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of the billboard music awards just by using your voice. the billboard music awards. sunday, may 21st eight seven central only on abc. he said a future is only possible if your nations drive out the terrorists and drive out the extremists. drive them out.

drive them out of your places of worship. drive them out of your communities. drive them out of your holy land and drive them out of this earth. >> good afternoon and welcome to "a.m. joy" at a special time. president trump went to saudi arabia and called on the leaders of 50 majority countries calling on them to help with terrorism in their countries. although he used the terms extremist terror, he did not use the term islamic terrorism. which is interesting considering what he said as a candidate. >> anyone who cannot name our enemy is not fit to lead this country. anyone who cannot condemn the hatred, oppression and violence of radical islam lacks the moral clarity to serve as our president. >> and joining me now, msnbc anchor ahim obedeen, dean

obadiah. i'll start on my left. dean? >> mel gibson lectures jews, we'll have paula deen and duke lecture islams. the fact that donald trump went over to speak about islam is laughable. he made a great point, 95% of the victims of terrorism are muslims, but if he had given this speech during the campaign where he praised muslims, praised muslim leaders, he never would have gotten the g nomination because he needed to undignify muslims to get that nomination. >> trump is speaking to muslim leaders, he's not speaking to muslim people.

it's a very top down approach to this issue which the problem here is that the saudis aren't clamping down or the gulf states aren't clamping down, but he didn't really appeal at all to the 6 billion muslims around the world to suggest that he doesn't really hate muslims like he's said for the last two years. >> i think it's little on substance. we're not hearing anything new. this isn't a departure on american policy. i can't remember how many times the u.s. has said we're going to combat terrorism with the gulf countries. if you're looking for substantive policy, clear vision, anything that is going to be definitive, i would say i did not see anything particularly new about this. it's the same tone we have heard from subsequent american administrations. i think it's ironic you had a president say we're not going to lecture other countries about how they do business, but then they got a government they didn't deserve. it sounds like a regime change in iran. so i think there is a loft irt

irony in parts of this speech which is, given what we heard on the campaign trail, fell somewhat short. >> ironic since they just had an election. there was a moment we breathe a sigh of relief that he didn't say anything too outrageous, he wasn't too terribly insulting. he basically gave a speech of an american speaking to muslim countries which is condescending on the face of it. it was a very transactional speech, in my opinion. it almost sounded like he was having a business conference, and this comes on the wake of jared kushner negotiating that $1 billion deal to sell military equipment to the saudi leadership. here is a clip of what i think the bottom line of the speech was and what trump was talking suspended realism. take a listen. >> we are adopting a principal realism rooted in common values,

shared interests and common sense. we will make decisions based on real world outcomes, not in f x inflexible idealogy. we will be guided by the lessons of experience, not the confines of rigid thinking. and wherever possible, we will seek gradual reforms, not sudden intervention. we must seek partners, not perfection. >> anybody who is familiar with the history of saudi aramco, of the oil deals going back to the 1930s with the united states would sort of understand this as the language of transaction. it's trump saying, i'm here to do business with these leaders and i'm not going to worry about >> think thaet kit's kind of a mistake, right? one thing we've seen over and over again is we have countries where there has been oppression of human rights, where there has

been conflict, there has been civil war. to completely ignore those issues in a short-term bid to get close to the saudis is actually not productive in the long term. it's something leaders have done again and again in different parts of the world, which is shore up a strong man, ignore human rights violations to keep a lid on things, and you can never keep a lid on things forever. we've seen that again and again and it's just like we don't want to learn the lessons of history. >> but it feels like it's going back to the time when, as long as it's our strong man. whether it was saddam hussein, the old world egypt before we turned on that. this goes back to the realism where we don't care about your country, we just want to do business. >> we had rex tillerson say a couple weeks ago that all this human rights stuff is basically not relevant to the kind of foreign policy we're going to be seeing, and some republicans are

still grasping at straws and saying, no, because we saw 59 tomahawk missiles go toward syria, this is actually action-based foreign policy, there is no evidence of that. >> there is sort of a deemed element that donald trump is t not -- he says we're going to build a wall, but when he's in front of the foreign minister, he leaves out tough talk about building a wall. he'll tell others your actions are terrible, but when he's in the church, heompletely bac down and softens. this is trump talking about during the campaign about muslims and islam as opposed to today. >> donald j. trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of muslims entering the united states until our country's representatives can figure out what the hell is going on. >> i think islam hates us.

there's something there that is a tremendous hatred there. >> that rhetoric wasn't in there today. obviously you're not going to go to the heart of islam, saudi arabia, and say that, islam hates us, but it's quite a climb ho climb-down. >> islam doesn't hate us. i hate donald trump. i happen to be islam and it's principle. coming there to say muslims are rapists, to things like 34% of muslims in the world want to kill americans. he said that on fox news. does that mean one of three people he met there want to kill americans? i'm upset in the way muslim leader, these are foreign leaders, didn't call him out. i wonder if they privately have done that. there is anger at donald trump as well as muslim leaders for

not calling out donald trump and giving open arms to this beautiful welcome. instead of saying, hey, you have power, we don't. donald trump is all about america first. he should start with muslim americans who he demonized here before going over there for money to kiss their ring. >> donald trump curtsying and the horse-drawn carriages greeting him like a king. you can't read the part in the upper left-hand corner, but it's literally talking about the glowing welcome he received. and yet some of those were on the travel ban. iran not invited, not in the room, but they were right at the top of the countries trump wants to ban. syria, yemen,. he doesn't defend americans in front of them, i guess is ayman's point.

>> and if you talk about the boston marathon bombing, 9/11, he cited three attacks on american soil but totally ignoring the fact there is a whole other dynamic to terrorism in the fbi. so he could have said we have terrorism, we have home-grown terrorism, sandy hook, whatever, charleston massacre. we need to deal with this so we're all in it together. he went there and said, muslim countries, you have to drive them out. we're victim to what you essentially are allowing to take place. i think that is going to fall on deaf ears, particularly with the muslim populations. i think that was a very important point, that the muslim world which is not monolithic and not represented by just the leaders of those countries, many of whom aren't even democratically elected, they don't necessarily speak for the

muslims, and that's why what you're seeing today will be more of a gesture than it will to produce any tangible impact in fighting terrorism. really quickly, i think what you saw and where this deal is more transactional, is because both the saudi king used very harsh words against the iranian government and president trump echoed those very strong words against iran. what you're seeing here is a deal being forged. the saudis, the gulf countries, are willing to invest heavily in the united states, throw out these red carpet galas and what have you and give the president of the united states a medal. but in exchange they need to see tough talk on iran and a change in policy, and that's going to be dangerous for the region. >> i think that is sort of the bottom line, that the saudis and the iranians are locked in this sort of battle in that region, the u.s. saying they will stand by saudi arabia, which even talking about infrastructure developments in the united states, pouring billions of

dollars into lockheed martin. do you think it was a missed opportunity, ahabism, which most american people are not familiar with, took islam and made it weaponized in a lot of ways. it comes out of saudi arabia. the kingdom is accused of fermenting that idealogy and spread it around the world. >> i don't think it was a missed opportunity in that sense, because if you imagine donald trump speaking in saudi arabia about the need to fight ahabism, i think that would -- >> the universe would implode? >> it would be painful, and it would be beyond hypocritical. in that sense i'm relieved he didn't try to go that way. >> absolutely. don't punch above your weight class, i think is what they were saying to donald trump, and he did not today. thank you all for being here. trump may be running from his problems back home, but he cannot hide. stay with us.

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. the president apparently didn't even bring up, confront the russians with their interference there. will you all demand to see the notes of that meeting? >> we've been asking for -- i want every note that they have, george. there's been so many lies, so many contradictions, and i think documents will help us to ferret out exactly what's the truth and what's a lie. and so i'm hoping that the chairman will issue subpoenas so that we can get every document, because i think that's what we need. >> well, donald trump is traveling abroad. the investigations go on back here at home. just this weekend, there have been new developments. as the "washington post" first reported, the russian investigation has reported an as-yet-unnamed current white house official as a significant person of interest.

the "new york times" reports that trump campaign adviser michael caputo has been asked by the house to submit to an interview and provide documents related to its inquiring. joining me now, political analyst joan walsh, commentator hagland and jack wright. i'm going to start with you, jack. the grown-up of the administration was put out to begin the talking points about what happened in that infamous oval office in the meeting with donald trump they had. this is general mcmasters trying to explain himself further, and he was asked whether or not donald trump actually confronted the russians in that meeting on the election. take a listen. >> did the president confront them on their interference in our election? this was their first meeting. >> there already was too much that's been leaked from those meetings. >> did the president couldnnfro

the russians on their interference in our election? >> i'm not going to divulge more of that meeting. >> so, jack, it's obvious why the administration wants to put mr. mcmaster out there as its face right now, but what do you make of his responses? >> it really speaks for itself, doesn't it? if you look at where donald trump has been during the election cycle and then as president, he ran anti-establishment, but my fear is that he's running and he's actually ruling anti-american. let's look at what he did with the russians, let's look at what he did with highly classified information where he pentially burned assets, let's look at his approach. and the fear right now is that we're getting very little information and cooperation, and what we get is usually undermined by the president within a couple of hours of some statement that's being released by somebody. so a lot of people have a lot of questions. there are a lot of notes that need to be received. >> jonathan, also of concern is the one person with real credibility among not just members of the media but the public is h.r. mcmaster and

little by little they're colin powelling him, like the bush administration did saying colin powell has the highest ratings. we're going to put him out there to answer the questions. the question is whether he, the national security adviser, was consulted before donald trump made commentary to the foreign minister about james comey. take a listen. >> when he gave that information to the russians about interfering in our campaign, he didn't even ask for your advice. >> george, what i would like to talk about is where i am right now, in saudi arabia. >> did the president ask your advice about this before he talked about james comey? >> the president always asks for advice before these sorts of sessions, but the subject of the fbi investigation, to my recollection, didn't come up. >> jonathan, has h.r. mcmaster been damaged at all by this

situation? >> oh, absolutely. without question. poor h.r. mcmaster. he looks like he's in a bit of a hostage video there. here is a man who had a sterling reputation before he took that position. and now finds himself in a situation ere he's having to defend the commander in chief fo not doing what previous commanders in chief have done when going toe to toe with the russians. sure, there are lots of things that american presidents want to try to work with russia on, but none of president trump's successors has ever deluded themselves into thinking russia was a friend. now you have h.r. mcmaster, national security adviser, sterling reputation having to ask questions, -- answer questions, in this case not answer questions about whether the president of the united states disrupted sovereignty with russia who stand accused of

interfering in our election, and then being asked whether he was consulted by the president about what to say if the comey situation came up. and then what we haven't talked about is what did mcmaster say if and when that did happen in the oval office? h.r. mcmaster is in an impossible situation right now. so are a lot of people in the trump administration, quite frankly. >> and joan, you've heard all these powers of intrigue that have come out, one saying president trump is frustrated with general mcmaster, that he's a pain, quote, unquote, but at the same time mcmaster seems to have had a great deal of influence over what was said inside saudi arabia today. it almost sounded like the old bush administration not d denigreden denigrating them as a faith. can it be lting if he's being

pushed into telling these kinds of stories ? >> no, he can't, because it's just something we don't believe. every time trump gets near, he is dragging mcmaster with him. he tried to change the conversation with stefanopolous, but he also later in the interview tried to defend trump's remarks about comey as sort of, well, he's trying to get himself more latitude to be able to discuss things with the russians, he's trying to put this behind him. he can't put it behind him. it is an ongoing investigation. it's still happening, comey or not, and the idea that he would say these awful words about somebody who once worked for him also to people who are not our friends, joy, is also kind of stunning. so mcmaster is in an impossible situation. >> it is interesting to watch. you have all these figures who have long been extremely respected among republicans, whether it is jim comey who is about to be a republican.

whether it is bob mueller, the longest serving fbi director in u.s. history or modern history, and now h.r. mcmaster, a very respected person. it does feel like it's difficult to understand why more republicans aren't racing toward those respected figures and not cloo cleaving away from donald trump, but they don't seem to be. >> i think that is slowly happening. h.r. mcmaster was hesitant to take this job originally. it was he was really thinking through it, not just throwing his whole lot into the administration. we all believe trump needs to stay more distanced on these messages and that's why we're having these problems. you're seeing senator ben sass who has been very vocal about russia does not share our values, we cannot be allies with them, but alsoaying there is a difference between illegality and i mprudence. senator john mccain, senator

lindsey graham, all these guys saying back up, wait a second here, and really taking the temperature of public opinion on donald trump. as you continue to see them out in the media and vocal with their constituents, you'll see more republicans come out of the shadows. >> in terms of opinion, jack, inside the intelligence community, how much whiplash is going on right now? now you do have h.r. mcmaster who is taking a credibility hit in terms of being willing to be flak for the institution and you have the others looking inside that issue. >> there is a lot of anger inside the intelligence community right now. imagine sitting across the table from an asset and saying, i'm going to protect you, i'm going to take care of you, i'm going to protect your family the best that i can and do everything that i can, knowing potentially it's the president of the united states who likes to shoot from the hip and doesn't even contemplate the ramifications of what he does, and frankly,

doesn't seem to care. this isn't about imprudence, this is about incompetence. an incompetence question is very big in the intelligence community and watching mcmaster being pushed aside simply because he's been excluded from the room. you're right, he is the adult, but he's the adult the president isn't listening to. at least he doesn't appear to when it comes to this issue. there are a lot of people at langley, at the beltway, at dnd who have a lot of heartbreak and they're watching this seething. >> thank you for your thoughts. we'll have you back on. christy and jonathan will be back later in this show. up next, the worst jobs in d.c.? they might actually be in the white house. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations

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there is no collusion between certainly myself and my campaign, but i can always speak for myself and the russians,

zero. >> with that line, donald trump revealed exactly how much support staffers can expect to receive from their boss as the russian scandal engulfs his administration. that scandal has been issuing daily headlines, utter chaos and backlash from the white house. these three just from the past 10 days alone. my next guest has one piece of advice for staffers, toiling in the circus tent that is the administration, quit while you can. joining me now is michelle goldberg, columnist for that aforementioned op-ed. i have to go to you first, michelle, because you wrote it. run is your advice. >> i think other people have said it's the moral thing to do, it's the decent thing to do. i don't really think those are operative concepts when you talk about people working in this white house. quit in the interest of self-preservation, right? the ship is going down. it might -- let's say it staggers on for a few years, trumpism is going to be an

epithet signifying disgrace for the rest of our lives, and the people who stick around are going to be disgraced. there is room for a couple people to get out now, to get the book deals, to tell the world what they know, to get the cable contracts, to be hailed as heroes by the majority of people in this country who hate donald trump, who are terrified by the daily stream of revelations. but the people who stick around, not only is the rest of their career torpedoed, but they're going to be saddled with massive, six-figure legal bills, legal bills that are going to far outshine their ability to earn that much money. >> he hato that very point, a t campaign aide reached out to the boss suggesting trump set up legal fund to help associates

ensnared in the federal probe into trump campaign contacts. why would any of these people take the risk of getting in the line of legal fire for a boss that clearly isn't going to back them up? >> first of all, i said it many times that this administration and the competency level there makes the administration and veep look very competent. but at the same time you have to look at what's going on. this is a problem set up by donald trump. i gave president obama a l of flak on his lici, but what president obama did very well, he told every faction in his white house, no public squabbles, no leaking to the press. the jared faction, the priebus faction, they're all at open war and that's why you're seeing this. are they going to be disgraced? no, they'll be able to get jobs at other administrations in the future. they are there to serve. they're not morally bankrupt if you're 21 years old and just out

of college. i think kids, when they have the opportunity to go to the white house and serve their country, no matter who is president, i think that's good. >> nobody should go in and attempt to work with this white house and bring adults into the room. you've already seen h.r. mcmaster dragged down, telling these tales that no one believes. you've already seen three people who have been asked, do you want to be director of the fbi, and they say "no." these are partisan republicans. this ridiculous idea of taking merrick garland out so mitch mcconnell could refill it and think that he for any reason would go along with that scheme and take the job. but you're not seeing an enthusiasm to fill the void this administration has in staff, because what does it do for your resume? >> what does it do for your resume or your ability to sleep at night?

probably the main problem the trump administtion has and will continue to have is that the n who sits in the oval fice is not stable. by that i mean, the president is someone who one day will say one thing, and the next day completely undercut himself and say something else, or in the case of the firing of james comey, as fbi director, you make an action, your staff doesn't know about it, they go out there, tell one version of events, then two days later the president goes out there and completely denies und, undercut what the staff said. so if you're working in the administration, you cannot trust that the boss will have your back. you cannot trust that the president will be there either as a stable force in terms of running the country or be there as someone who will stand up and defend you as you brought up at the beginning of this segment. michelle wrote her piece, rick wilson has something in the

"washington post" today, a republican strategist who is also giving the same advice that michelle gave, and that is, to people in the trump administration, get out while you can, get out while you still have your dignity, get out while you're still able to make a living. >> the point, evan, i guess is you've also got -- if the team could put up the number of gaps still left to fill. by this point in his administration, barack ama ha confirmed 89 people staff members had been sent but not confirmed. these are appointments, sorry. bush had 117 confirmed. trump had 59 sent to the senate but not confirmed. there are a lot of spots left to fill and it's not clear what there is to fill. if donald trump would pledge loyalty to him when he gives zero loyalty to anyone else. >> i think what you're actually looking at is there are a lot of

people at the senior level who don't want to go in and have their careers tarnished. when you're talking about the junior staffers, it's okay for them to go in but they're not going to run a business administration. i think why mcmaster is saying what he is despite being undercut by the president, when he gave those statements, he was trying to signal to our allies to continue in intelligence sharing because what president trump had done was so bad, it was damage control. >> it does seem to be an administration that is in desperate need for help from grown-ups. if grown-ups don't want to do it, is it worth doing it and get the book deal in six months? >> i didn't say this in my piece, but i spoke to a republican looking for a job, and one of the recruiters said to him, just take the job, and

the rs time you want to quit, you can take the book deal. the people who are stopping donald trump from cavalierly stopping a war with north korea, they need to take their place. we need general mattis, we need the adults. the communication staff, they can all leave tomorrow and it will hurt neither the country or themselves. >> and they'll probably get huge book deals. coming up in our next hour, lawrence o'donnell is here, and our panel talks about the legacy of roger ahles. more on joy reid after the break.

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david clark of doing the bare minimum, no siree bob. get rid of all those do-dads festooning his lapel. this guy has a flare for flare. in this week it drew the ire of writer and military veteran charles climber who called clark'sty pins and decorations that certainly looked like decoration. charles says, military decks are earned. they take hard work and sacrifice. clymer references general colin powell who described a uniform as a soldier's resume with each

badge marking a distinguishment of service. this is what the real thing looks like. meanwhile, all that candy on clark who is facing criminal charges after an inmate died in one of his jails, men who tell a story not about medal and sacrifice but about fear and authority. up next with my panel, clark says he's joining the department of homeland security. but news overnight suggests he might not want to believe everything he says. stay with us. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia

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it is time for this nation to stand up with one voice and to condemn and shun this movement called black lives matter. i would like to see the southern poverty law center place black lives matter alongside those other hate groups that were mentioned. >> first of all, there is no

police brutality in america. we ended that back in the '60s. >> those are just a couple of the golden nuggets for the role of using speeches' claims to attack the movement. if clark is to be believed, he's add agnew title to his resume of sheriff and democrat in name onlily. in milwaukee, clark announced he had been tapped by the trump administration for assistant secretary of department of homeland security, a position that would not require senate confirmation. while dhs has not confirmed the alleged job offer, clark might need to update his application with this. according to cnn, clarke plagiarized portions of his masters thesis, wait for the irony, homeland security. joining us now, conservative

talk show host, charlie sykes. team team team. i should read clarke's response to the "milwaukee journal sentinel" about the plagiarism charge saying only someone with a political agenda would say this is plagiarism in e-mail from the paper. the plagiarism was alleged by the aclu. >> this may be the pretext this administration should not make this appointment that would be reckless and bizarre since flint. you have the deaths in the jail and threats against private citizens and somebody who proposed suspending habeas corpus and jailing as many as one million americans who might be suspected of -- sentiments, there are so many ways sheriff

clarke has disqualified himself. this is the last little piece here. if they're looking for a way out of this, this might be it, if they are. >> it's interesting this would even be considered. we can't confirm whether he's getting this job or just bragging. but julia in the "washington post" had this deputy dhhs job clarke says he's getting. she said he's not fit to serve at the agency tasked with domestic security for all americans. july 2015, 17 june 1936, hitler united all police forces under one commander, obama trying to do the same thing using the doj, comparing obama to hitler. before long black lies matter will join forces with isis to bring down our legal constituted republic. you heard it first here. a third one -- we don't have to

go into any more than that. senator, your thoughts. >> exactly. what we've been dealing in milwaukee county, someone missing in action basically a fraud not just in their thesis they wrote but their commitment and oath they took to the people of milwaukee county. the failures charlie mentioned the sheriff has done in this jail. when you can allow an infant to die all the way to someone with mental health issues and cry for help for seven days and not be present because you're gal vanting around the nation to help the 45th president, it also shows a lack of adjustment by the 45th president. people should be very concerned. he seems to have no regard for public life -- for human life. >> this is a time the republican party is struggling to expand beyond essentially 90% white

party and they turn to somebody like this as an example of a on of color who supports them. ifou look at the knows report on clarke, currently the target of multiple lawsuits accusing him of harassing a private senior citizen and abusing staff in his jails and seven employees face criminal charges turning o off -- for a week and causing dehydration. there was a baby jeopardize in his jail, a woman shackled while giving birth, is this what the republican party wants to associate with and if so, why? >> yes. why? it's a mystery. this has to come from president trump himself. i can't imagine my fellow wisconsinite has been present. while he's been awol as sheriff he has been touting for trump in

his pictures. i've known sheriff clarke for a decade and a half and a time he could have been a powerful spokesman but he has arrogance and political extremism. given all the problems of the trump administration, do they really want to take this guy on board. as you point out to add to this bizarre story, he announces he's taken this job and so far the department of homeland security says, no, no, we haven't signed off on that. >> as he goes around with all of these medals making himself look like a great military figure. on ebay, there is one of the pins that sheriff david clarke goes around wearing. you can buy it on ebay for $6.99. come on. >> i told you he's a fraud.

i told you he's a fraud. i'm going to say this to you, charlie, i appreciate where you are. he's your frankenstein. you helped to create him in the fashion that is the rhetoric that he has done. i appreciate you saying, you know what, this guy is over the top. really, with all due respect is not a good choice for homeland security or any position in the federal government. i'm happy as milwaukee resident we can have an opportunity to have our government appoint someone who can do the job for the people and be a partner with milwaukee, the city of milwaukee and not, very candidly, adding fuel to the fire and almost moving us to martial law. i appreciate someone like the candidates i see. i had an opportunity to meet mr. lucas. i'm really excited for the fact i believe we will be able to have somebody in milwaukee

county to do the job. >> i wish we could have time to let mr. frankenstein own his monster. i applaud you for that. >> extra years in purgatory. the highly rated lawrence o'donnell will be right here after the break. looks delicious, huh? -yeah. -richard, try to control yourself. -i can't help it. -and how about that aroma? -love that aroma! umph! -craveability, approved! -oh, can i have some now?! -sure! help yourself. -wait, what? -irresistibly planters. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products.

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ugh. that's unfortunate. there's a better option. the capital one venture card. with venture, you earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, everywhere, every day. not just airline purchases. seems like a no-brainer. what's in your wallet? no politician in history, and i say this with great surety, has been treated worse or more unfairly. you can't let them get you down. you can't let the critics and the nay-sayers get in the way of your dreams. i guess that's why we won. >> that was commencement speech. donald trump feels like he's getting picked on. today, we decided to bring in someone who can give a fair and

honest assessment how he's de so far as president. joining me now this is host of msnbc's hit show, "the last word," lawrence o'donnell. >> i want to thank you for delaying the broadcast of your show today so i could sleep late. the guy, the crew is really grateful. >> you don't respect soccer enough. >> is that what was going on? >> that's what was happening. there was also a speech. what did you think of donald trump resetting himself. no more islamic terrorism. >> given where he was he did work in a significant amount of that. i think he -- obviously very different stylistically from the campaign and didn't condemn the entire religion which he has done before. when this president doesn't condemn the entire religion people are saying he abandoned his base. what he did for his base was use a lot of the words they wanted to hear, in front of that audience, but, you know, i don't

think any of them bet that the first foreign trip was going to be to the home country of the 9/11 attackers, and the phrase " 9/11" would not dear be mentioned by this president of the united states. >> not only that he had his son-in-law cut that sweet deal, $100 billion deal, arms deal on the way in the door. it is all very transactional. i am very struck by the fact we check out the drudge report this morning growing about the horse drawn carriages and perform and circumstances, the guy you beat up on every night, sean hannity, i'm sure they will endorse what he said. >> they love the saudi dictatorship today as long as ey are welcoming donald trump. that's all it takes to get that kind of cheer from that kind of media. >> interesting, even the curtsy, when president obama -- >> have we decided it was a curtsy? >> it was a curtsy. >> it was not a bow. would a bow be bad?

>> a bow would be bad if barack obama did. you will give us the fair and balanced assessment here. would trump had given a full bow would he not have give an pass from his friends on the right? >> they would find a way, apparently. they always have. but he's at hisaticest point so far. this is this weakest point he's been in even with his own supporters, the polls indicate that. there's a spot somewhere on the calendar where everything looks wrong. if you were the pro nixon network on his second inauguration, okay, he won a landslide victory and wiped out mcgovern and they had no idea what to do after this. you were in a fantastic business if you were running the pro

nixon network on the day of his inauguration and 18 month later you were out of business. somewhere along that line there was the abandonment of nixon. it wasn't 120 days in. >> i'm glad you went there. that this is main reason i wanted to talk to you today. we've been gorging onyx sonostall ga looking what -- on nixon nostalgia and what's happening 120 days in. they weren't in the majority but willing to turn on the president and say so. in this case you had absolute obedience out of the leadership of the house and senate. i see no change in that no matter what happens. >> a lot of this has to do with who the members of congress actually are now. they truly in every sense are not the same people they used to be. there are -- this is on both sides. people who run for the house of

representatives, in order to be lobbyist, they want to do four years, six years and get a job on k-street and wildly increase their income. that's not who used to run for the house on either side, either party. running for the house of representatives, as a republican, in the nixon era was almost a selfless act. you were running into the permanent minority in the house of representatives where you would never be allowed in the room by the democrats on any governing decision. those people, you look at who they were, they had much more snow billty of purpose than the -- snnobility of purpose. the quality has droed dramatically in the congress. that is something we haven't talked about delayed reaction of

what's going on in trump world. >> it strikes me. i think we give too much credit to democrats if we say only republicans lack strength of action. democrats, when they saw obamacare was going to hurt them, a lot decided not to run or left congress. you saw a lot of people say, they took the evan bayh route and too much partisanship, i'm done. you're not seeing that on the republican side. >> once you look at the names of the republicans part of communicating to nixon this is over or the names of the republicans who were serious about digging into this, howard baker, you look at that list, just tell me, take your time. who's the howard baker in the republican senate right now? >> i can't find him because the people of the media our profession gives laurels to, lindsey grahams and john mccains still 100% back the president and use their time. lindsey graham uses a lot of his team in committee hearing

meetings to still go after hillary clinton's e-mail. >> a certain amount of watching there is lindsey graham knowing who his voters are. >> sure. >> if i'm the president and watching lindsey graham i'm terrified of him. i see the direction he's going. i don't care if he throws off some fire to his voting base in south carolina, why is he still coming in this direction after me, the president. in the nixon era, the dference between the parties was much less. you saw people quote work their base much less because the gap between a moderate republican most of them were and moderate democrat most of them were was something people wouldn't even recognize today. they didn't have to play around in the ways that lindsey graham might be. i always watch what they're doing? he's having a hearing about

what? he wants what? i don't care what political stuff he says on the side. none of what lindsey graham is good news for the trump white house. >> if you take yourself back -- you are a starffer for a republican senator in 2018, what is the marriage risk abandoning donald trump and getting republican support or sticking with donald trump and having hist story call infamily or winding up on the wrong side if he goes down. >> i personally advise each senator to stick with his or her own actual view of the situation. play it honest with your voters. that's one of the things -- i know in pli politics, it's usua last resort, i can't get away with this or that, okay, i guess i'll tell the truth. in this instance it's your only

guide. trump is too erratic. the voters will recognize in most states that raur just being honest about it. bernie sanders rise, i think, was fueled almost entirely by the sense this guy is honest. one of the biggest indicators was this guy is honest, it was okay with him if you called him a socialist, he would say, yeah, i am. everyone in america knows, wow, that's the worst word you can have beside your name in american politics other than possibly muslim and he says it. he must be honest. the actual attacke par particul follow that must be more important. that's not something i believed at the out-set, i developed this. i worked for a senator whose default position was honesty, a liberal democrat who would win every upstate county, every republican upstate county except

for one. he would go into these town halls, senator monahan and ask him why you're funding for aides research and my wife has breast cancer. he would answer the question, wouldn't duck the question. most of the people in the republican town halls i would see him in upstate would leave the building disagreeing with 80%. but the overhear you get when going out the door, he sure is smart and sure is honest. they'd end up voting for him. >> this is the question i have. i want to talk about the democrats a little bit. bernie sanders isn't even a member of the party. they need a leader to rally around. you still have a lot of divisions between the faction and party. they downton't seem to have muc leader. california had an election and black woman lost and

establishment person won. >> here is how worried the democrat partyhould be about that con. in january of 1973, george mcgovern had lost 49 states, maybe one, two, i can't remember. wiped out, total wipeout. he was this extreme, the most liberal candidate the democrats have ever nominated was george mcgovern. liberalism was crushed because they lost. it became this par rye yah within the party. they can't go conservative. you say, who's the leader? who's the leader? how will we do anything. the next president of the united states is literally a guy no one's ever heard of in 1973, jimmy carter. there was no leader of the party. they did just fine in the next presidential election. >> are we in the -- in the current cycle, we're 121 days into donald trump, the cycle is

so compressed and fast it does in a lot of ways feel like the democrats are in a vacuum. maxine waters is exciting, don't think she's running for president but leaders of pieces of the party but feels like without someone to speak for them, they feel they're all over the place. >> you have to understand inside professional politics when the other side is collapsing nobody worries about -- in fact, usually this is what they want. they want to be out of the line of fire. what you might think of as a democratic leader is a target for hatred by the trump side, by republicans. >> right. >> you don't any longer get to stand up and say, hey, i'm mike mansfield. i'm the democratic leader of the united states senate. i uld like to have all the respect that comes with that. no, no, no. you are the target of our heat seeking missiles when you become nancy pelosi or chuck schumer.

the presidential candidates we will see like elizabeth warren and harris and others, i think they're all playing it exactly right, which is they don't want to rise to the level of being the target of the heat-seeking missiles. they will go after elizabeth warren as much as they can because their side bets she is the most viable candidate. they want to harm her. notice trump wants to harm her when ever he can he will reach out and harm her. he doesn't worry about chuck schumer running against him for president, he does worry about her. i think the shape of the democratic party in our public consumption of all these stories is just about right. in other words, they're not in them. they don't have to be because it's the "washington post" versus donald trump today and the "washington post" won. the "new york times" versus president trump today and the "new york times" won. donald trump is losing everyday. when you're in the democratic side on the inside with the door

closed among professionals, they go -- >> people have described the "washington post" and "new york times" as newspaper ""game of thrones."" you did leave out the rock. he wants to be president. >> i saw that. >> we have learned nothing as a country. thank you for coming lawrence o'donnell. this is fun. wel keou do it agai of course, you can catch the la wk week nights at 10:00 p.m. you already do, which is why he's winning, sorry, sean hannity, coming up, the legacy of roger ailes, next. are allergies holding you back? break through your allergies. try new flonase sensimist allergy relief instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist experience you'll barely feel. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms.

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but we've got the get tdigital tools to help. now with xfinity's my account, you can figure things out easily, so you won't even have to call us. change your wifi password to something you can actually remember, instantly. add that premium channel, and watch the show everyone's talking about, tonight. and the bill you need to pay? do it in seconds. because we should fit into your life, not the other way around. go to xfinity.com/myaccount this week, former fox news

chairman roger ailes died at the allege of 77. once a consultant for richard nixon, george h.w. bush is known for creating fox news and he also had hand in this network and "america's talking." he resigned a year ago for multiple sexual claims. his greatest creation is not just a right wing powerhouse but alternate reality and fax that might be uncomfortable for republican supporters or even ignored. joining me, thank you for coming

back. i want to first go to you on this, kirsten. it can seem harsh. we are the competitor obviously of fox news. the reality of the difference between what people who watch fox know and hear and they are more likely to only watch fox to only watch fox other than people that watch msnbc jump around. media managers come piled 51 screen shots to show how fox covered the comey story about how comey fired dating to when the story broke to the evening of may 12th. four of these screen grabs. you see the one in the left-hand corner, lock her up, about hillary clinton. media hysteria over comey firing. media meltdown. democrats and comey. and the night about the comey

memo or about comey, the comey conversation with donald trump, msnbc ran a breaking news headline that said trump asked comey to shut down the flynn investigation. cnn, sources comey memo states trump asked him to end flynn probe. fox, clinton foundation, where is it now? >> here's the thing. roger ailes was good at creating a style and understand show business as show business and understand his audience very well and what sold and that's what fox continues to do. it is in the model of entertainment casting villains and creating roles for people to play and inserting them in those roles. the reason it took on so well you think of the 1990s when it was created, i don't think they created this division but it was a response to the division we're experiencing in the country with the impeachment scandal and how republicans went very very hard against democrats. that was when you saw this split

in the country started to exacerba exacerbate. where the audience went that's where the business goes. i would say the legacy is very complex and gretchen carlson, a very good friend of mine, former miss america, and hold her in high regard. there is a legacy of what he did in business and people he worked with. we should always try to balance and lack at both. as individuals when we're remembered we want to be remembered more than our demons. >> you said something very important to one of my favorite books i keep on selling this book and not getting a commission for it. joan, you wrote a book "what's the matter with white people." what kristen just said you had this group of americanshat me to believe the media were conspiring against them. new deal democrats that became reagan republicans and fox served that constituency. >> kirsten is being more charitable to roger ailes than i

would be. not as though the walked in and found this divided this country. he divided it as a political consultant and worked with richard nixon and helped him tap into the civil rights and anti-war backlash splitting the country in the '60s, he helped nixon become president and did it with less overt racism. there is a favorite store where he says we will get this guy who will ask nixon at a town hall, what about those n words and will give nixon a chance to say, how dare you, sir and pivots to l law and order and did it in the same things and built a business on it in the '90s. >> it is the way he helped h.w. bush get elected. the black body a scary thing, you have to vote with it

dangling out there is part of his legacy, too. >> absolutely. the word we haven't talked about is grievance. roger ailes built an entire network around grievance what they've been talking about. in the op-ed page, they talk about he and roger ailes would go to luncht michaels and have the premier table with a vast view of the room with all the media elite who lunch at michaels, particularly on wednesdays, people coming up to the table, kissing his ring, giving him compliments and singing his praises. the thing john kline found most remarkable, even though the media elite of the country were bowing down to roger ailes at this restaurant, he felt aggrieved. he said, they're saying these nice things but they hate doing it. i piggyback on what joan said, i'm not as inclined to be as

charitable to roger ailes. i don't begrudge him his business success but i do take issue with what it has done to america and the discourse. we have a president of the united states who really challenges not only who we are as a country but our very democratic small d institutions. >> that sense of grievance, it sounds like donald trump, very similar, donald trump is a great consumer of fox news, he is a big fan of it and echos that same -- they're not being nice to me and even if they arey they don't want to do it. it does seem ailes transmitted that sense of grievance down the line. gabe sherman had this tweet, a long time biographer of ailes. during the eulogy for roger ailes, his son apparently threatened the women who alleged harassment against his father. the quote was i'm coming after them and hell is coming with me.

that kind of anger is intesting. >> it's sad. frankly, it's unacceptable in light of everything that happened. i will say i truly do believe there is an effort within fox to change. there is a knowledge things need to change, culture needs to change with the murdoch boys coming in and taking things in a different direction and they understand where their audience is going, getting older and older. young people have netflix and hulu and every other kind of media screaming device in their hand, how do we engage those younger viewers. i think they understand that demographic is shifting. it's a transition phase and i think everyone is working to that so they don't get through this again. >> bob becker was fired for the second time. he said i made an audience for people 55 to dead, white men

sitting on their couches with the remote control all day and all night and he looked at me and said, they don't want to see you, they don't want to know you exist. i didn't know -- all the things that that meant. >> right. it was a picture how he was catering to a certain kind of grievance. i hope the murdoch brothers realize that is a declining audience and they change their practices radically. >> one of the other things that hasn't changed over there at the house that roger ailes built is this idea of deflecting bad news about donald trump into something else. the current one is tragic, the family of seth rich sent a seat and desist orts -- cee and desist order to fox news. they decided to turn his pain about conspiracy theory into something about hillary clinton and her campaign. >> i'm not sure what that's about. it shows a lack of shame. i wrote a piece saying president

trump lacks the one thing his 44 predecessors have, a sense of shame. shame is that emotion that blocks you from doing something that you should later regret or you shouldn't do to begin with. the fact that a grieving family not for the first time has to demand fox doing this is really strange tragic. why fox does this is beyond me. >> i think they should listen to kirsten. thank you all very much. mike pence delivers a commencement address at notre dame and students deliver their own message, coming up. hey, man. oh!

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graham. welcome back. a few hours from now a presidential accountability town hall kicks off in california hosted by democratic congressman barbara lee, named nixon to trump. she wille joined by political experts and friends of our show and about trump's scandal risen presidency and talking about impeachment for trump himself. with us is the senior representative of the house committee that controls the purse strings. >> i will go with you, senator,

why this event today and what do you hope to accomplish? >> i think it's so important the public continue to be engaged with regard to presidential accountability. there are so many issues to be unraveled. i'm pleased mr. nance and dean will be with us. i was an intern during the watergate era. i swear, it feels like that. my councils have passed resolutions calling for investigations to continue. the public around the country needs to know what is taking place, uncover the facts and call for a bipartisan independent commission. congresswoman karen bass held one in southern california and we are holding one in berkeley and i'm hoping others will hold the town meetings. >> you have had some from the senate on the sunday shows this morning, dianne feinstein

talking about the russian investigation. >> do you get the sense the federal investigation into this includes something beyond the trump campaign, a cover-up question? >> i think that's right. it does. i know what the president told me when he called to say he was firing him. that turned out not to be the reason. >> i'm ask you, malcolm, how wide range doing you think this investigation ultimately will go? >> you know, as i wrote in my book "plot to hack america" i will be discussing with john dean today in the watergate trials. nine months ago we saw this would go in multiple directions. its main thrust, they think this is 500 different parts, it's not, one thing. the russian intervention in the u.s. elections for the first time in american history. did the administration know

anything about it? were there other american citizens who may have been involved with the known russian intelligence officers who did this act. i think it will go in many different areas because it involves finance and espionage. >> that is what frustrates a lot of people, representative lee, quite frankly. we have been talking about russian interference with malcolm literally since last july. i feel like we've done the same show over and over again week after week after weekend going back to last summer. people are behaving as if this is something that cropped up after donald trump was elected. how is it the entire country and government apparatus has been so inert to what russia has done to our country. >> it'fortunate every step of the way we've seen the white house attempt to quash these investigations, what the intelligence committee chair, his behavior, he had to recuse

himself. we see attorney general sessionsed a to recuse himself and he crops up later in the firing of fbi director comey. we see the president providing classified information to the russians, hoping that this would end the investigation. every step of the way, you have seen attempts to make sure that the public is not informed, this investigation does not move any further. i tell you one thing. now, with regard to the special counsel now locking at a criminal investigation as well as the civic -- the possible obstruction of justice, possible collusion with the russians during the elections, i think once we get an independent bipartisan commission established and hopefully republicans will sign onto that we can really expose what has actually taken place. so it takes time but we need to really revv this up and why

these forum is around the country are important. >> how successful an operation was it from russia's point of view to have had michael flynn a compromised person even for 27 days in the united states despite all the warnings about him? >> it's terrifying. quite honestly we have no clue as to the depth of what happened with michael flynn. you have to remember he was one of the first americanfficers ever to visit the headquarters of russian intelligence in 2013 when he was still director of intelligence agency, then was soon after fired and became a disgruntled very high ranking intelligence person. in the regular world that wouldn't matter very much. hey would become a defense contractor. he started dealing with foreign government force pay and the russians paid him. that would be the first entryway

to turning somebody into an asset or worst case, agent for that nation. for him to ascend where he was, everyone i speak to in the intelligence community from junior baby operator to former directors of the cia and nsa, everyone is alarmed that this could possibly be the greatest russian intelligence operation in history and michael flynn may have been part of their operation. >> congresswoman, as we all know, impeachment, which is a word being thrown around a lot emerges from the house of representatives. yet the party on the other side, the republicans who control the house of representatives have been almost unanimous in their unswerving support for donald trump, you're starti ing to see few cracks, and let's listen to marco rubio about what republicans say about trump.

>> if any president tried to impede an investigation any president no matter who it is, by interfering with the fbi, yes, that could be problematic, not just problematic, obviously potential obstruction of justice. >> what would it take from your day-to-day conversations with republicans in the thousand move from that a blandly chast says toing rhetoric of any president doing that to holding the current president accountable? >> these investigations will determine whether there was obstruction of justify and obstruction of justice constituents grounds for impeachment. the republicans need to understand that, be for real, go where the facts lead and hopefully they will sign onto our bipartisan commission because this will make sure that the investigation moves forward in a more expedite and objective manner. you do hear more republicans now beginning to question the

behaviors and actions of this president. i tell you what mr. nance and dean will talk about this afternoon will give us more investigation how this moves forward to make sure the american people know exactly what took place and what the consequences are. >> malcolm, if a commission were to be formed, what should it attempt to do and discover? >> n we have a special unsel. he is going to be carrying out the broad range but very deep dive investigations using the fbi and other agencies. anything beyond that, if there's going to be a commission further on, its number one goal would have to be to determine how did we get here? how did we get to a situation where a foreign nation and its intelligence agencies could actually try to affect an election outcome? what systems did they use?

how did they use them? were americans complicit? if they were complicit, why did they do that? did anybody else and any other thing including the media, did they contribute to this? that's what the job of a commission would be. you have the house intelligence committee and senate intelligence committee probably defer more to the general counsel's investigation, once all this was washed out and find out whether there was criminality and whether people were completely innocent and all just the russians, we need a national dialogue how do we never get to this point again and restore the nation back to norms. >> thank you. good luck with your event. >> i will leave stream this for those on my facebook page who would like to watch it. >> absolutely. please do that. thank you. coming up at the top of the

hour, the latest reaction to donald trump's first major speech on the world stage. what's that?

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a quick update to our top story this afternoon about an hour ago, phillip rucker tweeting out from the "washington post" that rex tillerson held press conference in riyadh per the white house pool but american reporters wer not invited nor told about it, echos of that infamous washington meeting and reporters not invited to the tillerson news conference today. meanwhile, a big change is coming to the naacp. on friday the national board decided not renew the contract of the organization's current president, cornell william brooks in the role three years. it comes at a time when the

north carolina chapter of the naacp is also looking for new leadership. its current process, reverend william barber will be stepping down after 12 years with the organization. he will be with me next to discuss his big post naacp plans. i assume this is going to break down on me... mid-finale. mmmhmm. i'm going to pretend this is urgent and go hide over there perfect. wouldn't it be great if everyone said what they meant? the citi® double cash card does. earn 1% cash back when you buy, and 1% as you pay. double means double.

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when we come to washington to deal about questions and income, we will not come here to beg, welcome here to demand justice and to demand that the nation grant us what is truly our world! >> on december 4, 1967, martin luther king jr. announced the poor people's campaign aimed at addressing the economic and social disparities in america. dr. king vowed to leave the nation's poor and disinherited to the nation's poor and jobs and address grievances and national security for all.

king was assassinated just weeks before that came to fruition. barber has vowed to resurrect is campaign. senior lecturer at repairs of the breach joins me now. thank you so much for taking the time, especially on a sunday, to be with us. why revive the poor people's campaign and how will that effort be new and different this time around? >> i stepped down last week after 12 years and still work for the board of the naacp but as a clergy thought we need to do expand and re-engage a narrative of our country. dr. king said we need to focus on racism and poor people. we need to revive systemic poverty and the war on it today.

we need to re-engage in this town. we need something besides just a constant focus on trump. we need to focus on the state capitol and we need an offense that brings people together. so in 25 states and the district of columbia, joy, we're going to be organizing persons to have 40 days of direct action in 2018 to drive home this issue. we have to deal with systemic racism and poverty in the war on economy. we have something auditing america, and dr. james forbes is leading that with tim tyson and attorney shelly brookson. many others are coming together because it's time for us to re-engage this issue. >> you wrote a piece where you talked about this effort, and you said 64 million americans make less than a living wage while millions of children and adults continue to live without access to health care even as extremist republicans and congress intend to strip away from milonmore.

the poverty rate among blacks are 24%, 9% for whites. can you separate this idea of racism from poverty, and if you don't separate them, can you get a broad support base for your agenda? >> you can't separate, you have to have an interrelated intersection or movement that helps people understand. there are 102 million working poor people. there are 14 million poor children. when you desegregate that, there are more poor people in the community. there are 8 million more poor african-americans than white people. when we look at child poverty living wage, denial of health care, and when you look at those areas of low labor density, they

are the same states. many times they are people that need to be together, black and white people, latino people have be s cynically divided. we're talking about 40 days of direct actions in 25 state capitols and the district of columbia. we're talking about civil disobedience. we're talking about it being gender based. what if for 40 days all of our various movements could come together around the issue of addressing systemic issues and poverty and the war economy and rce it back to the international conversation. we had 26 debates. not one debate on poverty. not one debate on border suppression and not one debate on the war economy. >> it's important to broaden the base for the support for it, but it's kind of hard to escape the

differences between the way the two parties operate. the "washington post" has a piece out that talks about donald trump's new budget. it's not all about donald trump, but his new budget, just some highlights from it. it eliminates the u.s. funding. it eliminates $3 billion in grants. humanity, food grants are gone. poor people are really targeted in this budget. how do you separate party politics when one party seems very determined to go after the poor? >> first of all, that's what i mean. trump may have proposed it but the congress has to pass it. i'm not saying ignore trump, i'm saying don't let mcconnell off the hook, don't let ryan off the hook, don't let state capitols off the hook. don't let people not examine them. if a particular party is engaging in an activity, we should have a movement that can

judge them at the poll and also challenge them in the courts. >> congratulations. you were given an honorary award for seminars. thank you for your time. be sure to join us next weekend for more "a.m. joy." coming up next, more news at the top of the hour. you real want to go. with the united leageplus explorer card, you'll get a free checked bag, 2 united club passes... priority boarding... and 50,000 bonus miles. everything you need for an unforgettable vacation. the united mileageplus explorer card. imagine where it will take you.

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♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ good to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts here in new york at msnbc world headquart s headquarters. it is 2:00 in the east and day number two of the trump trip. a deliberate and pointed speech at some times sweeping. take a listen. >> i stand before you as a