anyway, thank you, everybody. appreciate you being here. >> we are coming to you live on a very busy day in the nation's capitol. this hour trump's tax cut you just heard there right now. steve mnuchin and gary cohen unveiling exactly what donald trump wants to do to affect the biggest tax overhaul in u.s. history. here is what we know so far. it calls for lowering the business tax rate to 15%, doubling the standard deduction and repeeling the estate tax or death tax. here was chief economic adviser gary cohen just moments ago. >> we have a once in a generation opportunity to do something really big. president trump has made tax reform a priority, and we have a republican congress that wants to get it done. the president is going to seize this opportunity by leading the most significant tax reform legislation since 1986, and one of the biggest tax cuts in the

american history. this isn't going to be easy. doing big things never is. we'll be attacked from the left and we'll be attacked from the right, but one thing is certain. i would never, ever bet against this president. he will get this done for the american people. >> again, lowering business tax rate to 15%, doubling the standard deduction and calling for a repeal of the death tax. i am katy tur. it is 2:00 on the east coast. we'll look at the roadblocks that could wreck president trump's plan and whether it's a bigger barrier for the little guys. you may have just heard him ask a question there about how this is going to affect the president. john karl of abc also tried to ask that question. both men, steve mnuchin and gary coh cohen, demuring from that, refusing to say how it would affect the president of the

united states. >> i think the bottom line is they want the attention away from the president of the united states. they want the focus to be on what they are doing to slash taxes across the board for big businesses, adjusting the standard for individuals and couples, in effect saying you won't be taxed on the first $24,000 of income you make right now. i think the takeaway here, katy, is how little we still know about this, recognizing that this was a laying out of broad parameters from the dealmaker in chief, so to speak. this was, in effect, his opening bid today. and as you heard from the two individuals speaking today, they say they wouldn't bet against the president, but there's still so many unanswered questions about how exactly they do go about paying for this. for example, one thing that's striking is we've heard from secretary mnuchin in recent days that they're anticipating this will stimulate the economy, that 3% growth would be enough to help pay for this. but we just went back to check the numbers, and if you go all the way back to world war ii, the average annual growth of this country is just 2.9%, so

certainly a heavily optimistic perspective that this administration has right now, even as it gives very few details about its plans. >> and it's a little less optimistic than donald trump would have said a few months ago. he was initially saying he was expecting a 6% gdp, maybe even more, with the effect of these tax cuts making the economy grow and enabling jobs, jobs, jobs. steve mnuchin bringing that down to what he says is a more reasonable 3%. but again, peter, you're putting it into historical perspective. 3% would be quite a lot. peter alexander at the white house, thank you so much. a good question there from you. i want to go nto my panel. we have ali belshi. this will help a lot of people if he's able to get it done, but republicans will not be so enticed by the idea of the amount of money it's going to create in this deficit. >> if you think about the hole

this is going to put in our budget, that is not what fiscal conservatives want to do, not today, not any day. i also liked gary cohen, i would never, ever bet against the president. i would like to add a narrative. >> that's a message directly from the president. >> on the one hand, it simplifies the tax code, right? there is no american of any party that doesn't think the tax code is ridiculously complicated. on the other hand, what peter said was really interesting. long-term growth in the united states is low. the united states is a mature economy. you can't just inject little things and hope you'll go from roughly 3% to 4, 5, or 6% as you remember donald trump saying during the campaign. not going to happen. i have a better chance of trying to look like stephanie rule than we have of getting to 3, 4 or 5% growth. and chances of looking like you,

nil. >> this is a shared economy that people want to own less, they want to experience more. so you're betting on gdp growth that just doesn't exist. >> i want to get to the politics with you in a moment, but first with you two. he wants to eliminate all deductions except for the mortgage deduction and the charitable giving deduction. that is a big deal. there are a lot of deductions out there. >> that's what the alternative tax largely is. it's a tax that you pay without deductions. so what he's doing is taking the alternative minimum tax away and taking away all these deductions. there was talk about taking away the mortgage interest deduction, which is an interesting one, because it costs the government a lot of money and doesn't result in higher ownership rates in other countries. >> people who work in real estate don't like that idea. >> that's going to be a hard one to take away. >> and the real estate lobby is so strong, and also we're creatures of habit. something like that deduction is what so many people hold dear. >> give me a fact check, if you

will, ali, about whether or not this will be able to create the amount of jobs they say it's going to. >> that's the big unknown, right? it used to be very clear -- people always talk about reagan. reagan took taxes from here to here so you saw a big effect. taking the corporate income tax rate from 35%, it's really not, it's about 27%. that's the effective rate, down to 15%. it's not clear what effect it will have. my only small recent experience is in canada where they did this, and it didn't have that desired effect. it's not clear. i don't know enough to say it won't work or it will work. it's not a given that gary cohen and steve mnuchin says it's that stimulative. we just don't know. >> they have a big balance on their sheets. one of the big issues in america is wages. we're almost at full employment, but the disparity between what ceos and their employees get paid has never been greater and a new tax plan does not address that.

>> let's talk about the politics of this. donald trump promise aid tax plan, as you well know, on the campaign trail. he's come out with quite an ambitious one. is this just meant to show his base that he has big ideas, and he wants to fight for them, and if it doesn't work, it's not his fault? >> i think this is actually unlike health care something that donald trump cares deeply about. he understands tax cuts and loopholes and deductions. there was a sense that he wanted to do this. first he basically just sort of wanted to do health care to get it out of the way to make way for tax reform. you saw that obviously didn't go that well. but no, i think this is more than just showing he's keeping his campaign promises, although it certainly does do that. i think this is something he wants to do, something he believes in. as you saw, they outlined this in bold strokes. but even for the bold strokes, it was pretty detailed for this administration that doesn't want to get into the policy weeds. that shows an interest of the president that he often hasn't showed on some of these issues. >> and it shows in the people he

hired. how does this differentiate from what we saw on the campaign trail? is there anything striking that's less than we were expecting, or more than? >> i think some of it is a little less. you would have to check me on that. i think it doesn't go quite as far as everything he said on the campaign trail, but on the whole, it's pretty close. on the campaign trail, i believe he talked about dropping the corporate tax rate to 15% and that's exactly what he did. >> right from the end, he pivoted from his own tax bracket thing to the republican tax bracket, the 3 tax bracket. so this feels like a lot by inauguration day what he thought he was doing. >> one thing on the campaign trail, at the time jeb bush was running and jeb bush came out with his tax plan and he had sort of brackets he was lowering to. one thing donald trump said, he said, i just want my brackets to be lower than jeb bush's. and they were. so he is sort of keeping that as well. >> talk about what he's going to face on the hill with republicans.

are democrats going to sign on to this? >> democrats will not. what you'll find with democrats, the most compelling case so far they have made against trump has been on tax reform because they basically said, we are not going to help you with tax reform unless you release your taxes, which is something you saw was asked today again at the briefing that secretary mnuchin said wasn't going to happen. but that is a compelling case for the democrats to make. it's not just opposing him, it's saying we're not comfortable making these changes, lowering some of these rates unless we know if it is or is not going to benefit your businesses. i think that's probably a pretty politically savvy argument for them. >> i'm sure gary cohen and steve mnuchin hate this argument. these guys did not come to town to get involved in donald trump's personal reindeer games. and the president in self-dealing and not divulging his businesses has made it clear he's ready to do a development in an industry full of loopholes that one can take advantage of it and pay very little taxes.

he could be rolling net operating losses year after year with a tax bill incurring that had he he has not yet had to pay that he will only have to pay if his company goes public, if he were to sell it, if he were to die his kids then have to pay it. imagine if he then changed the tax code and wiped that out and didn't have to pay it. that could be a massive number. there is this idea that's very important about putting country before self. we have not seen this administration do it yet. it's going to be a sticking point. whether that sticking point can be legally mitigated or not, it's going to be something people aren't happy about. >> i just want to underscore one thing stephanie said a few minutes ago so it doesn't get lost in the whole thing. there is one way to cause -- to increase employment, and that is increasing demand. so it's interesting that they did put the personal tax side of things into this because they'll make some argument they're going to increase demand. you can lower corporate taxes all you want, it doesn't make people buy more things. companies won't employ more people unless people are buying

more things. you see the retail stores closing all over the place. that is not the direction our economy is going in. we have a problem to solve. this does some things. it doesn't fundamentally solve the reason why you need to create jobs. >> what is the most realistic aspect of this tax plan? >> the least realistic plan is repealing the ultimate minimum tax and the death tax. the estate tax is a big problem. z it's a very basic fundamental between progressives and conservatives. conservatives say i make a lot of money. why does the government get to decide my death? we don't want dynasties and things like that. once you're dead you don't need the money as much, so the government can get a chunk it have and your family gets the rest of it. if you have a farm, they can say once i die, the kids have to sell the farm. it's a complicated issue. >> it's an inherent tax, though.

it will definitely help five people in donald trump's life, his kids. >> you don't know which kids he's going to give all that money to. unclear. the simplification of tax code and to put it on a national level, not a state level, matters so. . what do wealthy people know how to do? not pay taxes. whether it's mooving from the state of new york to palm beach, florida, whether it's moving from chicago to delaware, they know how to not pay taxes. >> will they pay less with what's outlined here? >> it's too soon to tell. >> the likelihood he'll get republicans on board, paul ryan couldn't deliver health care for him. there's a lot of pressure on republicans to prove that they can legislate instead of just talking about things they want to legislate or things they want to repeal. what is the appetite for them to make sure that some version of this gets done quickly? >> sure. i think there is a tremendous appetite. on the one hand there is a lot in it for republicans to like, such as they have been desperate for tax reform and they've been

desperate for lowering tax rates. that's actually something all americans can sort of agree on largely. i think the question is, and it's unclear if this will grow the deficit, although it looks like -- the administration says they don't know, they say it won't, it will pay for itself with sustained economic growth. it looks like probably it will grow the deficit, which is something donald trump is not particularly concerned about, but that is something the house freedom caucus which remember, these hard line conservatives that tanked the health care bill, they care deeply, deeply about. i do think it's unclear if they will totally go along with this. >> remember a member this morning who was buying the statement of the mnuchin line that this will result in great growth. again, it's not partisan. it is just math. it's really, really hard to take the biggest economy in the world and suddenly boost its economic growth. >> in terms of approval ratings, though, this matters a lot to president trump. many people voted for him, holding their nose, closing their eyes who did not support many things about how he conducts himself, who he is

socially. but they voted with their pocket books. they voted because they wanted their taxes lowered and they said, this is important to me. if he doesn't deliver on that, there are a lot of people who are sitting in the middle who voted for him who are going to walk out the door. >> i have to leave it here. we have the freedom caucus next and we want to ask about all these things. thank you for all of your expertise and a spirited conversation, as always. appreciate it. for now it's tax reform, but what about a second attempt at repealing and replacing obamacare? here was speaker ryan earlier today. >> could we see a vote on health care this week or next? >> we'll see. we'll vote on it and get the votes. the house freedom caucus which kept the first round from getting through is now on board with the party's new plan. but what's inside? freedom caucus member congressman mo brooks from alabama joins me next. and the senator is ready to board a bus and head to the white house for a rare

classified briefing on north korea. that's all ahead in washington. we can't stay here!

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the house freedom caucus making a major announcement regarding health care this afternoon. they played a role in the first failed health care act say they will support it with the incumbent mcarthur amendment. here's a look at that amendment. it looks to waiver certain

states. it also allows people with previous conditions to be charged with much more. kelly o'donnell is on capitol hill. kelly, how did this come about? >> reporter: the group of this conservative conference is ongoing, and we've seen the white house sort of negotiating directly with members in addition to working with the speaker and his team, the leadership of the house. this is a way for some of these members to say they have progress that gets them closer to the yes that they need. so today, significantly, the house freedom caucus endorsing this amendment plan which includes some changes to the repeal effort. that doesn't mean that every single member of that caucus within the house conference is a yes, but it does mean 80% of them are. that leaves a little math still to do, trying to appeal to some of the more moderate members who have also been a part of the negotiations known as the tuesday group. so this is a part of the

washington sausage making where the conversations have continued, where changes to the bill directed in some ways by individual members who wanted to bring their concerns forward, the white houseworking dire iwoy with them coming up with a product they think they can support. it doesn't do everything the house freedom caucus wants but moves the ball forward. that's part of what the white house has urged them to consider, that even if you couldn't get a full scale repeal that this makes substantive changes to the health care law that could affect the cost. and that's part of what they're saying they are supportive of, big important details here. katy, we don't know when this will be voted on. we are told it will not be brought to a vote until they know they have the votes to pass it. katy? >> nbc's kelly o'donnell on capitol hill. kelly, thank you very much. the freedom caucus so board, but what about moderate republicans? this is what dan donovan, a member of the tuesday group, said just an hour ago. >> a lot of proposals, the amendments, the modifications to

the original plan didn't satisfy my concerns. being the only republican from new york city i had concerns that affected my constituents uniquely, and from what i've seen, none of those vhave been addressed in the current plan we're looking forward to now. >> here with me is congressman mo brooks from alabama and member of the freedom caucus. thank you for joining us. we'll get to taxes but first i want to start with health care. when are we going to see a vote on this plan? >> well, with the house freedom caucus having successfully negotiated for a bill that better protects states' rights and at the same time lowers the cost of health insurance in those states that decide to go for those waivers, that gives a big bloc vote for the states to work with. tuesday group being a liberal wing of the republican conference. if they are staying on board, we could have a vote as soon as the house leadership wants to

schedule it. tomorrow, friday, next week. that's their call. >> are you concerned this is pushing away moderates, the liberal group of the conservative party, as you want to call it? >> well, i'm always concerned as we try to work out these kinds of differences we have from different parts of the united states. that's why i'm tickled pink that the freedom caucus has been able to give states the power, the authority to fit their health insurance policies according to the needs and financial abilities of the citizens of those states. so if a state like new york or pennsylvania or california, if they want to have a real high-quality, high cost health insurance plan, they can do that. while other states that have less income can revert to something back. >> what about those other states who do have a preexisting condition? maybe there is a child with cancer or a family member who was suffering from a heart disease, something that will cost them a lot of money in health care. they already have that, and this new plan in effect charges them

more money than they can afford for health care. what do you say to those who are not in a state that has decided to protect them? what do you say to those families, to that child, to that mother, that father, that grand parent? >> this bill still has a lot of imperfections. i'm hesitant to vote for it, although i'm a lot closer to yes than i have been. i have sympathy for the plight of the family you've just described. but at the same time, if you went with what i won't, and that is a states' rights approach, that family or state could decide what their citizens could afford in the case of preexisting conditions. >> is a choice the family has to basically move out that fof tha state? is that what you're saying? >> no, i'm saying different states have different abilities to pay for different things. and if you require a high cost health insurance program that has a lot of band-aids that force those high costs on american consumers, some states,

the cost is going to be so high that you're going to see families having no insurance because they cannot afford it. so we have to balance that versus all the other needs in the health care industry in the united states of america with respect to all of our citizens. and quite frankly, it's a very difficult thing to come up with the right mix. i'm one of those that does not believe that washington, elected officials and politicians and bureaucrats are smart enough to be able to dictate this to the entire united states. that's why i believe we should be deferring as much of this issue as possible to the individual states, let them decide what best suits their needs because not one size shoe fits all feet, yetanating from . >> ultimately the party is deciding the fate of their -- that's still the same thing, is it not? >> i have much more faith and confidence in the ability of a locally elected official, a state legislator or a governor of a state to be more closely in

tune with what a state's abilities are, what the citizens can afford to buy, than i am with a one size fits all feet approach at the federal government level. that's just my inclination. i am much more in favor of pushing government down to the local level where citizens have a better chance to interact with their city councilman, their mayors, their county commissioners, their state legislators than what they do with their congressman, senators or president of the united states. >> yes or no, are you in favor of this new tax plan laid out by the president? >> some parts i like, some parts i'm hesitant about. >> so no yes vote quite yet? >> i need to see the actual bill so i know the details. there are different versions floating around. who knows which one is the latest version that will actually be introduced into bill form. i don't know that yet. >> republican congressman mo brooks from alabama. thank you very much for your

time, sir. >> thank you. you're taking a live look on capitol hill. that will be full of senators that you'll see in just a moment. there it is. they'll soon depart for that classified briefing at the white house. why the white house is not at the at that particular ticapito? is the administration trying to send a message? i can't wait for her to have that college experience that i had. the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i'm glad she'll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant.

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i'm katy tur live at the nation's capitol with the top five headlines. we begin here in washington where the white house has turned its focus to tax reform. the headline calls for big cuts to corporate taxes. steve mnuchin unveiled the plan during the last hour's press briefing. >> our objective is to make u.s. businesses the most competitive in the world. under the trump plan, we will have a massive tax cut for businesses and massive tax reform in simplification. as the president said during the campaign, we will lower the business rate to 15%. >> rising tension between president trump and canadian prime minister trudeau over

newly imposed tariff on lumber averaging 20%. trump calls t trudeau calls the move unfair and told trump over the phone that it's baseless. ivanka trump sat down for an exclusive interview with hallie jackson. she endured all the hissing and remarks yesterday at a women's summit in berlin. >> angela merkel invited you here. there is talk that she is using your relationship between the two of you to establish a ba back channel to the president. >> i don't think she's using the relationship. i think she sees me as a woman who is aligned with her on many issues, and i think she has a great relationship with my father. to arkansas where state officials are gearing up to carry out its final execution tomorrow. kenneth williams will be the fourth death row inmate to die in arkansas in just over a week. arkansas carried out a double execution on monday. part of the state's plan to kill

eight inmates before its execution drugs expire at the end of the month. in raleigh, north carolina three days of nonstop rain, of flooded out highways left drivers stranded and ravaged homes and businesses. with more storms forecasted, the red cross is setting up shelters for affected residents. right now in the nation's capitol, senators are boarding buses and heading to the eisenhower office building next to the white house for an unusual briefing of north korea by the trump administration. it comes on the same day after south korea objected to an early installation. we're getting a look at a military drill in north korea which celebrated the 85th anniversary of the country's army. nbc's hans nichols is at the pentagon. hans, mattis is leading this briefing. i know we won't hear it. what is he hoping to convey to senators? >> he'll try to convey a sense

of immediacy here, but let's also take a moment and think about the diplomatic aspect of this. wherever you go in the pentagon, they talk about a whole of government approach to north korea. secretary mattis and none of his top deputies, no one thinks there is just a military option to this. tillerson is also going to be there, rex tillerson, the secretary of state, he'll also be briefing and the key role that they want the chinese to play. that's true on the pentagon side, that's true on the state department side as well. taking a step back on this, it was mitch mcconnell, the senator, who requested this meeting, so this was a request. it was honored by the white house, and then the officials will be briefing. we have mattis, we have tillerson, we also have the d.i. chairman, former senator coates, so he'll have some familiarity with his colleagues, and then we'll also have joe dunford.

he might be asking questions on where the vincent is. i checked with folks, the vincent is still in the sea, it is not in the sea of japan, but it is within striking range of the korean peninsula. katy? >> nbc's hans nichols at the pentagon. thank you, hans. with me is secretary of defense for intelligence in the obama administration. marcel, it's so good to see you. thanks for joining me on set. what message is the administration trying to send? are they sending one by having the senators go for a briefing to the white house? >> this is something that happens fairly regularly. >> it's happened at the white house, though? >> it's never happened at the white house, to my recollection, and i used to be a staff member on the hill to help organize these things. it seems a little goofy to me for senators to have to rent a bus when there is a secure, vaulted room in the basement of the capitol that can handle

this. nevertheless, it is a very good thing that the administration is reaching out to the hill and talking in detail behind closed doors about what they're trying to do here. we've had some real challenges in the foreign policy arena because, a, we've had rhetoric that doesn't meet reality. b, we've had real questions within our own system on the hill about what our strategy and our objectives are. and c, about how effective we are at implementing. this provides a real opportunity for senators to ask good questions, tough questions. hopefully the administration is prepared to get those answered. >> are the senators going to be able to influence policy or influence decision making with these military leaders that are holding this briefing? >> i think so. one thing we do know is that secretary mattis, secretary tillerson, the chairmen of the joint chiefs of staff are seasoned veterans, pragmatists that are interested in delivering real results if they can. in my experience these are men who have shown themselves

willing to list skpn loen and l those tough questions from the hill. >> the rhetoric, as you mentioned, is really ramping up. the navy's top commander in the pacific implied north korea would attack the u.s. once it had the capability. take a listen. >> i don't share your confidence that north korea is not going to attack either south korea or japan or the united states or our territories or our states or parts of the united states once they have the capability. >> do you agree with that assessment? >> north korea and the leadership, particularly the leader of north korea, kim jong-un, is really one of our toughest intelligence challenges. we have a hard time knowing for sure what is going on in the mind of that leader. we don't know what kind of paranoia he has. we know that he is someone who has accelerated the development of his missile capabilities and has enough nuclear material to be able to perfect -- once he perfects those missiles to be able to put nuclear weapons on top of them. so we have to be concerned about

the possibility that out of paranoia or idealogy or some other reason, he might take the first step. >> what is our best option? >> our best option ultimately is a political solution through diplomacy. and in order to do that, we need to increase our leverage, put pressure on our allies and the system and particularly put pressure on china to be able to have a unified front in dealing with north korea and be able to reduce the threat they pose. >> in china we are setting up our missile defense system in south korea right now. this is something obama had started but now it's getting implemented. china doesn't like it, russia doesn't like it because of the ability it would have, the radar ability, essentially, it would have to find out what china or russia might be doing. are you worried that doing that is going to damage our relationship with china and our ability to negotiate with china to get them to put pressure on pyongyang? >> i'm not that worried about that. we've made clear to china that the reason we are deploying this

additional missile defense capability, the thad system, is to have a multi-layer defense capability against north korean missiles. this is one part of a layered system we have of missile defenses largely designed to protect our homeland, and protect our allies, south korea and japan. >> marcel lettre, thank you so much for being here. we continue to keep our eye on capitol hill for that classified briefing we were just talking about on north korea. we'll keep an eye out for it. and trump strikes again, getting angry on twitter over a block to his crackdown on sanctuary cities. but his tweet missed its target, as we'll explain a little bit after the break. and we're keeping an eye on the white house where any minute we'll see the president sign another executive order, this one focused on education. it will be his 27th he signed since taking office, more than obama and w. bush signed in their first 100 days. we're back right after this

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as i said, we'll see him in the supreme court. >> the president taking on the ninth circuit court after peeof and on twitter this morning. he'll have to double check his target. it was actually a district judge in san francisco, not the ninth circuit, who blocked the white house's crackdown on sanctuary cities. the ninth circuit is the next court that would hear the case if the administration chooses to appeal. here with me now, matt miller, former aide to general secretary holder. quite a strategy when you have a case you want to win. >> i think the white house couldn't come up with a worse formula to defend its decisions. they start by issuing legally questionable orders which they did in this case, which they did with the travel ban. they then make statements outside of court that undermine the statements they immedianeede in court to win, and then the

judge holds the answer in his hands. if they keep going down that road, they'll lose over and over and over, not just on this executive order but on others. >> are they even going to appeal the ninth circuit? have they filed a motion yet? >> no, they haven't yet, and the last time the president said, i'll see you in the supreme court over the travel ban, a few days later they quietly retreated, pulled the executive order down and came up with a new one. >> is this a fight they want to pick right now? >> it seems they want to pick this for political reasons. they want to go after judges. strategically it's not a smart fight to pick. and substantively, there's something wrong. it's one thing to pick on a judge's orders, it's one thing to fight what judges have done, to pick on judges who make these rulings. that is a politically inappropriate thing for anybody. >> this is something president trump campaigned on, and in san francisco in particular. he campaigned on making sure that undocumented immigrants don't get out and hurt american citizens, and he used kate

steinly as an example, who was a girl shot accidentally while walking -- i think it was down by the water's edge in san francisco. and he uses that example. is this not another way for him to go to his voters and say, this is why we have a problem in this country, because we have these liberal justices acting without any real authority and trying to make us less safe? >> i think that is absolutely the calculation they're making right now. you saw them bring up that case again last night in the statement they issued after the ruling. but one of the other things he told his voters, the people who voted for him, was that he was going to be a guy that could win more than anyone else. he was a guy that could understand and fix washington more than anyone. if they keep going down this road, he's a loser. he keeps losing in federal court, not winning. at some point people will look and say, you made all these promises, but you actually cannot get any of them accomplished. >> the court is not beholden to him. they denied the house's request for documents relate to do

michael flynn. they said they're documents they don't possess, they're documents that would live in other parts of washington, various administrations and agencies. but they also seemed to say that they don't have possession of any documents they may have had in the transition, or that mike flynn filled out forms. fact check this for me. is it out lalandish, as they cad it, to even ask for this information? >> no, their answer was completely transparent. there are other places the documents supposedly exist, the state department, the defense department. the white house can ask them to release those documents. same with the transition. the transition department reported that they have those documents in various places and they could release them if they want to, they just don't want to. >> why don't they want to? >> they continue to think that this investigation is the one thing that threatens the president's very legitimacy, and every time there is a new revelation, it throws them off of their message, it throws them off their game plan and we get new cycle after new cycle about

russia. >> is there a historical precedent for a president not refusing to hand over documents, maybe tapes? >> there is, in fact. all presidents, you know, given these types of fights with congress over handing over documents. it's very rare to see a president refusing to turn over documents when the request comes from his own party. especially when it's about an official that the white house themselves fired. they already got rid of him. >> matt miller, thank you very much. appreciate your time. moments ago they were said to have departed the capitol. they are en route for a house briefing. there's the bus right there. we'll bring you the latest as we get it. also ahead, more on the debut of trump's tax plan. who stands to win and who stands to lose? right after the break. (counting for hide n' seek.) ready or not, here i come. ♪

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the average american. >> there's some good stuff in there for the middle class in terms of doubling the standa standardized deduction. it should be a little simpler. there are three brackets and if you fall into that zone about, 80,000 or so where you have to prepare the alternative minimum tax you won't have to do it because the president wants to eliminate that. on the other hand, if you're fond of state and local tax deductions, you won't be able food on your federal income tax as well as interest tax. we had the plan from the candidate and it called for a modest tax relief for the middle class. i think that's probably still going to be the case. and also, a question of what happens to the wealthy. i will point out there is relief for small business with that 15% fax will help some of the s corporations out there as well. so that's probably always middle class benefit as well but it means the big corporations will

take a nice deduction as well. a 15% for example what the current rates are. steve, thank you for lending us injure expertise and a short drive from capitol hill to the white house is just about complete for senators set to get a classified briefing on north korea. you can see through trees that they're walking into the executive office building. i believe that's senator grassley who walked in a moment ago. it is set to get underway in about 20 minutes. we are keeping an eye on it and we are going to give you all the details, at least the ones we can get, live. i don't know why i didn't get screened a long time ago.

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we're back life on msnbc. you're looking at a live picture, a smattering of senators from all walks of life have arrived. there was senator grassley, elizabeth warren and independent far angus king. we'll bring you a live report from the white house moments there now with. president trump's 100th day coming up, we're taking a pulse of the voters all across the country. chris jansing sat down in new york to discuss the future of the democratic party and its role in the donald trump presidency. >> how do you not turn into the party of no as democrats? >> in the courts, we're not just standing up and throwing ill conceived court payment taz judge. we're winning. we're defending american values.

>> people are showing number town halls and demanding that the members of congress take action flts i think that's how it starts. we've created a wave of people. that are for something. not against. >> i think that's right. having action steps. not just protesting but saying, it could be calling your congressman but it could be something else. >> i want to make one important point. i'm a member of the dnc and i'll make loud and clear my disdain and outrage that we're going around the country supporting anti-choice democrats. >> nancy pelosi said there's enough room in this party. >> not for some things. not in my party. >> we can talk about tax policy. my party is not one that takes away women's rights or lgbt rights or immigrant rights or muslim rights. >> i think the greatest thing about these protests the past 100 days are home made signs,

different issues. i'm not alarmed by that. i think it is reaching voters where they are. >> i completely agree with that. unless people vote, then nothing will change mid terms or beyond. >> one of the things you have to give donald trump credit for. once he decided who candidate trump was, he stayed there and became author authentically that. so we become authentically who we have always been but bringing in others to add more. >> i think there are a lot of trump voters that voted for him despite some of the horrible things he said and did. those are the voters we can connect with. once they've had a year, two years to see what this agenda actually means. >> it is depressing, what has happened in the first 100 days in a lot of issues but i'm also hardened by how much resistance there's been. people just didn't go away quietly. >> if there's one thing they

care about, it is their jobs. when we make them scared about their jobs, that's how we move them. >> vote, vote, vote. not make our country great but save our country. >> chris jansing reporting for us. that will do it for me live in the nation's capital. with a stunning view behind me with the executive office. next -- >> neither the white house nor the washington monument is particularly slimming for me. but it is a beautiful view. nice to see you. thank you so much. >> to be in the same place in a different city. >> good afternoon to you. i'm ali velshi. tensions continue to boil over. the entire senate, all 100 members meeting at the white house. but this afternoon, the powerful freedom caucus announced its support for the latest