>> yeah. theru go. anyway, thank you for watching. ro will never be back. see you back here form night, 6:00 p.m. eastern. if you can't watch live, set your dvr. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. to your health. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. well, the images tell the story today. a celebration this afternoon in the rose garden, and anger tonight on the streets of new york. we're following two big stories. the president and house republicans celebrate the passage with a single vote to spare on a bill to repeal obamacare today. it still must make it through the senate, a much harder prospect. but late today, republicans were bused down to the white house and gathered in the rose garden, cheering president trump and

calling today's vote a major victory. for his part, president trump called the bill something very, very incredibly well crafted. let's watch. >> i went through two years of campaigning, and i'm telling you no matter where i went, people were suffering so badly with the ravages of obamacare. as far as i'm concerned, your premiums, they're going to start to come down. we're going to get this passed through the senate. i feel so confident. this is, make no mistake, this is a repeal and a replace of obamacare. make no mistake about it. coming from a different world and only being a politician for a short period of time -- how am i doing? am i doing okay? i'm president. hey, i'm president. can you believe it, right? >> do you believe it? that's an amazing statement. anyway, the house passed the so-called american health care act by a vote of 217-213. it took 216. they didn't waste any votes on

this. moments afterwds, house democrats began chanting this warning. this is on the floor of the house to replicans ♪ hey, hey, hey, good-bye >> the scene was reminiscent of another vote when the tie-breaking vote was cast for bill clinton's budget bill. republicans waved and chatted at her. nancy pelosi told reporters the american people will now render their verdict on republicans who voted for this bill. >> so today with heartfelt -- >> can you believe it, right? >> they are. we're going to see that work through. >> but i want to thank you on behalf of the most critical

number. >> states directly getting involved because every meeting we had with members that wanted to get additional -- >> that's wrong. anyway, that was supposed to be nancy pelosi. that was the republicans in the rose garden, more of trump there. anyway, republicans in the house voted today before the congressional budget office even scored the legislation's cost, which is important. anyway, in a number of key organizations including the aarp and the american medical association declared their opposition to the bill that passed, adding to the challenge of course it will face in the senate. meanwhile, the president returned to new york city today for the first time since he was inaugurat inaugurated. we're expecting him to deliver remarks within the hour. nbc's steanie goss joins me now from the streets of the west side near the intrepid. how does it look up there, stephanie? >> reporter: hey, chris, the presidential convoy just went into the intrepid. this crowd, although not that big, got very loud. we're in the hundreds here, probably started around a thousand. you know, i've been covering a

lot of these demonstrations, really starting since the women's march the day after inauguration. that day, the people that i spoke with -- a lot of them had never been to any kind of protest before. that has changed. there is something of a protester class right now in new york city. almost every weekend, there is some vevent. i want to introduce you to some people who i met earlier today. blair, i'm going to start with you. why did you come out here today? >> i've been to several protests as a lot of us have. it started with the women's march in washington, and i absolutely had to be here today because this is the city i've been a resident of for the past 15 years. i grew up in new jersey, and i live here now. this is a president and an administration who are making a national embarrassment of us. >> let me ask you this. this is the first day that president trump has come back to new york since the inauguration. did that have some impact on showing up today? >> absolutely. there was no way to miss it. that's absolutely right. >> let me ask you, kristen, what

motivated you to come out here today? >>le with, i feel like we're living in a nightmare where everyone's rights are getting taken away. it didn't help that today they passed the aca repeal. i rely on that very much, and it's the best health care that i've ever had for the least amount of money. so it just -- >> we heard a number of supporters of the bill come out today and say that the aca has put a lot of people's health care in jeopardy, that they can't afford it. it is one of these cases where it depends on who you talk to. how does it leave you today knowing that there's a potential that the aca could be repealed in the upcoming days? >> it's really scary. you just don't know what's going to happen, and you could be bankrupt for getting sick. you just don't know. >> dave, let me ask you quickly, what is the most important issue for you today to be out here? >> i'm a father of an 11-year-old daughter, and i just think that this man does not represent anything that has to do with women's rights or

women's equality in the world or in america. and my daughter cannot have that happen in her future. so i'm fighting for her. >> reporter: so, chris, there's a smattering of what we've been hearing today and in the last two months really since the inauguration. back to you. >> thank you very much, nbc's stephanie goss. we'll be back to check in later as the president makes his arrival. now to the house vote to repeal obamacare. i'm joined by steve ratner, an check adviser to president obama. thank you for joining us. congressman, what does this mean, this vote? i notice tha repubcans squeaked it today. ey only had one extra vote. obviously there's 20 republicans didn't want to vote for it and a lot more would like to have not voted for it. you had did you see it as a political move today? >> as a doctor, a lot of them knew this was a bad bill that was going to hurt patients and constituents. there was a lot of arm twisting going on.

this was a bad vote. again, it's going to hurt a lot of patients. >> when you're down on the floor, can you tell the pressure on republicans to get up to the 217? >> yeah, they didn't have that look of enthusiasm on their face, particularly throughout this week as you saw them kind of twist arms and whip the vote here. so, again, i think a lot of them know this was a very difficult vote that's going to hurt a lot of their own constituents. >> let me go to steve. steve, i understand you've got a really good analysis of who the winners and losers are to put it bluntly under this bill. >> i don't think there are a lot of winners. i think there are a fair number of losers. first of all, let's go back to the original bill, which included massive cuts in medicaid, massive cuts in subsidies for people who are above the medicaid level but not really able to pay for themselves, and then the new bill added to that the ability of states to get out of the ten basic requirements as well as to get out of the requirement that insurers charge people with pre-existing conditions the same as people without them. so i can't think of many

winners. there are a lot of losers. >> here's a chart put out by the center for american progre, a progressive think tank. it shows how much more a year some with certai pre-conditions, existing conditions, might have to pay compared to a healthy 40-year-old person. for example, someone with metastatic cancer would pay more than $140,000 a year. some with depression would pay an extra $8,500. someone with asthma would pay more than $4,000 more. i think diabetes is about $5,000, which matters to me. these are real differences. in other words, they've been throwing those people into a high risk pool where they'd have to pay a lot more. >> yeah, and we've tried high risk pools before and they never work. what ends up happening is folks can't get the health care they need. they end up on waiting lists. how do you tell someone with cancer, oh, you've got to go on a waiting list? that's why we took the approach we did with the affordable care act, guaranteeing coverage. this is going to take health care away or make it unaffordable for millions of americans. >> this idea that for

$8 billion -- it seems a lot of money, but it's over five years, which is $1.5 billion a year. they say -- i think it is a band-aid on this bill. so a week ago or two weeks ago, this bill would never pass. they put the band-aid on it and said we're going to have this subsidy. we're going to write a check from the federal government to cover those people, but nobody believes the $1.5 billion a year will cover all the people in this country's health insurance costs, medicines, pills, doctors, hospitalization. all of that is going to be covered for about $1.5 billion a year. nobody believes that. >> i don't know any health care expert or economist that believ that. that's a drop in the bucket for what's needed, and i bet steve would agree with that. >> let's go along with that number because it looked to me as a palliative as a doctor might say. >> it's submitted it would cost anywhere from $200 billion to $330 billion to provide these high-risk pools that are

adequate to cover everybody. the house bill included before the $8 billion, included $130 billion toward a variety of things, thanning one of them. then $8 billion was added. the point is they're up to $200 billion short of what would be needed to make sure everybody in the high-risk category with the pre-existing conditions got coverage. so the $8 billion, as you surmised, is a complete drop in the bucket. >> i could tell that because i saw the analysis of what had been spent before to cover these high risk patients. the bill is sure to face a tougher challenge when it heads to the senate. senator lindsey graham tweeted today, a bill, finalized yesterday, has not been scored. amendments not allowed. three hours final debate. should be viewed with caution. here's senator bob corker this morning. >> is there any chance if it passes the house today, is there any chance for an up or down vote in the senate on the bill as written to get it quickly passed and move quickly past the issue for republicans? >> no. >> zero?

>> it's just that's not the way it's going to work. people are going to want to improve it. i don't see any way that it goes back in the form that it comes. >> well, you know, congressman, here's the problem if you're a republican at the white house, one of these lobbyists trying to get this through. you know you passed this with one vote to spear. you had to beg the freedom caucus people. you had to take the moderate republicans from a lot of vulnerable seats in pennsylvania like barlet who was going to run against bob casey for the senate. a lot of these guys face real problems, so you squeeze them. now having said to them, this is as bad as it's going to get, you take it over to the senate. the senate is much less right wing. the bill comes back and you got to make them swallow more crap basically. this is going to be a hard vote to get through. >> absolutely. you know, as you saw, it's going to have ramifications in 2018. i mean -- >> if it passes. >> if it passes. >> what happens if your colleagues who are republicans get stranded having voted for a bill that doesn't go anywhere? >> well, they voted for a bill

so we know where their priorities are. everybody has patients in their districts. this has taken health care away from millions of folks. in california, there's vulnerable democrats that have over 100,000 folks that could lose health care coverage. how do you go back home and explain that? if they thought town halls were pretty heated before, wait until you go home next week. >> thank you so much. great to have you on. thank you for joining us. coming up, much more on the politics of today's vote. what lies ahead for those republicans who voted today? i think they signed a problem for themselves with that health care bill. they're going to have to go home and face people in the election next year. could be tough. after spiking the football, the white house today could get ugly for the republicans and the democrats. we continue to watch those protests up in new york as president trump makes his first return. catch this. first time back to new york where he lives since he got the job. he's set to make remarks tonight aboard the intrepid aircraft carrier within the hour. there's his podium. this is "hardball" where the

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joining me this sunday night, 8:00 eastern for live coverage of president obama receiving the profile in courage award up in massachusetts. we'll have the big event at the jfk library including speeches from both president obama and michelle obama. they're both going to talk about this award on sunday night. that's coming up sunday night, 8:00 eastern. we'll be right back.

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you can figure things out easily, so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount look at how this bill was written. can you say it was done openly? with transparency and accountability? >> no! >> without back room deals struck behind closed doors, hidden from the people? hell no, you can't! have you read the bill? have you read the reconciliation bill? have you read the manager's

amendment? hell no, you haven't. >> i don't think we should pass bills that we haven't read that we don't know what they cost. i don't think that's being on fusive. >> welcome back to "hardball." when obamacare was passed, there were complaints of not getting to read the bill. seven years later, a repeal and replacement plan was plassassed without a cbo score. as of last night, members of the house complained the newest version of the bill they voted on today wasn't available for review. thomas garrett of virginia acknowledged this morning he didn't read the new gop plan. he said that's for staff to do. >> have you read the whole bill? >> oh, gosh, let's put it this way. people in my office have read all the parts of the bill. i don't think any individual has

read the whole bill. that's why we have staff. >> that's why politicians don't usually tell the truth. anyway, that's why we have staff. you got to say i was briefed this morning fully on it, stephanie. that's the right answ. meanwhile, democrats insist this deal to replace obamacare will take health care away from millions of americans dependent on its benefits. >> when you green light discriminating against people with pre-existing conditions, it really dramatically changes american health care for the worse. and millions of people will be walking on an economic tightrope. they won't be able to pay cancer bills, other chronic illnesses, and democrats are not going to regard that as an idea that even has a pulse. >> mr. president, 172,000 west virginians got insurance for the first time. these are working people, but any got something they never had before. they don't know how they got it. they don't know who gave it to

them. they don't know the democrats, nothing about it's obamacare. they don't know any of that. all they know is they got it. and you know what? they voted for you, mr. president. as the democrats gave it to them, they voted for you. they're going to know who took it away from them. >> michael steele, an msnbc political analyst and former chair of the republican national committee, and liz smith, a democratic strategist. i want to start with michael. i don't -- i guess i know why the republicans had this vote today because they've been promising to get rid of obamacare. it's like the -- you know, i understand the heart of that. but the details were a problem because the reason your party has opposed any kind of social progress over the last 50 or 100 years is because once there is progress, people d't want to go backwards. >> right. >> nobody says get rid of social security really. nobody says get rid of medicare really or medicaid. when it comes to obamacare, mixed bag. but it's dicey to take things away from people that they've learned to benefit from, began to rely on. i said today my conservative republican father, lovely guy,

he loved medicare. >> yeah. >> because for the first time in his life when he was retired, he got something. he didn't pay into it, but he got something. you can't take that away from people once -- and now with people on obamacare, you go, a couple million people, and you have to pay a whole lot more on your premium every day because you've got these conditions. that's going to be a factor. >> it's going to be a factor. that argument actually falls flat for a lot of folks out there whose child now has coverage for their asthma, whose mom has coverage for her particular illness. >> it's got to be big for people with diabetes. i've got it. you got a lot of pills. you got a lot of injections and stuff. it all costs money. luckily i have insurance. >> it's covered now. >> it's covered now. if you don't have it, writing a check or pulling it out of your wallet for these pills, you know what will happen. people will stop taking the pills. that's what happens. >> so my argument going back to when i was national chairman even to today was if you're going to go down this road, make the case to those people when they get something, and i think

the senator was right in that clip. when you're now going to - what they perceive as taking away from them, you're going to have to hava counter argument for them. you have folks out there guaranteeing a whole lot of things they don't even know because they haven't scored the bill, what the ultimate cost is going to be here. the think the party leadership in the house rushed through this thing. the senate will take, i think, a more measured approach. >> i think the b.s. part of this, liz, if you don't mind the phrase is that they said that we're going to take care of pre-existing conditions by writing this check in the last 24 hours. i mean these are big anti-socialist congressmen, these republicans. but when they wanted the bill passed, okay, we'll write a check for $8 billion to cover over the next five years people with pre-existing conditions. that's about a buck and a half a year. it has to cover everybody in the country, all the diabetics, all the people with heart conditions, everybody with eyesight problems, everybody, all for -- wait a minute. it doesn't sound right in a country of 350 million people. i think that was palliative as they say in medicine, a placebo

even. i'm not sure it's going to exist, that money, because as michael just said, they haven't even scored it yet, what it's going to cost. >> sure. look, it's all smoke and mirrors. look, i'm not going to sugar coat this. this is a bad bill, and this is bad politics. and when i see these republicans out there, you know, declaring this as a victory, i hope they have health insurance because they really need to get their heads checked. and, you know, just on a slightly different topic, the spectacle we saw from republicans after they voted on this, you know, rolling in the beer to the house of representatives, getting on a party bus to the white house, pop i selfies in the rose garden, was exhibit a of why people hate washington. you know, that was behavior that was more befitting of a bachelor party than a vote to take away health. >> it was heavily white male, i must say. in fact, it looked like a rotary or something. nothing wrong with rotaries but it didn't look tod diverse.

>> to that point, chris, i talked to, you know, people at the democratic governor's associate today, people at the dlcc, and everyone is focused on 2018, but we've got some big elections coming up in 2017. in virginia, democrats are already on the offensive on this, and they are counting on women to turn out and vote against republicans on this issue. they believe that they have a winner on this one. >> are you going to leave the people that voted against the bill okay? the republicans who said they wouldn't vote for it, there's 20 of them from the northeast. jersey and pennsylvania were heavily represented. are you going to leave those guys alone because they voted right today? >> you know what, chris -- >> you're not going to answer this question, are you? >> oh, i am going to answer this question for you. >> it's yours. >> they should ask the 34 democrats who voted against obamacare, i think almost all of whom are in the private sector, how that vote worked out for them because a bad bill is going

to tarnish the entire republican brand. >> so there's no hope. there's nowhere to hide. >> i'm not going to disagree with her on that. >> you don't think there's anywhere to hide? >> we targeted them just as easily as we targeted the ones who -- >> you say they voted for this, the new american -- >> no. this is on the whole pot. you just can't segregate the peas from the potatoes. >> if you hang together -- >> or you hang separately. >> this is a republican vote. >> it took just a few hours. obamacare repeal plan for the first democratic ad to appear. a democrat running for governor of virnia released this ot, apparently seizing on today's heal care vote. >> republican leaders are trying to do this to affordable health care. i'm tom per yellow, and in congress, i voted for obamacare because it was wrong that a million virginians weren't covered while insurance companies held all the power. now i'm running for governor because it's wrong that most virginia incomes haven't gone up in 20 years.

together, we can stop donald trump, raise wages, and build an economy that works for everyone. and we'll make sure this never happens in virginia. >> liz, i'm always fascinated by those trash compactors that take automobiles and crash them into like a little box of metal. by the way, as my executive producer just pointed out, how did this do that in one take? you can only crush that car once. they must have gotten it right -- like sinatra. watch this car being crushed by it looks like a van. it looks like an ambulance actually, being crushed. >> they could have green screened. >> the guy's a pro. >> you're not jumping on my fine. >> he's a pro. what can i say? he's a pro. >> a lot of 30-second ads are coming, right? >> i do expect so. and, you know, what's interesting is how the shoe is on the other foot here. tom periello was voted out of the house in part because of his vote for obamacare, and now the

script has been completely flipped. we're going to see potentially republicans voted out of office. >> but that ad anin't going to get him back inthe governorship. i think the messaging for democrats has got to be a lot smarter than that. >> i think gillespie is going to be tough to beat. >> and you're going to have to come with an a-game that really sort of either separates, you know, the problems the democrats have from the minds of the voters or really kind of connect the republican candidate to -- >> let's talk turkey here. i hate to do it, but i love to do it. women voters, liz. we were kind of surprised -- i hate being ethnic, but white women voters voted for trump by 52%. i have a sense that women voters across the board are going to be very sensitive about health care because in any family i've ever been in, my parents and the one i'm in now, my mother looked out for the health care. she knew what was in the health care plan. my dad was clueless. my wife, kathleen, knows all

that stuff. so i get the feeling just as a fact of who takes responsibility in the house, women are going to be very sensitive on this health care front, even about their husband's health care and everybody. tell me about that, the gender thing here. >> look, there's not a race -- there's never been a race i've worked on where health care has not ranked among one of the top three concerns for women voters. and not only is this an issue about you're taking health care away. the republicans inserted into this bill, you know, a measure to defund planned parenthood, and that is something that is overwhelmingly supported by women of all political stripes. that is politically toxic for them. now, look, i do not expect that provision to survive the senate because, you know, you have senators like collins and murkowski saying that is an absolute no-go for them. but i expect women to be on the front lines, leading the charge against this disastrous legislation. >> i think that's a fair point. i think it's something that republicans are going to have to be smart about. i think that argument -- i don't

think the planned parenthood argument is going to have that much sway in the overarching health care debate for women. it will be a part of it. but i think the number where you are going, the bottom line, what's covered, and how much am i paying for it? >> women care about all the issues. thank you michael steele, and thank you, liz smith. up next, president trump is in new york tonight as we said. he's expected to speak within the hour and today announced his first foreign trip as president. he's going to saudi arabia, israel, and the vatican. the big three of religions, i must say, in this world not to be less than polite about it. but it's an interesting decision by him to hit all three. it used to be ireland, israel -- now he's doing these three. this is "hardball" where the action is. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations

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why i am proud to make a major and historic announcement this morning and to share with you that my first foreign trip as president of the united states will be to saudi arabia, then israel, and then to a place that my cardinals love very much, rome. >> it's impossible as a roman catholic to understand any president of the united states who is actually not a member of the church referring to them as my cardinals. it's my airplanes, my army, my soldiers. welcome back to "hardball." the man who possesses all things, president trump is back home in new york tonight. later this month he's set to make his first foreign trip.

it's sort of a pilgrimage. the president starts in saudi. he then travels to israel, that makes sense to meet with the president. he's very close to the prime minister, bibi netanyahu in israel. he then travels to rome for a sit-down. that's an honor, of course, with pope francis. that will end in a stop in brussels to visit nato, which he used to hate. and then the g7 summit in sicily. senior administration officials tell nbc the goal of the trip is to build a foundation of support with our muslim allies to combat terrorism, but that means president trump will have to atone, don't you think, for some of the comments he's made about muslims. watch some of them. >> we have to be careful. look, there's something going on. the muslims. >> the muslims have to work with us. they have to work with us. they know what's going on. >> they knew the people in san bernardino were bad, but you know what? they didn't turn them in. >> should there be a database that tracks the muslims.

>> there should be a lat ot of a systems. >> tough guy. the president has also made controversial comments regarding pope francis. >> the pope said something to the effect that maybe donald trump isn't christian, okay? and he's questioning my faith. for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. >> do you plan to visit with the pope when he comes to philadelphia? >> well, the pope believes in global warming. you do know that, right? [ laughter ] hey, in this room it's so hot in here, maybe i'll start to believe it myself. >> ha, ha, ha. that is a foolish thing to say. he'll have to clarify where he stands when he gets on the american embassy in israel. he's talking about moving the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem, which of course would cause a thunderclap of trouble, but here he is. >> we will move the american embassy to the eternal capital of the jewish people, jerusalem. [ cheers and applause ]

>> will you recognize jerusalem as israel's capital and move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem? >> the answer is yes, i would. >> the president of the united states, as we speak, is giving serious consideration to moving the american embassy in tel aviv to jerusalem. [ applause ] >> for more i'm joined by the global editor of the huffington post, howard fine. i use it used to be ireland, israel and italy. now he's going to rihad. he's not going to mecca. going to rihad after all he said about muslims, how issing th thg to go over? >> he's kind of making progress of the abrahamic religions. he's hitting islam, judaism -- >> sons and daughters of abraham. >> so part of it is to plai y t

the base back in the united states. he announced this trip during a signing about religious freedom in the united states in the rose garden. so he was calling out the cardinals. he was tipping his hat to the rabbi and everybody else. >> my cardinals love the vatican. what do you make of that? my cardinals? >> well, he -- >> he must mean the ones in new york or -- there's one in new york. >> i think he thinks of the part of the catholic vote that supported him in the election on abortion and other issues, the conservative part of the vast -- >> i know who they are. [ overlapping voices ] >> so it didn't serve him with those people even though this pope is a politically liberal pope to say the least. it doesn't serve donald trump's domestic political purposes to be cross wise with the pope. but the key thing i'm told from talking to people who studied the region and who know about the region here in washington,

the key thing is the gulf states. in other words, he's going to rihad first for military and geopolitical reasons. donald trump has picked sides in the eternal fight in islam between sunni and shia. he has picked the sunnis. he's picked the saudis. he's picked the gulf states. >> i agree, the big three. it's el-sisi in egypt, abdullah in jordan, and whoever is the current crown prince in saudi. >> yeah. >> and of course the emirates. >> and the rest of the gulf states, united arab emrates and so forth. they're lining them up against iran. so it's basically the saudis and the gulf states and oddly enough israel as the sort of unacknowledged silent partner here. >> it is. are you hopeful about that? do you think that's reasonable that we might see in our lifetime something like a de facto alliance among the sunni air accountries that are leally

the responsible ones and israel? >> i think that's already sort of happened because they've decided jointly, though still officially unaligned, that iran is the enemy, russia behind it in many ways. and, you know, that's in the eternal struggle, that's where it lines up right now. that's where trump is going. that's where mattis, the defense secretary, and mcmaster, the national security adviser, want to go. trump will be kind of the royal presence there. he doesn't pretend to, and let's hope he doesn't pretend to understand the depths of the history of the struggles there. he will be there as a kind of an official -- >> is he -- [ overlapping voices ] >> you don't want to look like the best friends of saudi. you know over the years when you go to a saudi embassy party years ago, you would go and meet a lot of spooks there, a lot of cia because that's the way we relate to them, underneath the table. >> that's still the way -- there's a struggle going also in the united states iernally between the people who distrust

russia totally, don't like russia's alliance with iran, which is informal but real, and want to stay with the saudis that they dealt with for years in that part of the world. and i think trump and mcmaster and mattis -- mcmaster and mattis having grown up in that structure are doubling down on it. that's why you go to riyad first. in terms of israel, i can't believe that donald trump, if he's really going to be practicing the art of the deal is going to make one of his first moves in israel when he goes there on the 50th anniversary of the israeli army taking jerusalem to say, i'm going to move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem. >> he's going to grab the waiver. >> he's not going to do that. >> because -- >> the waiver comes up in may and -- >> anybody who has been fortunate enough, when i go there was a christian, there's nothing like being in the old city of jerusalem. the spirituality of all the religions and to see how people day to day do get along -- they do. the ultra-religious jewish

people, the arabs going to the call to prayer, the christians. it really does work. >> i've been there too as a jew, and it's been going on pretty peace peacefully for a thousand years. >> i think it's a spiritual trip we all should get to take. howard fineman, my fine. up next, protests in new york as president trump returns home, believe it or not, for the first time since the inauguration. he'll be speaking tonight at the uss intrepid. actually it's the carrier intrepid. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball," where the action is.

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welcome back to "hardball." looking at live pictures of protests alongside the aircraft carrier intrepid up in new york. we've been up there before a long time it seems. trump is about to speak. it's the first time he's been back to the city. this is incredible the way we cover him. first time back to the city

despite all that police coverage of trump tower, he's never been there himself since he was sworn in. some new yorkers who voted against the president are using the opportunity to show their resistance. that's the big word. let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable. i'm joined by annie carney, steve herndon, and molly ball. thank you, gentlemen and ladies. you first, lady. what do you think about -- my hunk co hunch coming on tonight, i've watched the resistance grow. it's going to be up and down. i think one thing that's going to be new as of today is people are going to pick u their newspapers tomorrow because you have to read the paper to figure out this health thing. you got to look at it. they're going to go, wait a minute, my resistance now is tangible and real. i'm not just mad at the guy's face or his stupid jokes or anything else. he's hurting me. >> i think that's right. the protesters now have something real. he had his first legislative win today. i mean the way they were, as you said, spiking the football -- >> what do you call a win when it's really a loss?

>> he has a long way to go with this -- >> pyrrhic victory. >> he looked so happy today in the rose garden. >> didn't he? >> he knew when he got one. it might not be a win in the end. >> do you think it's more like he likes to win, that it has nothing to do with the health care of anybody? >> coming up the first time today, the narrative was they couldn't get anything done. there wasn't a signature policy accomplishment. i think the white house sees this as a vindication. but like annie said, the rubber will meet the road. there will be some moment where it becomes about the policy and about the impact of the policy more so than the optics of who won or lost. >> i'm just wondering, molly, if this doesn't clear the senate. it only needs 50 votes in the senate because it's done in this reconciliation thing. if it only takes 50, that means they only need 50 republicans out of 52, which means they can afford to lose two. but you're hearing a lot of this response to this thing, people

that don't like it but want to vote for it because they've got to live with it their whole senate career. >> this bill is not passing the senate no way no how. the question is does any bill pass the senate? the senators have no interest -- >> why not? >> because they don't think it's a good bill. even the members of the house who voted for this bill are counting on the senate to make it better, to get the scores and to do a little bit more deliberative action. they felt pressure to give trump an instant win, but they don't want this actual bill to pass. so when you talk about, you know, this bill is going to make people angry because it hurts people, well, it has to actually pass first for that to happen. i guess there's maybe a best case scenario where trump can say he won because it got through the house, but nobody tually feels any bad impacts from it because it never gets enacted. >> here's the king and queen of hypocrisy in this. republicans say they don't want to pay for things like pre-existing conditions, so they say they're just going to write a check for it. none of these programs and these plans will carry it, but they

will write a check from the federal government, just out of borrowed money, i guess. it's only going to be $8 billion. we know it's going to be 30 or 40 or 50 or whatever, but they like the principle of saying they don't believe in telling the states what to do. so they're going to let the state dozen what they want to do, opt out, and then they're going to write this huge check, annie. this huge check. but we're against socialized medicine. i don't get it. it seems a stupid argument on their part. if the government is going to pay for health care at really bad risk because they have pre-existing conditions, why not call it what it is? it's obamacare. >> well, they can't. >> they can't admit it but they're going to pay the bill. >> they have to look like they overturned beak. people across the country, i think, have responded to polls saying they like the affordable care act. they don't like obamacare. a lot of people don't realize it's the same thing. this is a victory on paper. >> if they don't real it by now, when are they going to find out? >> i don't know. >> you think the democrats would announce it. if you hear of affordable care, that's obamacare.

>> right. in terms of the psychology of the president, i think we really needed this. we saw him earlier this week sending mulvaney out to call the budget bill a win. he was upset that schumer and others were trying to claim a victory. he needed this to make himself feel better. >> i want to go cosmic. george will wrote one of his great columns ever today. basically he said that the president's problem is he doesn't know what it means to know something. he doesn't know what knowing something is. it's that fundamental. he doesn't know what a fact is. >> well, look -- >> that's a pretty scarynotion. the president doesn't know what knowinmeans. >> but george will saying something negative about donald trump is pretty dog bites man at this point. i mean donald trump forced george will out of the republican party. i mean i think the problem is that this idea that trump is fundamentally uninterested in facts and arguments and substance is gaining credence among republican members, among republicans on the hill. hearing them say things in

interviews, maybe commits about what a health care bill ought to do, and then it has no bearing on the negotiations they're having, and the actual legislation they're writing. >> can you impeach someone for just being who they are, or do they have to do something wrong? >> that's a question for the base. the people who have to flip on him -- >> are progressives willing to get rid of a guy because he doesn't know whae het he's doin? >> i don't think that's what's in the constitution. >> high crimes and misdemeanors does mean something about a crime. the roundtable is staying with us as we await trump's remarks at the intrepid tonight up on the west side of new york. this is "hardball," where the action is. when this bell rings... ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business, from the largest financial markets to the smallest transactions, by sensing cyber-attacks in near real time

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. rewe're back with the "hardball" roundtable. annie, tell me something i don't know. >> president trump on his first visit back to new york. >> tonight. >> since being elected had a meeting with the australian prime minister set up across the street from trump power, had no plans to go back home even though that home is being protected by the secret service

because melania, the first lady -- >> he's going to new jersey. >> no plans to set foot in the -- >> what's your theory? >> i don't really know. i think it's strange he's not going home. >> maybe it's like gaddafi used to stay at a different place every night. >> we know what trump said about the civil war and andrew jackson. >> yes, knowledgeable. >> i talked to some historians this week who said he seems to have a particular blind spot for black history and this white house does as a whole. not only the comments this week but we have betsy devos calling pioneers of school choice. ben carson saying slaves were immigrants. >> they're not schooled properly, are they? >> almost as if they're a little bit out of touch. >> molly? >> the heritage foundation had a big blowup this week. jim demint ousted. you might think that's the end of it. my sources in and around the heritage foundation telling me this is just the beginning of a longer conflict that is still brewing about what the direction and purpose of the heritage foundation is going to be. republican in the white house, are they going to be yes men for

trump, or are they going to try to stand u f conservative principles? ey still don't know. >> i think it's principles. i think that's where they're headed. back to ed fulner, where he started from. we'll be right back after this. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. where's jack? he's on holiday. what do you need? i need the temperature for pipe five. ask the new guy. the new guy? jack trained him. jack's guidance would be to maintain the temperature at negative 160 degrees celsius.

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president trump is set to speak at the aircraft carrier intrepid in new york tonight. it's his first trip back to his hometown of new york since taking office. he's been met by protesters

outside, not so many as i thought. they seem to have drizzled away. tonight he met with the australian prime minister. back with the roundtable just for a second. trump, has he got a big win tonight, or is this a pyrrhic victory on health care? >> it's a win for him. he feels like it's a win. >> steve? >> momentary win. >> i think that's right. i think we don't know yet. >> churchill said there's two kinds of success. initial and ultimate. >> again, like we discussed before, i think that what trump needed right now is to look like he could get something passed. >> can he move the tax bill, or will the senate hold everything up? could he go with the tax bill now in the house? >> it would be the same outcome. the senate would hold things up. >> they've got to get the health care bill actually done first, enacted into law before they get the tax savings. that's 50 votes. that shouldn't be that hard. he loses three republican senators, he dsn't get anything done. >> i mean right now it's looking like more than three who are

skeptical. if that number grows, that momentary win could turn into a -- >> i think as you've all sad, if he has to manipulate what came out of the house to get it to the senate, the house won't recognize it when it comes now. anyway, thank you. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> it no longer matters because we won. >> trumpcare survives in the house. >> do you feel you might have spiked the ball a little bit too early? >> tonight, bernie sanders on the fight to save obamacare moving to the senate. congressman tom cole on exactly what republicans just voted for. >> is it okay in america for an insurance company to call a kid with cancer $100,000 a year? also, just what this bill would mean for the american people, and what democrats think this means for the mid term election.