washington. and the united kingdom fears the worst may not be over after the manchester terror attack. up to 5,000 soldiers deploy on a the streets. who may have been working with the bomber is coming up in a live report from the ground there. good morning, everyone. i'm ali velshi in our headquarters in new york. president trump is in brussels, which he once called a, quote, hell hole. he arrived ahead of tomorrow's nato summit with other leaders. this comes two months after he said he thinks nato is, quote, no longer obsolete. the president is also going to be meeting with european union officials after supporting britain's exit from the eu. then he heads to -- he's headed to brussels from rome after his historic meeting with pope francis at the vatican earlier this morning. the two leaders holding very different views on a variety of issues. the meeting also follows a series of public clashes that

made headlines worldwide. we got team coverage of the president's trump. we begin with nbc's kelly o'donnell, who is in brussels. the president arrived with baggage of the remarks he made about the european union, nato and the city of brussels itself. >> that's right. candidate trump, who always seems to leave some landmines for president trump to tidy up when meeting with some of these world leaders. on air force one, secretary of state rex tillerson talked to the reporters who were traveling with the president. i came in separately in advance. he talked about some of the ambitions of this meeting for president trump. it is high stakes. it is the first time that this convention of 28 nations is coming together, noting a new american president. they're also going to be unveiling a new nato headquarters. secretary tillerson said expect

donald trump to be tough on member nations that are not reaching that full percentage of contribution of defense. 2% of their gdp. he says the u.s. is at 4%. only five nations are at the 2% they agreed on. that has been a theme we've heard from president trump. secretary tillerson says expect him to hammer on that. he will also try to get the full bodies to be part of an isis kind of coordinated effort. while nato has been fighting terrorism, they have not signed on to a specific isis coalition that the united states is hoping they will do. secretary tillerson says it's ultimately up to the secretary general of the organization, if they want to take it to that level. and this will be a chance for president trump to meet france's new president, macron. the first time they'll have a chance to see each other. of course, macron defeated someone who was at least in the big, broad strokes of political dialogue and rhetoric more like trump. so in a way, france was sending a message, moving away from the

trump style of politipolitics. so this is a lot for the president to take on. these nato meetings are historically very dense on policy, very detail oriented, and the president will have a chance to build some relationships and to sort of make his point known. he does it unabashedly. his criticism of nato in the past. he says he's turned the page and sees that it is an organization that is vital in the world, but he wants it to keep changing and evolving with the threat. manchester puts that into kind of a new light when we had expected russia and ukraine to be a big part of the conversation. we also now expect isis and threats like what we saw play out in manchester to be a big topic here. ali? >> kelly, good to talk to you. kelly o'donnell in brussels. let's go to president trump's historic meeting with pope francis earlier today. the president already changing his twitter background. check this out. to a picture of him and the pope. we're joined now from vatican

city. claudio, the president and the pontiff hold different views from issues like immigration, climate change to arms sales. did they discuss any of those issues? >> well, the vatican issued a statement right after the meeting, and they said they talked about three particular issues. one was health care. the other was immigration. the other was the problem of the persecution of christians in the middle east. they didn't say what exactly was said during that meeting, but you can guess that pope francis, of course, let's talk about health care. pope francis may have raised the concern over how the new health care bill may affect the most vulnerable families and most vulnerable americans who may be left without health care. because he is seen as a champion of the poor and the downtrodden. on immigration, well, they have different views on that, too. the pope is a champion of migrants. he asked the world leaders to welcome migrants any time they can and anywhere they can. even set an example a couple

years ago. he flew to a greek island and flew back in to meet migrants. he took seven families of migrants with syria from him and relocated them in and around the vatican. of course, the persecution of christians in the middle east is a topic on which the fight against the persecution of christians in the middle east is a topic they agree upon. what was not discussed was climate change. another issue they really differ in views. the pope is a staunch supporter of the view by the wide spread scientific community that think that climate change is, of course, caused by human activity, while trump doesn't. but among the gifts that the pope gave to trump was a book that he wrote on the protection of the environment. you can see that, ali, as some kind of veiled message to the president. >> so in the past, the messages between these two men have not been all that veiled. it's been contentious. in the campaign last year, the pope said about then-candidate trump's border wall with mexico, he said, quote, a person who

thinks about building walls, whenever they may be, and not building bridges, is not a christian. this is what donald trump said in response. >> the pope is being told that donald trump is not a nice person, okay? donald trump is a very nice person. for a religious leader to question a person's faith is disgraceful. no leader, especially a religious leader, should have the right to question another man's religion or faith. >> interesting, claudio. when i watched the two of them together, there was no sign of the personal animosity or tension between them. >> definitely looks like they bridged their differences, doesn't it? they met and they were all smiles. it was a warm greeting. the president even said, the first thing he told the pope was, it is a real honor to meet you. but there were some even funny incident there is. funny moments. when melania was introduced to the pope, and the pope clearly wanted to greet her with some

kind of small knowledge, trivia over his knowledge of slovenia cuisine and traditions, he told her, what do you feed him? a slovenian delicacy, a cake. melania clearly didn't understand what he was saying and said, yes, pizza. it was a lost in translation moment there. serious moments but also funny moments during this meeting, ali. >> claudio, thank you for joining us. i always appreciate talking to you. joining us now is a senior advisor for the catholic. and senior vice president at the theological seminary here in new york. welcome to you both. thank you for being here. what were catholics hoping would come out of this meeting or even did the church have a particular aim in this meeting with president trump? >> well, i think catholics can

feel very encouraged after today's meeting. the vatican statement said that the meeting was very cordial. you can see from the body language, if you're watching the footage, that the meeting was indeed very cordial. and the vatican statement said that they focused on areas of agreement, on areas like the sanctity of human life, the protection of religious liberty, and on the protection of persecuted christian communities. >> reverend, i want to ask you, the president tweeted after his meeting -- by the way, he's been pretty -- hasn't been tweeting a whole lot during this trip -- but tweeted, honor of a lifetime to meet his holiness pope francis. i leave the vatican more determined than ever to pursue peace in our world. do you think there was any other movement? claudio talked about the encyclical he was given about climate change. was this being nice to each other meeting or one that got is somewhere on policy?

>> i'd love for president trump to have gotten down on his knees and repented and embraced what pope francis clearly has made his central point, which is the service of the poor. unfortunately, our president has a budget that was just released yesterday that is the antithesis of that. while i think they want to be cordial, and i think, certainly, president trump has a lot to gain by them being cordial, i think what i would love is for president trump to actually read the encyclical that pope francis gave him and understand climate change and the importance of the poor. all of these things that pope francis has been emphasizing, which are not represented in the budget that trump has just offered, which cuts the environmental protection agency, cuts aid to the poor, cuts aid to the elderly and aides the military and military solutions, which pope francis has been very strong against. >> there's more distance between them than one would think, given the pictures we've been looking

at. maureen, exit polling from the election showed president trump won the catholic vote. about 52% to 45% for hillary clinton. white catholics voting 60% for trump versus 37% for hillary clinton. almost reverse of hispanic catholics, which we can see there. catholics find themselves in a quandary, sticking the pope with religious obligations or sticking to donald trump with their political desires. how do you bring those together? >> just going back to the previous statement, i would take issue with that very overly political reading of the vatican statement. the vatican statement talked about areas of cooperation, in health care and education and care of immigrants. the catholic church wants to partner with government in these areas. yet in the united states, we face a situation where catholic hospitals are being sued just because they're catholic.

because they don't do abortions. catholic schools -- >> that's a distinction that is important. i think it is important. they're not being sued because they're catholic. they're being sued because of abortions. >> because they hold to cathogc life. >> but it is not because they're catholic. that is a political statement you're making there. >> a catholic hospital, one in five beds in the united states is in a catholic hospital. a catholic hospital is going to adhere to catholic ethical principles and they're in the business of saving lives, not taking lives. so the first area of agreement that the vatican statement referred to was on that sanctity of life and on education and other issues. just again on health care, we have a situation where nuns like the little sisters of the poor who take care of the elderly poor should be partnering with the government to take care of elderly poor people.

yet, they've been threatened with heavy government fines. i think these are the types of reasons that the vatican statement after the meeting today said that the pope and the president focused on issues of c con conscience, religious liberty and the issue of christian genocide. vice president pence just last week gave a very strong speech on the persecution of christians, labeling it genocide. we know that president trump has talked about the beheadings, the church bombings. pope francis just traveled to egypt in the wake of those palm sunday church bombings, right in the middle of mass, and gave a very strong speech to the university, the central teaching authority of sunni islam -- >> i'm going to ask the reverend to get in here so we don't run out of his time. reverend? >> i think she's absolutely right. they do have a lot in common, as far as religious liberty issues.

however, the health care budget that was passed under trump actually will lead in the death of thousands of americans. we really have to get to the basis of this. on whose part do you stand? trump stands on the rich and the powerful. pope francis stands with the poor and the marginalized. i would hope americans would see that pope francis is holding up a moral vision we can all get behind, and that is very important. by the way, the fact that latino catholics voted overwhelmingly against donald trump is not insignificant. that's the growing edge of the catholic church. also, they are hearing this attack on them, as far as immigration very personally. let's not forget where pope francis is from. argentina. he is a latino himself. latino catholic community is very much with pope francis on this. >> right. >> the white catholic community seems to be aligning with president trump. >> i just want to let the viewers know, we apologize, the graphic we put up is wrong.

latino catholics voted against donald trump, not in favor of, as the graphic indicated. reverend, thank you. maureen ferguson, thank you for being with us. let's move to washington and the search for a new fbi director. it appears former democratic vice presidential nominee joe lieberman may no longer be at the top of the list. nbc's peter alexander joins me now. what have you learned on this? >> good day to you. there have been reports today suggesting that lieberman is no longer in the mix for fbi director. the white house pushing back on that today. despite the president a matter of days ago saying he was very close to a decision, it appears they are broadening their search right now. that according to a senior administration official. this official telling me that leieberman remains in the mix more broadly going forward. he seems an unlikely pick, given other news we've learned. nbc news confirming president trump is expected to hire his long-time manhattan attorney.

for his counsel for the russia investigation. it is notable. his firm is the firm where lieberman has worked for most of the last four years. it would at least optically provide what would appear to be a conflict of interest here. mark has represented trump for at least 15 years in a variety of cases. he was the one when president trump came under fire from an article from the "new york times" about inappropriate relationships with women, acc e accusing liable and requesting a retraction. no retraction was taken. the senate intelligence committee issuing two new subpoenas for former national security adviser michael flynn's business records, threatening to hold him in contempt of congress if he refuses to turn over the documents. this comes as former cia director john brennan publicly

acknowledged for the first time yesterday his concerns that trump campaign associates were coordinating with russian operatives. >> by the time i left office on january 20th, i had unresolved questions in my mind as to whether or not the russians had been successful in getting u.s. persons involved in the campaign or not to work on their behalf, again, either in a witting or unwitting fashion. >> joining me now is the "washington post"'s adam who has been helping break major stories about this investigation. particularly this part of it. good to see you. we have heard a lot from current and former intelligent chiefs in front of various committees. yesterday, they were talking to them. brennan told the house committee about what he knew. the house intelligence committee. listen to this with me. >> i encountered and am aware of information and intelligence that revealed contacts and inter actions between russian

officials and u.s. persons involved in the trump campaign. >> all right. that may be, adam, as explicit as we've heard from someone who would actually know. you've been reporting this sort of thing through your sources but a lot of people were surprised it's finally come out, that not only did brennan and the cia know this, but they knew it well before the election. >> right. basically what brennan is doing is basically saying for the first time publicly, from his mouth, you know, what he had been saying privately to senior members of congress and to administration officials when he was the cia director, which is that basically, they were seeing these contacts. when he says that, what he, in part, means, is that the united states government, the national security agency, the fbi, the cia, they were spying on the russians. as they were spying on the russians, they saw the russians either directly communicating with members of trump's team or after such communications with

members of the trump team, the russians would discuss among themselves those meetings and those contacts. and what was happening was u.s. spy agencies were picking up on that. >> but brennan stopped short of calling it collusion. he called it contact. what's the implication there, that some of it might have been inadvertent on the part of the trump campaign, or they don't have the evidence to prove there was collusion? >> well, i think to get at the issue of collusion, you really need to understand, obviously, the intent of everybody involved and what the point was. what were the russians seeking by having those contacts? what were the trump administration -- or for that matter, trump campaign people seeking by having those contacts? why were they not having similar contacts with our closest allies, the british, the french, the canadians? why was there a disproportionate number of engagements with the russians and not with others? these are the sorts of things that i think when brennan says he leaves office and is left

with these unanswered questions, you know, he doesn't have full visibility at that point into what the fbi is trying to uncover at that point. >> you reported monday night that president trump appealed to the director of national intelligence daniel coates and admiral michael rogers, urging them to publicly deny the exi existence of any evidence of collusion during the 2016 election. coats responded yesterday to it in front of the senate armed services committee. let's listen to what he said. >> i have always believed that given the nature of my position and the information which we share, it's not roeappropriate me to comment publicly on any of that. so on this topic, as well as other topics, i don't feel it is appropriate to characterize discussions and conversations with the president. >> those hoping he would give an answer as fulsome as that, of brennan, weren't going to get

it. dan coates is currently in office. what do you make of the comments? >> it is interesting. obviously, as we said in the story, coates, along with mike rogers, admiral mike rogers, the head of the nsa, national security agency, they both rebuffed the president's requests. they deemed it to be inappropriate for them to comment on an ongoing fbi investigation. so, you know, what you can see, it is interesting, from coates, obviously, he is thinking about the integrity of his department, his office, you know, and himself. he did not want, you know, his intelligence agency, his -- the people that work for him to see him get, you know, dragged into basically a political dispute that was raging at the time, by having him weigh in opposite the fbi director. clearly, he was uncomfortable with that. >> adam, good to talk to you.

thank you for joining us and thank you for your great reporting. senior democrats are taking on the trump administration, accusing the white house of intentionally withholding information from them. coming up next, i'll speak with democratic senator bob casey about these accusations and the ongoing investigation into trump's alleged ties to russia. we'll. we'll be life in manchester. police made more arrests today linked to the deadly bombing on the ariana grande concert monday. >> it is clear this is a network we're investigating. it continues at a pace, this expentensive investigation is gg on, activity taking place across greater manchester as we speak. . ♪ anyone can dream.

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senate democrats are accusing the white house of withholding information from them on purposen o issues like the russia investigation, the president's business ties, even environmental policies. in a letter sent to the white house today and obtained by nbc news, the senators say they are concerned the trump administration is instructing federal agencies to, quote, refuse requests for information from democratic members of congress. joining me now is democratic senator bob casey of pennsylvania. he's signed on to that letter. he's a member of the finance committee, the health, education, labor and pensions committee and the national security working group. senator, good to have you on the show again. >> good to be with you. >> what are you planning tolett? if the allegations are true, it

is a very, very serious matter. >> yeah, ali, this is about basic oversight. when you send a letter to any administration, no matter what party you are and no matter what party the administration is, they have to answer it. doesn't mean they have to answer it within a couple of days or even ten days, but we would expect that at least within a number of weeks, that letters we send about, for example, the coal miners health and pension issue, which we finally made some progress on without any health from the administration, by the way. letters on china, letters on trade, a whole range of letters that involve either important matters to the american people and, in many cases, matters that are being considered within the committee on which it serves. so if this allegation is true, that they've been instructed not to answer, that undermines our system badly. >> what's your sense of the legal authority here? i guess you have the right to ask for anything you want as

senators. >> correct. >> does the white house have legal standing to tell people not to give you answers? >> well, if they assert a reason why they can't disclose information, then that becomes a dispute. but you can't just ignore requests for information from members of congress. i do think part of the problem here, even if there was not a direct order or a policy to obstruct the transmission of this information, and i think that's more likely that's the case than not. but even if that wasn't the case, there is a basic problem with this administration. they don't have people hired to run, to operate the basic functions of many departments, including the state department, at a time when we needy ploem dy and engagement around the world. >> you're giving them the benefit of the doubt, they might be overwhelmed with stuff. do you have a plan b? >> i don't think there is a plan b. we have to keep pressuring the

administration. i think the american people understand this and would demand that this information be turned over within a reasonable period of time. >> senator, i want to ask you about the russia investigation. benjamin wittes, a friend of director comey, said comey has a story to tell and if he were president trump, he'd be scared. >> i thought it was interesting and very telling that he declined an opportunity to tell his story in private. he clearly wants to do it in a public setting. i interpret -- >> he was asked to testify in private and he said no. it'll be public. >> i think that is a reflection of the fact that this is a guy with a story to tell. i think if i were donald trump, that would scare me a lot. >> all right. vague because we don't know what that story is. what are you hoping to hear from jim comey, who is expected to testify next week? >> well, ali, certainly, when the president of the united

states makes statements or assertions that he did regarding the investigation, regarding now former director comey, and the only one who can provide information about those charges is director comey, i think we need to hear from him for sure. so i think some of these questions are just hanging out there because the president, by his own -- on his own, has raised these questions or made these allegations. and i just -- it's almost stunning that on a continual pa basis, we're hearing reporting about the president taking steps to interfere with an investigation or undermining or questioning an investigation. unfortunately, the bar is not where it should be. the question here is not whether the president or his administration obstructed justice. that's a question that will ultimately have to be answered. but the very contact that he has made with individuals within the

administration to slow down or impede the investigation is 100% inappropriate. one single phone call in that direction is totally inappropriate by the president, by a member of congress, by any public official. it's almost hard to keep up with the number of allegations that relate to actions taken by him or by his administration that are involved in the investigation. >> senator, always good to talk to you. thank you for being with us. >> thanks, ali. >> senator bob casey of pennsylvania. we're going to be speaking live to congressman adam schiff later about new developments related to the topics we're discussing, the investigation and house intelligence committee. new raids are underway right now as great bit tan is on its highest alert level after the deadly attack in manchester. officials say an attack could be immine imminent. plus, new details about the suspected suicide bomber, his ties to terror groups and this morning's arrests. ♪

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right now, four people are detained in connection with the deadly terror attack outside the ariana grande concert venue in manchester on monday. this morning, uk police are saying the suspected suicide bomber was part of a network and a u.s. intelligence official

tells nbc news the bomber received training abroad. all of this as the uk's terror alert is now at its highest level, suggesting another attack may be imminent. nbc's kelly cobiella is live for us in manchester. what are you hearing about the new searches that are underway? >> well, ali, we're actually outside the arena. the latest search is happening a mile from here. also in central manchester, police gained entry to this apartment building through a controlled explosion. less of a raid at this point. they're conducting a search there now. the police chief isn't talking about details, about what they're looking for, only saying that, look, this is part of extensive searches happening across manchester. he also said that it is very clear, his words, that this is a network they're dealing with, not a lone wolf but a network, ali. >> what do we know about the other suspects?

obviously, this concept of a network is aided by the fact that there are other people who have been arrested. what do we know about them? >> sure. well, we're not hearing much about those four people who have been detained. we know that they were all arrested sort of in the same area, all arrested in the southern part of the city, close to where the suspect's family lived. we are learning quite a bit though about that suspect. 22 years old, salman abedi is his name. he is enrolled at the university here in manchester but hadn't been to class over the past several months. his family is libyan. his parents moved here. he was born here. he had traveled back to libya over the past 12 months or so. he had ties to al qaeda according to nbc news sources. the french interior minister today is saying that he also had ties to isis. he had also traveled to syria. yet another piece of this puzzle now coming together. in fact, ali, his own parents

reportedly had contacted british intelligence and identified him as someone who was dangerous. >> thanks very much. kelly cobiella for us in manchester. officials here in the united states are increasing security at so-called soft targets around the country after that attack. nbc's stephanie gosk is live in new york city's times square. soft targets, the things that don't have necessarily an entrance or security searches, the kinds of places people gather, like where you are in times square. >> yeah, exactly, ali. the kinds of places that you really can't secure 100%. it's actually just not practical to do so. what we're seeing really not just here in new york city but around the country is what has become a standard reaction to these attacks. even though they might take place in europe, you are seeing law enforcement react here with heightened security. in times square, there's always security, but they've added an extra layer.

people today walking around here be see that layer. it includes counterterrorism forces that are highly trained and highly armed, heavily armed. you also have people in the subways getting their bags checked more often. and on the streets, they have this new kind of bomb sniffing dog you'll see. >> reporter: around the country overnight, spectators poured into sporting events and conc t concerts, while the threat level in the uk has been raised to critical. here in the u.s., police remain vigilant, watching out for trouble. >> every corner, there is somebody. it is good. i like. >> reporter: we have correspondents across the u.s. >> i'm ron mott in chicago, where the weeknd is performing. police stepped up security for this concert, including a tactical unit. bomb sniffing dogs on hand, as well. anyone with a ticket will be hand wanded by a metal detecter, even children. >> you never know what'll happen. you have to put your trust in the authority here. >> i'm steve patterson in los

angeles, where chris brown is performing. behind me, there is a high security profile. police in cars, on foot and with canine units patrolling the area. >> reporter: in cleveland, there was also stepped up security at last night's nba playoffs game between the cavaliers and celtics. despite the heavy police presence, some fans were concerned. >> watch for book bags, i watch for certain things, nervous when i see people doing things with phones. >> reporter: tense moments at the braves game. an equipment malfunction forced the scoreboard to show a fire alarm. sirens blared in the ballpark, leaving fans panicked at first. then fuming. one fan tweeting, you think it's funny to scare your fans? what was that? >> after the game, the team said that that alarm was likely triggered by a fight in one of the ballpark restaurants. ali, it shows you how on edge

people are across the country. >> no kidding. thanks for that great reporting. stephanie gosk. lawmakers from both sides are pushing back on president trump's budget blueprint. the proposed cuts would hit some of the poorest americans and take aim at cancer research and food stamps. a lot of leaders are speaking out, including hillary clinton. >> this budget, along with the relentless attempts to repeal the affordable care act, shows an unimaginable level of cruelty and lack of imagination and disdain for the struggles of millions of americans, including millions of children every single day. i am totally blind.

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abracadabra. the stage is yours. step two: choose la quinta. the only hotel where you can redeem loyalty points for a free night-instantly and win at business. president trump's budget was sent to congress yesterday. it's getting negative reaction from both sides of the aisle. let me break down the numbers for you right now. it's $4.1 trillion budget. remember, this is the early budget proposal. it has to go through congress and the senate. it looks different sometimes by the time it takes effect october 1st. here are the winners. the u.s. military, lot more funding, although senator mccain and senator lindsey graham both think it is not enough funding. border security. this was a big trump promise. law enforcement sees an increase. over ten years, these areas see a $500 billion increase in spending. who are the losers? 66 government departments taking hits in this budget. there is a hit to medicaid

programs, welfare programs, children health insurance p progr programs, other non-defense spending to the tune of $3.3 trillion over ten years. much more cutting than adding to this budget. the goal is to get a balanced budget in ten years, meaning a budget in which the amount of revenue brought in through taxes is greater than or equal to the amount spent. the cut spending, we will see slashed taxes. we haven't seen a proposal. we've seen a one-page outline that says tax reform is coming. obviously, they are attempting to repeal obamacare. the whole goal here is to spur 3% economic growth. this is really, really important because economic growth right now is about 2%. there are different ways to measure it. generally speaking, we're talking about 2%. this budget aims to get to 3% economic growth. that is a 50% increase. that is something that's really hard to do. joining me is a senior fellow at the manhattan institute for policy research. it is a conservative think tank.

he's also the chief economist to senator rob portman of ohio and former director of the senate finance committee on fiscal responsibility and economic growth. brian, thanks for joining me. this is what i want to talk to you about. mulvaney said everything the white house is trying to do is get us to 3% growth. is that realistic? >> 3% growth will be a challenge because when we used to grow at 3%, a lot of it was because the labor force was growing and that's a component of economic growth. with the baby boomers retiring, the labor force isn't growing as much, which means you're more dependent on productivity growth to get to 3%. i'm optimistic that it could be possible if we can truly enact reform, to unleash significant growth, but it is not going to be easy. it'll be a heavy lift. it is not something we should automatically assume. it is going to take a lot of work. >> that's the key. i think you might be right. it is not that it is outside of the realm of possibility. during the campaign, donald trump was talking 4%, 5%, 6%

economic growth. that is outside of the realm of reality. can you build a budget based on a goal rather than an assumption? it is an assumption for 3% growth. to build a budget based on it is tough. >> you need to restructure the government in order to encourage the economy to grow that way. you need significant tax reform that encourages working, saving and investing. you need regulatory reform. you need to encourage exports in order to help the economy. you need to give businesses incentives. you need a health care system that's not going to swallow up all the money companies want to use too hi hiefre. i don't begrudge the administration for aiming high. >> i want to make the distinction between a goal and an aim. i want you and i to listen to

this together. >> we no longer want to measure compassion by the number of programs that we have or the number of people that are on those programs. we want to measure compassion, true compassion, by the number of people we help to get off of those programs. >> so here's the issue, brian. appears a lot of children will be kicked off their health insurance with cuts of $610 billion to medicaid, nearly $6 billion to the children's health insurance program. those two programs cover 39% of america's children. 44% of children with special health care needs. i'm not really understanding the rationale there, in helping children not get health care coverage, for instance. >> i worked on budgets in the senate. i've written budgets for presidential campaigns. i think i know what's happening. it all begins with the president's decision not to touch social security and medicare. that's $1.5 trillion in spending the president is going to let double to $3 trillion in

spending over ten years. you give defense a bump up and can't touch net interests directly. that's 60% of the budget that's not only off the table but it'll nearly double. when you set a target of balancing the budget in ten years, the only thing left to do is to essentially eviscerate the other 40% of the budget. the other 40% consists mainly of obamacare, medicaid, other health care programs, domestic discretionary spending and broad anti-poverty programs. i don't think they went in deciding they wanted to target the programs. when they made the decision to protect the other spending, they backed themselves into that corner. it's the only way to make the numbers add up. >> that makes a lot of sense. brian, thank you for joining me. good conversation. brian is joining me about this conversation. coming up next, breaking news from congressman adam schiff who said this morning his health intelligence committee will join the senate in filing subpoenas against michael flynn. that's coming up after the break.

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to the russia investigation. kasie hunt is live on capitol hill with congressman schiff. >> reporter: thanks very much. and we are here with congressman schiff, ranking member on the house intelligence committee. and i just want to walk through initially can you explain these steps you are taking, what is next for michael flynn from your committee? >> well, we had invited general flynn to testify and asked to appropriate documents. that request was denied. it is our practice that we invite people to provide information voluntarily and then only if necessary we subpoena them. so we are in discussions about issuing the requisite subpoenas now. it is our expectation those should go out we hope shortly. we early on agreed to a modis operandi where the strong presumption is that if people don't cold volunteer areally cooperate, we will subpoena

them. so given what he has said, it will be necessary to subpoena both his person and his businesses. and of course whatever remedies may be necessary if he refuses to comply. as i understand it, the fifth amendment only protects someone from providing sicertain materis but not others. and hopefully general flynn will comply and it won't be necessary to force the issue. but we believe strongly that it's important that questiwe ge whatever information is necessary. >> and i was going to ask you about that because you are a former prosecutor and it seems like the main argument from general flynn's lawyers was that providing documents about this would essentially amount to providing testimony and that is something that they can use to invoke the fifth 5e78amendment. do you buy that? >> as i understand the case law on on this, there may be some provision of documents that is cover covered, but others are not. and if there is an understanding that certain documents are in

existence where the providing of those documents does not have a testimonial character to it, then there is no right to withhold that information. so it is i think not a bright line, but obviously we'll need a to vigorously pursue this. the largest question of course is the question of immunity. and here i think we have to try to get information by every means possible without having to enter taken than entertain that. if we go need to look at that, we will need to talk to bob mueller, find out what equities would be involved so we don't interfere with what the justice department may or may not want to do. and we would want a gdetailed proffer with the grant of immunity. >> so immunity is still on the table. senate side has said there is no way we will offer immunity. you are still open to it.

>> i don't think we're anywhere near being able to entertain that idea. >> so what are the potential options for you? do you see general flynn potentially being be held in contempt of congress if he refuses to comply or his businesses refuse to comply? >> that is a possibility. again, i would hope that we can get cooperation and we may ultimately have to have discussions with his counsel about what is covered by the fifth amendment, what is not. and if there is too broad a disagreement about the legitimacy of any claim of fifth amendment protection, then we'll have to figure out what the appropriate next steps are. >> more broadly, sir, there was obviously quite a bit of drama around your committee's work when the chairman devin nunes was involved. how would you characterize your working relationship now with congressman conway leading the investigation from the republican side? >> well, i think it's far better than it was when we had the whole situation with our chairman and the white house.

so it got us back to bringing in witnesses, having open hearings like we had yesterday. it was the one that had been -- at least part of the bon that had been canceled. so we're back to moving forward. it's not that we don't have different perspectives that we have to work through. there are still issues that we will have to wrestle. but we are moving forward and i think that 1 not only important but essential. >> have you at this point spoken with mr. mueller about the skrirry that he is leading? >> we have not. i made the request that i think it would make sense for our committee to meet jointly with mr. mueller along with the senate because we're really all three going to have to try to coordinate our efforts to the degree that we can. but i would like to see that happen sooner rather than later. >> thank you very much for your time. we really appreciate it.

>> great conversation with adam schiff, former prosecutor himself laying out the legal and legislative framework naeld like to s that he would like to see the house intel committee taking as relates to michael flynn. we'll be following that story very closely. that is it for me. thank you for watching this hour of msnbc live. i'll be back at 3:00 p.m. and right now on andrea mitchell reports, she has a live interview with senator bernie sanders. >> thank you, ali. right now on andrea mitchell report, when in rome. after callinging the pope disgraceful during the campaign, president trump seemed to be converted in his meeting with the pontiff today. >> he is something. he is really great. we had a fantastic meeting and a fantastic tour. it was really beautiful. we're liking italy very much. and it was an hon or to meet with the pope. >> first's first budget is out and critics are calling foul

what they see as a $2 trillion double accounting blunder. even as the budget director defends their choices. >> it's nothing more than a collection of his promises. if he said he wanted to spend more money on something in the campai campaign, we spent more money. >> coming up, exclusive reaction to that and the news that the president may pull out of a paris agreement. and plus manchester united, new clues, new arrests as police in man chester say it is clear they are investigating a terror network while the uk vows to keep calm and carry on.chester are investigating a terror network while the uk vows to keep calm and carry on. >> people will see additional police officers, officers carrying firearms, they will see military personnel. no reason at all to be panicked. no reason to be alarmed. we're doing all that we can to keep londoners and visitors safe.