abbas, signaling they want to make peace for the palestinians. >> that does it for this wednesday morning. i'm ayman mohyeldin alongside louis burgdorf. "morning joe" starts right now. when you heard in the last 48 hours about the deal, did you think we could build this? i bet you didn't. nobody did. is it a replacement for existing wall? yeah, that's fine. is it new wall? no. this is what's out there right now, this is what's going to be put in as a result of this bill. that is better border security. you can call it new wall, you can call it replacement, maintenance, whatever you want to. this construction you see here, i don't know if it's this exact construction because i don't know where this is, this wall is being installed in the southern border today. >> i can't mime right now. pick a wall, any wall. it's a wall. that was amazing. the trump administration spent yesterday on a last-minute pr

push trying to reframe the narrative out of thin air that they got rolled by the democrats. good morning everyone. it's wednesday, may 3rd, willie's birthday. >> back-to-back birthdays, mika. >> yes, but there's a wall between us. >> you need white gloves. >> why is it a national holiday in kazakhstan? >> i have no idea. >> in the ten years i've worked with you, is this like jerry lewis in france? what is it with you and kazakhstan? >> i thought they turned on me. >> i think when you were at cnn as a sports producer. >> it was a dirty, bloody weekend. i'm not proud of it but they made a holiday out of it. >> on willie's birthday we have former democratic congressman harold ford, junior, author of

the book of "a world in disarray," richard haass. senior writer from politico and co-author of "the playbook," jake sherman is with us. >> what's going on with the wall there. nick mulvaney, did they have all the funding in that? he said they funded a big beautiful wall with a door in the middle. is that what they do? >> no. this bill included no money for the wall. this bill included -- >> wait. hold on. >> i like that. >> i feel really confused here. >> you say this bill doesn't fund that wall? >> it doesn't. >> what was he doing? >> he said that's what this bill would do. >> fund that wall. >> i think since mr. mulvaney left capitol hill and went across town to the white house he's maybe lost a step. >> i've seen guys like this. he looks like a real estate

developer. and here is the second phase. going to be a beautiful condo. >> again, you have to mime that part of it. there is no wall there. >> what's going on, jake. i'm a little confused. >> if you talk to republicans on capitol hill, especially conservative republicans like mulvaney. his old friends on capitol hill, they say they lost this funding debate. they didn't get money for the wall, hardly got any priorities through. republican leadership takes issue with that. i'm sure you will all be getting text messages shortly. they think they got -- they did get some increased surveillance money. they call it a down payment on the wall. let's be completely clear. this funding bill will not build a wall, period, the end. >> whoa. these things are going better on health care. here is the headline for "the

washington post," harold ford junior. gop health care bill on shaky ground. >> not a good headline. >> it's not. >> i don't understand why nick mulvaney would do that yesterday. >> it seems a little self-destructive. >> that wasn't in the bill. >> because he was asked to by the president of the united states. i think a lot of people are going after that podium -- >> let me ask you and i'm serious -- what are we in? we're in may now. >> willie's birthday. >> here we are on this great national holiday for kazakhstan. are we in may where sean spicer was on january 20th with the president is angry and he pushes sean spicer to go lie about crowd size. >> and something he felt so uncomfortable about? donald trump hears something on rush limbaugh -- i don't know what -- that's what the kids are saying, urban legend, and then

he goes out. mulvaney who was a respected congressman is actually pushed out -- >> educated at georgetown. >> will lie about funding for a wall? i'm confused. >> jake can speak more about this. i know the white house was frustrated and the president was not happy to hear democrats were out speaking the football over the bill. they didn't defund planned parenthood, no specific money in there for the border wall. money for national institutes of health went up by $2 billion. democrats celebrating a victory and the president did not like that. >> yesterday, this is how it happened. sean spicer who does his briefing, he left. i think because nobody believes him. so they put in someone else. take a look. >> thank you very much, again and thank you for letting me have a shout-out to my wife. >> will you e-mail where that wall is from exactly so we can identify location? >> sean. >> sean.

>> sean, come on, sean. sean? >> what about the putin call. >> let's see. sit. no one leave. sit and wait. let's see. >> he said he's not coming back. >> so you have our own peter alexander say he's not come back. the damnest thing happened. he then went to the podium and said gentlemen, constitutionally i am in charge here. he did a total al hague and it was like what? what are you -- you're not al hague. this is absolutely chaos. >> this is like trying to set up a government in kindergarten. >> i am really curious. we've had the most bizarre interviews over the past 48, 72 hours, serious question here.

we're laughing, having fun, willie's birthday, nooshl holiday across the world. seriously, what is the national impa impact? what do leaders in germany and all across europe, all across asia, what does the world think of us when they see this clown show? and what impact does it have in the long run? >> to say they are scratching their heads wouldn't begin to scratch the surface. they don't know what to make of us. roger cohen wrote a good column about the idea that america is an idea, not just policies. we're supposed to represent something, we represent confidence, whether they agree with us or not they tend to respect us. i think there's something going on. it didn't begin with this administration, the years of being unable to govern hurt us, what happened in iraq hurt us. the financial scandal hurt us. now we're hurting ourselves. >> pretty devastating. in this century, just think

about how we came into the 21st century. the united states was an unparalleled power on the world stage. you would have to go back to roman times to find a country that dominated the world economically, culturally, militarily in 2000. and now 17 years later, we have had a president that did too much with iraq and a president that many people believe didn't do enough and now we have a president that appears to be in the middle of a meltdown. >> charles krauthamer wrote an essay about the unipolar moment. the u.s. had a degree of preponderance with no historical example. history will say, if i have to use one word, we squandered it

by our domestic pligolitical dysfunction, overreach and underreach abroad. now there's questions about judgment. a couple weeks ago raised foremost the question of judgment of exactly who we are and what we're trying to do. >> to give it a little more domestic flare. he could have used this moment as a moment of progress. this is a moment where congress showed some competence and moved. it waited a long time to do this. they got a good bill through. republicans and democrats alike, the president seemed to like it until chuck schumer and a few democrats got more excited about it. perhaps they shouldn't have done this. they're trying to appeal to the progressive base of democrats who want to see a good fight. this is a sign that they could move forward on taxes, move forward on something where you need bipartisan agreement. after watching mulvaney, he was pushed out because he's a conservativive and he could speak to the more conservatives in the house.

he proved to be more inefficiece of spicer. even spicer leaving, i'll defend this. i'll defend the president because i work for him. i'm in the going to defend nick mull vaughn any because it was incomprehensible. would you agree with that? >> exactly. nick mulvaney, a guy carried a lot of respect in the house. i've got a lot of friends in sks sks, a lot of respect for him. the bigger question, do these people understand donald trump will not always be president. >> they have a life after this and they need their credibility. >> i'm dead serious. sean spicer built up a really good reputation in washington. a good guy, a nice guy. that has been shattered by what's happened over the past 110 days or however long it's been, and nick mulvaney looks like he's going down the same path. willie, i've had conversations with people that have worked in four or five white houses, and i've always warned them, you've

got to remember this, too, shall pass. the guy you think is going to be president forever will not. the only thing you'll be able to carry with you is your reputation. >> the only option for someone like sean spicer whose job it is to go out every day, take flak, is to step aside. it may be too late for him in washington because he's for three months at the go out and da r do this. i will say this is another moment where the temperament and the personality of the person we elect president matters. i don't view a budget deal, as harold said, it could have been a good moment for the country, a foundation for something else. he watched as chuck schumer and other documents celebrated the deal and said it was better for him and better for the president. >> this is a guy that can't let anything go by. we talked about this before. he can't let anything go by.

he's up at the plate and hits rah double. there's a guy in the left field bleachers that shouts out at him. >> he has to talk out. >> he runs out to second base, climbs the wall to get to the left field bleachers. >> they need to find a room and put him in it with no media and not let him listen to any media. >> lots of luck there. >> he's obsessed with himself. >> a vote could come on a bipartisan bill to fund the government through september, a plan upon which both sides agree. >> but as the narrative began to build that democrats steamrolled the president, he did what he did so often. he started tweeting. quote, the reason the plan between the republicans and democrats is we need 60 votes in the senate which are not there. we either elect more republican senators in 2018 or change the rules to 51% now. our country needs a good shutdown in september to fix

mess. the president's threat of a shutdown and call to change the filibuster rules isn't the first time he's advocated blowing up the system. here he is on friday. >> there is an overwhelming majority -- >> i understand why, a very rough system. it's an archaic system. you look at the rules of the senate, even the rules of the house, but the rules of the senate and some of the things you have to go through, it's really a bad thing for the country in my opinion. they're archaic rules. maybe at some point we'll have to take those rules on because of the good of the nation things will have to be different. you can't go through a process like this. it's not fair. it forces you to make bad decisions. you're forced into doing things that you would normally not do except for these archaic rules. >> there is an overwhelming majority on a bipartisan basis not interested in changing the

way the senate operates on the legislative calendar, and that will not happen? >> why not? >> it would fundamentally change the way the senate has worked for a very long time. we're not going to do that. >> score another one for mitch mcconnell. my main man mitch. i wouldn't have thought that 100 days ago. mitch mcconnell, he stood up time and time again to skort of the craziness. >> listening to the president you are reminded he is very, very new to washington, that he is accustomed to running his business as a very small family business, and he takes umberage and offense very easily at the slightest of things. mitch mcconnell not only looks like an adult, but like the godfather, you've got to trust the way the system can work. if president has said he's not a dictator, he's not a king, he

was elected by the people. if you're in another country and look how close this election was, there would be a representative of democrats and others in his cabinet. in fact, he has to work -- that's how the system is set up, checks and balances. i'm reminded what jeff sessions said, when he said a judge in the middle of the pacific can stop a presidential order. that's what judges do. >> we also call that a united states federal judge. i went to alabama so i know, they even call them federal judges. >> maybe a few more syllables, but federal judges, the same thing. >> willie, again, this is a guy that is completely ignorant about history of american government, about american government itself, about how it runs and even the widest people that go into the white house are always shocked that the president of the united states is not, unless you're just stupid and like the trappings

and the toys, it's not a fun job. >> it's a service. it's duty. >> the most powerful person in washington, d.c. is the senate minority leader. i've always said that. that explains the checks and balances of the system. he doesn't get it. >> it represents the theme of the first 105 days, i thought it would be easier, i thought the job would be easier. the archaic system line falls under that as well which is to say, he thought he would roll in, he thinks he has a mandate even though he lost the popular vote, rip up obamacare, build a border wall. and he came in and realized there is a system to slow that process down, whether it's congress or the courts. >> richard, it keeps the balance. that's what he will never understand. i learned it the first time in '93 and '94, i loved the senate because they slowed down

everything that bill clinton wanted to do. the senate was my favorite. in '95 and '96, i hated the senate because the senate killed everything that the conservative house tried to do. after four years, i said, oh, wait, that's what our founding fathers intended and that's why we've thrived 240 years. >> justice brandeis, the famous quote that the purpose of the american government is not efficiency, and the entire american political spirit, the opposition to king george against the idea of tyranny. we ultimately chose inefficiency, checks and balances, sluggishness of government over tyranny. that's the roots of the american political experiment. avoiding the shutdown, given that republicans controlling the white house and both chambers of congress, the president had no leverage. ultimately the republicans are responsible for government right now. it would have been a great one just to get out of the way, let

the democrats have their day and get on with your agenda, whether tax cuts or anything else. this is a time, as you would say, to move on. >> failure is even worse. >> can't even play for three hours from now. >> jake sherman, they're still slogging through health care, seriously? >> they say they're going to come to a vote on thursday. i find that hard to believe. we have on politico this morning lawmakers are going to go down to the white house. they're working on an amendment that's meant to get some more moderates on board. we'll see if it does. there are 20 public knows. at 23 they lose the vote. just on the previous point for a second, there's no constituency in washington for a shutdown. the debt limit comes up at the same time. if you want to get tax reform done and the president is threatening a shutdown, there's no prayer for tax reform, no constituency for this. also, the rules of the house

which he said in that interview with fox, they're not archaic, the house operates on a simple majority. the president can either get the votes for his agenda or not. that's kind of the reality that he needs to face. this is not a complicated equation. despite people wanting to call him a dealmaker, he's not cut a single deal since being in washington. he's not a dealmaker, and he needs to prove that he is if he wants to be considered one. right now he's been unable to get his own party around a piece of legislation that they've been campaigning on for the last half dozen years. this isn't complicated. this is a political reality that they've looked at for the last -- since 2010. it's not complicated. it's pretty simple and it's a political reality that he should really face. >> jake, let me ask you what seems to be an important question but not many people are talking about, as we talk about the fight within the house, whether they'll have a vote and whether or not it will get out of the house. is there any chance that the bill we're looking at right now

on health care passes the united senate? will this ever come to pass or are we having an intermural fight. >> intermural fight. a lot of people i'm talking to on capitol hill are saying thanks but no thanks, i'm not voting on something that's just going to die in the senate. mitch mcconnell has been pretty clear on this. he told us about a month ago, either is going to pass or it's not. he's not laying down on the train tracks for this. this is under budget reconciliation rules which is complicated, but it allows for unlimited amendments. so the senate is going to have a field day with this bill. if you think they're going to do this and tax reform in the next couple months, dream on. it's just not possible. the institution as you guys know can only take on a certain amount of water and a certain amount of pressure, and doing both tax reform and health care is tough. >> an amazing thing, guys, that

republicans in congress are asked to stick their neck out, but also the president spending whatever political capital he has left on something that's not going to pass the senate. >> i think people need to think for themselves, nick mulvaney. use your own brain, not the president's. >> not even going to get through the senate if they pass the house. >> come on now. >> little known fact about willie's birthday. >> lighten things up. >> godfather of soul, james brown. >> who else? >> franky valley. >> that's correct. >> one more? >> dinah shore. >> biggest selling single of all time, not richard haass. that was number two. bing crosby. >> what's the biggest selling single of all time? >> "white christmas." >> jake sherman, thank you so

much. >> one other thing, willie geist, in new york, in the boroug boroughs, why is this day loathed by sports fans? >> may 3rd. i don't know the answer to that. >> the day walter o'malley decided to move to tfrom brookl dodgers to los angeles. >> still ahead on "morning joe" -- >> did hillary clinton really say that she lost in places that didn't have cell service for miles? >> broadband. >> because i checked, right? she won new canaan, harold. my cell phone hasn't worked there in six or seven years. >> hillary clinton gives her most detailed comments yet on how she lost the election. plus senator elizabeth warren joins us live this morning. i look forward to that. >> did you know, mika, 23% cell phone coverage in new canaan,

connecticut. >> house democratic whip steny hoyer, congressman billy long representing the reddest district anywhere but is still opposing his party's health care bill. we're going to find a republican who works with his brain. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪ what powers the digital world. communication. that's why a cutting edge university counts on centurylink to keep their global campus connected. and why a pro football team chose us to deliver fiber-enabled broadband to more than 65,000 fans. and why a leading car brand counts on us to keep their dealer network streamlined and nimble. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink.

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hey you've gotta see this. cno.n. alright, see you down there. mmm, fine. okay, what do we got? okay, watch this. do the thing we talked about. what do we say? it's going to be great. watch. remember what we were just saying? go irish! see that? yes! i'm gonna just go back to doing what i was doing. find your awesome with the xfinity x1 voice remote. it wasn't a perfect campaign. there is no such thing. but i was on the way to winning until a combination of jim comey's letter on october 28th and russian wikileaks raised doubts in the minds of people who were inclined to vote for me but got scared off. t

the if the election had been on october 27th, i'd be your president. within an hour or two of the "hollywood access" tape being made public, the russian theft of john podesta's e-mails hit wikileaks. what a coincidence. you just can't make this stuff up. so did we make mistakes? of course we did. did i make mistakes, oh, my gosh, yes, you'll read my confession and my request for absolution. but the reason why i believe we lost were the intervening events in the last ten days. >> all right. so who is going to say it on the set? who is going to say it? >> don't make me say it. >> anybody going to say it? that was pathetic. i'll say it. let me go out, i'll get killed. everybody i've talked to, everybody i have talked to, democrats, independents, republicans and the like said that is pathetic. i will take blame is the

throw-away line. here is a woman i have said for years i want my daughter to emulate for her toughness and her grittiness and her perseverance. i've never seen anybody in public life as tough as hillary rodham clinton, and i want my daughter to see that and understand when you get knocked down you keep getting up. hillary clinton has done that more than anybody i have ever seen, not just in american politics, but in american life. she is to be admired for that. this, though, sadly, and i'll just throw it out on the table because i know nobody probably wants to say this, this is a trait i don't want anybody i know to carry. the fact that the entire campaign team, the democratic party, everybody connected with her, everybody in american politics understands comey played a major role, and so did putin and so did a lot of things. at the end of the day, the buck

stops at the top with somebody who ran if you read "shattered," you've read it. tfs a pathetic campaign, a horrific campaign. at the end of "shattered," i came to the conclusion that you came to, richard, my god, if she had actually won, what would this administration look like? >> the organization of campaigns and the organization of governments. what we said about the president, it's time to move on. there's something there about it's time to move on. she never articulated her case for president. i think there's enormous space to talk about the present and future. this sort of stuff, it doesn't help her, doesn't help the democratic party or the country's debate. >> i was going to say, let other people talk about comey.

when she does, we have to talk about again, even what the reporters are saying, here are the 43 reasons why she lost. "the new republic" had an article last night that hillary clinton still doesn't understand why she lost the campaign. >> donald trump tweeted in response to hillary clinton about why he thinks he won the election. we're mired in this conversation about something that happened months and months and months ago. it's true that hillary clinton set up the server, true that she called the large section of the american public deplorable. she had a long list of places where she could have done better. did a lot of people break late in the states that decided the election? yeah, they broke in large part for donald trump. maybe the letter did convince some of them, but certainly not all of them. >> mika, all along you had people inside the campaign saying to hillary clinton, you've got to add three points.

there are a lot of people not admitting they're voting for donald trump that are going to vote for donald trump. did they break late? maybe so. this wasn't even about late breakers so mitch as it was about her not going to wisconsin, not focusing on michigan and her not having a message. by the way, she can talk about comey all she wants. when we were at the democratic national convention in july, ed rendell who knows pennsylvania politics basically said to me, we're going to lose pennsylvania. it's going in the wrong direction. joe biden came on our air and said we're in trouble in pennsylvania, she's in trouble with white working class voters. guess who else was saying it? bill clinton behind the scenes in august, trying to get people to focus. robby mook and everybody else said, no, there's a new kind of politics. no there wasn't. politics is politics.

you know who else was saying it? barack obama behind the scenes worried all along. he couldn't say it, but worried all along. i personally, i think comey had a huge impact in this campaign, but let others say it. back in july and august, you had the best minds in the democratic party saying she's going to lose this race if she's not careful. >> three weeks out we won this show and i heard from colleagues in michigan saying michigan was in serious disrepair. some democrats and republicans. my idea was dismissed by some in the campaign as foolishness, that they had this figured out. >> you tried to tell them three weeks out they were this trouble in michigan. >> it was real. i'm just telling you with the people i know on the ground. richard said it best, she should be talking about what she would be doing as president and the kinds of things the country should be focused on and that's the value she can offer now, as democrats struggle to reassert and reinvent and reimagine an

idea that can win in 18 or 20. you watch this and it's painful. i imagine there's a lot of pain in her and perhaps the family as they think about this. this is not the way to bring about therapy for her and certainly which i know she cares deeply about the country and the party. this is not the path to take to provide the best advice and the best counsel and the best pattern for democrats to take. >> also, the fact that she is so strongly saying this now so many months after the election, it shows this arrogance and the sense that this coronation was so engrained in her, that she still can't believe it today. >> i get that, but she shouldn't go do that. that may linger for a while. >> you should be worried about your election until literally the last vote is cast, and you should not think you're going to win. >> what did you say, mika, three weeks out. >> i said it was an arrogant

campaign. get off your high horse, similar her down, this campaign is arrogant and still doesn't have a message. i remember actually being -- not seeming like something a woman should say, women power. >> you know what the most stunning thing was and again for those of us that have read "shattered," the most stunning thing was that throughout the entire campaign hillary clinton was angry at her staff for not being able to tell her when she was running for president. she was angry at her staff for not being able to tell her what her message was supposed to be. richard, harold and i can tell you, you never step out and even think about running until you know exactly why you are going to run. this is my mission, this is my

cause, i will fight for it until i die on the campaign trail. she still didn't know what that message was when people were voting. >> there's different kinds of intelligence. hillary clinton has a kind of intelligence -- one of the best analysts i know of what comes into her in box. what she doesn't have is the top-down packaging, the way her husband does, making a cohesive argument. ironically enough it's the problem right now on democratic centrists, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren have a good argument on their side of the party. what's missing is an argument about centrist democrats, what their agenda is. what you see in this is still the opportunities being missed, to go out and articulate, not just what she should have said then. she's liberated now. she could have a major voice in the future of the party and the fewer of the country. nobody there in the democratic

center making the case. it seems she's missing that opportunity. >> that arrogance, that sort of we're in charge, going to be in charge again, we have so much power, we bring in the money, we bring in the people. that arrogance made it impossible for them to literally see what was in front of them, and that is that bill clinton was made a liability by donald trump's presence. tfs obvious to me when donald trump came on the scene that bill clinton all of a sudden, the whole moral conversation can't be had or you don't want it to be had, and they could never see that. they always saw themself as somehow off limits for people to talk about. >> maureen dowd saw it from the beginning. >> secretary clinton said yesterday she misrepresented what happened in the campaign when she said i was asked about the frivolous things all the time. my e-mails, i was never asked about my jobs plan. lester holt asked her as his first question on the first

debate at hofstra what her jobs plan was. they're trying to create the narrative that the press was obsessed with flif rouse things. when she was asked over and over about jobs. >> even on the server, the original sin of that campaign, which dogged her the entire campaign, she may still think it's frivolous and some of her supporters think it was frivolous. after james comey gave what was a disastrous press conference, 56% of americans said they thought she should have been indicted. if they're still in a bubble thinking that was a frivolous issue throughout the campaigntion, they don't understand, it was all about judgment, and she may have been the only candidate in america that could have had lower honest and trustworthy numbers than donald trump, but she did. >> democrats need to move beyond clinton quickly. coming up -- >> plural, clintons.

>> are president trump and vladimir putin planning a face-to-face meeting? we'll talk about that next on "morning joe." kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. at crowne plaza we know business travel isn't just business. there's this. 'a bit of this. why not?

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trump also took some heat when he said he didn't know what caused the civil war. to prove he has a good understanding of history, trump released his own textbook. take a look at some of the definitions. for the ottoman empire. he wrote, fantastic store. where i buy my poot stoolgs. plymouth rock, this is where simba was held up after he was born. next for the gunfight at the ok corral. he wrote, fake news, it was a tremendous corral. for the battle of the alamo, he wrote, hate to pay my ex-wives alamo. still ahead, senator elizabeth warren will be our guest. up next pulitzer prize winner bob woodward will be our guest. "morning joe" is coming right back. hey allergy muddlers

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>> translator: we never interfere into political lives and political processes in other countries. we would very much like that no one interfere into our political life and the political life in russia. these are rumors used in the internal political struggle in the u.s. >> that was vladimir putin refuting claims his government interfered in american elections. meanwhile, the president spoke with putin yesterday by phone, the first conversation between the two since the u.s. launched an air strike against the moscow-backed -- >> alex, did they speak in russian? was hannity there to interpret. >> one of them spoke in russian. >> hannity or trump? i'm asking a question here. >> according to the white house readout of the call, mr. trump

and mr. putin agreed both sides must do all they can to end the violence there. that readout failed to mention that president trump and mr. putin also discussed the possibility of meeting in person at the g-20 summit in germany in july. a spokesperson for the national security council later confirmed that discussion, but said nothing has been solidified. >> is trump actually going. >> to the g-20? >> trump is going to leave the country? >> he'll go. >> that would be a first. >> did he tried to get it moved to mar-a-lago. >> he should meet with putin there. >> of course, we want him to. >> i think he might have the summit moved to his club in new jersey. >> brier cliff? >> the bed minister. >> that's the one in jersey. >> that way he can continue his winning streak of never leaving the country, barely ever leaving the east coast -- never leaving the east coast. >> they can have it at the trump properties in turkey, right.

>> right. >> then he'd have to actually go somewhere. >> istanbul. >> it's not going to happen. he does not leave. he likes people to come to him. >> they should have it in istanbul. >> joining us from washington, associate editor of "washington post" bob woodward. >> a wind up for bob. how are you, bob? >> good. how are you? >> it's best instead of us asking you questions, just push a button, have you talk -- >> like the button in the oval office that brings the diet coke. we have one here for bob woodward. >> no, this one you press a button and a legend tells you what they are working on. what interests you? usually you're following something. what are you following today? >> i'm following your conversation of the thought i had was suppose you were doing a book on the trump administration and trying to condense what

happened in the first 100 days. not much. a lot of road testing of ideas, gorsuch to the supreme court but really didn't change the balance. interestingly enough, this budget deal actually is something new, five months of spending. trump won on defense. the democrats won on lots of things. nih funding, for example. if you can pull away from the politics here, there is such a thing as the national interest. that budget deal may be in the national interest. makes sense, avoids the shutdown. like in any deal, somebody got half and somebody got maybe more than half. >> you know, bobby, it's interesting you say that there was an nbc poll out a month or two ago that said over 70% of

americans believed we were more divided than ever before but 77% of americans wanted their representatives to compromise. the word used, compromise to work with the other side. i think you're onto an important point here. willie and harold brought it up already today that we actually have something to celebrate from yesterday. republicans and democrats talking and working with each other, averting a shutdown, compromising. and yet you have the president who can't let it rest because maybe a right wing radio talk show host attacked it. >> well, of course, the democrats couldn't let it rest and had to claim, hey, look, we rolled trump on this and that and so forth. of course, when you make a deal, you should step aside and say, we made the deal. exactly as you say, it's a compromise. but it is in the national

interest this go ahead. all of the rhetoric and everything that's going on, we hope we get beyond these accusations of fake news and let's talk about real things. what does interest me, to try to answer your question, behind the scenes there is a process in the trump administration, in the national security area, which is quite reasoned and thoughtful. it includes steps on all of the issues around the world. what's going to be decided, as david ignatius said this morning in a column, we don't know. but there is a process. it's got lots of logic to it. people are able to bring their points of view in. there have been some meetings involving decisions and president trump listens. >> hey, bob, it's willie.

you've obviously studied and chronicled so many presidential administrations over the years. as you look at these first 100 and change days at this point, how much steeper has the learning curve been for president trump than previous presidents you studied. how does it size up? >> well, it's substantial. but we've had lots of presidents who have come on the scene, obama, george w. bush, clinton, who didn't have this federal government experience. they probably learned quicker, "but there was lots of stumbling. i'm trying, if you think about a book coming out in 2018, what actually is done, what happens. there are going to be some really big decisions made. as karl rove always says, it depends on outcomes. do those things work in national security, in domestic policy, in the economy? we'll see.

if you tried to write a book about the first 100 days, it would really be thin. it would be a tweet here, a discussion here, a decision, apparently, and then a reversal of that decision. not much has happened. >> no. bob woodward. that's one way of looking at it. >> the two headlines, you have gorsuch and you have the serious strike. certainly among conservatives with gorsuch that was a home run. with the strike, would say he did that, too. that's it. domestically. >> nothing. >> very thin. >> bob word waodward, stay with. elizabeth warren joins us amid speculation she may challenge trump in 2020. i would like to see it happen. i think she's evolving just right. we'll ask if she agrees with hillary clinton's assessment of

why democrats lost the last election. plus republican senator cory cardner, steny hoyer. mika paused to let me talk. >> i tried. >> i blew my shot. >> he got all excited. >> i got excited. i never get to talk on this show. makes me sad. >> unbelievable. >> steny hoyer, who accuses the gop of, quote, misleading the american people on trump care. "morning joe" is back in a moment. brian, i just need to know if the customer app will be live monday. can we at least analyze customer traffic? can we push the offer online? brian, i just had a quick question. brian? brian... legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. you're saying the new app will go live monday?!

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every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ this week our republican team had its own victory under the radar in our new budget. we've ended years of painful cuts to our military and just achieved a $21 billion increase in defense spending. we didn't do any touting like the democrats did. >> trump got rolled. republicans got rolled. they ended up with nothing really. it's sort of embarrassing. i understand the strategic idea we're halfway through the year, only a few months left, all negotiated in the past. you save your fire for next year. that's what they do every time, save the fire and don't use it next time.

trump has been wonderful, i think, in throwing out ideas starting with gas tax. there's no denying the fact this was not a win. he's not the winner he said he was, a negotiator, this is a total loss. that stung. >> welcome back to "morning joe," wednesday, may 3rd. happy birthday, willie. >> holiday, right? >> 29 years old. >> controversial holiday. >> happy birthday. >> it is tractor-trailer. >> in kazakhstan. >> kind of hot. >> what was that? veteran columnist and msnbc contributor mike barnicle, council on foreign relations richard haass. former congressman haroldford, jr. fo bob woodward. good to have you on board today. >> the sox last night? >> red sox won last night.

it was a terrible evening before adam jones baltimore royals was subject of racial slur hurled from some fan behind the dugout and resurrected to many dismal memories that have continued to sustain boston as a racial city. it's horrendous the way this continues. there's no excuse for it new york city explanation for it. we have a huge problem in this country with racism. >> this series has already gotten ugly this year, really ugly this year. getting a standing o last night at fenway when he went to the plate. also, this series has gotten in april it started to get ugly. people throwing heads. >> can't do that. >> let's get to politic.

a vote could come, bipartisan deal to fund the government, both sides agree. narrative that democrats steam rolled the president, he did what he does so often, started tweeting. quote, the reason for the plan negotiated between republicans and democrats is that we need 60 votes in the senate which are not there. we either elect republican senators in 2018 or change the rules to 51%. our country needs a good shutdown in september to fix mess. >> bob woodward, this president, if you're writing that book, you've got to say this president is so obsessed with media he can't let one slight go by. >> that's true. on this budget deal, i hate to get into the technicalities of it but in the latter obama years, the agreement was the sequester automatic spending cu

cuts, half domestic, half defense. there had to be equity between the two. in this deal, they broke the back of it and defense goes up. that is an accomplishment for the republicans and trump. i think that's a significant part to embrace. but to get into this business of let's change the senate rules, as you point out, mitch mcconnell is up there. it was the final no, that's not going to happen. you have to learn to focus on what you've won. in fact, i disagree with charles krauthammer there that republicans got rolled completely. they did not. >> i don't think they did. i think charles was just enjoying it. he was not -- >> i don't know. he didn't look comfortable. >> charles. >> bad. >> gave him a little bump.

but the president takes the bait from rush limbaugh early in the day. >> oh, my gosh. >> schumer and other democrats playing to their base. the president of the united states. >> this is silly. >> why can't you let it pass? instead a government shutdown. that's worked really well for republicans the last two times we tried i. >> the president of the united states has no discipline when it comes to restraining himself from tweeting and nobody around him has the clout to go in and tell the president to stop doing it. >> that's the part i'm stunned by. >> i was speaking with someone who has worked for two administrations, republican administration and the democratic administration at a very high level. he was keyed in on the fact that the chief of staff, reince priebus in this administration apparently has at least 12 to 15 people who have open access -- walk-in access to the oval office. he said it's completely unheard of. you've got to rein in the

president, impose discipline. the way to do that, only the chief of staff can do that. >> this, bob woodward, is the same problem bill clinton had the first year. i'm not comparing the two, blah, blah, blah. but the reviews were about the same. it was amateur hour at the white house. everybody had access to him. gergen went in there and said basically there's no adult supervision. panetta went in there and said you come through me if you want to talk to him. >> particularly panetta came in as chief of staff, replacing clinton's old friend. panetta in his way, without being heavy-handed, said, look, we've got to bring some order he here, and in fact he did. good question. when is this going to happen. these tweets cause all kinds of

problems for trump, for people who work for him. what interests me is the national security process they have developed. i've looked at some of it. h.r. mcmaster, the security adviser, has a very interesting way of coming into a problem. he calls them frames. there are four or five frames, issues we need to address, that we can't skirt around. not one or two. then he opens it for discussion at a high level, mid level, even occasionally low levels. >> i'm sorry. not enough attention in his head to follow frames but nice try. agitation spelled out by white house budget director mick mulvaney. we've been in the room with him. he can't last 10 seconds. mick mulvaney, i guess the president got into his head and

he pulled off his impromptu press briefing. >> i think the president is frustrated with the fact that he negotiated in good faith with the democrats and they went out to try to spike the football and make him look bad. i get that frustration because i think it's a terrible posture the democrats are going to take. if we're sitting here trying to prove to people washington will be different, we'll change things, figure out a way to work with them and do that to the president, listen, i would take offense to that. not surprising at all his manifestations were that way. i don't anticipate a shutdown in november. but if the democrats aren't going to behave any better than they have in the last two days, it may be inevitable. when you heard in the last 48 hours about the deal, did you think we could build this? nobody did. is it a replacement for existing wall? that's fine. a new wall? no. this is what's out there now. this is what's going to be put in as a result of this bill. that is better border security. you can call it new wall, replacement, maintenance, call

it what you want to. this construction you see here -- i don't know if it's this exact construction, i don't know where this photograph is, this wall is installed in the southern border today. >> oh, my god. >> coming into the shrubbery. to the right, jackie has this plan for a swimming pool. you are going to love it. that's coming in phase three. you put your money down -- >> did have the look of a sales pitch. harold ford, let me ask you this -- >> can i just stop and ask real quickly. wouldn't we love to be in a parallel universe, like paris or something. frf macron. >> what the white house is arguing over here should be a

success. in other words, congress and the white house got together and did something together. in a parallel universe they come out and say, you know what, we negotiated, go the a deal. donald trump would say i'm a negotiator. i gave some things but i got a lot of things. here is what i got, here is what i gave. chuck schumer could do the same thing. that could be foundation and building block for health care, tax reform. instead, everything is taken so personally that it turns into a fight and sends them running in opposite directions. >> you said it better than i could. the country on both sides of the aisle have said that's what they want morning anything, for progress to be made. the president and white house has to understand, the one voice or set of voices that are listened to, voices that resonate the most in national press circles, national press forums and foundations is the white house. if chuck schumer democrats speak from the capital, sure, reverb rates from local newspapers on the hill, some bloggers, but the last word, evening news word,

morning news word comes from the white house. now everyone is going to be reminded this president believes he got outnegotiated in a deal when, in fact, mulvaney and spicer should have been out what we've been saying all morning, look, this is a win. we're going to move taxes and there was a predicate to get it done. >> there was a compromise. yes, there's people on both sides. don't like it -- every person that walks away from a deal knows that the best deals are the ones where people on both sides walk away unhappy. >> i'm smirking because i'm seriously considering putting a down payment on a house on 14th green that mick mulvaney was selling us. >> that was terrible. >> understand, that is phase four, the golf course. you're not going to see -- >> spicer and mulvaney -- >> it's coming. it will be there. put your money down now. a beautiful 17th hole.

>> please stop talking like that. >> dogleg left, i promise you. >> a great moment to segue into the fact he has a domestic agenda, take the deal, get it off the table, governing, now focus on tax reform. it would have been such an easy pivot for the white house to make. in some ways it's not too late, they should make the pivot. they avoided the shutdown. >> it's a win. why are they so thin skinned. >> i don't know why donald trump -- >> even mick mulvaney. >> mick mulvaney was ordered to go out there like shawn spafr. >> he doesn't have a mind of his own anymore so he couldn't say it's a bad idea. this is what trump does to people. look what he did to spicer. look at that. >> mind ray gun. >> i think he bullies people into submission. look at spicer. >> joe, i don't understand why they didn't trumpet the fact they got more defense spending. that should have been the only line they used yesterday.

look, we're going to keep the country safer. that was a big part of his campaign narrative. instead obviously we've all been talking about what they have done and how unproductive. >> by the way, how many of you saw some of that air force -- >> it was painful. >> donald trump held those kids hostage basically to sit and watch a random political speech talking about how great he was. what he's going to do, willie, i bet you, there's going to be more and more reluctance for schools to let their teens come to the white house if they are going to be used as props. that was an embarrassment yesterday. >> they were there as a football team. they were there to talk about football. eventually the football coach came up. donald trump had those brave men and women in uniform stand behind him. he wanted to use that as a moment to tout what he had done

in the first 100 days. they weren't expecting to be part of that. >> the press wasn't expecting sean spicer to bolt yesterday after mulvaney tried to sell one of the most beautiful four phase developments. look at this. >> thank you very much geb and thank you for letting me have a shout out to my wife. >> would you e-mail where that wall was so we can identify the location. >> sean -- >> sean -- >> what about the putin call. >> no one leave. no one leave. sit and wait. let's see. >> as we said, that's when he went up and went full --

women -- >> please don't disrespect alexand alexander hague. >> it's just unbelievable. the chaos from the top to bottom of this administration, you look what happened yesterday and it all starts with donald trump. >> there's an informality and worse. the good news, we haven't been confronted with an international crisis. there have been many self-generated. the world has given us a bit of a moment but that won't last forever. this has got to get sorted out. at some point this administration and president will be seriously tested. this kind of, again, unstructured informality won't sustain it. >> what about the bigger danger, richard haass -- bob woodward. this president fails

domestically, can't pass anything, then decides to assert himself internationally in ways that aren't in the country's best interest but make him look like a strong leader. >> that's something we're going to have to measure. i think we should not kid ourselves, that does not make the press look good. that whole scene you ran. you can sit with kind of self-satisfaction, they are running, not answering the questions, but the press looks like they are nagging. if i would have been sitting there, i would have got up and walked out. you don't want to have that kind of fight. you can call people, chase people down and try to get better answers. it's a good question about the wall. i looked at that photo and thought maybe it was tinker toys or something and not necessarily real. they should answer that.

but that little video clip you ran makes the press look bad also. >> willie, while we're talking about what's going on on the hill, you, of course, had the people doing back and forth yesterday who won, the partisans who won. this "washington post" headline, the president once again pushing for health care before recess. >> this is the scarborough hot stove rule. if you burn your hand, pick it up, watch it blister and ooze a little bit and then do it again. >> no one knows that rule. >> what donald trump is doing going back on health care again. they think they are going to have a vote, the house does tomorrow. he doesn't see that happening. by the way, this all might be a moot discussion. say they did something, get it out of the house and into the senate where it likely won't pass. they are having an opposite problem are a month ago,

moderates won't get behind it because of medicaid expansion, pre-existing conditions, things like that. last month it was the opposite problem. it appears there's no ground between tuesday moderates and freedom caucus. >> you could have a subhead on that "washington post" headline. the subhead could be speaker ryan has lost control of the house. >> he's unfortunately -- harold ford, he's in a pretty horrific position right here with a president that he just doesn't know what the president is going to do the next hour, let alone the next day. and they are operating -- republicans, i think, leadership operating under the assumption that these members will want to be able to have a vote where they repealed obamacare and put a replacement there. but as you and i -- i know i was told this when i first got to congress, the easiest vote to always explain is a no. whereas if they vote for a bad

bill, even if it never passes the senate, which it never will, that's going to be hanging around their neck. every provision, every bad provision, every health care cut, every person in their district that doesn't get pre-existing coverage for their child, every son who sees his mother suffering because she's lost her health care, every daughter who sees her mom suffering because she lost -- every one of those voters will blame it on the vote for this bill that will never pass the senate. so why if you're a republican, and you don't want nancy pelosi to be speaker of the house do you ever vote for this bad bill. >> you've laid it out again better than i could explain. you have to think paul ryan sits this morning and says, gosh, i thought we worked out pretty good averting government shutdown and gave the president a victory.

we obviously had to make some concessions. two, on the health care piece, it's clear there's no communication between the white house and congress in any meaningful way with the house. you said it best i think a day or two ago. there's a precedent for this where democrats voted for basically a tax increase on the energy front and the bill got to the senate. it never came back to the house. you have all these house democrats on record voting for a gas tax of some sort. why would you want to put the republicans in the same bind. if you're a democrat or partisan you love this but it won't fix problems with health care that need to be fixed. mike barnicle, i thought what happened in boston was one of the most reprehensible unconscionable things. on so many front, even the president of the team, how he handled it i thought was pretty admirable as well. it was an awful situation and i think boston tried to make the best of it last night. >> as we wrap up this block, the point you made about the press,

global affairs and politics, these humor and just so everyone fully understands what's happening here on this set this morning, a lot of humor. humor often is a stress release. this is a very grave time. it really is. we're trying to get through it every day. bob woodward, thank you. richard haass, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe." >> thank you, richard. >> senator elizabeth warren joins us after she called president obama receiving hundreds of thousands in speaking fees troubling. >> how is health care? we're moving along? i think it's time now. right? right. they know it's time. >> we'll find out exactly how well it's going from house minority whip steny hoyer. and republican senator cory gardner joins the conversation. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. m in vests a vested investor in vests, i invest with e*trade, where investors can investigate and invest in vests...

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welcome back to "morning joe." north korea's state run news agency confirmed reports from last month that the country has detained a third american citizen for, quote, hostile acts. the announcement comes after north korean tv anchor yesterday accused of driving sensitive situation in the korean peninsula to a point close to nuclear war. while pyongyang warnings south korea will be submerged in a sea of fire, japan reduced to ashes. after bilateral training mission wall street south korea and japan last week. back at home in just the past few days, president trump has both praised north korean dictator kim jong-un, calling him a smart cookie, and saying it was an honor to meet with him while also saying he's very threatening and a big threat to the world. joining us from capitol hill a member of the foreign relations committee republican senator

cory gardner of colorado. senator, thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. >> what do you think of the president's comments he would be honored to meet with kim jong-un if it would help to move things along and improve the the situation. do you think that would be a good idea, a face-to-face meetings. >> i think he said under the right conditions, if he drops the missile program, lives up to promises he made to mults pell u.s. presidents, republican and democrats, that's something he could entertain but certainly a bad idea to meet with kim jong-un before he fulfills those promises. this is a rogue regime, a madman in pyongyang, it would be unassembleable to meet with him under those conditions. >> a lot of people offended by him calling him a smart cookie, his story taking over as a young man, how difficult that would be said donald trump. one korean expert said this form of flattery may be strategic because it's something kim jong-un responds to.

what do you make generally of the rhetoric president trump has used there. >> i think most people agree kim jong-un is a whack job. this guy is willing to use and threaten his neighbor, south korea, home to 300,000 americans, to reduce japan to rubble. this is a crazed maniac at the helm of one of the world's nuclear regions, trying to become a nuclear regime. we shouldn't be in a position of flattery, be in a position to try to honor kim jong-un by bringing him into a conversation with the united states until he meets those obligations and promises. >> you sit on foreign relations with specialty in east asia with subcommittee there leading it. just boil it down, if you can, for americans watching, senator, how big a threat you believe based on what you know north korea really is. one view says this is just a whack job as you call him that can hardly get a missile test off the ground. another view says he could soon have a missile that could hit seattle. where do you fall in that situation? >> i think if you listen to

comments by admiral harris, pacific command, leading military experts, they have described the situation on the korean peninsula at its most unstable point since the end of the korean war, armistice signed in 1953. that is not a good situation. he learns from every failure he makes. he's desperately trying to place that nuclear warhead on a missile and land it in the united states. so i am afraid he would use it, try to destabilize further the position of north korea. 25 million people in missile reach, with 10,000 missiles pointed at them. a very serious situation. it's why we need a strong show of force. why we need to push china to stand up and do more. that's why we continue to build our alliance with japan and south korea. >> senator, under the topic of is there anything further we can do to enforce penalties that hurt north korea, are there chinese financial institutions

that do business with north korea and also do business globally? is there any way we can crack down on those institutions if they do exist? >> that's exactly the right question to be asking. that's the right step we need to take. there are financial institutions in china that are doing business illegally under our sanctions at least with north korea. there are businesses importing coal outside of the allowances under united nations security council resolutions and under our sanctions. many activities we could take towards china, imposing those tough sanctions to hopefully make china act as it relates to north korea. there's an article by former obama administration official who dealt with terrorist financing. he was comparing north korea sanctions to iran sanctions. in iran we sanctioned out iran. we sanctioned everything. it finally brought china and others after we sanctioned some of our financial institutions to the table when it comes to iran and it brought iran to the table. i didn't like the outcome in iran but at least brought them to the table. we should be doing the same thing in north korea.

north korea, china, far from being sanctioned out when it comes to changing the behavior of this madman in pyongyang. >> harold. >> senator, good morning, haroldford. we're all happy white house said they would fund this. what is the question we want to see in north korea? do we want to see them denuclearize? is that realistic? do we want monitors on the ground, surveillance on the ground? what ultimately second to them removing nuclear weapons, which most experts say is probably not going to happen, so what is it we want once these things happen. >> admiral harris before this happened said we don't want to bring kim jong-un to his knees, we want to bring him to his senses. this is a goal we hair. this is a bipartisan challenge in north korea. we want to make sure we have peaceful denuclearization of the north korean regime. we back the threat of south korea, back the threat of japan and of course the homeland of

the united states. there's plenty of diplomacy and diplomatic options left. deployment of missile defense in south korea is a critical part of that. we should be doing more. we should increase our activities and joint military exercise to live up to our obligation toss south korea in terms of treaty defense systems with them. but when it comes to china, china holds the keys to the kingdom here. as they say, the road to denuclearized north korea goes through beijing. we have to bear more pressure on china and make sure they are showing the world as a responsible global power what they are going to do to stop this person. >> you've really put out a lot of really clear ideas. i have to ask you, given that the president said he would be honored to meet with the leader of north korea, are you at all concerned about his clarity of thought? i mean that in all honesty and i would love an honest answer. >> like you said, i think he couched in the terms of if the circumstances were right, something like that, you'd have

to ask the president what he meant by that. i hope he would agree to the proms he made to president bush, clinton, obama before any meeting would take place. >> i know what you hoped he meant but did it concern you he said it along with all the other things he has said, let's just say in the last 48 hours, some that seems nonsensical. >> look, the united states is not going to meet with a person threatening 300,000 americans, south koreans until he lives up to his promises. >> all right. senator cory gardner, thanks. >> thank you, senator. >> even if the president is able to get moderate republicans to support the party's health care plan our next guest believes he has the votes to beat it back. house minority whip steny hoyer is next.

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at one point, it's me and michelle obama just talking. i'm not really supposed to be alone with michelle obama. that's not my lane. i don't know how to talk politics. michelle is like i don't know what we're going to do, the

country, the election and stuff. i don't know what's going to happen. this is such a crazy time. and i go, you be all right. then i said, you know, you'll get any kind of job you want. "the view," the housewives of atlanta. michelle obama looks at me and goes, i was talking about the country. i never felt so stupid in my life. >> that's funny. >> you'll be all right. >> joining us now -- >> we have democratic whip of the house. >> what a lead in. >> congressman steny hoyer. >> steny. >> steny, it's so good to talk to you. there appears to be some question whether the democrats won yesterday's budget extension or the republicans did. is it just possible maybe america won. we worked together and didn't have a government shutdown. >> joe, you took the words out

of my mouth. i don't think it's what the democrats or republicans want, the process won. congress performed as it should. we had a meeting of the leadership and appropriators that came to an agreement. obviously as you well know in the legislative process, you win some, lose some. everybody didn't get everything they wanted. that doesn't happen. i think you're right. i think the american people won, congress won, process won. we didn't have chaos. that was a good win. i think today we'll pass this agreement handily with hopefully both sides providing a majority of their votes. so i think -- you're right. the american people want it. >> that's fantastic. we have a headline, gop health bill is on shaky ground. is that what you're hearing in congress right now? >> joe, all i can tell you is the vice president has an office at the end of the hall that he

and i share. all i saw yesterday was members parading into the office, i'm sure being coaxed, trying to be convinced that the bill this they have put forward is a good bill, but i don't think they are there. i'm not sure they are going to get there. frankly, joe, as you know and everybody on the set knows, they had a slogan, repeal. they didn't have a solution. the problem they have been trying to do since the election is to try to find a solution to what they have been talking about for six years and they haven't found it. in fact, they made the bill worse. i think what's happened is millions of americans like jimmy kimmel started thinking about what does it mean to repeal the affordable care act. what does it mean to me, what does it mean to my family. i think jimmy kimmel just captured the personal consequences of repeal. billy long from missouri, a conservative republican, said

looks, one of the good things in the affordable care act was pre-existing conditions and now they have undermined that. every medical association indicates that. consumer groups say that. pre-existing conditions. >> you have members of the republican party, willie, that are saying there is no guarantee. >> that was billy long's statement, again, a conservative republican from a conservative state. >> i think ileana ross said, despite leadership saying that's the case. >> said pre-existing conditions would be taken care of and they are not. you're best guess after all this roiling about repeal and replace, all the talk, almost two years of presidential campaigning about getting rid of obamacare, at the end of the day when all this dust settled, are we left exactly where we were, say, a year ago? does obamacare remain in place as it is?

>> i think the affordable care act it's going to be largely whole. willie, you know, we have said all along, look, affordable care act is not a perfect piece of legislation that cannot be improved. we have a problem certainly in the individual market, which is about 6%. premiums are too high. there are other instances where there are not enough options available to people. we ought to be working in a constructive way, cooperative way like frankly we're going to do today on appropriations process, the omnibus. we ought to be working in that vein to make the affordable care act work better. to the extent there are constructive criticisms of that bill, we ought to address them. that's not what the republicans have been doing. hopefully we will go to that place. >> harold ford. >> hi, harold. >> building on some sort of

public option should be part of affordable care act. one, do you see democrats moving in a direction after this hoopla over ahca dies down? and two, has there been any talk from republicans wanting to support some of that to address challenges and short falls of affirm ca. >> harold, as you know, the public option was in the house bill. as you also know because the republicans thought they could defeat the affordable care act by not going to conference in the senate, we couldn't get the 60 votes to go to conference, so we took the senate bill, which did not have a public option. therefore, you don't have sort of a fall back when other insurance companies withdraw from the system that the republicans have been criticizing. i think it's a legitimate issue that's been raised we need to deal with. let me say, no republican has talked to me specifically about going to a public option. what many republicans -- i won't say 100 but a significant number of republicans have said to me privately, look, we really need to address repairing affordable

care act, fixing those items where it's not working as well as we want it to work and keeping those items which as pre-existing conditions we want, the 26-year-old, lifetime, annual limits being eliminated. clearly i think there are a number of republicans who understand, look, let's fix this thing. let's make it work right. take some of our ideas, some of your ideas and make it a better bill. >> all right. congressman steny hoyer, thank you very much. >> you bet. thanks a lot. >> and in just 15 minutes, senator elizabeth warren will be our guest right here. stay with us. >> and chris matthews what he thinks about elizabeth warren.

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incident and were sitting in their car when two other vehicles pulled up and opened fire. the officers returned fire. it's unclear if they hit anyone. one officer shot in the back, the other in the arm or hip. both in serious but stable condition. police say they are talking to multiple persons of interest. a texas police officer who fatally shot a 15-year-old as he was leaving a party has been fired according to police. the police chief in balch springs said the officer violated several departmental policies when he shot a rifle into a moving vehicle full of teenagers killing jordan edwards who was seated in the front passenger seat. police officials initially said the car was driving aggressively toward the officer prompting the officer to fire. but after viewing body camera footage, the chief said he misspoke and the video showed the vehicle was actually driving away from the officers. former south carolina police officer michael slager has pleaded guilty in the 2015

shooting death of walter scott. slager pleaded guilty to a federal judge charge of violating scott's civil rights by using excessive force, shooting him five times as he ran from a a traffic stop. the video captured on cellphone video has been viewed online millions of times. the plea comes just days before slager's federal trial was set to begin. he still faces up to life in prison. last year slager's furd trial ended in a hung jury. we have learned that the justice department does not plan to bring charges in the police shooting death of a man outside a baton rouge convenience store last year. they were investigating if police officers violated alton sterling's siefl rights when he was tackled and shot at any point blank range. at the time police say they were looking for a man matching his description who was threatening someone with a gun. they claimed sterling was armed and allegedly tried reaching for

the weapon. according to two sources familiar with the investigation prosecutors don't believe there is enough evidence to bring charges against the officers. the justice department has not officially announced its decision. and still ahead on "morning joe," president trump tries to salvage his reputation as the ultimate dealmaker. plus -- >> do you take any personal responsibility? >> of course. i take absolute personal responsibili responsibility. i was the candidate. but the reason why i believe we lost were the intervening events in the last ten days. >> when taking absolute responsibility doesn't really mean absolute responsibility as hillary clinton struggles to understand why she lost. we look ahead to the party's future. senator elizabeth warren will be our guest at the very top of the hour. we will be right back. whether it's connecting one of the world's most innovative campuses.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, may 3rd. willie's birthday. >> yay, willie. >> in just a moment we will be joined by senator elizabeth warren but first skom of the stories we're following. >> a vote could come today on a bipartisan deal to fund the government through september, a plan on which both sides agreed, but as a nare i have began to build that democrats steam rolled the white house.

president trump got defensive about it all, threatening a standoff when the money runs out in the fall. a top administration official tells nbc news the president will meet at the white house with at least two republicans who have publicly said they are opposed to the healthcare bill. congressman billy long of missouri and fred up ton of michigan. with a recess bearing down house republicans are increasingly under pressure to grind out a deal amid high profile defections in their ranks. upton's swing to a no is an ominous sign for the overhaul bringing the nbc news wip count to 21. fbi director james comey is set to go before the senate judiciary committee today. lawmakers are expected to question comey on the fbi's investigation into the relationship between associates of president trump and russia. former acting attorney general sally yates is scheduled to testify before congress next week. she is expected to clarify the warning she gave the white house about former national security

adviser michael flynn's contacts with the russian ambassador. joining us now from capitol hill, member of the democratic leadership, senator elizabeth warren of massachusetts. it's really good to have you back on the show. >> it's good to be back. >> we have a lot to talk about. you were right about a lot. i want to take a look back, though, given especially hillary clinton's comments in the past 24 hours. what do you think you and democrats might have been wrong about along the way? >> look, i mean, i think it's clear we didn't get out there and make the case as strongly as we should, not just that we will fight for working people but that we are fighting for working people. that's what we've got to do. >> and joe here, great to have you here. how do you -- and i know it had to be maddening for you to see a manhattan billionaire developer get working class voters from michigan and wisconsin, et cetera, et cetera. >> yeah. >> how do democrats begin to

translate in a way better that not only do we have the policies that fit you, we understand you culturally, we can connect with you culturally because your background suggests that you should be able to connect with those voters better than a billionaire from manhattan ever could. >> i think she does. >> how do you do that and what's been lost in translation over the past 30 years? >> so, you know, partly, joe, this is why i wrote this book that we're also going to talk about today, "this fight is our fight" and it's about a very long narrative. 1935 to 1980, coming out of the great depression. everything that happened here in washington basically was filtered through the lens of does it help working people. does it help build a middle class? does it create opportunity for young people? and it worked. we really did those things. we regulated big financial institutions, put a cop on the beat on wall street, put progressive taxation in place and then use that money to invest in education, in

infrastructure, in basic research. we built the greatest middle class on the face of the earth. we created opportunities for kids like me. here i am, i'm the daughter of a man who ended up as a janitor and i became a professor at harvard and then a united states senator. >> right. >> america built opportunities. and then 1980, ronald reagan comes in, trickle down economics, fire the cops on wall street, cut taxes for those at the top and make fewer and fewer investments in education, in infrastructure, in basic research. a slower, more sluggish economy. and what happens over time? gdp keeps going up, but 90% of america, good working people, upper middle class, middle class, working class, working poor, poor poor, everybody got shut out. and all of that income growth from 1980 to 2016 the 90%, do

you know how much of it they got? zero. 100% went to those at the top. >> right. >> and the reason -- it's not gravity, it's not international competition, it's not tech. the reason is that starting in the late '70s a handful of millionaires and ceos decided they would spend money in washington to make this government work better for themselves. >> but for 16 of those years you had democrats in the white house and so the question is bill clinton for eight years, barack obama for eight years, certainly barack obama believes the same things that you believe for the most part, right? is it just politics or is this something much bigger, that washington -- both sides have not been able to grasp? >> it's a fair question and i

think the answer -- let's put it again in a little more context. remember 1935 to 1980. >> right. >> when we really are being the middle class we also had republicans, there was dwight eisenhower, there was richard nixon who started the environmental protection agency and the consumer product safety commission. you are exactly right, we've certainly had democrats in the second time period. what i talk about in the book is how much money was overtaken washington, but i always want to be clear about this. look, democrats at least have been out there fighting. we fought to reduce the interest rates on student loans, we fought to try to get universal healthcare coverage, we're fighting now against drug companies charging people the exorbitant prices that they do. we are the ones fighting to expand social security. so the whole country has moved because of decisions made here in washington, but i've got to

say at least democrats are fighting on the right side. we haven't been as effective as we should, we haven't gotten the votes we should, we haven't gotten out to the people in way we should but by golly that is the core of what it means to be a democrat. >> you've written "this fight is our fight" and it actually has been yours for decades. it goes back to your graduate school thesis, to your interest in bankruptcy and the rising numbers of bankruptcy, who it happens to and why. this became something you were not only fascinated with but something you wanted to solve. you created the consumer financial protection bureau. i'm curious as we look forward was the campaign of hillary clinton open to your ideas since you are so connected with this? >> you know, it's a -- it's a good question, mika. i will describe it this way, i don't wait for people to be open to me, i just keep throwing the

ideas out there as often and as hard and as fast as i can. >> did they catch? >> every chance i got i stood up and i talked about these issues and because i think that's what we have to talk about. and i think that -- i truly do believe now this transcends party. i believe in my party, i think we fight on the right side, but it transcends party. we've got to reach out, working people, we have to take our government back. this book ends on what's actually a very hopeful note. it's about getting in the fight and how democracy makes a difference. you know, and think of the example just today that how many times over the past seven years have the republicans in the house voted to repeal obamacare? 60 plus times. how many times did donald trump say on day one we will repeal obamacare, it will be gone.

you could run the video clips. the senate is ready to go. so why didn't it happen on day one? and the answer is because in my view it's because we got engaged. people got engaged. after donald trump was elected instead of just laying back and saying, well, dang, you know, that's what happened. we said, no, they can't repeal and run, they've got to repeal and replace, and kept up that push, that push. people showed up at town halls and made phone calls and signed e-mails and tweeted about it. people showed up and the consequence of that is the republicans who are ready to throw the thing right out the window and leave the rest of us holding a begging bowl saying, geez, would you please give us just a little bit of healthcare. instead of that they had to put their plan out there and when people saw it and people engaged

around this country the republicans backed up. they can't get the votes among themselves. we still don't have enough democratic votes to stop it in the house or the senate, but what we have is we have millions of people across this country who are in the fight and getting in the fight is what's crucial right this minute. >> right. >> that's why i wrote this book. >> mike. >> senator, there seems to be one fight that is more shadow boxing than real fighting and it has to do with the financial institution that affects more lives than any wall street institution does, it affects your life, your home, your car and now your health. >> yes. >> these large insurance conglomerates who seemingly dictate what is going on with healthcare legislation in this country and yet you hear very little verbiage, fighting verbiage, from people, your colleagues in washington, d.c.

about the role, the powerful role, that insurance companies play in our lives. >> yeah, i think you're exactly right about this, joe, and no better place does that show up than simply with the price that people are paying for health insurance. you know, you see it every day. and that the insurance companies are hanging right there, making sure that they still make their profits. >> did barack obama give away too much to the insurance companies? >> look, i don't want to go backwards on the plan. the request he is what should we do going forward, and the answer is i think we ought to be asking a lot more from the insurance companies. if they want to stay in such a central position in providing healthcare across america, then they have to be more responsive to the american people and we've got to get those costs down. we have got to get those costs down. >> senator, it's willie geist. great to have you on this

morning. >> hi, willie. >> hi. i want to sku about the response from the democratic party to hillary clinton's loss in november, a surprise loss for most people inside the party. there seemed to be two different schools of thought on how the party should proceed, one says let's go farther left, let's dig in deeper in who we are in our progressive values and others who say we need to be more moderate and win back some of those voters who voted for barack obama but flipped their votes and voted for donald trump, people in states like wisconsin and pennsylvania and michigan. where do you fall on that spectrum? do you believe the next presidential candidate should be more progressive than hillary clinton was or be a little more moderate than she was? >> willie, look, i am a proud progressive so that part is easy for me. let me say on this i actually think that's the wrong frame. i think the old progressive, moderate, left, right just doesn't describe much of where america is anymore. think about the core economic issues, the things that touch

families every single day. think about where most of america is. letting students get an education without getting crushed by student loan debt, lowering the cost of prescription drugs, expanding social security, raising the minimum wage, more regulation not less for giant financial institutions. on these core economic issues americans support them by about two to one and that means everybody, not just democrats, it's democrats, republicans, independents, libertarians, vegetarians by about two to one americans support how it is that we build a future, and the way i look at that, that is the progressive agenda. in other words, the progressive agenda is america's agenda.

what we need to do as a party is we need to get out there and fight for it. we need to show me what it is we're fighting for, why we're fighting and that we really are committed to making a change to make washington once again not just work for the top 10%, to make washington once again work for everybody else. >> so if that is the winning philosophy, senator, it sounds to me like it is your philosophy, everything you just laid out there, all things you believe in, there are an awful lot of people in this country who would like to see you run for president in a couple of years. is that something that interests you? >> willie, what i'm -- no. >> it doesn't interest you? >> what i'm worried about right now -- look, i'm in my senate race, i'm up for reelection in 2018, i'm going to run, i'm all in on that. but here is the deal, willie, i'm worried about what donald trump is going to do between right now and the time i go to bed tonight. i'm worried about what he's going to do between the time i go to bed tonight and the time i

wake up tomorrow morning, what will he do at 3:00 a.m. on twitter? we have to be in this fight urgently right now. i totally get why people want to talk about 2020 and what are we going to do, but that's way down the line. donald trump has barely completed 100 days and it's not just what he says it's the things he is doing to working people. that he's making it okay for, you know -- easier for corporations that kill and maim their employees to hide that fact, making it easier for federal contractors to steal employees' wages, making it easier for investment advisors to cheat retirees. we've got to stay on what donald trump -- not what he says, what donald trump is doing right now. >> senator, forgive the interruption, senator. >> sure. i'm sorry. >> it's not a 20/20 parlor game for a lot of people. a lot of people say you are precisely the person who could stop donald trump for doing

these things. is that something as it comes up to be of interest to you to run for president? >> willie, what we have to do is we can't wait four years to stop donald trump. >> right. >> but, no, it's an important point, willie. democracy works if we engage in the fights right now. the reason that the republicans and donald trump have not replaced obamacare with trump care is because people around this country have gotten engaged. engagement is critical and it's engagement not in a distant election, it's engagement in today's fight. that's what we've got to keep our focus on and, boy, you better believe i am in that fight all the way. >> let me ask you about that fight, though, day to day when you say you worry about this president is going to do in the next few hours because that's something we've been talking about in the past 24 hours on this show. each yesterday we kind of put is out there the last 48 hours for him he had some really incoherent statements and

disturbing statements. are you at all worried about his clarity of thought and his ability to do the job literally at this moment? >> of course i'm worried. i just look at the evidence that comes out. just like you do. but, again, i try to stay focused. what is he advancing? and here is why, mika, because it's not just what donald trump is saying and doing, it's the republicans in the house and the senate and what together they are doing to this country. yeah, i worry a lot about donald trump, i really worry about donald trump, but i worry about all of the levers of government right now because the republicans control all of them. if house and senate republicans were willing to act as a check on donald trump, we would be in a different world. >> right. >> but instead right now they're

rolling back one regulation after another, they're doing everything they can once again to advance the interests of giant financial institutions, of the biggest and most powerful in this country. >> yeah. >> and at the middle class, you know, here is what i talk about, you were right, mika, this one is personal for me. this is how i grew up. i am deeply grateful to an america that built opportunities for me and in this book i talk about the stories, about what it's like to be a young person today, about kye who is a lot like i was only the difference now for her is she's 27 years old, wasn't able to finish her diploma and she has $100,000 of student loan debt. i talk about people like michael who just busted his tail all his life and then the 2008 crisis hits and he not only loses his job, he loses his house.

he describes that crash as it broke my heart. and here is washington, continuing to work for those at the top. continuing to work for those who have money. and it's not just money for campaign contributions and money for lobbyists, it's money everywhere. it's bought and paid for experts, it's so-called think tanks funded by shadowy groups. it's about -- it's about money that doesn't advertising and effects the coverage of the news. it's about how money affects the united states supreme court. our whole democracy is at risk and donald trump right now along with the republicans, they are poised to deliver a knockout blow to working families. our only chance is to fight back and it's going to take all of us to do it. >> really quick question. >> sure. >> you had said that republicans controlled all levers of power.

of course we are all obsessed with how donald trump won, everybody wants to talk about how did this guy get elected president and say what happened here, what happened there, but the more interesting question is why do republicans control all levers of power? why have democrats lost, what, 12, 14 senate seats in six years, 12, 14 governor ships over the past six years. it's not like republicans have done anything other than basically rechurn ronald reagan's 1980 campaign theme. it's not like people are going, oh, my god, the republicans want to take us in a new direction. the very things that you're saying the republicans are doing right now are basically the things that republicans have been promising to do, cut regulations, cut this, cut that. so i guess the last question goes back to my first question to you which is what are the democrats missing?

why are these people voting for a party overwhelmingly over the past six years and putting them in power? why do republicans have all the levers of power right now when people knew exactly what they were going to do when they got into power and most importantly how do democrats reverse that -- that equation? >> so, look, i -- we have to take full responsibility for this. if democrats are fighting for america's working families then it is up to us to make that clear. and if we are not fighting loud enough and we are not fighting hard enough and we are not fighting so that people can see it, then shame on us. and if we're not fighting then people have no reason to put faith in us. so the way i see this is we just have to get back in the fight. we have to live our values every single day. and it's not just enough to attack donald trump. we have to show what we stand

for and we have to be willing to put it out there. everybody can describe what it means to be a republican. it ought to be the case that everybody can describe what it means to be a democrat and for me that means to be on the team that's really out there trying to build opportunity. not just for those at the top, but trying to build opportunity for all of our kids. that's why i believe that this fight is our fight. >> that's the name of the book, the book is "this fight is our fight, the battle to save america's middle class." senator elizabeth warren thank you so much for being on the show. great to see you great. >> great to have you on. >> still ahead on "morning joe" new developments this morning on the president's continued bid to pass healthcare reform. we will get live reports from the white house and capitol hill. and msnbc's steve kornacki joins the discussion. >> i hope he doesn't scream again. >> who? >> kornacki. he was out in the hall -- >> why was he so mad?

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our bill protects people with preexisting conditions and it actually provides multiple layers of protection for people with preexisting conditions in ways that obamacare doesn't do. >> the white house and republican leaders scrambling this morning trying to get the latest version of obamacare repeal over the finish line. joining us now from capitol hill nbc's mike viqueira and kristen welker. kristen let's begin with you. what is the trump administration doing to try to woo any republican hold jouts on this bill and do they think there will be a vote tomorrow. >> reporter: they're hoping for that and the head line this morning is that the president is ramping up his engagement in this fight. i am told according to one of my sources that he was working the phones overnight. i asked how many lawmakers did he specifically speak to and the

response was they don't want to put a specific number on t but a lot. and we know this morning he has invited two house republicans who are currently opposed to the latest version of this plan to the white house, representatives billy long and fred upton of missouri and michigan respectively. so what's the big sticking point? the big sticking point has to do with coverage of preexisting conditions. there is concern that this current version of the bill would allow prices to be hiked up for those living with preexisting conditions, that they could be priced out of getting insurance. that is going to be at the forefront here today. we know that that is one of the big concerns for long and upton. if you look at the vote count willie according to our latest numbers they have secured 22 votes -- i should say 21 and they can afford to lose 22. so there is concern that this is really on the brink of collapsing because you have those 21 no votes.

so, again, we anticipate the president is just going to ramp up his engagement and it really represents a shift here at the white house because the president has kind of been letting the vice president and his top officials take the lead, now he's engaging on a whole new level, willie. >> 21 no's and a bunch of undecided still. let's swing over to capitol hill. vic, welcome home. >> thanks, willie. great to be here. >> can paul ryan cobble together the votes to get -- first of all, just to get a vote tomorrow. >> if they had the votes we wouldn't be talk being it right now beyond the floor, they would be debating it and the jet fumes wafting across the pot mick river taking members back to their districts for another recess next week. they simply don't have the votes. these whip counts are nebulous, the whip team led by steve scalise they don't have a firm

grip on this. the white house has decided to do this the old fashioned way and inviting fred upton a very high profile defector yesterday, he does come from a relatively moderate district but he was the chairman of the energy and commerce committee, instrumental in how many different obamacare repeals were passed during the obama administration. so when he jumps ship they know they have a problem, same with billy long, we talked about him yesterday from a safe republican district centered around springfield, missouri. so they're bringing them up to the white house, there is going to be some arm twisting and apparently back room dealing of the find kind that has infuriated many in the past particularly on the conservative side. fred upton is talking about an $8 billion addition to a fund that would help those who lose their coverage because they have preexisting conditions who would lose their coverage as a result of this compromise they're talking about in the house now. >> nbc's mike viqueira, great to see you. appriate let's bring in nbc anchor

and political correspondent steve kornacki. >> haven't we already done this? this sounds just like what happened two times before. >> and it is that balancing act. you're seeing t the moderates now there's not enough there for fred upton, not enough for the moderates, they're worried about those swing districts in 2018 having to face the voters. now do they do a last minute addition to bring them on board and if you do that then that balancing act does the house freedom caucus which just came on board in the last week with the other compromise do you start losing them? do you add five members over here and lose five members over here and you are still in the same place. >> a lot of undecideds. >> a lot of undecideds. the areas where there perhaps could be some change are the areas that are sticking points around preexisting conditions, medicaid expansion, there are a lot of republican congressmen and senators who like that in their states. what could the white house, what could paul ryan change to keep that -- as you say it's a zero

sum game but to keep that faction together. >> what you heard from mike viqueira was the idea of adding money to the high risk pool. the idea that these people with preexisting conditions, yes, under this bill they would be guaranteed coverage but then there is the risk and you hear these republicans who are no votes right now saying one of the biggest concerns they have is are the premiums going to skyrocket for those folks under this plan. with the number i just heard mike mention there. $8 billion. if you add $8 billion to the high risk pool, to the high risk fund that could absorb the potentially higher premiums but who is going to not like $8 billion being added? the house freedom caucus. that could make them nervous. they had a different deal that was struck. if you bring the moderates on board with 8 billion bucks in high risk pools do you lose the freedom caucus? again it's just -- they are right at the number right now that they can afford to lose and still pass this thing. so, yeah, you could gain a few here, you could lose a bunch over here and that's where they were a couple weeks ago. >> we had elizabeth warren on over the past 20 minutes or so.

is she the future of the democratic party? >> i mean, the way i look at it right now is there are three big names if you're trying to head to 2020 there's three big names that loom over the rest and it's obviously the widest field ever but you have to put sanders in that mix because he ran last night, 7 million votes and a lot of his supporters say if you nominated him you would have won. i think you've got to put biden there, former vice president up in new hampshire, he is a little up there in years but a lot of people think if he was the nominee he would have won and elizabeth warren is the third name there because a lot of people think her message is the message that could win over a pennsylvania, a michigan, a wisconsin, but i do think the elizabeth warren maybe that you saw in that interview a few minutes ago i think there is an issue when you think back to 2011, 2012, the elizabeth warren who came to national prominence back then, i think she might have communicated a little differently back then. >> in what way? >> i think she sounds more like -- in some ways, i think

what we were seeing in your interview it sounded that way to me, a more of a washington figure now, somebody who is more sort of has the democratic party's message and she's going to go out there and repeat the message. i think the elizabeth warren you saw in 2011 and 2012 was more just elizabeth warren, here is what i believe in, here is what i'm saying. i think now there is a risk sometimes she comes across more like sort of elizabeth warren democratic party establishment figure. >> these house members decide what they're going to do in voting. i've been talking about the dangers of them having an unpopular bill wrapped around their next as they go towards 2018. how are things looking for the 2018 campaign right now? i know it's very early, but the generic ballot is always something to look at, a good leading indicator. how are things looking for house democrats? >> i mean, house democrats obviously are very optimistic because just historically this is the combination, when you're totally locked out the midterm is usually good to your party

but there is a particular type of district that house dems are focusing on right now that's the district where you have a republican incumbent and hillary clinton who won the district last november. >> how many districts are there? >> there's 24 of those -- 23 of those districts. >> a lot higher number than a lot of people would expect. >> yeah, the characteristics you generally see those tend to be more suburben, white coal particular professional. >> california, new york. >> new jersey. we talked about that college/non-college divide. trump did historically incredible for republican among non-college whites, he also struggled with college educated whites. it's that type of district and i think those are when you talk about these moderate republicans who are getting queasy about voting for this healthcare plan a lot of them are from districts that are like that that hillary clinton won or where hillary clinton came close. >> we have to go. so if democrats win those districts back, those 23 districts that hillary clinton won, how many short are they? >> that basically puts them at

the number. you are one off just with those districts. >> you win hillary's districts you are one away from nancy pelosi being speaker. >> here is the twist, though, there are nine democrats in trump districts. rust belt democrats, high non-college educated whites. that's the flip side of that. college educated white, those districts could get you pretty close. >> nobody breaks it down like kornacki. >> nobody. >> that's why we put up why do you put up with him in the clubhouse? he's throwing bats and helmets. this is why. >> you can put up with the temper. >> i appreciate you guys doing that. >> like barry bonds, he is so good you just deal with him. >> he is the bonds. he really is the bonds. >> so good you put up with a lot. >> thank you, steve. coming up next, three u.s. service members are recovering after another suicide bombing in afghanistan overnight. isis claimed responsibility at a time when the u.s. is still struggling to beat back the taliban. ben anderson is taking a special look at the taliban resurgence

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> . [ speaking foreign language ] >> he has training?

>> yeah. [ speaking foreign language ] wow. that was a clip from vice news' upcoming special taliban resurgence. joining us now correspondent and senior producer of vice news ben anderson. also along with us alley sufan he is chairman and ceo of the sufan group and out with a new book anatomy of terror. gentlemen, good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> ben, let me start with you. an amazing piece of work there. you were just saying you've been going over to afghanistan covering it on the ground for about ten years and things are as bad as you've ever seen them in that decade. i think that would surprise a lot of people.

>> and out of those places the americans and brits fought so hard for have all fallen back into the taliban's hands. >> why. >> >> the whole bases was handing over to the afghan security forces who were ready to defeat the taliban on their own and they were nowhere aware. desertion, defection, casualty rates are unsustainably high. it's surprising more places haven't fallen. they launched their spring offensive with the biggest attack and i think this summer will be extremely bad there. >> we're just staying there and as long as we stay there we may be able to hold things together. >> prevent absolute catastrophe. >> but the second we leave it still goes up in flames. >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, 300 marines just landed there, more special forces are going to go there, all they can do is prevent the collapse of major population centers. they can't do any more than

that. >> ali, a war we've been fighting right now since 2001, 16 years. >> yeah. >> some kids over there that were two years old when this war began. we went over there to wipe out al qaeda and yet you say al qaeda is stronger today in your book than it was the day bin laden was killed. >> exactly like the taliban, the two entities that we destroyed or we thought we destroyed in the aftermath of 9/11 mutated. they became a message, they became ideology. we're still fighting organization, but it's actually an ideology that we have to guy. if you look today at kauld with some of bin laden we had 400 pledged members of al qaeda on the eve of 9/11, today al qaeda in syria alone have 20,000. al qaeda in yemen went from less than 1,000 before the saudi war in yemen to more than 4,000 to 5,000 today. al qaeda in the arabian peninsula -- sorry islamic motherhood, because of libya

they have been able to recreate a significant come back in the region. if you look at the j.i., for example, in southeast asia around the bali bombing they had 31 radicals where they take these five, six-year-old kids and brain wash them and they become terrorists later on. now they have 60 sects. so al qaeda has taken advantage, being very smart, taken advantage of this shiny on the that is isis and building its network, creating alliances, local alliances, taking advantage of the conflict zones that exist in places like yemen and somalia and syria and libya and building significant network. >> and you write in the book and you've been talking about this as well is that you see eventually and maybe it's begun already isis and al qaeda who share some overlap in ideology and world view working together. what does that look like? >> isis and al qaeda are not

different idealogically at all. remember, isis used to be the islamic state in iraq and isis came out of the poisonous tree of al qaeda. so there is a possibility when isis go the full cycle, you know, they went through, you know, a cycle of a terrorist organization, then they became an insurgency, then state and with all their bravado they are going back to being a underground terror organization. if there is no caliphate many of the members might go back to al qaeda and al qaeda is planning to play their trump card in this which is bin laden's son. so bin laden's son can be a unifying figure for the unifying jihadi movement down the road. >> it looks like the russians based on your reporting and other reporting may be paying us back for what we started in 1979 in afghanistan. >> yeah. >> how involved are they? >> i haven't seen evidence of direct involvement but lots of

intelligence officials are claiming and it is consistent with everything else we're seeing is that the russians are enjoying putting a middle if i think you are up to us. the legacy of iraq and afghanistan is they know we can't do a full scale intervention, the moab in afghanistan are not precursors of things to come. they are enjoying the power they have over the west right now. >> what's the mindset of the american soldier, the american marine right now. >> the 300 marines that have been sent here over half have been to helmand already and i'm sure they know what they're going to be facing. they are not going to be getting in fire fights with the taliban, in terms of training the afghan security forces they know the extreme limitations they are up against. >> given those limitations, ali, is there an american policy, a different policy, a shift, a change of some kind that could prevent that you're seeing which is this merger between isis and al qaeda? is there something else america could be doing? >> we can do a lot. unfortunately with he focus our

tactics to the military ones, but we have to diversify and start focusing also on diplomatic initiative as part of counterterrorism. the number one incubating factor to extremism to the taliban or to al qaeda basically is what you see today, the conflicts that's going on and conflict zones, the vacuum that exists, the geopolitical vacuum, the battle between regional, state, and using sectarianism to score points against each other in the middle east. it benefits extremists, it benefits terrorists and i think this will be the first to stop in targeting the message and narrative. yesterday six years ago we killed bin laden. we killed a messenger but the message lives. >> all right. thank you both. taliban resurgence airs this friday at 11:00 on hbo and alley's book is "anatomy of terror from the death of bin

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we can be cutting this ribbon within two months. >> when you heard in the last 48 hours about the deal, did you think we could build this. >> and i said that's why you are no longer president. two weeks. >> we're going to build a wall. it's going to be built. it's not even a difficult thing to do. >> let's do it in two weeks. he hey. >> i'm sorry. i'm sorry. can we stop the music. >> is it a replacement for existing wall? yeah, that's fine. is it new wall? no. >> i'm not as optimistic that we can get that done. >> this is what's out there right now, okay, and this is what's going to be put in as a result of this bill. >> do you have a business model? >> i am so happy that you asked me that, michael. because i just happen to have a business model right here.

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when liberty stands with you™. liberty stands with you™ liberty mutual insurance joining us now, co-creator and executive producer of showtime's "the circus," mark mckinnon, also a former advisor to president george w. bush. also author, columnist for "the new york daily news" mike lupica and cnbc's dom chu. >> we have an answer here for the democrats, sally yates. >> you're not kidding about that? >> i'm not. southern, tough on crime, prosecutor, took on trump, got fired. man, it's a great mix. >> where's she out of? >> georgia. i worked for her husband about 15 years ago. he ran for congress, lost. but the whole time i kept

thinking she should be the candidate. >> she'll be testifying on monday, she'll have a great showcase there as well. >> the democrats, i asked elizabeth warren, what do the democrats need to do to turn it around. lost 1,000 legislative house seats over the past six years. >> we've been talking about this in the hall. somehow between now and 2020 they have to find from the middle of the country a young, populist democrat. and the only problem with that is we have no idea who that is. >> but the party is -- i mean the party is pulling left just like -- well, just like labor. listen, they selected jeremy corbin when they knew that would be a disaster, and now they're lining -- they have a historic loss. >> clawed their way to the bottom. exactly. >> joe, i really like and respect elizabeth warren, okay, but that message is not going to play with the voters who lost

the democrats the white house. >> but that's where the party is energized right now. >> there's something in her message and bernie sanders message that would appeal to them? it is a populist economic message and it is against the banks and the people who have screwed you for 40 years. >> yes. >> shouldn't that resonate? >> it should resonate. i think somebody like warren would win the primary and lose the general. >> dom, help me out here as far as the economy goes. we've got the first quarter numbers, didn't look good. what, 0.7, something like that. >> it's always weak in the first quarter. >> it's always weak in the first quarter. how's the economy doing right now? >> so there's this huge debate. and it grapples a lot of wall street and even main street. it's this idea that there's a divergence, a separation between soft economic data and hard economic data. right now consumer confidence is at these multi-year highs, like 17 year highs for the university of michigan sentiment indicator.

meanwhile you've got things like maybe housing numbers, gdp, economic activity, other hard economic data, jobs numbers that may not be as bullish on the overall economy. >> are americans spending money? they're confident. are they spending? >> so they are spending on certain things. one of the things that they're not spending as much on that's a bit of a concern, especially yesterday and today, is on automobiles. we've had just record numbers of sales of autos. it's helped put a lot of people to work. it's helped really a lot of these auto companies come back from the financial crisis. but there's a concern that we've hit peak auto sales. we're selling about 17 million autos a year. trucks, light trucks, cars. and we have been over the last couple of years. but does that now mean people have spent their ammunition, their money. >> is that seen as a leading indicator? >> it could be. but the bigger concern right now is whether or not that means jobs start to go away. we've made a lot of conversations here about the idea that we want to keep

american jobs, especially in the auto industry. we talk about nafta, we talk about trade packts. >> you know what most successful presidents inherit? a bad economy. think about it. obama, clinton. >> bill clinton's timing was absolutely perfect. the economy started to turn around like the night after george h.w. bush lost. you look at the fourth quarter and the first, he did. but the one thing that nobody has been able to put their arms around is how do we turn around trends that have been set in motion, mike, since 1973. i remember being a young kid up in upstate new york and driving past, i think it was penndax. where did they go? oh, they moved to japan. that was in '73. we always talk about the stat that jeffrey says, average wages for working americans have been in decline in real terms

consistently since 1973. >> joe, we know how he got elected, okay? over the first 102 or 103 days, all of those people have to be at this point saying, okay, everything you promised, when does it start coming our way? what has he done yet that speaks to the people who dragged him across the finish line? >> and i wonder, willie, if the greatest danger is he's exposed not by the press, not by cnn, not by nbc, not by -- he's exposed by not being able to pass anything through a republican house and republican senate, and that's when his supporters say, wait a second, he can't even pass anything through his own house. >> although it wasn't a clean victory for him, he should have touted this budget deal. he sent mick mulvaney out. >> he went completely under the radar, didn't leverage it. >> you've been through this before with president bush, mark, when a new president comes

into the white house. there have been i don't know how many in a row that have said they're going to change washington, change the way business is done. particularly in donald trump's case he was used to getting things his way and doing the way he wanted to do. he's been met by the congress in many cases, also by the courts in a couple of cases. what do you think he learns to make him better over the next 100 days. >> you learn you've got to do something different to win and he likes to win. so the plan a hasn't worked so he better go to plan b. the problem for him is that by leading with health care and saying he don't need democrats, the democrats are taking the position why ever give him anything. >> i asked elizabeth warren this question. why have democrats been losing so much over the last six years? we all look at trump. that's the big shiny object. >> also the legislatures as you point out since warren g. harding. >> you know what i think it is? i think it's complacency. i think they all thought they were going to get carried along by the roar of the crowd because

of barack obama. and you've talked about this for months. they stopped talking to the people who cost them the election. now it's like turning a battleship around. and the problem is they have got a guy in the white house right now who starts to act like, you know, professor harold hill in "the music man." >> dom, what are you looking at today on wall street? >> the biggest story on the corporate front today is going to be apple. they made more money than they thought they were going to. >> i thought sales were down. >> iphone sales. i have two of them, church and state, work and personal. >> willie and i don't believe in that. we have everything here, work, state, bookies. >> it's going to haunt us some day. >> also some really good lawyers in turkey. if you ever find yourself in jail there, let us know. >> i'm supposed to feel bad because i only have one phone? >> here's the issue. two-thirds of their sales come from iphones. it's not ipads, or macs or anything else. on the political side, these

guys have around $240 billion in cash and investments stashed all over the place. they can buy walmart with that kind of money. what are they going to do with it? do they get a tax break to bring it back here? who knows. >> that would be something. all right. that does it for us this morning. thanks so much for watching. as always, we thank you for your patience. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. stephanie, what are you looking at? >> thank you so much, joe. i'm saying happy birthday to willie geist. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. we have a lot to cover. james comey speaking out. the fbi director testifies before congress in the next hour. this guy is thrust back into the center of last year's election. >> i was on the way to winning until a combination of jim comey's letter on october 28th and russian wikileaks. and the president fires back overnight. while just two votes, that's right, the razo