. hi, we're in new york. welcome to "the point." we hope you'll stay with us for the next two hours. my point on the first 100 days as trump takes a vktry lap, what has he accomplished? and the home body president. 100 days and zero foreign trips. why trump is doing far less diplomacy than recent presidents and what will that mean for america's place in the world? plus, paying for the wall. trump's struggling to get the mexican government to pay for it. there is a new dwridea to have man pay instead. a weird story you don't want to miss. r top story is accountability facing the trump administration. president trump may not like the 100-day yardstick. he is living by it holding that rally in pennsylvania, doing an

extended sunday morning interview and asking "the washington post" to publish his op-ed about the first 100 days. he is dependent on the media to make his case. he is arguing he'll get more done in the next 100 days. but if the next 100 days are going to be different, does that mean trump will be different? in that interview, no real signs of change. trump continued to make policy on the fly. insist obama care is dead when as everyone saw last month it's alive right now because republicans are keeping it alive. >> they say we don't cover pre-existing conditions. we cover it beautifully. i'll tell who you doesn't cover pre-existing conditions, obamawaobam obamacare, you know? it's dead. >> pre-existing was optional for the states. >> it's a fix. >> so you're saying it's go gog to be pre-existing for snerve. >> this evolved over a period of three or four weeks. >> it has evolved.

vice president pence says this new bill is coming soon. >> but he signed over 30 different executive orders on virtually every one of the topics that you just referred to. and we're working with the congress. i think health care reform, repealing and replacing obama care just around the corner. >> the president also pushing back hard today on the promise or premise that he's changing positions. he blames the media for inaccurately reporting stance on safe china and nafta. >> president xi is working to try and resolve a very big problem for china also. and that's north korea. can you imagine if i say by the way, how are you doing with north korea? also, we're going to announce that you're a currency manipulator tomorrow. the mainstream media never talks about that. they say please would you rather than terminating nafta, i was all set to do it. i was going to do it as we're sitting here. i would have had to delay you. i was going to do it today. i was going to determine nature nafta. they called up and said would

you negotiate? and i said yes. >> but the reversals are coming swiftly. a few of most recent last week. he reversed his position to pull out of nafta at this time which you just heard him refer to the white house. the popular 401-k tax deduction will be gone from the bill. an hour later they added it back into the plan. today mcmaster ensuring south korea the u.s. will actually pay for their missile defense system. the president said they should pay for it themselves on thursday. was the president lying about what south korea should pay? probably not. the evidence we do have suggests he was just out of the loop which has some people asking which would be worse? joining me now, joan walsh and david corn and a former aide to republican darrell isa. david, which would be worse? do you believe the president in the sund interew just played when he said he was literay going to cancel nafta todaright before t interview except for t phone calls?

>> this is the funneldamental problem with trump and the last 100 days and the next 1,000 days if he stays in office. that you is can't trust whatever he says. you don't know if he's telling the truth, not telling the truth, if he's forgotten, if he's lying on purpose. everything he says is situational. he did that a million times during the campaign. we know that all politicians left, right, democratic, republican often play footsie and play games with the truth. donald trump set records for the statements about how many people attended the inauguration and three hundred dromillion people voting illegally. he denies what he said the day before or the nano second before if it's not relevant. and, therefore, it's kind of hard to assess what he believes, what he thinks, what he's going to do and what he's thinking at

any moment in time. and that makes it i think very hard for the media. and very hard for anybody who is trying to pay attention and get a sense of what he may or may not do. >> joan, he seems emphatic. he looks like he might really believe that he was about to cancel nafta. >> he might really believe it. i think you really framed best way to approach both the first 100 days as well as however many days he has left. which would be worse, that he was ignore anlt of the policy or deliberately lying? ignorant about the underlying issues? you know, we could go back and forth about this. and that's why i think it's been so difficult for the media to really gb ahold of issues and hold on to them. he knows if it's unpopular, he might change his mind. he might not. we don't really know who's in charge of this decision over keeping coverage for people with pre-existing conditions. we will eventually see a bill or not or maybe not see a bill. but they're trying to keep the ground shifting under us all the

time. and i think i'm really happy that 100 days is over. i'm happy that we survived it. thank god. but i'm also happy we can leave this framework behind to an extent. i feel like it's again journalists trying to catch hold of truths when there is no truth with this man. we know that he has tweeted 498 times in the first 100 days. and only done one solo press conference. that's a metric that is disturbing. otherwise, we're comparing apple ands oranges even within his own comments about the various issues. so it's been -- we're all tired. >> well, it's a little bit of extra honesty at the end. journalistically tired. one thing that jumped out at me that i think was, you know, sort of inadvertently telling is a kind of fin alt so what is not working very early in the administration to feel that way. take a listen to donald trump on

the relationship with chuck shum wrer typically there is some sort of effort to make it sound like you can get something don even if you can. >> senator schumer is a bad leader, not a natural leader at all. he works hard to study leadership. when you have to study leadership, you have problems. he is a poor leader, known him a long time. and he's leading the democrats to doom. it's sad to see for our country what's happening to the democrat party. >> what did you think was kind of going through trump's mind there, almost an obituary statement about his relationship. >> he is summing up the democrats to be reasonable and why the agenda stalls. why things he promises like the obamacare doesn't work. he is putting that at the feet of chuck schumer. the reason that it is the law of the land is because he can't get his own party's house in order

as republicans and the most conservative republicans are the ones who block that repeal and replace first time down. but it's just very telling. trump is always in search of an enemy. always in search of snoun blame. we saw his success in the presidential primary where he had 16 other republican candidates to foil off of and point fingers at what is broken. yet hillary clinton to foil off of in the general. and then he became the president. and then he started pointing fingers at the media and then chuck schumer. it is always somebody else's fault. it is just telling that the same president that he was on day one and two, same president he is on day 100. it will be the same president he'll be on day 1,000 if he gets that far. >> you talk about the finger pointing. joan, kurt mentions multiple human beings at the rally he also pointed the finger at an animal that he brought up before. take a listen. >> you know what we're going to have? we're going have problems. we have to very, very carefully vet. we have to be smart. we have to be vigilant. so here it is.

the snake, it's called the snake. instead of saying thank you, that snake gave her a vicious bite. i have saved you, cried the woman. and you've bitten me, heaven's why? you know your bite is poisonous and now i'm going to die! >> joan? >> ar snichi? >> joan? >> it's just completely insane. i don't know where to go with it. but, yes, now we have snakes. that we must fear. yeah. it was very terrifying moment. >> i mean for students of trump political history, david, he first brought out that story which is based on sort of an old blues song, poem in january of

2016. early in the campaign. and it's almost like he's just going back to his greatest hits. they're not his greatest hits. they tend to be co-opted statement like reagan who said make america great first or this being a song. by the way, viewers may know i don't have a problem quoting songs. i do have a problem turning songs into public policy. and the question is what does the snake poem tell us if anything about immigration policy? >> you know, the issue here is at what point can you say that president of the united states is a man who is somewhat unhinged? we've had in the last week him saying a couple of times, gosh, didn't know this job would be so hard. huh? i thought it would be easier. we had him in an interview a few days ago tell "washington post" reporter, you know what you should do? you should put a map of the electoral college victory, my electoral college victory on the front page of "the washington

post." i mean these are not the statements of a balanced rational individual who has a good sense of his place in the world and who is a responsible adult. i know it is scary and sounds hyperbolic to say all these things. donald trump just not a mature individual. >> david corn, i want to pause on that point and everyone can let it sink in. some of it is potentially concerning. joan, david and kurt all stay. so the panel will be back with me later on in the show. let me tell folks what is up xt. the home body president. donald trump has not left the country. can you put america first by ignoring the world? we're going to dig in. also, what does the mexican government and el chapo have in common? republicans want both of them to pay for the wall. we'll dig into ted cruz's proposal to finance a border wall with mexican drug money.

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since becoming president, donald trump has not left the country. he barely left the country club. but to day trump sent ivanka to better tloin participate in a women's conference making her the first trum top attend a women's conference that didn't include a swimsuit competition. >> may have been a rocky trip for ivanka trump to berlin there. give her credit for doing face-to-face diplomacy abroad. ivanka may be comfortable on the road. she said she did not get that from her father. saying fit were up to him, he'd seldom leave new york. long time trump adviser and gop operator agreed saying trump likes to be on the couch with a good cheeseburger and watch tv. he is a home body. that is fine as parnl choice. are his instincts impacting our foreign policy? president obama had been to nine

countries. george w. bush didn't go as far but he it in two trips before the end of the first 100 days and trump has not made any trips abroad. zero. it is obviously hard to build alliances without visiting allies or only talking to them when they come to washington. and if you think about it, it's also pretty reactive, right? should we be paying more attention to the country that's just happen to want to send their leaders here more often? in the past, republican presidents used the trips to build good will. >> i want you to know that we consider you a friend of mexico. a friend of mexican people and a friend of mine. >> so far mexico's president and donald trump by contrast haven't even agreed on where they would hold a meeting. george w. bush sought trips across north america as a basic partst job and even if he agreed with trump on certain policies like reducing foreign aid. now trump's turn inward is not

only a bi-product of his home body vibe. he made it clear on the campaign trail he was going to focus more on the u.s. and less on the world. >> you've heard me say it before and i will say it again. from this day forward, it's going to be only america first. from now on, it's going to be america first. >> it's america first. you better believe it. it's time. it's time, right? it's time. slogans work because they can mean just about anything to anyone. but perhaps it is also time to ask what america first actually means as policy. america first took off as a moment to keep the u.s. out of world war ii and faded when japan bombed pearl harbor.

the white house website currently cites america first foreign policy but doesn't give a doctrine for how the u.s. will intervene abroad or when the president will engage. parentally america first can mean repealing nafta one minute and then not repealing it the next. it can mean cozying up the to the russians and then saying you're going to get tough on them. it could mean campaigning more on the war in the northeast and then bombing a new country. >> we're now having dessert. and we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake that you've ever seen. and president xi was enjoying it. so what happenscy said we just launched 59 missiles heading to iraq. >> headed to syria? >> yes. heading towards syria. >> every president wields vast military pow areas broad from the comforts of home. few have ever seem to relish that dynamic more though enjoying cake at a vacation home while overseeing the bomb fg a

region that particular president has never thought to visit. joining us now back with me joan walsh, msnbc political analyst and david corn from mother jones and steve clemens joins us as well. steve, let me start with you. you look at this situation. is this a mood? is it a policy? or is it not a policy because it doesn't have content? >> i think it's both policy and just donald trump doesn't like to travel abroad. it's just too much trouble. different time zones, jet lag. you know, he's just not into the global thing. he is into having people come to him. and i take him at his word. he said that, you know, he is -- he has this bizarre notion that america can basically close itself off from most of the rest of the world. and not suffer from that. and we see it repeatedly both in his straight policies, a lot of the foreign policies and naive and disconnected despite the fact that he's been a lot of places and done hotel deals and

licensing deals abroad. he seems to be very, you know, he's just not curious about the rest of the world. i think that's driving that. i think that translates into policy and it translates into a bit of disregard to our allies that i think don't know where they stand with him or us. >> yeah. i think one of the weirdest parts from a pro trump per inspect sieve one of the arguments is deal maker. the personality and very presence of him that would change things. and that by the way has arisen in many foreign affairs discussions about whether the people can get along. take a look at george w. bush and the way that he did his style about rich to mexico. >> mexico is the first foreign country i have visited as president. and i intend it to be that way. our nations are bound together by ties of history, family,

values, commerce, and culture. >> steve, out to the panel, steve first, what is the foreign policy import of a president like bush there saying that in the country, to that country? >> well, i think, you know, with someone like george bush or barack obama or bill clinton, first countries they went, to the first clusters they went to reflected what were nationa security priorities of that presidency, asia for george h.w. bush. canada and mexico always rank highly because they're our neighbors and our largest trading partners. donald trump is just about offended every close ally the united states has had in one way or another. maybe with the exception of japan to give him a little credit. there fundamentally, he acted diselectricitied and he offended allies while hugging and tipping his thoothat to a lot of thugs d

the world. because he hasn't gone anywhere beyond the country and demonstrated that, there is still a big question mark about what his foreign policy means. >> joan, speak to that and the contrast there with his family member advisors, ivanka and jarrod cued kushner here having abroad more than him now. >> it's crazy. he sends jared kushner with no real portfolio to iraq where wearing his vest. i'm glad he was protected. he didn't go there himself. i think there are so many dangerous imcomplications of this home body approach. one is that shows he's not terribly curious about the rest of the world. he's just not into learning about different cultures, putting up with all the down side and time zones and different languages that he doesn't speak, et cetera. that is one thing. it's also -- and steve talks about this. it's incredibly flud a way. it's lovely that he is hosting people at mar-a-lago and bombing

people over chocolate cake. but it's just such a sign of arrogance and almost contempt to say, you know, buddy, you have to come to me. we've seen that in business meetings where there just people. it's a power sign. you got go talk to them. you have to go kiss the ring. and when barack obama and even george w. bush listening to that little piece where he acknowledges the bonds we have and how mexico matters to us by standing there in mexico. not, you know, not tweeting it or something. so there is something psychologically very disturbing about what it tells us about this man. and also bad i think for our own domestic interests. and it's lt not like he's building infrastructure while he's at home. hasn't gotten anything done here. that is not the excuse either. >> it's not that he's meeting with congress, to be clear. you mention that the it palm stake house -- steakhouse in

washington. >> it's more than five guys. go ahead. >> david, is this a weird america power move? is this a table at the palm? or is this not called out? >> i mean, it's, you know, to crib hear from both steve and joan, it more evolves around him literally. and, you know, steve talked about this being a product of his lack of cure oscy. i mean, a lack of curiosity leads to ignorance. think of when he said who knew north korea could be so complicated? anybody who reads the up into or traveled in the region and spoke to experts there would know. this and at the same time, it's not surprising that he's not taking much of an interest in this sort of international diplomacy. look what he -- look what is

happening at the state department. he is trying to cut the ranks by over 30%. and he just doesn't really show much interest in the whole notion of diplomacy, international activities or pin appointments given to people that have no experience. he's not approaching this in a serious man area cross the board. >> steve, briefly in closure, what is the way this will be tested? how would we see if this actually becomes a problem? >> i want to bet david corn a five guys hamburger that in the upcoming trips, donald trump has committed himself to an awful lot of foreign travel. he promised gentleman pavenlt he promisedening glanld, germany, china, that he would make these foreign trips. we know in may he is supposed to go to the nato leader summit in brussels. and so if you kind of look at it, we can take stock of those. i bet he canceled half of them. >> that's interesting. you're predicting he's

cancelling. my executive -- >> he cancelled, postponed, gets out. he doesn't like to go abroad. and so he's being nice at the moment. i actually don't think we're going to see this you know, i don't think we're going to see him fulfill his roster of pledges on international travel. >> all right. from the palm to five guys. steve clemens. >> does david accept? >> i agree with you. i'll take you -- i'll buy you a burger at five guys any time. >> i'll join you. >> now maybe the signature initiative of donald trump's next 100 days but the tax proposal clocks in at barely a page. brevity is ne it is real governing? in my next seg ment, normal or not, we're going to look at. that. also, the democratic resistance in the streets again this weekend. this time on the issue of climate change. now is public protest the best way to continue the fight against trum snp we're going to talk later in the show to one of the country's most prominent progressive thinkers about the pat will plan ahead.

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that's just the beginning. we're putting in a massive tax cut for the middle class and business. >> here's what we do know from the white house. the plan would eliminate several tax brackets. it would cut down the estate tax which taxes transer ifs of wealth through inheritage for mostly millionaires.

those are expense of ideas. if the government takes less money from taxing those large millionaire estates, it's got get that money from somewhere else or grow the deficit. so how does the white house finance the plan? how would it amend the current very long tax code? they don't say. here is what the white house distributed at their new announcement. just that page. you see that? it's not economic analysis. it is certainly not a peeiece o legislation. it's one page. people may like theuzz wds on that paper or they may not. but you can't really call those buzz words a legislative plan. here's how "the new york times" fact checked the white house's claim it was releasing a quote tax plan. trump's skeletal outline of a tax package unveiled at the white house in a single page statement filled with bullet points was less a plan than a wish list. if you do like trump's talk on taxes that, is bad news.

it shows this is still talk on a piece of paper. president reagan complained about the length of the legislation. but all of the pages are law and that means every line twunt change whether you want to amend it or cut it requires a new line of law. even a bill to shorten the 2600 page tax code would be a long bill. it would reference mt pages. the summary doesn't do anything like. that by avoiding details it also kicks the hard conversations down the road. if you want to win, you have to have the conversations first then release a real plan with compromises for everyone involved. trump, of course, failed to do that on the loudowith the hk bi appease to be the problem with taxes too if which is good news if you're rooting for trump to

fail. call it a plan and hope others fill in the details, the saens no. that is not how complex legislation is normally passed. if you want to make america truly great again, you might need more than slogans on a single piece of paper. now up next, trump versus the sanctuary cities. the white house tried to withhold federal funds to shows at this timei -- those cities. trp is still pushing on the ish u. who will win? we'll have onest lawyers fighting trump next.

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at the heart of my administration's efforts to restore the rule of law has been a nationwide crackdown on criminal gangs and that means taking the fight to the sanctuary cities that shield the dangerous criminals from

removal. >> president trump certainly has taken the fight to sanctuary cities but he is losing. a judge issuing a nationwide block of trump's effort t deny federal funding to sanctuary cities, that term refers to city that prefer to shield undocumented workers from federal law enforcement. the ruling rebuked trump for overstepping his pending powers. trump's position is he's in charge of federal money and he may deny it to cities that are not cooperative. there is some appeal to the idea that if it is your money you can spend it how you want. the musician drake famously rapped, "there's nothing mute uni -- mut you' mutual about my funds". there is something mutual about those funds. here is how the judge put it in new ruling against trump saying the executive orders unconstitutional because it's an improper attempt to wield congress' exclusive spending power. and the judge cited john

roberts' hooh obamacare ruling. they also have the right to disagree with the must frez. the doj warned local go. s to comply with the requests. they're deciding what to do as they face off against an administration that clearly wants to push them into complying with a federal immigration policy that many oppose. with me now, the reverend raji dosha, greg shannon and a spial guest, cody harris. he is suing president trump in that santa clara case. cody, why did you win this first round in the case and do you think you'll ultimately prevail? >> yes, we do think we'll ultimately prevail because it was a pretty straight forward argument. the executive order as written is flagrantly unconstitutional. and we inform the court and our motion papers that it violated the constitution in several ways. what was striking was that the

federal government in court has never put forward a coherent explanation yf they think that executive order is in fact constitutional. they raised a lot of procedural arguments saying we sued too soon. we should wait. but the guts of the case is about is this executive order constitutional? can the president do what he seems to think he can do? >> cody, the government also had this weird argument where they said and this really dove tails with something we were talking about earlier, they said don't listen to the president. he's not really going to take all the money. that's just a bully pulpit. and the judge rebuffed that as well. tell us about that. >> right. there say real disconnect between what the president is saying out there in the world and in his tweet ands what his lawyers are saying in court. and what we asked the court to do whashgts lawyers at the county of santa clara asked the court to do is read the order in front of the court and see what says. and the idea that the courts when the judges take the bench they should blind themselves to

what is going on in the world around them and the words of the person who issued and signed the order that, doesn't sit very well. and i think when the court just read the order and coupled that up with what the president has been saying about it, not just on the campaign trail but since he was elected, it just didn't wash. >> so that's all what happens in court. then there is what is happening day to day in the cities. tell us about what your group is doing. >> well, based on the idea that holy one o israel has already chosen sides i the struggle of th oppressed, people on the streets and people within the sank wary movement are wonldering how is it that we're going go ahead and show up for the people as well? and that means going to court with them. it means bringing them properly and safe representation that is not improperly representing them and stealing their money which happens all the time. it also means as they go into deportation proceedings and get detained that, we follow them through it. it is so easy for people to get disappeared even before their cases are finished. >> what do you say to people who are watching at home and saying

okay, you use religious language. there is a common humanity. there are human rights. there are citizens rights and noncitizens rights wlachlt do you say to people who say given all that, if someone isn't supposed to be here or has potentially not been here and done something wrong, shouldn't the government be able to remove them? >> we believe that immigrants don't need to be the only ones that have to follow the law. so does our country. many cases we wind up deporting brem a process has been followed. and so what we want to do is to level the playing field a bit and to show up for people and say just because people are criminalizing you in the public sphere doesn't make you a criminal. and manufacture the people actually do have a right to be here. so they deserve their time in court just like everyone else. what happens is they don't have anyone showing up for them. they get sent way. >> they don't have advocates. greg that, is partst work you do as an advocate houchlt did you view this ruling? it didn't get near lays much attention as the original travel ban rulings that blocked that ban. yet here again we're seeing

federal judges saying the president doesn't have this power. >> that's right. and this ruling is just another example of how this president is banging his head against the constitution. you mtioned the muz lislim ban where he was found to violate first amendment. another prision of the constitution in trying muslims. now we have them blocking the sank wary city effort. what this is really about is him trying to pick a fight with local police chiefs, local sheriff who's are trying to keep their community safe. and these police chiefs are saying if you force us to do your job as the federal government of enforcing immigration law, we're not going to be able to keep our community safe. because witnesses are going to be afraid to come forward. witnesses are going to not come to report those kinds of crimes. and the courts are agreeing with these police chiefs. and the bigger picture here is that the federal government needs to do the thorough immigration enforcement and the president is trying to ramp up a major deportation machine.

he has gone to congress and is asking the congress to take await funds from the local cities. but he's not just doing that. this sais all part of his ram u up on enforcement that includes a request for funding for 15,000 federal more deportation agents and tens of thousands of more detention bets. that's going to cost american taxpayers billions of dollars. and it's not going to do anything to create jobs. >> right. >> it's not going to really help america at all in terms of advancement. >> cody, one of the themes of the first 100 days is trump and his associates can say what they sach say. what differenceoes make? it would seem the comments of session ands the president adversely affected their ability to win this first round which blocked the ban -- this type of sanctuary city funding ban which seems to affect a lot of people's lives. >> that's right. you know, what the president says about his own orders does

matter. an executive order is not like legislation where there are committee hearings and reports that come out of congress as they debate a bill. this is the stroke of a pen. and the person who wrote it, his views on what means, they matter. and when he says things that he is intending to do, here he said he was going to deny federal money, all federal money, to states and local governments all across the country. and in santa clara county relies on $1.7 billion a year in federal reimbursements to provide social services to the most needy residents. to have the president of the united states threatening that money could be gone, you have to take that seriously. the court's take it seriously too. >> i had no idea in a that an entire hospital might be shutting down because of the threat which again it's the way immigration can touch all lives because that affects anyone who goes to that hospital in any situation in that community. we have to leave our conversation here. i'd tlof have alove to have all

back. thank you so much for joining us. appreciate it. >> good to be with you. >> president trump spent his 100th day in office taking jabs at the press spurring the media by skipping the white house correspondent's dinner and using the rally to diss the media as well. we have a really great panel standing by to dive in to discuss trump and the press. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪

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person is donald trump who is happiest when covered in ink. so reports have struggled with how to respond to a president who has a political strategy of fighting with us. the leader of the white house correspondent's association decided to choose last night's big dinner which trump was boycotting as a opportunity to answer some of the attacks. >> it is our job to report on facts and to hold leaders accountable. that is who we are. we are not fake news. we are not failing news organizations. and we are not the enemy of the american people. >> i happen to know jeff. i know he is a great guy with a hard job. repeating the president's misleading slurs about journalism is not really the clearest way tbu them. it's defensive, probably

reinforces the fray. and jeff wasn't alone, legends like bob woodward weighed in as well. >> mr. president, the media is not fake news. >> our job is to put the best obtainable version of the truth out there, period. especially now. >> this debate is not about labels. it's about truth. who has it. who is looking for it. and who has a transparent, defensible process for finding it. scientists have that. teachers have that, and good journalists have that. the president's twitter feed does not have it, because it's built on entertainment and partisanship because it shows none of the respect or humility required of institutions that check facts and, thus, by definition must check and correct themselves. if there was something worth celebrating last night, i think

that was it. with me now is journalist david corn, tara deldel a democratic operative who met donald trump as a contestant on apprentice, and former breitbart spokesman kurt bardella. >> you were there this weekend and other weekends. can we begin with your view of e difficult quandary of reporters responding to the president's attacks but how to do it without reinforcing them. >> i think that is hard. the president has the bully pulpit. in his instance that's not an ironic use of the word "bully." he uses it to bully and browbeat because he knows -- i think part of him knows or at least is scared, that he cannot sustain real, strong journalism that fact-checks and vets what he says and does. we talked about this earlier on the show. he has set records, you know, by a factor of ten or 100 in terms of false assertions he has made since becoming president.

and i think, you know, it's been very hard for the mainstream media, for people in established media organizations, to confront first a politician and then a president who has such low regard for the truth. when do you call something a lie? how often can you say that the president has yet again made a claim and accusation without claim or basis. he wh he thought he said susan rice committed a crime, when he said he thought barack obama had wiretapped him. they feel as if they're being drawn into being advocates or crusaders which often they don't feel comfortable with. that's the quandary. how do you cover a fellow who deserves a hyper degree of fact-checking that does end up looking confrontational. >> tara, you know this man as someone who you used to do televised entertainment with. >> right. >> on the side of his mind, what is the best way to parry him without reinforcing reaction, which is what he thrives on?

>> that is the challenge as you said. one of the things we say in politics, if you're defending, you're losing. by definition as you mentioned earlier, with everybody dending against his accusations, the media is now on the defensive. so i think that's, for one thing, the media needs to really ignore trump and just focus on the facts and the truth. i don't think it serves the media to go after him and go tit for tat with him. >> what did you think of what we played there? >> it showed the media was an the defensive. from a purely political messaging standpoint, you don't repeat the messaging of the person attacking you. >> i am not a crook, i am not a crook was not the best way for nixon to make that point. >> exactly. the best thing the media can do is to continue to cover the facts and continue to emphasize the facts that they're going to focus on the facts. >> mm-hmm. just the facts as the saying goes. curt. i want to play for you another

president, bill clinton, who had his own disagreements with the press, because sometimes this thing gets so trump focused we lose the larger arc of it. here is bill clinton in the old impeachment days. >> you don't want to go here, peter. you don't want to go here. not after what you people did. and the way you, your network, what you did, with kenneth starr, the way your people repeated every little sleazy thing he leaked. >> so that was, you know, six years on later from the underlying incident. bill clinton, you could see the vigor there that he felt and that he put forward, in a lot of his allies liked that side of him. very different underlying stories, we can all stipulate that. curt, speak to the larger arc. >> i think the larger arc here is, for trump to win this narrative, the media would have to become complacent. if on day 200 the media just begins to accept that, you know, trump is going to say these

things, he will call us fake news, and they play into that, while missing the really broader, important stories that need to be told, the broader in-depth investigations that need to happen -- trump puts out a lot of these things really to distract everyone. it's like catnip. he is hoping that the so-called urgent gets in the way of the important for media companies and that they spend every minute of every day analyzing every single tweet, what was behind that tweet, palace intrigue, who is leaking to whom instead of talking about conflicts of interest within the white house, talking about what happened, really, with russia and the trump campaign. he is hoping that, by doing these things, the media gets distracted and ultimately good journalism, investigative journalism, media companies putting resources into that, that will be the best weapon commanding all of this. >> tara, it can be so d distracting. the r&b singer khalid says i don't want to fall in love via

tweets. it's hard when you have a life to live. we wanted to look at the history. richard nixon who came up earlier, he loved to turn it and try to make it about the reporter. this obviously predates this administration. richard nixon in a great exchange with dan rather. >> are you running for something? [ laughter ] >> no, sir, mr. president. are you? >> that's a 1974 snap. >> 1974 burn. >> but donald trump, he lives off that. that back and forth that you can do with a reporter. >> that's exactly what he lives off. he wants to pull the media into the mud with him. that's what he wants to do. to kurt's point, investigate, investigate, investigate. so i think that, when you are dealing with donald trump, he is one of the most media savvy people to ever occupy the oval office. and people shouldn't forget that. and responding to every tweet,

responding to everything, it allows him to be out front and to control the narrative. it also distracts, as kurt referenced, from all the things going on, all the important things that need to be reported. that is not lost on donald trump. >> quickly, when you were on the apprentice, did you ever think you were looking at a future president? >> i did not, no. it was interesting to see how his positions have shifted since those days as well. >> do you miss him, do you miss working with him on the show? >> no, i do not. >> that's the final question. thank you all and hope to see you on "the point" soon. we are just getting started. we have a lot more in the next hour with the hundred-day mark behind us. we'll look ahead to the topics facing trump ahead. an update on the russia investigation. will it be truly independent. and will el chapo pick up your bill for the border wall? all that on "the point." stay tuned.

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