china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and. this sunday, health care fallout. president trump gets a big win and isn't afraid to gloat. >> how am i doing? okay, i'm the president. hey, i'm the president. >> democrats can't stop the obamacare repeal. yet aren't afraid to taunt. >> with respect to the transactions related to the north korea and for other purposes. and senators aren't afraid to make predictions both republicans -- >> we have turned the volume off on health care. >> and democrats. >> zero chance, dead on arrival, over in the senate. >> we have the obamacare repeal vote covered on all sides. defending the bill with health and human services secretary tom price. its chances in the senate with

republican senator roadway -- roy blunt. and the democrats' response with senator dianne feinstein. and democrats lost the house in 2010. after passing obamacare. what will happen now to republicans who voted to kill it? and sound familiar? a computer hack attack on the leading candidate in today's french presidential election. why u.s. intel believes the russians are at it again. joining me for insight and analysis are rich lowry of the national review. kristen welker, white house correspondent. matt bai, from yahoo news. and politico's iliana johnson. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, celebrating its 70th year. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. chuck todd is off today. it's not often you see a white house signing ceremony celebrating the passage of a bill that has merely made it through the house.

but after their health care win, president trump and house speaker paul ryan were more than happy to spike the football. even if there is still a lot of green grass between them and the end zone. that said, the house did just hand a skeptical senate a bill not scored by the congressional budget office, not read by most of those who voted for it. and that counts among its winners those with high incomes, wealthier people without pre-existing conditions. the young and large employers. and among its losers, the poor, older americans, people with pre-existing conditions and those who counted on obamacare's essential health benefits. still, this was a win president trump needed and got. many people declared the repeal and replace movement dead as recently as this week. but the president as he has done so many times before proved people wrong. >> the ayes are 217, the nays are 213. >> after a legislative victory a white house celebration.

>> how am i doing? am i doing okay, hey, i'm president. can you believe it? >> the house of representatives voted on thursday to scale back health care for millions of americans. bending, if not breaking, promises mr. trump has made. >> i want to keep pre-existing conditions. i think we need it. >> but the house bill would allow states to opt out of rules which prohibit insurance companies from raising rates on people with pre-existing conditions. candidate trump promised there will be no cuts to social security, medicare and medicaid, but according to the congressional budget office analysis of the first version of the bill, federal funding for medicaid would drop by $880 billion over the next ten years. in january, president-elect trump promised insurance for everybody, repeating a vow he made on the campaign trail. >> i'm going to take care of everybody. i don't care if it costs me votes or not. >> but the congressional budget office estimated 24 million people would lose health care

over the next decade. the house bill eliminates the essential health benefits requirement. meaning insurance companies could choose not to cover services like maternity and pediatric care, mental health and prescription drugs. even under employer based plans. republicans say it will lower premiums overall. >> you'll have better health care at a lower cost. >> the bill also ends federal funding for planned parenthood. republicans still have to wrestle a bill through the senate that house conservatives will accept. some republican senators already say the house bill falls short. don't support the bill as currently constructed and have more questions than answers. now a 13-member senate working group will write a new bill. >> in the senate bill if you have a pre-existing condition, you'll be able to get insurance. in fact, that law can't be changed. >> and after this emotional plea -- >> no parent should ever have to decide if they can afford to save their child's life. >> with a child born with a

congenital heart disease get everything he or she would need in the year year of life? i want to pass the jimmy kimmel test. >> the democrats were taunting the republicans on the house floor -- >> for other persons -- >> after the vote, the nonpartisan cook report changed the ratings of 20 seats to show new opportunities for democrats in the midterms. and within an hour of the house vote, a democrat running for governor of virginia released this ad. blaming republicans for crushing affordable care act. >> we'll make sure that this never happens in virginia. >> and joining me is the secretary of health and human services, tom price. thank you very much for being with us, mr. secretary. thank you for joining us. >> thanks, andrea. thank you so much. good to be with you today. >> let's talk about the health care bill as passed by the house. the president promised he would take care of people with

preexisting conditions. critics say that this bill as passed by the house does not. >> no, i think it's absolutely true that the president is fulfilling his promise to the american people and that is to make certain that every single american has access to the kind of coverage that they want for themselves and for their family. not that the government forces them to buy. and makes certain that we ensure that individuals with pre-existing illnesses and injuries are covered but covered in a way that they want. not that washington forces them. >> but you're talking about access. access at what price? are you pricing people out of the market? 84% of people 55 years and older according to your own department's studies have pre-existing conditions. are they going to be able to afford the price that is set because states can opt out and there will no longer be any requirement that this be affordable. >> absolutely, we think it will be more affordable, andrea. but look at the people that we're talking about. if you have medicare, if you have medicaid, if you have insurance through the v.a. or tricare or through your

employer, none of this affects you in the preexisting illness or condition discussion that we're having. if you have a pre-existing condition and you're in the exchange market right now, remember that many, many people have increasing premiums, increasing deductibles. they're in an area in this country where there are -- it's either one insurer offering coverage or in some places none. those are individuals who can't get any care at all. they may have an insurance card, but they can't get care. this is a system that's not working for patients and that's what we're trying to fix. >> i didn't mean to interrupt you, but let me stipulate, there are areas -- we know that in iowa, now in virginia that there are insurance market issues. that could be fixed, but let's stipulate that that still needs to be fixed. but what about this issue of pre-existing conditions? you have 22 major health care groups. we're going to scroll the names, let our viewers see, 22 groups including the ama, the doctors, the american lung association, the american osteopathic association, the academy of

pediatrics, the children's hospital association, the aarp, nurses, even insurers, all of them are against the way that the house passed this bill. are they wrong? >> well, what i believe they're not recognizing is that this is a different, and, we believe, a better way to cover individuals with pre-existing illnesses and injuries because it allows for every single person to get access to the coverage that they want. look, nobody wants folks who have a pre-existing illness or injury not to be covered. we want to do it at a lower price and broader choices for patients so that again they're able to see the doctor that they want to see. they're able to go to the hospital that they want to go to. to the clinic that they want to go to. not that washington forces them to participate in. so this is -- yes, it's a different way, but it's a way that we believe to be better and more comprehensive and ability to have those patients have the kind of coverage and care that they want. and just because we stipulate that there are places where there's only one insurer or no

insurers, that's a major problem and those are the kinds of things we're trying to fix. >> but you say that people are not going to lose what they are getting now. well, let's take a look at what you said on fox business on friday. >> under obamacare, the older folks and sicker folks could pay three times more than the younger folks. whereas under this plan they might pay five times more. that's going in the wrong direction. >> well, it's pricing for what individuals' health status is. that's important to appreciate. >> so you're raising the costs on the sicker people to pay for the people who are healthier. >> no, what we're trying to do is to make sure that every single person has health coverage. remember, there are 20 million people right now in this country who have said to the federal government, said to the previous administration, nonsense. i'm not going to participate in your plan, i'll either pay a fine through the irs or i'll get

a waiver. that's 20 million individuals who don't have coverage and we ought to say, why don't they have coverage and try to fix that. the fact of the matter is if those individuals who are sicker, who are older, who are poorer, they will get larger subsidies so that they're able to gain the kind of coverage they need and want for themselves and for their family. we are -- our desire is to make certain that we have a system that works for patients. not for government. not for insurance companies but for patients. that's the goal. >> we looked at the map and we looked at the states with people under the age of 65 who have preexisting conditions. the highest rates of those under 65 with preexisting conditions are in states that voted for president trump. what do you say to your own voters? >> i say to them and the president has an absolute commitment to make certain that they have the kind of coverage that they want. look, this is a different way to do things. there's no doubt about it. we believe it's a better way because it puts patients and families and doctors in charge of health care. not washington, d.c. this is -- this is a change in

how we would manage to allow for individuals to gain the kind of coverage that they want. we understand that. and sometimes change can be disconcerting to folks. and that's why i would suggest that that list of groups that you had up earlier say they now oppose it. the fact of the matter is, they're not focusing on the kinds of things that are going to improve the system, improve the system for patients and families and docs. not make it so that government or insurance companies are in charge. >> well, let's talk about women. when we looked at the rose garden and the celebration of this on thursday, they were all -- mostly all men and white men at that. there was no diversity there. women's health issues arguably are going to be disproportionately affected. obamacare includes maternity and newborn care, preventative care. mammograms, cervical cancer screenings, birth control. all of this under the essential package no longer required under this house bill. >> andrea, come on. look at that picture.

congresswoman diane black, the chair of the budget committee, i was standing next to her. the administrator of cms, i was standing next to her. >> out of a group of dozens and dozens of people, you can cite two or three -- two or three women? >> these are prominent individuals who are leading -- who are leading -- in this area of health care. but the goal, as i mentioned, is to make certain every american, men, women, rich, poor, old, young, have the kind of coverage that they want for themselves and for their families. not that government forces them to buy. that's the change. >> let's talk about not only women but what the president promised. i wanted to play for you what the president promised about medicaid during the campaign. >> there's a percentage, a fairly large percentage that can't afford it. then those people don't get taken care of. that's wrong. we'll take care of that through the medicaid system. we'll take care of those people. we have no choice. we're not going to let people die on the streets. >> medicaid expansion is going

to be cut in the first version of this bill and there's no cbo score because they rushed it through before getting the accounting from the nonpartisan congressional budget office, but the first version had $880 billion cut from medicaid. that goes right against the president's promise not to cut medicaid. >> no, what it does is say there's a better way to do things. imagine a system, if you will, where if you have insurance through your employer, but you fall on tough times and you fall into the medicaid market, that that transition is seamless. imagine if you go the other way, from medicaid to employer sponsored insurance, that that transition is seamless. imagine you go from medicaid to the exchange market that that transition is seamless. right now there are huge holes in the things. we don't want to pull out the rug from anybody. >> but you found -- with all due respect, you found $880 billion. isn't this another way to come up with close to a trillion

dollars -- the president said as much on fox business. you're finding almost a trillion in business in order to be able to pay a tax cut that is revenue neutral. >> andrea, andrea, in the medicaid system right now, one out of every three physicians in this nation who ought to be seeing patients in medicaid are not. we ought to, as a society, ask ourselves why is that the case and fix that. the medicaid population is basically four different demographics. seniors, it's disabled, it's healthy moms and kids. and what the federal government now stipulates is that those healthy moms and kids need to be cared for in exactly the same manner as the seniors and the disabled. that doesn't make any sense to anybody. so what we're trying to do is to improve the medicaid system. make it more responsive to patients so that there are more resources to be able to be utilized for the disabled and the aged. that makes a whole lot of sense. >> i think a lot of people will wonder how taking more than $800 billion out of something is going to put more resources in it. but let me ask you one final question about health care.

the office of drug policy -- drug control, the white house office is being decimated according to one proposal. 90% cut. why eliminate the white house office of drug control at the very time when we have an opioid epidemic in this country? >> well, this is a budget that hasn't been completed yet, but what i will tell you is that the president has an absolute commitment to making sure we fight the opioid crisis. one of the top three priorities i have identified for the department of health and human services. we were able to put out $485 million in grants to states two weeks ago. i'm moving around the country this coming week to go to states where we want to make sure that they are allowed and have the -- >> we interrupt regular programming. i'm richard liu at msnbc headquarters in new york city for just a little bit. breaking news coming out of france. as you know, the election has been watched here in the united

states during recent weeks. we have breaking news in terms of who will be the next president. emmanuel macron is the projection by french president. the "bbc world news" editor has been following along with us this election in the evening there. the polls are just closing and the projections are out. chris, the surprising point might be the gap here by which macron has won. in this case marie le pen just taking to the microphones. what was she saying there as well, chris? >> reporter: le pen was conceding defeat. look, something you need to understand is this is not just projections based on exit polls. these are the projections of the interior ministry and the prime minister of the country. they made the announcement based on a sampling of actual balloting across the country. there really isn't any question mark here except maybe fractions of percentage points. emmanuel macron has won by 65%

of the vote. a massive victory over marie le pen. her party did much better than they have in the past, but she will have a hard time establishing herself as the opposition and he'll have a hard time forming a government. they had the idea they would take apart europe, take apart nato and basically create a situation that among other people, vladimir putin of russia thought would be just great if marie le pen won. well, she didn't won, emmanuel macron has won, and this candidacy of le pen is history. >> chris, what is next? now that we have the results here right after the 8:00 p.m. hour locally, what's next in the process? >> reporter: what's going to happen now is that within a week, the current president will move out of the elysee palace

and emmanuel macron will move in. we're looking at a two-phase election in the middle of june, and he will be trying to organize his movement into a party that can gain at least a substantial presence in that assembly, if not indeed a majority. he's also going to be trying to draw on both the traditional centrist conservatives and the traditional centrist part of the socialist party. already the current defense of the social government is clearly macron on his side and we'll see people drawn to him. he'll try to form a government after legislative elections that can last through some pretty considerable reforms that he has in mind. certainly nothing marie le pen had in mind, withdrawing from europe, withdrawing from the euro and increasing nato, but something more like the

traditional conservatives have thought would work. he'll be working with the european union. i think marie le pen will have a much more difficult time organizing a brexit deal because they will hold together where they would not have been if le pen had been elected. the one thing that has been decided is who the next president of france will be, and that's emmanuel macron, 35 years old, who has never held office before but is considered one of the brightest lights here. >> when we see that he's won by 37 percentage points here, the polls before the 48-hour blackout as you've been following, too, in the 20s, there was a question whether people would show up, right, in the numbers and quantities they

have in recent elections. what does that gap say about who macron is and who is supporting him? >> reporter: well, it certainly says a lot of people did not want le pen. i think in the first round we saw some 41% of macron's voters, when analyses were done, actually had voted for him because they didn't want to vote for anybody else. they didn't necessarily support and like him. i think he doesn't have the kind of militant following that some politicians have had in this country, including le pen. although her group is much smaller. i think he's going to have to win over the electorate here in a positive sense. he's going to have to convince people they have reason to support him and his policies, not just to vote against someone like marie le pen who essentially comes from a background that people regard as q urks arks s

quasi-nazi. >> if you're just joining us, france has elected a new president, emmanuel macron, in the runoff with marie le pen. she did congratulate macron. she didn't speak very long. this concession speech happened in maybe the last 10 minutes. were you able to glean anything else from what she said in her concession speech, chris? >> reporter: no, i really was not, but i don't suspect she was very gracious. these are bitter enemies and she ran a very bitter campaign. if you saw the debate a few days ago, it was really deeply nasty. she spent the entire two and a half hours trying to get a rise out of macron, personally insulting him many times and just generally being a fairly vile person, if i may say. >> do you expect them to come together in any way moving forward, then, now that macron has won? do you expect them to work together to address those voters, the 35% of those who did

vote in today's election? >> reporter: i think the 35% who voted for le pen are angry, fearful and nostalgic. and i think he has to do something to address that anger and that fear. he has to address the anger about unemployment in this country, about a sense of economic stagnation, and he has to address the fear that's based partly on immigration, partly on the fear of terrorism. this country has suffered awful terrorist attacks over the next two years. those things he needs to address. le work with h will he work with her to address them? i don't think so. i think she'll work with her supporters to try to address those. i don't see any working together with macron or le pen or the macron movement. >> these two candidates, for some in the middle, felt these

are neither of the two people i would like to vote for. one who holds extreme views is the criticism. the other, who has never held an office, is a wealthy individual, does not match who i am as well. the result of that concern, at least pre-election, pre the announcement in the last 15 minutes of the winner, was that they wouldn't show up. now we're seeing at least early numbers of 77% participation. in the last round it was 80%. put that in context for us. >> reporter: well, i think that there are several things that lowered the participation today. the thing that everybody was worried about is that people would be so disgusted with both candidates, they just wouldn't show up, and you would really have very high abstention rates, blank ballots, something on the order of 30,000 or more. that's not the case. the abstention rates we've seen so far is relatively close to

what we've seen in the past. i think in 2012, the abstention rate was something a little less than 20%, now it's a little bit more than 23%. that's not a huge difference. i think a lot of people will be relieved. ultimately the french feel it's their civic responsibility to vote and a lot of people raise questions, and in conversation with people you would hear them say, i'm going to vote for le pen, or i'm going away for the long weekend, i'm not coming back, or i'll abstain, one thing or another, but in the end they voted and gave macron a resounding victory. >> what do you attribute this to? the trump hangover, depending which side you sit on, and how that affected people of france saying, we have to go out and vote. we look across the pond and see what happened in the united states for those who are more moderate or more liberal and stayed at home but are thinking, i need to go out and vote because i saw what happened in

the united states. how much do you think that was part of the discussion there? >> i think it was a big part of the discussion. to some extent, even marie le pen was uncomfortable identifying with trump. i remember being at press conferences and events with her where people would say, you are the trump of france. she would say, no, i've been around longer than trump. she didn't really like that. she would say that trump kind of opened the door for her, he had sort of legit miimized her, but think looking at his record over the last 100 days, i don't think there was a feeling that trump's presidency was good news for marie le pen. there is a strong feeling that this is an end to a tidal wave of populism and natoism, at least an end for now to the tidal wave that brought trump. >> we are waiting for an acceptance speech by macron.

i think it's closer to the louvre with flags being waved. i know it's close to 10:00 on a sunday evening, but they have just elected a new president in the country. what is the energy level just around you? >> reporter: well, i think it's building. certainly people have been driving by honking their horns. we are not very close right here to the place where macron's victory celebration will be held, which is over at the louvre, and actually there was a scare over at the louvre earlier today. it looks like there was some kind of terrorism plot that was involved there. but yes, i would say the involvement is very high as i look at social media and the tweets and facebook posts that are going on, people are breathe ag huge si breatheing a huge sigh of relief. >> i want to bring in matt

bradley. what are the numbers you're hearing now, matt? we were getting numbers from the french, whose numbers haven't changed. 25 to 35. what do we know? >> those are the numbers from my colleague. this is the kind of definitive response. those numbers could change, they could waiver a little bit, but this is more or less the final announcement. so we're seeing what looks like a pretty clear -- verging on a massive repudiation of le pen and her supporters and the anti-globalist agenda that she's been touting. and a lot of her allies not just in the united states with trump, but throughout the world. steve bannon said there would be a wave of populist sentiment that would follow trump's presidency in the united states. that really hasn't happened.

but gilders when he failed to get the presidency. and now here with marine le pen's failure in france, we're not seeing quite the end of this wave. it doesn't look as though it's entirely crashed here on french shores. we still have elections in germany in september, and there's some elections in italy, and of course the elections where teresa may called in june. but it seems as though, for the most part, this was the decisive vote. this was what the world was looking for, to see if marine le pen was able to capture the moment from brexit and trump and carry this banner throughout the world. it looks as though she was not able to do that. not only was she not able to do that, she was dealt a decisive repudianion saying the people in france will no longer accept that kind of talk, that kind of

anger and hostility and other major global institutions. this is really a big day not just for france, but for europe, and indeed, the rest of the world, richard. >> we're watching pictures of the viewers and the celebration of emmanuel macron in front of the museum. the singers, the performers have just begun. perhaps we'll see emmanuel macron come up in minutes. if he does, we'll go straight to that. we have a rough translation of marine le pen who lost, only garnering 35% of the vote more or less. in that rough translation of both you and matt and chris here, this is a head nod to what you were just saying, matt. she's saying she will now organize a new sphere, patriots versus globalists in favor of globalization. this has given a choice to the voters. she is saying thank you to the 16 million people that gave her her vote, that she did call macron to congratulate him.

but the point here, as she spent the majority of her concession speech which was not very long, was to under line what she believes will be a critical battle against globalization and looking at new social models in what she calls a cacophony of new challenges. what might be those first steps? to matt and then to chris. >> the next step will be the parliamentary elections. so far emmanuel macron has convened his own party. it's called on marsh. not only has emmanuel macron never held elected office in his life, he'll be the youngest president in several generations, probably in french history. and now he has his own political party that is going to be vying in a massive legislature for seats. now, already polls have shown

that his on marsh party will probably do pretty well, but marine le pen will be putting up quite a fight. as you mentioned, and my colleague just mentioned, she's not going to be looking to reconcile herself with the emmanuel macrons of the world or the obamas of the world. she will be taking a posture and moving from there because she sees this as a movement that is global in the way i described, as well as steve bannon seeing this wave of population moving across the world. so she's not just using this set of elections coming up, but she's also going to be reaching out to so many of the populist political parties. about this movement, they're nationalists, but they also have an international perspective. it seems somewhat of a contradiction. but even in germany last year, a lot of these politicians, from

germany, from france, they were all sort of taking their nationalist chauvinistic show on the road. then reach across borders and shake hands with your colleagues who are saying essentially the opposite things. so they're going to be doing that still, and probably with a renewed vigor after this, as i mentioned, massive repudiation. >> in business terms it would be a franchise model. in this case we're talking politics. chris, reflect on that and that idea, as we look forward, of a very important election upcoming in germany. angela merkel now seen, as we saw in pictures with donald

trump, being a lead globalist, if you will. not necessarily a title that she aspired to or that anybody thought she would be taking on, but now as we look at the eu, she holds that role as also the most experienced. >> look, first of all, i think it's important to understand that a lot of those movements we've just been talking about are actually much more comfortable as opposition movements than they are as governing powers. garrett vilders in the netherlands had a key role in the government and he really wasn't successful at it. what he wanted to do was sit on the outside and spit in, as it were, to the tent. he's not one that wants to be in the tent. the same thing i think we'll see apply to a lot of these different parties. i don't think any of them will win power. i think what used to be fal falca petri's party in germany really has a prayer in hell of making a major dent in elections

there in september. here i think marine le pen's own party is likely to be badly battered from within. her niece is basically barking at her heels. her father hates her and she found the party. i think it will be divisive especially since she didn't even make it to 80%. i don't think we'll see any of these parties taking power any time soon. >> you know what we might see of the united states and what is hopping today post donald trump win is potentially within these parties and these sub-segments and groups is freelancing where they'll move off their subgroup, as we have seen here in the united states, and potentially more derivations of the energies as we looked at the nationalist economic movements in europe.

gi formand, i want to bring you in on this, gi. the 16 million that marine le pen just addressed moments ago that voted for her, are they durable enough? are they sustainable enough? are they energetic enough to sustain what she would like to do in her concession speech, and that's to continue in a strong way with this aenti-globalist movement that she has very clearly articulated in her concession speech. >> the answer would be yes. the frustration of gaining the french election, essentially it's right versus left, right? here the clear winner is in favor of 3:12.

now it's not the left or the right, the position is. for the first time in french history, they're each more than one-third of the vote, so this is new. he's able to deliver and it will grow and grow and we'll see his style. >> what is the style expected of emmanuel macron? >> he will be a low-key president, and we like that because we're a little exhausted. on previous presidents, we never deliver. it will be low key, but he's expected to be efficient, bringing dynamics into the french economy and the french jug market.

it will also. . and winning the march in parliament first and then achieving these reforms and. . . i think the national of france regretfully is an alternative. >> in a moment, i believe, gi, you're in the united states as well, however. the question i have for you is to make a comparison or contrast here of the divisions in france, the nationalist movement we're looking at from ma.

how far or how divisive is the relationship right now. i'd like you to use the benchmark of the united states. based in our election on. >> marine le pen is no donald trump. donald trump is full business, to say the least, and madam le pen is much more into french business. she is strongly against the private sector, against free trade. she's anti-business. there is a huge difference between trump and madam le pen. on the other hand, she's a populist like trump -- >> but gi, talk about the electorate. the relationship in the

electorate, the different camps. >> you're right, these deserve tore compared because the electorate is very similar. the people who voted for trump and the people who voted for le pen, they look alike. these are french people and people who are rather poor. when you look at the map of the electorate of trump and the electorate of madam le pen, they're very similar. the cities are rather liberal in the united states, liberal in france, and, you know, became part of france in the rural areas and the roughed out in france like the united states. they support le pen in france, which shows the similarities of the electorates and similarities of the problem that people, when they get encrusted by

globalization, they are voting for the populist party because nobody is taking care of them and nobody is offering a solution to them. >> steve clemens, editor at large for "the atlantic" and msnbc contributor. steve, for those who are watching what's happening in france and in europe and the united states, and that discussion you and i have had over the next several months. it exists between the united states and important countries like france say what would happen in this election. will the trump dynamic now be resounding across europe? france was a key benchmark in the conversations for just about everybody that you were speaking with in recent time, and you were reflecting on. have they cleared the hurdle? those who are concerned that it would be happening, this national economic movement, this nationalist movement that

started in the united states in recent years, i should say, continuing into europe. have they cleared that hurdle, those who were worried about it, because we now see the centrist winning? >> i think they've stepped in the right direction. you and i have talked about before the deep contrast, but to see the french people pick macron, i think, is a sign of some confidence that not all the walls are being torn down. and this is good. the other interesting thing about macron is he's now behind justin trudeau, the second generation ex-leader of a major world power who is coming forward. so we're really seeing also a generation transition and a kind of confidence, if you will, of the decision-making experience of a different generation of people. it will be interesting to see how donald trump deals with that. so i think that given the

pessimism and cynicism that we've seen building in europe, this is heartening. >> and heartening, i think, for those who would like less uncertainty, right? and as we look towards germany being the next major election in europe and angela merkel being that important leader that is, for the most part, very much supported by most of those in the eu by great margins in terms of seeing -- being seen as a leader that understands the trans-atlantic relationship, what does this mean for her? it wasn't necessarily a concern, at least by most discussions, that she would be unable to run again, but where does this put -- >> her decision to host nearly a million refugees was highly controversial. and i think that her situation was wobbly. it has begun her -- she's begun to demonstrate in various state elections that the center was holding inside germany and that,

as we look forward to the september elections, what just happened in france may give her just a bit more breeze at her back that they're able to hold the leadership inside germany, and it didn't look like that a year ago. it looked really kind of dangerous that you saw witsps o 1930s europe coming across various european capitals. so i think measurical merkel ge of this. i think america as a whole gets a boost of this. i think brexit and donald trump were two big gut punches to the solvency of europe and macron today knocks that back. i think it gives le pen the ability to demonstrate her leadership in germany if she's able to hold herself together for the next election.

but in my believer of trans-atlantic operations, seeing macron fight back in one of the most potent forces of a party that we saw in marine le pen, i think, is very, very important. >> for those of you just joining us, the breaking news at this hour, it's a quarter to 3:00 eastern, is that there is a new president for france. the results coming out of france. the 65% for emmanuel macron who is the centrist. marine le pen coming in at 35%. this winning margin of 30 percentage points, more or less, is greater than what collections of polls were showing in the lead-up. you can probably guess you are watching macron supporters, the centrist candidate supporters,

celebrating outside the louvre, the museum, outside the plaza. we do expect emmanuel macron to come up for a victory speech. his opponent, marine le pen, earlier, about 35 minutes ago coming to the microphones at her campaign headquarters saying she had called macron, had conceded but then continued on in her short message to say she is more invigorated, more enlivened to continue her anti-globalization campaign, and she will look to do that going forward in the spirit of the 16 million people, she said, that voted for her. so if you're just joining us, that is the breaking news this hour here on msnbc. chris dickey, matt bradley still with me. matt bradley, the numbers here, the 30 percentage points here

greater than what the estimates were. what does that say about the liberal base or the centrist base and the turnout altogether? >> reporter: well, it does say that -- i was just speaking with chris just now that it was slightly more than the polls predicted, and the polls have been pretty much on point, especially in the first round about two weeks ago. now, what this says was that marine le pen wasn't able to pull off a very clever gambit that she and others in her camp had hoped to pull off. she thought she might be able to win votes from the far left. if you think about it in terms of the political wings of less is a straight line and more of a circle, marie le pen thought maybe she would go all the way around the right side and gather from the 20% that had voted for jean-luc melenshaw who was almost as opposed to the

european union as le pen was. he was just very an anti-establishment, he just had the look and attitude of a guy who would have just put his finger in macron's eye. he actually never -- unlike most of the losers in the first round, the 11, this massive menu of candidates who ran in the first round, he really didn't throw his lot behind emmanuel macron, at least immediately after he lost in that poll and got 20%. so he could have -- some of his supporters, especially the young voters, many of them might have gone behind marine le pen, and all of that was in sharp relief just days after that first round vote in the town of emau. that town is where macron was born. in the days following this first vote, both of the candidates in this surreal mish-mash that's really unusual for french

politics, both of them converged upon this small, sort of post-industrial city and this whirlpool factory, and le pen was greeted by the workers there. many of them former leftist. this town used to be a communist bastion. many greeted le pen and booed macron. so many of the far left voters with their antipathy for the european union might have gone for le pen and gone all wait arou -- all the way around the circle. m and the other candidate immediately rallied around macron after he only got 20% of the vote.

but they could have thrown in their lot with marine le pen. the fact that that didn't happen is very significant here, and it's going to be very, very significant moving forward, as i mentioned, to these parliamentary elections next month when we're going to start seeing how the real shape of french politics is going to fall, where all the cards are really going to fall and who is going to inherit power in this very, very divided country. >> very divided, and chris, i know you want to reflect on what matt just provided to us. great context. thank you for that, matt. in talking about the youth votes since matt brought it up, chris, the question is, the latest polls before the blackout showed for the youth macron was like the third favorite for them. marine le pen was a second favorite. and if that came to pass, what they wanted would be the winner, we would have a different president right now. what is the status of the youth vote in france?

>> well, i think there is a kind of irony where young voters are concerned in france. they're part of the 21st century. they enjoy a lot of the benefits of the 21st century. they would like all that's true, but at -- at heart, a lot of them want the kinds of guarantees in the labor market that their parents had. they want jobs for life. they don't want to be fired. they want permanent, good jobs and it's very hard to promise that in the 21st century. macron is not promising it. melenchon was. le pen was. and that's one of the reasons that melenchon and le pen thought they'd had similar voters. that le pen could attract those voters. you know, the far left and the far right it's confusing here. marine le pen if you want to understand le pen, you should think of her as a national socialist. we don't say that because of the unfortunate german contraction of national socialist. but in fact, that's what she is.

her economic policies, her anti-business, very socialistic, combined with xenophobic, nationalistic, anti-immigrant often thinly veiled racist and sometimes thinly veiled anti-semitic policies. none of that part of her attracted young people, but the socialistic part did. the guarantees that she promised them, those appealed to young people and that's why she thought she could get melenchon's voters ares but ultimately i think they could not stomach the racist aspects of her party. >> that did not happen. melenchon being the most popular three out of ten at least in the insis poll for the youth vote. guy, can you expand on what chris and matt were talking about the youth vote here? and that at least by the early numbers here, guy, it does not appear that they were -- they were the linchpin here for the victory of macron. and again, we don't have all of

the breakdowns as of yet, but at least leading up to today's vote and then seeing the results, if they got their way, it would not be macron. >> right. i mean, the youth vote is very much like the united states. like you had for bernie sanders and in france, the young generation was enthusiastic for macron. the far left candidate so the youth vote is a big confused on that. i agree with your analysis, they would like the benefits of an open europe. they want the social guarantee of the welfare state. and this doesn't work. but if i may add one short comment. when listening to your discussion, everybody is a bit lost -- nobody knows how to qualify the candidates and macron sometimes you say the centrist. sometimes you say the liberal. and usually in france, you know, we have right versus left. and this time, you have a -- a

new candidate and new generation. you don't know, i don't know how to call him. because this is a new game. well, the decision is between le pen, it has been said she is a nationalist and a socialist and i agree on that. but how would you qualify macron? pro open society, pro market. pro europe. pro globalization. we have to find new words and the comparison being made with trudeau. we have to build a new vocabulary to redefine the political life in the western world and especially today in france. so i wouldn't say macron is a centrist. doesn't mean anything to france. to say a liberal, not very clear. so you should say -- open society versus closed society maybe. we really need to reinvent our

political vocabulary if we want to understand what's going on. >> i want to bring in jim shields, professor of french politics in england. jim, thanks for joining us in this conversation. again, on the breaking news of a new president being elected in france and it's emmanuel macron. how would you label emmanuel macron? >> well, as your previous speaker said, he's very difficult to categorize. macron has positioned himself at the center of gravity of french politics. and that has been his strength up until now. he has been able to take policy from the left and the center and also from the center right. he is also put considerable support on the center right and the center left and he's turn up the rule book that separates

right from left and he has been endorsed in this election right across the mainstream party. that has been a strength up until now. the problem is it could turn into a weakness because he will find himself now opposed by very coherent political camps. the conservative republicans from whom he has drawn support in this election will be fighting for their parliamentary lives against his movement in june. the center left social left socialist who give him a lot of support in this election will be fighting for their political space. so in a way, he has enjoyed the good times. now it's going to change. he's going to be challenged by those who were supporting him today. i think his lack of a very

coherent political definition for himself could be a problem. >> as we look forward to the next steps and you brought up the parliamentary elections upcoming here, where do you think that will fare out? because in order to govern as we well understand the new president will need the parliament. >> yes. that's an absolutely crucial point. we have the impression that the french president is this all powerful office that he makes the political policy in france and somehow implements it. but that's far from the truth. if we go back to the constitution, we see that the french president and principle is actually a kind of arbiter or moderator of the political game. and he can't govern alone by any means. he needs to govern with the national assembly, out of which

he gets a government and he has to choose the prime minister who commands support in that national assembly. and that prime minister with the president will then construct a government that can get policy through the national assembly. now, will these elections go in june? emmanuel macron is hoping with the new movement he can win a majority of seats. there are 577 seats in the national assembly. so he's going to need 289 or more to form that majority. i think that's a very tall order. a real difficult challenge because as we said the other political parties which are much more embedded in constituencies than macron's will be fighting for every seat. >> what that means, jim, is that the campaigning will continue.

>> these elections -- he doesn't win a majority from his party he has to then try to piece one together. >> jim shields, we'll have to leave it there. we're at the top of the hour, jim, i can't thank you enough for your perspective. jim shields and the rest of our team. chris dickey, matt bradley, steve clemens, thank you all. we'll take a short break. more on the breaking news coming out of france after this. er get! way ahead of you. (avo) charmin ultra strong. it cleans better. it's four times stronger and you can use less. enjoy the go with charmin.

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we've seen a thing or two. ♪ we are farmers. bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum ♪ start your day with the number one choice of dentists. philips sonicare removes significantly more plaque versus oral-b 7000. experience this amazing feel of clean. innovation and you. philips sonicare. save now when you buy philips sonicare. we're covering breaking news here at msnbc in new york city. watching france at this hour. they have a new president. the breaking news coming out 45 minutes ago and the results is that emmanuel macron, much viewed as the centrist candidate wins 65% to 35%. these are some of the pictures that are coming out raw to us right now. it appears that emmanuel macron is getting ready or preparing or practicing potentially for