your dvr. follow me on twitter @greta. check out my facebook page. we put so much more on my facebook page. check it out, and also like it while you're there. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. do you believe him now? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. two days ago the white house crafted a cover story about the firing of james comey. according to countless white house officials up to and including the vice president, the order of events went like this. the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein and the attorney general jeff sessions came to see president trump to recommend that he fire james comey, the head of the fbi. the president agreed with them and took action. that was the white house story for two days. today we found that wasn't true

and we found out from a reliable source, president trump. here's part of the president's interview today with "nbc nightly news" anchor lester holt. >> monday you met with the deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. >> right. >> did you ask for a recommendation? >> what i did was i was going to fire comey. my decision. it was not -- >> you had made the decision before they came in the room? >> i was going to fire comey. there's no good time to do it by the way. >> because in your letter, you said, i accepted their recommendation. so you had already made the decision? >> oh, i was going to fire regardless of recommendation. he made a recommendation. he's highly respected, very good guy, very smart guy. the democrats like him. the republicans like him. he made a recommendation. but regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. >> well, for days the president's spokespeople told a very different story, and let's watch it. >> you said last week the president had full confidence in his fbi director. what changed? >> the recommendation that came today and the rationale behind it. >> so the president made the

decision today? >> yes. >> did anyone at the white house order the department of justice to do -- >> no. >> when you receive a report that is so clear and a recommendation by someone like the deputy attorney general, you have no choice but to act. >> this is the action that a president takes when he is told by the deputy attorney general, who has only been on the job for 14 days, so he took a new assessment, a new look at everything. >> because of the actions that the deputy attorney general outlined to the president that were endorsed and agreed with by the attorney general, the president made the right decision at the right time. >> well, the president's reversal, and it came today, comes as reporting suggests that rod rosenstein was not happy with the original white house version of events. according to "the washington post," rosenstein threatened to resign after the narrative emerging from the white house on tuesday evening cast him as a prime mover of the decision to fire comey and the president acted only on his recommendation.

for more on the president's interview on nbc, i'm joined by the former chair of the republican national committee michael steele and columnist for "the washington post," yeugene robinson. first of all, the president not only put out ms. huck -- what's her -- huckabee sanders, the daughter of the governor. he put her out for two days to say that all this came from the deputy attorney general, from mr. rosenstein. it all came from him. i accepted the recommendation of rosenstein. now the president comes out and corrects his own flakry and says, know, what the vice president has been saying for two days, what all my people have been saying for two days, that's not true. i ordered it. i made up my mind long before those guys came in the office. why is this happening in america? why is the chief executive of the united states, the president of the united states, having his people put out the wrong story? he puts out what apparently is the true story. it's got nothing to do with hillary clinton last year. it has to do with what trump

doesn't want -- he doesn't want comey doing now. >> he doesn't want this investigation to go forward. all of this hinges off of the reality of the inquiry made by mr. comey to mr. rosenstein about, i need more resources for this investigation. i need to expand this thing to the next level because there is a there there apparently. >> how does the vice president deal with the fact that he was -- i don't like the word lied but how about fibbed? big-time fibbing, all right? first he was told by -- you know, michael flynn says i didn't talk sanctions. >> you could call that a lie, chris. you could call that a lie. [ overlapping voices ] >> these people were told to lie. >> poor mike pence. i mean i kind of feel sorry for him. he signed up for this, right, so you can't feel so sorry. but this is the second time in a very high-profile way he's been left hanging out to dry. sitting right out under that limb and it cracks. >> he does what simon says every

time. >> exactly. but, you know, yes, you cannot take seriously what this administration spokespeople say. you just can't take it seriously. >> they were trying to cover for the president today. >> and the vice president was given a bucket of water to carry with a lot of holes in it. so he's got this all over his shoes right now, number one. the communication shop does as well. however this decision came down, it was clear that no one had command and control over it the night the president fired comey. >> but the president -- the central question really is what is the president afraid of? what does the president not want to reveal? >> because he has used every deflection device now for weeks now. he's trashed everybody. now he's calling, what, comey a showboater. >> a showboater. >> he's obviously obsessed about this investigation. >> less toter holt also asked president trump about one of the more bizarre lines in his termination letter to comey. let's watch this odd little

codicil in the letter. let's watch. >> let me ask you about your termination letter to mr. comey. you write, i great will you appreciate you informing me on three separate occasions that i am not under investigation. why did you put that in there? >> because he told me that. i mean he told me that. >> he told you you weren't under investigation with regard to the russia investigation? >> i've heard that from others. >> was it in a phone call? did you meet face to face? >> i had a dinner with him. he wanted to have dinner because he wanted to stay on. we had a very nice dinner at the white house. >> he asked for the dinner? >> a dinner was arranged. i thunk he asked for the dinner. he wanted to stay on as the fbi head, and i said, you know, i'll consider. we'll siee what happens. but we had a very nice dinner and at that time he told me you are not under investigation, which i knew anyone. >> that was one meeting. >> first of all, when you're under investigation, you're give all sorts of documents. i knew i was under. and i knew at some committee level that i wasn't. then during the phone call he said it. then during another phone call

he said it. so he said it once at dinner, and then he said it twice during phone calls. >> did you call him? >> in one case, i called him. in one case, he called me. >> did you ask him, am i under investigation? >> i actually asked him, yes. i said, if it's possible, would you let me know am i understand investigation? he said, you are not under investigation. >> but he's given sworn testimony that there is an ongoing investigation into the trump campaign and possible collusion with the russian government. >> right. >> you were the centerpiece of the trump campaign. so was he being truthful when -- >> i know that i'm not under investigation, me, personally. i'm not talking about campaigns. i'm not talking about anything else. i'm not under investigation. >> michael, gene, this is like a deposition. i've never seen a president submit himself to this. first of all, lester is a pro, and he knows how to ask the question. but it's like he's talking him tiny a perjury problem because he made him directly make these claims. three conversations, two on the phone. he was basically voicing the words he says that comey used.

>> the president will pivot to another position later on. >> it's hard to check. the only way you check this is have mr. comey come out and say whether or not he did, in fact, on three occasions give the president, twice by phone, once at dinner, the heads-up that he was not being investigated. now, you know, i know a little bit about this process. >> yeah, right. >> typically given that level of investigation, you're not going to go in and confirm or deny that. >> who wouldn't confirm or deny it? >> comey wouldn't. >> comey. >> but, again, let's take it back. remember how exorcised everybody got about a certain plane on a certain tarmac with the attorney general and the former president of the united states and what went on there. >> duh. >> hello? >> are you not in that same space here again where you have the fbi director saying to someone who is under an active investigation -- [ overlapping voices ]

>> if a senator makes one little phone call of either party, either gender makes a phone call to a regulatory agency about some power of theirs, that's a problem. how's herb's case going over there? that's a problem. >> that's a problem. >> anyway, the president came under bipartisan criticism today for those comments about james comey. let's watch. >> look, he's a showboat. he's a grandstander. the fbi has been in turmoil. you know that. i know that. everybody knows that. you take a look at the fbi a year ago. it was in virtual turmoil less than a year ago. it hasn't recovered from that. >> so he's going back to a year ago and saying that's why he's concerned about the way they may have helped hillary. this is going back to the scene of the crime. anyway, the chair and vice chair of the senate intelligence committee, richard burr, who i'm really counting on to do this job here, and mark warner responded to that. let's watch. >> i found him to be one of the

most ethical, upright, straightforward individuals i've had the opportunity to work with. >> i thought he'd made some mistakes last fall, but i never called for his resignation. i thought he was a straight shooter, and frankly i'm offended at the president's comments today. this is a continuing pattern of disrespecting the men and women who serve in our intelligence community. >> i think the president proved again today with lester holt he fears two kinds of people, straight reporters for the front page. can't stand them, factual reporting. he doesn't mind opinion. i'm sorry. he can live with you. he can live with me. he likes it in fact in a weird way. but he's afraid of straight facts on the front page. he's afraid of public servants who do their job and are not political. >> exactly. >> like sally yates and this guy. >> and who don't owe him. >> because they possess the truth. >> and, look, there was just no -- he could not abide having the fbi, which is investigating his campaign, run by a guy who

didn't owe him, who didn't owe him his job, who didn't obama him his loyalty. >> as you know, as a watergate, "washington post" guy, who brought down nixon? it wasn't just woodward and bernstein. it was the sources they had, the fbi? >> exactly. >> the fbi. >> exactly. they know a lot. >> lester holt asked president trump about his commitment to the russian investigation. let's watch that. >> what you said a moment ago about supporting the idea of investigation, a lot of people would find it hard to believe that the man who just said that tweeted very recently, it's a total hoax. it's a taxpayer charade. >> oh, i think that looking into me and the campaign, look, i have nothing to do. this was set up by the democrats. there is no collusion between me and my campaign and the russians. the other thing is the russians did not affect the vote, and everybody seems to think that. >> there is an investigation

under way, though, an fbi investigation. is that a charade? >> i don't know if it's an fbi or there's so many investigations. i don't know if it's an fbi investigation or if it's congress. if it's the senate. >> well, james comey testified there was an fbi investigation. >> yeah, but i think they're also helping the house and the senate. so you probably have fbi, but you have house. you have senate. they have other investigations. >> he's actually denying there that there is an fbi investigation. >> what's he talking about? >> he's saying it could be them doing the bidding of the house and senate. that's not true. we found out from comey they've been investigating him since last summer. >> since july of last year before we knew. >> he says this is set up by the -- you know, where does this come from? he's making stuff up. >> and i think that's where guys like comey get to a point where i believe now that he's a private citizen may say enough is enough. short of, you know, disclosing something that's classified, it will be interesting to see him

before a senate committee talking about the very things that he knows. >> you cover politics. you are politics. let me ask you this. it seems to me trump's made a calculation in firing this guy and knowing there will be a backfire from that. he knows the guy will come back at him, whatever he has to do, he'll get back at him because he's had his career atacttacked think trump made a very calculated decision which i is i can survive what he knows now about me. what i can't take is what they're going to get to. i'm willing to do a queen's sacrifice like in chess. i'm going to give away how angry people are going to be for a week because i don't want this thing going on at full steam for another year because they're going to get to whatever it is, gene, you were talking about. we don't know what it is. >> and i'll make another queen. it will be his appointment. >> i don't know if he'll get away with. >> we'll see what he gets away with. >> maybe it's merrick garland, what do you think? >> joe lieberman.

>> it's not an easy thing to stop an fbi investigation in its tracks, right, because they're a bunch of bulldogs. >> are they going to play harder now? >> this sort of thing tends to make them mad. i mean it does. it tends to make them mad. so i hope the president, from his point of view, put that into his calculation because it's not easy -- >> well he's trying to decapitate them by getting -- >> i mean the acting head of the fbi has now promised to come up to the hill and testify. >> mccabe. >> if there's any interference from the white house. >> mccabe is also vouching for comey now. >> mm-hmm. >> saying he was a respected leader. >> the key thing to what you said is the president still doesn't know what else they know. >> that's true. [ overlapping voices ] >> there's a whole nother universe of stuff that -- >> here's lester question to president trump about sally yates' testimony this week about michael flynn. >> general flynn is a part of this investigation as you know.

sally yates recently testified that the white house was notified that he had been compromised. he was at risk of being blackmailed. it was 18 days later that he was finally fired. during that 18 days, he had access, i assume, to all the nation's top secrets. one day you meet on the issue of comey. >> right. >> and you fire him in a humiliating way while he's sitting in a room with his colleagues and it's appearing on tv. >> because my white house counsel don mcgahn came back to me and didn't make is sound like he was -- and she actually didn't make it sound that way either in the hearings the other day, like it had to be done immediately. this man has served for many years. he's a general. he's, in my opinion, a very good person. i believe that it would be very unfair to hear from somebody who we don't even know and immediately run out and fire a

general. >> she was the acting attorney general at the time? >> my white house counsel came to me. they had, i believe, two meetings, and we ultimately fired. but we fired for a different reason. >> did you know that he had received payments from the russian government, that he had received payments from the turkish government? >> no. but obama perhaps knew because he had clearance from the obama administration, and his clearance -- and this is something they never want to report. he had clearance from the obama administration, the highest clearance you can have. >> you know, what i heard was we fired him for a different reason. >> uh-huh. >> that's what i think happened with comey. >> yeah, i know. >> we went after last year because we were worried about next year. >> mm-hmm. >> i think he gave away something right there. >> i think that's very true. i think that that's part of the problem. this narrative has a lot of parts that still have not -- >> where's reince your old

buddy, who succeeded you as chair of the republican party? he's supposed to be chief of staff. he's supposed to keep things organized and tell them what's going on. trump doesn't know what's going on the way we're looking at him. we all see him. he's like a little bug on the table. we know what he's doing. we know -- >> i think you're making an assumption there that he hasn't been informed or otherwise advised of what's going on and he's chosen to igener thnore th. the other part reported about the meeting the next day about the firing in the senior staff meeting, it was a line item saying, you've all heard about the news last night. moving on. clearly this white house has an attitude about this that they don't see not just the danger that's at the surface but how that's leaking down beneath the surface and rotting away the foundation of the administration. >> i smell steve bannon. i think he's back. >> i think he's never left. >> he never went away. >> to take somebody of that nationalistic, screw you, we run this place attitude to fire

people like this firing. by the way, there will be more firings because there's a lot of decent public servants out there. >> and they'll be quitting too on their own. >> they're not highly paid. they do the job for the country and they're not going to take this crap. thank you. coming up, did president trump use rosenstein as a fall guy? do you think so? maybe, in the russian caper. and the senate intel committee heard from acting director andrew mccabe. he testified comey had the support of the rank and file acts at the fbi. senator angus king and mike quigley who both sit on the congressional intelligence committees will be here to set the record straight. and more reaction tonight to lester holt's exclusive interview with president trump. you got to wonder, he showed up. i give trump that. he didn't have much to say that made sense but he did show up for lester. the "hardball" roundtable will be here to discuss it. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. he won't like this one either. this is "hardball," where the action is.

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president trump has signed an executive order establishing a commission to review alleged voter fraud and voter suppression. the presidential commission on election integrity will be spearheaded by vice president pence and focus on, quote, improper voting, fraudulent voter registrations and fraudulent voting. president trump has repeatedly made claims that the election was rigged against him and that he actually won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally. the panel which consists of both democrats and republicans is expected to meet for the first time within a few months. we'll be right back. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia

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so did the white house assertion that rod rosenstein decided on his own, after being confirmed, to review comey's performance? >> absolutely. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders yesterday. mark that name and that day, yesterday, saying it was attorney general rod rosenstein,

not president trump, who initiated the process which led to the firing of fbi director james comey. sean spicer also said late tuesday night that president trump did not direct the move, saying of rosenstein, it was all him. rosenstein. reports today not only contradict those statements but also reveal that rosenstein might be uncomfortable with the messaging from the white house you just saw. as "the washington post" reports on trump's meeting with the attorney general and his deputy, trump gave sessions and rosenstein a directive -- to explain in writing the case against comey. so they were told to do what they did. the post also reports that following comey's departure, rosenstein threatened to resign after the narrative emerging from the white house on tuesday evening cast him as a prime mover of the decision to fire comey and that the president acted only on his recommendation. well, in response two anonymous source as the justice department disputed that report telling nbc news that rosenstein did not threaten to resign. anyway, why would anybody go anonymous if they're defending the president of the united states? it makes no sense unless they're

embarrassed by their job. i'm joined by two of the authors of the "washington post," ashley parker, and robert costa. thank you both. yesterday it looked like and the day before, it looked like the president wanted everybody to think the president was simply playing an administerial role, that he was given a paper that said we got to get rid of comey because of what he did last year with hillary clinton, and sign off on it, mr. president. it will be done bureaucratically. today we find out that the president was like the boss. i made that decision before these gentlemen came in to see me. they may have made a recommendation, but my decision was made. which is it? these are dramatic developments. the vice president spent two days telling the wrong story. >> i think it's the latter. it's what the president said. he had already made up his mind to fire director comey well before he received that memo from the department of justice. >> why the cover story? why the fall guy? >> i think it's very tough. it's certainly politically

tricky to fire the director of the fbi when the fbi has an active, open investigation into if your campaign possibly was involved in collusion with the russian government. so i think originally it was a lot more palatable to say, you know, i was basically ordered to do this, you know, under the pretense of this directive and this agency telling him to do it. but as news reports sort of true story, you saw that narrative change, and then the president and his deputies came out and said what they said. >> robert, you heard the president. i don't know if you were listening to the program just a moment ago, but trump used those very words to describe another instance, where somebody used to i adifferent reason to get something done they wanted done. so the real reason i'm doing it over here, and in fact i'm doing it over here. that would be an explanation. he got rid of him because he's coming after him on russia. he doesn't give a nickel to what happened last year where hillary got hurt by the actions. why would he care now about what happened to hillary to help him get elected when he brought out that investigation 11 days before the election?

>> and of all the people involved, rosenstein, we're told in the course of our reporting, is alarmed that he's being seen as the impetus, that his rationale laid out in this memorandum provided to the president both in a conversation that began on monday and ended up in the memo on tuesday, he thinks the president and he knows that the president, based according to people who know him, made the decision long before that monday meeting with the attorney general and with rosenstein. then they used this monday meeting as a way to have some kind of cover for the decision when it was formalized. but as people on capitol hill were telling me just a few hours ago, they're really unhappy. a in the run party about how the white house handled it because they feel exposed. they were articulating this narrative that was laid out by the white house and then the president comes out in the lester holt interview and says it actually wasn't like that. >> do you know why they didn't ask him about that in the meeting with burr today and warner? why it didn't come up?

>> you mean the meeting with rosenstein? >> wasn't rosenstein up on the hill today and he didn't get asked about this? >> he was. >> how did that happen? it doesn't make sense, why he didn't take the opportunity to say, look, i didn't initiatei e this thing. >> there's a lot of scrutiny now. what's the senate intelligence committee going to do in the wake of comey? you already have the house intelligence committee have the problem of the chairman, devin nunes of california, recusing himself because of his alliance with the white house and the way all those events unfolded that you've deeply covered. now the pressure is on burr and the republican-controlled house and senate. how are they going to handle this white house? so far, they're falling in line publicly, but i'm telling you, chris, in the cloak room of the senate and the house -- the senate was in session today. when i was talking to some senators prately, they're grousing about the way this was handled at the white house, and they're saying they're going to have to politically, to cover themselves, do something it terms of furthering the

investigation. >> ashley, it's hard to get analysis. i know you can't deal with this as a straight reporter. it isn't about trump defending trumpism, looking out for the working class guy or concerns about illegal immigration. it's about trump himself covering his rear-end. i just wonder whether he really has the political cover that he's had on other issues now that it's him. it's about him. >> he certainly is losing the political cover in washington even as bob just said among republicans. they're increasingly frustrated, in part because they feel expos exposed. they feel they consequewent out parroted these talking points and then the white house did a 180. you have to keep in mind that for months, comey was sort of this -- the only bipartisan issue everyone could agree on was comey botched everything. but it is unclear if trump voters will turn on him for this. >> i just saw high noon, the old movie. when the marshal has to defend

himself, not the town anymore, the town doesn't care. it's tough business. but politics is about your interests, and i'm not sure the average s average -- anyway, thank you. the other irony is he may have been trying to do something good with russia. he may have been trying to end the war in syria by developing some footsie deal with putin that may have been for the interest of the united states. and in the beginning, he said i may have done that, and then he spent all these months covering up what he may have done for good. this is the weird thing, robert. you've been covering this guy when he first started to do this russian thing. and i wondered whether he's covering up something he shouldn't be covering up. he should have been saying from the beginning, i've been trying to cut a deal with russia for the interest of world peace. it's interesting. some guys get in huge trouble for doing the right thing because they do it wrong. anyway -- >> well, real quick, you have to separate trump's difference on

ideology. he's not a traditional republican hawk. he is thinking about russia in new ways. but that's a separate issue from russian interference and possible work with trump campaign associates. those are two different things related to russia. >> so true. the wrong way. he should have done it that way. thank you, ashley parker, robert costa. up next, with so many people crying foul on what we're hearing from the trump administration, the intelligence committees of both the house and the senate have their work cut out for them to flesh out the truth, don't you think? we're going to hear from members of both of those committees in a second -- actually a minute or so coming up here on "hardball." this is "hardball," where the action is. that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job.

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welcome back to "hardball." in order to justify the firing of a now former fbi director james comey, the white house has maintained that comey had lost the confidence of the bureau he led. however, in his testimony before the senate intelligence committee today, the acting fbi director, andrew mccabe, made it clear that the white house is wrong. >> is it accurate that the rank and file no longer supported director comey? >> no, sir, that is not accurate. director comey enjoyed broad support within the fbi and still does to this day. the vast majority of fbi employees enjoyed a deep and positive connection to director comey. >> i like this guy. the acting director also contradicted the administration when it comes to the size and scope of the ongoing russian

investigation which the white house has downplayed. >> yesterday a white house press spokesman said this is one of the smallest things on the plate of the fbi. is this a small investigation in relation to all the other work that you're doing? >> sir, we consider it to be a highly significant investigation. >> so you would not characterize it as one of the smallest things you're engaged in? >> i would not. >> i'm joined now by senator angus king of maine who sits only the senate intelligence committee. do you believe what comes out of the white house these days? >> no. i don't see how you can. we've had no rationalizations in the last 48 hours and both have proved untrue. the first one was it was based on the recommendation of rod rosenstein a memo. the president himself today said that wasn't true. then they talk about the fbi being a mess. they lost confidence, and the acting director said that wasn't true. i talked to a friend of mine, chris, of 30 years, who just retired as a senior official at

the fbi. he characterized those comments as nonsense and unbelievable, that comey is one of the most deeply respected men who has led the fbi in many, many years. and so they keep throwing out new rationales, and they keep being proven untrue. and it is disturbing. there's no doubt about it. >> well, here again is what donald trump says about james comey today in his interview with lester holt. let's watch. >> look, he's a showboat. he's a grandstander. the fbi has been in turmoil. you know that. everybody knows that. you take a look at the fbi a year ago. it was in virtual turmoil less than a year ago. it hasn't recovered from that. >> well, senator, he's trashing a guy he just fired. okay, that's pretty rough business. but he also said that comey on three different occasions told him he wasn't under investigation. do you believe that conversation, those three conversations ever occurred? >> there's no way to tell.

he was more specific on the lester holt interview about comey telling him that, director comey telling him that. it would surprise me that director comey would say something like that because, number one, the investigation isn't over. i don't know how he could make such an assertion. you know, we all have a tendency to hear what we want to hear, but i'd be very surprises. but give me a break. donald trump calling somebody a showboat and a grandstander? i got to tell you, comey doesn't come to congress because he volunteers and says i want to come. he is asked to come, invited to come by the various committees, and he is the antithesis of a showboat. when i talk to friend and they say what's comey like, the best word i can kuk come up with is y scout. i've gotten to know him. four years on the intelligence committee, i've probably been with him 10 or 15 times. he's a straight arrow and to talk about him being a

grandstander absolutely doesn't pass the straight face test, particularly coming from this president. >> so the president is the show boater and he's the boy scout. thank you, senator king for that interpretation. i'm joined by mike quigley of illinois who sits on the house committee. the question to you, congressman, do you believe what you're hearing from the white house, the president's various accounts of what he calls reality? >> i mean there's a pattern here of deflection, distraction, denial, and the fourth d that comes to mind with me is unfortunately, and if i can say this with respect, delusional. >> what do you think he -- he clearly doesn't want an investigation into whatever happened between his campaign people and the russians. that is just -- all the world -- i think if you look at the headlines in the world, they'll say that was the reason he fired the chief investigator of those relations. is there any more to this story than the obvious? >> well, look, let's look at the pattern. obviously he didn't like the

first open hearing in which director comey said there is an investigation. first time it was said publicly. and the director also said that there was russian hacking into this process and that they did it to help mr. trump and to hurt mrs. clinton. i'm sure he didn't like that. watch what happened around these times. that was the time in which the distraction began, when the president accused president obama of wiretapping trump tower. that's when another public hearing was canceled. it's when, you know, the excursions to the white house took place, the unmasking issues. anything to deflect from the reality of the situation. and let's just remember this week we had the testimony of ms. yates, who he can't fire anymore, and we had the revelation that the director was asking for more resources to complete this investigation. >> what do you think the impact was of ms. yates' performance

that we all watched on television and you watched it on the hill? what do you think the impact of that was on trump this week? >> yeah, i'm sure it wasn't his best day. the fact is whenever he's confronted with reality, he behaves poorly. she has brought the reality back to the situation, that the white house new far before they fired general yates, what had taken place, that he was susceptible to blackmail, that he had lied to them, and that there were other issues with him. they just can't accept the reality of the situation, and they certainly won't cooperate with this investigation. >> thank you so much, u.s. congressman mike quigley of illinois. up next, the "hardball" roundtable will tackle why we're getting so many mixed messages from the white house. plus they'll have reaction to what president trump told lester holt, which is on the news tonight. you're watching "hardball." it comes to technology, i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team.

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welcome back to "hardball." in a sit down interview today with lester holt, president

trump left some of his closest aides and allies holding the bag. yesterday the vice president told reporters seven times that trump fired comey because of rosenstein's recommendation. here are a few of them. >> the president took strong and decisive leadership here to put the safety and security of the american people first by accepting the recommendation of the deputy attorney general. because of the actions that the deputy attorney general outlined to the president. the american people expect a president to act on the recommendations of those within the administration who are charged with oversight. in this case, the deputy attorney general, when he brought the recommendation to the president that the director of the fbi should be removed, president trump provided the kind of strong and decisive leadership the american people have come to be accustomed from him. >> deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders was taken to task for her contradictory statements over the past two

days. here's what she said. >> in this process, i gave you the best information i had at the moment. i still don't think that it contradicts the president's decision. >> what seems to be clear here is we're witnessing a white house underwater and desperate for a lifeboat. i'm joined by our roundtable tonight, kathleen parker with "the washington post," clarence page, columnist for "the chicago tribune." all of you, i find it interesting that the president decided to come clean today, at least partially, and say that he wanted comey out of there for his own reasons. they weren't rosenstein's reasons. it had nothing to do with the little letters that were printed up for the occasion because if you listen to trump, he said sometimes people do thinks for different reasons than they admit. and he didn't quite admit it was about russia, but he dropped the whole cover story. he left that flying out the window. >> yeah, and i think people assume that's why he did it in the first place, that it was just a gut reaction. so for the white house staff all the way up to the vice president to come up with this

justification and then present it even if it seems disingenuous and to have trump come and wipe their legs out from under them is extremely frustrating. >> we're arguing, how do you pronounce the name? we figured out it was stein because you had to check with the fellow. in other words, his debut on the national stage, he's out there being used as a fall guy by the president. >> he's suddenly the guy responsible for this whole massacre. you know, no one doubts ever that trump does exactly what he wants to. he does the counterintuitive thing often. he seeps to hold his staff and even his vice president in contempt. it's sort of like, well, you guys really screwed up, but i'm in charge and this is how i do things, you know? even though it's -- i mean i feel sorry for them frankly because there's no guidance for them and they're kind of stuck -- >> who does he care about? his family? >> he cares about himself. >> i think he cares about ivanka and her husband and maybe a few of the other kids. >> he cares about people going out there and defending him on tv but he's put them in this

untenable position where it's almost impossible to do that. >> it's always, always about loyalty. people who work in the administration are required to sign an oath of loyalty. >> is this reporting you're giving us now? >> i have a friend who is leaving because she refused to sign this oath. >> that's not very american. >> no, it isn't, is it? there's a lot about this administration -- >> your oath is to our country under the constitution. that's your first responsibility as a citizen generally, but as a public official, it's your prime responsibility, clarence. >> these are non-disclosure agreements. that's what he's referring about. he really cares about those people who will care about him, but he also cares about being in control. i think that was the big frustration with comey because he's under control of nobody. that's why both right and left have reasons to have grudges against him. >> the one thing you have to agree on comey because he's disliked by so many people is he is his own person. i think he's loyal to the agency, and they got caught in that lie today, and it was a lie to say that he somehow not

respected by the troops. mccabe said right to the camera, yes, he is respected. >> he was in a very tough position as well where if he had withheld the information going back to why the left hates him, if he had withheld the information about the clinton investigation and then something were to have come out after the election, then they would have piled on him. now he's in the sort of opposite position. >> kathleen, respond to this. this is an amazing interview and we're proud of it. here's an exchange with lester holt and president trump on the current investigations into russia. we're going right into the heart here. let's watch. >> when you put out tweets, it's a total hoax. it's a taxpayer charade and you're looking for a new fbi director, are you not sending this person a message to lay off? >> no, i'm not doing that. i think that we have to get back to work. but i want to find out -- i want to get to the bottom. if russia hacked, if russia did anything having to do with our election, i want to know about it. >> well, there's already intelligence from virtually every intelligence agency that, yes, that happened.

>> i'll tell you this. if russia or anybody else is trying to interfere with our elections, i think it's a horrible thing, and i want to get to the bottom of it, and i want to make sure it will never, ever happen. >> you know, i was thinking of the east german inquizitions in the lives of others and i'm just wondering, i'd love to study that tape over and over again. when trump is telling the truth, when he's making up stuff, when he's scared, there's so much facial stuff going on. >> that would have been a reasonable thing for him to say six months ago, eight months ago, but we've all known this. i'd like to introduce the president to "the washington post," for example, the newspaper, that he could read and know this for a fact. >> know what? >> that we were hacked and that this did happen, that russia -- >> he denied the fbi is investigating it. [ overlapping voices ] >> suddenly he wants to get to the bottom of this. that's what everyone around him is trying to do, and he's doing everything he can to -- >> how can he deny that the fbi is investigating him, which he did? he said they may be working for

the house or senate but they're not really doing it on their own, i don't think. >> he said, i don't even know if there's an fbi investigation. >> he's trying to say they're investigating his campaign but not him, which he's a central figure. that's a real stretch. >> anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. we'll be back. when a critical patient is far from the hospital, the hospital must come to the patient. stay with me, mr. parker. the at&t network is helping first responders connect with medical teams in near real time... stay with me, mr. parker. ...saving time when it matters most. stay with me, mrs. parker. that's the power of and.

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we're back with the roundtable. the "hardball" roundtable. ken, tell me something i don't know. >> in the absence of any specific information from the fbi about what they're looking into in regards to trump's team and their ties to russia, there's a lot of speculation out there today the fbi raided a gop consulting firm in annapolis, maryland. all the speculation was it was either tied to trump, his campaign, or paul manafort. i did some investigating on that. >> who was it? >> absolutely no ties. >> who was in annapolis? >> it's a firm called strategic -- campaign strategic group. >> who's the bold faced name in that community? >> the one guy they were looking at is a guy who used to work with charlie black, so there was some thought -- >> black, manafort and stone? that firm is unbelievable. >> mine is easy and quick. aetna, the third largest insurance company, has decided to drop all of their insurance programs in obamacare exchanges. >> that's pleasant news. >> big one. oh, you mentioned earlier that

the trump administration is having a commission on voter fraud. >> oh, yeah, i really believe that one. >> yeah. the democrats are preparing to deal with whatever that means, targeting areas where voter registration and other impediments might be enforced. they've been doing this for the last couple of election cycles, so they're getting pretty good at it. >> i heard there's like 30 illegal voters in the country. thank you. >> that's about right. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." liberty mutual stood with me

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trump watch, thursday, may 11th, 2017. these are the times that try trump's soul. he spent the last several hours trying to regain a story -- regain control of a story he created himself. did he fire james comey? for two days he had his people paid by the government, working for him, putting out this story that he was only following the recommendation of the deputy attorney general. he simply accepted that guy's recommendation. well, today when lester holt asked him for the truth, trump said he himself wanted the fbi director fired. after two days of having the deputy a.g. be the fall guy, trump admitted he was the one who wanted to get rid of the fbi director. well, there was another trump fib flying around today, that comey had lost the confidence of his agents in the fbi. oh, yeah? it turns out the man who replaced comey has shot down

that notion saying comey had great respect among the fbi's agent citizen. so there. we come to the third complaint. he said that james comey told him on three occasions that he was not the subject of an fbi investigation into his dealings with russia. given what trump said about comey on the other related questions, it is hard to believe this one, isn't it? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i had a dinner with him. he wanted to have dinner because he wanted to stay on. >> an nbc news exclusive. >> did you call him? >> in one case i called him. >> president trump admits he called the fbi director to find out if he was under investigation. >> did you ask him, am i under investigation? >> i actually asked him, yes. i said if it's possible, would you let me know am i under investigation? >> tonight, did the president just admit to obstruction of justice? sk