efore e thvacation begins. your memorial day weekend is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. find great deals now at booking.com. booking.yeah! he's back. good morning, and welcome to "a.m. joy" i'm jonathan capehart housesitting for joy as she is a guest on "meet the press." president trump calls the nine-day international tour a home run but coming back to a white house embroiled in scandal over the trump campaign's contacts with russia, the focus on his son-in-law and senior aide jared kushner. kushner awarding to "the washington post" and the "new

york times" met in december with russian ambassador sergei kislyak and asked to open a secret line of communication directly to the kremlin via the russian embassy. although the administration wouldn't comment specifically on the latest jared news, national security adviser general h.r. mcmaster had this to say yesterday about opening back channels to the russians. >> we have back-channel communications with a number of countries, so generally speaking, about back-channel communications, what that allows to you do is to communicate in a discreet manner, so it doesn't pre-dipose you toward any sort of content of that conversation or anything so no, we don't have to be concerned about it. >> join me, corinne jean pierre from moveon.org, jamal simmons, democratic strategist. donald trump isn't just back from europe, he's also back on twitter, and making up for lost time. starting shortly after 8:00 a.m.

eastern he started tweeting, let's review. it is my opinion that many of the leaks coming out of the white house are fabricated lies made up by the fake news media. whenever you see the word "sources say" in the fake news media and they don't mention names, it is very possible that those sources don't exist, but are made up by fake news writers. #fakenewsistheenemy. does anyone notice how the montana congressional race was such a big deal to dems and fake news until the republican won? victory was poorly covered." i've introduced you coreen jean pierre and ja pal simmonis i ja. the man got off the plane not six hours before and back on the twitters. >> i think this whole notion of, that's happening right now in the white house to set up some sort of monitoring system when it comes to his twitter is certainly not going to work, and

when we talk about staff shakeups, it's not going to work either because the problem is with donald trump. you can't change who he is. he's unhinged and he just can't help himself and go straight to the twitter account. >> three really significant things happened in the last few days. first the president of the united states went to saudi arabia and gave a speech where he said to the gathered autocrs in the room we are not going to tell you how to live we're not going to tell you what to do. we are changing our foreign policy posture regarding democracy and freedom and making that a priority. two, he went to nato and did not affirm an attack upon a nato country is an attack upon them all knowing russia is invading crimea and the third thing his son-in-law jared kushner is now under investigation for trying to set up a back channel communication, back channel from who? away from american intelligence agencies, away from american

listening devices to talk to the russians. three significant things so the president this morning gets up and starts tweet being things that are irrelevant, distracting away from the three really big points that happened. >> we've known for a very long time that the president will use twitter to like throw a smoke bomb over here to distract from other issues. jamal you just laid it out clearly what these tweets this morning he hopes will distrablt fr tract from the three things you talked about. talking in the back channels that jared kushner tried to set up, let's go to element one if we could. because the "new york times" story mentions that the back channel was set up so that they could, so kushner and the trump administration could come in and talk you know, without other people listening, about syria. do we have that there? now there's element two, i know

i'm supposed to read that but i've already explained it, but in this story the "new york times" story according to people knowledgeable of the situation and then my colleague at the republican, the national editor scott wilson tweeted saturday, we talked to these "people" too. we would not publish their account unless they were speaking they were speaking for kushner. they refused. it jurnd omped out to me readine washington post" story and "new york times" story with that specificity about syria it made me think that the white house at least through anonymous sources was pushing back against "the washington post" story. >> sure, i think mcmaster has to be careful. all these people hanging around donald trump are very much putting themselves in jeopardy. vouching for trump and his family is tough for mcmaster, reputations they bring to the white house and as my father said, i'll say it before it, there's something stanky going

on with the russia issue. something smells in the refrigerator. we have to keep unpc packing things until we find out what it is. >> you had a former cia director with lawrence o'donnell if the story is true about jared kushner it is espionage. they need to be careful. i'd take the word of a cia director of nonpartisan intelligence folks than what's going on in the white house. >> one of the pushbacks on the news media and just what's happening in general in terms of the leaks and the sources saying is that oh, it's the dark state. it's the obama holdover, so we're doing this sort of thing with no acknowledgment of the fact that there is a permanent government not in a pejorative sense but there are career people in positions at state, at the defense department whose job it is to help bring about the continuity of government.

>> right. >> to say that folks are doing this to carry over the obama administration is ludicrous, no? >> right. it's not the obama holdovers that are doing this. it is people who care about our democracy and worried about what they're seeing. donald trump is the commander in chief holding the nuclear codes and the things that he is doing are incredibly dangerous and we see it from his own white house people are leaking because they're concerned about what their boss is doing. >> pushback against president obama when they disagreed with the decisions he was making so this is a bipartisan nonpartisan approach the career officials have. >> i'm glad you brought up the fact. i love how the president always derides sources saying fake news when his west wing has the biggest leakest sieve in washington in recent memory. >> sometimes he's the leaking source. >> except that is dangerous what he's doing. >> one more thing since you're both sort of political

professionals, political operatives, a war room that's being set up within the white house to handle this jared kushner situation, smart move on their part or not? >> this is exactly what happened back when we were in the clinton administration, where people decided you got to section off these controversies, put them in a box so you can get back to the other issues of governing or else they take over everything, they have to create something to handle this. >> interesting. >> my concern instead of dealing with russia, answering question, what you're doing is using taxpayer money to do this war room, and i think it's just avoiding something that's really important. this is russia we're talking about. >> you know what readers, joy is joining us now. >> oh, no! >> it's official. joy reid is here. >> she's here. >> and national republican consultant indicateon dawson and amandi joy you were on "meet the press" when i hope we get to show the epic read you did.

i'm going to get your reaction. >> a lot of it, some of it is tragic. the willingness of general kelly to cosign what we've seen here and people are mistakenly calling a back channel, it is not the way do you a back-channel and they know working in administrations that's not how it works. it's tragic h.r. mcmaster had comments that were sad. the most important were from james clapper, look, the reality is we have one administration at a time so we don't have the incoming administration get to conduct a separate foreign policy while there say current president in place. and in this administration, the trump administration, had named their incoming secretary of defense by december 1st. so why on earth during the month of december before he was confirmed would you have your son-in-law having meetings not only with the russian ambassador

after you know russia hacked our election. >> long after. >> but also a kremlin-sanctioned bank, a kremlin connected bank. none of it makes sense. >> joy, it okay for you to have a policy change, and then they have the right to change policy in the administration. to do it secretly away from the eyes of other foreign policy officials that's what sfintinks here. >> indicateon dawson our lone republican consultant on the panel to get your reaction to what we've been talking about. >> you know, what you see is donald trump is missing wonderful opportunities to do what the voters who voted him in office, create an economic renaissance for america to be able to pay for the things that he wants to achieve. we'll get into the budget later, but all of these distractions are the journalists' perfect storm, they are a republican

operatives nightmare. so what we're looking at is jared kushner, 36 years old, moves into a position of power that is, can be overwhelming and breathtaking, and whether it's all true or not, these are disciplined mistaked inside a white house that is new, fresh, without a lot of institutional knowledge. certainly steve bannon and reince priebus had v a good bit but they're only two actors in there. we're looking for as republicans, we're so knee kede in russia, it feels bad and looks bad but we've been looking for the opportunity for donald trump to what he promised to do in the primaries and promised to do as president, create an economic renaissance of where if you got three jobs you move to two jobs, if you got two jobs you move to one job and to increase the economy and increase the ability for people to make a really good living and increase the ability to buy some decent health care. we're not there yet. we're stuck on russia right now.

>>er >> fernand is it possible for the white house to do what katon is talking about when they are indeed knee deep in russia? >> in a word, no. to be as clear as i can possibly be, some folks say they're concerned because we are owe an the brink of a constitutional crisis. we are in a constitutional crisis. why? because the white house has lost zero credibility, and i'm not just talking about the president of the united states. the entire executive branch now has no credibility internally within the american media, the international media and our allies around the world. the revelations about jared kushner literally setting up a back channel with the russian government i think underscored that. my concern is that folks think the institutions will come to the defense of this situation that speaks to constitutional crisis when the reality is that the institutions are watching it

unfold. the only institution i think is left is we the people. nearly 2 million more voted against this president it's time for folks to say we're in a constitutional crisis and take the necessary steps to prevent the further undermining of our procedure around the world. >> katon, what fernand brings up checks and balances. republicans control two big branches of government, and yet you would think that congress would do something to check and balance what's happening in the white house, and they don't seem to be terribly interested in doing that. at what point will speaker ryan and senator majority leader mitch mcconnell come around, go to the white house and say, mr. president, you've got to get your act together. >> well, i'm not sure that the speaker or leader mcconnell are going to go do that. what they're concerned with is

trying to govern. i have great respect for both gentlemen. they know their job. they know how to do their jobs. to the senate side, we've got 33 senate seats up, 25 democrats we need to gain eight to ten seats. donald trump's whole reelected history is going to line the 2018 senate elections. i don't think, i'm not as outraged as most of the panelists are because the republican nation was pretty happy with the foreign policy trip. there's a little confusion about us budding up and chumming up to russia and the ambassadors and everything around that. our frustration is that donald trump we feel like he's probably missing the opportunity to probably pass a really good tax reform plan, to probably get some places, some things in place to do budget deficits, so as far as the constitutional crisis, i mean, i don't see that. i don't get that. >> katon, we're all like -- on

that point, thank you, we'll be back and so will i. up next joy takes her show back and trump is back from his world tour ready to wreak havoc on health care and a new budget. you don't want to miss any of this. >> are you kidding me? marie's turkey pot pie starts with turkey covered in a rich flavorful gravy, and a crust made from scratch. because she knows that when it's cold outside... it's good food and good company that keep you warm inside. marie callender's. it's time to savor. before fibromyalgia, i was a doer.

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what i'm encouraged by is the fact that cbo said yes we hit our budget target and then some. i am encouraged the cbo says we'll be able to drop premiums. if the government is going to stop forcing people to buy something they don't want to buy, then they won't buy it, that's what the cbo is saying. >> nope, nope, that' ectly totally ong. the congressional budget office found whent finally got the chance to evaluate the obamacare

repeal bill in ten years 23 million more people will be uninsured than if congress left the affordable care act alone not becauser this choosing not to buy insurance but because in some states insurance will become too expensive to afford especially for the poor and already sick. meanwhile, trump in absentia propose the his new budget this week that would gut safety net programs to give tax cuts to the rich. if that sounds almost cartoon villain cruel you haven't heard anything yet. >> for years and years we looked at a budget in terms of the folks who are on the back end of the programs, the recipients of the taxpayer money and we haven't spent nearly enough time focusing our attention on the people who pay the taxes. compassion needs to be on both sides of that equation. yes you have to have compassion for folks receiving the federal funds and also compassion for the folks who are paying it. >> my panel is back with me, and i want to start off and i want

to come right to you on this katon dau con. the cbo finally evaluated this health care bill that the republicans managed to get through the house, supposedly doa in the senate. it said if you weighed the preexisting rules, people who are less healthy including those with preexisting or newly acquired medical conditions would unable to purchase premiums if they could purchase at all despite the additional funding available to help reduce premiums. how can republicans justify a bill that would bounce 23 million people off insurance? does anybody in their right mind believe 23 million americans would choose not to be insured? >> let me start before i get started on this is at the end of the day, i've been very consistent. the party that owns the health care bill is usually the party that loses, except for the guy at the top, which was barack

obama. it is something, i can't say that it's unfixable or unrepairable but both of these plans start crashing under their own weight. i don't see the future for obamacare because of the way it blows out money and i don't see any success on the republican side. >> hold on one second, the only jeopardy to obamacare, there's two. one that the trump administration could pull the money that has been pledged to supplement people's premiums which donald trump haes threas n threatened to do and the uncertainty by the constant threatening to defund the subsidies people get for insurance are causing insurance companies to jump out of the market or raise premiums. it's republicans threatening the affordable care act not to mention you had republican governors all over the country, including the one in florida refused to cover their own

citizens with medicaid despite 100% match from the federal government. the cbo says it's not imploding. it's the republicans trying to kill it. why is your party trying to take people's health care? >> i think one of the things we've seen looks like kansas, didn't come up with blue cross/blue shield pulled out of the markets, it's the affordability insurance companies there and just where is the money going to come from in the future? the 2017 triggers that came in under obamacare came in on purpose. they came in after the president left office, so again, what i'll state is i'm not sure it's all curable and i'm not sure that the republican plan out of the house is certainly not going to look like the same thing out of the senate. mcconnell doesn't think can he garner the votes to pass it. we're probably stuck with obamacare, like it or not. >> 20 million people without insurance are telling the lord, thank you.

fe fernand, i wrote a piece about the almost koor toonish cruelty not only of the republicans at the top but also of the voters who go along with this, right in the middle is nick mulvaney who is not embarrassed. this is mulvaney talking about cutting social security disability payments. >> will any of the individuals who presently receive ssdi receive less as a result of this budget? >> i hope so. if there are people who are getting ssdi who should not be getting it -- >> those moment who should be get it. >> oh no, if people are really disabled. we are not kicking anybody off of any program who really needs it. >> fernand? >> joy, we can play all the clips from the trump administration in the world. that still doesn't make their logic justifiable. think of this as a parent complaining about their malnourished child only to

discover the parent is withholding u.s. isancwithhold i ing sustenance for that child. it does not justify what's going on in any way, shape or form. i look at what's taking place in south florida. we have the most enrollees into the affordable care act of any place in the nation and republican respectives carl s r the plan to throw off the two districts in america with the most enrollees. this is not just cruel. it is lethal and continues to be lethal because of an administration that has no credibility will not offer any answers to solve the problem. they're only going to exacerbate this crisis. >> jonathan, let's play donald trump during his announcement that he was going to run for president. this is what he said to the people who were going to vote for him. take a listen. >> save medicare, medicaid, and

social security without cuts. have to do it. get rid of the awed. get d of the waste and abuse, but save it. >> he said they would not cut medicaid and said multiple times they would not cut medicaid. this is nick mulvaney updating donald trump's promises on monday. >> we went down the list, yes, yes, no, no, yes, no, yes, no, no, okay? >> what were the yeses? >> ands no's -- well the stuff that's in the budget. the no's were social security and medicare. he said i promised people on the campaign trail i would not touch their retirement and i would not touch medicare and we don't do it. >> he's denying what we heard him say. >> yes, look, this is a prime example of what i've been saying from the very beginning of the trump administration, which is you really can't trust what they say until they actually do it. and so the president out there on the campaign trail, when he was a candidate said not going to do it, not going to do it, not going to do it and here is this budget that says well, yes,

we don't do it. so until congress actually gets through and does the budget process, will we see whether we can take the president at his word as a candidate or do we listen to the budget director, who says no, we're going to cut it. >> at the same time, coreen, we had this montana special election, beating up a reporter. underneath that the qstion whether the republicans supported doing all of these things to his own citizens, cutting medicaid. by the way he did support cutting their medicaid. he still won. putting aside the violence voters on the side seem to be okay even if it hurts them. >> that's the thing i don't understand. if you look at trumpcare the people it hurts the most are his people, the folks we're talking about in the rust belt. on the budget it is a moral document, a wish list, like you were saying, congress is going to ultimately decide what happens.

this is your wish list taking away s.n.a.p., cutting meals on wheels, not funding social security disability fund? this is what they are proposing from that white house. and on the trump care, trumpcare is death care, whthat's what th should call it. cutting medicaid by $800 billion but giving tax cuts to the millionaires and billionaires of $900 billion. it's the survival of the rich t richistest. >> it is a puzzle, and we need to sort it out. it is bizarre but we'll leave it there and talk about something there's some sad news, these are times when we really do need great data and pollsters. sergio bendixen, fernanda's friend, business, partner, mentor, died friday at the age of 68. fernand i know this was somebody very important to you. i want to give you an opportunity for our viewers who don't know about sergio

bendixen, tell us a little bit about your friend. >> sergio was truly a pioneer and someone who changed this country for the better. understanding and recognizing the importance of the demographic shifts that were taking place in the united states, and giving those people a voice who never before in terms of polling. we only saw english language polling that was the tradition, as the country changed and become normal to lingual, sergio introduced polling in language of preference which allowed them to be represented in public opinion for the first time. true pioneer, someone who devoted his life not only to this country, but to the premise of allowing people to have their opinion expressed, not social interest but going to the people themselves, eightit's a tremend legacy, one that will be missed and we need in this country going forward. >> absolutely. we should note bendixen's firm was the first to go into cuba and i can tell you that is not

an easy thing to to to go in and conduct polls there. you guys have done great work and he will be miss. condolences to you ferfernand. jonathan a jonathan and coreen will be back. more "a.m. joy" up next. break through your allergies.

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and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet? ever since the election of donald trump the democratic party has been wringing its hands trying to figure out what went wrong. now its most loyal voter base is saying pay attention to what went right, the group of voters who always show up for democrats, ofafrican-american women. 43% of white women voted for hillary clinton, 94% of black women voted for her. in 2012 it was the highest voter turnout. voter numbers declined in 2016 to 64%.

now they want that loyalty to be recognized and rewarded. in an open letter to tom perez, a group of black women leaders criticized the lack of black women in leadership roles and asked for a meeting to address their concerns. they write "we have demonstrated our commitment to the party. it's time for the party to demonstrate its commitment to us." but this push comes as some democrats urge the party to turn away from so-called identity politics toward a more populist economic message. we just saw a big test of that this week in montana. i'll discuss with my panel, when we come back.

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this was a telling week in the bat follow are the future of the democratic party. in montana senator bernie sanders' connection to white working class voters was put to the test as he supported democrat rob quist for a house

seat. quist focused his campaign on health care and economic issues but he ultimately lost. the dnc is facing pressure from another voting bloc it's come to rely on african-american women. group of black women write "organizing without the engage. of black women will prove to be a losing strategy and there's much too much at stake to ignore black women." joining me political strategist l. joy williams and crystal ball author of "reversing the apocalypse." l. joy, i start with you and talk to you about the letter you wrote. i want to read one more clip of that letter written by you and dozens, a couple dozen other women. it says "we have voted and organized our communities with little support or investment from the democratic party for voter mobilization efforts. we have shown how black women

lead, yet the peararty's leaderp in washington have few or no black women in leadership. more and more they are running for elections and winning with scant support from the democratic party structure." explain. >> i come from a school that believes a closed mouth doesn't get fed and these things that we highlight in the letter is not something new. it's something that our communities have been saying for many elections that the party itself doesn't invest in the infrastructure particularly for people of color, and at a time when all of the think pieces and also the democratic party's current strategy at least the public strategy right now is investing and listening to other members of the coalition that belong to the dnc, noticeably absent is an investment and a listening tour of black women leaders and black women as a voting bloc, when we are

primarily the most loyal voting bloc to the party. so what we believed is putting words and continuing to shout from the rooftops thate've been doing the organizing. we do it without significant investment from a party structure, and from other donors, so we do that already. now we're screaming loudly that you should pay attention to this base, because there's a serious crack in the foundation of their support. >> tom perez responds and said the following, a dnc response sent to a.m. joy yesterday "while african-american women are at the core of our party and of the resistance they are too often taken for granted. we are convening women from across the country to discuss how we can better engage the issues confronting african-american women and partner with them to elect more leaders who share their values." does that statement satisfy you? >> i wish it was a direct statement, obviously i love your show and it is a direct statement to the show, there

wasn't this immediate response to even acknowledge the letter and the sentiment within it. look, we're not looking for just the words. we're not looking for a press release response and even in that response it says we're listening to women but our response we are talking black. we said black women, that's what we want a response to and that doesn't just mean hiring one or two people to be the face and at the party for black women. that's really, we're talking about a deep investment. so it's not only with hires. it's not only the party going into communities in october for november elections. we're talking about hiring people for strategy, hiring people and recruiting candidates. we're talking about at all levels of investment, and that's what's missing. >> and you know, crystal, iant to bring knew this. the democrac party since the election has been doi this dance where they seem to be chasing the bernie sanders supporters around the country, tom perez did this big tour he

went around and trying to figure out what went wrong on the side of white voters, not looking at that pretty demonstrable drop in black voter turnout that may have something to do with voters oppression and messaging. even hillary clinton, this was even hillary clinton the other day at wellesley. >> a lot of our fellow americans have lost faith in the existing economic social political and cultural conditions of our country. their economic problems and cultural anxiety must be addressed or they will continue to sign up to be foot soldiers in the ongoing conflict between us and them. >> and crystal, are you concerned that the party has become so obsessed with trying to figure out and psych out

white working class voters that they are forgetting that black voters really are the core of the base and are the people who will turn out if you reach out to them? >> well, anything that the party does given where we are right now, and not just our loss in the presidential election, but as we've talked about before, our massive losses across the country, in governors mansions and at the state legislative level, everything we do has to be yes, and. we have to absolutely do exactly what l. joy is saying and make sure that we are paying attention to the people who have gotten us as far as they have gotten us. but the bottom line is and i think this affects our appeal in white working class communities, i think it affects our appeal and part of why african-american turnout was down, why latinos did not back us the way we expected to running against donald trump. we do not as a party have an economic vision for the future. >> but real quick, we are almost out of time but i want to ask

you about that. in montana we ran a petrie dish experiment. there were some native americans but their votes are pretty suppressed around montana. this was white voters, republicans versus democrats. bernie sanders went in there, supported quist, the democrat, he ran on bernie's platform. he ran the experiment that you're talking about, all about economics, all about economic issues. there was no racial issue or you know, identity poll tingz. democrats couldn't win there. so why is that theory viable if it can't work in montana? >> it's not a petrie dish because it doesn't happen in a vacuum. the add gianforte ran against quist called him nancy pelosi in a cow hoy hat, tying him to the incredibly damaged national brand and part of the problem isn't a policy or an economic issue. it's also the way that we have chosen and selected candidates. what does nancy pelosi mean? out of touch elite.

she means tied into the donor communities and i'm not even talking about whether that's true or not. that's the brand -- >> but -- glhold on, when we fos on a party picking candidates based on their connections to the donor class rather than their connections to the community, that's how we get this national brand. it's not going to take one race to fix it. it takes a whole re-branding of the party. >> okay, we're out of time but i will make the point and i think it's an important point, nancy pelosi actually manages to win elections. people down her and sort of tie her of what's wrong with the party. >> wait, we've been devastated in the house. we have the smallest caucus since reconstruction. that's not winning. >> but that was a perfectly bernie sanders race. he ran that experiment in montana, if his message is so powerful to white working class people, why didn't it work? >> because he is still part of an incredibly damaged democratic party. >> bernie is? >> no, rob quist. quist in montana. >> we don't have time.

he ran on bernie sanders platform. it's an interesting debate and both of you make great points. thank you both. the dnc's jamie harrison will be back after a quick break and will respond to what he just heard and coming up in our next hour i'll be joined by resistance hero congressman maxine waters and "star trek" hero george takei. dear predictable, there's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced,

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thanks to our love people to tireless engage in the discussion online. #amjoy in your tweets so we can see them and follow the show on twitter and follow me on twitter, facebook, snapchat and instagram. up next, jamie harrison will be here to sporespond to an urg plea from black women voter. ♪

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joining me is jamie

harrison, associate chair and council for the dnc to continuous discussion. the dnc preferred that he responded one-on-one. we'll do one and then two. let's start with the concerns raised by elle joy and glinda carr, who wrote to the dnc saying we are the wroters thvot are most reliable to the dnc and yet the dnc ignores black women. how do you respond? >> i agree that the african-american women are the heart of the democratic party. i told that to the delegates that came to south carolina, if they wanted to win the presidency, they had to make sure african-american women were

on their side. if you take a look at the staff of the dnc -- the woman who oversees our leadership office of all the vice chairs, associate chair is an. woman. right now we're in the midst of interviewi interviewing and the top two candidates are african-american women. that's not always the cases in the democratic party is only one component. we, wo are working to make sure

diversity of our party is showcased as well. >> except in the previous iteration, done a brazil was the head of one of those departments. right now in the very upper echelon, the top senior leadership, you have tom perez, you have just hired an executive woman, who is a woman but a white woman, you have keith ellison, a senior person in the party and when you just have the dnc take its show on the roads, it was keith ellison and bernie sanders. lorna, johnson has been added to leadership on the fund-raising side, i saw lorna, but i only know she's on the senior leadership because i know her. you said it' sw a not tell. the show has been t pez, keith ellers and bernie

sanders. >> this have been press releases -- lornena,e lorna,'s release was at the same time of mine. once tom perez got in the chair, he appointed three more african-americans to the leadership team. >> turnout among african-americans reached a high of 66.6% in 2012, it dropped to 59.6% in 2016. why do you think that happened? >> we're not talking to african-americans about the issues that are most important them. we're not doing the things to

gin up the interest to get them to vote. people are just giving lip service to the issues that are important to us. we need to see them out in the community. that's why we've been trying to do things in south carolina in order to do that, again, showing and not telling, helping people address the issues important to them. those are the types of programs that we want to instite at this new dnc so we're in the communities doing the service so even when we're out of power, we can still empower people and that's at the core of it. >> and other statistics, there's a poll from january that cornel belcher presented that showed that 63% of african-american voters feel that the democratic party takes them for granted. given that why so much emphasis on trying to win white working class voters who are republicans? we just saw in montana they're republicans. they just are.

listen, i think part of the unity tour was tom was trying to bring together the divisions of the presidential primary, between the clinton folks and the bernie folks trying to bring them together. i don't think -- and i think you will see this in the programs that we roll out over the course of the next few months, the concentration is how do we gin up energy in our base, and the core of that is the african-american community. >> we appreciate you being here. thank you for your time. >> we'll do it again, mixing it up with our guests. we home the dnc will do that. more "am joy" afters break. and the 5g network they connect to. with this, won't happen in the future. thanks, jim. there's some napkins in the glovebox. okay, but why would i need a napkin? you could have just told me a bump was coming.

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♪ it's not just a car, it's your daily treat. ♪ go ahead, spoil yourself. the es and es hybrid. experience amazing. while you said you didn't see any smoking gun on collusion, how close to the line is that in your mind? >> well, it certainly arouses the -- arouses your concern about what's going on. given russia, at least for my

money, is our primary adversary. they are not our friends. they are in to do us in. and i say as well, chuck, we have kind of a time honored custom in this country that we have one president and one administration at a time, and oncoming administrations don't get a head start. >> welcome back to "am joy." now that donald trump has landed back stateside after his nine country world tour, he's experiencing quite a bit of political turbulence. this week the russian investigation got its second wind or third or fourth. honestly it's easy to lose count at this point, when news broke that jared kushner had asked russia ambassador sergei kiy

kisliyak for a back channel. >> our own intelligence had collectively said this is a country that had infiltrated our election. did this show good judgment? >> well, you know, it was before the government was in place during the transition period what what i understand. any times you can open lines of communication with anyone whether they're good friends or not so good friends is a smart thing to do. >> congresswoman, in the time you have been in government, in the federal government and seen the transition of power from one party to the other in the white house, have you ever heard of a

back channel such as the one that we're hearing that jared kushner set up? >> absolutely not. and as it was just said, president obama was still the president of the united states. jared kushner was not even a government employee. he was a campaign person, adviser to trump. so for him to talk about setting up this back channel and using the russian facilities to do it, for me i never heard of that. most people never heard of that and it seems unseemly that he would be involved in that kind of relationship with the russians given everything else that we know about these relationships between trump and his allies and russia. so much attention, so much involvement, so many connections with the kremlin and with putin and all of this certainly

demands investigation and better understanding of what they're doing, why are they doing this, what is going on? >> i was on "meet the press" earlier, and was question was brought up whether this was a back channel, which is sort of the normal course of business when an administration is turning over, when kushner was having these talks, the trump administration had already decided it was going to hire jim mattis to be their secretary of defense. i want you to listen to this. go ahead. >> you were still the director of national intelligence in december. are these things you would have known? >> well, yes, they would ve. and just to reinforce john brennan's, former director of

central intelligence, his comments before the house committee select on intelligence, i have to say that without specifically affirming or confirming these conversations, even though they're still classified, but just from a theoretical standpoint my dash board warning light was clearly on and i think that was the case for all of us in the intelligence community. >> and among his comments, sometimes those going along a treasonous path may not even know it. it was said earlier on "meet the press" that perhaps the incoming administration did not want to do things in the open, they wanted to do things secretly so they couldn't be viewed by the intelligence community is that they didn't trust the obama administration not to undermine the trump administration. in your experience was either

john brennan, the former cia corre director or mr. clapper out to undermine the trump administration? >> no. as a matter of fact, i've been thinking while all of this is going on, that we have to trust our intelligence agencies to protect us and to be able to identify those who are placing us at risk, at harm. so we know the russians were hacking into the dnc and other elected officials. we knew about meetings, they knew about them. i am just a little built unerit that between the obama administration and our intelligence community that none of this came forward in a way that we should have been dealing with it even before the election took place, the leelection date. we knew enough. they knew enough. what happened to all of this

information? >> and there have been many analysts who said that the key to try to uncover and unravel -- at least one key to trying to understand what was going on here, why there were so many contacts and connections would be to see donald trump's tax returns, yet lindsey graham was on state of the union earlier today and this is what he said about whether or not the senate or house committee ought to subpoena those tax returns. take a listen. >> is it time to subpoena the president's tax returns, senator? >> we're not there yet but i do want to know where they got their money in 2008 and '09 when most people were struggling with the real estate investments. but back to comey. >> why is it too soon to take a look at those tax returns and use your power in congress to subpoena them? >> number one, i don't have any business dealing before me between the trump organization and russia that seems to be inappropriate. do i want to look and see if they are? yes. now we have the special counsel. i don't want to get in his lane.

>> congresswoman, what do you make of that response from lindsey graham? >> well, i think again they've dragged this out so long and i don't quite stand why there appears to be fear or reticence of moving aggressively to find out more about this president, his allies and his family given all that we have seen. i mean, we have been given enough information about their operations, about their connections, about their meetings to be able to delve further into these connections and what they all mean. me on my committee, we're going to deutsche bank because deutsche bank has been lending money to this president when no other money would touch him because of his bankruptcies, because of his debt. and we know they've done a review on what is known as mirror trading where they turn rubles into dollars in a special

way and that the deutsche bank and their corrupt traders are involved in this. he's very close to all of this. they've also done a review on hmm and his family. they have a lot of information about his business connections, about his taxes and we asked the chair of our committee, a republican, to investigate. he wouldn't do it. we've gone straight to deutsche bank, we're asking them to release certain information and we're asking mnuchin, our new treasure to look into all of this. we know that there's a lot of smoke and where there's a lot of smoke, there certainly is fire and we should be more aggressive in founding out about all of this. >> and lastly, congresswoman, on the subject of being more aggressive, you have openly talked about the fact that this president has put himself in a position where impeachment is on the table but your party, the democratic party, is very reluctant. the "new york times" had an article out about how hesitant democratic leadership in

particular are to call for donald trump's impeachment. in closing, why do you suppose that is? >> i don't know what the reticent is but i know the people -- i believe that this man has done enough for us to determine that we can connect the dots, that we can get the facts that will lead to impeachment. i believe there was collusion. i think we have enough information about the meetings, the about the lying about those meetings to help us to understand that something was going on. there was interaction there. and certainly i believe it was collusion, but if they just do their work and do their job, they will find out it was collusion and i believe this president should be impeached. i don't care what others say about it's too soon, we don't

know, we think. i think that they're letting the american public down by not delving deeper into what is going on withared kushner and this back channelling, about the lies and his failure to disclose he had had these meetings, the same thing with sessions, failure to disclose about the meetings. what more do we need? >> well, pulling no punches as usual, congresswoman maxine waters. thank you for being here. >> thank you, joy, so much. >> and check her out online @maxinewaters. >> and coming up the history of using diplomatic back channels. ♪ to move... with you... through you... ♪

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this morning i had a chance to be on nbc's "meet this press ou press"and i had this interesting conversation with kim strasel. let me set the scene for you, it's 2008, we're having an election, and candidate obama, he's not even president-elect, sends william miller over to iran and establish a back channel and let the iranians now should he win the election, they'll have friendlier terms. this is a private citizen going to a foreign country with a sworn enemy of the united states. is that bad judgment? is that a bad thing that happened? back channels are completely normal. theypel thtime. reagan did them. obama did them. everyone did. so i'm not quite sure why supposedly having at least the

president is now elected, setting up a back channel with the russians is somehow out of bounds. >> well, here's one key difference. in october, months before this latest meeting and it was one of 18 separate contacts that we now know of between the trump campaign and russia, our primary adversary in the world, the collective judgment of the 17 intelligence agencies was that russia had been taking active measures in our election. so in december the now president-elect decide he's going to name jim mattis of our secretary of defense but he doesn't open a back channel, he sends his real estate developer son-in-law or the real estate developer son-in-law decide to open a back channel -- and it isn't a back channel. you don't go to the adversary

country and say let's set something up inside of your secure facility, we set it up in your secure facility, which even takes them aback, the idea -- and thenf is a channel about opening up negotiations in terms of something about foreign policy, why are they also back channelling with a bank, a kremlin-connected russian bank and why is the reuters report saying part of the discussion was the possibility of opening up opportunities for financing for trump-related -- >> we don't know the answers to any of those questions -- >> that is not a back channel. that is not a back channel. >> you have to follow the money, you have to follow the meetings, the lies, the attempt ths to -- >> we don't have any of that information. >> the reality is that jared kushner and the

trump administration apparently trusted the russians more than the intelligence community. how can this not be suspicious. >> by the way, we can't forget that the intelligence services and also the defense department were being run by the obama administration. they had plenty of reason not to necessarily want the obama administration what they were doing. >> what did they want to hide? what did they want to talk about? why would you use russian -- >> why would you not want to have all of these people in these departments which they would go on to leak on a daily basis in the coming months -- >> in december the election was over. in this country we have a continuity of government. we hand over peacefully power from one party to another. are you telling me the now elected trump administration didn't trust john brennan, that the straight arrow guys were going to now work to undermine,

are they now seeing them as a dissident. that has never happened in theins. >> one of the most interesting pieces of know was the fisa court that said the obama administration had been activelyin gajed in-- engaged i unmasking the people's identities which they said brought up major concerns. >> who said that? >> the fisa court. >> do you know how difficult it is to get a fisa warrant against a person? >> i'm going to pause this conversation because i do have to go to break because i do have to pay for bills. >> we wanted to reset this conversation because i just wanted for our viewers who may have seen me depressed earlier this morning, after that exchange, i wanted to stand what kim strassel was talking about because i wanted familiar with what she said about supposed obama back channel to iran.

the on story i could find was a breitbart news article that claims during his first presidential campaign in 2008 barack obama used a secret back channel to iran to assure the mullahs he was a friend of the islamic republic and they would be happy with his policy, a dubious prospect to be sure and the secret channel was rob miller and who was ambassador to ukraine and supposedly ambassador miller confirmed the story to an anti-islamic figure on the right. it's a breitbart story. even if it were true or relevant, you're saying sending a former ambassador that worked in iran is equivalent to sending your real estate investor son-in-law to chat with the russians in their facility, which is not a back channel.

there's a new book out called "alter egos" and it talks about what a back channel actually is. and it talks about the then incoming obama administration setting up an actual back channel through oman to try to set up the preconditions to have an iran deal. this was done through the state department, through hillary clinton, the incoming secretary of state, in which you open up discussions with even an adversarial country outside the public so they could set the conditions up to have an iran deal. whether you agree with the iran deal or not. that is a back channel. going and meeting in the country with which you is dubious links in a secret facility that is there and is out of the reach of intelligence communities but not to correct miss strassel when she's not here but i wanted that

to be clear that is a back channel. thank you all for being here. i'm going to go to are first on this. we were talking about this off line, david. have i framed correctly the difference between this and a back channel? >> it's even more extreme than you put it. the point to the william miller story if it's true, which it's probably not, you sent somebody you never know who he was. the iran story, the united states was not talking to iran, the united states was objetalkio oman and oman talked to iran. and none of these people owed the rannians hundreds of millions of dollars, none of them accepted improper help from the iranians during the election. that's not the point to me. what was significant about that discussion was not that this defense is flimsy and preposterous, which it is. the question is look at how trump is changing the republican party.

this is the hill we're going to die on, to defend these actions? i joked on twitter the other day that by the end of next week we're going to be argue about whether treason is bad. and not to use search emotive or powerful word, that's a twitter joke, not accusing anybody of anything, but just to understand look where we are. look where we are. that this is a deep russian penetration of the u.s. government. today we have the news that the chancellor of germany has said the united states she regards as no longer reliable. that is supreme and first soviet russian goal has been to sever that leaning. i'm sorry th -- link. since 1991 managing the jgerman relationship is no longer whole. it takes enormous sensitively to manage that relationship, which

is crucial to peace in europe anstead putin could not have achieved more aexactly what he wanted if he'd been paying for it. >> you had putin go to europe and not reinvoke article 5, for him to have these obviously chilly relations with our allies in europe and chummy relationships with the saudi royals, the entire -- it is bizarre to me that the republican party that i grew up understanding, that my father adhered to now finds all of this to be okay and will defend it. >> right. you think of ronald reagan and everything that he worked for and his entire stance on foreign policy during his eight years of presidents and how republicans have lifted him up as this prime example and now the foreign policy outlook is so incredibly different. it was on the front page right after donald trump said germans are very bad, very bad.

just like you mentioned, the germans have this tendency to wander. it's a very delicate relationship right into the hands of putin of which they have many, many gas contracts as well, very valuable. putin is really influential the tide of political philosophy in eastern europe and the potential for that kind of authoritarian ideology to proliferate in is a very tender balance. the moral credibility is going to be so damaged that they lose ankind of political capital in getting the legislation passed that they want. >> at the heart of this charge, of this accusation on the other side is that one couldn't trust the outgoing administration because they are democrats and that essentially we are not one country. we're two countries in which there's a revolution every four years and a new regime takes power and so john brennan and clapper, two of the straightest arrows in the world are a threat

to the administration just because the ex-administration is a democrat. >> it's supposed to be one government at a time, peaceful transition of power and you're learning these stories now, which is questionable. why is a civilian meeting with an ambassador who, by the way, is known to be a russian spy, who cultivates spies. there's all these questions that come about this yet the republicans are picking party over country. and it's for what? donald trump? >> for somebody they didn't even want and fundamentally rejected. this is not a left-right issue. this is a question of america's sovereignty period and it is hard for me to understand how something as auguste as "the wall street journal" would want to come down on the other side of this. anyway, thank you very much for being here. coming up, we'll take a closer look at the man some believe is really running our country,

steve bannon. stay with us. break through your allergies.

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we're at the very beginning stages of a very brutal and bloody conflict. we are in an outright war against jihadist, islamic fascism and this war is metastasizing far quicker than the government can stand it. >> steve bannon has come a long way from these comments. but since his influence has

appeared to have waned and the fact that he was predicted as trump's puppet master and snl even called him the grim reaper, here he is surrounded by saudi officials and looking quite awkward. thank you all for being here. i want to play one more clip from this "frontline" documentary about what unites steve bann and donald trump. >> so breitbart, palin, trump, all are sort of anti-establishment figures and i think that appeals to bannon. it more about destroying enemies. that's where he and trump i think really meet. >> david, does steve bannon view

donald trump as more of a comrade are more as sort of clay that he can mold for he is own use and ambition? >> i think a conduit would be a good way to put it. ben is right that they have the same personality in terms of destruction of enemies being a large part of their personal motivation, but steve bannon has an ideology which now trump does. trump is totally situational, he can blast them and go get a medal from the king and a hold a golden orb and it's all fine by him. bannon realizes it want his idea to run off to saudi arabia on the first trip. the bannon does believe there is a clash of civilizations while also wanting to disrupt the elites here in the united states, whether it's cultural, media, political elites. one thing that the documentary played down was that fact that

he turned breitbart, which was a conservative outlet to an alright. they played that down. >> they did. >> so there's a lot going on within steve bannon. >> they also played down the extent the entity that he took from bannon and i think they played that down. i want to play one more clip. this is to your point of the chaos theory of bannon that they were really crystallized around the travel ban. >> they wanted to rush this through and get it out there and take a shock-and-awe approach to the new raltravel policy. >> that was in the eyes of bannon a way to disrupt, they

knew that the protests would come. they knew the media would erupt. it's what they wanted. >> so i'll ask you sort of the same question, do you get the sense that steve bannon views american muslims as merely sort of props in this play that he's created or do you think he has a genuine firm that american muslims are destroying the country or are at war with the country? >> i wouldn't have known how to answer except i saw his face when he was in saudi arabia. i do think that he is terrified. but this moment right now is really a shot for him to redeem himself for trump. there were lots of rumors a couple months ago that he is

being sidelined and now that trump is doing the shake-up, he's sort of back in the fold and back in the mix. i think what bannon needs to understand is we're done with the spinning and the misdirection and misinformation. this is a real investigation and we need facts not more -- >> one of the things we were going to talk about is there is this weird way in which the saudis in a way mirror the world view of bannon and trump, particularly in the way that they view women and view melania as sort of portraying almost -- they're calling it a kind of feminism on the right but it's really what the saudis want to see, a pretty face, quiet, other than the hand slaps doesn't really speak up. >> exactly, exactly. i would say fake feminism but really what melania does for the saudis because she was such a huge hit over there. everyone loved her, everyone

loved her fashion choices and how she was speaking through her stella mccarthy black jumpsuit. >> you have the unique distinction of having been in one of the steve bannon documentaries. what was that like? >> i was a talking head in "generation zero." i felt we were talking very much at cross purposes. that is i was talking about -- i had written a big history of 1970s and i was talking about the events of that period and bannon was interested in doing a cultural indime of his own baby boom johnson racial. of course the decision makers of the 1970s were not baby boomers. but what i found him intellectually ambitious, intellectually curious.

i think one of the things that i would one protest about or caution against that documentary. we all need to believe that the world is an orderly and basically safe place. it's very common when we write about white houses to construct narratives of good aides and bad aides and that's the battle. for a while jared kushner was the epitome of the good aide because he had the most people spinning for him. it is not going to make a difference if steve bannon steps down or jared kushner steps out, though i don't think jared kushner will. what is driving the administration more than most is the character of the president. >> and yet, keyirsten, and the bannon wing of the good age/bad wing is interesting.

he he's close with rebecca mercer. she invested in breitbart news, whis behind kellyne conway by the way, she worked on the transition team, obviously kellyanne conway is with her. so there is a wing of them. can you see that little constellation there that revolve around bannon. if he were to go, the sebastian gorka and others he brought from breitbart, if he were to go, with the others go with him? >> not necessarily. he's injected this populism and nationalism, to weight those who consider themselves more globalists and so many on the right villainize. that is the difficult thing because donald trump sees steve bannon's messaging at the end of the campaign really worked to energize a base of him and to give him admiration which obviously we know that he loves. what is very concerning to me is

bannon focuses so much on otherizing, even groups within the gop and that's really scary. you think long-term strategy, how are begoiwe going to engageg voters and this destruction he promotes and otherizing and naming and shaming enemies and that's why i'm so heart broken about this. >> he does seem driven by defeating enemies more than building a better country. >> it's not what this country needs right now. >> he divisive when he was at breitbart, it was all about trying to take dpaul ryan. and now he's in there and trump has that style, has that personality. it's about your enemy. the press is the enemy, his enemies are the enemies of. american public. that's where they have a mind meld and he grants this ideological superstructure to trump's personality.

>> there are things in that breitbart tool kit if repurposed could be useful. one of the beneficial messages was republicans needed a more middle class economic message. that content, that's valuable and it shouldn't be lost. >> it not about content. it's about emotion. >> and it's about the character of the president of the united states and i would just quote you to yourself. >> coming up, fighting racism in the final frontier. george takei joins me to talk about stars wars. stay right there.

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♪ ♪ i'm dr. kelsey mcneely and some day you might be calling me an energy farmer. ♪ energy lives here. the fbi is now working with police in portland, oregon to investigate a racially charged stabbing attack that happened on a light rail train. police say two men were fatally stabbed and another critically injured friday when they intervened to stop a man yelling

anti-muslim hate speech. the suspect was targeted two young women, one of whom was wearing a hijab. the incident cam just hours before ramadan was set to begin friday at s according to reports, christian is a self-professed nazi sympathizer. this comes less than a week after maryland police say richard collins, a black college student was fatally stabbed by a white college student. urbanski has been charged with first and second degree murder and the justice department is investigating it as a possible hate crime. meanwhile on tuesday, collins

was scheduled to garage way from buoy state university. in his place, his father walked across the stage and accepted the diploma his son had earned. and up next, racist fans have a problem with the new ""star trek" series. they do. george takei weighs in after the break. so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ ♪

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captain, where are we going? >> we have no map and you can't set a course without a star. >> it's hard to imagine you've served under me for seven years. commander bernan, i think it is time about we talked about you having your own command. tu to transport. >> if you're a fan of "a.m. skrjoy" you know i am a huge trekkie.

captain kirk for life. coming this fall the later eteration of "star trek discovery" featus michelle yeough as captain and the first officer, awesome, right? well, some people not so happy as we are here on "a.m. joy." they've gone so far as to call it white genocide in space. seriously, joining me, these shenanigans is actor and activist george takei. >> live long and prosper. >> live long and press per, my friend. first of all, george, we live in a time with so much madness going on. we talked in a break before the segment or in the little mini segment of actual hate crimes, racist hate crimes taking place around the country, and yet people are finding the time to hate on "star trek" for having diversity. what? >> well, you know, today in this

society, we have alien life forms that we call scrolls and these scrolls carry on without knowing what they're talking about and knowing even less about the history of what they're talking about and some of these trolls go on to be presidents of nations. >> george, you know, for those few people, if you're watching the show, i hope you are and the original "star trek" is still the best even though i'll see the new film. having you as mr. sulu on the set, having lieutenant ohoura as a part of that cast wasn't diversity kind of a point? >> well, we had a guiding acronym idic, which institute for infinite diversity and infinite combinations and boldly went where we hadn't gone before because we were curious about what's out there.

when you go out into space you're going to have even greater diversity, so diversity was the keynote. these so-called trolls haven't seen a single episode of the new series, because it hasn't been aired. so there you are, on one count. they have never seen what they're talking about, and they don't know the history of "star trek," that as you said, gene roddenbury created this with the idea of finding strength in our diversity. and also the delight of life in diversity, and so they don't know what they're talking about, and they don't know the history of "star trek." >> you know, you come from a family, george, that was subjected to the internment of japanese-americans, of american citizens of loyal americans because of fear, because of fear of another group of people because of who they are, because of their ethnicity. does it depress you that in 2017 we still have people who are so frightened of diversity, so frightened of the idea of not

having every single character in a film or a tv series be white, and white and male and having the president always have to be white and male, does that depress you? >> we've made tremendous progress from the time that i was 5 years old, when soldiers came to our home simply because we happened to look like the people that bombed pearl harbor. we're americans. my grandparents were immigrants that came here. my mother was born in sacramento, my father was a san franciscan and my brother and sister and i were born in los angeles but we looked like the other and there wasn't a single elected official that stood up and spoke for us but when donald trump tried to characterize muslims as the "other" and wrote two executive orders, massive numbers of americans rushed to the airports to protest that, and the deputy attorney general

of the united states sally yates, refused to defend that executive order. so we have made progress. we still haven't made progress in terms of the president. the president was totally ignorant of the history of internment here. i invited donald trump to come see "allegiance" that we did on that subject. he never came. so he's ignorant of that chapter of american history, and these people that are claiming that "star trek" is racist genocide or whatever they're calling, white genocide, don't know what they're talking about. they're equal to the president of the united states. i think the president is as foolish and as uninformed and as ignorant as these trolls are. >> well, george takei, you are wonderful. just talking to you makes me happy >> i think you are. >> oh, thank you.

i wish you a wonderful, happy memorial day weekend. it's always a treat to talk to you. thank you so much. >> it's always such a treat to be on the air and even better, watching you every morning. >> live long and prosper, my friend. take care. >> thank you. >> okay. if you are in new york, be sure to catch george's current show pacific overtures, a musical at the nonprofit classic stage company in east village running through june 18th. you'll probably see me because i'll be there for sure. join us next weekend for more" a.m. joy." in the meantime keep it right here on msnbc. sensimist allergy relief instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist experience you'll barely feel. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one.

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