trump's tax cut. a gift to the rich. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. today the trump administration laid out what it called the biggest tax cut in u.s. history. it would drop the business tax rate fm 35% down to 15%. totally eliminate the estate tax as well as the alternative minimum tax, you know, that provision anything catching those have exploited every loophole known to man. it's a grand trump-sized gift to the wealthy marked paid in full, donald trump. get ready to hear the bragging now about how big a gift it is.

so guess who he's up against? last night in a surprise videotaped address to the international ted conference in vancouver, pope francis had a message for world leaders. quote, act humbly. quote, allow me to say it loud and clear, the pope said. the more powerful you are, the more your actions will have an impact on people. the more responsible you are to act humbly. humility is in short supply. of course for the man living at 1600 pennsylvania avenue. let's watch. >> there has never been a presidency that's done so much in such a short period of time. >> we had a massive crowd of people. >> here's a picture of the crowd. now, the audience was the biggest ever, but this crowd was massive. look how far back it goes. >> this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the globe. >> that speech was a home run. >> they loved it. they gave me a standing ovation for a long period of time. they never even sat down, most of them, during the speech. >> the business community and

the labor community, you saw that with the labor leaders that came out. one of them said it was the single greatest meeting i've ever had with anybody. it's the highlight of my life. >> people came out and voted like they've never seen before. so that's the way it goes. i guess it was the biggest electoral college win since ronald reagan. >> no administration has accomplished more in the first 90 days. >> anyway, last week in an interview with the associated press, president trump was in full bragging mode. on his diplomatic success, he said, people have given me credit for having great chemistry with all the leaders. if you look at the president of china, people said they've never seen anything like what's going on right now. on his address to congress, a lot of people have said that it was the single best speech ever made in that chamber. i guess better than roosevelt's. even his sunday show ratings, it's the highest for "face the nation" since the world trade center came down. that was grotesque. there are just days to go until the trump administration reaches

its 100-day mark saturday. its agenda has been largely stalled by congress and the courts. of course those are the facts. the president and his aides are scrambling to show they've delivered something, anything that can count as a success. hyde heidi prez bow la, cj o'rourke, and jess mcintosh, a former clinton campaign advise youor. thank you. this is going to be a great group. the pope is speaking on what i think he considers moral or human behavior grounds, not exactly political grounds. and his voice was heard coming from vancouver, heidi. and the same day, the president is out saying, greatest tax cut in history. biggest -- you know. maybe he's right. maybe the monkey typed merry christmas this time because it probably is the best tax give away that the rich could conceive of. >> trump thinks he is humble, and he said so actually. when the pope came in, he tweeted, i'm humble just like the pope. the iron are is people who are humble don't have to go out and

say it. >> i am so humble. i am the humblest ever. >> who was that in my ear? >> the joker has come here, jack nicholson. go ahead. it's highly timely actually. p.j., this bragging about humility is, i guess, an o oxymor oxymoron. your thoughts now, sir. less gastric than they just were. >> i'm irish catholic. you know, what the pope says goes. trump is episcopalian. maybe they've got a different rule book over there. i'll have to check. >> i thought he's presbyterian. >> i think -- >> he got married in a presbyterian church. >> of course he's not going to hear it. he doesn't hear anything that isn't directed directly to him, possibly from a presidential seal podium. so i think he's going to miss the focus. >> here's the president's brand of campaigning. it's full of boasts and bragging. i don't know where this is taking us. i guess it's taken us to here.

let's watch. >> i will be the greatest jobs president that god ever created. >> i don't need anybody's money. it's nice. i don't need anybody's money. i'm using my own money. i'm not using the lobbyists. i'm not using donors. i don't care. i'm really rich. >> would be the best for women, the best for women's health issues. >> so here i am, great schools, great brain, great success, build a great company, do "the apprentice indication, tremendous success. >> pat buchanan wrote the article today. you saw it. i'm not bragging. maybe a little bit. he said it was the single greatest debate performance in the history of presidential politics. >> well, as heidi mentioned there, before he ran for president back in 2013, donald trump tweeted about the subject of the pope and humility by bragging about his own

humbleness. he says, the new pope is a humble man very much like me, which probably explains why i like him so much. in other words, p.j., the issue isn't the pope being pope. it's the pope is lucky enough to be liked by the great donald trump. i envelops the universe and comes down on little people like the pope and says, i like you, and that's the most important things in their lives, that donald trump deigns to like him. at this ti it's simian also. like a monkey banging on a stick, i'm the biggest. i'm the biggest. prim orderial, i should say. your thoughts? >> it does. but also, i mean isn't trump in some ways one of the most familiar characters you've ever seen? i mean hasn't everybody worked for somebody like this guy or had somebody working for them that was like this guy? i mean i come from a long line of car salesmen, and i know this guy, you know. this guy is on every softball team.

this guy is on every bowling team. you know, he's the last guy at the bloofrnt stoar on the last that you have to pass on your way to the men's room. >> p.j. >> none of this should be mystified by this guy. >> i know what p.j. means by this. am i right, or am i wrong? >> i mean it's your drunk uncle. it's my uncle jack. >> and women love that guy. women absolutely love walking past that guy on the way out of the bar. >> are you serious? >> no. i'm being absolutely sarcastic. we need to turn back time and figure out who didn't tell donald trump that he was good enough. then we can have them say, you did just fine or, even better, sometimes you don't have to be the best. it's all right. but clearly somewhere along the line that wasn't done. >> let's just be fair about this. it has worked for him in life up until this point, right, because what trump does -- >> i guess. >> the reason why he's been successful as a salesman is

because he sold his brand. when you look at these towers overseas, he's selling the trump name. it's all about his image and his brain. >> and all it is is the brand. it's not necessarily the bottom line. >> you buy a car and about a week after you buy t you love the new car smell and you love the car. it feels great to get in. you got all the stuff going on. you can look in the back and see the tv show in the back of the car. and at some point you def side, is this a lemon or not? is this a good car or not? does it have scoot? does it pick up? am i fixing the electrical system in three weeks? so when are the american people going to start -- p.j., you're up. when are the american people going to judge trump by his lack of performance to have nothing past congress, nothing on health care, nothing period, and yet he's still bragging. when do they stop listening to the bragging and start listening to the performance? when does that happen? >> i mean part of the secret with trump is -- and i think this cluincludes most trump

supporters. nobody listens to him. i mean that's right. that's a good thing. again, he's like that guy on the golf course. you just don't listen to him. you watch what he does. you know, he's got to get out there and do some stuff obviously with the tax thing. he's starting at the wrong end. >> we've got a lot of his critics watching, i would guess. why 96% of the people still sticking with him when he hasn't done squat? >> because he's bought time with the number one prize, and the reason why many of these conservatives voted for him in the end even though they were holding their nose, supreme court, supreme court. he's gotten one. now folks like grassley are saying maybe he'll get a second one. >> he broke the rule. the rule was you had to have 60 votes. he got 52. >> they don't care how he did it. they care that it happened. they got a lifetime appointment on the supreme court. he is doing some things by executive order, rolling back regulations, you know, hiring freeze at the federal government. okay. but like you say, it's buying

time. presidents in the end are judged on legislative accomplishments and what they can get through congress. >> this 100-day mark is going to be really important. >> you insist on getting in here, p.j. go ahead. >> i'm sorry. i can't see anybody so -- >> you're at a very great disadvantage here. >> what he's also doing is he's hating on the immigrants. you know, he's scapegoating the immigrants, and i hate to say this about my own country, and i certainly hate to say it about my side of the political spectrum. but a lot of them like that. it's a thing that makes me detest donald trump. it really disgusts me. we're a nation of immigrants. even the poor native-americans had to come across a land bridge from siberia and go through like arctic ellis island staffed by saber-toothed tigers, whatever, you know. we're a nation of immigrants. you don't do that. i hate that, but there are a lot of people out there who don't hate it. >> i grew up with an irish accent in the house, a real one, from northern ireland.

my grandmother. i'm some what familiar with it. >> there's a certain point where just the demonization, just the rhetoric doesn't do what his base wants to do anymore. campaigns understood the importance of the supreme court, but he campaigned on building a wall, banning muslims, and repealing obamacare. not only has he not done those three things, he's been smacked down repeatedly on two of them. and we're starting to see the wall as just being an embarrassment. >> jess, you're in a good mood. i liked meeting hillary people. your personality, you could have sold some of that to the candidate. look at you, you're an exuberant person. i mean hillary could have come out with a little more of that stuff. in person, she's great. >> i think there's an acknowledgement by this administration, even if they won't say it publicly, that they've got to get down to business on the populism as well, which is why you're seeing all these executive orders and actions on, you know, smacking canada around and mexico. >> oh, canada.

>> i don't think it's going to do enough to set off -- >> p.j., speaking of cars, i think he would be good selling my old car. >> those darn canucks. the trouble with your panel here, you're just not hockey fans, or you'd feel like i feel about canada. >> great. positively. i do feel very positively. wonderful country above us that causes no trouble. heidi, thank you. p.j. and jess mcintosh. coming up, president trump puts forth a tax plan that cuts taxes big league. and democrats want to see trump's tax returns to see how he would agabenefit personally m these cuts. good luck with that. plus trump today took another step towards rolling back president obama's environmental legacy. trump wants to look at all those federal lands that have been designated as national monuments because he wants to open up that gate, that fence gate to oil and gas drilling and millions of

acres that currently are protected. isn't that beautiful? and trump's back at war with the justice system after a federal judge blocked his order to keep federal money from going to sanctuary cities. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. he won't like it. this is "hardball," where the action is. it's not how fast you mow, it's how well you mow fast. it's not how fast you mow... ...it's how well you mow fast. woooh! it's not how fast you mow... it's how well you mow fast! it's not how fast you mow... it's how well you mow fast. they're not just words to mow by, they're words to live by. the john deere ztrak z345r

with the accel deep deck to mow faster, better. take a test drive and save up to 250 dollars on select john deere residential ztrak mowers. president trump and top members of his administration are slamming a u.s. district judge out in san francisco who ruled yesterday to block trump's executive order withholding money from sanctuary cities from taking effect. nbc news justice correspondent pete williams joins us now. pete, what's the real world effect of this fact that the judge just turned him down on this e.o.? >> it partly blunts what the government was trying to do here, but it doesn't completely stop it. so what the judge said is the president was wrong here in this executive order he signed in late january saying that homeland security should draw up a list of sanctuary cities that don't fully cooperate with the feds on immigration, and then

the justice department should find ways to take away their federal grants. the judge said, you can't do that. only congress can set the rules for federal grants. and once it awards them, you can't change the rules later. you can't take away money that doesn't have anything to do with immigration. so for a variety of reasons, he said what the president did is too broad and took away a lot of the steam from this executive order. but the justice department has said there is a law that requires local police -- that says local governments can't interfere with local police giving immigration information to authorities, and the judge said, you know, the justice department can still tell local cities that they have to follow that law, or they could risk their justice department grants. so it's a partial setback, but it's not a complete shutdown. >> thanks so much, pete williams. we're going to have much more on trump and his administration slamming judges and the justice system itself later on in "hardball" tonight in the roundtable. back after this.

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just think about what we can accomplish in the first 100 days of a trump administration. [ cheers and applause ] we're going to have the biggest tax cut since ronald reagan, even bigger. >> even bigger. welcome back to "hardball." making good on president trump's campaign promise, treasury secretary steve mnuchin and his chief economic adviser, gary cohn unveiled the massive tax cut today. here it goes. >> the president is going to seize this opportunity by leading the most significant tax reform legislation since 1986. >> we will have a massive tax cut for businesses and massive tax reform in simplification. >> specifically the white house is proposing to cut corporate tax rates from 35% down to 15%, reduce the number of tax brackets for individuals from seven down to three brackets, and get rid of the estate tax

altogether. what's miss something how the president plans to balance the books. the current proposal is shated to cost the treasury more than $2 trillion over the next decade. told "the washington post" he would be able to get rid of the nation's more than $19 trillion national debt over a period of eight years. senate majority leader mitch mcconnell intends to pass this proposal through a process known as reconciliation which allows republicans to advance legislation with just 50 senators. they've got 52. plus republican vice president mike pence, entirely without the need of any democrats. in order to do that, the tax bill can not add to deficits beyond a decade. we'll see. senator orrin hatch told the associated press he was willing to set aside his past principles because, quote, i'm not convinced that cutting taxes is necessarily going to blow a hole in the deficit. i actually believe it could stimulate the economy and get the economy moving. the white house proposal is a general guideline.

but yesterday nasdaq rose to 6,000 points yesterday, an all-time high. look at that chart. to get a closer look at trump's proposal, i'm joined by stephanie rule and andrea ross sorkin, who is host of cnbc's squawk box and could creator of the showtime series, billions. you didn't make billions on it, did you? anyway, let's talk first with stephanie. it seems to me that this is box office for him. for regular middle class people, they don't have the -- simpler is always going to sell. number two, it's got a low rate for people who make less than $24,000 a year. no taxes. what else? lowers the corporate rate down to 15%. this is for rich people. gets rid of the estate tax, get rid of the minimum alternative tax. these are two gret penbennies f rich people. if you live in new york or

california, you can't write off your state tas. how does it add up f the regular person? >> down side is in the details. across the board, everybody wants simpler taxes and they want to pay less. the question is how exactly do you spur growth? yes, when you say as far as the developed world goes, the united states pays the highest corporate taxes in theory. but they're not really paying 35%. most are paying more like 23%. >> and what are they paying in france? what are other countries paying? >> in europe, they've only got a 15% corporate tax rate, but look at that zombie economy. so there's no direct line at this point saying if you've got a lower corporate tax rate, it's gangbusters. it's off to the races for your economy. we've had slow and steady growth here. wages is a bigger issue. we don't need to create jobs. we need to improve wages. and the disparity between worker pay and ceo pay has never been greater. so when you look at this big cut for corporations, there is still not a direct line showing how you're going to see a big boom --

>> stephanie, if the woman sitting next to you in a robot that is going tore your job, doesn't want health care, doesn't want a pension, doesn't want a package, it's hard to compete with that person and say, i want higher wages, isn't it? >> hold on a second. it's such a cheap answer to be like, robots, they're taking my job. >> who's squeezing the wages? >> we can see wages go up. ceos, companies can take a closer look and say we're going to start paying our workers more. they've chosen not to. >> what is the power of the worker to get more pay? >> the question is do they have leverage? if those workers are needed, then they have leverage. >> if there's a labor shortage, if they need people because they can't operate the business without them, they gave them more money to keep them. >> if we start to see big infrastructure spend, labors are going to say i'm not working for $20 an hour. i want $25. >> why is the stock market booming, nasdaq up to 6,000. what's going on? is it just more money in the

pockets of corporations or a greater incentive to invest in equipment and actually boom the economy? what's exciting them, the growth or the cash? >> i think there's a distinction. everyone is saying, you know, is it a real economy, or is it a trump economy? and when you look at what's happening in the stock market right this second, i would argue it is about simply the fact these companies have been earning more. but let me just suggest to you that we were on this path long before november. and so i don't think we need to get the politics involved with why the market has done what it's done over the past 48 hours. >> why are they excited by the trump presidency? why has the market gone up under trump ever since the election? >> look, i would say they are excited for two reasons. they're excited in part because the economy, the real economy actually is getting better. but as i said, it was getting better before. they're excited about the fact that regulators are not going to regulate these companies the way they had been before. and by the way, you can do that with executive action. you can do that on your own. you don't need legislation. and they are excited to some

degree or a lot of a degree to the idea of these tax cuts. having said that -- and i like to be dispassionate and do some of the math. this plan today, this is not a plan. we're 100 days in. this is a piece of paper, which i'm surprised it didn't come on a napkin at this point. i mean this is not -- the math here -- >> andrew's right. >> this should offend anybody's sense who's ever been to a math class. you'd have to hire david copperfield to make this work out. >> okay. let's go to a couple things. >> there's no way to make the math work. >> i'm going right into your heart on this because i know where you're going, i think. what good does it do the economy to get rid of the estate tax? any good? >> it doesn't do something good for the economy, just like reducing the number of brackets doesn't. when you look at this thing, it looks like it's written like a book report, tick, tick, tick. but how do the numbers actually add up? andrew hit the perfect point as far as regulation. one thing that companies didn't have was clarity around

regulation. they had a ton of money on a balance sheet -- >> so will that happen? >> there was this regulatory overhang that they thought could be coming from a less pro-business friendly obama administration and now at least they have clarity. but it's these trump promises that have created enthusiasm. hard-core dollars and cents have not been delivered for corporates. >> another fact that is unclear is how it would affect president trump's own tax rate. here we go back to the mother lode here. president trump has refused to release his tax returns because he says they're under permanent audit. secretary mnuchin was actually asked about that by jonathan carl. >> will the president release his tax returns so that -- >> the president has no intention. the president has released plenty of information and i think has given more financial disclosure than anybody else. i think the american population has plenty of information. >> ha! boy, he's got his talking points

down, doesn't he? more information than anything. they have all the information they want. and yet any poll you take -- and it's not just progressives or anti-trumpites if you will, not just the resistance. people want to see how this guy is making out. >> everybody wants to -- you want to understand the incentives behind whatever decision anybody or any proposal that's being made. let me say we already know what's going on here because one of the pieces of this tax proposal is what's called a pass-through, which means instead of having the individual tax rate, which at the highest end, which would probably include donald trump at 35%, is actually going to -- because he owns a company, it's going to be 15%. that's one of the components of this thing. ultimately, chris, stephanie, all of us, we're going to create our own llcs. we're going to become our own businesses. we're going to get contracted out by nbc universal. they're going to pay us and we're all going to have a lower rate. that is sort of the voodoo math of this whole experiment here. >> do you have to say about that? >> in releasing president trump's taxes, no one is making

the argument there's some nefarious ties to russia. plain and simple, it's transparency. this president has not yet shown he will put country before self in divesting his businesses, his ties -- >> 96% of the people who voted for him are still with him. explain. 96%, our latest poll. >> they're believers. a lot of people voted for him not because they think he's a great guy. because they want to pay less taxes, because they want jobs that pay more. he has yet to prove how he's really going to improve their lives. when you look at his plan, it looks like the rich people who didn't vote for him -- >> i think he's going to -- up next, president trump continues his rollback of environmental protections. that seems to be one of the reasons business loves this stuff. we're going to talk to a former epa official who served under democratic and republican presidents but quit the epa in

protest of what trump is up to. this is "hardball," where the action is. but when family members forget,

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i'm milissa rehberger. here's what's happening. president trump attended only the first five minutes of a rare meeting with senators who were gathered to talk about options to pressure north korea to end its nuclear program. skmooinchts at the university of california after losing the support of conservative groups sponsoring her. she vowed to go even after u.c. berkeley pulled her visit.

humanities teacher sydney chaffy is awarded national teacher of the year. she works at a public charter school in boston. back to "hardball." >> drill, baby drill. [ audience chanting ] >> the chant is drill, baby, drill. and that's what we hear all across this country because people are so hungry for those domestic sources of energy to be tapped into. >> welcome back to "hardball." that is of course sarah palin back in 2008 explaining her infamous slogan which was popularized among republicans during that campaign. now president trump may be coming one step closer to fulfilling that promise. trump signed an executive order today calling for a review of the designation of tens of millions of acres of federal land as national monuments. that review could shrink the size of dozens of protected

lands. the move could then open those lands to oil and gas drilling. here's how trump described the order at his signing ceremony today at the department of the interior. >> altogether the previous administration bypassed the states to place over 265 million acres -- that's a lot of land -- million acres, think of it. 265 million acres of land and water under federal control through the abuse of the monuments designation. that's why today i'm signing this order and directing secretary zinke to end these abuses and return control to the zbleempt last december, that's not too long ago, president obama designated more than a million acres of land out in utah as the bears ears national monument, angering republicans. also at risk is utah's grand staircase which former president clinton designated back in 1996

since the administration of theodore roosevelt in 1906, presidents have been allowed to declare federal lands as monuments and restrict how that land can be used. i'm joined by mustafa ali, who resigned from the e.p.a. in protest last month after a 24-year career in government. he's now with the nonprofit group, the hip-hop caucus. let's talk about this. you know, i get a sense that trump, if you announced at midnight tonight that central park in new york was available for development, it would be gone by dawn. >> yes. >> there would be buildings up. they don't believe -- people like trump basically don't believe in protecting lands for the public or for history. so here we have out in utah places like this. what do you think is the philosophy of this new administration about environmental protection like we're looking at these beautiful places like that one right there? >> yeah. i think that our new administration is more focused on placing profits over people and not actually really connecting with real people, real needs that they have. and maybe it's because when

you're a billionaire, it's hard for you to actually connect with what real folks are actually asking for. >> well, we used to have a term in the '60s called pigs. i thought it was a very good term. we knew exactly what it meant. take it now. rape the land. grab it, use it, throw it away, and who gives a damn about your kids or anything that's coming later, including human life. >> yeah. i don't think our president is actually thinking about the future. i don't think he's thinking about our next generation, and it's actually really interesting. i think the way he approaches policy is that actually like the monopoly game where there are pieces on the board, and you decide which ones are going to be sold off to the highest bidder. but yet people are never a part of that equation. mrs. ramirez isn't a part of that conversation. mr. johnson isn't a part of that conversation. >> but park place is. >> definitely. >> and boardwalk. here's the question. i discovered something. i was visiting a friend out in montana recently, and i learned that you could get -- if you

reach a certain age, you can buy for $10 a pass which for the rest of your life you can visit these places, these national parks. i think people watching this program should start thinking about where they want to visit at some point when they get in that van and going heading out to these places. they're all there. they're all free basically once you get a certain age, and it's all yours to go watch and see where the buffalo roam. it's all there. these incredible places, zion in utah. dead horse canyon. i've been out there. i used to work for the last liberal senator from utah. i know this stuff. it's beautiful stuff. i'm glad you resigned. it's a statement. thank you, sir. >> yes. up next, trump's war with the justice system. he and his team are angry that a federal judge blocked his e.o. barring federal money for sanctuary cities. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. look closely. hidden in every swing, every chip, and every putt, is data that can make the difference between winning and losing.

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were you surprised by the

nien ninth circuit rufl something. >> i'm never surprised by the ninth circuit. as i said, we'll see them at the supreme court. >> welcome back to "hardball." president trump says he's taking his fight to defund cities who shield illegal immigrants all the way to the supreme court. as i mentioned earlier, president trump was dealt another blow to another controversial policy by yet another federal judge yesterday when u.s. district court judge william orrick issued a temporary restraining order against trump's executive order targeting so-called sanctuary cities. the president attacked the court in a series of tweets this morning. quote, first the ninth circuit rules against the ban. now it hits again on sanctuary cities. both ridiculous rulings. see you in the supreme court. a lot of our very big country with many choices. everyone noticed that both the ban case and now the sanctuary cases brought in the ninth circuit, which has a terrible record of being overturned. close to 80%. this is trump talking. they used to call this judge shopping, messy system. well, trump's aides were in lockstep with their boss in slamming that judge.

>> i think if you've seen the president's tweets this morning, he's made extremely clear his position on this. it is an outrageous overreach by an unelected judge that simply doesn't understand the law, which is frankly sad that he's a judge, i guess, if you don't understand the law, maybe you shouldn't be judicial decisions. >> it was the intent and overinterpretation of the intent that they have an issue with. i think as it goes to the supreme court, they will clearly rule the president was well within his legal right to do this. i think anybody that's got a basic understanding of the constitution and of basic reading of u.s. code would come to the same conclusions. >> well, white house chief of staff reince priebus chimed in. quote, it's the ninth circuit going bananas. we'll win at the supreme court at some point. let's bring in our "hardball" roundtable. ruth marcus, an opinion writer with "the washington post." ayesha e rasco is a white house

correspondent for reuters. and matt sap toss ki is a reporter for "the washington post." all chime in here. talk among yourselves. what is trump gaining from his peeing match with the judges of this country? >> nothing. in fact, he's hurting himself. look, judges are not going to punish donald trump because he says mean things about them, because he calls them so-called judges or not. >> but he thinks they will because he accused that mexican-american judge of coming out against him because he's been tough on mexicans. >> but it's not a good strategy to be peeing all over the people who are going to rule on your decision. for the president to be tweeting about it or for his advisers to be talking about this crazy ninth circuit, not a good idea. >> next time a use a gross metaphor, don't follow me up on it, okay? >> i'm sorry. >> i think it's a good political strategy because i think that a lot of his base likes the idea of him kind of sticking it to these judges who they think may be liberal and may be engaging

in kind of politics and not just sticking to the facts of the case. so i think for political reasons, i think this might be good for him. >> how do you explain it's always a san francisco judge or a hawaii judge? he does have a pretty good track record of picking good enemies for a conservative president. >> well, look, i mean the cities that sued over this, the county that sued over this are based in california. they didn't judge shop. but i would go back to what ruth said. judges notice this stuff. when you think back to his travel ban, the ninth circuit -- >> tell us about his words hurt him in the court. >> look, in the travel ban case, they absolutely cited that he wanted a muslim ban, and they said that amounted to religious discrimination and that was the problem, him speaking publicly. in this case, he said his executive order was a weapon. so even while the justice department was arguing, well, it's toothless. it's just a restatement of what is already the law, the judge said, no, you went on tv and said this is a weapon. that's a problem, and i need to block it. >> so, ruth, when it all comes down to the fact he loses all these cases, he's probably going to lose on the travel ban.

the case on the -- it's a complicated case, the sanctuary city thing. it's not going to be easy to resolve. every city is a little different, so we'll see. how does it help him politically to be at war? roosevelt did this, remember? he packed the supreme court, and it cost him the '38 election. >> i'd like to say i don't personally remember. >> i do. the '38 election is one of the few times roosevelt had it shoved back in his face. >> there may be with his base picking fights with unelected judges, which i don't think you can say judge anywhere, you just have to say unelected judges might be a good strategy. but losing in court is not actually a very good strategy. he may win in the end on this travel ban at the supreme court, but this is not the way to go. by the way, this notion -- >> does anybody think electing judges makes it a cleaner system? give me a break. i'm from a big city. it is not a cleaner system. you got to run for office, you got to raise money, make political friends. >> electing judges is terrible.

>> in an exclusive interview with the washington examiner, president trump said yesterdwede has absolutely considered proposals that would split up the ninth circuit court of appeals where judges have blocked two of his executive actions. he's going to try to block-bust the circuit court in california. >> if mean is he going to break up the single district judge that ruled against him? you know, breaking up the ninth circuit, i don't think helps him here. he's inaccurately saying the ninth circuit ruled against him here. it's one judge. and what would you do, you know? these states, california, is going to sue in california. >> you know, maybe ten years ago there was a conservative move to say judges can't deal on judicial review. they can't decide if something is constitutional or not. the conservatives tried to get that through. >> i mean in this case, this idea of breaking up the ninth circuit has been around for a while. i guess the republicans have been trying it since the 1980s, they haven't really been successful. with the makeup of the senate, it's not clear whether they would be this time. but i guess, you know, if you want to give it a try --

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$7 trillion. >> added to the national debt by this tax proposal. >> added to the national debt. we have a piece about to go up by a former republican cbo director, douglas holtz aiken calls it a fairy tale and not empirical. >> it will be interesting to see if the republicans who say they are going to fight him or not. >> tomorrow, thursday, the white house will have a meeting to decide whether to stay in the paris climate agreement. there's been a lot of back and forth over this, and it's not really clear where the administration's going to come out. so that will definitely be something to watch. >> can we bet on that yet? is it probable or improbable that we stick with it? >> i think it's unclear. i think he's going to hear different things from his advisers, they're trying to get a single policy on that. >> matt. >> today, homeland security unveiled this new office to deal with victims who have come into contact with illegal immigrants. so even while some portions of trump's plans on immigration are being blocked by the court -- >> what did he call them, angel parents? >> voice.

>> what is this group he calls parents who lose kids to -- >> is that another group? >> that's what he calls them. thank you. coming up, the man at the helm. organization fighting poverty. our friend wes moore is the new ceo of the robin hood foundation. he joins me next. this is "hardball," where the action is. the whisperer? why do they call him the whisperer? he talks to planes. he talks to planes. watch this. hey watson, what's avionics telling you? maintenance records and performance data suggest replacing capacitor c4. not bad. what's with the coffee maker? sorry. we are not on speaking terms.

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at planters, we put fresh roawhich has its drawbacks.an, guys, know anything about this missing inventory? wasn't me! the cheeks don't lie, chet... irresistibly planters. you cannot talk about economic advancement without also talking about education. you cannot talk about education without also talking about health. you cannot talk about health without talking about jobs. all these things are interconnected, and i think part of the frustration that we have in so many communities, communities like mine in baltimore, is we have a situation where we're continually asking the same people to be patientent. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was retired army captain wes moore on "hardball" right after those baltimore riots two years ago, speaking to his commitment to providing opportunities for members of less privileged communities. now moore is taking that drive to new york as the new ceo of robin hood, a charity that aims to improve the lives of low

income new yorkers by funding groups such as advocates for children and the affordable housing alliance. he takes it on by the way as president trump's white house budget seeks to cut safety net programs. we know that, including ones that provide after-school and summer learning for students and that help low-income families pay their energy bills. wes moore joins me right now. wes, congratulations on your -- what's the right word? philanthropy or good will or whatever. you are definitely taking on this tidal wave of cuts that are coming toward people that often are the ones who live in tough neighborhoods, who have a tough day to day, and especially when they see all these programs around them cut like trump's doing. how do you overcome that tidal wave? >> these are folks who live in communities that have been chronically and generationally and, you know, live in a concentrated poverty. for many of them, that's all they've ever known. listen, chris, it's never been easy being poor in this country. it is increasingly difficult being poor in this country. and that has long-term implications and consequences on all of us.

and i think the thing that, you know, that i really want to push and the thing why i'm so excited to team up with robin hood on this is understanding the fact that, you know, we didn't get here in terms of poverty where we are in this country where to the point in new york alone, 1.8 million new yorkers live in poverty, and millions more are the working poor, the ones who are right on the cusp. we know we didn't get here overnight, and we know we're not going to solve it overnight, but we've got to start thinking about holistic solutions as a way of being able to address a larger chronic problem that has impacted so many penal ople in society. >> what do you think of when you think of not the safety net or the rope you can climb out of this? i could say the best thing in the world would be a kid who is doing okay in school, a "c" student, he's about 17 or 18 and hears about a program for a company that says if you get through high school, you graduate, you're going to get a job from us, or we're going to make sure you take the courses that will help you get a job with us, some sense of the light at the end of the tunnel?

that would be my goal. but, you know, it's a holistic thing. you say it's 1.8 million people, mothers, grandmothers, grandkids, babies. how do you get them all out? which way do you go? individual or as a group? how do you do it? >> we can't underestimate the importance of the personal success stories, right? i mean it goes back to the old analogy of the starfish and say, well, you know, you didn't save all the starfish. then you throw one starfish back, and you say it mattered to that one. that does matter. >> that's kamu by the way. >> and that does matter, right? honestly think about my own story, chris. i came up in neighborhoods that were chronically neglected, and the worst thing about it is that we all knew it. we all knew we were not part of a larger conversation, and there were people -- there were individuals, there were organizations that individually helped to pull me and pull my family and pull us to a different place than we were in before. but the truth is this. we're never going to cherry pick

our way out of a structural problem. the structural problem is poverty. the structural problem is whether you're talking about education, health, infrastructure, whether you're talking about transportation, whether you're talking about a variety of different issues, we have people in many cases through no fault of their own are born into a situation that we do have a collective responsibility to be able to address. >> come up with ideas. you got a great new post, sir. i hope we hear from you again. >> you will. >> wes moore, robin hood. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." two become one.

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trump watch, wednesday, april 26, 2017. today trump's men released a cor

that cope ya of goods for the american people. the wealthy corporate types will go wow at the cut in rate. the wealthy overall will love his killing of the estate tax, which means lots of money staying in a few families for lots of generations. he will make everyone happy, i'll bet, with the simpler tax form, even me. i don't believe the tax forms should be so complicated that people are forced to hire accountants to do their taxes. if it's a requirement under the law to file taxes, then you could go to jail for not doing it, you should be able to obey that law yourself, not with loads of billable hours and a thick pile of supporting documents. i'm just saying. look, i've been through this with ronald reagan. cutting taxes is a hard move to fight. it's the republicans i expect who will do the initial fighting. they've spent history talking about the dangers of high deficits. they can see what trump is proposing here. they can stand with their principals or their leader. i've got a hunch it's not going to be their principles. it will be important to watch the democrat however, including

the progressives. will he h will they buckle to the tide of easy opinion and give away the store? and that's "hardball" for now. thin thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> the plan gets better and better and better. >> trumpcare rides again. >> and it's gotten really, really good, and a lot of people are liking it a lot. >> as the white house backs off yet another shutdown ultimatum, it agrees to gut even more patient protections and gets the freedom caucus endorsement. then the president's cliff's notes tax plan. >> i call it a magic unicorn. >> what we know about the trump wish list and how it would benefit him. >> will the president release his tax returns so that -- >> the president has no intention. plus senator