for monday night. this is the start of the weekend, but there's going to be a lot of things happening this weekend. good evening, ari. shattered. let's play "hardball." give, i'm chris matthews in washington. jack kennedy once said victory has 100 fathers defeat. tonight we discuss the first detailed account that hillary clinton where top mind and top drawer staff lost the 2016 presidential campaign. what went wrong with her second run for the white house? it's all in a new book called "shattered" after many hillary clinton supporters could feel

after living 20 skep all over again. they spoke e spoke with more than 1 much sour00 sources and infighting and leaking that dogged the 28 effort per sesed again eight years later, writing the campaign was an unholy mess but now they conclude the most significant chance that re-emerged from the 28 campaign in 2016 was the candidate, herself t. authors say, quote -- what hillary couldn't quite see is that no matter how she recast the supporting roles in this introduction u production, or emphasized different parts of the script, the main character like newfoundland staring them right in the face the unpredictable and aggressive

iceberg of donald trump. their general election opponent came to them by surprise. >> with me, i had a lot of states that narnt play for anybody else. i add all of the rust belt states. i own states that i will get states that are unbelievable that are unthinkable for the republican party you know i did when i saw that giant iceberg out the window from newfoundland. this must have been like when you are the hillary people, all these geniuses, all of a sudden this gigantic thing hits you on election night. >> it's called trumpism. that's what it is. >> there is this thing, things are happening around her. she doesn't quite understand it. she's talking to an ad advisor flying on an airplane, i don't understand what's happening. i can't quite grasp what was going on around me. i think that was emplem blemati

>> did you see it? this populist, i talk about on the show, i have a record, only two-thirds of what i saw. i said a lot of people don't like illegal immigration, nobody likes these stupid, what i thought he had the trifecta. i did not see him winning in pennsylvania and other states like that, but it was there, that iceberg was there. >> we talk about this in the introduction to to book. what we saw is what everybody else saw is the polling that showed her winning the presidency. ke we trusted that. >> and in the states. >> in terms of election day. >> that said, we had done so much reporting going in that showed some of the flaws and the weaknesses and some of the things that she was unable to do as a candidate, the campaign was unable to do, that we actually didn't have to go back and change very much. in fact, a funny little side

story -- >> did you see who was going to win ahead of time, electoral college? >> no. >> i remember interviewing carvel before the campaign in '92 when they did pull a great campaign together. they put together a great campaign and the candidates bill clinton and al gore. he said the campaign is about a big idea a. big idea. was there a big idea to the hillary clinton campaign in 2016? a big idea? >> no, that's the problem. she had been running for president for so long, at least ten years, she still wasn't able to convince voters in the right places she had a vision for the country, one big idea. >> what about the woman thing? the first woman president? was that something she -- i think she ran on that the first time seemed to hesitate to run on that argument t. majority of people that vote, a president that can be president. >> she actually didn't run on

it. >> i didn't think so. >> and overcorrect and thought to do that. in our first book we talked about she was strap dprapling on that in the end. >> she did it in '08. she did in '16. yeah, she wanted to adrisz that actually at the very of 'ol campaign. she wanted to correct it then. she did for the 2016 campaign. she spoke to women and tried to aim towards women. >> my reference to the wild thing about iceberg showing up all of a sudden. did she know there was a difference between '08, i don't think i knew it or anybody the change in the cosmos. the country was in a mood. bernie did incredibly well. bernie confronted me. you want to call me a fringe, he came with that brooklyn accident. he wowed everybody. especially young people.

nobody saw that coming. the right trump, whatever that thing out there, trumpl, that also surprised. >> but there was in 28 she went against barack obama who ran as an outsider and lit up the grass roots. she was supposed to be the candidate nominated in 2008. she ran as a steady candidate as somebody that got something done. this time in 2016, she changed a lot of the tactics but that big over arching message ashe ended up winning. by the time she gets to donald trump, she is in the status quo against the candidate of change in a change election. a lot of the future democratic candidates, republican candidates, people who watched the political process, if the voters want to know what you are doing for them that is different from now that one big idea. >> by the way, i do this, i love this kind of book t. beach is

coming, be every the beach comes this summer, you can buy this book "shattered." it's catnip. in the book you talk about the strategy in the primary. in other words, instead of going at it and prosthelizing and getting people on the progressive left to vote for it, no, we're going to the regular clinton voters. >> analytics was something that angered bill clinton. he was saying, i'm getting a different feel on the ground. he was reporting back to brooklyn and saying something doesn't feel so right. they were so reliant on data and

analytics they were reporting something back to him. he was always sounding the alarm, raidsing the red flag. >> did you notice during the campaign your anecdotal was different than your statistics? i kept getting it at the end, my brother and people. i keep hearing things, they should be for trump, the pro-life people showing up. this doesn't fit with the numbers we had been getting from the experts. >> that's when we found in the reporting of the book, we for a long time had difficulty with this gap between the sort of stories we were reporting a and the fact that she was up in the polls, which is why we say, we expected ler her to rin on elec night. >> a guy in pennsylvania said if you poll with a real person, hillary won by. if you do a robo-voice, trump won by 3. people were find when they have an articulate person, this person will think i'm racist if i vai i'm for trump.

>> one of her advisers circulated a memo, add a few points to each poll. >> who is this person? >> key can't say. >> why can't you say this person is the one hero, always add 3 points. >> in fact, trump can win. >> why would this person want to stay secret? >> i want a genius here? >> chris, you are a wonderful interviewer, we have to hold back on the source. >> okay. staff on the clinton campaign, itself, dispute the reporting in this book. the one fact they want to fight about, the press secretary issued a statement okay. let's talk about that. how many times did hillary clinton talk to barack obama election night when she lost? >> twice. not only that, there's a call that came in from david seamans,

his political director to john modesto after he spoke on the stage. >> to robbie mook. and then there was an obama call to modesta. about four calls. >> how many times the presidents and the candidates? >> two. >> for sure? >> yes. >> you stand by that? why are they arguing about there one fact thing? >> i can't explain their strategy. >> your voice is getting lower, by the way, you are not belting it out there, john. >> absolutely, two calls in, let me say this, too, this is -- the story that we do here the t tic toc on the peninsula hotel as she is finding out she is losing the presidency is the time in this book and reality where she is the most sympathetic throughout this spire campaign process. >> hearted, inside hillary clinton's doomed campaign. coming up the academy award actor christian bale is with us,

he plays a journalist in the movie "the promise" in the armenian genocide. this is requested hardball." the action news. my insurance rates are probably gonna double. but dad, you've got... ...allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. it's good to be in, good hands.

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>> no one is safe. don't you see what's happened? >> kweef had turkish threats before. >> they want to spare. i have to get us out of here beforers this no name i time left. trust me. >> welcome back to "hardball."

that was a clip from the field "the promise." christian bale who plays an associated press journalist reporting on the armenian genocide. let's watch. >> mr. meyers, i am the commander of the region what is the associated press doing here, mr. meyers? >> reporting on the war. >> there is no war here. merely the evacuation of the population to a safe region. a turkish official, a man of unshakeable humanity and courage informed us that a general notorious for barbarism has been instructed by the highest authorities to spare no village. are these words your provocations or the words of some lying turkish traitor? prove to me that you did not

fabricate these words. give ne name of the high ranking turkish official. i will confirm who gave you this information. >> ah, no. >> well, the movie will be in the theaters on friday this week and draws attention to the mass killing and deportation over a million armenians in the otoman empire. turkey by the way denies the genocide. christian bale starred in movies like "the dark knight rises." and "american hustle" a great movie. my friend john prendergast is the co-founder of the enough project which seeks to end genocide. i want to ask you what attracted you to a movie that so few americans even aware of? >> just that fact actually. i was embarrassed i wasn't aware of it either, 1.5 million

people, i was learning about it like many americans were when they were approached on the 1 muchth anniversary. as i was reading the script, i was watching on the news the azyties similaritied and a script on the mountains slaughtered as well and thinking how tragically relevant this is to them. >> john, my friend, whatt the story here? tell me about the ar men yan holocaust. i know it was a big issue in congress. the lobbyists worked to keep this quiet. why do they want to keep it quiet? >> i think it's the biggest stain on turkey's conscious in history. at the beginning of the world war i, the otoman empire at the time felt the armenian population was siding with the russian and decide as a measure to destroy the fifth column, let's just exterminate the armenian population, through massacres of the men, through mass rape of the women and

through these death marches into the syrian deserts, they accomplished their goal for the most part. >> why is it so quiet? for christians and people like me, you are not taking about the holocaust. >> the word gen side hadn't existed, it was created when this happened and began in 1915 and in turkey. the latter day turkey. so we didn't have a word for it. there wasn't any concept that focused on the idea that the population can be annihilated. exterminated on their identity in this case. >> this story to you, sir. >> likewise, i didn't know anything about it when i first got this script. as i read it and was horrified and educated about it and learned about it, i felt it was an incredibly important thing to do. to now release the movie and to

know 100% of the proceeds of the film go to charity to humanitarian causes to creating the ucla promise institute, which is incredible. i think they got to get to $20 million to be a part of something like that is incredible. >> christian, let me ask you about today in journalism, you know, trump spends his hours and his minute, he tweets at dawn attacking the main stream media, not opinion, news people, trashing the major journalists in this country. what do you think it says about the need for journalism in crisis moments like this holocaust you covered in the movie? >> there the an emergency for it. it become relevant during the filming and after as well in this quote truth era. you know, i think that hopefully it will inspire incredible journalism because people will start to recognize how important

it is to free press to a democracy and the fact with the armenian genocide, there was so little documentation because they restricted access by journalists. it was ill loo el to take photographs. as a soldier, they got most of the documentation out there. but despite the fact that there were many u.s. missionaries whose accounts corroborate each other about the genocide, there were no real consequences afterwards and the tragic thing is that that may well have provoked the new estrogen sides that we have seen since them then with the ukraine and holocaust and rwanda and the zitis. like he was saying this is a fantastically philanthropic move by the film makers. i have never seen 100% of the freeze charity. over to john, he's a news kacas,

he's out there making a change in the world. what can be done by people watching? >> tell me about the holocaust in recent history, where are we sudan? >> i this i in iraq, we have the zitis, south sudan the world's next gen side potentially. in sudan, dharfor and the mountain, the issue is what can be done as christian said, in a lot of cases we won't send in the 82nd airborne, we can take a chapter, there is an incredibly exhaustive efforts to chase the assets of terror noimpblths we can do the same thing with war criminals, they're stealing the wealth of these countries n. armenia, the same thing. they stole the wealth of the armenians, it was financial. massive asset transfer. in all of these gen sides you

see the same thing. they put it into the international system. that's a vulnerability we don't go after. that's the next frontier. >> christian bale, i have become something of a student you have to study to play, that's dick cheney. how do you get ready for that? he's sort of an interesting guy. he's one of my best heroes. >> look at that, spiting image. amazing. >> you can do any accent. i'm sure you do. >> we are trying to decide, do we make a film about dick cheney or lon cheney? >> get the real pad guy. anyway. i wish you well with that character. it will be a lot of fun playing the villain. it always is. thank you, sir. >> thank you so much. >> the movie is called "the promise." oscar, great guy. thank you. >> and he's becoming a dad. >> congratulations, that's another role that's interesting.

that's the real one. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. are you watching "hardball." where the action is.

>> donald trump watch friday april 21st, 2017. all eyes are on france this weekend as the people of the fifth republic vote for president. for obvious reasons, our president has engaged in this contest. he's taken sides with marine le pen, taking a tough line on imgriggs for north africa. president obama has gotten involved in the friend. voting, making comments about the centrist candidate macron. i love the country. i think it's up to them. while we may be interested who wins, it's not in our interest to tell them who votes. whenever we americans take a foreign policy action, we can count on the british being with us. we have no reason to expect the same confidence when it comes to the french. >> that said, it's my experience

when they do, the french do agree with us, it's a sign we're right. i trust them to make the right decision in who to lead them. that's "hardball." thanks for being with us. coming up next, "your business." ...only allstate sends you a bonus check for every six months you're accident free. silence. it's good to be in, good hands.

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