kids going forward. >> hillary clinton, thank you very much. >> thank you very much. [ applause ] thank you. thank you all. thank you! welcome to the top of the 2:00 hour. i am katy tur. you've just been watching hillary clinton make quite a bit of news there with christiane am pour at that panel. she was asked about the election. very obviously. and whether or not she thought she was a victim of sexism and misogyny. she said i think it played a role. also said that it was unprecedented the interference from russia. she believes that played a role as well. and james comey, the fbi director, and his letter to congress in october that said that they were looking into the clinton e-mails once again. she also brought up vladimir putin as well and why vladimir

putin has such dislike of her. joining me now to talk about that appearance is jonathan allen, as well as amy parnes, co-author s of the "new york times" best seller, "shattered." amy, what do you make of her assessment of how the election went? >> well, it's something she has said earlier that russia and comey actually played a part. i think her campaign officials have also said the media played a huge role. now she's dipping into misogyny and i think that was a part, too. but as john and i have laid out in our book, it was so much more than that. she talked a little bit about message and how her message could have been better. she actually admitted that it wasn't a perfect campaign and that she does take responsibility because she is the candidate. these are things that we laid out in great detail in our book and things that when you lose by under 80,000 votes, all these things matter. >> the clinton team pushed back

pretty hard on your book and said that a lot of the controversy in it, a lot of the distrust, the in-fighting just wasn't true. do you think the admission that the campaign wasn't perfect is a tacit admission that at least some of the book was in fact true? >> well, certainly we stand by our reporting. we believe that the book is true. and, yeah, i think there wasn't an admission there by -- an acknowledgement by secretary clinton that she could have run a better campaign. i don't think anybody that works for her would seriously debate whether they could have done certain things better. i thought this was an interesting moment for hillary clinton, by the way. this is an issue that she's talking about, women insecurity, that she's been talking about for a long time. activism on this is something she has a lot of credibility on, everything from microfinance to conflict resolution, things that she's been trying to elevate women so that the world can be a safer place. ihought this was a really interesting event for her to

sort of come bk out io the public on it. >> and amy, she is making a few more appearances lately. she's not going into the wild or staying in the woods, as she said. what do you make of her being so open and being so available lately with donald trump in the white house? >> i think she actively wants to be part of this resistance. she said as much today. i think she wants to actually also champion issues that she was doing before. she wants to kind of remain in the political spotlight a bit but also champion women's issues and girls' issues. that's what i think you were hearing earlier today, that she's kinds of going back to that. i think that she can be a huge voice for that and an advocate for that. but i think she does want to play a huge role in what is coming. the democratic party is trying to find its face right now, they're doing a bit of soul searching. i think you are see something secretary clinton help out in this respect.

>> is she the default leader of the democratic party right now since there isn't a one person? is it still barack obama, jonathan? does she help the democratic party right now or does her continued visibility just keep the democratic party in 2016? >> i don't think there really is a leader of the democratic party right now. so it is a soul searching moment for democrats. think she is a leader of the democratic party. barack obama is. bill clinton is. bernie sanders is. elizabeth warr eren is. there are a lot of them right now and i think over the course of the next few years we'll see somebody or maybe a couple of somebodies emerge. one other thing to note, just watching this appearance, looked like secretary clinton really felt somewhat liberated. it is probably the first time i've seen her since the election talk at such length. there was -- i think you could watch her as she was talking about the election and see some of the real feeling there about what had gone on and engaging in some of these issues. again, she looked looser and

more liberated than i've seen her in a long time. >> she did definitely look loos. amy, she's also weigh being in on the issues of the day, north korea being one of the issues, calling it a "wicked plroblem, and that we can't place pressure alone. does she want to try and have influence on current events, on foreign policy? >> i think so, a bit. and she has a lot to offer actually. if you listen to her remarks, she's talking about diplomacy, something she really believed in when she was secretary of state, that she didn't just believe boots on the ground was the ultimate solution. and she believed in actually sending diplomats to dangerous places. so i think -- but she actually was really interesting to hear her talk about secretary mattis a little bit and how she feels like he can kind of steer the administration in the right direction. and so she did kind of give a nod to a well -- she said that things had to be like better thought out. i think that's sort of where she's going.

so she is trying to advise the administration in her own way. >> for those of us who might have just joined the program, including myself, let's go back and take a moment to look at what hillary clinton said specifically about the election. >> it wasn't a perfect campaign. there is no such thing. but i was on the way to winning until a combination of jim comey's letter on october 28th, and russian wikileaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me but got scared off. as nate silver, who doesn't work for me. he is an independent analyst but one considered to be very reliable, you know, has concluded if the election had been on october 27th, i'd be your president. and it wasn't. it was on october 28th and there was just a lot of funny business going on around that. and ask yourself this. within an hour or two of the

hollywohol "hollywood access" tape being made plithe russian hack of john mpodestpodesta's e-mails h leaks. you can't make this stuff up. did we make mistakes? oh, my gosh, yes. you'll read my confession and my request for absolution. but the reason why i believe we lost were the intervening events in the last ten days. >> did i make mistakes? of course i did. she seems so much looser than she did during the campaign. why did we not see more of that hillary clinton, the one that could be disparaging in an off-the-cuff sort of way? >> i think that's what everyone's wondering. john and i have done two books

on her now, and i think everyone says that she's this gregarious, hilarious woman behind the curtain and she has a problem kind of getting a little loosened up in front of the public eye. and so i think this is her i think stepping away from politics a little bit. i do think she feels a little liberated. i do think that when she is not political, people like her better and i think she knows that. so i think all of this is actually -- it's helpful to her and it will be helpful to whatever she champions going forward. >> what was her biggest impediment? what was the biggest road block for her from being this person on the campaign, from your reporting, amy? >> i think it was a combination of things. i think the e-mail controversy loomed over her campaign an she couldn't get her message across. and also people didt know what that message was specifically. donald trump's message was simple and people knew where he stood on the wall and building a wall and on trade issues. but i don't think that she could articulate exactly why she was running for president and why

she wasn't just the inevitable candidate. >> jonathan, as we were talking about a moment ago before we played that sound, she is weighing in on the current events of the day, north korea being one of them. donald trump is being called -- at least what he is doing, not so much with what he is saying, but more of a traditional hawkish republican when they point to actions like the syria strikes. had hillary clinton won, what would the reaction have been to syria if she was in power? >> you know, i'm not sure that what we've seen so far would have been all that different, katy. hillary clinton is fairly hawkish for a democrat, as she said in that interview with christia christiane amanpour a little bit earlier. she supported the strikes in syria. obviously every president would deal with things slightly differently than a previous one or the next one or an

alternative universe one. but i think she would also be somebody who was trying to take a tough stand with some of the leaders. what i noticed in this interview that was fascinating, while she's tweaking donald trump a little bit, she also seems to be trying to provide some gua guardrails and trying to show where heou go that would be helpful for him in executing foreign policy. and i think something that donald trump may want to listen to a little bit and certainly something that suggests that she really cares about how these issues turn out. >> couple days ago donald trump was asked about russia. he was asked by cbs about wiretapping as well. but when he was asked about russia and hacking, he again said it wasn't definitive that it was russia that did the hacking into the dnc, that it could have been china which is reminiscent what of said during the second debate, it could be a 400-pound guy, even, in his mother's basement, i believe is what he said. hillary clinton seems pretty sure that russia hacking into

the election affected her prospects. talk to me about why she believes so strongly that vladimir putin was -- is no fan of hillary clinton's and vladimir putin would want to actively work against her? amy? >> i think she has quite a history with russia. she went to russia as secretary of state. she tried to reset. there was a little bit of a problem with that reset button that was given by her to lavrov, one of the senior leaders there. so i think that, you know, she always has felt that the russians -- that there is a tension that they don't really like her. and i think all along she's kind of made the case that she was on the road to victory, as she said today in great detail, and she believed she was and her people believed she was. their polling told them that they were going to win. and so -- and he kind of veered

her off course. and i think she definitely sees that and the combination with comey as the reason she lost. >> amy parnes, jonathan allen, thank you, guys, for sticking around and having a wide-ranging discussion with me on hillary clinton and her re-emergence as a political/nonpolitical figure. also, congratulations on the book. meanwhile, we are watching the white house briefing right now. that's mick mulvaney, being grilled right now that president trump sent out earlier saying that, "it would be good to shut down the government." we'll go live to washington next. this is your new house. and a perfectly inconspicuous suv. you must become invisible. [hero] i'll take my chances.

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welcome back. the white house briefing is currently under way. sean spicer once again has a spice, this time office of budget and management mick mulvaney. >> all of us who follow it very closely, you in this room, know example of ronald reagan from the 1980s when he did the am in esty in exchange for the southern wall, gave the amnesty first and never got the wall. a lot of folks, myself included, say fool me once, shame on you. until we secure the southern border, we don't think it is productive to have a larger conversation about immigration. >> let me finish. i was talking. >> they were the ones trying to interrupt you. >> but they're not.

the conversation has been basically focused just on southern wall and the other piece is just not there and the conversation from the white house. no one is dealing with the bigger issue, the main -- that's the major piece versus this expensive wall. and that's what i'm wondering, why is there not talk about that and the money to accompany the bigger piece of immigration reform? >> i'll answer it the same way but a different way. i think that the administration needs to have credibility on this before we start talking about immigration with anybody. no o will take us seriously on immigration reform until we have satiied them that we have secured the southern border. people in my party say i with a'nt to talk about immigration reform, but you have to secure the southern border first. >> one more on aca. i'm sorry. i have to get it when i can get it. on aca -- sir, on aca, is it more about the numbers or about the issue when it comes to these

possible waivers for states when it comes to the issues of substance abuse, taking the substance abuse xoechbt out of the component out of the aca. many of the candidates, including this current president, ran on the issue of fixing the opioid addiction, heroin addiction. now you have this piece, possibly, that states can take the substance abuse prevention or programs out of aca. what are the numbers on that? because how do you justify that when the republicans candidates, and democrats, ran on this? >> i don't know what numbers you are speaking of. i will speak to the philosophy which is that we really do believe the states will do it better than we will. you've seen this commitment that the administration's already had to opioid abuse. i think there may be money for it in this funding bill that we approve of. we're committed to that. but i also think we recognize the reality that the state's are probably more nimble and well

attuned to their own local populations to do it. i was in the state legislature in south carolina. i would have loved on very many different levels from opioid abuse to medicaid to simply have the federal government write us a check and say here, south carolina, go help these folks because we would have done a better job. while i don't have the numbers behind it, that's the philosophy of these waivers. the federal one-size-fits-all might not be the solution. >> you mentioned earlier that president trump was upset by how the democrats portrayed the deal. >> yeah. >> is it right to shut down the government because of how something was portrayed instead of what was -- >> which is why -- if that was the case we'd be vetoing this bill now. i think what he's foreshadowing is, look, this place has to changed. the way we run the town has to be fixed. we can't simply muddle along using the same models that the previous administration has used. okay? this is a changed agent of

president. if it's going to take a shutdown -- again, that's several months. >> quick follow-up on this notion of a "good" shutdown. wouldn't most americans agree that shutdowns are bad? you shouldn't shut down the government? further to that point, it seems as if you may have answered your own question this week on the question of government shutdown. a compromise. republicans and democrats are getting together and passing something, both sides are not getting everything that they want. isn't that what the american people want? they want their government to work and pass budgets that can be a compromise, both sides can agree on? how could a shutdown be good? >> that's exactly what i think they want and that's exactly what i think they have given to them with this agreement. my point to you in response to a couple different questions was that the president wants to see washington better, get better, get fixed, change the way it does business. >> is this better?

>> it absolutely is. which is why it is so frustrating to have democrats go out and say we won and they lost. i can't imagine ronald reagan and tip o'neill having that discussion at the end of a negotiation. last question. yes, ma'am. >> i wanted to ask you about republicans. i know that you're talking about on the senate side, you need democrats. but on the house side there have been budget bills that simply can't get enough republican support to pass on their own. do you think that it is possible to do a republican budget bill with republican votes alone? >> i do. because i voted for one myself. there's actually been a lot more -- >> a actual appropriations bill? >> many appropriations bill that have passed with just republican support than people realize. the reas you don't hear about them is they die because the senate is incapable of passing a bill that has any chance of passing in the house because they have to use the 60-vote flesh hole which is where i started the conversation.

no, i think you are selling the republicans short, selling the republican leadership and rank and file membership. let them speak their mind and voices be heard in the next appropriations process, which, by the way, starts today. put '17 to an end but the discussion about '18 funding begins right now and we very much want to see the ordinary appropriations process function. anything we can do at the white house to encourage that to happen we will do it. and -- because we do not want to be here again. we don't haven't to be having a discussion about a shutdown. one thing you asked about changing washington, why would you have a discussion of a shutdown this september? if the appropriations process is still not working by september, that's a bad thing for the country. it is a bad thing for the congress, by the way. >> why is the president threatening one? >> one of the things that we like -- okay -- as members of the government -- not talking about members of the administration -- members of the government, the proper functioning of the appropriations process is critical to the proper constitutional function of the

government. the house and senate are supposed to use the power of the purse and when they don't do appropriations bills their constituents' voices who are also our constituents' voices are not heard. we hope very much that comes back as part of the process. we're very pleased with the deal today. if you have any follow-up questions, you can always call mr. zartagi. >> will you guys just e-mail where that wall is from exactly so we can identify location? >> hey, sean! >> sean! >> sean! >> not taking any questions today at the white house press briefing. you could hear a very dejected white house press corps hoping to get some questions in. after all, there is a lot of things that folks want to ask donald trump. tons of things, in fact. not just on why he thought a government shutdown might be good, but you could see the, mick mulvaney saying that -- trying very much to defend the president's tweet that a government shutdown would be good in order to teach washington a lesson.

mulvaney saying that washington needs to learn that the status quo is not okay and that they need to do things differently and a shutdown would accepted that message. they're also very angry that the democrats seem to be taking credit for this budget bill. saying the democrats got more of what they wanted than the republican wanted, and specifically what donald trump wanted. yes, there was an increase in defense spending. not quite as much as donald trump had wanted. there was no money given to an increase in i.c.e. agents. there is still funding for planned parenthood. there is still funding for subsidies for the poor, and obamacare. republicans had a hard time coming up with exactly what they wanted in the bill. they needed bipartisan support to make sure it will get voted on and passed. we now have peter alexander who was in that briefing. no sean spicer but talk to me about mick mulvaney and whether

or not he was able to convey the message that the republicans are in good shape and that donald trump is going to get that border wall? >> to punctuate the conclusion of that briefing, sean spicer left as well, the press secretary. obviously a lot of questions that we the media and a lot of americans wanted answered about the status of the health care bill, also a phone call with vladimir putin that was scheduled to start a couple hours ago. i was told by one of the president's advisors that sean spicer would not be coming out today. they asked us to close the door behind us. that's how that just ended a moe moment ago. more broadly to what we heard from mick mulvaney today, he acknowledged that the president's remarks were expressing the frustration that he's feeling saying the democrats spiked the football. it is clear this president has been very from us tated he doesn't believe he's getting the credit he thinks he deserved for this spending bill. that's why they spent the last

course of the hour putting up clips of those portions of the wall that are already being constructed even as this new spending bill doesn't really direct any money to the construction of the wall but it does direct additional money to the military, to defense, also to border security more broadly, points that he tried to make today. as we heard from them a short time ago, they said the democrats are trying to claim victory but it was the president himself who earlier in the rose garden today said this week or republican team had its own victory under the radar. as part of that frustration, earlier today we heard from the president, through twitter, basically saying that what we might need is a "good shutdown" to clean up this mess in washington. mick mulvaney defended that idea of a "good shutdown" saying it is not their desire, but saying a "good shutdown" would be one that cleans up and helps fix washington. >> peter, where are those sections of the wall behind him?

do we know? >> good question. we asked. mick mulvaney did not know as he was walking out. you ma i have heard me, i peppered him with a couple more questions and asked if they would get back to us on details of that wall. this is not clear if it is new construction of the wall. it appears this is just the reconstruction of existing wall that exists in this country right now. suffice to say as we heard from the homeland security secretary earlier in the day, he said what's happening right now with congress in terms of this compromise is delaying construction of the wall which is a contradiction we heard from the white house yesterday saying this compromise would have no impact on construction of the wall. you. >> peter, i'm just confuses, i'm sorry. what is the messaging of the white house is this that they're getting a wall or stonewalling? >> messaging has been a challenge pore this white house at times. i think it is very clear that they have tried to be on one page of the course of this day, mick mulvaney holding a series of briefingins the last 24 hour.

they are getting more money for the military, for border security and the wall will go up. as he said multiple times today, "this wall will be built." their focus now is on the next spending bill. that fight is in september. they are hopeful, they say optimistic, that they will get money that they have been demanding for the wall then. >> september 30th when the funding for the government runs out. peter, let's take a listen to a moment of mick mulvaney taking aim at democrats, firing at them for taking credit for this budget bill. >> we got a lot to do between now and september. i don't anticipate a shutdown in september, but if negotiations -- if the democrats aren't going to behave any better than they have the last couple of days, it may be inevitable. >> eli, if you're there with us from the "wall street journal," the president talking about how it would be good to shut down the government. don't often hear presidents say that. >> no. but this is president donald trump. i mean this is a person who sort of reflexively reacts to even

the smallest perceived slights. i don't know what it was that got him upsets, was it democrats spike beiing the football, or somebody from media like rush limbaugh, that he felt compelled to react to and then as a result we're all sitting here today talking about shutdowns even though folks on capitol hill are scrambling to do something on health care. we're talking about the government shutdown and the white house's failures to get a win for their base in the omnibus bill, which had he not reacted to this would have been a much smaller thing. now talking about a president who sheeeems to want to shut do the government and mulvaney saying this is just about leverage. i think what the white house is learning is they don't just run this town all by themselves. there is a co-equal branch on the other side of the hill. the democrats and republicans

who negotiated this together without the white house don't really care that much about funding trump's border wall. for a lot of republicans there are a lot of other budget priorities like increasing defense spending given what's going on in the pacific, on the korean peninsula, problems with russia. this is not a spending priority for too many folks in congress. i thk the presint would like to think that he can just rev up his base, say this wall is being built and there will be a lot of pressure brought to bear on republican members of congress. i just don't flow that that's going to actually work for him in the end just because acting this way sort of worked for him politically throughout the campaign. >> we also have ashley parker of the "washington post." i just asked peter alexander a moment ago what the messaging is from this white house. there seems to be a lot of cricks. take health care, for instance. yesterday we were hearing from a number of people, senior officials at the white house, that they had the votes to pass this new version of health care. we also heard donald trump the other day say that pre-existing were absolutely mandated in this health care bill which flies in the face a bit as to what exactly is actually in this

health care bill. now our nbc news reporting is, i believe we're going on 20 republicans -- around that number -- 21, excuse me -- who say that they're not going to be voting for this health care bill. 22 is the magic number. it doesn't look good for them. what's the deal? do they not talk to the house about whip counts or are they just projecting confidence no matter what? >> yeah. they think the good rule is when you have the votes you take the vote. and any don't clearly have the vote right now. it is one thing that hill aides, house leadership aides, republicans in general, are deeply frustrated about, which is that the white house will come out, project confidence, say they have the votes, they'll give the specific day as to when this vote is taking place, they'll make claims as the president did that aren't quite true about what's actually in the health care bill or what it will do. and while i think it is sort of the white house projecting

confidence, being a little combative trying to get a win. you asked about the messaging. i think the messaging is they want to win. it is fraly complicating things when it comes to actually getting that win that they so desire. >> we talk about how they have this antagonistic relationship with the media. umt m ultimately aren't they setting themselves up by coming in, not knowing the cts, not knowing where whip counts stand, by not knowing what their president is going to be tweeting on a daily basis? e eli? >> yeah, the unpredictability is difficult for a lot of folks on the hill, know a lot of them are saying this is the new normal and we have to learn to live with it. but putting out a day, saying there is going to be a vote on wednesday when they don't have the votes right now to vote tomorrow, is as one aide put it, just sort of adding to a lot of unnecessary pressure, raising expectations unnecessarily, and making their jobs that much harder ultimately when if they can't deliver on that vote on

wednesday or on a vote at all this week, if they have to pull this new version of the bill because they can't cobble together enough yeses to get to 216, that is a problem and the more political capital they extend and the more statements that you have from the president tweeting in an interview saying, oh, we're going to get a vote, don't even worry about it, it is going to be easy, it is going to be great, ultimately there is no amount of window dressing that can cover it up when that is not the case. then you just have cable news playing back all those quotes saying it is going to be great, it is going to happen. so, yes, they are setting themselves up for are failure, but this will not be the first time if that's the way it plays out that this president said something, doesn't turn out to be the case. thus far he's paid maybe less of a political price for that sort of thing than your prototypical politician because he is still not perceived to be your run of the mill politician. >> just a reminder, nbc news whip count stands at 21 republicans firmly against this health care vote, 19 -- i'm looking over at our monitor -- 19 are still undecided.

if that number goes to 22, then this bill is not going to pass. ashley parker of the "washington post," always lovely to see you. eli stokles of the "wall street journal," you as well. appreciate your time, guys. breaking news out of south carolina. we just learned that officer michael slater has entered a me in the 2015 shooting death of walter scott. we'll go live to nbc's gabe gutierrez who is outside of the courthouse next. there's nothing more important to methan my . so when i need to book a hoteloom, i want somne that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation, in case i decide to go from kid-friendly to kid-free. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah

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we're following breaking news unfolding right now out of south carolina where officer michael slager has just entered a guilty me in the 2015 shooting death of walter scott. that news coming just moments ago from the federal courthouse in charleston. that's where we find nbc's gabe gutierrez. gabe, get us up to speed. >> reporter: hi, katy, good afternoon. michael slager is upstairs in the federal courthouse entering a guilty me as we speak. we just got our lands on the document. in the key line it says, "the defendant used deadly force, even though it was objectively uncleanly under the circumstances." pleading guilty to one federal count. that still carries the possibility of life in prison. let's back up here a little bit. you recall that slager shot and killed walter scott in april of 2015. and that he said during his state murder trial a few months ago that he feared for his life

and he did so in self-defense. of course, walter scott's family has said all along that this video that got national attention showed that walter -- that michael slager kill walter scott in cold blood, the family says. they say -- we just spoke with their attorneys a short time ago. they say they feel excited by today's developments but say they won't feel that justice has been served until michael slager is sentenced. that's not expected to happen for at least several weeks. again, michael slager entering a guilty plea upstairs in the federal yous rigcourthouse righ. state prosecutors, as part of this agreement, have agreed to drop the state murder charges. they'd previously vedory him on manslaughter or murder charges. that won't happen at this point. the big question right now is what a judge will sentence michael slager to, now in possibly a couple weeks or couple months. he still faces life in prison. though as part of this plea agreement he wouldn't have entered into it until he had a chance of getting much less of a prison sentence.

we expect to hear from the walter scott family immediately following this pre-trial hearing. >> nbc's gabe gutierrez in charleston, south carolina. gabe, thank you very much. stay with us, we'll be right back. look closely. hidden in every swing, every chip, and every putt, is data that can make the difference between winning and losing. the microsoft cloud helps the pga tour turn countless points of data into insights that transform their business and will enhance the game for players and fans. the microsoft cloud turns information into insight. hi, i'm frank. i take movantik for oic, opioid-induced constipation.

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president trump spoke with russian president vladimir putin by phone. call was the first between the two leaders since the u.s. launched a missile strike in syria last month. this after a dizzying 48 hours for a president who has raised eyebrows for saying he'd meet with jikim jong-un and presiden duterte of the philippines, and this after saying the civil war could have worked out. >> if it would be appropriate for me to meet with him, i would absolutely, i would be honored to do it. >> most political people would never say that. but i'm telling you, under the right circumstances, i would meet with him. >> i mean, had andrew jackson been a little bit later, you wouldn't have had the civil war. he was -- he was a very tough person. but he had a big heart. people don't ask that question. but why was there the civil war? why could that one not have been worked out? >> i just wanted to find out.

you are the president of the united states. you said he was sick and bad. >> you can take it any way you want. >> but i'm asking you. you don't want it to be fake news. >> you have your opinions. >> but you're the president of the united states. >> thank you. thank you very much. >> john dean is the former white house counsel for president richard nixon. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> trump had quite a day yesterday. there was that comment about andrew jackson, about how the civil war would not have happened, even though andrew jackson was born 16 years before the civil war started. he corrected himself later. he also talked about what an honor it would be to meet with kim jong-un. he floated the idea of a gas tax. talked about breaking up banks. had a friendly phone call with president duterte over the weekend. what do you make of all this? is this pressures of the white house that are causing donald trump to act erratically? or is it somethi else? >> well, it's hard to get inside

his mind. we're beginning to get used to his patterns, and they are predictably unpredictable. what i find fascinating is his total ignorance on so many issues. i wonder about that call to putin, for example, if he went through the normal protocols of actually preparing for it, having people in from the state department, then carefully recording it. i thought, what in the world is the guy who's translating that call in russia doing? because if you've ever read a trump transcript -- >> oh, i have. >> you indeed have. they are doozies. so probably very tough translation. but he's all over the lot on every issue. i found a fascinating piece in the "times" this morning by charles blow about his language level being at roughly that of a sixth to eighth-grader and probably on the slow end of that. so we've got a real problem with this president.

>> if you are a foreign leader, say you are an authoritarian leader, a dictator, somebody who doesn't have much regard for human rights, someone like the filipino president, duterte, kim jong-un, vladimir putin, what do you think when donald trump goes out of his way to praise you? what does that mean? >> well, i think that will depend upon the level of sophistication of the foreign leader or foreign dictator. putin probably is pretty well briefed on this. probably sees it for what it is. and i think he's shrewd enough to play it any way he wants to. trump think himself a tough negotiator. with e well, i think he's up against a tougher one with putin. i think they think he's a fool, frankly. i think most of the world leaders are wondering what in the world has happened to the united states that somebody like donald trump is the president. and we're going to pay a price

for it some time, somewhere along the line this presidency. >> the white house will say that they, in effect, are trying to form better relationships with a number of these leaders in order to keep americans safe, to fight terrorism. it is better to have a conversation, have a relationship so we can band together against the bigger threats that are facing the world. is there something to be said about trying to cultivate these leaders, trying to speak more nicely of them in order to get things done? >> well, if you look at the history of his praise for these kind of people, they're typically people that are not threatening of the united states other than potentially north korea, which doesn't have the capacity today. may tomorrow. but putin isn't really directly threatening us with any direct harm. he's trying to get in and mess around with our system, make it look weaker. but trump's affinity to these people seems to be on a much

more personal level in his attraction to strong man. so who knows what's going on in his brain with these attractions. >> he praised saddam hussein, said he was very good at fighting terrorists during the campaign. he also said that gadhafi should have stayed in charge. there have been a number of times where he's done just that, he's had kind words for dictators, human rights violators. so far he's said very little on the subject of human rights and holding democracy around the world. >> selecting andrew jackson as his historical idol i find is bizarre. he is known in the circles -- historians that i visit with as the worst of the great presidents. and he is the worst for real reasons. he literally killed a man in cold blood in a duel after he had been shot and the other guy was unarmed. he is somebody who did a brutal removal of native americans from

their homes. so i just don't get it where this is the kind of guy you'd want to say he's my ideal, he's my kind of strong >> he was a slave owner. slaughtered american indians. john dean, thank you very much. appreciate your expertise. up next, out of the wilderness. hillary clinton. we will go back to her. she is getting real and talking from why she lost to vladimir putin to the way forward for democrats. we will talk about that after the break. ♪ ♪ ♪ take on the mainstream. introducing nissan's new midnight edition. ♪

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he wants to tweet about me, i'm happy to be the diversion. because we have lots of other things to worry about. he should worry less about the election and my winning the popular vote than doing other things that would be important for the country. >> oh, wow. welcome back to 2016 taking on donald trump and his tweets. the former nominee who was center stage at the women's lurch y lurch yon. he discussed mi soj me in's role in the loss. >> i think it is something that whatever your political party, whatever your particular

ideological bent, you have a stake as a woman and a man to go back to your fertile comment. the ensuring of a promise of equality and what so many men and wom have made over the decades don't go backwards. >> i want to bring in the msnbc contributor and political analyst for ted cruz. hillary clinton talked about mi soj me in playing a and the russian interference and the hacking and fbi director james comey and the letter he sent to congress in october. what do you make of her assessment of her election loss. >> she hasn't moved on. she lost for good reasons. we can make all of those arguments. the russian hacking was well-known during the campaign. the comey thing went both ways.

it am cans down to the hillary clinton campaign was in the wrong states in the wrong time with the wrong voters. their data they said was wrong and if they had done a better job of targeting and hadn't been in places like wisconsin and other places, they might have had a different out come. >> was that the only reason she lost or is it fair to say the other things factored in. there was a difference after the comey letter came out. >> all of it is true. comey did things that no fbi director could do. sexism was a real role. it is also true. we saw this with the polls at the democratic party did recently that were talked about in the press this week. you look at the obama voters who switched to trump and stayed home, in each case it was issued related to the economy and the

struggle of people at the bottom of the economy that came into play. she really needed to be against the tpp. she needed to be for the $15 minimum wage. that's also true. >> rick, from what you have seen, you say hillary clinton needs to move on, but what about donald trump, he is bringing up the election left and right. are we stuck in arrested development? are we frozen in time and the watch in the middle of an explosion? are we going to be reliving this for the next four years? >> i hope not. it's good to go back to have retrospective, but she hasn't moved on. donald trump also needs to move on. thing she did not mention about her campaign's failure is bernie sanders. bernie sanders brought up all the things that are important to

voters over and over again. she was not on the right side of a lot of those issues and she was an establishment candidate in a mood of drain the swamp. bernie sanders was revolutionary and he stated it way too long and really damaged her. >> let's put bernie sanders aside. who do you want to see representing the democratic party? hillary clinton or barack obama or someone else? give me a name. >> i want to see the rising generation of people in the country who are crushed by student debt and families need us to raise the minimum wage and get involved. we saw come out of bernie sanders and out of hillary's campaign. thousands of young people are talking about running for office for the first time. in the case of president obama or secretary clinton, i would

like to see them both take a page out of jimmy carter's playbook and have a standard bearer for lifting our country from the bottom up of we are the country from all the folks who were -- >> and andrew jackson. >> for he was alive and kicking today he would be a republican. you are the retreads of the dixiecrats. >> donald trump is the that says that andrew jackson is. >> he is not with us. >> we are rapidly going off the rails here. i'm going to stop this right here. ben and rick, thank you for making me put my face on my desk. that wraps things up for me on this tuesday. thank the lord ali is picking

things up. >> andrew jackson is with us on the currency. they are both right. have a great afternoon. here are the top three stories we are following. republicans are scrambling to get votes for the health care plan. our nbc news shows 21 republicans voting no. another 17 undecided. republicans can only afford 22 nos. the main issue holding things up is people with preexisting conditions. paul ryan made this pitch. >> there are a few layers in this bill. what's important is we want to have a situation where people can afford the health insurance. >> will people with preexisting conditions be cover and will they be able to afford coverage? we will break it down. after a bizarre series of interviews for president trump, the presidents