trump from the very beginning. people like chuck schumer spent more time slowing down nominations than actually solving -- >> i see you opening your mouth but we have to go. thank you both for joining me. that wraps it up for me at this hour. joy reid is next. we thought this would be a day when the only big story would be the arrival of pope john paul in havana this afternoon. then the unexpected. reports of a new sect scandal involving president clinton, allegations one of his closest friends intervened improperly. the role of a white water investigator. >> that was january 1998 about the allegations of bill clinton's affair with monica lewinsky. it would be nearly a year until they voted to impeach him. that began months earlier in the court of public opinion often

hours after the lewinsky scandal exploded into the news, one of the first people to publicly consider the possibility of impeachment was not one of clinton's political end ms. but one of his closest allies. clinton's own form he senior adviser, george stephanopoulos who had left politics to become an analyst for abc news. it was a damming indictment. he was one of many to say that clinton may have committed an impeachable offense. which was why it was feeling a lot like 1998 when the possible impeachment of donald trump is a bit closer. the amash and carlos became the first republicans to say that allegations of trump pressing james comey to drop his investigation on michael flynn, if true, are grounds for impeachment. they even began one-upping each

other over who said it first. however, unlike those democrats who began slowly backing away from clinton, congressional republicans are still holding on to their trump card, as prescribed by the constitution, the power to impeach a president lies entirely in the house of representatives. and the power to remove a president after impeachment requires a two-thirds vote in the senate. the bar is so high that a u.s. president has never been impeached and removed from office. the only two presidents to have ever been impeached at all were bill clinton and andrew johnson, but both were acquitted in the senate. threatened with probable impeachment and removal after key republicans abandoned him, richard nixon resigned before it could happen. and unlike donald trump, all three of those presidents faced impeachment by congress' control by the opposition party. with trump ready and willing to rubber stamp their agenda and his sky-high 84% approval rating among republicans, the gop majority has every reason to believe that it can survive without the backbone necessary

to put country before party. but with a new trump scandal emerging almost every day, make that, every hour, will anything make republicans decide that enough is enough? joining me now is a democratic congresswoman, who called for trump's impeachment on the floor of the house and who is about to hold a town hall on the issue. texas representative, al green. congressman, thank you very much for being here. i want to start by asking you about what my producers discussed with you, that you have gotten death threats as a result of this town hall. can you explain? >> well, thank you for having me. this is not something that i wanted to do. this is something that i have to do. the constitution mandates it and i think we have to engage in this process. yes, we have received some threats and we will be playing the recordings today, so that people can assess the threats and make their own decisions. but when people say that they will lynch you, i think you have to take that seriously. and as a result, we have some extreme security measures in place here today. >> and why do you believe that

impeachment at this early stage. i mean, donald trump has only been in office something like 120 days, why start talking about impeaching him now? >> the constitution doesn't address how long a person has to be in office. it doesn't matter. it really has to do with the person's overt manifestations and verbalizations. mr. trump, who is the president, fired the fbi director who was investigating him, and he so much as said he did it because of the investigation. that is obstruction of justice. that is an impeachable act. so we don't need to go into all of these other actions. there are some secondary and some tertiary actions that could help substantiate what happened, but he committed obstruction of justice when he fired the fbi director for investigating him. >> and i want to play for you the leader of the democrats -- your leader in the house, nancy pelosi, who is the house minority leader. and this is her on monday on cnn, saying that impeachment should not be on the table at the moment. take a listen. >> what do you say about the

practical effect of some of your members, let's say, most recently, al green, okay, said this is time for impeachment. >> they know i don't subscribe to that, you know. in other words, again, if you're talking about impeachment, you're talking about, what are the facts? not, i don't like him and i don't like his hair and -- you know, i don't like -- what are the facts? >> and how do you respond to that, sir? >> i respond by saying, this is not about democrats. this is about democracy. it's not about republicans, it's about the republic. it's about what was said by benjamin franklin. you have a republic if you can keep it. this is about keeping the republic. it's about no person being above the law. not even the president of the united states of america. it's about the notion that 48% of the american people tend to agree with the position that i've assumed. they think that he should be impeached. let me share this with you, because it's exceedingly important. many people confuse the

collusion with the obstruction of justice. the collusion may take years of investigative reporting to come to some fruition. but the obstruction of justice is something we separate from that and we look at that alone. that occurred when he fired comey for investigating him. that will be with him as long as he is president. and he can be impeached for it. now, i assure you, notwithstanding anything democrats will say or republicans will say, there will be an impeachment resolution brought in the name of the people of the united states of america. and if nobody else does it, i will do it. each member of the house has the authority to bring an impeachment resolution. that is something that i don't want to do. but i know wrong when i see it. the american people understand it. and there will be a resolution. whether it will pass, what the house will do, i don't know. but at least there will be up with person who took the action that is necessary to cause impeachment to be brought before the house.

only the house can impeach. may i address this quickly? this is important. this is not going to be resolved through the courts. not the obstruction of justice. the president will not be indicted and taken to court for obstruction of justice. that remedy is in the house and in the senate. that's where the constitution puts it. >> all right. well, representative al green, congressman from texas. thank you very much, good luck with the town hall today. thanks for joining us. >> thank you. >> thank you. i want to bring in my panel, jimmy williams, and jennifer ruben, opinion writer for "the washington post." and jimmy, i'm going to go to you first. because representative green just made a point that has to do with procedure. you formerly worked in congress as a staffer. is it possible for a member of the house to bring an impeachment resolution to the floor without the speaker of the house allowing that resolution to happen? >> it's a privileged resolution, but that doesn't mean it's going to go anywhere. it will be a party line vote and that will be the end of it. and if the entire point is to

take down a president, that means you just failed to take down the president. listen, this is like a prosecutor taking a case to trial without any evidence. we don't have that much evidence. we have a lot of hearsay. we have a lot of press reports, which we are a part of and i understand that. the question is, is what are the investigations and what are we going to find out? and the bottom line is, if you have a special counsel, which we have, house and senate investigations, that's all good and fine and dandy, but those are all political processes. what we need is for members of the house, maybe mr. green himself and the senate to introduce a bill, a piece of legislation, that would establish an independent commission just like we did for 9/11, to get the facts. to take it out of the political process. they would not have much power or authority to bring charges, in fact, none at all. but at least it would give us a place where you could go and do an investigation, without a

political process being in place. let all of these things happen at the same time. and in the end, if there is, in fact, evidence, evidence of something that's gone wrong, which i think that there has, but i can't prove that. so until i can, and without that evidence, impeachment is not an option right now. i agree with speaker -- i'm sorry, leader pelosi. >> you know, kareen, i expect you disagree with that. we have some evidence, donald trump's own words. he practically, fairly boasted to nbc's own lester holt that the reason he fired jim koims comey because he wanted to stop the russian investigation. we have more and more evidence of his own words. do you feel there is not enough evidence to talk about, separate from russiagate, obstruction of justice. >> i do agree there is evidence out there, like you just laid out, joy, that donald trump is his own worst enemy right now. but we do need some more facts. like, we know that comey is going to be testifying post-memorial day, it sounds

lake. so we need to hear from comey hills. we need to see those comey memos. and i think that's where we need to start. but if there is, indeed, obstruction of justice, that will lead to impeachment. and that's the way it looks like right now, but we need -- i do agree with leader pelosi, we need more facts. and i agree with jimmy on the independent commission. we need that, as well. comey stated himself that russia will probably do this again, meddle with our elections in 2018, 2020. we need to find out exactly how that happened, why it happened, and so we need that independent commission. we can walk and chew gum at the same time. >> and david, it sounds like there would be -- we're getting to the point that we'll have multiple commissions slash investigations slash hearings. you've got the senate and house intelligence communities already looking at this. you now have a special counsel. adding a commission does what, exactly? >> well, that's a good question. i've long supported an

independent inquiry into this matter. i think as a realistic matter, the special counsel is going to be the closest we ultimately get to that. and what's important to realize, special counsel, they will issue -- that counsel will issue a report. and that report will be based on sworn testimony. that report will be based on documents. we will see in the coming days and weeks, we'll see sworn testimony, as james comey testifies. we're highly likely to actually see documents. we're going to get into the position where we're going to actually be living in the realm of law and evidence, rather than in the realm of leaks and news reports. and it's entirely true that the leaks and news reports have brought us to this position, but this is the important stage. the law and the evidence. that's the important stage in this inquiry. and that's going to determine where we go from here. >> and you know, jennifer, you

know, there's a sense that there's a disconnect between what maybe viewers of the show, a lot of democrats, sort of feel in their gut, that this is sort of prima fascia evidence that the president has done something much worse than obstruction. and the appetite the elected democrats have to take the political remedy. you've already heard from nancy pelosi saying, you know, she's not ready to go to impeachment. she was in the same place in 2006 when she took impeachment off the table when she became speaker of the house and democrats took over. you have tim mack reporting in the daily beast that dianne feinstein on the senate side has said that impeachment hearings are very hard on the country. she wants to learn more, but she thinks the i-word should be off the table. and a lot of people looking at the discomfort that republicans field and the fact that democrats aren't doing anything to touch this president, the leaders of the house and senate are completely out to -- you know, they're not helping at all. they want to support donald trump. some have floated the idea that the only way to stop donald trump is for his own cabinet and his own vice president to take the 25th amendment solution. this is article 4 of the 25th amendment of constitution.

that says wherever the vice president and a majority of either the principle officers of the executive departments or of such a body as congress may by law provide their written declaration that the president is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the vice president will assume the offices and duties of the president. there are conspiracy theorists that mike pence is wanting to do that anyway. he and the cabinet could just remove donald trump. do you see that as a viable option? >> no, and ross and i have debated that on this very network. i think that's a terrible idea, actually. it's a recipe for coups and removing people because we don't like them, not because they are unable to discharge their duties. that had a specific purpose. now, mentally, at some point, donald trump may be unable to perform his duties. physically, it's possible that presidents are incompass dated, they go under surgery or have some physical ailment. that's what that is for.

we don't want to open the door to parties trying to get presidents out of there because they're really, really bad at their job or have done bad things. that really is what the impeachment process is for. i want to go back for just a second, though, to the commission. i think people are confusing what the commission does with regard to donald trump and obstruction of justice and what they do for russia. an independent commission would be very helpful in the russia investigation, because we do need some prescriptions going forward. that's what the 9/11 commission did. they looked at all of the facts, looked how all the mechanisms of our national security team did not work properly and they made recommendations going forward. that's what we need the independent commission for, having nothing to do with the obstruction issue, but the underlying, sometimes hard to remember that's where we started, but the underlying russia meddling in our election. >> we are out of time, but i want to do a quick round robin and take your guys' temperature on the likelihood of impeachment. impeachment with republicans leading, impeachment with democrats leading it, or no impeachment at all.

what of those three things do you think will happen? >> i think the republicans will lose the house in 2018 and the democrats will move to impeach. >> jimmy? >> i don't think either of those things is going to happen, because i don't have any facts to support those things at this point in time. but if i did, i think that the country would demand if a president is accused of -- is guilty of accused of doing what we think he did, then, in fact, impeachment would happen, but i don't have those facts. >> very quickly, karine jean-pierre, which of those things are likely? >> i'm waiting to hear what comey has to say post-memorial day, and if it is, indeed, true that he obstructed justice, then impeachment should be on the table. >> not should it, but will it happen? >> i would hope that republicans finally wake up. i hope so. i hope so. i don't know. >> david french, very quickly. likelihood of impeachment either by republicans or democrats? >> it completely depends on the actual evidence that emerges. can't possibly predict. >> all right. no predictions except jennifer ruben went out on a limb there and i appreciate her doing that.

thank you all very much. coming up, how the russiagate investigation could start one way and end up some place entirely different. that's next. do you play? ♪ ♪ use the chase mobile app to send money in just a tap, to friends at more banks then ever before. you got next? chase. helping you master what's now and what's next. oscar mawe went back toig the drawing board... and the cutting board. we removed the added nitrates and nitrites, by-products, and artificial preservatives in all of our meat. every. single. one. why? for the love of hot dogs.

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not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount take a close look at the letter from deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein, which authorizes robert mueller as special counsel. rosenstein gives mueller the go ahead to look not only into possible ties between russia and the trump campaign, but also, quote, any matters that arose or may arise directly from the investigation. that search has already led the fbi to zero in on two trump aides, former national security adviser michael flynn and former campaign chairman, paul manafort. both men have been the subject of multiple grand jury subpoenas and records requests in

connection with the investigation. but where else might any matters that arose or may arise lead mueller now that he's in charge? after all, ken starr, the independent counsel who hounded bill clinton in the 1990s started out with an investigation into white water. but we all know how that ended with monica lewinsky and impeachment. so what new revelations might mueller search for answers expose about donald trump? joining me now are daily beast journalist, harry siegel and kenny with the coalition against trump. i'm going to start with you. donald trump remerges out of new york from this real estate work that's pretty murky. if you could use your lurid imagination and speculate, what might be underneath this sort of curtain as the attorney general of new york begins to look into him? >> the attorney general of new york has some exceptional investigative powers and has been gunning for trump for a long time. >> he's a democrat, big-time. >> he is a democrat, and he's -- eric schneiderman, and he's

looking -- and step away from russia for a minute or russia and the election, donald trump -- donald trump is in the real estate business, which is filled with llcs, dark, buried money. at a certain point, the american banks cut him off, because he keeps burning them, like trump tends to burn people. and he has all sorts of lines of credit, that some of them go back to russia and a lot of that's been looked into. paul manafort, who's being investigated now for his own very complicated real estate dealings, that seem to involve surprise mortgages that maybe weren't paid off and llcs to maybe hide money in property, with scrooge mcduck style, so instead of someone living there, the cash is just there. he had a place in trump tower. and that was one of his ins with the donald. so, there's just all of these nooks and crannies and dark corners that somebody with real investigative powers has -- and subpoena power, you know, potentially, can find, start turning over rocks and see what crawls out. >> and speaking of turning over rocks, you've been doing a lot of that. and you do have this sort of

residence of trump tower cavalcade of sort of almost cartoonish villains, right, that are associated directly with donald trump? can you in a very short order sort of unpack what are some of the names that people can be looking for that can turn up in these investigations? >> i think that mike flynn, obviously, is most likely going to head to prison. you have paul manafort, who's in a lot of trouble. i think that michael cohen is going to face a lot of scrutiny, as well. you know, we found out -- >> that's trump's lawyer? >> yes, that's trump's attorney. he also goes by the name michael hacking, but that was related to his taxi cab company. so he has two names. you know, i think the main point is that his family needs to be implicated in this, because they were behind a lot of these deals. so you have eric and don jr., but most importantly, you have ivanka and jared. i think those are the two key people that need to be implicated now in regards to the whole trump/russia probe.

>> and sarah, one of the sort of things about donald trump that people learn when he ran for president is that he does have this long-standing kind of affinity for all things russia. he's done a lot of business there. his son bragged about a lot of their business coming from russia, a lot of their con does were brought by russian llcs or russian humans. his $90 million sale of a house in florida. but there is this sense in which he kind of seems to if not at least admire but emulate russian oligarchs. is this happenstance and coincidence that he seems to behave in ways that they do? >> i don't think it's coincidence, i think he has a natural affinity, because russian oligarchs can operate above the law. and throughout trump's life, that's what he's tried to do. he's surrounded himself with people who have insight into legal loopholes he could exploit for his own corrupt ventures. and i think he sees in russia people who are able to do this at a much higher level because they lack the constraints and the legal processes that we have

in the u.s. as president, i think he see himself as above the law. i think he's using his executive position to further these kind of financial transactions. and he's also directly implicated in russian interactions that may be illegal. whether himself or through people like manafort, flynn, paige, and you know the various actors that we've just named. >> and june, harry, as an investigative journalist, you also do a lot of great work here for the "daily news," you know the new york weird world. there were a couple of headlines that would get anybody like you sort of intrigued but one of them was the associated press's headline, that trump's attorney didn't want him to sign his financial disclosure forms, that would have certified them as true. that was weird. and then you have on friday, politico comes out with this piece that trump told aides that firing michael flynn was a mistake. it's left white house officials perplexed. why is trump so determined to defend a man at the center of a federal investigation that's damaging his administration, the man he's accused of lying to his

vice president, someone he apparently is still talking to and telling him to stay strong? >> well, did he lie to the vice president, or is that the alibi story? because these guys don't mean a lot of the things they said. but with flynn, there's clearly this "i can't quit you, babe" element to this. and it's incredible how much more loyal he's been to mike flynn than to his three wives. but i think the bottom line here with trump, which is almost always simpler and less conspiratorial than you need to start with. if you're not trying to start something in court, he doesn't like to say he's wrong and he likes to dance with -- and flynn was a zealot and convert very early on. the two were close. he doesn't like these other generals like mcmaster who say a lot of stuff and are boring. here's a cool guy, they said, lock her up, he said, that's right, somebody should. that's his sort of fella. now flynn's gone. all of these investigations are rolling downhill. and he's saying, oh, i never should have done that. but i was right to start with and the people around him are saying, oh, my god, is this

going to be a very, very long stretch trying to speak for this man. >> and scott, there's also the point of, you know, flynn might know some things, right? >> i think that one of the things that's key here is that from our timeline, we believe through our investigations that trump is the one who made the introduction for flynn to the russians, in the first place. and i think that fact, when that comes out, that's very troublesome, because then it's trump that was involved in the first place in linking flynn up. and i think that flynn has been the eyes and ears for trump in russia until he was fired. and i think also, you know, of course, his son was also over there in russia, during that russia today conference. so this is going to spin out of control very, very quickly in regards to flynn. i don't think that he's going to run out of stories to tell. >> yeah, okay, we are out of time. unfortunately, we are out of time. we could do this all day. harry siegel, scott kenzie, scrooge mcduck makes its first appearance on the "a.m. joy"

show thanks to harry. still to come, trump takes his road show to saudi arabia. stay with us.

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the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ donald trump is in saudi arabia today on his first overseas trip as president. but earlier this week, he was playing host to foreign leaders a to the white house. including turkish president, tayyip erdogan. erdogan has reputations as a strong man who brutally cracks down on dissidents and journalists in his own country. just hours after that meeting, erdogan's guards, the guys dressed in dark suits, were caught on camera kicking, beating, and choking protesters who were rallying outside the turkish ambassador's residence in washington. senior officials confirm to nbc news that members of erdogan's security detail were involved. at least nine people were hurt and two people were arrested. new video from voice of america shows president erdogan watching the chaos from his car. two members of his security detail were briefly detained, but international law gives heads of state and their entourage immunity from arrest.

the turkish government blamed the protester who is they claimed were affiliated with terrorist groups. the state department condemned the violence as never an appropriate response to free speech. and senators dianne feinstein and john mccain demanded that erdogan hold his guards accountable. >> we should throw their ambassador the hell out of the united states and america. this isn't turkey, this isn't a third world country. this kind of thing cannot go unresponded to diplomatically and maybe in other ways. >> state department officials stopped short of expelling the turkish ambassador, but did summon him to express their concern. up next, the president on the world stage. our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden,

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this american carnage stops right here and stops right now. we cannot allow a group of terrorists to form inside of

america. we cannot allow our nation to become a sanctuary for extremists. we don't want them in our country! >> the man who wrote those words for donald trump is his senior policy adviser, stephen miller. i bring this up today, because miller, who also brought you such hits as the muslim travel ban, is writing the speech trump will give tomorrow in saudi arabia. an address on islam, directed to the muslim world. what could go wrong? >> ted cruz also introduced an amendment to double the number of muslim migrants coming into this country. a 200% increase. he had no regard, no concern for how that amendment would affect the security of you and your family. he was happy to replicate here in the united states the same conditions we have in germany and belgium and across europe, with uncontrolled migration from the middle east.

joining me now is naveed jamali, nbc contributor, nieera hack and rosa brooks. rosa, h.r. mcmaster said the following of the speech that's coming. he said it's going to be an inspiring, yet direct speech on the need to confront radical ideology and the president's hope for a peaceful vision of islam to dominate across the world. hopeful about that? >> well, i'm watching with interest, as i'm sure is the rest of the world. the funny thing about trump's speeches is that he just says whatever comes into his head, as far as i can tell, regardless of what is on the paper in front of him. so i think in terms of what could go wrong, number one, the speech is obviously, reportedly written by steve miller, not famed for his calm and soothing forms of rhetoric. and number two, we've got trump ad libbing. so anything could happen. it's going to be an exciting day

tomorrow. >> hopefully he won't do the hand gestures and do the thumbs up. i think he's been given a list of things you don't do. it's rude inside saudi arabia to do them. so, neera, you've got the white house proving this trip, the whole foreign trip, this is by our own peter alexander. the white house has said this trip will provide the chance to unify different religions around a common objective to bring everyone together in an effort to rise above more petty differences. the speech east doing on islam he's giving in saudi arabia, where wahabism was born, which is the ideology that they've taken around the world with them. what do you expect from a speech that will go down in the cradle of islam, in the place of mecca and medina. >> i think we should be hardened that the fact that his people are realizing that judaism and christianity are coming from the shared roots of abraham. that can be heartening, but the idea that going to mecca and recognizing that is equivalent to the vatican is false, because there is no pope or vatican

equivalent for muslims. going to foreign country before talking to your own muslim community here in the u.s., people who are feeling attacked and are fearful for what their government is promoting these days, that's also disappointing, not being able to speak to american citizens, but going to a foreign government, first. and of all the muslim countries to go to, the birthplace of wahibism, the most extreme interpretation of islam, that is easily seen as the underpinning of isis. the saudi 9/11 hijackers were the majority from saudi arabia, and saudi arabia has never been held accountable for this. multiple countries in the muslim world feel threatened by this extreme interpretation of islam, that is now being spread because of saudi's oil money into their country. so the ironies here are multiple. and unfortunately, the royal

family has realized that they have somebody who wants to appear royal himself in trump. and so they're going to be capitalizing and playing on that, rather than any substantiative conversation about ending terrorism in the region. >> and naveed, it's hard to believe that donald trump or his team, quite frankly, really understands sort of all of the players that intricately. donald trump notoriously only reads bullet points with his name on them. he doesn't read detailed policy papers. but if he did, what would -- might somebody who did understand it make of a couple of dots? one that jared kushner apparently just inked a deal personally to get a good deal for the saudis on buying some military equipment essentially from lockheed martin. they just inked that deal. and in iran, the chief rival, that these are two sort of rival in that region, just re-elected mr. rouhani, which is the moderating influence in iran, which is the donald trump team said is on notice, at one point. what do you make of those dynamics? >> i think nayyera is absolutely

right. the reality is that these foreign countries, they have intelligence services that read the news just like ours do. and they're wondering, is donald trump going to stay in power? is he going to make it past 2020. as such, they're going to formulate a source of action that's going to be neutral. they're looking for short-term appeasement. how "the new york times" has a plan to use small words and appeal to his ego by complimenting him on his victory in the election. i think if they're smart, they're just going to kind of do something that's sort of middle of the road, let him get his little victory lap here and wait to see what happens next. i don't think he's in a position to really trade. not to mention what just happened with russia, i'm betting these countries are not big fans of russia, turkey aside. they're probably thinking, let's just make this a grip and grin

and let's not invest too much, because we don't know how long this guy is going to be in power. it's a legitimate concern. >> there is the other sort of sense of it. i talked to people, to some frequently, who say, on the other hand, some of these leaders in the egypts and saudi arabias of the world actually understand donald trump, might be someone they get along with. they're a lot like them. you can stay in his hotels and do miss. he doesn't care about human rights. he's not going to try to sort of lord american values over you. you look at the way he's treated duterte and erdogan. in a sense, might he actually have his best possible reception in some of these more autocratic countries in the absolutely. >> absolutely. >> absolutely. >> he's like them, but sort of dumber. and i think the saudis have absolutely got his number. i see the saudis are given him a gold medal just for showing up. i think they figured donald trump up. give him a little gold star, treat him like royalty, nod and look respectful, and he's eating out of their hands.

and that's not really good for the rest of the world, but it's great for the saudis. and he obviously has no discomfort whatsoever with authoritarianism. >> and let's be clear, with also, a win for donald trump in this situation, of getting along with autocratic leaders is not necessarily a win for the united states. the idea that they said they're not going to be moralizing to these countries. moralizing about values such as freedom of press, human rights, and freedom for women, that is -- those are the values the united states should be espousing. it should not be the values of how can we get the best business deal for a particular family. >> yeah, and naveed, you've already seen people on the right giving kudos to melania and ivanka for not covering their hair inside arabia, which lots and lots and lots of other first ladies have done. they're giving him already medals for just showing up, even some of his supporters back here. >> both of the other panelists are absolutely right. i think this is going to be short-term gain. and you're right, joy. this is someone who other autocratic dictators, if you

will, can look at him and say, hey, i get it, i relate to this guy. that's going to translate to short-term things. i don't think any country will look at this objectively and say, there's a long-term policy, we can strike with the united states, and it's going to have a meaningful long-term lasting impact. they're just trying to appeal to his id, his ego. and i think that's a smart movie. he's a kid with shiny keys. you can distract him pretty easily. >> and as long as the tie is longer than the medal, it all coordinates with his outfit. rosa, last word to you. on the serious side, nato also that as to hear from donald trump. and they cannot be excited that he's going to talk to them, bring along his speechwriter, who said that nato was an organization made many decades ago, that is incongruent with our current foreign policy challenges. that's steven miller last year on fox news. >> i think he's expected to do some reassuring, whether he can stick tonight script that i'm sure h.r. mcmaster, the national security adviser is trying to

get him to stick to and actually be reassuring is anybody's guess. but, you know, i do think that we have already reached the point where most foreign leaders, whether they're awe thorntarian or democratic, have kind of got him figured out and they realize that he's going to say crazy stuff and it may or may not matter and that's both good news and bad news. the good news is that he may not stick to the crazy stuff. the bad news is that he may also not stick to the reassuring stuff. >> here we go. and they can always read his twitter feed to find out what he's thinking. >> thank you all. still to come, a little comic relief or more comic relief at that point. the one and only kathy griffin joins me live. ♪

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right after news broke that russia had hacked the dnc last year, russian leaders had a conversation that was caught on tape. according to "the washington post," house majority leader kevin mccarthy said, there's two people i think putin paid, rohrbacher and trump. that's congressman dana rohrbacher. on wednesday mccarthy said it was, quote, a bad attempt at a joke, that's all. that's all there is to it. meanwhile, some republicans defended trump for allegedly asking the former fbi director to end his investigation into michael flynn saying that maybe trump, too, was only joking. with so much joking going on, we decided to bring in an expert, my good friend, grammy-winning comedienne, kathy griffin, "celebrity run-ins, the a to z index." she fabulously walked into the studio. >> i just happened to be here to say i know this game. you get caught saying something horrible.

i don't deny it because everything i say i'm proud of. however, you deny it. then i love when mccarthy was walking down the hall and all the reporters were like, uh, it's on tape. boy, he changed his story. oh, it's on tape. then it was just a joke. i especially like the part "swear to god" which is one of those tells that lets you know it's not a joke. obviously, they think that or have at least danced around the idea. if you've ever met dana rohrbacher, you can pay him to do pretty much anything. and not very much, like you wouldn't have to pay rohrbacher more than 20 bucks. >> since the "access hollywood" tape they have gotten away with saying things trump says and things his people say are just a joke. >> they're all bolder. but bolder in a bad way. there's no stigma against an inappropriate joke. that part would be fun. not for elected officials. but these guys are trying to walk back stuff and sometimes they'll say it didn't happen, sometimes it was a joke, sometimes it was a, well, i knew it wasn't a joke. but the guy next to me thought --

i know all these tricks. i've bombed enough to know all these tricks, thank you very much. >> well, i have to -- while i have you here, i have to ask you about roger ailes. you have an amazing story about him, which our audience you must share with. >> oh, my gosh. so i came out with the book in november. it's about various run-ins with famous people that maybe people never knew i had known. i was seated near valerie jarrett at a high-profile d.c. event. i got into a fight with sarah palin, the whole thing. but anyway, i was going up to roger ailes, and i couldn't resist giving him some -- a little guff, as my uncle would say. i say hi, rog, what's going on over at the propaganda machine. he said i remember when you were a friend of fox and friends. i said yeah, that's when me and richard simmons were doing the weather like 15 years ago. then rahm emanuel came up to me and put his hands on my shoulder and said, we're not doing this here. and i think i'm still friends with valerie jarrett because she said that being friends with her

makes her daughter thinks she's cool, but i don't know. i may have pushed it. >> it's a weird confluence, valerie jarrett, rahm emmanuel and roger ailes all sitting together. >> it was not the washington correspondents one but the d-list one, tv and radio one. it was a crazy combo. i will say i'm amazed at how these washington people sit around and next to each other. >> what do you think his legacy -- ailes' legacy is going to be? >> i think truthfully his legacy is going to be the way he treated women, i really do. especially when you look at the chorus of people backing him up. who wants sean hannity having your back? nobody wants tucker carlson -- i'm not pro botox anymore, but he could use a lot. look, he's scaring my mother. my mother can't hear so well. she watches tucker, and she's confused and she turns her head like a cat. it's too much for her. it's too much for her. >> i have to get to the reason that you are here, not just to see me, of course. >> of course i want to see you but i want to talk about aids walk new york city tomorrow. >> you have a gorgeous t-shirt. tell us about it because it is

an important fund-raiser for the gay men's health crisis. and aids walk leaders. >> 32nd anniversary. in this environment with everything from god forbid if the ahca ever passes, aids is still such a real crisis around the world. i think it's one of these issues that people think is done with or the aids walk around has been for so long, it still is important. it starts tomorrow at 10:00 a.m. there are events before. i'm actually performing at the rumsey play field in the middle of the park. i'm doing stand-up at a park. that's what it's come to. i'll be on at about 1:45. it's -- you know, it's a great time by all. go walk, go support, go donate. their website is newyork.aidswalk.net. >> the new york skyline is going to turn red this weekend for aids awareness. it's a whole new sense of urgency according to the gay men's health crisis. they have grave concerns about losing funding for hiv -- >> they are losing -- many, many gay and lesbian centers are losing funding. a lot of men are going to

planned parenthood now, and all these individual issues still need private money and private help because as we know the government is pulling money away, pulling money away. so this is a cause that's close to my heart but also this is an issue that still goes on all over the world. and, you know, we're not cured, we're not done yet. the medicine is so much better but only because of our grassroots fund-raising and working, working, working. >> do you think because people are living longer and so healthy you know people with hiv and they're healthy, have we lost the sense of urgency? >> yes. especially with the younger folks. i fear that they think this is an issue that's generational or i'll just go on that cocktail. all this stuff is really hard. it's important that we educate people as young as we can. this is a real thing. it can happen to you. all the old myths we can debunk but have serious conversations about it. it's a real thing. >> not only serious but fun as well because kathy griffin is involved. anything you're involved in is amazing. >> i just want to make the people laugh. >> you can walk like kathy tomorrow. she will teach you how to do that fabulous walk. kathy griffin, thank you very much, my friend. that is our show for today.

remember, "a.m. joy" is tomorrow at noon eastern after premier league soccer. in the meantime, you know what to do. keep it right here on msnbc. that college experience that i had. the classes, the friends, the independence. and since we planned for it, that student debt is the one experience, i'm glad she'll miss when you have the right financial advisor, life can be brilliant. ameriprise

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