"dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ good to have you with me. i'm thomas roberts here in new york at msnbc world headquart s headquarters. it is 2:00 in the east and day number two of the trump trip. a deliberate and pointed speech at some times sweeping. take a listen. >> i stand before you as a representative of the american

people to deliver a message of friendship and hope and love. that is why i chose to make my first foreign visit a trip to the heart of the muslim world, to the nation that serves as custodian of the two holiest sites in the islamic faith. i also promise that america will not seek to impose our way of life on others but to outstretch our hands in the spirit of cooperation and trust. >> above all, america seeks peace, not war. muslim nations must be willing to take on the burden if we are going to defeat terrorism and send its wicked idealogy into e oblivion. i will travel to jerusalem and

bethlehem and then to the vatican, visiting many of the holiest places inhe thr abrahamic faiths. if these three faiths can join together in cooperation, then peace in this world is possible, including peace between israelis and palestinians. >> all right, so a lot to dive into for this hour. i want to go straight to riyadh, saudi arabia. hallie jackson joins us now. i've been seeing tweets about whether rex tillerson, secretary of state, was having a press conference and american journalists were not allowed to go. have you had any conversation about a press briefing that happened? >> yeah. or not told to go, as appears to be the case. let me walk you through what happened. there was some confusion earlier in the evening just before president trump got to this center to combat global extremism which is where he is now. as you know, there is a small

pool of reporters, they're called, a small group of reporters that travels very close to the president. there is some 90-plus american journalists here. obviously all of them can't be with the president altogether time, so this small group rotates. that pool, which then disseminates information to everyone else, indicated that at the conference center where the speech happened earlier in the day, secretary tillerson and the saudi foreign minister held some kind of briefing with reporters. the american delegation had not been informed of this and was not able to then logistically get back over to where this was happening. it's still kind of a question mark how this all went down. we're still trying to figure it out. in the meantime we received from our journalist friends around the world what secretary tiern hado say in his opening remarks, and he cald this speech that the president lived day historic. obviously it would have been nice to be there to see it ourselves as far as the u.s. delegation, but we're trying to figure out where that breakdown

occurred and give you more information what exactly rex tillerson said. i would say the secretary and the foreign minister did a press conference yesterday where they did take some questions from the assembled media delegation. >> it rain yathe iranian regime suffering victims are rich with history. the people of iran have endured hardship and despair for their leader's reckless pursuit of conflict and terror. >> reporter: and that, of course, was president trump earlier today. in that speech is, his administration had said delivered and aimed at the muslim world. those were his remarks on iran. not unexpected we might hear this kind of tough talk from the president who, after all, through his entire campaign and administration has been very tough on iran. i would imagine the saudi hosts were happy to hear that kind of talk and to hear that kind of discussion.

implicit in this, of course, was a rebuke to former president obama whose administration helped negotiate the irani nuclear deal. so interesting the president did make those remarks you just heard specifically about the threat from iran. >> so hallie, when we think about other major parts of this speech, the bonds of friendship and security and culture and commerce that many of the countries outside of the u.s. that the president was trying to speak to, muslim majority countries that we all share, but that muslim couries hav to lead on ridding those countries of radicalization, and he used the refrain of drive them out, drive them out over and over again. have you heard about any of the headlines, if this is playing internationally? >> reporter: yes, i think you're right, to drive them out was significant and significant to the president was putting the burden or onus on these majority muslim nations in the middle east here to combat isis and the

fight against terror. just a couple minutes ago, i just got back, actually, at being a sort of local market here in riyadh. a producer took me out and we had the chance to talk. this was off camera. totally anecdotal and most of these folks had not had the opportunity to see this speech as they had been out and about. but overall on the visit from president trump, it was almost across-the-board optimism for what this could mean more relations moving forward. one man said to our producer, if the olive branch is offered, we will take it. this is in the context of, hey, the past remarks that president trump has made on thinking that islam hates americans, his travel ban, the rhetoric that a lot of critics see as inflammatory toward the muslim world, not concern for these folks i had a chance to get out there and talk with. you heard a lot of people expressing hope that ultimately this will create a better relationship between the two countries. >> hallie jackson traveling in

riyadh, saudi arabia, along with the president. hallie, thank you very much. joining me now, former spokesperson and white house director and a senior fellow at the brookings institute and chair for peace and development at university of maryland. we've been watching the president's speech live but also watching a lot of the reaction to this. the bar, i would imagine, because the reaction has been the president did well but the bar was very low. this was a paced speech, but what was your reaction and how do you think he did? >> are you asking me or -- >> yes. >> sorry. so from the point of view of the low bar, yes, of course. this is probably the most dignified speech he's ever given, certainly as president. but from the point of view of

the -- of how audiences in the middle east take it, it sounds different than americans hear. most people probably look at it as patronizing. public opinion was totally ignored. he gave the rulers what they want. he gave the rulers attention and focused on the rulers' issues, confronting iran, confronting militancy, no focus on democracy at all which is what they want to hear. but the public really dismisses all of that and it sounds like they have been lectured about islam. so he does well in delivering what was a packaged deal. the rulers wanted something from him and he gave them something. he gave them the claim he's creating more american jobs, signing huge trade deals. he made the statement about cutting the funding to terrorists, even used the term islamic terrorism. certainly his audience in the

u.s., they will hear that as music to their ears. everybody is getting something except for the major elephant in the room, which is most arab and muslim opinion, which will dismiss this. when you're talking about fighting terrorism and extremism, if you ignore that element, you're losing the battle. >> he used the phrase islamic extremism and we were watching this live. we only had a few excerpts prior to the president's speech. it was roughly a half hour long. but to shivly's point, in advance we heard him say we are not here to lecture, how to live, how to worship, we are here to offer partnership based on the pursuit of a better future for all of us. from the two futures that the president laid out, how do you think he did, and do you think that the muslim world is going to embrace that, that the onus

is on them to drive out terrorists? >> certainly it was a speech designed for the leaders themselves, who frankly are dealing with their own challenges of having educated, employed public. you have 60% of the muslim world in the middle east under the age of 25. that is a burgeoning population that is at the core of addressing a long-term solution of violent extremism. it's not just a matter of addressing the rulers as he did today. we say rulers very carefully because the majority of the people in the room are not democratically elected leaders, so these are people also looking to maintain power in a very authoritarian and rigid way. so these rulers are not interested in things like raising the minimum wage. i talked to one gulf family royal member who asked me what the point was of even having a minimum wage. so there is a major cultural disconnect when we're talking about ourommunities hing

shared interests whereas our leaders certainly do. they have an interest in managing the war-torn environment that they live in in the middle east, they have a shared interest in keeping u.s. troops out of the middle east. certainly nobody in the middle east wants to see another iraq, and they're watching very closely to see what the united states does in syria and iran as well. so this was a speech targeted very much for the rulers in the room for a domestic u.s. audience, but not necessarily leading to the underlying -- und underpinnings that will solve long-term extremisextremism. >> so shively, certainly with the president delivering this speech, it was a quiet environment. there was no applause, there was no real reaction to certain lines the president delivered. do you think he appeared inspirational? that he also appeared to be someone that these people can

kco coalesce around that vision? >> he was more presidential than we have seen him as an american, but in the mideast, people like him for his purpose as a ruler running the room. they like him on iran, they like closeness to him, they like that he's not going to push them on democracy. they like all of that. but the public around them, they don't see him as inspirational. the public sees them as lecturing them, and frankly, look at the headlines. what's the takeaway? you look at the different headlines around us. arabia television on line, they have two headlines out of this. the king says we don't blame the iranian people for the crimes of the regime, number one. trump says iran funds and arms

terrorist groups. iran, number two. you know, the hezbollah arm, their headline is signing a $400 billion deal with the u.s., obviously meaning in a time of austerity they're buying weapons, so that's the one they want to highlight. everybody is going to spin it their way. by the way, here in the u.s., too. breitbart led with islamic terrorism. they're giving him credit for it. fox leads with cutting off funding for terrorism as if this was a new idea. every administration had done it including the obama administration, but it was framed as if it was a new idea. he scores with the base with that, but i think in general, on the way over here to the studio i got a call from an arab north african friend. he says, what a joke after listening to his speech as if it was like a theater they're

watching. we've seen this movie again. unfortunately, that's the way it comes up to the public and the region. >> something thas ptty interesting is we're learning about the arms sale that the u.s. signed with saudi arabia. we're also learning details of saudi arabia and the united arab emirates combined giving $100 million to a charity started by ivanka trump, the woman's entrepreneurs fund aimed at helping women in the middle east. this is also something trump went after clinton about, saying here's a woman that takes all this money from these countries and then says she loves women. this is what he told fox news and hannity. they want to throw them off buildings, they actually throw gays off buildings and she takes money. i'm calling for her to give back all the money she's taken from these countries. now ivanka trump, after her husband negotiates this $1.6 billion for arms is giving her

husband $100,000 for charity? >> this is something diplomats have learned and know and are aware of, which is the gulf states, which are largely kingdoms and emirates, are willing to throw lots and lots of money at problems to put a veneer of problem solving on it. we've been dealing with this challenge of illicit terrorist financing since 9/11 and that's been under the bush and obama administration. suddenly putting a group together to combine resources for women, for terrorist finaing that were there sharing money is not goingo be answering the problem. this is not going to be throwing more money at the problem solutions. particularly as this is all happening in a country where women aren't even allowed to drive, women are barely allowed to vote and they still have to have a male member of their family as a guardian. with that said, that is part of why the muslim world is reacting so strongly to this speech, because the muslim world is far more diverse than just arabs. the largest population of muslims in the world is in india

and indonesia. and those are not the kinds of people in terms of appearance that you saw in the room with president trump today. they also are having their own challenge with fighting saudi strains of islam in the saudi extremism. so saying that because we have a strong relationship with saudi arabia that we're fighting iran is not necessarily supporting the more moderate and progressive strains of islam in the rest of the world that are seeking and looking for u.s. support. >> thank you very much for joining me today, i really appreciate it. still ahead for you, how the president's plea to the muslims on the international stage is teaming up with harsh rhetoric. >> and we have to look at the muslims and we have to do something. we cannot stand by and be the stupid people while our country is destroyed. i think islam hates us. ist allef

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drive out the extremists. drive them out. drive them out of your places of worship. drive them out of your communities. drive them out of your holy land, and drive them out of this earth. >> that's one of the stronger moments there from president trump's message to muslim leaders during that longer speech happening this morning am riyadh. his administration is pushing back on any criticism that he didn't address human rights abuses, so here's what secretary of state rex tillerson said in an interview shortly after excerpts of that speech were released prior to trump delivering it. >> there are efforts underway to, i think, improve the rights

of women, the participation of women in society throughout the region. but, you know, the primary reason we're here today is to confront this threat of terrorism. if we do not defeat daish, if we do not defeat them, there is no hope for the region. >> ranking member of the oversight government reform committee giving his takeaway of the briefing with attorney general rod rosenstein. >> my impression when i walked out of the briefing was that this thing runs deep. in other words, i think there may be quite a few people that may have some problems with the lawith regard to this whole incident. >> also new today, senator general feinstein who now believes the investigation includes the question of

cover-up. >> i know what the president told me when he called to say that he was firing him, and that turned out not to be the reason. so i think there is one thing about this president, and i would really like to say it meaning well, and that is, stop the tweeting. think about what you say, because you're reflecting in a big pool. >> senator john mccain had this reaction when asked about the "new york times" report on president trump reportedly calling james comey a nut job during his oval office meeting with russian officials. >> i'm almost speechless because i don't know how -- why someone would say something like that. but i know this. mr. lavrov is the stooge of a thug and a murderer. he had no business in the oval office. if there is a president to putin engagement and meeting, i think that under the right circumstances,

that might be okay, but not this stooge lavrov who is nothing but a propagandist. >> 63% do not approve of trump's hand lynx of the fbi investigation of russian meddling. 37% do approve. i wanto bring out two of my panel. i want to start with both your reactions to the speech today. paul, let me begin with you. >> it was an interesting speech, and i thought that one of the things that is a real pivot point here is where mr. trump says we're not going to be lecturing you. it is a real change to a real politic where he says, we don't really care about your human rights, at least we're not going to make that the emphasis. the emphasis is what can we do on terrorism? obviously if he was speaking in cuba that would be a very different answer where we're saying human rights is the top priority in cuba. but it's a very different change in foreign policy. we are dealing with people who are dictators and have terrible

human rights that we were not dealing with on a previous administration because this administration believes that there are more important issues that we can address together, and that's where they're putting their emphasis. >> do you agree the lingo was, you know, we're not here to lecture you but the overall refrain was drive them out in reference to terrorists? >> yes, i think that's right, and i think that's an interesting point. i think we're not here to lecture comes across to some people as a relinquishment of american moral leadership when these kinds of human rights. it was interesting to me because obviously president trump has been very well received in saudi arabia, but saudi arabia actually has a long record of incubat i incubati incubating an austere and conservative brand of islamism. and there is this issue where president trump is trying to

portray the battle of terrorism not one against islam, but that comes against a backdrop where he's made famous remarks in his campaign, the idea that there should be a total and complete shutdown has now been removed from his website, but you can't remove it from people's memories just like you can't take a web page down. >> no, and the tweets live on and on and on, and those are also coming back to haunt him because of the contrast compared to things he has said compared to other political leaders, whether it's hillary clinton or former president obama. but as we think about the headlines that they face when they come back from this nine-day trip, the controversies that erupted just as air force one was taking off, do you think that this speech will blunt any of that, paul? let me ask you. >> i don't think so. i believe mr. comey is scheduled to testify in the next couple weeks in the senate. there is already demands from republican members of congress for the white house and justice department to turn over

documents about exactly what president trump said to mr. comey as he was being fired from his position as director of the fbi. that investigation and those early steps indicate that it's going to linger for months in the headlines here in the united states. this trip may be a good trip for president trump and linger in the headlines for several days, but when he gets back, it is this russia investigation that's still going to consume washington. >> and we know while that goes on, and you point out comey will be testifying, scheduling that for after memorial day. but now we have this new information about general mcmaster won't say if trump brought up meddling in that meeting in the oval office when the president met with sergey kislyak and lavrov the day after he fired comey, and then said he was really concerned about leaks beus they undermine what this administration is trying to do, the security of the american people.

but it was leaking from the president to those russian officials that then sent tom ballit, i believe his name is, to have to scramble to the cia to let them know what the president had done. which is it, is warren mcmaster protecting the president or protecting the people from the president himself? >> there is all sorts of information given there that should not be given to an adversary of the united states. you just played senator mccain's vigorous reaction to that. so i think the administration can say a lot of wishes about leaks and why that shouldn't happen, and yes, there may be an abstract point to be made there. but it is set in contrast with the seriousness of the gravity of the things that president trump is widely reported to have

told the russian ambassador to the united states, someone who was already at the center of the michael flynn controversy. so i think for all those reasons, the administration's protestations will be viewed rather skeptically. >> things keep popping up like where's waldo. we have to keep looking over our shoulders to see where he is. thank you for being here. chelsea manning, a long week ahead for the wikileaks whistle blower. we can't stay here!

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york times" report saying the president called comey a nutob and i faced great pressure because of russia. that's taken off. >> i don't know exactly what the president said, and the notes we have i don't think are apparently a direct transcript. but the gist of the conversation was the president feels as if he's hamstrung in his ability to work with russia to find areas of cooperation because this has been so much in the news. >> joining me now is washington correspondent for the "new york times," nbc contributor. also the author of "power wars, the relentless rise of presidential authority and secrecy." charlie, good to have you with me and also a good thing that vladimir putin offered to provide a transcript of that meeting so we can exactly have the wording of what took place since h.r. mcmaster says we don't have exact lingo. but two different takes from that exchange, and one is that

the president was revealing classified information, one that we got from our allies in israel and also the information about comey and the idea that the pressure of a russian probe will be taken off with his termination. >> you know, i would add a third thing to that remarkable may 10 meeting. you were joking a week ago, we could get the transcript from the russians, maybe. remember, that was a meeting where american reporters and pool photographers are not allowed into the room, and yet russian state media were allowed to bring their equipment into the oval office, and they're the ones distributing these photographs of our president smiling and shaking hands with these two russian officials. and then add to that, a y point out, the "washington post" rst reported that president trump blurted out some very sensitive information that had come apparently from, my colleagues say, from israel that could have jeopardized a very

important source they have in the islamic state, and then a few days later my colleagues report he also, as you say, disparaged the just fired fbi director fired the day before and again seems to have put that in the context of the russia investigation. i think an earlier guest of yours pointed out there's just nothing good about that meeting for this white house, and the more we learn about it, the more remarkable it becomes. >> also for minister lavrov was on the readout of who was going to be there, what we knew presswise, sergey kislyak was not on that document and showed n up in those and

it seems like a million years ago now, but what led to the firing of michael flynn which was the revelation that he had been having conversations with the russian ambassador, the very same person, and there was this great cry about the fact that the russian ambassador was under

surveillance or that there was transcripts of them. everyone knows the russian ambassador would be under surveillance here and the russians would already know what was said to the ambassador, it was just the american people that were finding out about that. it's amazing how this keeps coming up sort of like a bad penny and you wonder what the next step will be. >> that was flynn, the conversations taking place about russian sanctions, that the obama administration had placed on russia because of interference in our election and flynn is sharing kislyak that the trump administration will be more friendly and be lifting those sanctions. but with h.r. mcmaster trying to, you know, placate some of these questions by making it not such a big deal and then trying to turn the tables on the fact that it's all about the leakers, it's much more severe than that, because the nsa and the cia needed to be alerted about the classified information that was passed on. the information that was classified about israel.

but now we need to know more about why donald trump would feel emboldened to joke about jim comey being fired, that he was a nut job, and that is all going to play out pretty publicly coming up after comey testifies beyond memorial day. >> you know, one of the interesting aspects of these latest revelations is that the white house is not denying them at all. it's saying, yes, in fact, these things were said. in contrast to some of the earlier moments in which the white house put out these various lies about what had happened and why, and then the president himself contradicts his team and we find out, oh, it wasn't because of this, it was because of that, or that was never said, yes, it was said. here they're saying, yeah, that's basically what happened. i saw some interesting analysis of that from neil catchow, acting attorney general in the united states under the obama administration who in the clinton administration wrote the regulations for the special

counsel prosecutor we now have with bob mueller looking into the whole russia affair. his analysis was, it looks like this white house by embracing this narrative that he was saying the russian investigation led by comey was creating problems for him with the russian government might be looking toward some kind of a defense against the notion that his firing of comey was obstruction of justice. maybe that he was trying to cover up some kind of wrongdoing on his part, and that maybe it was all about his exercise of his foreign affairs powers and his need to achieve detante with russia and move this country closer to russia, and that is a totally legitimate reason to have fired the fbi director and to try to sort of wind down that investigation. so we'll see what their strategy emerges as in the coming days and weeks, especially after the president returns from this trip. >> charlie savage, great to have you on. thank you.

>> thank you. so will trump's base be happy with the tone that we saw today in saudi arabia with the muslim world on terror? more straight ahead. card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox.

it's just the beginning for robert mueller's investigation into collusion, the potential of it. we'll have a look how one senator's advice for the president will really work. next hour on "pulse of america," whether race has played a role in the sexual assault claims against bill cosby.

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driver them out of your holy land and drive them out of this earth. >> president trump today making the case to muslim leaders to share the burden in the fight against terrorism. i want bring in now howard dean, former governor of vermont and former nbc contributor. also with us former spokesperson

for ted cruz. let me begin with you. we're witnessing the president on the road, and these are the states of trump. today was a toned-down, conciliatory version of the president. do you think the base back home will be happy with that speech? >> i think the base of the republican party will continue to stick with president trump, especially on this question, because his speech really was extremely well done. the speech was well informed, he was very, very articulate, clear, bold, especially when it came to singling out iran and the destruct ty role that country plays in the region, and then also challenging these arab countries to step up further with the united states as a partner but not telling them exactly what to do or micromanaging their own countries. so i think it was very strong and the base will support him. >> howard, how do you think -- is this a witness of h.r. mcmaster winning out about the language of radical islamic terrorism not being used and a

higher minded presidential speech? >> well, by trump's own standard, his appearance with saudi arabia was a failure because he bowed to the king and melania didn't wear a head scarf. that's by trump standards. unfortunately, trump doesn't apply his own standards to his behavior. i think ron is right, his base will be fineecause his base would be fine if he went out and shot people on fifth avenue. for the rest of us, foreign trips are always good for a president. they're almost always good for a president unless you faint or throw up, which he hasn't done yet. but then he's got james comey to deal with when he gets home, and i think the foreign stuff is all going to be forgotten. >> fainting, throwing up or getting a shoe thrown at your head. those three are not good. we'll have many headlines that trump and his team will face getting home based on the russia

investigation. a lot of people were making the rounds today on the sunday talk shows, and senator john mccain was asked specifically about that investigation and the appointment this week of robert mueller with some advice for the president. take a listen. >> we're now -- with the appointment of mr. mueller, we're now at the stage of a scandal. now the question is, how is it handled? is it handled the way watergate was, where drip, drip, drip, every day more and more, or do we handle it like ronald reagan handled the iran contra scandal? he fired people, he went on national television and said, we made mistakes, we did wrong and we're not going to do it again and the american people let him move forward. >> so ron, do you think the president can move out of his own way on this and let it play out and the facts lead us where th may? >> well, certainly at anyone's ability to predict donald trump,

anyone who claims to be able to predict the president's actions doesn't have good credibility. he's defied expectations at every step along the way and won the presidential nomination and won the presidency. that being said, i do think the appointment of the special counsel in this case is a very good development. whenever you're in a mode like this, you want to get it behind you as quickly as possible, and someone like robert mueller being appointed who has a tremendous amount of respect in washington, d.c. is going to help move that forward. that's a positive thing. i think the congressional investigation should move forward as quickly as possie and get to the bottom of everything involved here so the president can move on and republicans can move on to implementing the agenda that we promised the american people: tax reform, repealing and replacing obamacare, securing the southern border. for every week this issue dominates the headlines, it's another week that the case is not being made publicly for these very important reforms. congress is not going to move forward to the goal line here on

these issues unless the power of the presidency is harnessed and mobilize the american people to pressure members of congress and senators and the like to move forward on this agenda. i'm in favor of to its conclusi quickly as possible. >> governor, i know ron said that predicting trump's actions are, you know, a big mistake. but tony schwartz who wrote "the art of the deal said early on i recognized that trump's sense of self-worth is forever at risk. he constructs a self-if iing story that doesn't depend on facts and deflects the blame to others. do you think he can get out of the way of the russian investigation as ron is saying to try to take on agenda items? >> no. you know, donald trump is not ronald reagan. ronald reagan was a confident, really quite a leader. whether you agreed with him or not. i think most people believe that he was a good president.

and no, i think the weaknesses that tony schwartz talks about are exactly right. trump is 77 some odd years old he's not going to change after all this time. unfortunately for him, i actually agree with ron win, i'm shocked, twice in one program. but i think the -- >> we call that progress, howard. >> well, i'm waiting for you to agree with me on health care. although it may be a long wait. >> we don't have enough time for that on the show. >> we don't have enough time -- >> don't hold your breath. >> but howard, you have the last word. >> the bottom line -- i'm sorry, which one of us gets the last word? >> howard dean. howard. >> okay. i think the bottom line is ron is correct about the special prosecutor because this gets it out of the realm of innuendo. there will be a lot of leaks though. and trump is not likely to react well to those. i think mueller is a risk for trump. it is true that this is a -- it's possible to get this off the front page. but it's also more likely that more leaks happen, more bad

stuff comes up and then trump -- i mean, that mueller actually finds something with credibility that theemocrats don't have because they're in the opposition. >> gentlemen, we'll leave it right there. thank you for your time. ron, safe travels back from jurisdiction legal. govern dean, thank you. the release of chelsea manning this week, her case highlighting how the lgbtq community is treated behind bars. way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia ♪

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all right. so more now on the legal battle looming over chelsea manning after she was freed from prison. you'll recall manning is the army private who leaked a trove of military records in 2012. manning released new pictures of herself shortly after being freed. joining me is mary emily o'hara of nbc digital news. i know you have written about manning and this case. where does it stand now? >> so chelsea is appealing the conviction which means that currently she's on active duty status in the military which is fascinating. you know, you get out of a military prison and you're still actively a soldier.

but until she appeals she won't be able to be discharged so she'll fight the appeal or waive it and no one is sure. >> one thing that's been fascinating on nbc news.com. kind of the background on the challenges of the lgbtq community behind bars. what has been revealed? >> well, lgbt people are three times as likely to go to prison or jail than the regular population which is shocking. 33% of women in prison for example are lesbian or bisexual and only 3% of women in the population are lesbian or bisexual. there's something going on there, we haven't figured out why people are more likely to be incarcerated but they are. >> when we think of what's being done to protect the inmates that falls into the plenty communities, is there anything out of manning's case that's helped reveal injustice behind bars? >> well, i think manning is the world's most high profile transgendered woman in prison

and she highlights something they go through all the time. access to hormones. inability to -- you know, being separated out from the population. solitary confinement. those things are done sometimes because of the prison rape initiative -- which is meant to make sure that everyone is safe from sexual assault and harassment. but what ends up happening so often, people are put in solitary confinement or administrative housing restriction because of their safety and they're punished. >> people can follow manning on twitter. you were showing me the latest tweet she's playing a video game. >> yeah. >> we never heard of it. >> she loves pizza and video games. that's all she wanted to do in prison. >> thanks a lot. thank you at home. i'm thomas roberts. coming up next on "pulse of

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