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>> if he wins, he has been chosen by the montana -- the people of montana. >> we dints hadn't have a cours body slamming when i went to school. i missed that course. >> a candidate charged with assault. it had witnesses watching in disbelief on the eve of montana's special election. also this leaks into alliances. the u.k. cutting off united states over intel leaks related to the ariana grande concert bombing. >> i will be making clear to president trump today that the sources must remain secure. america first. the president's awkward interaction with another leader at the nato meeting in brussels. we'll debrief all of this with our reporters and analysts in just a moment here, but let's start with that breaking news we were just talking about. a federal appeals cou has ruled on the press revised

travel ban. justice correspondent pete williams standing by in our washington newsroom. for folks just joining us at the top of the hour, bring us up to speed if you could, pete, sir. >> this is a ruling on one of the two lower court orders that have blocked enforcement of president trump's revised executive order limited issuing visas from six predominantly muslim countries. this is the first of the appeals courts to rule on those orders that stopped enforcement of the ban. and today the fourth circuit court of appeals based in richmond, virginia said a maryland judge was right in mid-march when he said that the revised executive order couldn't be enforced because the challengers were liked to prevail on their argument that it was based on religious discrimination. now, i'm just looking through the opinion, but it does appear that the court placed a lot of stock in what the challenger said, which is you have to look at what president trump said about this issue when he was

candidate trump in which he initially called for a ban on all muslims. the appeals court says here, the president's statements as a candidate and some of the statements that he made after he was president in signing the executive order and in signing the revised order says, according to the court, these statements taken together provide direct, specific evidence of what motivated both the first and second executive orders, president trump's desire to exclude muslims from the united states. now, remember, what the go government had argued here was, no, no, no, this wasn't a muslim ban. this was looking at countries where the federal government decided it couldn't depend on information it got from those countries when it was doing background checks on people who wanted visas, that the governments were in collapse or they were known supporters of terrorists and you simply couldn't trust what information you got from those governments about judging somebody's suitaby to get a visa.

for that reason the government said you needed a pause in issuing visas while you assessed how good that information was. the challengers had said, no, it's primarily based on religious animus, and the fourth circuit court of appeals appears to have accepted that argument and said the ban on enforcement should continue. the significance of this, craig, means that no matter what the ninth circuit says, and we're waiting for a ruling on what the appeals court says about a hawaii judge who reached a similar conclusion, no matter what happens there, we have one appeals court upholding the nationwide ban. that means it's up to the supreme court, but i can't imagine the supreme court is going to make a decision on that until the fall. >> so for now, pete, bottom line, this is not something that is going to be enforced in the near future. >> correct. the ban on enforcement of the revised executive order remains in place. >> all right. our justice correspondent pete williams with some breaking news here off the top. federal appeals court fourth

circuit upholding the block on president trump's travel ban. it will continue to wind its way through the courts. pete, thanks for that. we'll check in with you a little bit later. let's get back to montana, that special election on this thursday that's become national news. republican candidate greg gianforte charged with misdemeanor assault. here's how that went down. >> the cbo score. because you know you were waiting to make your decision about health care until you saw the bill and it just came out. >> we'll talk to you about that later. >> yeah, but there's not going to be time. i was just curious -- >> speak with shane, please. i'm sick and tired of you guys. the last time you did the same thing. get the hell out of here. >> are you wi are you with the guardian? >> yes. you just body slammed me and

broke my glasses. >> the last guy did the same thing! >> greg gianforte released this statement. he was given a separate interview in a private office. tonight, as greg was giving an interview in a private office, the guardian's ben jacobs entered the office without permission, aggressively shored a recorder in his face. it's unfortunate that this aggressive behavior from a liberal journalist created this scene at our campaign volunteer bbq. fox news correspondent alicia alcuna was there. she saw the fight. she tells a very different story. >> reporter: i myself was standing about two feet from both gianforte and jacobs when this happened. i did see the whole thing when gi gianforte grabbed him by the neck, slipped him to the side, body slammed him and started

punching and yelling at him. ben jacobs sort of scrambled to his knees, grabbed his glasses, and you heard him talk about his glasses being broken. >> garrett haake is there for uus in bozeman, montana. what can we expect? >> no word on that news schedule. they put out a notice on their facebook page about two hours ago saying they would have an update on this case and that hasn't happened yet. last night they told us as a misdemeanor assault case, they may not be saying anything more on it at all. we've all been sort of waiting for that to happen. i've been at a polling place a few blocks from the sheriff's office. and we've heard from a lot of

voters that say if this incident didn't change their mind, it has juiced the whole thing a ltle bit. i talked to one supporter of rob quist who said he wished he could have voted 12 times. another one said he's embarrassed this is a view of montana that the rest of the country is getting because of this incident. but i also talked to supporters of gian fforte who said they're not bothered by this, they still pulled the knob for him, and they think reporters can be too aggressive. that's not really how ben jacobs described what happened to him when he spoke to our colleague chris hayes last night. >> i was hoping to get the most basic statement on the cbo report. i wasn't expecting -- i think i wasn't expecting detailed policy, but then again, i also

wasn't expecting to be body slammed. >> did gianforte's aides or himself say anything to you after that? >> no. they asked me to leave between the police and the paramedics. i was not quite paying attention to anything else. >> reporter: and craig, as you know, as anyone who has covered capitol hill knows or anyone who has watched coverage on capitol hill tv knows, reporters getting in the face with politicians asking questions is pretty much par for the course. we'll know in a few hours, or maybe tonight depending on how the counting goes, whether greg gianforte will have that opportunity, still. >> to be clear, we still don't know how the congressman feels about the new health care bill since the cbo score came out. we still don't have is the answer to that question. >> reporter: they have not answered that. >> vick is standing by for us on

capitol hill. v vick, i know we heard from paul ryan, the speaker on the hill. what else have you heard from colleagues? >> reporter: we're doing everything we usually do waiting for members of congress, we stick a microphone in their face. particularly today, greg gi gianforte, what happened last night, i have to say, all of them condemned the violence, the actions, the alleged actions of greg gianforte, but there is an undercurrent, really, of resentment that's always there from politicians for the press and particularly on the republican side of the aisle. it's not welcome news, first of all. again, they all disapprove. second of all, it takes them off message yet again. they've been answering questions

about this all day. they would rather be talking about the budget or health care, and there are political ramifications. as garrett has been saying all morning, this is a 21-trump state. montana has a close race here and who knows how this will play out over the course of the next 24 hours for those who are late deciding and showing up at the polls today. paul ryan, the top republican of the house, the top member of congress as speaker of the house, had this reaction to the events this morning before reporters. >> should the gentleman apologize? yeah, i think he should apologize. i know he has his own version, and i'm sure he's going to have more to say, but there's no call for this no matter what, on any circumstance. the people of the state of montana are going to decide who they will send to congress. >> reporter: what that means, that last statement, the people of montana will decide, craig, is that any effort or cause to refuse or block the seating of greg gianforte should he win

this seat, paul ryan is going to heed the call or the votes of montanans and allow him to be seated. he will not try to block him or unseat him any way. >> mike viquera and paul haake in montana. here's a little more what folks are saying about it. >> reporter: what did you think about reports of greg gianforte allegedly body slamming a reporter? >> i'm not surprised. >> reporte i'm not surprised because the integrity or the ability to hang in there through the toughest of times, and this wasn't very much. this was just a reporter asking a question. it was inevitable. >> reporter: did it make you question your vote at all? >> it didn't make me question my vote because i think he can do a good job. he has a business background and

i know him personally, so i think he can do a good job. i think he made a mistake in not holding his cool. >> joining the conversation, editor for bloomberg business week, megan murphy, correspondent steve kornacki and "new york times" political reporter and msnbc political contributor megan montessori. how much of this is just chickens coming home to roost? was this something that was inevitable considering the current climate in this country? >> i don't think it was inevitable. i think when you look at this, he needs to isolate the behavior of one man, greg gianforte, and allegedly body slamming a reporter. as one montana newspaper said in pulling its endorsement of him said this isn't behavior we would accept in a bar fight, let alone when a reporter puts a microphone in your face. it's depressing this happened,

but the level of discord we're in. we had a week where 22 people were killed in a suspended terrorist attack. we had the united kingdom condemning donald trump for intelligence leaks. we had a cbo score on a bill that shows 23 million more americans could be uninsured. we have the latest development on a travel ban that could affect thoands of people on visas. and a physical assault on a member of the press, it's a sign of the times. i'm not sure you can trace this to trumpism or trump, but you can certainly trace it to the did he degradation of discourse we're having right now. >> and president trump was part of that call. >> for my friend, republican greg gianforte, for congress. he's a wonderful guy, he's going

to win for you, and i tell you what, the people of montana are going to be happy. >> it would seem to me that republicans are now put in sort of a lose-lose. the guy loses the race tonight, then all of a sudden they've lost ryan zinke's old seat to democrats. but if he wins, this is a story that's not going away. >> i don't know, craig. it could also be a win-win for them. if gianforte loses tonight, they can blame it on his strange outburst and attack on a reporter, and if he loses, they can say, gosh, this guy can still win in this state after punching a reporter. it shows that the rising anxiety against republicans is not really going to happen elsewhere. i could see it both ways politically. just to go back, craig, ben jacobs was asking him a basic question about policy, and the most important policy in the country right now, the center of political debate. if gianforte can't answer a question about that, he probably shouldn't be in congress, i

think. >> again, to be clear, we still don't know where he stands on it. he never did answer the question about where he stands on the new health care bill in light of the new cbo score. mr. kornacki, walk us through it here. is this a race that he could still win? >> the thing is, there's the election after last night and there's the election before last night, and most of the election was conducted bore this happened before anybody heard of it. look, they mailed out more than 0,000 ballots in montana. more than a month ago, close of business yesterday, they had gotten more than 250,000 back. there's probably tens of thousands in the mail. you can basically expect about 300,000 votes were cast in this race before any of this happened. that's probably about two out of every three votes that are going to be cast total. >> so, again, it would seem as if, because of early voting, this is probably a race. there's a good chance this race was divided before the altercation. >> it could be. the end of the question, too, the national climate changed in

a way when gianforte was in danger because donald trump wanting a check, something like that. that was on the line before last night, then you add this in. you still have people voting today. if it changes how they vote, if it was a close vote before this, it could swing the vote. but early voting a huge, huge variable in this thing. >> a special election on a thursday before a holiday. it would seem to a lot of folks that they don't necessarily want a lot of people voting there in montana, steve. >> i tell you, though, this is a pretty high turnout special election. to have 260,000 votes already backing this thing, it's higher than you see in a lot of other places. >> if you have that many ballots going out in the mail, then -- big thanks to all of you. british intel on the ariana grande concert bombing in the u.k. to say they are unhappy would be

quite an understatement. can president trump calm the waters with our biggest ally over the pond? and what exactly happened here? president trump seeming to push another leader, literally, out of the way. we'll go to brussels for the latest. can you love wearing powerful sunscreen? yes! neutrogena® ultra sheer. unbeatable protection helps prevent early skin aging and skin cancer with a clean feel. the best for your skin. ultra sheer®. neutrogena®.

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prime minister, the nations

here, we grieve with you and stand with you. i would like to ask that we now observe a moment of silence for the victims and families of the savage attack which took place in manchester. >> that was president trump there speaking earlier today at a nato gathering in belgium, talking about this week's terror attack in the united kingdom. british prime minister theresa may stood among the leaders around the president as he made those remarks. their meeting comes as the british officials there are accusing the united states of leaking information related to the bombing at the ariana grande concert in manchester. may issuing a strong statement about that earlier today. >> we have a special relationship with the usa. it is our deepest defense in security partnership that we have. of course, that partnership is built on trust. and part of that trust is

knowing that intelligence can be shared confidently. and il will be making clear to president trump today that the intelligence he shared between law enforcement agencies must remain secure. >> president trump has since called the leaks, quote, deeply troubling and is asking the justice department to investigate. we also have some new video of the president in belgium. this is president trump in belgium just a few moments ago. he's expected to depart brussels this hour, we're told. president trump there in belgium. for more on all of this, let's bring in msnbc's hans nichols and michael farwell as well. hans, let me start with you there in belgium before we get to the nato stuff. we just got another ruling

striking down the white house's travel ban. when can we expect to hear some reaction from the president on that, or has there already been some sort of response? >> reporter: there hasn't been a response. about half of the white house staff is up in the air heading to sicily right now, and within the hour, as you said, president trump will be leaving with his entourage on air force i as well. there is a chance trump could come to the back of the plane to talk or send sean spicer to give a statement. so there is plenty of day left in the traveling white house to respond the ruling that has obliterated them. >> it overshadowed the nato meeting to some extent, it would seem. at vthe very start this morning this was the moment that trae attrted a lot of people. i want to play it for our viewers at home. >> silence. did the alleged leaks remain the

elephant in the room throughout the day? >> reporter: well, we don't know. we know that trump tried to lance the boil by announcing this justice department investigation. it's clear the white house officials want to get ahead of this. they dispatched secretary tillerson to london to try to smooth things over, and in some way trump's complaints about leaks inside the government have been fairly consistent from his own challenges to this one. so there is a consistency there. we'll see to what extent theresa may, the prime minister of the united kingdom, is willing to accept trump's explanation. clearly for her, she wanted to express in a very public way her discomfort, and frankly, her upsetness with this, in the same way that president trump wanted to publicly berate the members of nato for not reaching a target of 2% for gdp. we have a private dinner going on right now. each leader gets three minutes to speak. they take that fairly seriously, so if this meeting goes on, if this dinner goes on and we don't

see trump until 9:00 or 9:15 could be an indication we had not fireworks but maybe a little more friction inside that dinner. >> as hans mentioned, president trump was seen chatting with prime minister may this morning. the body language seemed less than warm. what do we know about the relationship of the president of the united states and theresa may, the prime minister of the united kingdom? >> reporter: on the face of it, it's very close. she got some criticism in the u.k. with the closeness with which she showed to president trump when she visited washington a few months ago. but really, this row is about something else. it's about lower -- law enforcement and it's about security. officials are incredibly frustrated by those leaks for two reasons, really. firstly, because it appears to undermine their ability to buy

time to hold secrets from the people that they're trying to hunt down, but also, and perhaps more importantly, as police officials here in the northwest of england said today, it has caused a great deal of frustration for the families of the victims having to learn some of these details not from police officials but from leaks in the media. what we saw being leaked apparently from the u.s., according to british insiders, was firstly the name of the attacker. then some of the details about his background, some of the facts about his history, and finally, details of his device that he used which ended with last night's revelations published in the "new york times." it is according to one british official, to use the british phrase, really bad form. >> ambassador, the united kingdom has said they're going to stop intelligence sharing in the united states in the manchester investigation. what could be the practical impact of that?

>> well, it just sends a very bad press sent. i mean, the u.k. is one of our closest allies in the world. when i was in the u.s. government, we shared a lot of intelligence with our british colleagues on a range of issues, including terrorism. and the leadership and the culture has to begin at the top. let's not forget that president trump himself was a leaker of classified information from another ally. they have got to take this seriously, and they have to change it themselves. they can't just say the department of justice needs to investigate it, we need leadership from the white house on this. >> the president may have rolled back his comments on nato being, quote, obsolete, those comments from the campaign trail. didn't stop him today, though, from blasting allies about not paying their fair share. take a listen to what he said. >> 23 of the 28 member nations are still not paying what they should beaying and what they are supposed to be paying for

their defense. we should recognize that with these chronic underpayments and growing threats, even 2% of gdp is insufficient to close the gaps in modernizing readiness and the size of forces. >> ambassador, is what the president just said there, is it true? >> it's true that nato allies, during the obama administration, by the way, not during the trump era, committed to spend 2% of their gdp as part of the alliance. what i think was improper, and i think it was a very disappointing speech for that measure, is that he berated them in front of them all standing there. by the way, he didn't do that with our saudi friends, the sensitive things they talked about allegedly, they did behind closed doors. he chose to berate them in a

public setting, and it's also what he sdididn't say. he didn't say anything about article 5. he didn't say anything about our commitment that an attack on one is an attack on all, and he just skipped over russia. i think that speech was looked at -- he had a chance. it was very easy to do. it literally could have been one or two sentences, and i think he deliberately chose not to say those things. that is the news in europe today. why didn't he say those very obvious things that have been pillars of the nato alliance for decades? >> before we go, hans, i want to play this moment again. it's become quite popular on the internet. this is president trump earlier this morning walking among nato leaders. he appears to just push aside montenegro's prime minister there. what was that? >> i'm not going to talk about that unless we can do a slow motion frame and do this in a proper sports center venue. clearly that is the me of an old high school athlete, which i

believe mr. trump was. mr. trump clearly wanted to get to the front of the line, someone was in his way and he got there. i think we should leave it to the sports announcers and let's see what the prime minister of montenegro has to say. they are the newest member of nato. they don't officially become one until the end of the week, so maybe the prime minister of montenegro didn't understand the new rules are last in, first out. >> we did slow it down for you but i'm not going to try to take a stab at that. unfortunately, a lot of folks have preconceived notions about this country. they can just put that video, that 7-second clip, they can point at that, and for a lot of folks that is emblematic, unfortunately, of the procession they have of our country. good to see you back here. ambassador mcfaul, thank you for your insight.

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i think greg should apologize, i think it's warranted and let the people of montana decide what happens tonight. >> that was montana senator steve deines there speaking with our reporter a short time ago. that coming on the heels of greg gianforte allegedly body slamming a reporter. his campaign blaming the confrontation on an aggressive reporter, also blaming it on the liberal media as well. it's a formal line of attack because it's often been used by then-candidate and now president donald trump. >> the press is very, very dishonest, and i think people are wise to the press. >> in my opinion to the media, it's very low. i think the media is frankly made up of people in many cases, not in all cases, are not good people. >> the dishonest media, which has published one false story

after another, with no sources even though they pretend they have them, they make them up in many cases. a few days ago i called the fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. >> former illinois congressman republican j walsh, democratic strategist joe simmons. they join me now. joe, first of all, your general reaction to what we saw transpire, and how much blame should president trump get, considering some of the rhetoric that we've heard from this president -- well, and before he was president from the candidate himself. >> craig, my reaction was horrible, outrageous. i don't know why there is not more condemnation on my side, on my republican side. look, as a congressman and a candidate, i tussled over the years with members of the media as well, but i don't give a damn

how liberal a reporter is, how obnoxious a reporter is, how biased a reporter is, you never, ever, ever physically assault a reporter. and that's what happened last night. a candidate for congress committed a crime. it's outrageous. and it should be widely condemned. >> jamal, i'll come to you with that second question i asked joe there. how much blame should the president get? how much responsibility should he bear given a fair amount of the rhetoric that's been aimed at the media? >> well, president trump has certainly set this up for about a year or so with the media being the enemy. he even referred to himself, talking about the enemy of the people. we have so many stories of reporters who were standing at trump events getting glares, getting jeers, all that. it bleeds over, and when the man who became president of the united states shows such disregard for a journalist, i don't think it's unreasonable to think that when a candidate or

member of congress behaves this year, he's been influenced toward what is really a constitutionally protected form of engagement in our society. >> craig, that's not right. that's a bunch of bull. come on, craig. trump has called out the media. he's never body slammed the media, and think about this. for a year and a half, trump has been going after the media, how many nut jobs out in the streets have taken shots at members of the media? zero. you have a congressional candidate, a congressional candidate, craig. this isn't some nut job on the street. he's got his own issues, man. >> joe, again, i think one could question this particular candidate's temperament, yeah. but you would have to concede that the rhetoric, that a lot of what the president has said about members of the media, about journalists, about tv networks such as this one, that

hasn't helped the situation. >> i tell what you, craig, the feeling that trump voters have toward the media they've had for a long, long time. again, i think it's amazing. donald trump has been out there going after the media for a year and a half. how come we haven't had a rash of attacks out on the street? it's amazing. we've had one congressional candidate get physical last night. you can't put that on trump. >> look, this particular candidate bears responsibility fois own behavior. i've been in situation where candidates have almost gotten physical and have regained their composure and decided not to do it but this particular candidate has his own thing. we cannot separate this, though, from the general tone that's taking place, particularly from inside the white house where they are identifying the media as enemies of the people, phrases they don't even use anymore in russia, which is apparently a place where the president gets a lot of conversation in his political life. we don't even hear phrases like

that coming from places like that. so i think when you call the media enemies of the people, you bear some responsibility when people treat them like enemies of the people. >> also, to be clear here, it's not even like ben jacobs was asking the guy about some sort of alleged affair or not paying his taxes -- i mean, he was asking him his opinion on the cbo score. i mean, it does beg the question, if this was his reaction to that, what happens when he gets to washington and you've got reporters in your face, joe? you know what that's like. >> absolutely, craig. i mean, put your big boy pants on. he's in for a rude awakening. as you said, craig, i mean, my god, we still don't know where he stands on the cbo score. >> this is how some of the republicans have reacted to all of this. take a listen. >> reporter: would he be welcome in the republican conference if he wins tonight?

>> yes. of course. >> reporter: he was charged with assault. >> i don't think he was charged on all the facts, but there will be proceedings to deal with that. but right now i would accept him. >> there has been a tense, confrontational approach throughout the country in recent months. it's unfortunate that this happened today. >> i believe that congressman from arizona was blaming the left, blaming, i guess, all liberals for the incident which seems like a bit of a stretch. and joe, you're nodding disapprovingly. no, you're nodding approvingly. you're nodding. >> aim grei'm agreeing with you. i think what happened last night is beyond outrageous. a candidate committed assault against a reporter who asked a simple policy question. that's a big deal, and it should

be a big deal to montana voters. unfortunately, it sounds like most of them have already voted. >> jamal, if democrats come up short in this race, what would that mean? >> i think that we overplay special elections when it comes to whether or not democrats will take over in 2018. there are cases where democrats win special elections where we have not taken over, there are cases when we've lost special elections and we did take over. i think we have to have a little humility on this. this campaign is going to ride on whether or not the american people think anything donald trump is doing is making their lives better and if congress has a vision for making our lives beer. russia has place, but people know dald ump is a bad acr. what they don't know is what the democrats are going to do to make our lives a better place. >> thank you. he's prepping his board and checking it twice. ali velshi standing by to break down the facts when it comes to

the cbo score of the public health care bill. what it really means for you and your loved ones. former president barack obama in berlin today meeting earlier with german chancellor angela merkel. their meeting happened ahead of merkel's visit with donald trump later today at the g7. mr. obama eluding to one of his successor's policies. take a listen. >> in this new world we live in, we can't isolate ourselves. we can't hide behind a wall. has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ ♪

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this is exactly why we are on a rescue mission. between premiums surging up and choices going away, obamacare is on an unsustainable path. >> that was house speaker paul ryan there talking about the need to replace obamacare. the much anticipated budget congressional assessment says the gop budgets plan would leave 23 million more people without insurance under the current law over 10 years. business correspondent and coho cohost, ali velshi, separating fact from fiction. what's the top line here? >> the top line is by 2026, because we like to play things

out, 23 million more people, as you just said, will be on the short list. 14 million in 2018, 19 million by 2020 and 23 million by 2026, more than what would be the case with obamacare. under obamacare, the aca, by 2026, there would be a total of 28 million americans still uninsured, which is not fantastic. under the american health care act, trumpcare, if you want to call it, there will be 51 million people uninsured. we're increasing that number. i want you to think about policy premiums for a second. policy premiums are always going up. they're never going down. when you hear people say there will be lower premiums, it's not true. in 2018, premiums will be 20% higher than under obamacare, by 2019 it's start to go steady. it will be only 5% higher than it would have been under obamacare, and here they're saying premiums will be going

down. in 2026, they might be 20% lower than they would be under aca. important to understand, they are always going up, they're not going down. let me show you another way of thinking about this. by 2026 under the affordable care act, obamacare, insurance premiumsobamacare, insurance premiums would have gone up by 5.5% a year. under this new bill, it will go up by between 4.5% and 5.3%. so remember, they're still going up. the thing you have to remember is that you're not necessarily getting the same insurance for the lower premium. you're getting a lot less. here's the other one. $844 billion is being cut out of medicaid. this is important. before the expansion of medicaid, there weren't that many americans on medicaid. 14 million fewer people will get medicaid. so in rural america where an entire hospital depends on it is medicaid funded, you might lose the entire hospital.

>> always such a great job. great tie, too. and a reminder if you haven't caught the new show, it airs sath, 12 sko:30 p.m. eastern. so so-called architect. i know you always snicker when we say that but it's true. always good to have you. i want to go back to something that mark sanford, congressman from south carolina, said to me last hour on msnbc with regards to the cbo score. he took issue with this idea that there would be millions more uninsured. he said part of the reason that was the case was because the cbo was saying that folks would be uninsured, when in fact they would have less insurance than they would otherwise under obamacare. is that true? >> no. he's making his own argument against himself. cbo says 23 million will lose

insurance. all together on. top of that, many people will see much worse insurance. so that 40% premium decline, that's from two components. first, insurance getting much worse. second of all, sick people getting kicked out of market. states will be kicking sick people out of market. sure, if you don't give insurance to sick people, rates can come down. so you're not comparing apples to apples. on that basis, it will raise premiums. people will get worse insurance. >> for those buying their own insurance, it would mean some significant prices, increases for older poor americans. an individual making $26,000 a year for those 64 years old and older, your premium could go up to a minimum of $12,000.

we want to leave this up so folks can digest this information. they talk about 199 million being cut out of the deficit. is this worth the tradeoffs? >> let's look at the simple numbers. they're going to cut medicaid. one of our most important social programs by $800 billion. then take more than $1 trillion out of spending cuts and you get only 100 billion deficit. why the difference? they're spending all that money in a huge tax cut for the rich. so there is literally nothing in this bill. if they cut that and said we'll put it all toward deficit reduction. i would not like it but they would have a coherent argument. they're literally taking

billions from not jt low-income families but remember two-thirds of medicaid spending elderly and disabled. this is your mom in the nursing home. she gets paid for by medicaid. that gets cut. so they're taking it from our most vulnerable citizens and not even lowering the deficit. it is just unfair. >> we'll have to leave it there. we'll be talking to you a lot over the next few months, perhaps even years. one of the architects of obamacare coming to us from massachusetts. we'll be back with today's one more thing. first, when it comes to hate speech and terrorist propaganda, social media companies have a new watch dog on their hands. >> the european ministers have required companies such as facebook, and youtube. the proposal will be approved by the european parliament before becoming law and may not apply

to live platforms. it would be the first of the eu level for companies to be accountable for hate speech. it's time for your business entrepreneur of the week. he is a frustrated musician turned urban winemaker. it is a restaurant, a winery and a music venue. he's taken the leap, expanding now to five cities. for more, watch weekends at 7:30 a.m. american express open cardn help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out howmericanexpress cards

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one more thing about poverty and how one gets there. it is simply mind over matter, according to hud. >> i think poverty to a large extent is a state of mind.

he who has the right mindset. you can take everything from th a p them on the street and i guarantee you, in a little ile, they'll be right back up there. an you take somebody with the wrong mindset. you can give them everything in the world. they'll work back down to the bottom. >> poverty. a state of mind, according to dr. carson, adding to a growing list of controversial comments by the former brain surgeon who grew up in poverty himself. earlier this month, carson said public housing should not be, quote, too comfortable because it will make people say i'll just stay here. they will take care of me. but speaking of comfortable, carson reportedly just sold his mansion for a whopping $920,000. and not all republicans share carson's point of view. >> here's the hard core reality in 2017. you have to have a boat first. the party should be less about taking the tools away from people to build their boat and

more about providing them with access to the tools they need so they can create that opportunity, so when that tide of prosperity comes in, their boat rises too. >> i'm craig melvin in for katy tur this thursday. >> thank you. always good to see you. have a great afternoon. we begin with breaking news on prump president trump's travel ban. a federal court just voted to uphold one of the appeals on the ban. this one restricts travel from six predominantly muslim countries. justice correspondent pete williams joins me. you can say this more elegantly than i just did. >> i don't know about that. maybe differently is the way i would say it. this means the president trump can't enforce his revised executive order, limiting travel from six predominantly muslim countries.