improve health care in this country. we've made tremendous progress. it has helped reduce the ranks of the uninsured by millions. more than any other provisions since medicare. do you know what? they don't want to do that. >> i'm running out of time. i have one second. joe lieberman, yes or no? yes or no? >> no. we don't need politicians. >> thank you very much. that will wrap it up for me this hour in ten seconds. catch our new show debuting tomorrow afternoon called velshi and ruehl. er and speaking of ali velshi, he will pick things up right. now it is one to see you. i'm sorry we're not in the same studio to say hello. >> i thought i would be taking over right near you. have a fantastic afternoon. we begin with president trump's first foreign trip and it is a

biggy. he has just departed on air force one. he is going to belgium and italy and the vatican. president trump tweeted earlier today, getting ready for my big foreign trip. will be strongly protecting american interests. that's what i like to do. on sunday, president trump will deliver a much anticipated speech. h.r. mcmaster recently gave as you preview of what we can expect. >> he will meet and have lunch with leaders of more than 50 muslim countries where he will deliver an inspired, yet direct speech on the need confront radical ideology and his hopes, the president's hopes for a the vision of islam to dominate across the world. the speech is intended to unite the broader muslim world against common enemies of all civilization. to demonstrate america's commitment to our muslim partners. >> the president's speech might be a complicated pitch given his

past statements about muslims. donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> i think islam hates us. there's something there that is a tremendous hatred there. >> all this as washington is abuzz with news of robert mueller being appointed special counsel. this after trump fired fbi director james comey. are deputy attorney general rod rosenstein. we'll bring you some key details from today's briefing and reaction from lawmakers who are there. that's coming in just a moment. first we're getting new details from the "new york times" about how president trump reaching out to comey made comey feel uneasy.

the times report made him so uneasy that he wore a dark blue suit at the white house event in an attempt to blend into the curtain so the president wouldn't see him. clearly comey's tumors stay hidden from the president didn't work. meanwhile, slamming the big bad media staying trump is trying to sabotage his agenda. congressman elijah cummings is saying the opposite. >> if there is any moment that the press in our country's history has a major role, it is this moment. this is your moment. you have to put it out there so people can understand what is going on. i have said it before and i'll say it again. this is about the fight for the soul of our democracy. we cannot afford to lose this one. >> we have, as you can see, a lot to get to at this hour. let's start with hans nickols.

this is just one of three times we'll talk this hour. let's start with the foreign trip. the first foreign trip. very atypically, saudi arabia, normally it is mexico or canada. the airplane has just left. what are you thinking we're going on get out of this for the next few days? >> we know the wants wants to achieve and that's a bit of a reset and a chance to change the scene if not the subject. they want to talk about the fight against global terrorism. the president preparing the battlefield on that. talking about that. we've heard from senior administration officials that they want a number of deals that they'll announce with saudi arabia and they see it as an opportunity to speak to the, three of the great, three great world religions. that's their goal. on all of this, the opportunity for mistakes, the pit falls are there at almost every step. you have logistical problems, strategical problems and you can always have messaging problems.

so trips are always high wire acts. >> stay where you are. get shade if you like but i'll come back to you. joining me now, a correspondent for pbs news hour. he just interviewed a close friend of james comey. the man's name is benjamin whit. he is quoted in the "new york times" report that we just mentioned about james comey dressing like the curtains. thank you for being with us. let's talk about this conversation with mr. whit. he told you about james comey being remarkably uneasy, generally with association with presidents, not the just president trump. >> that's right. he had something important to say. as he journalist, a writer, a national security expert. for months now he's had an ongoing friendship with james comey. and he would have phone calls and occasional meal with the fbi

director in the midst of all of this ongoing tumult of this investigation. the overarching impression that he says comey gave to him was, that he felt an enormous amount of pressure from the trump administration to bring comey into the fold. to get him to kiss the ring. to in some ways on, to trump's spied apparently made the fbi director very, very uncomfortable. >> let's play a little of the interview we're referring to. let's listen to that. >> so he went and it is actually a funny story. he really wanted to blend in and not be singled out. he is 6'8". >> tough to do that when you're 6'8", it is really hard to blend in. if you watch the video, he is wearing a blue blazer and he stands in the part of the room that is as far from trump as it

is physically possible to be. and also against blue draymond that's are the same color as his -- >> he chose that spot? >> he chose that spot because it was, you know, almost like a chameleon, camouflage against the wall. and then right at the end, trump singles him out in a fashion that he regarded as sort of calculated to max maly drive home this sensitivity among democratic voters, which is to say, i forget the exact quote. may, look, he is even more famous than i . >> he's become even more famous than me. >> and he extends his arm preemptively and trump grabs the arm and pulls him into a hug. but the hug is entirely one-sided and comey was just completely disgusted. >> disgusted? >> disgusted by the episode. he thought it was an intentional

attempt to compromise him in public in a way that would, that would so emphasize concern that's half the electorate had about him and the bureau. >> an interesting discussion. in fact, some have used this to suggest that comey went into this administration with reservations about trump that he may not have had about president obama. he may not have kept the same memos and notes. we don't know that to be true. did comey not like trump? or was this just comey working hard to not get co-opted or sucked in? >> it was the latter. wittis goes to great lengths to say this was not animus toward trump. he also didn't like the pressure over the months at events like we just saw. but there is a story about james comey being instritd play

basketball with then president obama and he didn't want to do that. he thinks there should be a bright line between the president and the head of the fbi regardless of party. it is also important to note that this moment that we just saw, this was just a few days after the inauguration. the city of d.c. had just filled for the inauguration. it was going to be filled with tens of thousands of protesters against the president and a lot of people at the time, a lot of democrats believed that james comey was in large part responsible for hillary being defeated, and for president trump being elected. so that in some way added to the sensitivity that he felt, like i don't want to be seen as president trump's guy. i have to have my distance. >> good to talk to you. thank you for bringing this to us. all right. for more, i want to bring in ambassador wendy sherman, director of political affairs under president obama. the lead negotiator for the iran nuclear deal. also, eliana johnson who is the national political reporter for

politico. welcome to both of you. thank you for being with us. let's start with you, wendy. this trip abroad. i want to play a clip of adam kensinger talk about the trip on morning joe. >> it could be an opportunity to really kind of reset on these issues. what i've said is, the president, i wish we could take twitter away from him. i wish he would discipline what he said way more. but his possiblicies have been pretty solid. >> so i'll put this to you, is that what you see this possibly being? there are a few things this trip could be about. particular when i the saudi side. is it a reset? >> well, i think we would all be delighted if in fact we saw a new president trump, one who listened, one who learned, one who understood that he is not just donald trump. he is president of the united states. all of these leaders try to treat him with respect.

they expect respect back. they all have their own domestic politics. when it comes to this first stop in saudi arabia, i think he'll be treated extremely well. the saudis see an opportunity here. there will be a big arms sale that will be good for the president in terms of lockheed martin and other companies moving forward. but at the same time, they'll be leaders from the entire islam world including indonesia. the largest muslim nation in the world. and they have some things to say to donald trump. it may be said in private. we need to make sure we don't have a bar that's too low. if he gets through without any gaffes, without any mistakes, that we consider this a success. we should expect more than that from the president of the united states and i hope he comes through. >> you had a role in the iran negotiations. this has really been important to the gulf arab muslim

countries who have really felt that the obama administration's move toward this iran deal has really, really undermined a longstanding relationship, both with the saudis and the arab gulf countries. it does seem like donald trump is more sympathetic to that view than president obama was. >> yeah. it is really an incredibly interesting time this trip is taking place. of course, iran is voting today and there has been such a turnout that they have extended the hours of voting at midnight. they will have to stop because that's the law. it all has to be done today. but they have kept the election places open. so this is going to be quite an election even though it is circumstance up described by the guardian counsel who can run. nonetheless, the iranians have poured out. it is a very important election because we might get less of a hard liner in rouhani, or more of a hard lien in the major

opponent and we could get into a game of chicken between president trump and the new president of iran, who will push the other to walk away from the deal first. >> i'm going on interrupt you for a second. we and you to hold on. we've got some breaking news now. as the plane was taking off, two pieces of reporting came out from the "new york times" and the "washington post." the first from "the new york times" is that president trump apparently told the russian officials with whom he met in the white house that james comey was a nut job and that firing him took a lot of pressure off the president. we have reporting from the "washington post." i want to go back to the white house where handles nichols has been following the story. you've been taking it in as it is happening. let's start with "the new york times." >> both of these are explosive reports. on the "new york times" one it is alleging that president donald trump was boasting in the oval office to russian counter parts about dismissing james

comey, the director of the fbi. he dismissed him on march 9. the meeting with kis lag and sergei lavrov happening may 10. now we are have reached out to the white house. they are not disputing this report. they are providing with us a statement similar to that which they provided to the "new york times," talking about how the president wants to work with russia. how he thinks the real threat is isis in syria and that has always been his goal. i think what this tells us is three important things. number one, it is clear that president trump wants to work russia and will almost trip on himself to try to impress them. number two, his instincts are wrong. at least in the oval office, wave transcript of this, he is saying that firing james comey had make the russia investigation go away. that he has taken care of that. facts have not borne that out. and number three, this is an important opponent.

president trump is dealing with something other presidents haven't necessarily had to deal with. that is a remarkable amount of leaking within his own administration. i've covered the previous two idents. you just didn't get readouts of things that the president of the united states was saying to his foreign leaders, not in real-time but at least ten, 12 days later. you had to wait weeks if not months, years for that to come out. so as the white house focused and you saw a little of this in previous press conferences on the so-called deep state and what they're up against. i think it has to be acknowledge that had there are folks in the white house that are leaking things are not advantageous to the president and that's a reality he'll have to deal with. >> i want to take a breath and think about this for a second. first, we had this reporting on apparently president trump referring to james comey as a nut job and telling russian fwls whom he met in the oval office that the firing of james comey will erase the pressure on the

russia investigation. now, possibly potentially. more serious is brand new reporting out of the "washington post" that the investigation into the relationship between trump administration, the trump campaign and russia now reaches as high as somebody who works in the white house. what do you have on this? >> only what the "washington post" is reporting. and we again have not independently confirmed this. so we need to be careful. we haven't been able to make the calls because it is happening so quick will. the investigation is not just touching trump associate that's may have had a tertiariy relationship with the campaign or may have been involve at a certain opponent but actually an official working inside the white house right now. that, ali, brings the investigation to just steps from where i am and steps from the oval office. it is yet another indication that the president wasn't quite right in that oval office meeting with the russians on may 10 that the russian investigation will go away.

it is here. it has robert mueller leading it. it is an independent special counsel and this will be a serious issue they'll have to deal with. they wanted to get away from thought in saudi arabia. when you have special prosecutors going after them in the white house, they have on lawyer up, figure out what's going on and that's a big albatross on any administration. >> i want to bring wendy sherman back, eliana johnson from politico. this changes the course of our conversation a little bit. something hans just said. the white house is not disputing the account as reported by "the new york times" and they have provided us here at nbc with a statement. let me lead to to you in its entirety. the president has always emif a sissed the importance of making als with russia, syria, ukraine, dealing with isis. by grand standing and

politicizing the investigation into russia's actions, james comey created unnecessary pressure on our ability to engage and negotiate with russia. the investigation would have always tenned and obviously the termination of comey would not have ended it. once again the real story is that our national security has been undermined by the leak go of private and highly classified conversations. this is a technique this administration has used when faced with compromising information. it is not about the substance of the accusation. it is about the leak. >> absolutely. it is a tremendous concern. people shouldn't leak classified information. i think we would all agree with that. at the same time, we understand if you were working in government and something is going on that you think is really, undermines the constitution. united states, you have to take consequences of leaking that information if you were discovered. but a lot of people feel they have a duty to put information

out in whatever way they can. we've had many cases in our history including the famous elsburg report in the vietnam area. i think what is really, really concerning is that the president of the united states is now about to go this trip that you are talking about. when he goes to europe, they care about russian aggression. they care about what russia has done in the ukraine, how they put pressure on the baltics. how they are trying to reclaim the soviet union and put pressure on the europeans. we may want russia to work with us on counter terrorism. but they haven't today. in syria, it is ball propping up assad, not one bit about isil and the president is kidding himself if he thinks it is otherwise. >> i was going to get to you and talk about whether or not the president would achieve the goals that he wanted to on this trip. and in the span of a few minutes, that question has become entirely irrelevant.

this is going on dominate at least the next 18 hours of what we talk about. >> absolutely. your first question was, will the president be able to reset the conversation and get away with the physical distance from the u.s.? will he be able to leave the scandals behind? and the answer to that is obviously no. there is really a sense in washington that these back to back to back to back breaking news stories, a sense that these scandals and stories are kind of spinning out of control. and i think it is significant here that the white hse press secretary did not deny "the new york times" reporthere. and i think you're starting to see white house officials less willing to come out and defend the president because i think there's a fear in the white house of the president going out and undermining they will the very next day.

he's made it very difficult for his allies to defend him with all the talk of the palace intrigue, who is getting connected out and who is getting voted off the island, in this case, you're not going to put everything you've got into defending the president if you think you mean and pendable. >> i think that's right. the president has done this to himself. these are things he's said, and yes, behind closed doors. both things can be true that these things shouldn't leak out but it is also true the president shouldn't have said this. >> stand by. the author of the explosive "washington post" story is here with us now. that somebody in the white house is under investigation for what? >> we understand that this investigation into russian meddling in the 2016 election has escalated. you're going to see subpoena.

now the focus is someone inside the white house. so for exactly what, i'm not sure. we're working to can you be firm who the person is but we understand it is for the president and for conduct tied up in this investigation into meddling. >> do we know what investigation this is? we have about four different investigations going on in the house and now the special counsel. i imagine it is not robert mueller'snvestigation because that's just gun. there's the fbi investigation. who is honed in on this? >> this stems from the fbi investigation. robert mueller won't start from scratch. he will take over the investigation that law enforcement was running. he could bring in new members but that's the investigation we're talking about. the law enforcement investigation.

>> this complicates matters for the white house. when someone is under investigation and if someone gets a subpoena in the white house, they do have to get a lawyer and they do then to have operate under certain rules which don't allow they will to be coached by the white house or the white house counsel on what to say. >> i think that's a very good point. some people in the white house have lawyers. i know jared kushner has a hair and i would expect you might see more of that in the coming weeks. >> have you gotten a response, we got a response to the "new york times" story about president trump calling james comey a nut job. >> they've said at the end of the day this will lead nowhere. they wouldn't necessarily know. they probably shouldn't know the

intimate facts of the investigation so i wouldn't expect them to say anything else. >> what happens, your reporting indicates that one person in the white house. do we know anything about if it is a senior person? >> yeah. a senior person. >> all right. thank you for your reporting on. this don't go anywhere. we've got wendy sherman and eliana johnson as well and hans nichols. are we going to a break? no. we're going to continue this. all right. the white house has responded to nbc. the white house did not jump to its normal response when it comes to reports often by the "new york times" that it is nonsense. president trump this morning talking about fake news once again. that this is all a campaign by fake news to sabotage his presidency. strangely, in this particular case with respect to the comments made to the russians by president trump, the white house did not refute the allegations.

>> well, it could be that it is just a very difficult one to deny. it looks like the "new york times" has a transcript. if they have a transcript and the white house isn't denying it, then it is almost futile to try to spend your way around it. what they're trying to do is say this is a president that wants to work russia on a variety of issues and he's been very public about that. that's the brunt of the statement they released to us. i'm going on usurp your role and and matt a question if he is still with us. >> matt is actually, unfortunate will he, had to go. he is still working that. >> i want to know, do they know who the senior person is? >> he said their still trying to run down exactly who it is. i think his words were they're trying to get confirmation on who it is. that's a good question. that will be a big development once they confirm who it is in the white house that's under

investigation. the president made a comment the other day in a news interview that all of this stuff around the fbi in particularly around special counsel, makes america look weak and disorganized. i'm making up the words here in the face of the world. he now leaves on his first foreign mission with this. he will land and this will be the story that is circulating around the world. how does this affect his mission? >> undoubtedly. the checks and balances in our system are real. that ought okautocracies and di ships don't last. that said, this is going to dog him. if there is a drip, drip, drip of story every sent day, this will make it very tough. this is not to say that leaders

won't engage with him. they will because he is the president. let alone donald trump which they will set aside at some level and this is the first time. and they don't know where the will all go. at the same time, it will eat at the substance of this trip and the work that needs to get done will be much, much harder to get done. and all the reporters, both the domestic and international, will and questions about what gets reported he have day in the "new york times" and the "washington post." the president may not want to answer them. to move forward national security of the country but this is in fact part of the security of our country. >> the stand by, i have a statement from the white house referring to the "washington post" story. sean spicer has put out a statement. as the president has stated before, a thorough investigation will confirm that there was no collusion between campaign and any foreign entity. let me bring in senator ed

markee standing by,enor from massachusetts. "the new york times" reporting that drurm told sergei kislyak and lavrov that firing james comey will relieve a lot of xsh the white house not moving back from that reporting. >> these are two seismic revelations. this is an inflection point in the entire russia solution investigation. it makes it very clear that what donald trump was trying to do was to end the russian investigation. it had nothing 22nd hillary clinton's e-mails. and the fact law enforcement officials are now reaching into the white house as part of its investigation means that now, the question of what did the

president know and when did he know it about the russian relationship with his campaign, with his transition team and his administration are going to be the key questions that must be answered by the president himself and all of the officials that were part of his campaign and of transition team, so that the american people can know whether or not we actually had an attempt by the russians to compromise our elections. and whether or not we are now in, and beginning a constitutional crisis in the united states of america. >> senator casey just tweeted, if there is any question whether or not why comey was really fired, donald trump just answered it. i'm not sure if the president did fire james comey because he was either a nut job or he needed to relieve pressure on the russia investigation, why the people he would choose to tell would be the russian

bassador and the russian foreign minister. so the whole thing seems very, very strange. but what is your role? what are the members of congress to do? >> this escalates to yet another level. we have to make sure that bob mueller gets all the resources he needs as part of this investigation. to get every part of this story so the american people get all the information they need. and we have to further intense identify our congressional investigations to ensure that we get all the information about anything in the counter intelligence area that the russians were investigating in that campaign. all of this becomes absolutely clear that the american people have to have to make a decision that this president and the election that got him elected. right now, the president has told the russians more about our

secrets with isis, the russians more about why he fired james comey than he has actually told the american people themselves. >> a colleague of mine said the president has called kim jong-un a smart cookie and called james comey a nut job. thank you. >> everybody else is with me. stick around. we're going to take -- we're not going to take a break. we have two breaking news stories right now. "the new york times" apparently has a transcript of the meeting between president donald trump and the two russian officials. in which the president allegedly said that jas comey is a nut job and firing hims going to relieve pressure on the russia investigation. at the same time, and this happened moments after air force one took off for the president's first foreign trip, the

"washington post" is reporting that a current white house official is a significant person of interest in the investigation into the trump administration and trump campaign and its relationship to russia. to both those issues, the white house has not disputed "the new york times" story about what donald trump said to the russians. to the second story, it is a. more vague response from the white house, from sean spicer saying that as the president has stated before, a thorough investigation has stated there is no collusion between the campaign and any foreign entity. this is remarkably important, however. because if someone in the white house, if a senior member of the white house is subpoenaed, that person will have to cloister themselves to some degree. they will to have get independent legal advice and no longer able to take counsel from the white house counsel, don mcgann. hans nickol is at the white

house. i have wendy sherman, and eliana johnson for politico. i want to and you, i know our reporting that handles and i have been working on. what are you pursuing at politico on this? because as senator markee said, this has taken the whole issue of russia into an entirely new category. >> that's absolutely right. i've been sitting in this chair the whole time so i haven't been able to look at what my colleagues are doing. i would put these stories into two different categories. one, the "new york times" story. anybody who followed trump on the campaign would be shocked to know that he said something endiscreet to the russian ambassador and the russian foreign minister in the oval office. so doing it in the oval office takes it to a new level. if bob mueller's investigation

shows there was collusion between trump associates and russia, and that one of those associates is in the white house, that really could spell the end of the trump presidency. that story resides in a different category and is extremely significant. i don't think we can emphasize that enough. >> i think she's right. nonof russ surprise that had donald trump called someone a nut job. but the idea that he inferred to the russians that the firing of james comey releases pressure on him as it relates to the russia investigation, that takes to it a different level. >> it takes to it a different level. yes. he shared highly classified information about the russians and noted right to do in terms of intelligence etiquette and because a partner of ours had given us russia intelligence and told us not to share it and it was not even shared to our government. so it takes it to a new level

and playing right into the russians' hands. putin must be having a field day at home as he watches all of this. the president of the united states is basically saying, ha ha ha, we've gotten rid of that investigation. you and i can go forward together. well, quite frankly, most of the world doesn't want the united states going forward into the future with russia. it is not that there haven't been times we can work with them. we certainly have. but with their behavior around the world, putin is a kgb agent. he has always been. reremains one and he has put several things over on the united states and the world has watched. >> thanks so much for joining us. hans, let me go to you and get an update. for viewers who have just joined us. leave the minutes ago, he came to you to talk about what your expectations were for this first foreign represent the moments

after air force one had taken off. within moments, the entire story has challenged. one story from the "new york times" and the other from the "washington post." saying a current senior white house sfl a person of interest in the russia probe. tell us where we go from here. >> in the way the post one is easier to digest. they have a person of interest and it is inside the white house. that's very troubling. the reporter that broke it suggested it is a high level person. we don't know the name. we'll see if we get closer to that. it is only 3:45. it is usually 5 xlok all the news comes out. to me the times story is interesting in other ways. the entire investigation being led me robert mueller, what was the president's intent? in legal terms, it is mens rea. the president wanted to get rid

of the current fbi director because of the russia investigation. now going back to the reporting on the comey memo. seems the contemporaneous memos are ad missible into court. the big question we have booms what trump was trying to do. was he trying to obsuct justice, what his intent was. we don't know in firing comey but at least in this readout of the conversation from the russians, it looks like it is pretty clear from this one account. as a reporter, and i think you feel same way when something like the breaks. your first emotion is really come ppetitive anger. you're trying to reverse engineer it. remember a couple days ago the russians hinted that they had a recording. it turns out wasn't a ready roing. it could have come from the other side as well. the initial story on russia. in conversation with lavrov and

kislyak had 22nd donald trump potentially betraying a foreign intelligence asset which we later learned was israel. we had mcmaster come to the camera saying it was wholly whoemt, a phrase he used several times. it looks like the "new york times" has some sort of transcemetery of that may 10 meeting in the oval office. it will either exonerate or frankly implicate president trump on what he told the russians, vis-a-vis syria and the threat. >> and you and i have been back and forth talking about there was some very specific goal the president had in going to saudi arabia. and part of that was that they are going to announce what the white house is calling the biggest arms, u.s. arms sale in history. $110 billion in arms. that was in part designed to dhaeng narrative. these were american companies,

lockheed martin, selling arms, that's a lot of arms. this narrative will challenge before the president's plane lands. >> i think they have an easier chance of getting a drink in saudi arabia as they do making the story about arms sales and isis. these two scoops going out. recall when george w. bush was in china for the olympics in 2008. everybody wants, he wanted to talk about supporting the usa team and ra ra. it turns out the press spent the whole time reporting the war between georgia and r. so this isn't unique to president trump. presidents don't get a blank slate to talk about what ever they want. their still victims of a news what a news cycle this is. i don't know how long air force one has connect evident in theary. but at a certain opponent they

lose cable tv when they go over the atlantic. we'll see when they lands, i think they'll have a lot of questions from the press corps that's already there. >> the president has largely been the controller of the message. when he hasn't, he has grown frustrated and angry with those responsible for put pick message out. particularly when it is not done in an orderly fashion. this is now the definition of not being in control of two major messages the white house has to deal with and still thinking they'll go there and talk about the fight against isis and all of these things. at this possibility, it is derailed and the conversation will have to shift to who is under investigation? we'll probably figure that out. swn will get frozen out. once they figure out who is under investigation, that person will have to go their own way. >> to be a fly on the wall inary force one right now would be something. we've seen in these crises since the campaign, follow a familiar

pattern. where there's some sort of significant accomplishment. and the president manages to step on the news by saying something. we heard over and over in the campaign, if hillary clinton could just she would make a comment about the deplorable and trump would step on the news by making it about himself. then he lashes out at his aides for their lackluster communication abilities. seizes control of the messaging himself. he thinks he does it better than they do. that's precisely what happened last week and i think it is what we can expect to happen when he touches down for this foreign trip. however, when he does that, he exacerbates the communication crisis. because he is actually not the most adept communicator. it worked during the campaign for him. but it has not worked for him when he has been in the west wing and in the oval office. >> so when you look at all this information has come out in the

last 40 minutes, the "new york times" story about what donald trump said to the russians about james comey, and i'm with you on the fact no one is getting too sbhokd the fact he called him a nut job. but the second part, that it has relieved pressure on the investigation versus the news that some senior official in the white house may be a person of interest and under investigation as a result of these ties to russia, what do you think the, they're doing on air force one right now? what is the bigger problem? >> i think his staff is trying on get his cell phone away from him and crafting a disciplined men. message discipline has been the biggest problem with tmp and his aides from the time he launched his campaign. so they'll be focusing on maintaining, crafting a message and keeping control of that message once he touches down on the ground. a huge challenge for trump who likes the take control of things

and seizes control from his aides. >> on a foreign trip, they exercise more control over the press than at home. because the press has to travel in a pool and sort of on a predetermined schedule. if he wants to avoid questions, he can do that. >> i think his avoidance of questions on this trip may magnify the story. what we've seen for the past nine days or so, there's been a story breaking in the late afternoon about every day. so i think we have to assume there are more stories breaking. there's really a stand-off between the president and people in the white house and people in the intelligence community, where i think we see some of his aides and members of the intelligence community blarmd what they're seeing and leaking to the press. the president doesn't seem well matched against people who want to get this information out there. he doesn't seem, in calling comey a nut job to russians in the oval office, he doesn't seem like somebody who people say, he's 70.

heon't change. he also doesn't seem enclined to learn what sort of appropriate comment to make once you're president, as opposed to a candidate. are barack obama didn't have a tremendous amount of experience either. i think the difference is he certainly wanted to learn what was an appropriate they know on say and what wasn't. that is causing trump a tremendous amount of trouble right now. >> eliana makes the point that we're an hour and 15 minutes from when the news usually drops. but youade a the opponent, we don't know where "the new york time information about that conversation came from. and there are few options. just run through with me how it is "the new york times" would have information with what donald trump said to sergei kislyak and lavrov. when there were no reporters in that room.

>> it's binary. it is coming from the russian side and mr. putin hinted they had a recording. it turned out the translation was a little funny. wasn't an exact recording. and typically there are note takers inside these meetings. we know there are note takers because the initial "new york times" story about, the intelligence leak about, the isis plot that they gave fro a foreign intelligence asset who latere learned was israel. they tried to clean up some transcripts and it went through an interagency process. the homeland security security adviser couldn't tacted counter parts because there may have been a record of this. one thing about the president being abroad when something like the breaks. when you're traveling with the president, you have more, a assess directly to him. he is doing photo ops, he is laying wreaths, he is in a variety of places where the press pool can and questions.

so in some ways, it would be more difficult for president trump to hide when he is abroad. a chase plane, a chart he plane, as well as the group always with him on air force one than at the white house. as we saw last week, he was essentially dark for five dats. it is impossible to go dark when you're abroad. >> andrea, let's to go this talk about what happened in the white house. sergei kislyak is the russian ambassador to the united states. but sergei lavrov, second to the left, now on the left of the screen. he is sort of a dean of the international diplomatic community. this is a guy who never says a word that hasn't been considered. so one wonders what this picture looks like with donald trump saying things like fbi director james comey was a nut job and

now we're clear of pressure because he's gone. what do you make of this? >> it is extraordinary. one of the craziest things i've ever heard. it shows the inexperience of this president to have scheduled th meeting, to have not had the american press in the meeting. but to have photographers shooting it for the russians. vladimir putin already in sochi two days ago was making fun of it and laughing and lavrov was in the front row and saying that he had a transcript. he probably didn't have a transcript but they had a note taker. and lavrov was sitting in the front row laughing and putin was saying, you held out on me. you didn't tell me all those classified, those secrets they were telling you. and if they want, i can help president trump by presenting a transcript and telling congress. now we learned in addition to

offending the israelis, disclosing classified information, an irritant already in this trip with him going to israel monday and tuesday, but that he said this extraordinary thing about why he fired james comey. in an investigation in which the ambassador, kislyak, is a central figure. >> your expression says it all. your expression says it all. to hanls' point, the white house has not been particularly effective at getting on the same page quickly when they have a crisis. the president is now on the plane and there is a pool that will be traveling with him. how do you see ts unfolding? becae the president expected to land in saudi arabia with a message of business deals and fighting isis. does this derail his business deal? >> they have overrun a lot of

coverage. in riyadh he is completely closed off from the press. there are no events. everything is the tightest pool imaginable. there will be no access to the president at all. i can only imagine what this fight over is like. already there were so many factions about sean spicer being upstaged, perhaps by his deputy, sarah sanders, and then you have ivanka and jared kushner and steve miller and bannon. steve mill here has been known for a lot of the anti-islamic rhetoric of the campaign, writing a speech of outreach to the arab world. the reception in riyadh will be extraordinarily friendly. it is always very closed there. it is difficult on cover foreign leaders. american presseses traveling in riyadh and the saudis will have it all buttoned down. this will be a big welcome for

him. he is not barack obama and they we so resentful of barack obama. they're going to do a $110 billion deal. defense purchases. >> which is adeal. >> -- is calling it the biggest arms sale -- when i was looking -- i was talking to han str s about this this morning, i didn't know -- that is a massive deal. >> but the other piece of it is that they're going to be announcing an anti-terrorism center which, frankly, been proposed, there was a memorandum of understanding from the obama state department, but it was never signed off by president obama. so it is picking up an idea that had been pitched previously by the state department, and that is going to be unveiled. it's something that the -- that riyadh and the persian gulf countries really want. so, also, the unfortunate invitation to president bashir of sudan, a man accused of genocide, a war criminal, a wanted man, has been dis inviin

by the saudis, so he is not going to be another possible problem for the american president to be at the same summit as president bashir of sudan known for the darfur genocide. so, there are a lot of reasons why riyadh is going to be a very positive trip, unless president trump says something as inexplicable as what has been reported by "the new york times," he said to lavrov. >> yeah, no kidding. andrea, stand by. let me bring in ari melber, chief legal correspondent. ari, these are two remarkable, remarkel developmeable developm have unfolded. never mind the calling of jim comey a nut job by the president if he said that, the idea that he told the russian s by gettin rid of comey it takes pressure off the investigation then the "washington post" reporting a senior official in the white house is a person of interest, and may be under investigation for ties to russia. >> that's correct. "the new york times'" report is striking because, again, it contradicts the white house

story line that jim comey was removed for his own conduct, and it further reinforces, according to american officials who spoke to the "times" out of the president's own mouth the idea that he did this to end or impede the russia inquiry. that kind of conduct, as we've reported, and i say conduct, the termination of jim comey for that reason, not just words, is the kind of thing that traditionally would be a grounds for an obstruction charge. so that is very serious and it seems -- >> to be clear, the president can be held accountable, if that's true, if what he said to the russians is proved to be true, that i got rid of jim comey because it would ease pressure on the investigation into my ties to russia. that could be grounds for prosecution of the president? >> well, that's an important question the way you phrase it. that's not what i said. what i said is it could be grounds for a case of obstruction. >> got. >> now, in our constitutional democracy, it is the congress that deals with that. >> right. >> i'm going to make a historical statement, this is not a forward-looking

prediction. i can tell you historically that two of the impeachment proceedings against presidents involved obstruction as an article of impeachment. that is ultimately a judgment that the congress makes. so that's on your first point. the second point is this reporting in the "washington post" and i should note nbc news, because our investigative unit has confirmed several aspects of this including the use of grand jury subpoenas that show the evidence of a criminal inquiry targeting people who work for donald trump, current or former, and now according to the "washington post" potentially one current white house official. so these stories are linked because some people have wondered, why does donald trump keep saying so many things that are adverse to his interests? and the answer may be that the investigation is proceedg in a way that hfeels a tremendous amount of pressure. that might be one possible reason he is saying things here according to american officials who spoke to "the new york times," that no one under any kind of inquiry or near an inquiry would ever want to say. >> thanks for that. chris hayes is here, host of "all in." chris, i don't know if you had a

chance to digest this but this is kind of incredible. we began this hour with air force one taking off for the president's first international trip on which he had all sorts of goals and messages then this happened. what do you make of it. >> well, i mean, to ari's point, look, there is the moment in the lester holt interview with the president comes ex-freedomly clo extremely close to saying explicitly i fired him because of the russia vase. he said it's on my mind, this whole think, it's not true, it was on my mind when i fired him. this is even closer to basically coming out and saying i fired him to stop the investigation. the pressure off. but also think about how the context of this meeting, i mean, to invite lavrov and kislyak into the white house -- >> which many people don't understand why they were even invited to the white house. >> they were invited, the president, himself, because vladimir putin asked him and he said i'm basically quoting the president here, i felt i couldn't say no. not only are they invited to the white house, the american press is kept out of the meeting, not even a pool photographer. a russian state media is allowed in.

those are the only photos we get. the official readout does not disclose that ambassador kisl k kislyak, the man is who the subject of the conversations with michael flynn that led to his firing, the man who jeff sessions had to recuse himself over not being truthful about his meetings with and a person jared kushner met with in trump plaza taking him in the back way. >> and a man who's thought to be a spy master. >> deeply involved in russian espionage efforts. this man is in the oval office undisclosed by the white house, itself. we only learned, right, he's there and lavrov is there. the context of this meeting, he tells these men that the man who had been investigating russia, let's be clear, this started as a counterintelligence investigation by the fbi. >> exactly. and kislyak. >> and kislyak. the man who's investigating them and their government that he's a nut job, that he got rid of to take the pressure off. >> yeah. >> first of all, if donald trump had absolutely nothing to do with any of this, which, again, we still don't know. the core substance of the matter. it's just a wildly inappropriate

thing to say. you know, i mean, wildly inappropriate thing to say to those two interlocutors in the context of that meeting a day after -- >> it is a remarkably important point it's not two random russian officials in there, sergey kislyak is the guy whom around all of this stories swirl. >> there's a very good chance he's at the core of the actual counterintelligence investigation that james comey was overseeing. right? so he is telling someone who is potentially subject of the same investigation, i -- >> we're in the clear. c>> ianned the guy -- right. that's what it sounds like. >> to echo one point, this is typically the point in the reporting that we would say, but to be fair, here is how the white house disputes this account. >> but they don't. that's a really important point. the white house -- >> except they. >> -- has not disputed "the new york times'" reporting. obviously the implication there is someone has a reporting of a transcript, so they're going to get themselves wound around their axel if they dispute it. >> that's right. there's two interpretations here.

dynamics at play here. one is that that's the same m t meeting h.r. mcmaster came out and took a bullet for, as did dina powell, who were in the meeting, said i was there, it didn't happen, about the ki disclosure of classified information. that was undercut by the president the next morning when he seemed to tacitly admit what happened. reporting that the israelis are still furious about this. it's possible the staff would not take another bullet over the same meeting. they refused to come out once again and say that didn't happen, only to have the president -- the other thing is there is an exposure here, remember, why did sally yates go to the white house about the nature of the kislyak/flynn talks? because she felt that flynn had exposed himself to being compromised by the russians who had blackmail material because they knew what happened in that conversation he was denying. well, lavrov and kislyak know quhafs sa quha what was said. you think they didn't note that the president of the united states bragged about firing his fbi director? >> we get back to the "washington post" reporting a

senior official in the white house is a person of interest in this investigation. this gives more reason for somebody not to fall on their sword to protect the president because someone's under investigation at the white house. >> it's one thing to lie for your boss. and it's another thing to risk going to jail for your boss. >> that's a question right now, i mean, throughout the white house. we know there was a meeting with lawyers yesterday and you have to imagine, and this was something, again, a very different context with a very different set of allegations in the clinton white house, huge amounts of legal fees, staff having to obtain their own personal counsels. you're going to see staff hiring outside attorneys because you cannot trust the white house counsel, can't trust counsels being provided to you by anyone other than the person you're particularly paying to represent you and your interests. >> right. you can't be taking instruction from don mcgahn. >> that's correct. >> or others in the white house. once you realize you're under investigation, right, if they tell you, ari, you can be under investigation --

>> right. >> jeb bush came out with a statement where he said "when i ran for office, i said he is a chaos candidate and would be a chaos president. unfortunately, so far, chaos organizes the president right now." he's speaking at a hedge fund conference in las vegas. i want to wrap this up, to tell you what has happened. we started an hour ago talking about donald trump's first foreign trip. air force one took off, first destination saudi arabia. within moments of that, two bombshell reports, one from "the new york times" quoting donald trump as calling james comey a nut job and telling sergey kisly kislyak, the russian ambassador to the united states, and sergey lavrov, the foreign minister of russia, that the firing of james comey has alleviated pressure on the russia administration and then the "washington post" report stating that a senior white house official is a person of interest in the russia investigation. and may be under investigation, themselves. the white house has not denied the first report and the second report, they said there is no

collusion between anybody in the trump administration and russia. this story has changed our entire discussion for today. that is it for me. i am signing off and "deadline white house" with nicolle wallace begins right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. we come on the air with two new blockbuster reports. president trump is less than two hours into his flight to saudi arabia aboard air force one and he's headlines are sure to dog him at 50,000 feet. the first, the "washington post" is reporting that a current white house official is a significant person of interest in that investigation into coordination between russia and trump's campaign. also breaking, "the new york times" reporting that president trump told russian officials in that oval office meeting that firing jim comey had relieved great pressure on him. he also called comey crazy and a real nut job. we're going to start with reporters covering all of