pressure, how north korea will

react, whether it will be enough. but the chinese now have genuinely got the message that this administration is potentially prepared to use military force. that's something the chinese don't want to see. coming up on "morning joe" uncharted waters. we'll talk about continuous questions surrounding the curious course of the "uss carl vinson." also ahead, my exclusive interview with valerie jarrett, her first since leaving the white house. you're watching "morning joe." ♪ can i get some help. watch his head. ♪ i'm so happy. ♪

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the trump administration denies that it spoke too quickly when it claimed more than a week ago that the "uss carl vinson" was headed toward the korean peninsula when it was actually going in the opposite direction. last week defense secretary mattis said it was prudent to have the ship in the region, quote, at this time. here's how he clarified things yesterday. >> we're doing. we said that we were going to change the vinson's upcoming schedule. the vinson, as i said on the record, was operating up and down the western pacific and we are doing exactly what we said and that is we are shifting her instead of continuing one

direction, as she pulled out of singapore, she's going to continue part of her cruise down in that region, but she was on her way up to korea. we don't generally give out ship schedules in advance, but i didn't want to play a game either and say we were not changing a schedule when in fact we had. >> "the new york times" reports that south koreans feel cheated after u.s. carrier miscue. "the wall street journal" went with the headline duped by trump, excerpting a chinese news site that said media around the entire world have been duped by trump again. one candidate for south korean president, a member of the ruling party there, told the journal that if the warship claim was a lie then, quote, during trump's term south korea will not trust whatever trump says. >> i'm going to say we really don't care what the south koreans think of us at this exact moment as much as we care about what the north koreans think about us at this moment. so katty, what happened?

>> my understanding is that the president got this information from the pentagon that there was the vinson in the area, they could send it up to the korean peninsula, but the timetable seems to be what was confused. you heard -- mattis' clarification only made me a lot less unclear about what was happening. but if you read through it carefully, it does sound like what he's trying to say is, listen, we will send it to the korean, peninsula, we just weren't going to send it there immediately. >> we were going to finish our exercises first and then send it up. >> then we were going to send it up there. but for donald trump, who is a man who likes to be seen to project strength and project strength now, he said we're sending that armada, it's going to be great. again, i think it was a little bit of the risk of trump overhyping something that didn't live up to its promises and allies like south korea leaving -- being left feeling was this deliberate deception or was it a snafu and a miscommunication between the pentagon and the white house. >> while, jeremy peters, you

have enemies like north korea scratching their head trying to figure out exactly what's going on. >> a competency issue. >> part of it feels like an episode of "veep" and part of it feels like just a genuine miscommunication, misunderstanding. but this is what i don't understand. so it's going there, right? like it's going. >> so what's the big deal? >> cokie, that's what i was thinking yesterday. everybody was trying to figure out where it was charted. by the way, if the north koreans are a little confused, there's this great dizzy dean quote. they asked why he was such a great pitcher and he said sometimes it's not a bad thing for the batter to think you're a little crazy. as david ignatius said very early on, sometimes it's not a bad thing to put the chinese back on their heel. i think this is a big nothingburger. >> i do too. >> there's nothing to it. >> you don't want to be seen looking slightly incompetent. >> you know what, though, i've

got to say when you're going up against the north koreans, i'm sorry, i may be the only one here that says this. when you're going up against the north koreans, it's just like about putin. putin is back on his heels right now. for the first time in probably ten years, we struck him in syria when he thought that he had played donald trumping. >> coming up on "morning joe" casey hundred dollar, bianna and gabe sherman join us. also ahead, my interview with valerie jarrett. we talk about birther claims to about president obama and his rise to the white house. we're back after this.

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welcome back to "morning joe." we're going to get back to joe and mika in d.c. in just a moment and mika will bring us her exclusive sitdown with former obama advisor valerie jarrett. first, we're going to be talking

a little bit more about fox news ousting of bill o'reilly. "the wall street journal" owned by fox's parent company reported that o'reilly was on the way out as advertisers fled his show. yesterday it was made official. after a thorough and careful review of the allegations, the company and bill o'reilly have agreed that bill o'reilly will not be returningthe fox news channel. this comes after revelations from the "times" that he and fox parent settled multiple sexual harassment complaints to the tune of $13 million. o'reilly spent wednesday at the vatican, even check this out, meeting the pope. and in a statement, he remained defiant. quote, it is tremendously disheartening that we part ways due to completely unfounded claims. but that is the unfortunate reality many of us in the public eye must live with today. i will always look back on my time at fox with great pride in the unprecedented success we achieved and with my deepest gratitude to all my dedicated viewers. i wish only the best for fox

news channel, that from bill o'reilly. let's bring into the conversation kasie hunt, cnbc's brian sullivan, news and finance anchor at yahoo! bianna and the man most responsible for arte alerting the world to bill o'reilly, msnbc contributor, gabe sherman. gabe, did the pace of this surprise you? >> yes and no. i mean this in some ways is long overdue because when roger ailes was ousted last summer, many people knew that this culture at fox that ailes had built up over 20 years was toxic. as i said, it was sexual harassment on an industrial scale. so many people were wondering when would the next shoe drop, was there going to be wholesale housecleaning. now that bill o'reilly has been ousted, really this is a cash cow for fox news. now we know no one is safe, that the murdochs are willing to act when they feel that the network is threatened.

so many people think that the story is going to move to a place where bill shine, the current co-president and the general counsel and lieutenants ailes put in place could be next. >> your book, a best seller, "the loudest voice in the room" is now in paperback, now on sale. from all the work you've done on this, on fox news channel, how it's changed the culture of our country, the politics of our country, what changes now at fox? >> well, in the short run i don't think a lot because they have made a strategic decision to align with the trump white house. so it is sort of the state tv, the megaphone of the trump white house. long term a lot changes. what ailes built was not a news network but a cult personality. the entire organization functioned to serve and serve at his pleasure and express his world view. that's why sexual harassment went on for so long because from the hr department to legal to

public relations, everyone was there to protect ailes. there was no independent check on his power. so now that he is gone, now that o'reilly is gone, it will start to resemble a more traditional media company where it has its flaws and its problems but women will be able -- >> is it going to change? the murdoch boys are widely seen as now in control of the company. >> yes. >> do you believe that the company -- and they're liberal. they're more liberal guys. is the company going to move? >> yes. and we are seeing in many ways the o'reilly saga was a family struggle between the younger generation of murdochs, especially james murdoch, who wanted o'reilly out. lachlan was more likely to see how it played out and rupert resisted. but the children have prevailed over the father. >> was this a moral decision or a business decision? just a few months ago they actually extended his contract as well. he had been saying he's going to come back from this vacation.

we've seen advertisers leave, but they stayed within the network. i know that there is a deal that they had been working on in the uk. so was this the younger brother saying we've had enough, in our workforce we have to have more moral cohesiveness or was this because a business deal was at stake? >> i think unfortunately it was mainly driven by business. like you said, they re-signed bill o'reilly and as someone very plugged into the company, they re-signed o'reilly with open eyes. this was pure business, he was the ratings machine and they knew he had this history and they re-signed him just in march. i know that the younger murdochs want to clean house, they want to change the culture. the question is how fast can they push given that their father built the murdoch empire on the basis of not being like other media companies, of not trying to conform to standards and norms. so it's going to be interesting. >> and he succeeded. >> yeah, and he's succeeded. he said to his kids, look, i did

it being a pirate. you don't have to be a bureaucratic fortune 500 company. >> let me ask the both of you as young women in this business, young women in any business enduring what so many women endured at fox, basically confronted with like a bill cosby on cable. what are your experiences and what's your tame on how it unravel unraveled. >> i've never experienced anything to the degree that some women that have come out with some of these allegations and some haven't been explored yet in the court system. however, i do think there is something different about the daily experience of being a journalist as a woman, especially, you know, i cover washington full time. and so through the halls of congress have i experienced situations where, you know, frankly if a fly on the wall had been watching or you had been watching or my father had been watching, they would have been appalled. and i think bianna, i would be interested in your experience as well. my question to you, gabe, is were there any women who were influencing -- you've ticked

through a long list of men who have essentially come around to this decision about what to do about another man. were there any women influencing this process behind the scenes? >> i think just stepping back without question if gretchen carlson had not filed her lawsuit last summer, which triggered ailes' downfall, he may not be in this situation. so this in many ways was kicked off by a woman. there was women inside fox news, and i was getting calls all week from women who felt that the culture wasn't changing and the murdochs were hearing from that. but there wasn't one heroic woman who went to the mat to bring down o'reilly. i think this was multiple factors. i want to get back to one thing about women's experience in news and especially at fox. last summer during the rnc in cleveland when ailes was in the middle of his downfall, i had fox news employees coming up to me sobbing about their experience at fox and what they endured and their fear of speaking out. this was a culture of silence. as a reporter, it was chilling

and hard to deal with, to see what women experienced having to work at fox news, wanting a career but then having to be subjected to this horrible culture. i think hopefully what this story has done is allowed more women to feel like they can speak up and come forward. fox has a hotline now and that is in many ways what triggered o'reilly's downfall. wendy walsh called the hotline. so women at fox can call this hotline and the company is now legally required to investigate it. >> it's an incredible story and the pace of the story has been equally incredible. i'm going to make a turn and go to another story that verges on perhaps being incredible and that's the continued tension between the united states and russia the s. military has revealed that for the second time in as many da, two russian bombers flew close to the coast of alaska, long-range bombers were 36 miles off the coast of alaska, well within the area known as the alaskan air defense

identification zone. they did stay in international airspace and unlike monday's encounter, no u.s. aircraft were launched to meet them. also yesterday reports that exxonmobil applied to the treasury department for a waiver from u.s. sanctions on russia that would allow the company to resume an oil venture begun by former ceo and now secretary of state rex tillerson in 2012. senator john mccain responded on twitter by asking are they crazy? so i asked brian sullivan, are they crazy? are you crazy? we know that. >> that may be true. but crazy is beautiful, mike, as you well know. is exxon crazy? i don't know. listen, this could be a multi -- i don't even want to say multi billion dollar deal. russia had called this a $500 billion bill potentially with exxon. what we're talking about is drilling in the arctic. so what exxon wants to do is form a joint venture with russian companies, primarily the russian oil and gas company, to drill in the arctic.

tens of billions at the minimum $500 billion is the russian top line number is what it could be worth. it's extremely expensive to drill for oil and gas in the arctic. it's cold, the ground's hard, it's difficult work. they need exxon's capital. exxon would like to have access to that land. so from a business perspective it seems to make sense to ask for the reduction in sanctions. politically as soon as the news broke yesterday on cnbc we were like, hey, i can see this being a bit of a political firestorm. i have a feeling i'll be on "morning joe" tomorrow and here i am. >> and exxon's argument is the sanctions weren't as tight and european oil companies were allowed to continue these drilling deals, u.s. companies were not. exxon was saying that's not fair, we should be able to participate as well. >> who did you just sit down with? >> vladimir -- one of the few dissidents and people who have been outspoken about putin to survive twice, he had been

poisoned twice now. once two years ago, a second time back in february in moscow. he had been very close with boris nimsoff, his best friend, and they had launched a campaign against vladimir putin, were in favor of tighter sanctions against russia, particularly the magnitski act which went after russian oligarchs and not the country as a whole. i sat down with him and this is the first time his wife sat down with him as well. this is a woman who is as just as much of a hero as he is. she's been by his side since he was 9 years old. they have three children and live in the u.s. right now. of course they are desperate to go back to russia but they fear for their lives and the lives of their children. so between dropping the kids off at school and soccer camp and all of that, she's being his number one advocate. i asked her what it's like to fight for freedom in a country where it seems like our president here in the u.s. doesn't seem to value that freedom the way they're fighting for it. take a listen. >> is it a hindrance to your

cause when you have a u.s. president sort of morally equate the u.s. government with that of vladimir putin? >> strong leader does not need to suppress the free media. a strong leader does not need to threaten and kill his opponents. so when president trump calls vladimir putin a strong leader, he's terribly misinformed. >> so, kasie, what's going to happen within the united states senate where you have several senators, staunch critics of putin, republicans, john mccain, lindsey graham, others, what's happening, what's the dynamic there? >> look, the one thing and as you were talking about exx exxonmobil and john mccain saying are you crazy, in covering these first 100 days of the trump administration there have been a lot of ups and downs, failures, successes, et cetera. i think the one thing that actually poses a potentially significant kind of threat to the trump presidency is everything that has gone on and the questions around any potential ties to russia.

i think this is one thing that's very unpredictable for the trump administration and i think we've seen republicans start to ask these very intense questions about it. and i think, you know, the exxon situation is one example of this where i think if the trump administration does make a decision that seems to favor russia, he is going to face a lot of criticism blow back and it could be unpredictable. he tweets about wiretapping as it relates to the obama administration and jim comey sits down and says we're investigating you for ties to russia. >> when the news broke, exxon had been seeking a reduction of sanctions for a while so it's not some grand surprise. but when the news broke, my first thought and i was joking on "power lunch," the show, there's going to be people that think tillerson only took this job because of this so he could influence this and then sell his stock tax-free and move off into the sunset. there's going to be people that believe it. maybe it's true. >> you have your own show? on cnbc?

>> when you're napping. check it out. wake up. >> "power lunch," what time is it on? >> 1:00 to 3:00. i've been on the show eight years. the first time i've promoted, mike. >> he's a big star of you. he's got a bright future. the one thing i think we should be watching going ahead is what's happening at these town halls. they're saying what role is russia playing in our government right now and i think that's going to be something we should be watching. >> kasie hunt, brian sullivan, brianna and gabe sherman, thank you all. up next, mika's exclusive interview with senior advisor to president obama valerie jarrett and the moment team obama realized donald trump had won. keep it right here on "morning joe." so tell us your big idea for getting the whole country booking on choice hotels.com. four words, badda book. badda boom... let it sink in. shouldn't we say we have the lowest price? nope, badda book. badda boom.

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valerie jarrett was rarely more than a few steps away from president obama for all eight years of his administration. and now huddy ffor the first tis revealing details about the time in washington and what the 44th president plans to do now that he's left the oval office. i sat down with the former senior adviser and asked about election night 2016. >> we had eight years the privilege of serving our country at the highest level and part of our democracy is you hand the baton on. so i think i have adjusted ahead of time to what it would be like, and it made it a little

smoother. >> but it was rough? >> yeah. >> there were some rough -- election night, what was that like for you? >> well, it was, i think, gut wrenching is how i described it. but that's our democracy and then you have to just move on and figures out how you want to continue to do what you care most about and for me, it's issues like gender equality and criminal justice reform and helping advocate for civil rights and getting young people interested in picking up that baton, so there's still a lot of important work left to do. >> i still, though, wonder like, is there any flash in time, election night or in the days after, god, i saw some brutal pictures of some really devastated faces, could you ever have imagined and was there a moment when you realized the next president is going to be the man who rose to power on the birther movement, of all things? >> you know -- >> of all people? >> elections have consequences. it's part of why president obama

worked so hard during the campaign and so when people show you who they are you can't be surprised when they actually then continue to fulfill what they said they were going to do. we knew what was at stake here, which is again, why we worked so hard, but you -- you can't just throw up your hands and give up on our democracy. you is to say what more can i do to continue to be that force for good. >> what is the one thing you wished you knew when you walked in the door that you know how after being out the door eight years in? >> as you heard president obama say before he left, one of his biggest disappointments was this toxic nature in washington and how i think the republicans decided very early on from day one, that they were going to put their short-term political interests ahead of what was god for their country. when president obama took office we were losing 750,000, 800,000 jobs a month, the unemployment rate up to 10%. wouldn't you think that's a time where people would say let's come together and try to solve

these big problems. i think i just didn't fully appreciate coming in just how the entrenched special interests would hold on with a stranglehold to that status quo and that change, it was terrifying to them and it meant giving up power and putting it back in the hands of the american people and there was a lot of resistance to that. >> is it possible to have an impact post-white house is there a political future for you? there was once potential senate run? >> i hope we can all continue to be forces for good after leaving the white house. you don't -- your life hopefully doesn't end. for me the passions and issues i care so much about are ones that lend themselves to work whether you're in government or outside of government and i'm going to devote myself to them. what i'm more interested in is to the point that you were getting to about running for office to help some young people run for office, trying to find that next generation. >> you're looking at the next generation? >> i want to help get people to

appreciate the impact they can have if they get in and whether they run for office or serve in the public sector. i started my career working at local government in chicago and i learned so much there that helped shape my attitude when i had the opportunity to serve in the white house. encouraging the next generation is where my heart is. >> what about encouraging your friend michele? >> i don't think that that would be fruitful. i would encourage her to be a force for good, she doesn't need much for that, she was an extraordinary first lady, but i don't think she wants to run for office. i think she appreciates she has this extraordinary platform, as does her husband, they're young, they're very popular, the president left office with very high approval ratings as is it she, and how do you take that and galvanize the american people, citizens, to actually work to solve some of the big

challenges that lie ahead. those are solution that do not have to begin in washington. they can begin around our country. and i think both of them are committed to that. >> when you see the attacks on his legacy, do you get angry? >> of course. >> having been in there and fighting. >> yeah. but i have to say that i -- i really try to do what he was very good at doing in office and that is take the long view and cope your eye -- >> he takes it in stride. >> you have to keep focused on what's important and how to be this force for good and to not get sidetracked too much. that doesn't mean that when you see things that you think aren't consistent with our core values you don't call them out, but it also means you have to say, you know, what can i do. what can i do to actually still impact the lives of those kids in our country who deserve a fair shot and aren't getting one today. >> the women's march what did you think? >> it was amazing just to see all of the people from all walks of life around the country come together and have a peaceful

exciting, fun demonstration, show of force, and i think that's the what our democracy is all about. >> and there's a need to organize again, isn't there? the march was great. but what's next? >> well this is what i think everyone has to ask themselves. yes, it's important to show when you are -- have an opposition to something, but you also have to show what you're for. i think there's a lot of momentum out there and i think that the challenges just keeping that momentum going and not letting folks kind of get lulled into a sense of either complacency or feeling unempowered. i want everyone to feel empowered. everyone can do something. >> t in the days leading up to election night, did you sense there was a problem? was there a sense within the inner circle there was a problem and were you asking yourself what did we miss or could you

tell? >> you know what, i think, look, it's a big complicated democracy, one of the strengths of our country is its diversity and rich diversity. i actually didn't see the election coming out the way it did. i wouldn't have predicted it. but the question is, like where do you go from here and what do we do to just rebuild and focus on creating a big and inclusive tent where we're focusing on making sure that, you know, every child gets the fair shot, every woman gets to compete on a level playing field, that we are true to the core values of our country and we're making sure that we honor those values and that is something everyone can do. >> could you do a favor and ask president obama something for me? could you -- could he come back and save the party and tell them what to do? >> well, i think what he's really interested in doing is finding, you know, the barack obama 2.0s all around our country, who are the next

generation of leaders that he can support and nurture and help grow. how can we help get young people to think why don't i run for office. >> right. >> why don't i get engaged. it's easy to complain from the cheap seats. what we want to do is see people roll up their sleeves and get involved. our government will only be as good as we demand that it be. >> so, seriously, is that something he's going to be working on, is helping you find that next generation? >> oh, absolutely. he's very interested through the obama center in helping promote civic engagement and one of the ways of promoting civic engagement is encouraging people to get involved in their local government whether they run for office or not. you know he began his career as a community organizer and he's looking forward to going back to that and using his incredibly power platform the obama center to excite and nurture and get young people to want to care about their country and to make it better and to show what are the best practices from around the country and around the world

for doing just that. so the big issues that we still face here and around the world can become better under our watch. and our watch doesn't end when you leave office. as he has often said the most important office of all is the office of citizen. >> wow. great to catch up with her. >> great to see her again. >> loot more ahead for for valerie. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, picchmika. much to cover a new front, iran responds after the trump administration suddenly ratchets up their rhetoric. >> iran's provocative action threaten the united states, the regionnd at world. >> as politicians in south korea blast the u.s. over what one calls the lie that the "uss carl vinson" was heading towards north korea, when it was actually headed the other