>> [naudible ]. >> i would be honored. >> he wentver this in the interview. he assumed power at a young age when his father passed away and there was a lot of potential threats that could have come his way. he's obviously managed to lead a country forward. >> pre-existing conditions are in the bill, and i mandated. i said has to be. >> crucial questions. it's not going to be left up to the states, everyone gets pre-existing -- >> no, but the states will have a lot to do with it. >> i'm not going to tell you everything in his brief. he's well aware when he speaks with a leader, he gets briefed on what they're doing, what they've done. that's all part of the brief. >> had andrew jackson been a little later, you wouldn't have had the civil war. people don't ask that question. why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out? >> just a taste of the absolutely dizzying 48 hours of talk from president trump even by his standards.

in a series of interviews he left financial markets rattled, congress blind-sided, his own staff baffled and historians scratching their heads. douglas brinkley framed it, quote, this way. it seems to be the most bizarre 24 hours in american presidential history and it was all just surreal, in real disarray and a confused mental state from the president. joe, you were equally perplexed, tweeting, though it seems impossible, this is getting worse by the day. is the president spinning even more out of control? good morning everyone. it's tuesday, may 2nd. >> happy birthday, mika. >> happy birthday. >> 26 years. >> 50! >> wow. >> 26 years. >> i'm 50. with us onset veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> legendary. >> senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark hl

print, chair of the department of african-american studies at princeton and columnist for "time" magazine, also almost as good as me in miming, eddie glaude, junior. very proud of you the other day. you were the only one who stood by me with the mime. i'm good at it. also with us, pulitzer prize historian jon meacham. >> happy birthday again. we'll be talking about it much more. >> no, we're not. i don't think we should. i don't think anyone wants to celebrate my 50th birthday. >> the entire show. >> no, it's good. i'm very warm. is that something that comes with age? >> oh, my lord. how fun. i think it's kind of a fun age. should we get to news? >> first of all, i want to -- we could talk about north korea and everything else. i want to talk about what's happened over the last 24 hours.

presidential historian doug brinkley said, described the president's confused mental state. i saw the transcripts from just the rambling, talking about andrew jackson and the civil war. we've seen him try to bluff his way through things before. you take that and john dickerson. it was really, really shocking. with dickerson he was mumbling, rambling around, incoherent. >> we have that. we'll show it to you. and then just sort of quit talking, walked off. >> do we have the dickerson tape lined up? while we're getting that. jon meacham, we can ask the easy question about andrew jackson. obviously he was wrong about andrew jock son and the civil war but a matter of about 15 years. i want to ask you the more difficult question. do you follow douglas brinkley

in your assessment that the president of the united states certainlyov over the past 48 hos has appeared to have a, quote, koun confused mental state, more so even than before? >> i think you're right. reading the transcripts is always fascinating, because you do get inside the brain and begin to see how much bluffing does go on. the image that came to my mind was less about confusion and more about -- felt more like a pinball machine or arcade. he's just this steel ball that hits something, the bells go off and he bounces off and hits something else. that's not the most reassuring image you want at the nuclear age at the highest levels. >> what was the line from the civil war? nobody asked this question before -- >> why didn't anyone work that one out? >> he started, but nobody has asked this question before, but why did we even have a civil

war? my mother had dementia for ten years. that sounds like the sort of thing my mother would say today. she would say people don't ask that question, why did we have a civil war? it's beyond the realm. i'm not trying to be anything here but very direct. that's something that a 5-year-old might ask, but that is not anything that any grownup that i have ever been around in my entire life would ever let pass from their lips. that has been the central question of how did america begin with slavery as our original sin and how did we move past that original sin in part through the civil war, mike. i have a john dickerson clip coming up next that's equally disturbing.

>> the question is one of the single most posed questions in the life of this country in american history. jon meacham just referred to reading the transcripts. it's an incredible experience to read them, fascinating. i would also addis tushing. they're very disturbing to read. the employment of language for a president is one of the most vital aspects of the presidency. if you're of a certain age with a certain attention span, and i would measure it maybe with people of the age over 45 who aren't working around looking at their phones, they're used to a president using language to move things, point things out, emphasize the importance of things. >> strategically. >> it's very upsetting, kind of depressing to read the transcripts of this particular president as he rambles on anecdotally, ad libs about things that are critical to the future of this country.

>> mika, this is not about donald trump being ignorant, not about donald trump not reading books. is not about donald trump not knowing the issues. we have known that in the past. alex, just get lined up for us, if you will, donald trump back on the "today" show in the 1980s, we'll show you how donald trump spoke back in the '80s and how he spoke when we knew him for most of the ten years we've known him. mika, your impression as we were coming back and seeing a flood of all the stories and the transcripts. what was your impression? >> well, i think we talked about this yesterday, and i think it's worth bringing up on the show. it's disturbing and not just what you're talking about. i tweeted stop lking. what's really concerning me is

theris no one, absolutely no one in the white house who can get him to stop talking, there's nobody. everyone says, oh, certain people can get to him and they're the secret weapon. there's no secret weapon. he's ligterring right and left and i can only imagine his stach is sitting there with his head in their hands because no one can stop him. >> he said he would be honored yesterday to meet with the dictator who is one of the most heinous tyrants on the face of the earth. they had to flip-flop that. >> he's not listening to anyone. >> he doesn't seem to remember what he said just five minutes ago. he doesn't know his own positions on a health care bill that he's passing. he seems confused. this was a president of the united states yesterday with john dickerson. it's a baffling clip. i don't get it. >> didn't obama give you any advice that was helpful that you

think -- >> well, he was very nice to me, but after that we've had some difficulties, so it doesn't matter. words are less important to me than deeds. you saw what happened with surveillance and everybody saw what happened with surveillance. >> difficulties how? >> you saw what happened with surveillance, and i think that was inappropriate. >> what does that mean? >> you can figure that out yourself. >> the reason i asked is you called him sick and bad. >> you can figure it out yourself. he was very nice to me with words and when i was with him. but after that there has been no relationship. >> you stand by that claim -- >> i don't stand by anything. you can take it the way you want. i think our side has been proven very strongly and everybody is talking about it and frankly, it should be discussed. i think that is a very big surveillance of our citizens, i think that's a very big topic and a topic that should be number one and we should find out what the hell is going on. >> i just wanted to find out -- you're the president of the united states.

you said he was sick and bad -- >> you can take it any way you want. >> but i'm asking you. you don't don't want it to be fake news. >> you don't have to ask me. >> why? >> because i have my own opinions. >> i want to know your opinions, you're the president of the united states. that's enough. thank you. thank you very much. >> mark halperin. >> i think the thing with north korea is the most serious. by saying he would be -- expressing respected and honor and saying he would meet with him one-on-one, the white house has tried to walk it back, but in the context of all the other things he's said, that's so unsettling to japan, to south korea. mike said it, presidential words matter, and over the course of interviews over the course of a week with such i'm precision about history and his history on health care and then to float the notion to be honored to meet

the head of north korea, this is where the i'm precision and behaving the way he's behaving has real world impact. >> eddie, he said not so long ago that we could be heading to a major, major war with north korea. now he's honored to meet -- it's as if he doesn't remember what he said five minutes ago. >> it's really interesting. on the one hand, we've seen this with regards to his embrace, quote, unquote of putin, the call to erdogan of turkey, now the gesture to north korea and also the philippines. there's a sense at which there's this attraction to strong men. there's that element. and then there's the sense, the clip -- kind of the reaction of a petulant child, instead of owning responsibility for what he did, there's the displacement and the reaction to just go, i'm done, and sit down at a desk

with nothing to do. >> i don't stand by anything is his quote. i don't stand by anything. >> the third point is he seems to make not knowing good. that is to say, there's a sen sense -- the comments around andrew jackson, not knowing, just ignorance, a good. it seems to justify people who are his base not wanting to be informed. that seems deeply problematic for democracy. >> let's go to the andrew jackson clip. we do have the north korea one we played in the open. first, this is donald trump he writing history at the very least. take a look. >> i mean, had andrew jackson been a little bit later, you wouldn't have had the civil war. he was, he was a very tough person but he had a big heart. and he was, he was really angry that he saw what was happening

with regard to the civil war. he said there's no reason for this. people don't ask that question, but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out? >> people don't ask that question. jon meacham, go. >> what he's done, and this goes to what we're talking about is taking two unrelated things, largely unrelated things and smashing them together like a couple of blocks. one is this new-found interest in andrew jackson which largely cloms from steve bannon. i spent about an lour, hour and a half with him in 2016 talking about presidents he admired and andrew jackson never came up. steve bannon put this up front. the president was down here in nash vilt, laid a wreath at the tomb. >> jon, have you ever had a student -- ever had a person a

at a book event, ever had an adult say to you people don't ask the question about why we had a civil war or why did we have to have that civil war thing. >> no. it only comes up -- you know these folks, too, it comes up in neocon fed rat circles, people who argue it's states rights, it wasn't slavery, which is completely wrong. there's a whole level of scholarship -- mika, get ready -- >> i was about to say land this plane now. >> exactly. there's an interesting set of questions about could the war have been delayed? lincoln was willing to allow slavery to exist but not expand. that's not what president trump was talking about. he was not worried about the krit tendon compromise of the winter of 1861. what is happening i think is

these different dots get connected often wrongly in his head. just out of curiousity, i'll throw this back to you all, why would we expect anything different? he built his career, built his temporal success on just making stuff up. so why would he stop? >> we would expect something different because he's the president of the united states and he's surrounded himself with one of the strongest foreign policy teams we've maybe seen in decades. over the weekend president trump called the dictator of north korea a smart cookie. i do expect more. i do expect more. >> do you have the "today" show clips from the '80s. find those and you'll see we're not talking about whether -- we're talking about mentally there is a marked change in this man even in the past five years. >> something is up.

>> something is up. >> we sense part of this going and professor meacham would be a valuable addition in terms of carrying on this conversation. it is this. all of us who are parents of children and our parents before us, you put your child in a school bus at the age of 6 or 7, they go to school. you have an expectation when history is being taught, american history in schools, and we no longer teach american history as well as wep ought to. but the combination of myth and memory surrounding the office of the presidents that would be taught to children, george washington, abraham lincoln, that is slowly being chewed away by the language employed by this particular president and the way he uses that language. >> i'm worried he doesn't understand -- >> it seems he doesn't understand the office itself. >> or that there's more going on. we're at the point we can ask if more is going on. >> just for everybody that's out

there asking why this discussion, why now, because it has gotten considerably worse even over i think the past -- as douglas brinkley said, over the past 24, 48 hours have been some of the most confounding, confusing. it seems to be among the most bizarre recent 24 hours in american presidential history. it was all just surreal, disarray and a confused mental state from the president, and i had asked twice what was going on with his mind before i read this from doug brinkley. we followed donald trump. the last 24 hours have been far different, even from what we saw last year. >> all the examples we've talked about are legit to talk about. i'm mostly focused on north korea. >> right. we understand. i think that's the most serious thing.

i'm asking you generally, though, does the president -- do you agree with douglas brinkley that perhaps the past 24 hours have been perhaps donald trump at his most confused? >> i wouldn't go so far as to diagnose him as brinkley seems to do from afar. it's more than 24 hours. >> what about the -- okay. the last week. we'll attach bizarre. has this been the most bizarre week. >> it's a period not just the symbolic end of the 100 days, when he's dealing with the health care situation of tens of millions of americans. not understanding what's in the house bill. >> explain how he didn't know what was in the house bill. >> there's some debate -- the "wall street journal" editorial page tried to bail him out, there's no doubt people with pre-existing conditions will be in worst shape in some parts of the country at least if the

house bill ever became law. he's going around saying people with pre-existing conditions will still be protected. i'm all for talking about the broad sweep of the last week. what i'm saying is for north korea, people worried about their health care, this lack of clarity, sloppy talk has real implicatio implications. >> almost like you're pinpointing those two topics by saying let's analyze what he said about be concerned about a policy level and have a -- we're going to say what -- we'll do it again. i'm not sure he's okay. >> i think there's -- >> i'm not sure he's okay. you have that feeling with people who are not okay, where it starts to dawn on you. >> that it's getting worse. >> much bigger issue. >> worse than it has been. you talk about the ap interview and these other interviews. the president of the united states saying, gee, this is a lot harder than my last job was.

there's not a human being on the face of the earth that wouldn't understand that you were stepping into the most difficult job of your life. look at pictures of presidents walking in and walking out of the white house. gee, this is really hard. >> i thought it was going to be easier. >> i thought it was going to be easier than this. >> i think the cumulative effect of the last 100 days, we're beginning to see it. i want to echo mark's point. to move from the consequences of this instability, what does it portend for the nation and the world, i think it's important to emphasize that. with regard to andrew jackson, we can talk about the frederick douglass comment, the susan b. anthony comment in front of women. he hasn't dmon zraeted a hold on history. we can talk about the flip-flopping the policies with regard to nafta, down the line, health care. >> 500 lives. >> nafta is another great

example where he says, basically tells everybody i'm going to get rid of nafta in the morning. then his advisers show him a map that says these would be the states that would be hurt if we got rid of nafta. okay, i won't get rid of nafta, in the same day. >> that pinball effect that jon meacham was talking about. >> it's beyond bizarre. mika, i want to end this where you began it. there is nobody in the white house that is capable of stopping him from doing serious damage by the day to american alliances and to american treaties and to america's standing across the globe. yes, this man has been erratic from day one, but it has gotten worse. he has, as douglas brinkley said, a confused mental state

that has gotten worse, and we will show you when we come back exactly how much worse it has gotten over the years but that is a problem every day, another radical flip-flop that shows things are not well inside the white house and there's nobody that can step up and stop this. >> still ahead on "morning joe," chairman of the armed services committee, senator john mccain joins the conversation. presidential historians doris kearns goodwin and douglas brinkley join our coverage. and russian opposition leader former chess champion gary casper rov. and tomorrow, senator elizabeth warren will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> if it would be appropriate for me to meet with him, i would

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the billboard music awards. sunday, may 21st eight seven central only on abc. warren will be our guest. him.him. had andrew jackson been a little later, you wouldn't have had the civil war. he was a very tough person, but he had a big heart, and he was really angry that -- he saw what was happening with the civil war. he said there's no reason for this. people don't ask that question, but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out. >> i see what's happening in this country where our so-called allies are ripping us off left and right with japan and saudi arabia and kuwait. they're ripping this country off. i can tell you if i ever was in office which is unlikely because i don't want to be, that wouldn't happen. we wouldn't be taken advantage

of the way we are. we are a debtor nation and we borrow money to defend japan and we pay interest on that money. the country, the united states is being ripped off and it shouldn't happen. >> wow, the white house -- >> there is such a difference, mike. >> in clarity. >> in clarity. perhaps it's exhaustion. perhaps it's the weight of the job. >> anxiety. >> perhaps it's anxiety. >> wu those are all real conditions. >> maybe he's not sleeping at all. we don't know what it is. we're not analyzing anything -- >> not diagnosing. we're analyzing, that's for sure. >> we're not diagnosing anything, but there is no doubt that there is something impacting his thought process. perhaps it is exhaustion. >> and the presidency, impacting the presidency.

>> and this country. somebody needs to get in there and say -- especially his foreign policy leaders saying you have got to stop talking about the philippines, stop talking about north korea. >> who would that be? reince priebus. >> mattis, mcmaster, tillerson. >> they can't, because they're there, mike barnicle, they are in place. >> mcmaster is really the one. >> i'm going to go on a limb and say they probably are trying and they can't, and that's the problem. >> it seems to me that's a reasonable conclusion. you guys have been saying that about the foreign policy team for a while. >> these are the strongest leaders our country has to offer. do you think they wouldn't go in there and say, you've got to stop talking, go to stop tweeting. i want you to show -- we are going to approve everything you say for the next three days or we're out of here, whatever it takes. >> how does the president --

>> they can't do it. >> -- jon meacham from talking about a major, major war with north korea to saying the same week he would be honored to meet the dictator of north korea. >> smart cookie. >> a smart cookie who his white house spokesperson who says, quote, has moved his country forward? >> the hopeful scenario is this a clever dealmaker who sends conflicting signals to keep people off balance and bring them to the table. the negative and arguably more likely scenario is he really doesn't think words have consequences. he says whatever is necessary in that moment like most salesmen, like many people, he wants to take on the color asian of whatever audience he's speaking to. this is a man who began his

political career not on economic nationalism like with the old clip, but with a lie about barack obama and confronted again and again with evidence it was a lie, it took him i think five years, didn't it, to acknowledge that he had been trafficking in something that was not true. we shouldn't be surprised by this does not mean it's not important. because we shouldn't be surprised doesn't mean it's not important. i think one of the problems we have here, and i think even with secretary mattis and even with the scenario mika is laying out, it's very hard, historically speaking, for presidents to learn fundamental lessons once they reach that office. they spend a lot of years being told they're brilliant, told they're wonderful, what a lovely tie, president trump. the people who learn make history. john kennedy learned in 1961 to '62. people can change, but i wouldn't put a whole lot of money on that in this case.

>> again, you make a great point. just because we're not surprised doesn't mean it's not important, and just because we're not surprised doesn't mean the pace is not quickening and the situation is not becoming more dangerous by the day. we'll be right back. a millie dresselhaus doll! happy birthday, sweetie! oh, millies. trick or treat! we're so glad to have you here. ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars? ♪ yasss queen! what if millie dresselhaus,

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somebody was theying the people who voted for trump aren't getting good -- they are going to get the greatest. we'll either have a great plan or i'm not signing it. i said from day one, the best thing i can do is let obamacare die and come in with a plan, but it's not fair with the people. i don't want to set deadlines. i think it's going to be approved. it could be soon, but it could be not so soon. >> the white house hopes to see -- >> good to see there. >> hopes to see a vote on health care overhaul by the end of the week. the president told bloomberg, quote, i want it to be good for sick people. it's not in its final form right now. it will be every bit as good on pre-existing conditions as obamacare. in response, spokesperson for speaker ryan says, quote, the republican plan protects people

with pre-existing conditions. states can't opt out without a high-risk pool to take care of them and waivers never apply to anyone who has been continuously covered. we believe there is more than one way to address this problem. let's bring in political reporter mike mccarron. what are we hearing about a time frame for a vote? >> good morning, mika. a lot of people are confused about what the president is saying, there's a certain lack of message discipline. imagine how you would feel if you were a republican member of congress. this is their moment where they control both the house, the senate and the white house. a number of things they want to get done and they are just stalling and sputderring as they try to do that. they're trying to rescue the health care bill from the jaws of defeat. you reremember the humiliating defeat this past march. resurrected and now they have a chance to do it. let's take a look at what happened yesterday. there's a meeting in the basement of the capital, the republican whips are going over

strategy about how to get the votes to pass this latest iteration of their plan. vice president pence is in another area of the capital, holding audiences with members of the gop, some wavering on whether or not to support this plan. there's a reporter chasing senators around asking how they feel about him referring to senate core warren as pocahon s pocahontas. and then we see president obama say the bill is not in its final form yet. that was not helpful as they try to gather the votes for this. you need to look no further than a congressman from springfield, missouri, representative billy long. he hasn't been in congress for a very long period of time, but lefs a staunch supporter of what happened in committee to report out the republican version, the ahca. now he has reversed course. why? he feels as though the provisions to protect people

with pre-existing conditions have been weakened to the point where it's not going to be effective, not going to give those people the opportunity to get health insurance. the nbc whip count has it now as 20 republican nos. they can only afford to lose two more. it's going to be nip and tuck whether they can get this bill on the floor by the end of the week. >> mike vick cara, thank you very much. mark, the congressman from missouri, billy long, i think donald trump won his district by over 40 points. we heard a lot of consternation from the hill. first of all, the white house being as optimistic as they are about this, and secondly the president changing his tune on what the bill is and what the bill isn't every day. >> you look at what are they doing differently. they are doing some stuff differently on the inside game. there's still no massive public effort to say to the country this is a better thing than what

you have right now. they're not engaged in that except for the president talking about pre-existing conditions in a way not borne out by the reality of the bill for a lot of americans. >> there's nobody, like you said, that's carrying the communication of this bill for ward. so right now this bill is defined, mike, as -- if it's bad, is the last bill, quote, bad, scored as badly as the cbo did, then the democrats will have a talking point that says the republicans took 5 million people off of health care to give tax cuts to the richest 0.01% of americans. there's been no countermessaging saying nobody is taking health care away from these people. they can get health care if they choose to have health care. we're not forcing 25 million people to purchase health care. again, i don't want to get in the middle of that debate.

i'm just saying there's no republican out there that is doing anything but sitting back and getting punched in the face. i'm sorry to go on and on, but house members, if you look at your approval ratings, they are absolutely atrocious. you're either going to have to take control of your agenda or throw your lot in with the president and watch your 18% approval rating go down to 3%. >> you can do the math. >> women and children first, okay? women and children first. then you need to get in the life boats and save yourself. >> i think it's been reported that the aforementioned congressman billy long was called personally by the president who tried to get him to go his way, go the president's way. billy long said no, not going to do that. to what mark just pointed out, and what we've been talking about in a way since 6:00 a.m.,

it's message discipline, the ability to be disciplined enough with the employment of your language. >> for one day. >> ba r you know what's encompassed in the bill you want passed, that you know what pre-existing conditions mean, that you know the failures of obamacare. but he doesn't. so you can't have the president of the united states address this because he doesn't have the kind of message discipline -- >> got to look people in the eye and say this is better for america, better for america's health, for america's fiscal situation. he's not doing that. >> remember what the president of the united states said. he said he promised this is going to cost less, it's going to cover more people. >> no one will lose coverage. >> no one will lose coverage, the deductibles will be lower, everything will be better. no cuts to medicare or medicaid. he's made all of these promises.

they will all show up in the midterms when republicans run for re-election and make nancy pelosi speaker of the house unless they figure out how to protect themselves, talking about the house republicans now. >> i understand the politics and i think you're absolutely right. i'm really struck. we talked about this throughout the general election that one of the things we were witnessing, we were witnessing every day ordinary working people, white, black, brown, purple, yellow, screaming out loud about how they're catching hell. trump in some ways became a representative figure as well as bernie sanders. and the question that we have to ask ourselves over these hundred-plus days now, what are the policy initiatives that are really going to address the hurt that we are seeing in the rust belt, the hurt we're seeing in the south and the northeast and the west and the midwest. part of the challenge here is to say what we're stomaching, what we're being fed is in some ways

the same standard policies that we've -- >> gosh, i'm almost at the point where i wish that was the case. i think we have a bigger problem. >> mika, if the president and republicans are right and 2017 is the year that obamacare implodes which the cbo is suggesting it's not, but if they are right, if things get worse, than the people that voted for barack obama eight years ago and voted for donald trump last year in wisconsin and michigan and pennsylvania and ohio and west virginia and missouri, they are going to be the ones on the front line who are going to be hurt, whose children are going to be hurt, whose grandparents are going to be hurt, whose mothers are going to be hurt, whose daughters -- those closest to them are going to be hurt. they are not going to be pointing at barack obama and blaming barack obama. they're going -- i know.

they're going to look at their congressmen and they're going to say how did you let that happen to my child. you have had a warning for two years now, and you said yourself three years ago that this was going under, and you republicans ran the house, you ran the senate, you ran the white house, you ran the supreme court. >> complete power. >> -- and now my child cannot get treatment for their disease, and you're telling me to blame barack obama? he hasn't been president for two years but you've been my congressman for six. i hope you enjoyed it. >> and you asked for this responsibility. >> you told me, if i voted for you, you would repeal obamacare and you and donald trump said you would give my child

something better than we even had under obamacare. you promised me. your republican president promised me. i voted for you and i voted for your president. now my child doesn't have health insurance, now my child can't go to the doctor he was going to two years ago. now my child faces an uncertain future. congressman, what's your excuse. >> and you, congressman, never told me what the phrase opt out really meant. >> what's your excuse, congressman? what's your excuse? got to answer that question. good luck. still ahead, two leading voices from the u.s. house, republican congressman tom cole and democratic congressman jim himes join the conversation. we'll be right back with more "morning joe."

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joining us from washington, mark muriel. the urban league is out with its annual state of black america report. let's get to the report. some of the key findings. if full equality with white americans was represented by the figure 100%, right now african-americans have just over 72% equality, just a tiny increase from last year. >> so explain that. >> you all have been talking about health care this morning. those increases, year to year, have been incremental. nonetheless, they represent increases. so, we must resist any effort to

repeal the affordable care act until and unless something better emerges. right now we don't know what's emerging in this discussion or this debate. so while this progress is increme incremental, we are concerned about plans to roll back that progress. >> we have this broken down in categories and the gap is particularly bad when it comes to economics, social justice and education. tell bus that. >> in economics, this gap has been pretty much frozen since the 1960s. that is the differential between african-americans and whites when it comes to economics. the best analogy is that blacks are like a caboose on a train. >> stop right there. you're telling me in the area of economics there has been no progress for black america since the 1960s? >> understand it this way, joe.

it's the gap. black americans have improved, white americans have improved but the differentialial has not changed. >> still 68%? >> higher median incomes for blacks and whites but that differentialial has not changed. in terms of equality we've been frozen, sort of in suspend ed animation when it comes to economics since the 1960s. >> so, mark, in relation to that economics question, how are you tracking the housing crisis? we know what happened over the last -- since 2008. and we know that we are still seeing serious problems here. >> it's been a disastrous ten years. it declined from its high water mark about 50% in 2006 down to almost 40%. so the balance sheets of all americans took a hit during the

recession but for black americans it has taken a big hit and has not come back. we are releasing our plan to really focus on rebuilding home ownership among all americans but particularly among americans of color. >> so, mark, clearly, home ownership is linked to employment and joblessness. and black america is quite high, remains high, consistently high. apple and amazon are experiencing growth. what kind of pressure can you bring on companies like apple and amazon? apple, building a factory in ireland instead of oakland, in california. amazon, building big box physical stores in places like portland, maine, instead of

right in the middle of baltimore. what kind of pressure can you bring upon companies like that, to bring employment to places where people need to be employed and can't find employment? >> you know, i would hope that those leading american companies, which are really on the cutting edge of the 21st century economy, would embrace a philosophy of corporate social responsibility. it's one thing to say we give back with our philanthropy. it's another thing if they would do, as you recommend, to build in roxbury or oakland or on the south or west side of chicago. one thing i am certain is that there are people, young people in all of those communities ready, willing and able to do the work of amazon or do the work of facebook or do the work of these new economy companies. so this is a very big issue. that is the continued outsourcing of jobs.

that's why our mainstream plan is not only about public investment, it's also about incentivizing investment to create the kind of quality jobs we need in this country. >> all right. thank you so much. >> always good to be with you all. >> always great to have you with us, mr. mayor. the state of black america report releases later this morning. mark muriel, thank you so much. stunning last 24 hours of interviews with the president of the united states. his bizarre claims about andrew jackson, the civil war. his confusing statements about what's in the republican health care bill and, perhaps most frightening, saying he would be honored to meet the dictator of north korea the same week he said we may be entering a big, big war with them. we'll be asking presidential historians doris kearns. -goodwin and douglas brinkley if they've ever seen anything like it. plus senator john mccain will be

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at a very young age he was able to assume power. a lot of people, i'm sure, tried to take that power away, whether it was his uncle or anybody else. and he was able to do it. so, obviously, he's a pretty smart cookie. >> the white house says president trump called president erdogan yesterday to congratulate him on the victory. >> i think putin has been a very strong leader for russia.

he has been a lot stronger than our leader. that, i can tell you. >> in case there was any doubt, i wanted to let everybody know we are very much behind president al asissi. >> rodrigo duterte has been welcomed to the white house. >> he said yesterday he would be, quote, honored to meet with the leader of north korea. welcome back to "morning joe." it is tuesday, may 2nd. mark halperin, philip bump, pulitzer prize winning author and presidential historian doris kearns-good win, john meachum and msnbc political analyst robert costa and from bloomberg, margaret talov, whose interview of the president yesterday generate aid ton of new.

>> we appear, mika, to have the 27 yankees of presidential historians here. >> this is amazing. and reporter. >> seriously. batting third, john meachum. cleanup, doris kearns-goodwin. >> crazy. >> i'm sorry? >> this is crazy how great it is. no, i wasn't -- >> okay. happy birthday, by the way. >> thank you. >> mika's 39th birthday. >> i'm 50. he's not okay with that, but okay. >> i'm totally great with it. there's so much i want to show you, doris, and philip and everybody else. president trump still suggesting that he's okay by still standing to his widely refuted claims. >> listen to the whole thing. >> speaking incoherently.

>> talking about the relationship. >> and then just kind of waves it off. take a look. >> did president obama give you any advice that was helpful? that you think, wow, he really -- >> he was very nice to me. after that, we've had some difficulties. so, it doesn't matter. you know, words are less important to me than deeds. and you saw what happened with surveillance and everybody saw what happened with surveillance. >> difficulties how? >> i thought that -- well, you saw what happened with surveillance. and i think that was inappropriate. >> what does that mean, sir? >> you can figure that out yourself. >> well, the reason i ask is you called him sick and bad. >> look, you can figure it out yourself. he was very nice to me with words and when i was with him but after that, there has been no relationship. >> you stand by that claim? >> i don't stand by anything. can you take it however you want. everybody is talking about it. frankly, it should be discussed. i think that is a very big surveillance of our citizens, i think that's a very big topic and it's a topic that should be

number one and we should find out what the hell is going on. >> i just wanted to find out. you're the president of the united states. you said he's sick and bad because -- >> you can take it any way you want. >> but i'm asking you. because you don't want it to be fake news. i want to hear it from president trump. >> you don't have to ask me. >> why not? >> i have my own opinions. >> but i want to know your opinions. you're the president of the united states. >> that's enough. thank you. thank you very much. >> that was nonsensical, didn't understand it. at one point he said i don't stand by anything. >> and then proved it. >> and made a bizarre statement or two about the american civil war and andrew jackson. look at this rambling. >> i mean, had andrew jackson been a little bit later you wouldn't have had the civil war. he was -- he was a very tough person but he had a big heart. and he was -- he was really

angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the civil war and said there's no reason for this. people don't ask that question, but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out? >> doris, there's so much we could talk about there. of course, he's wrong factually, but, you know, people don't ask that question about the civil war? he's always been a bizarre interview. we know that as well as anybody. but the past -- douglas brinkley, who we will get to in a second here, was talking about the president's mental state. have we ever found ourselves in this position? >> i guess as an historian this one got me, that lincoln wasn't strong, that he didn't have a bigger heart than andrew jackson, that somehow lincoln

got us into the civil war and andrew wouldn't have gotten us into the civil war when he died in 1845? there was no civil war in 1845. >> he was angry about the civil war. >> he was angry about the civil war. that's what he said about frederick douglas, like he was still alive, he's doing good things, frederick douglas. the sad thing, even if we can smile at this moment, is that presidents have to learn from history. >> we can't smile. >> i don't know what i'm doing. >> i'm saying though -- >> harry truman would read history. he never went to college but read history. when he was going through a decision about firing mcarthur, he reads about firing mcclellan in lincoln's time. when lincoln is there, he's reading about jefferson. when teddy roosevelt was there, he reads about lincoln and gets advice from lincoln. presidents have to learn from the past. if we don't learn from the past

we're not getting any wiser. we learn from our parent, grandparents and people who lived before us. >> john meachum is going to strip this down. >> poor john. tell us. >> you can obviously correct all the mistakes but i want to go something far more elemental than the facts of birthdays and dates of death and beginning of wars. >> right. >> a president of the united states who says, hey, nobody has ever asked the question, why did we have a civil war -- again, i know of no adult in my 54 years of living that would ever come close to uttering that question. >> you know, it's a projection of the president's fundamental and enveloping narcissism. >> yeah. >> because he believes -- he told me a year and a half ago or so -- a year ago that he thought

he could have done a deal to have averted the war. so, it's like the scene from the tempest where miranda comes out, brave new world that has such people in it and the father says tis new to thee. as doris knows, the presidency itself enhances your fundamental characteristics. it's very hard, once you're there, to change. some people do and that's why we talk about them as great presidents. most people, once they're in the oval office, actually just become more like themselves. and in this case that's on a potentially tragic trajectory. >> robert costa, can you speak to the republicans' frustration about this president, the flip-flops on north korea, going from a major, major war to saying, sure, i would love to meet, be honored to meet with the president of north korea. the flip-flops on health care. his inability to understand

exactly what's going on with health care. his flip flop on nafta. in the morning saying he's going to get out of nafta. shows a map in the afternoon and changes his opinion on nafta. the pace seems to be quickening. he has always been erratic. but is there growing concern on the hill that they're just not going to get things done as long as this president is this erratic? >> joe, as i met with a group of republican lawmakers last night through the course of my reporting, i asked them about foreign policy. there's not only concern, there's a feeling of disorientation. they look at his actions in terms of syria and the strikes there. they thought perhaps president trump moving to a more traditional republican, conservative direction, developing some kind of doctrine on foreign policy. then they hear these statements and think that the president, as he was during the campaign, is still attracted, in spirit, to some of these strong main, totalitarians and dictators and it's raising major concerns

among republicans and democrats on capitol hill about the consequences for u.s. foreign policy. >> for better or worse, no matter what people have thought along the way, we have known this man for a very long time. and we're not seeing the same guy here. >> it's gotten worse. >> oh, my god. >> especially after taking a short break. >> a lot worse. >> and then coming back. this is not funny. i can't even -- >> it's like he lives in the present so that that's the only moment that matters. so whatever he said two weeks ago, this is the moment. but then you never know that that moment is not going to change. >> my mother lives in the moment, too. and i'm not saying that donald trump has dementia, but my mother has dementia. she lives in the moment. she forgets what she said a day ago, a week ago. we can't have presidents that do that. and i'm not saying that he has

dementia. i will leave that to his physician to figure that out. >> something is wrong, and to the point that you can't even have a bigger debate, excuse me, joe, about the issue at hand that he's talking about, because he's nonsensical. that's what republican congressmen and everybody who is backing up here have to keep in mind. as they think about the decisions they're going to make moving forward. are you going to stand by this guy? because he's nowhere. he doesn't stand by anything. and i'm quoting him right now. >> right. >> i stand by nothing. flip flop on north korea. flip flop on nafta. flip flop on health care. flip flop on everything. it's not a day or two, a week, it's hours. there is nobody in the white house that can rein this in at all. >> handing them the 2016 election map. the lesson he has learned the

past two years -- >> can you set that up? >> certainly. that made an impression on me. >> an extraordinary moment as well. >> meeting with the reporters from reuters, having conversation about his presidency. at one point he has a stack of the electoral maps of 2016 and hands them out to the reporters, something along the lines, isn't that beautiful? reinforcing the fact, i won. >> do you have these? have you seen these? >> right. what that reinforces is that he has flip flopping all over the place and never stood by any position. the comment he made about not standing by anything does apply more broadly to his political views. i think he sees that map as sal validation that that's okay. the american people agreed with the way i approached politics. that, to him, reinforces the idea that how he does things is okay. >> that doesn't make any sense. >> of course it makes no sense. that is what happened on a day in november when he lost the

popular vote by 3 million to perhaps the -- >> then forced his press secretary to lie about the crowd size. >> -- worst opponent, political opponent. the polls do impact him, mark halperin. >> low approval rating, historically low for a president. in a tough position right now where you would like to think that a president can have a comeback. if he can't figure out how to solve health care and tax reform in the next couple of weeks, he may see his major legislative efforts halted at the hands of his own party, not trying to work with the other party. then what does he do? >> margaret, here is what the president told but north korea. >> if it would be appropriate for me to meet with him, i would

absolutely -- i would be honored to do it. most political people would never say that. but i'm telling you, under the right circumstances, i would meet with him. >> yep. >> margaret, is there some context we're missing there? >> what happened? >> what do you make of it? >> you know, we got the idea to ask him this question because last week we saw some of that signaling from the state department, from tillerson, the idea that the u.s. may be interested in potentially some direct talks with north korea. and because we knew that president trump, both in private life and as president, puts a lot of value on personal relationships. when i asked him the question, there was like a moment where he could tell he was thinking about it. and then he said what he said. and then he said, we're breaking news. so i think what he said was deliberate. and i think that he knew it would be controversial. of course, the question is why?

was he trying to send a signal inside the u.s.? was he trying to send a signal to north korea? was he trying to send a signal to president xi? the rest of the context that might be useful is that he went on to talk about how he's meeting with mahmoud abbas at the white house. he said you probably don't think that's as big of a deal. of course it's not but he's the leader of the palestinians where the u.s. is involved in talks with the palestinians and the israelis. he recognized it was different but that seems to be the continuum he's thinking of. hey, i meet with a lot of people because i think i can have a personal impact on situations that are difficult to resolve. >> doris kearns-good win right after fdr said a day which will live in infamy, he turned back to the speaker and said we're breaking news. >> i was thinking about what you two were saying about a change

in him. he gave that interview to reuters, saying that his old life was much better than this life, working harder, not having as much fun and you wonder if his confidence has been dimminished, that he is feeling overwhelmed, which might project some of the things he did before into a different thing. this job is overwhelming to anybody, much less -- >> anybody. >> -- somebody who has come in without being prepared, who hasn't had that political experience or military leadership. if he's feeling that sense of being overwhelmed, it's exacerbating the very things you've seen before but on a different level now. >> except there seems to be a problem -- it's just as valuable to know history and to know things. i think to know what you don't know. >> that's the hugest thing, as we would say. the hugest thing. know what you don't know. >> mika, the problem not only with the president but with several people close to him, their attitude always was, everybody that does this is stupid. >> right.

>> we're going to bring a businessman's approach to this and we know how to do this. those congressmen and senators and presidents, they're just dumb. they're the worst negotiators ever. they're the stupidest businesspeople ever. >> yep. >> so if that's your attitude and then you go in and you get bli blindsided by one of the toughest jobs in america that does not require physical labor, the toughest job in america that does not require physical labor, then you are going to be shocked. i'm just wondering if, bob costa, you were still hearing that donald trump is not sleeping much. you know, we heard reports early on he wasn't sleeping much, wanders around the white house. feeling a bit disoriented about where he is. i mean, we have to remember,

this man lived and worked in the same place for about 40 years. now he is in a very big house, a lot of times by himself. >> i have been told he misses his apartment. he has not been back to new york. the challenge, from what i hear from white house officials, is that the president continues to see domestic policy and foreign policy in transactional terms. he does not have a guiding ideology. he can sound populist at times, that's not his guiding compass. he tries to make these deals or send signals to kim jong-un or other countries, he's thinking in transactional terms, leading him to be confronted time and again by people who don't necessarily want to deal in those terms, who have real-world

ideologies and views that may not always be maleable when working with president trump. >> you can't trace it. here is a guy that nobody would have ever predicted. i don't care who thinks he should have known this about trump. you should have -- nobody would have guessed he would have veered as far right as he did on his cabinet selections and then try to make a health care bill with the freedom caucus and say if i can't get that freedom caucus on board, i'm not going to be able to pass my health care bill. and he would burn the first 120 da days in a bill that the freedom caucus does not want to support. >> rather than digging deep and thinking reflectively about how to turn things around, he has done a week's worth of interviews, including the one with margaret, which created news. lots to talk about. did they advance his cause in

any meaningful way? >> i think it's remarkable that he continues to yesterday, for example, say that he was going to make sure that pre-existing conditions were upheld. he continues to seem to have no sense of what is actually on the table in front of his republican caucus on the hill that they want to move forward in terms of health care. he's totally disconnected from it. it's not his legislation, never was his legislation. he has complete ownership of it. he's not really sure -- i find that, in particular, baffling. he already lost this fight. >> bob costa, he let people know the first time through on the health care bill that he was just interested in signing a bill. one of the great shocks of the first 100 days, at least legislativ legislatively, is that he took paul ryan's bill and said okay, this is going to be the vehicle i'm going to ride to overturn obamacare.

when it didn't do any of the thing things that on the campaign he promised he would do. is it just the signing of the bill that he's interested in? >> you're right. there's a political moment. they were all looking for president trump, congressional republicans. let's remember, even if this bill, revised as it is, passes the house, it faces many hurdles in the senate. many privately say, for the most part, it will be a political messaging bill because it faces such daunting odds in the senate and there's a desire to prove to the republican base they can actually do something in washington now that they control all the levers of power. >> but, my gosh, mika -- you may not remember this. doris, you remember being btu'd? in 1993 -- >> oh, yeah. >> bill clinton forced the house members -- do you remember? >> yeah. >> bill clinton forced the house

members. they broke those house members' arms to vote for a btu tax. and they did it. then what happened when that went over to the senate, john? it got stripped out. >> and then the other guys put their careers on the line. >> they killed it. and so they put their careers on the line to vote for the most unpopular tax. they got, quote, btu'd and got swept out of congress. >> right. >> and so the house members really going to jump off a cliff for a bill that's going to die in the senate? >> certainly not, i think, this time. they have a much clearer sense of what's going on in the white house. >> and of history. >> there isn't that power in the white house. and history. hopefully they'll remember, i won't do it again. once, but not twice. >> let's see. bill clinton and barack obama, at the end of their first 100

days, had an average approval rating of 20 points higher than where trump is today. they lost, in the mid term election, an average of 50 seats. so, politicians work on incentives, on behaviorism. that's what the congress, it seems to me, is looking at. >> so, margaret, from the president who says he doesn't stand by anything, list off some of the things that he said he would get -- some of the news that he broke in your interview yesterday. >> it was really astonishing. we weren't sure how much we would get for the second hundred days. he covered a lot of ground, saying he was openi to considering a gas levy tax, to breaking up the big banks and commitment to keep his chief strategist and chief of staff in place, countering rumors that

there's about to be shakeups, as everyone is getting along better. we were in the waterfront on a lot of these issues. two things really stood out to me. one is this idea that whether it's north korea, whether it's the potential to raise taxes and whether it's the breakup of big banks, he does not mind -- in fact, seemed to sort of relish testing the waters on very controversial issues, even within his own party. but the second was this issue that we just covered, touched on a couple of minutes ago about him learning on the job and some of his positions now seeming really different than the campaign rhetoric where he basically says why can't president obama get anything done? but yesterday sort of explained his decision to headache these concessions to democrats along with the republicans on the spending bill as saying, look, democrats are just obstructionists. we couldn't have a government

shutdown. that sounds familiar. that's what the last president felt. >> whoa. >> but a gas tax? breaking up the big banks and, of course, he labeled steve bannon -- which i'm sure steve was happy about -- a respected member of the alt-left. >> margaret talev, thank you very much, we think. >> thank you. >> robert costa, thank you. >> doris kearns-good win. >> senator john mccain will be our guest ahead. plus later today the president are will phone vladimir putin. we'll speak with one of his most outspoken critics. but first republican congressman tom cole. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. hey there, hi, why do people have eyebrows? why do people put milk on cereal? oh, are you reading why people put milk on cereal? why does your tummy go "grumbily, grumbily, grumbily"? why is it all?

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on capitol hill, republican senator tom cole. he has figured out the health care bill, knows exactly what's in it, knows what the final vote is going to be and is going to tell us all right now. >> tom. >> tom? >> actually, i'm working on appropriations first. i would like to fund the government. and, you know, that's a place where we had a big breakthrough. actually, their first real democratic, republican and, frankly, presidential negotiation of the trump era just took place and was successful. we'll go across the floor with bipartisan support. we're struggling with health care, we've got an example in the appropriations process on how to move forward in my view. >> is that a week extension or -- >> no. this will fully fund the government. it's not a cr, not an extension.

it's a full appropriations bill. i'm very pleased. nih will get a $2 billion increase, center for disease control increase and, you know, major military increase that the president fought for and won, some border control money he fought for and won. democrats had some successes and some programs they like and also, you know, kept out a lot of the rioters that trump can deal with himself. >> you said despite the proposed cuts, funding for the national institute of health, institute of health is actually going to go up? >> yeah. it really will. $2 billion. big increase. second year in a row we've been able to do $2 billion increases. >> very, very good thing. >> there were other things that he had heard throughout the past month or so, some pretty crazy suggestions on cuts.

state department, i think i saw there was, what, 36% proposed cut? a lot of the senators said that wasn't going to pass. do you know off the top of your head -- >> it's pretty much level funding. remember, that's for the balance of the fiscal year '17. we're late getting this done. president's proposals are for next year. although we certainly had some in the supplemental for cut this is year. additional defense spending. he got a lot of what he wanted there. and he wanted to get additional money for border security. didn't get money for the wall. to be fair, you couldn't contract in the amount of time left in the year for that anyway. on a good decision on his part, more technology and repair of the structures, barriers that we have there now. good start for the president. it got some big wins and, then again, so did congressional republicans, so did congressional democrats.

>> this is a selfish question. as a professional of princeton -- >> so selfish, congressman. this should not surprise you. go ahead, eddie. >> what about the national en e endowment for the arts? >> it's there. corporation for public broadcasting picked up $10 million for an interconnectivity device that they need to improve their service. again, all these things got through fine. again, we'll start now working on next year. but, frankly, i like the way the negotiation went. and everybody stacked out their position but then they moved toward one another during the course of the investigation, suggesting to me that we're finally moving to a period, perhaps, where we can do things like that on tax reform. >> mark halperine here. gas tax or breaking up the banks, are any of those good

ideas? >> it's hard to say what's a good idea until you see it legislatively. in a period of pretty low gasoline prices, you're from oklahoma, you keep an eye on the price of accrued. if you're ever going to do it, this is probably as good a time as anyone. you can also, you know, couple that with a trigger to say gasoline went above a certain price. in terms of breaking up the banks, it depends what you're talking about. banks that are large enough to cause catastrophe on the economy the big banks have picked up a much larger share of the total banking mark than they had on the eve of the great recession. that tells me that the

regulatory scheme we've devised is not very good because the aim was not to concentrate more power in big banks but that's exactly what dodd/frank did. >> are you concerned about the president's recent flurry of statements? if you missed one or two, north korea, health care, nafta, even his rambling incoherent statement about his relationship with president obama which trailed off with no answer and kind of an awkward -- >> the inconsistencies. >> are you concerned at all about this in any way? >> well, you're always concerned, i think, when you see things that suggest inconsistency in the presidency. on the other hand, i've watched the president in health care negotiation where, honestly, i think he has done very well. and he's actually pushed this thing in the right direction. i've watched him in the appropriations process where, again, i think -- you know, i disagreed with some of the his initial positions.

proved to be very reasonable in the negotiation and set realistic goals from what he wanted to attain. overseas, honestly, i look at the actions in syria. i look what i think have been pretty astute moves with respect to using china against north korea a little bit and making it unmistakably clear to the north koreans that we will act if they do something provocative, like attacking south korea. those things suggest to me that the president is getting his sea legs and doing pretty well. >> but, of course, he said he would be honored to meet with the head of north korea and has -- >> are you sure about that? >> -- and has adopted a progr program -- >> my great offense is anything nice said about andrew jackson. that's the one that concerns me the most. but my great grandfather was forcibly removed out of -- >> i'm more concerned about north korea right now but go ahead, congressman. >> no, i agree.

look, again, you have to look at the actions there. and the actions are crystal clear. if anything, he has been more decisive with north korea, and the administration has, than we've seen in a long, long time. whether that works or not is anybody's guess. there's not much you can do to him. it's a country where the people are starving, regimes are oppressive. at least i think president trump is giving it a good shot. >> congressman tom cole, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> greatly appreciate it as well. we spoke with republican congressman charlie den. today we'll speak with congressman jim himes, who joins us next on "morning joe." liberty mutual stood with us

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i have a feeling that in the next election, you could be swamped with candidates but you're not going to be wasting your time. you'll have plenty of those democrats coming over and you're going to say no, sir. no, thank you. no ma'am. perhaps ma'am. it may be pocahontas.

remember that. >> there is no love loss between president trump and senator elizabeth warren, but now is taking on her own party, accusing barack obama and democrats with being out of touch with working class americans. we're going to ask if she's ready to take the party's reins when she joins us live tomorrow for an interview. and we're back with congressman jim himes. ♪

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questions i hear from people who supported you. they want to know what your impressions are, being president. what's it like? >> first of all this just came out. this was our final printed map. >> that red area right there? >> we're red and hillary is blue. this just came out. the final print. pretty good. >> how does that make you feel? >> very, very honored and proud. and i love the people of this

country. these people are incredible people. i mean, look at that. look at those numbers. >> oh, my god. this is very strange. that was more of president trump's interview on sirius xm. the president handed out copies of that map to reuters' reporters during their interview thursday and suggested to philip rucker of the washington post that he take home an electoral map to his colleagues and run it on the front page of the newspaper. johning us now, congressman jim himes. we've been looking at the potpourri of strange statements and weird zigzags of the president in the past 48 hours with different reporters. i'm just wondering, is there anything you think you can get done with him? >> mika, as you point out it's

like one of those amusement parks you visited, from the whirling teacups to the roller coaster to the funhouse and don't know which way is up because of the unpredictability of the president's statements. he's going to be honored to sit with the north korean leader, going to break up the banks, eliminate nafta. oh, no, we're not eliminating nafta. the budget bill, which is going to pass this week, and is a good bill, points to the way we get things done, losing a fair number of people in both parties but creating the kind of center with republicans and democrats that if the president would go there in at the beginning he would have a shot at getting infrastructure done, maybe tax reform. but, again, he has to sort of stop all this surprising everybody once an hour and remember if he's going to get something done it's going to be by working from the center out rather than starting with his, you know, freedom caucus, most extreme wing. >> he has to stop talking.

>> tough job description for the president, right? >> yeah. and it almost seems like you're saying there are things you might be able to get done, get accomplished but it's despite him or how would you -- what are the -- what are you hearing from democrats and republicans behind the scenes? >> look, it's a great question. i've been appalled by the behavior of this president. and i haven't been shy about saying that. some of his statements, his cozying up to dictators, i've been appall bid that. the fact is -- here is the glimmer of hope. this guy is ideologically completely unmorphed. he basically stuck his finger in the eye of every -- by saying he was willing to cozy up to the north korean leader, break up the big banks. that's a guy willing to negotiate. the problem is that we haven't started that process. >> mike? >> congressman, why haven't you and charlie dent, who is on with

us yesterday, tom cole, who was on with us a few moments ago, why haven't you introduce aid bill to bring back that phrase that seems to have disappeared the last six, seven rebuild the gas tax and rebuild this country? because coast to coast, across constituenci constituencies, it doesn't matter, it's fallen apart? >> all the oxygen in this room has been taken up the last couple of months by the obsession, near religious need to repeal obamacare. i mean, you know, right now as i speak in rooms hyped me, you know, the speaker and the republican whips are doing their best to convince very decent republicans they really need to trash health care in their own districts. very decent people have to explain why they voted for a bill that took 24 million americans, according to cbo, off their health care. as long as we're having that fight, which is, you know, of course, the most divisive of fights around here, it's pretty hard to say, hey, guys, let's start with something to get done

to bring us together rather than pull apart? >> representative himes, i want to ask a question about the politics. democratic party. there's a sense in which you staked out a moderate position, a centrist position, but how do you say to those folks, hundreds of thousands of folks who march for climate change, those folks in the street to convince them that the moderate position isn't just simply business as usual? folks who in some way reject the centristism of the democratic party? >> the way you win in washington, whether you talk about the white house, the house or senate, you win by adding to your coalition. we have to get away from words like reject. i've done a couple of marches and been in rallies and i've been as harsh a critic of this president as anybody else. by the way, i will stand with elizabeth warren and bernie sanders on an awful lot of things they care about. whether it's standing up for people who have been disenfranchised or women's

reproductive rights. i remember what a house majority looks like. it looks like people who think slightly different than you might in connecticut or california, people in ohio, north carolina, virginia. we have to be open in this party to different ways of thinking. to your question here, regardless of where you are in the ideological spectrum, there are some things we have to get done. infrastructure, tax reform would be great. when we can roll around to a consideration about how to improve our health care system, to get those things done, you're going to have to give up some things. you're going to have to make some compromises. and i think, you know, people across the spectrum recognize that. >> congressman, democrats seem to have gotten quite a bit out of the budget deal that was just struck. so much so that nancy pelosi and other democrats have bragged about it. i'm wondering why your party didn't ask for more. why didn't you keep -- given the president didn't want to shut down the government, why didn't you keep asking for more? >> i think we got an awful lot of the things we were hoping for and we kept out things we

thought were a bad idea. there was no money for a ridiculous border wall, planned parenthood funding is preserved, no riders in there that are typically about hard right social policy. you know, money to help the people of puerto rico, a plus up of the national institutes of health. we feel pretty good about this. now, do we feel perfect? of course not, but that is the definition of success. >> congressman, as a fellow connecticut rnlesident, i'm sur you saw the bad news yesterday that the budget debt is going up to $ 5 billion in our state. the situation seems to get worse in hartford. would you consider running for governor? >> joe, please, it's way too early for that. >> i know. i'm not asking if you would today, but would you just generally consider running for governor? the state really needs -- needs a new leader. >> well, the state will have a new leader, as you know, because governor malloy is not running

for another term. i'll tell you this, joe, the state of connecticut needs some pretty tough medicine, no question about it, right? i was just saying compromise looks like a lot of people feeling only partially satisfied. what's been building up in connecticut for the last 30 years and the fact we've been too wired to financial services industries, to defense industries, that's going to take a long time to reverse. and as you know, i'm spending sort of 24/7 on the intelligence investigation down here with -- of russia and possible links to the administration. so, i'm feeling like i've got a reasonably good day job and not necessarily looking to take on another one. >> so, you're saying you're going to run? >> congressman jim himes -- >> just leave him alone. >> how did you get there? >> you're telling me there's a chance. >> let me just ask it this way, because we -- we need to know for the connecticut papers, so are you open to the possibility of running for governor in 2018? >> i'm not thinking about it, joe. honestly, i'm not thinking about it. >> but are you open to it? somebody else is thinking about it. >> stop it.

>> you know, in this business you never say never, but i'm absolutely not thinking about it. >> and that is the headline i wanted. he's running. no i'm joking. are you right, it's going to be a tough job, whoever is going to get it they'll have to look at the fact we have a pension plan that's upside down. >> thank you for being on the show. >> thank you, mika. >> thank you, jim. he said it on tv, he's running for governor. i'm joking, i'm joking! >> he's so nice to come on the show and he's harassing him. >> governor himes. it would be good. i think he would be good. >> kind of need him in washington. >> he all but appealed for funds -- >> he did. himes for governor. >> no bumper sticker. still ahead, donald trump has long praised so-called killers in the business world. but that term takes on a whole new meaning from the oval office. we'll break down the president's recent outreach to some of the world's most heavy-handed rulers. plus, senator john mccain joins the conversation. kevin, meet your father.

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so they should go with us. anywhere? you got that right, kid show thing. three. nothing beats live. so we want to stream all that sweet live stuff. like football. red carpets. and yelling. wait! what are we yelling about, guys? four. we don't just want unlimited data. we want unlimited entertainment. like unlimited hbo. can i stop dying now mark? c'mon man. it's unlimited. last thing. we just want all our stuff... the way we want all our stuff. that's not too much to ask is it? only at&t brings you entertainment on your terms. directv, wireless, internet. it's entertainment your way. this is very ominous looking because of the red button. >> what does that get you? >> it gets you a coke or a pepsi. of time i press that, people -- in fact, i have fun with people. >> at a very young age, he was able to assume power, so obviously he's a pretty smart

cookie. >> if it would be appropriate for me to meet with him, i would absolutely -- i would be honored to do it. >> his point, he went over this in the interview, he assumed power at a young age, when his father passed away and there was a lot of potential threats that could have come his way and he's obviously managed to -- to lead a country forward. >> pre-existing conditions are in the bill. and i mandated. i said, has to be. >> crucial question. it's not going to be left up to the state. everybody gets preexisting -- >> states are also going to have a lot to do with it. >> i'm not going to telt you everything that's in his brief but he's well aware when he speaks with a leader, he gets briefed on a lot about what they're doing, what they've done. that's all part of the brief. >> i mean, had andrew jackson been a little later you wouldn't have had the civil war. people don't ask that question. but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out?

>> just a taste of the absolutely dizzying 48 hours of talk from president trump, even by his standards. he left financial markets rattled, congress blind sided, his own staff baffled and historians scratching their head. douglas brinkley framed it this way, it seems to be among the most bizarre recent 24 hours in american presidential history. it was all just surreal disarray. joe, you were equally perplexed tweeting, though it seems impossible this is getting worse by the day, is the president spinning even more out of control? good morning, everyone. it's tuesday, may 2nd. >> happy birthday, mika. >> i know, yeah, happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> 26 years. >> 50. >> wow! >> 26 years. >> 50. >> we have veteran columnist and

msnbc contributor mike barnicle. >> legendary. >> senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc mark halperin, chair of the african-american studies at princip princeton university and almost as good as me in miming, eddy gloud jr. very proud of you the other day. you're the only one who stood by me with the mime. i'm good at it, right? you can really see that wall? also with us, pulitzer prize winning journalist jon meacham. >> presidential historian doug brinkley said, describe the president's confused mental state. i saw the transcripts from just the rambling, talking about andrew jackson and the civil war. we've seen him try to bluff his way through things before, but you take that and john dickerson, it was really, really

shocking. with dickerson he was mumbling, he was rambling around. jon meacham, we can ask you the easy question about andrew jackson. obviously, he was wrong about andrew jackson and the civil war. by a matter of about 15 years. i want to ask you the more difficult question. do you follow douglas brinkley and your assessment that the president of the united states certainly over the past 48 hours has had a, quote, confused mental state, more so than even before? >> yeah, i think you're right. reading the transcripts is always fascinating because you do get inside the brain and you begin to see how much bluffing does go on. the image ma came to my mind was less about confusion and more about -- felt more like a pin ball machine or an arcade.

he's just the steel ball that hits something, the bells go off, he bounces off and hits something else. that's not the most reassuring image you want in a nuclear age at the highest levels. >> what was the line from the civil war -- nobody has asked this question before. >> why didn't anyone work that one out? >> and he started, nobody has asked this question before, but why did we even have a civil war? my mother's had hdimenta. she would say, why do people ask that question? why did we have a civil war? it's beyond the realm. that is something -- i'm not trying to be anything here but very direct. that's something that a 5-year-old might ask, but that is not anything that any grownup that i have ever been around in my entire life would ever let

pass from their lips because that has been the central question of how did america begin with slavery as our original sin and how did we move past that original sin, in part, through the civil war, mike. i've got a john dickerson clip coming up next that's equally disturbing. >> the question is one of the single most posed questions in the life of this country, in american history. jon meacham just referred to reading the transcripts which is an incredible experience to read them. it's fascinating. i would also add, disturbing. they're very disturbing to read. the employment of language for a president is one of the most vital aspects of president presidency. and if you're a certain age with a certain attention span, and i would measure it maybe at people of the age of over 45, who aren't walking around looking at their phones, you're used to a

president using language to move things, to point things out, emphasize the importance of things. >> strategically. >> and it's very upsetting, kind of depressing to read the transcripts of this particular president as he rambles on, ad libs about things critical to this country. >> no, this is not about donald trump being ignorant. it's not about donald trump not reading books. this is not about donald trump not knowing the issues. we have known that in the past. but, mika, your impression as we were coming back and seeing a flood of all these stories and the transcripts, what was your impression? >> well, i think we talked about this yesterday and i think it's worth bringing up on the show. it's -- it's disturbing. and it's not just what you're talking about the potential

you're bringing up, but i tweeted, stop talking. what's really concerning me is that there is no one, absolutely no one in the white house who can get him to stop talking. there's nobody. everyone says, oh, certain people can get to him and they're the secret weapon. there's no secret weapon. he's blitherring right and left and i can only imagine his staff has their head in their hand. >> he said he would be honored to meet with a dictator who is one of the most heinous tyrants on the face of the earth. they had to flip-flop that. >> he's not listening to anyone. >> he doesn't seem to remember what he said five minutes ago. he doesn't know his own positions on a health care bill he's passing. he seems confused. this was a president of the

united states yesterday with john dickerson. it's baffling. i don't get it. >> did president obama give you any advice that was helpful that you think -- >> well, he was very nice to me but after that we've had some difficulties, so it doesn't matter. you know, words are less important to me than deeds. and you saw what happened with surveillance and everybody saw what happened with surveillance. >> difficulties how? >> well, you saw what happened with surveillance. i thought that was inappropriate. >> what does that mean? >> you can figure it out. >> well, the reason i ask is because you called him sick and bad. >> you can figure it out for yourself. he was very nice to me with words and after that, but since there there has been no relationship. >> you stand by that claim -- >> i don't stand by anything. you can take it the way you want. i think our side's been proven very strongly and everybody's talking about it. frankly, it should be discussed. i think that is a very big surveillance of citizens. i think it's a very big topic

and a topic that should be number one and we should find out what the hell is going on. >> i just wanted to find out, though, you're the president of the united states. you said he was sick and bad because he -- >> you can take it any way you want. >> but i'm asking you because you don't want it to be fake news. i want to hear it from president trump sdm trump. >> you don't have to ask me. >> why not? >> you have your opinions -- >> i want to know your opinions. you're the president of the united states. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> mark? >> i think the thing with north korea is the most serious because by saying he would want -- >> very honored. >> showing respect and honor and meet with him one-on-one, the white house tried to walk that back, but in the context of all these other things he said, that is so unsettling to japan, south korea. mike said it, presidential words matter. speak the speak. over a course of a range of interviews over a week with such imprecision about history and about his position on health

care and then to float the notion of being honored to meet the head of north korea, this is where the imprecision and the way he's behaving has real world impact. senator mccain joins us. russian activist garry kasparov weighs in on the kremlin's campaign. affecting my good credit score. i see you've planted an uncertainty tree. chop that thing down. the clarity you seek... lies within the creditwise app from capital one. creditwise helps you protect your credit. and it's completely free for everyone. it's free for everyone? do hawks use the stars to navigate? i don't know. aw, i thought you did. i don't know either. either way it's free for everyone. cool. what's in your wallet?

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i mean, had andrew jackson been a little later, you wouldn't have had the civil war. he was -- he was a very tough person, but he had a big heart. and he was -- he was really angry that he saw what was happening with regard to the civil war. he said, there's no reason for this. people don't ask that question, but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out?

>> i see what's happening in this country where our so-called allies are just ripping us off left and right, with japan, saudi arabia, kuwait. they're ripping this country off. i can tell you if i ever was in office, which is unlikely because i don't want to be, but if itself, that wouldn't happen. we wouldn't be taken advantage of the way we are. we are a good nation but we're a debtor nation. we pay interest on that money. and i think it's just ridiculous. the country of the united states is being ripped off and it shouldn't happen. >> wow. the white house hopes -- >> i just was saying, there is such a difference, mike. >> in clarity. >> in clarity. in clarity and, you know, perhaps it's exhaustion. perhaps it's the weight of the job. >> anxiety. >> perhaps it's anxiety. perhaps he's exhausted. >> but those are all real conditions. >> maybe he's not sleeping at all. >> maybe it's worse. >> maybe he's having trouble sleeping. we don't know what it is.

but we're not analyzingle anything. >> no diagnosing. we're analyzing, that's for sure. >> we're not diagnosing anything, but there is no doubt that there is something impacting his thought process. perhaps it is exhaustion. >> and impacting the presidency. >> and this country. and somebody needs to get in there and say, especially his foreign policy leaders, say, you have got to stop talking about the philippines. you have to stop talking about north korea. you have to stop talking -- >> who would that be. >> mattis. >> reince priebus? >> mattis. mcmaster. tillerson. somebody that's an adult. >> if they can't -- but they are there, mike barnicle. >> mcmaster is really the one. >> i'm going on a limb and saying they probably are trying and they can't and that's the problem. >> it seems to be, that's a reasonable conclusion because -- you guys have been saying that

about the foreign policy leaders -- >> these are some of the strongest leaders our country has to offer. you don't think they would go in there and say, you have to stop talking, you have to stop tweeting. i want you addition we are going to approve everything you say for the next three days or we're out of here. whatever it takes. >> how does the president go -- >> they can't do it -- >> jon meacham, from talking about a major, major war with north korea to saying the same week, he would be honored to meet the dictator of north korea, a smart cookie, who his white house spokesman said, quote, has moved his country forward. >> well, the hopeful scenario is this is a clever dealmaker who sends conflicting signals in order to keep people off-balance and bring them to the table. the negative and arguably more

likely sce lly scene air yore i really doesn't think words have consequences. he says what is necessary in that moment, like most salesmen, like many people. he wants to take on the coloration of whatever audience he's speaking to. this is a man who began his national political career not on economic nationalism with the old cliff, although he's been talking about that for a long time, but with a lie about barack obama. and confronted again and again with evidence that it was a lie, it took him five years to acknowledge he had been trafficking in something that was not true. because we shouldn't be surprised by this doesn't mean it's not important. but i think that one of the problems we have here, and i think even with secretary mattis and even with the scenario mika is laying out, i think it's very hard historically speaking for presidents to learn fundamental lessons once they reach that

office. they spent a lot of years being told they're brilliant, being told they're wonderful, what a lovely time, mr. president. then the people who do learn are the ones who make history. john kennedy learned from 1961 to '62. people can change. but i wouldn't put a whole lot of money on that in this case. coming up on "morning joe," three weeks after the u.s. struck syria, has anything changed? senator john mccain, who championshiped the strikes, joins us straight ahead. >> i think the important thing that i do is to watch what the president does, not what he says. and a lot of the things that he's done, like the cruise missile strike, are actions i certainly approve of. ♪ (music plays throughout) ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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we've been talking about donald trump's troubling rhetoric and now wilbur ross looks to be getting into the mix here. speaking at a conference in los angeles yesterday, "variety" reports ross recalled the scene at mar-a-lago on april 6th. when president trump ordered the air strike against syrian forces as he hosted the chinese president. the secretary reportedly told the audience, just as dessert was being served, the president explained to mr. xi that he had something he wanted to tell him, which was the launching of 59 missiles into syria.

ross joked, it was in lieu of after-dinner entertainment. after the crowd laughed, ross reportedly said, quote, it didn't cost the president anything to have that entertainment. for some perspective, those 59 tomahawk missiles are estimated to have cost around $89 million and at least seven people were killed in the attack, according to the syrian military. >> from capitol hill, senator john mccain of arizona. great to talk to you. a lot to cover. let's start, though, obviously, with one of the glaring statements the president said yesterday that he would be honored to meet with the dictator of north korea. your reaction to that. >> i don't understand it and i don't think that the president appreciates the fact that when he says things like that, it helps the credibility and

prestige of this really outrageous strong man. the largest golog left on earth is in north korea. we all know about their human rights abuses and others. joe, i've been thinking about this and also about the comments about the president of the philippines, and you and i are old enough to remember being reagan republicans. one thing reagan did was he praised people who stood up against dictatorships. remember when he mentioned nathan transky's incarceration and how it encouraged those who were standing up against the soviet union and how it ricocheted around the gulagh and take down this wall. this is a dramatic departure to the kind of human rights that i admired ronald reagan so much for. i think one of the reasons why

he was the most successful president in history. >> why does there seem to be a trend that this president praises tyrants in north korea, tyrants in russia, autocrats in turk y murderers in the philippines. and what concern are our fellow republicans on the hill voicing at least behind the scenes about this? >> well, i think it's very disturbing. it's disturbing because we are proud republicans and we stand for human rights. the reason the united states of america was called the shining city on the hill. one of the major reasons we ended the cold war, we stood in stark contrast to the soviet union. one of the pillars of america and one of the reasons so many people around the world want to be like us because we do stand for these things. no, i don't want to fight every war and put down every brushg

fire, but i do believe that we have to stand for those fundamental principles so that we can assume a leadership role in the world. otherwise we're just like everybody else. i don't want to be like everybody else. >> i'm going to ask you, senator, to please zoom out. these comments that the president made about dictators from smart cookie to doing a fantastic job, a strong leader, very friendly conversation, received congratulatory call, all from dictators, all from leaders we should be very concerned about. and yet in a rambling conversation with cbs's dickerson over the weekend, he talked about president obama saying the relationship has deteriorated and he brought up wiretapping again. if i can glean what i can understand from the conversation, which was almost incoherent, bigger picture, are you at all concerned about the president's ability to do his

job? >> well, when the president does his job such as the cruise missile strike, such as selecting a national security team that is the strongest i've seen, such as many of the actual actions that he has taken, i have been strongly supportive. and i will continue. his commitment to restoring our military, which is in terrible disarray, terrible state right now. i won't go through all the statistics, including two-thirds of our fighter aircraft are down for lack of parts. so, there are many things the president has done that i strongly support as far as national security. but the statements and comments obviously fly in the face of everything that i've stood for and believed in all of my life. >> mike barnicle? >> very few senators travel the world as much as you do. you speak to people who also travel the world and they come back reporting world leaders and

people of influence in other countries when they hear about these things that our president says, our president does, they basically reply with one word -- it's sad. do you agree with that assessment that appears to be growing around the world among our allies and people who looked to the united states? >> i think it's more confusion than anything else because of the contradictory statements that the president makes. about half the time, i agree with him, because one day it's one comment and then the next day another. consistency has got to be the fundamental pillar of national security policy. and i wish that the president would consider much more carefully his comments, particularly in praise of of a north korean -- he's worse than a dictator. he's a despot.

i've run out of adjectives and add verbs. the guy in philippines has praised extrajudicial killings. 7,000, i've read, have been killed. you can't praise that kind of behavior and not have -- raise concerns around the world. particularly when i would argue that democracy is in greater assault and pressure now when you look at the flow of refugees, when you look at all the strains, the rise of ultranationalist leaders in various countries in europe, like hungary and others, we need the message of freedom, the message of human rights, the message we stand for democracy more than ever before. >> senator, i'm looking on google, american president calling the president of the philippines, quote, a respected voice for reason and moderation. that was ronald reagan about ferdinand marcos early on before the reagan administration turned on him. i'm wondering, to put in

context, having previous presidents, even president reagan who you praised earlier, praising leaders who don't act consistent with our values, what is different than what president trump is doing? >> well, my friend, to compare -- look, ronald reagan was by no means perfect. he made many mistakes. iran contra is probably one of the best examples. but from the beginning he may have made a comment about marcos or something, but from the beginning, ronald reagan, he stood in berlin and said, take down this wall. he said nathan should be free. jackson vanek he supported, which required the exdus and immigration of people from soviet union. you can find a comment or statement that ronald reagan made, my friend, but have no doubt about what his principles were and what he espoused is and what he succeeded in doing. in the words of margaret thatcher, he won the cold war

without firing a shot. it was standing up for democracy and freedom which is one of the main elements. >> all right. senator mccain, what's your advice for your constituents and americans, for world leaders, that are having to keep up over the last 48 hours with a flurry of statements that even presidential historian douglas brinkley said suggested a confused mental state from our president? >> my words, as i recently visit, is presidents grow in office. i still believe this president can grow in office. i think he has surrounded himself with a strong national security team. i supported his cruise missile strike. inc. for the first time we are standing up to russia. we are standing up for the people that are under assault in places like mosul and raqqah and we are doing good things.

and the president's commitment to rebuild this military, which is not happening with with this bill we're about to pass, but his commitment to that i think is very important and i strongly support it. >> senator john mccain, thank you. >> thank you, sir. great honor. >> thank you. joining us now, russian pro-democracy leader, chairman of the human rights foundation, former world chess champion, garry kasparov. he's out with a new book "deep thinking" where machine intelligence ends and human creativity begins. wonderful to have you on the show. thank you. >> i want to follow up with what john mccain told us. the senator said democracy is under greater assault than ever before. do you agree with that? >> i think it's quite funny when i had the book about vladimir putin, everyone talk about deep blue and now i have a book on artificial intelligence, everyone wants to talk about putin. >> terrific. >> i couldn't agree more.

democracy on assault. you look at statistics over last 10 or 11 years it's declining. we could see the rise of dictators and autocrats. of course, vladimir putin, but then we have newcomers, erdogan and duterte and it's quite sad to hear his comments from the white house that i think are legle legit mizing these dictators. what american president says matters. what senator mccain said, is correct. what donald trump is saying now matters. if he says something like the press is enemy of the people, in america you guys are protected by first amendment by american laws but in russia or turkey, it could be a matter of life and death. these dictators are so pleased to hear trump comments about opinions and facts, mixing them.

dictators don't like facts. they like to deal with your opinion, my opinion. >> isn't that what we're dealing with here, someone who maybe thinks that's what he is or -- and i just say this as somebody who has been away. i've been totally news blackout for five days. i came back and i thought, my god, how descent tien tiesed to he says every day, it was shocking how bad it was. >> i'm promoting the book. people keep asking me about future dangers. my response now is it's a long-term threat about artificial intelligence in the world. >> scarcity of intelligence. >> in the oval office. >> also again, i think he has unique talent for destruction. >> it blows up. >> it blows up in terms of the problem. these problems are much bigger outside the united states because he gives a goo reason

for putin and the like to continue their policies. both inside and outside. >> i think i saw you tweet. inside the systems and the united states have actually worked. they have actually checked his worst instincts. >> this is -- two lessons from first 100 days of donald trump. one is he's not going to change. two, american political system is strong enough to survive donald trump. again, it's -- it may have destructive effect worldwide. >> what about the cultural aspect of this. three decades ago senator patrick moynahan gave a famous address called defining deviant down. the fact so many people seem to accept this president's language, his rhetoric, this odd reasoning of -- and understanding of history that we

accept it when we ought not to. >> i think we also have to -- we have to add to what has been said years ago, more than technology and new industry of fake news. people are scared of the flurry of these facts and stories that are just addition that are flooding them. they're looking for one or two opinions they can trust. i think it's addition now trust has replaced truth. donald trump, as a classical autocrat, he's using it. >> how much longer will vladimir putin be running russia and what is the likely scenario when that ends? >> the bad idea, i don't have any idea. good news, he also doesn't have any idea. that's autocrats, they are out of power all of a sudden. i can tell you it's not going to be peaceful because vladimir putin already crossed all the bridges, burned all the bridges.

and it depends very much on the geopolitical situation. what will bring putin down is his failure to pretend he's invincible. now he's meeting with donald trump. he doesn't care what they'll talk about. the very fact if he can sit across the table with donald trump will give him extra credibility in russia to pretend he's still in charge. >> so, timing is everything. and you have had horrible timing with your last two books so let's catch up and talk about the book instead of vladimir putin. and you say addition anything we do today, machines will be able to do better tomorrow and we have no choice. it is coming, right? >> absolutely, absolutely. i t in this book to -- to clean mythology. it's happening. it's our history.

now machines are coming after people with college degrees and political influence but it's no different -- >> instead of farm animals -- >> exactly. we have to realize while many jobs could be lost on the nation, but we still depend on new wave of technology to create sustainable new jobs. >> how does that happen, though? that seems to be the most -- >> we're sort of stuck. >> -- biggest question facing civilization? >> i think it's 60, 70 years ago, maybe 100 years ago, people will be scared to enter an elevator without an operator. elevator could be something from science fiction. tell people the autopilot in the plane is not working. i don't think they'll board the plane. maybe in 20, 25 years our kids will ask, have you ever driven a car? it's crazy we have driverless cars. >> if we have driverless cars and all the automation, again, that's just -- those are more

unemployed jobs. >> look, every break in technology breaks jobs then creates jobs. it's a process. we have to realize the jobs our kids will be looking for they don't impis today. many jobs today, like in 3-d printing, social media, they didn't exist before. >> speaking of our kids, artificial intelligence, people are afraid of it. they're afraid of the phrase. they're afraid of what might happen to their future. but our children, it seems to me -- do you agree, do you think that the american culture, the way it's progressed so rapidly, that our children are not as hungry for education, ambitious a -- if you go to high schools today, vietnamese kids exceed english-speaking kids. immigrant kids are hungry for education more so than our own

spoiled kids. >> let's not blame our kids. let's look at the other generation. sorry. last time americans walk on moon 45 years ago. you could see the trend that baby beermz, that the first generation of the human race had never faced real threat of extermination. they want to use risk perform risk production is a motto for our business. i think what will happen, it will push us into areas, like space exploration, ocean exploration, and i think our kids will have to revive the american spirit. >> desire. >> the desire for new frontiers. >> but they're perfect children. the book is "deep thinking: where machine intelligence ends and human creativity begins." they are perfect. garry kasparov, thank you very much. >> thank you so much. it's great having you here. up next we'll bring in historian douglas brinkley who called the last 24 hours among the most bizarre in american presidential history.

plus, jfk at 100 a century after kennedy's birth. how do his ideals hold up today? brinkley with steven kennedy smith for jfk's vision for america. he joins us as well. stay with me, mr. parker. when a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. stay with me, mr. parker. the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time... stay with me, mr. parker. ...saving time when it matters most. stay with me, mrs. parker. that's the power of and. gives you a reason to slow down and pull up a seat to the table. that's why she takes the time to season her turkey to perfection, and make stuffing from scratch. so that you can spend time on what really matters.

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it's... sfx: (balloon squeals) hahahaha, i had a 2nd balloon goodbye! oof, that milk in your coffee was messing with you, wasn't it? yeah. happens to more people than you think. try lactaid, it's real milk, without that annoying lactose. mmm. good right? yeah. lactaid. it's the milk that doesn't mess with you. joining us now rice university history professor and presidential historian douglas

brinkley. we've been quoting you all morning. also with us board member of the john f. kennedy library and lecturer at the sloan school of management at m.i.t. steven kennedy smith. very good to have you both on. their book "jfk a vision for america" is out today. it compiles president john f. kennedy's greatest speeches, alongside essays by america's foremost historians and writers, coming our 35th president. >> douglas, we'll get to that in a minute. >> thank you. >> thank you for being with us. with gary, we have business first. >> all right. >> like the president before us you said yesterday, about the same time i was tweeting that things were getting worse by the day. >> yeah. >> you said it was one of the most bizarre 24 hours in american presidential history. and talked about its confused mental state. >> i can't believe the media rollout of donald trump over the last 24 hours, the confusion about andrew jackson and getting people -- giving a nonhistory

lesson of -- it was idiotic what he said about jackson, but more to the point, that could be another trump misstatement, what he -- the way he's praising the north korean dictator right now, it's newsating to me when you know what that man does to human live, the schedule muching of the human rights policy since fdr, willy-nilly praising the strock man of the philippines, on and on and he seems to be unhinged in a way that's -- i'm starting to find it a little bit frightening. i've had for a while but over the weekend i just had enough. >> we see a difference. >> we do. i mean we've known the man 12 years and we've seen, obviously, over the past year a difference but it seems to be the pace is quickening. john meacham said just because you're not surprised by it doesn't mean it's not serious and doesn't mean the pace isn't quickening. >> i don't think he goes and works out or gets the mental

clarity you need to be a president. >> i don't think he sleeps. >> an insomniac that's rolling and saying whatever comes to his mind and nobody is putting the proper brakes on him. >> don't presidents have like -- i'm thinking of a certain president i know might have been suffering from age issues in his second term. and i think his people really helped the presidency continue at times when he might have been failing himself a little bit. and -- >> but -- >> it was attainable. >> ronald reagan. george shultz was such a clear mind and reagan had enough to know to talk to him on foreign policy and don't -- reagan never spun out of control like this in his entire president. >> i let's talk about -- >> he was there to do that. >> jfk, toward a more perfect union, talk about this beautiful book and the collection of essays and speeches.

>> sure. thanks for having me. so we wanted to celebrate president kennedy's 100th anniversary by asking leading global figures to comment on his ideas. so i asked six of our nation's greatest historians, two secretaries of state, john kerry and henry kissinger, john mccain, who was on shows, elizabeth warren, john lewis, we have some of our nation's greatest artists, colin mccann, don dililo, robert redford, conan o'brien wrote about his sense of humor and wanted to revitalize and remind people of president kennedy's vision of america as a great civilization, not only a powerful nation but great civilization. >> douglas, part of our great concern day in and day out, is what type of message this president is sending the world with jfk, you, of course, had the opposite. you had a goodwill warrior who sent a message across the world about what the united states -- >> absolutely. no question, joe.

and keep in mind, in jfk's first 100 days, everybody says that he had the bay of pigs, but he admitted to his mistake. at his 100-day mark he had an 83% approval rating and created the peace corps and created the alliance for progress already, he was trying to find ways to heal the world. doesn't mean there weren't working mistakes but may 25th, 1961, that soon into his presidency, he said 1960 we were kind of divided nixon or me and pulled the country together going to congress saying we're going to put a man to the moon by the end of the decade and started working to do it and, of course, in the book, walter isaacson wrote about the moonshot and his rice university speech where he galvanized the country and we get things like gps and medical miracles and on and on and on. >> mike, this shot, look at this shot, from his speech at berlin. >> would either or both of you agree with the thought that john

f. kennedy who would have been 100 years old, may 29th, has been glorified and deified post tu mustily, a man of tremendous talent and tremendous flaw, none of which really became public until later, but he was a president who had the one element presidents must have among many elements, a man of history who understood history and understood the presidency, and thus made a larger mark than people thought he would. >> can i take this? >> go. >> david mccullough wrote an essay about jfk as historian, president kennedy was a member of the american historical society. he actually wrote a very good review of john adams' papers, won the pulitzer prize for his book "profiles and courage" and believed knowledge of history was important to decision

making. so i think among our presidents he and probably woodrow wilson are the most knowledgeable presidents about history and it certainly influenced the way he thought about and made decisions. >> jfk was a writer after the pt 109 phenomenon, we forget sometimes he went and covered potsdam and he covered the u.n. founding in san francisco, and so he had a journalism background. kennedy actually admired the first amendment in journalists so much that he became the master of the press. he kind of created the modern white house press, you know, corps interaction and he was remarkable at it. he's our first television president and boy, could he communicate with people. >> it's amazing. >> a vision for america. >> it's amazing. >> thank you, guys, so much. >> let the record show we asked mika brzezinski to be in it. >> oh. >> you couldn't make it. >> of course. >> my first choice. >> thank you. >> all right. >> that's fantastic.

>> thank you. >> thank you, guys so much. >> thank you for having us. >> speaking of history, happy birthday, mika. bring it on in. mika's -- >> oh, my gosh. >> 39th birthday. >> my 50th. i'm 50. >>. ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday to you ♪ happy birthday dear mika ♪ happy birthday to you >> oh, my gosh. i love it. thank you, thank you, lewis. you're not in a bear outfit. the greatest cake ever. >> happy birthday. >> thank you. >> look, that's donna, gina and nugget. all right. so. >> that does it for me. >> thank you, mike. >> i think they're from bill karins. >> thank you, guys, so much. >> oh. >> i enjoy it. thank you. i love being 50. i really do. >> do you? >> all right.

good. >> it's kind of fun. >> i'm looking forward to getting there in a couple years. so is barnicle. >> twice. >> tell us what it's like tomorrow. >> the best time of my life. >> i will. >> we have 30 seconds, sum it up. >> yeah. >> not the birthday. >> president trump. >> but the last 48 hours. >> well, i mean the summation is contained in this book. i mean, the presidents need to know history. presidents need to know that words matter. that the use of language moves people and nations. it affects more than just emotion. it affects public policy. and we are lacking that right now in the oval office with the current occupant. >> all right. >> well said. >> thank you. tomorrow on "morning joe," senator elizabeth warren will be our guest and that does it for us this morning. stephan stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. >> happy birthday, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. much to cover, it is down to the wire. the health care vote still too close to call, as some

republicans thought to be yeses have switched to no. >> i think it's going to be approved. it could be soon, but it could be not so soon. >> strange honor, president trump speaking with vladimir putin on the phone today as he comes under fire for saying this about kim jong-un. >> if it would be appropriate for me to meet with him, i would absolutely. i would be honored to do it. >> plus, brace for impact. another airline brawl as united's ceo testifies before congress this hour, expecting tough questions on how they'll make sure this never happens again. we're going to begin this morning with house republicans, they are cautiously optimistic on the verge of passing a bill to replace obamacare, but get your head around this one. they may have just three days in total to do it and by our count they've got less votes now than they did on friday. i have