played a part of peace at camp david and witnessed the unraveling of iran. jimmy carter's national security adviser. obviously zbigniew brzezinski was part of the extended family of this network. our condolences with our colleague and friend, mika, and the entire family. useful for all of us, this coming three-day weekend is about something, it's about taking a moment and remembering as they did with the annual placement of the flags at arlington today, remembering those who have died in service to their country just as volunteers continue to serve in uniform around the globe tonight. we thank them. we thank you for being here with us. while wishing you a safe and happy holiday weekend, good night from new york. this sunday, the growing russia investigation. new reports that president trump's son-in-law, jared kushner, tried to set up bac

back-channel communications with russia to avoid u.s. monitoring. the reaction, former deputy cia chief john mclaughlin. >> if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we'd consider it espionage. >> the trump administration responds. but not in front of cameras. >> we're not going to comment on jare we're just not going to comment. >> this after former cia chief john brennan testifies that russia can lure people unwittingly into treason. >> frequently individuals who go along a treasonous path do not even realize they're on that path until it gets to be a bit too late. >> my guests this morning, chairman of the senate foreign relations committee, bob corker. former director of national intelligence, jachmes clapper. and homeland security chief john kelly. and that congressional race in montana, the republican won. the democrat closed the gap. which party has reason to celebrate? joining me for insight and analysis are msnbc's joy reid. kimberly strassel, columnist for the "wall street journal."

msnbc political analyst charlie sykes. and amy walter of the cook political report. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> good sunday on this me mourl memorial day weekend. the president came home late last night from his first overseas trip in russia. when he did, the russia investigation got much closer to home as well. so much closer in fact it now involves the son-in-law jared kushner. president trump faces a growing scandal that threatens to overshadow his agenda and perhaps his entire psidency. just consider what has happened in just the last week. the woest wo"washington post" reports that mr. trump had asked his chief of staff to push back on the russia investigations. john brennan testifies he saw intelligence revealing contacts

between russian officials and trump campaign members he thought deserved investigation. thursday, nbc reports that kushner is now under fbi scrutiny in the russia investigation, though he is not a target. late friday night, the "washington post" bombshell, that kushner and russia's ambassador to the united states discussed setting up a secret back-door channel using russian communication facilities. so that their preinauguration discussions would not be picked up by u.s. monitoring. the last item was so explosive the trump administration went out of the way yesterday to field reporters' questions off camera even if they didn't actually answer them. >> we're not going to comment on jared. we're just not going to comment. >> national security adviser h.r. mcmaster did try to defend kushner without saying his name. >> generally speaking about back channel communications, what that i allows you to do is communicate in a discrete manner. >> it's very concerning they wanted to have these conversations at russian diplomatic facilities using russian phone lines.

that shows that they were really trying to conceal this from the obama administration and from u.s. intelligence. >> the reactions to the kushner story include simple shock from the intelligence community. >> i can't keep out of my mind the thought that if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we would consider it espionage. >> reuters is also reporting that kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the russian ambassador. including two phone calls before the election. sometime between april and november. kushner's attorney did not deny the story but responded this way. "mr. kushner participated in thousands of calls in this time period. he has no recollection of the calls as described." on thursday, nbc news reported that kushner is under fbi scrutiny. though not a subject of the investigation like former trump aides paul manafort and michael flynn. also this week former cia director john brennan publicly acknowledged for the first time his concern that trump campaign associates wittingly or unwittingly may have been cooperating with russian operatives.

though he says he saw no proof of collusion. . >> i saw information and intelligence that was worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such cooperation of collusion was taking place. >> now the senate intelligence committee asked mr. trump's political organization to gather and produce all documents, e-mails and phone records going back to his campaign's launch in june 2015. mr. kushner was also in charge of the campaign's data operation. >> we knew kplaexactly where ou million voters we were needed in the key swing states. jared was a critical leader to help make this all happen. >> the president will not be able to avoid questions as he did jovr seas beginning with his own party in congress many of whom were already losing confidence in his ability to lead. >> i think we have a situation on our hands where every few days there's a new revelation. >> idea that congress continues to do nothing about russia's int interference in our election is

completely unacceptable. i'm going to do everything we can to make sure we sanction russia for interfering in our election. >> former house speaker john boehner said foreign policy aside, everything else he's done has been a complete disaster. joining me now, republican senator and chairman of the foreign relations, bob corker of tennessee. senator, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> chuck, good to be with you. >> let me start with the allegations involving jared kushner and the meetings he had where either he suggested or somebody suggested that a back channel be put together in some form, possibly using russian facilities. can you think of any good reason to do something like that in a transition period between one presidency over another? >> look, i -- i think jared has said that he's more than willing to answer any and all questions. they reached out to us yesterday to make sure that we knew that was the case and i'm sure he's willing to do so.

i look at what the reports have said about asking questions of him. it seems to me that he's -- based on just the reporting that you and others are making, he's not a sergeant target. i think i would just wait. sounds like he's more than glad to talk about all of these things. instead of getting wrapped up into a lot of hyperbole as these things can sometimes do, i think talking with him directly and getting him to answer any and all questions as he said he would do would probably be the prudent course of action. >> i understand that, but can you think of any good reason -- let's take, as you knows, the "washington post" bombshell and clearly the white house hasn't said much publicly. they seem to be talking anonymously to t"the new york times" and implied, well, the meeting, wasn't clear who suggested a back channel and that it was going to involve mike flynn and syria. here's what i don't understand. why would you -- why would anybody want to set up something

like that if it was about syria and not let the pentagon know about it? >> yeah, i have no idea. again, i think it's best to talk directly with these people. i know that from a military standpoint, obviously we have ways of deacon fliconflicting w russia on things relative to syria. again, chuck, because i just don't know, i mean, these things are -- these sources are not people who are willing to give their names, it's just hard to respond to things like this, that, again, no names attached, no dates attached. look, let's let this unfold and as i've spent a lot of time with jared. he was over just recently in a bipartisan way briefing us on the upcoming trip. they achieved all of their goals. he seems to me to be a very open person and, again, i'd let him speak for himself when the time is right on all these issues and at that time, we can actually render judgment on the reality of what did or didn't take place. >> the time is right.

i guess i'm a little concerned, do you not have a sense of urgency about this? this is -- let's think about the time period here. you just had 17 intelligence agencies report that russia interfered with this election. these interactions in the month of december, senator corker, you would think would trouble many people if they thought that, geez, there's been accusations that maybe they were trying to -- the russians were trying to assist one campaign or the other then to have these meetings and then to have them talk about the idea of avoiding american eavesdropping, i guess, if you want to call it that. none of this troubles you? i mean, you want to wait till it unfolds? >> no, no, no. no, no, no, no chuck. >> okay. >> these recent reports is what i'm talking about. i mean, again, as i understand it, jared kushner is more than glad to talk about all of these things. as it relates to the interference in the election, no question. and as you know, we've been allowing for a short period of

time for secretary of state tillerson to see if he can change the trajectory in syria, but this next work period, we very much, unless there's some major change in russia's actions in syria, plan to double down on sanctions with russia. so absolutely not. couldn't agree more with that. i'm not disagreeing that they interfered with our elections, we need to do something about that. if you're trying to tie me into that, no, no, no, i agree 100%. >> i'm not trying to tie you into knots but you just connected sanctions to the behavior in syria. should russia be punished for election interference, period? >> they should and sometimes, chuck, what we want to do is make sure that we're having a good outcome for our nation and so with can act with passion over an issue. on the other hand, if we know that there are some negotiations taking place when our relationship with russia is at the lowest point ever since 1991

for good reason, if there are some negotiations taking place relative to that, does it make some sense to give the secretary of state some time to see where that goes? there are going to be sanctions against russia, codifying of existing sanctions on ukraine and crimea. that is going it happen but i think my job and many people in the foreign relations community in general is to make sure we have good jot comeoutcomes. so, look, russia is going to be punished for what it did in interfering in our elections. there's an investigation that's under way. i talk each week multiple times with senator burr and senator warner as to how that is unfolding. but, again, to give a diplomat, everybody's going nuts over the 1% issue that we spend on diplomacy and aid. we care about diplomacy in our country. we want to make sure that it works. we're going to give it every opportunity.

to wait a few weeks at the request of the secretary of state to see if he can change things in syria seems to me to be an appropriate thing to do. that's what we've done, but next work period we plan to take it up. >> i was just going to say, you said a few weeks. it's been four months since they've tannin taken office. in your opinion, is it time to decide the russians aren't going to change their behavior in syria? >> we'll see. i read the intelligence on wednesday morning. it doesn't seem to me that they've changed their behavior in any way. so i thinke're going to moving on with this. i know the banking committee plans to do the same but again, chuck, i don't -- i don't know what you're getting at here. obviously, yes, it has been six months, so does waiting two or three weeks for the secretary of state to see if he can negotiate a change, does that affect our ability to focus on what they did on the elections? i don't think so. and by the way, we're not going to wait for the senate investigation, but there is an

investigation under way in the intel community. typically, you wait until those things are complete before you take action. in this case, we're probably going to go ahead just because of the clambering for this to occur. rightly so. we're going to take up sanctions this next work period. >> let me ask you a question -- >> in the event -- >> speaking of your next work period, john mccain made this interesting analysis of all the things you guys got to get done in the senate before labor day. here's the reality. we've got 11 weeks between now and the end of september. we got repeal of obamacare, we're talking about tax reform, talking about a defense bill, talking about there's about three other things, a looming debt limit. how do you pack all that in? so far i've seen no strategy for doing so, seeing no plan for doing so." there seems to be, he's not alone but he's on the record, there seems to be a lot of concern among your colleagues that you have no idea how many of these things are going to get done in the next three months.

>> well, it's obvious that not all of these things are going to get donen the next three months. there's a lot to do. we're right now meeting on health care. the meetings have been, i will say, very substantive. i would have liked for them to be more in the public so you're bringing the public along. there seems to be some consolidation beginning to take place on tax reform. had a great discussion this week with fred smith at fedex who's working with many business associates. there seems to be something gelling there, but no, we've got a lot to do. there's no question and we're going to do the best that we can but, you know, we have a full two-year congressional cycle here to get many of those things done and, again, i think we're moving along in a thoughtful way with way too much work, you're right, to get done. a lot of people to get confirmed nomination wise. spending issues, a lot to get done. that's -- it's a privilege to serve in the senate to try to accomplish those things. >> fair enough. >> i'll move along as quickly as

we can. >> all right, senator. i'm going it leave it there. got a busy show this morning. senator bob corker, thanks for coming on, sharing your view, sir. >> thank you. >> with you got it. earlier this morning i spoke with homeland security secretary john kelly and began by asking him about the jared kushner news. >> i know jared. he's a great guy, decent guy. his number-one interest really is the nation. so, you know, there's a lot of different ways to communicate back channel, you know, publicly, with other countries. i don't see any big issue here relative to -- relative to jared. >> even with an adversary -- somebody that was at the time our own intelligence community had collectively said this was a country that infiltrated our election. did this show good judgment? >> well, you know, it was before the government was in place during the transition period i think from what i understand and i think any time you can

open lines of communication with anyone, whether they're good friends or not so good friends, is a smart thing to do. >> had you ever in your lifetime of government service both in the military and outside of it, had you ever used another government's communications facility though, the idea of sort of going around american communications? >> well, no, but i didn't have to. i mean, in my previous life, we wouldn't do that kind of thing, but, you know,better way to put it, not politics but the kind of interaction here in washington, there's a lot of ways to communicate with people. >> intelligence sharing is something that's extraordinarily important to your job. >> uh-huh. >> if you get to the point where you now have our own intelligence community not very comfortable with how this administration is dealing with intelligence, how problematic is that for you?

>> for me, and again, i don't necessarily accept this, you know, the issue of -- the issues related to intelligence being a problem right now, but for me, i mean, i interact with my counterparts overseas all the time. i rely on all of the intelligence community to make the decisions that i make. it's not an issue for me for sure. >> did you -- i want to just one more time going back to the russia thing, is this any way -- are you concerned if there is a back channel over here that it is actually going to disrupt our ability to know what the russians are up to? >> just because you have a back channel if, indeed, that's what jared was after, doesn't mean that he then keeps everything secret. i mean, he shares that, but the back channel, as i understand it, of course, every administration has had it all the way -- forever. back-channel communications with people are ways to communicate with people, again, not in front

of the, you know, press as an example, but that information is, you know, not necessarily kept secret from the are rest of the government. >> does jared kushner have the same level of security clearance that you do? >> i don't know. >> on intelligence front? is that something you should know? >> not necessarily. everything we do in the security world, classification world, of course, before i would start talking to anyone, i would make sure they had the requisite security clearances. i'm cleared for top-secret compartmented fbi, that kind of thing. >> is jared the same kind of thing? >> i don't know but if i had to talk to him or anyone else at the intelligence that i'm briefed in, i would make sure they had that clearance before i talked to them. >> i got to ask you about a comment you made on friday. here it is. i'm going it get you to explain. >> i was telling steve on the way in here, if he knew what i knew about terrorism, he'd never leave the house in the morning.

>> really. >> i have to admit, it was a little jarring. i don't know if you meant it tongue in cheek or not. what do you mean by that? >> there are incredible plots against the united states -- terrorism plots against the united states. the really, really good news is we have incredible men and women that are protecting us every day. you know, the away game, overseas, deparent of defense, cia, nsa, the home game fought by dhs, local law enforcement, fbi, every single day there are people plotting to try to hurt us from a terrorism point of view and every single day, we beat them. the men and women of law enforcement, again, i say dhs, fbi, dod, we beat them every day, but we have to be perfect. they just have to be lucky once. >> it's interesting to me that you seemed to say that you wouldn't sleep at night.

i mean, how serious -- if we had a threat level the way the uk has it, would we be at the highest level? >> well, we have no specific threats right now, otherwise we'd be at a higher level. >> okay. >> there's always a threat. we just are vigilant every day. again, the 99.9% of americans can sleep safe in their homes at night. their children are protected. they are protected. but it is a relentless mission of our law enforcement intelligence, military people, to protect america. >> did british prime minister theresa may have a point when she complained to the united states about leaks? >> she did. >> she did? it did come from our side? >> i don't know where the leak came from, but i will tell you this as i always do in cases like this, i immediately called my counterpart in uk and after offering my condolences about the attack, unbelievably the

third time in 120 days i've done that. i've called the minister and offered my condolences. she immediately brought this topic up and if it came from the united states, it's totally unacceptable. and i don't know why people do these kind of things but it's borderline, if not over the -- over the line of treason. >> you believe it's treason to leak some of the stuff, you believe that's treason? >> i do believe it is. i believe when you leak the kind of information that seems to be routinely leaked, the high, high level of classification, you are telling me -- >> and what was leaked on this manchester bombing you believe maybe even meets, say, treason? >> i think it -- darn close to treason. >> mr. secretary, i'm running out of time. i have to leave it there. coming up, how unusual is it for and coming white house to attempt to arrange a back channel with a foreign government to elude u.s.

monitoring? i'll ask my next guest, former director of national intelligence, james clapper. but first, throughout the show, as we go to break on this memorial day weekend, we pause to honor our fallen men and women in uniform since last memorial day. go on break, we h men and women in uniform on this memorial day. there's nothing traditional about my small business so when it comes to technology, i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ ♪

brtry new flonase sensimists. allergy relief instead of allergy pills. it delivers a gentle mist experience to help block six key inflammatory substances. most allergy pills only block one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. there's nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your memorial day weekend is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. find great deals now at booking.com. booking.yeah!

welcome back. as questions continue to swirl about the transition team's communications with russia, walk through the timeline of specifically when the events took place, we've learned more from the month of december of 2016, it's on the 1st or 2nd jared kushner or mike flynn met with russian ambassador sergey kislyak to reportedly discuss setting up a system of back-channel communications between trump transition and the kremlin. for what reason, that's in

dispute. later in december, kushner meets with sergey gorkof, head of a sanctioned russian state-owned bank. the bank was sanctioned. not the individual. december 29th, calls take place between flynn and kislyak allegedly to discuss the new sanctions the obama administration issued against russia that day. those sanctions were in response to russian interference in the election. joining me now, former director of national intelligence, james clapper. mr. clapper, welcome back to the show. >> thanks, chuck. >> before i get into the rest of the story, you just heard secretary kelly talk about the leaks that took place. we know the uk complained about the manchester bombing. he referred to some of these leaks that they sort of walk up to the line of treason. some might say, hey, they're just leaking out something that they think the public should know. where do you draw that line? >> well i think, first of all, i have to say that leaks are damaging. they're corrosive. they risk compromising sources, methods and trade craft. as we've seen recently, they damage relationships with

crucial partners. you know, uk and israel come to mind. and this is particularly serious now because in my experience, 50-plus years in intelligence, i know over time when we depended more on friends and allies for sharing information and intelligence, particularly with respect to terrorism, so i know secretary kelly takes -- takes this quite seriously and he should. you know, legal definition of what's treason, i'll leave that to the lawyers, but just from a practitioner standpoint in the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> all right. let me go through the issue that has been the bombshell this weekend. this issue that jared kushner at the time, private citizen, yes, a private adviser at the time to the presidenlenelect, was havin meetings with the ambassador to russia, sergey slyak an they hid these meetings from public eye. we also learned that he met with the head of a sanctioned russian bank.

you were still the director of national intelligence in december. are these things you would have known? >> well, yes, they would have, and just to reinforce john brennan's -- former director of central intelligence a.g., his comments before the house firm -- i have to say without specific -- specifically affirming or confirming these conversations since even though they're in the realm, they're still classified, but just from a theoretical standpoint, i will tell you that my dashboard warning light was clearly on and i think that was the case with all us in the intelligence community. very concerned about the nature of these approaches to the russians. if you put that in context with everything else we knew the russians were doing to interfere with the election, and just the

historical practices of the russians who typically almost genetically driven to co-opt, penetrate, gain favor, whatever, which is a typical russian -- typical russian technique. so we were concerned. >> and this is what's likely triggered the fbi's now extra attention to jared kushner that we've been reporting thereat they believe he has more information. they're saying he's not a target. it would have been intelligence like this that would have triggered it? >> i think so. i think john alluded to his concerns that the fbi is the proper channel. i have to say at the time i left

i did not see any smoking gun evidence of collusion, but it certainly was appropriate for -- given all the signs, certainly appropriate for the fbi to -- necessary for the fbi to investigate. >> sergey kislyak, does the u.s. believe he's basically an agent of the fsb, the old kgb? >> given the fact he oversees a very aggressive intelligence operation in this country, the russians have more intelligence operatives than any other nation as are represented in this country, still even after we got rid of 35 of them. so to suggest that he is somehow separate or oblivious to that is a bit much. >> why didn't we kick him out? why didn't he specifically get sanctioned? if he basically is vwed not as the ambassador to a country, not as a diplomat, but basically the american head of an intelligence agency, sort of what you just described? >> i'm reflecting an intelligence perspective.

intelligence people are paid to be suspicious and, of course, that -- whether to expel people or declare them png is at least in the last administration was an interagency determination. and so what we did do is get at 35 of the more notorious intelligence operatives and ask them to leave quickly. >> one of the caveats in the "washington post" bombshell story was the russians frequently will do misinformation. even in intel channels. how often does that happen? how likely is it in this case? >> it happens a lot. it happens overtly and covertly and certainly that was one of the tools that the russians used in the run-up to our election was fake news, misinformation, paying trolls to insert phony information in social media. so this is a standard practice

of the russians and the soviets before them. >> if jared kushner's meeting was somebody that you referred to as oversees a large intelligence operation, and while you said you didn't see any smoking gun on collusion, how close to the line is that, in your mind? >> well, it certainly arouses the -- arouses your concern about what's going on. given, you know, russia, at least for my money, is our primary adversary. they are not our friends. they are in to do us in. and i say as well, chuck, you we have kind of a time-honored custom in this country that we have one president, one administration at a time. and on swrn cocoming administra don't get a head start before the end of the current president's income bansy. >> what would you like to see? what's the appropriate action now that you would like to see take place against russia?

is sanctions enough at this point? >> well, i think -- really not for me to say what happens now. i think certainly sanctions are a compelling, powerful weapon. the russians don't like them. and i think what the last administration -- the actions the last administration took, the sctions and other actions on the 29th of december, i always thought of as a first step and i haven't seen any change in the russian behavior anywhere that would merit a relaxation, and if anything, an increase in those sanctions. as we've learned more about -- more has become public about what they're going to do. and as i said at the senator graham's subcommittee hearing, l the 8th of may, they are only emboldened. they're going to continue to

interfere in our political process. to me, that's the big story here in what american people should be concerned about. >> james clapper,vy to leave it there. former director of national intelligence. somebody i think people are getting used to. you're almost going to be referred to as a member of congress. we see you up there -- >> oh, i hope not. >> yes. anyway. mr. clapper. thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> thank, chuck. when we come back, much more on the russia investigation. plus, republican gianforte who infamously body slammed a reporter won that congressional race in nth mmontana. the democrats closed the gap. which party hz more reason to smile this weekend? first, i told you before our last break, we continue to honor those who have fallen since last memorial day. ♪

whether you're after supreme performance... advanced intelligence... or breathtaking style... there's a c-class just for you. decisions, decisions, decisions. lease the c300 sedan for $399 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing. we rbut we are not victims.ack. we are survivors. we are survivors. we are survivors. and now we take brilinta. for people who've been hospitalized for a heart attack. we take brilinta with a baby aspirin. no more than one hundred milligrams... ...as it affects how well brilinta works. brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. in a clinical study brilinta worked better than plavix®. brilinta reduced the chance of another heart attack. or dying from one. don't stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor,... ...since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent,...

...heart attack, stroke, and even death. brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily,... ...or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers,... ...a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. slow heart rhythm has been reported. tell your doctor about bleeding,... ...new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. if you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor about brilinta. my heart is worth brilinta. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca... ...may be able to he.

welcome back. panel is here. charlie sykes. longtime wisconsin radio guy and msnbc political analyst. amy walter of the cook political report. joy reid, host of "a.m. joy" on msnbc and kimberly strassel, columnist for the "wall street journal." the president is tweeting this morning. let's get people up to speed on this. motte specif not specific what he's referring to. you'll get an idea. starts with "my opinion many of

the leaks coming out of the white house are fabricated lies made up by the fake news media." "whenever you say sources say in the fake news media and don't mention names, it's possible the sources don't exist but are made up by fake news writers. fake news is the enemy." okay, amy walter. it is now -- there's not a specific. we don't want to assume he's referring to a specific story. likely it's to what is going on with his son-in-law. >> there's no doubt. look, i think what we're learning is we don't know that there's a fire but there is a whole lot of smoke and that cloud is blocking everything. and i think if you're the president right now trying to get back on course, you thought that going overseas, having a foreign trip, nine days, this was going to reset. we were going to be talking about that trip today. we're not talking at all about the nine days he spent overseas. we're talking about what's been happening here. we're going to continue to talk about it. i think the most important thing -- one of the most important things you talked about with senator corker is the fact this black cloud is also blocking out what he needs to

reset, what republicans need to see rhe reset, getting points on the board, something happen legislatively. they have a republican house and senate and white house and nothing is moving. one thing that has passed, the house health care bill, not particularly popular. it's stuck in legislative purgatory now in the senate. all those other things, tax reform, the budget, they're not going anywhere, either. if you're a member thinking about running for re-election in 2018, you're not just worried about the russia piece, but what are you going to talk about web when you go home over the next recess about what you've actually been able to accomplish? >> by the way, charlie sykes, we've been hearing all weekend long we get our weekly, hey, there's going to be a staff shakeup story. i feel like it's weekly and it doesn't happen. there has been all sorts of chatter, the president is going to have somebody vetting his tweets. well, i think they've gotten to him in this case. he used the phrase "it is my opinion" before putting all of that out about fabricated lies. we did a cursory search.

he's never used that phrase or "i think" in his tweets before so far going back as president. >> you might almost think these were low-energy tweets from the president. but it does look like, you know, we know the president has lawyered up. are the lawyers now going to looking at this tweets? look, the nightmare for the white house, this is not an alignment of the plants, it's a collision of the planets. you have the fily, youave the finances, we're not talking talking about drip, drip, drip, anymore. it's a torrent. it's going to be exponentially raised by the fact now it's jared kushner and listening to the folks you had on earlier, the reluctance of republicans or members of the administration to criticize jared kushner because this is family. this is one of the reasons why you avoid nepotism generally in business and politics because he's the one guy you cannot fire. he's so close to the president. this raises the threat level exponentially. >> kim? >> i think we are having a discussion that is absolutely

divorced from reality this week. it is astonishing. let me set the scene for you. it's 2008. we're having an election and candidate obama, he's not even president-elect, sends william miller over to iran to establish a back channel and let the iranians know that should he win the election, they will have friendlier terms. okay. so this is a private citizen going to foreign soil. obviously in order to evade u.s. intelligence monostoitoring and establishing a back channel. with a sworn enemy of the united states who was actively disrupting our efforts of the military in the middle east. so is that bad judgment? is that a bad thing that happened? back channels are completely normal. they happen all the time. reagan did them. obama did them. everyone did. so i'm n sure wh obviously the president is now elected, setting up a back channel with the russians is somehow out of bounds. >> well, here's one key difference.

in october, months before this latest meeting, and it was 1 of 18 separate contacts that we now know of between the trump campaignrussia, our primary adversary in the world -- >> also a superpower. >> in october the collective judgment of the 17 intelligence agencies is russia had been taking active measures to interfere on our elections. quite a difference, we don't think iran was doing that. we know thast that was happening in october. so in december the now president-elect decides he's going to name james mattis to be his secretary of defense but he doesn't open a back channel. he sends his real estate developer son-in-law, supposedly, or the real estate developer son-in-law decides to open this back channel -- it's not a back channel. this isn't how it works. you don't go to the adversary country and say let's set something up inside your secure facility in your embassy to evade our intelligence services, sorry, we set it up inside your secure facility which even takes them aback because that's bizarre, the idea we're going to do this on your facility.

you send them to do that without mattis, real estate developer who has no foreign policy experience whatsoever, and if it's a channel about opening up negotiations in terms of something realistic, in terms of something about foreign policy, why are they also back channeling with a bank? a kremlin-connected russian bank? and why is the reuters report saying that part of the discussion was the possibility of opening up opportunities for financing for trump-related -- >> we don't know the answer to any of those questions because what we're getting here -- >> that is not a back channel. >> you have to follow the money. you have to follow the meetings. the lies. the attempts to derail -- >> we don't have any of that information. >> -- to derail this investigation and the reality here is that jared kushner and the trump administration apparently trusted the russians more than the intelligence community. how can this not be suspicious? >> why would you trust -- i'm sorry, by the way, like, we can't forget that the intelligence services and also the defense department were being run by the obama administration.

they had plenty of reason not to necessarily want the obama administration to know what they were doing. >> what did they want to hide? this is suspicious as minimum. what did they want to talk about? why would you use russian facilities? >> why would you not maybe want to have all these people in these departments with this information which they go on to leak on a daily basis in the coming months -- >> sorry, the election was over. >> -- to try to derail your presidency? >> in this country we have a continuity of government. we hand over peacefully power from one party to another. all the time. are you telling me that the now elected trump administration didn't trust john brennan, somehow the straight-arrow guys are going to work to actively undermine? are they now seeing them as some sort of dissident? that has never happened in the history of the united states. >> one of the most interesting pieces of news was the fisa court, they said the obama administration had been actively engaged in abusing 4th amendment

protections by unasking people's identities on a routine basis which they did not acknowledge to the court and which they said brought up major, major concerns. maybe you wouldn't trust that team. >> who said that? what is the source of that information? >> do you how difficult it is to get a fisa warrant against an american person? >> you're not talking about what i just mentioned. >> i'm going to pause this conversation because i do have to go to break, because i do have to pay for bills. we are a for-profit enterprise. coming up, hillary clinton's first full-throated criticism of president trump. >> even denying things we see with our own eyes like the size of crowds. but as we go to break, we continue to honor our fallen men and women in uniform from the last year. former men and women in uniforms from last year. ♪ hey, man. oh! nice man cave!

nacho? [ train whistle blows ] what?! -stop it! -mm-hmm. we've been saving a lot of money ever since we switched to progressive. this bar is legit. and now we get an even bigger discount from bundling home and auto. i can get used to this. it might take a minute. -swing and a miss! -slam dunk! touchdown! together: sports! hey team, i know we're tight on time, but i really need a... ...sick day tomorrow. moms don't take sick days. moms take nyquil severe: the... ...nighttime sniffling,sneezing, coughing, aching, fever best... ...sleep with a cold, medicine.

there's nothing more than my vacation.me so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. they offer free cancellation if my plans change. visit booking.com. booking.yeah. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite. crunchy outside. chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites.

welcome back. data download time. is donald trump remaking the party or was the party remaking itself in a way to allow trump to walk in? our guru analyzed nbc news/"wall street journal" trending. in 2010, 41% of college graduates called themselves republican. 39% said they were democrat. in 2016, that number was 39% for the republican, a two-point drop. 35% for the democrats. a six-point jump. actually a big swing overall when you look at it. democrats now have the edge with college educated voters. reverse, of course, is true with those of a high school degree or less. republicans have seen a five-point jump with that group while democrats have seen a five-point drop. also a pretty significant swing.

this education gap follows some geographic trends we've been following. it helps explain, for instance, why some of the most vulnerable republican districts have the highest education rates like the special election we're watching in the 6th district of georgia outside of atlanta. other areas where republicans have seen the most grow, men over the age of 50 up 5 points. rural voters also up five points. those between the ages of 50 and 64 are now 4 points more republican than 7 years ago. for the democrats there's been a seven-point jump in those making $30,000 to $50,000 per year, sort of smack dab in the middle class there. 18 to 34-year-olds, not just millennials but gen z up six points and those with post-graduate degrees also up six points. bottom line, we're in the political realignment, in the middle of it. that's why it's not clean and it's going to take more than one election to figure this out. these trends do help explain why barack obama won two terms and frankly why donald trump won in

november. this process is still fluid and making our elections a bit more unpredictable than we have become used to. before we go to break, we want to note the passing of former senator and hall of fame pitcher, jim bunning, who died yesterday at the age yesterday at the ith age of 85. he was the only member of congress to throw a perfect game in the major leagues. and we lost a member of our extended nbc family, former national security adviser to president jimmy carter zbigniew brzezinski. he emigrated from poland, a scholar and moved to the white house, maintained an enduring suspicion of the soviet union and worked tirelessly to limit soviet expansionism in the late 1970s. our thoughts go out to our colleague mika and her entire family who tweeted friday night, chief at the helm, we love you, dad, and will always be grateful for the love and devotion you showed us all. grateful for the devotion that you showed us all.

coming up, "meet the press" endgame and post game, brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. 80 percent of recurrent ischemic strokes could be prevented with the right steps. and take it from me, every step counts. a bayer aspirin regimen is one of those steps in helping prevent another stroke. be sure to talk to your doctor before you begin an aspirin regimen.

it's just a burst pipe, i co(laugh) it. no. with claim rateguard your rates won't go up just because of a claim. i totally could've - no! switching to allstate is worth it. you know how painful heartburn can be. for fast-acting, long-lasting relief, try doctor recommended gaviscon. it quickly neutralizes stomach acid and helps keep acid down for hours. relieve heartburn with fast- acting, long-lasting gaviscon.

"meet the press" endgame is brought to you by boeing, always working to build something better. >> endgame, political speed round here. we got to try to get all of this stuff in. montana, amy walter, you do this for a living. you're the handicapper here on house races. >> yes.

>> republicans win by 6 points in a state that has a democratic senator, but looks demographically more like a trump state. who should feel good right now? >> it is like pee wee soccer, everybody gets a trophy. on the republican side, they got a win! they win, period. this is not just good because of -- they have a person in that seat, who is a republican, but good for recruiting and retaining. this is the time of year where people are trying to get candidates to run, donors to support candidates and getting members who are incumbents to run for re-election. so, a toxic environment, bad for those things, winning good, helps, on the republican side. the bad side, you're a democrat, what you're looking forward to is the margin in a lot of these special elections. a lot narrower, closer, democrats overperforming, where a traditional democrat could be. five points here in montana, 12 points in kansas, if democrats are going to take control of the house, they got to overperform nationally, somewhere between 5 and 8 points. it is not going to help in a deep red state like montana to

overperform by 5, it will help in the lighter shade. >> charlie, it seems as if georgia is now a must win. for the democrats, isn't it? >> very much so, in terms of setting the narrative. the real significance of what happened in montana was we moved the line. we moved the line in terms of acceptable behavior. >> you're referring to the body slamming. >> and the body slamming itself was not as significant as the reaction to the body slamming. the way in which so many conservatives, so many republicans felt that tribal loy ty demanded they rationalize this. and what is happening is this -- whether you want to call donald trump the role model in chief, the fact is, you have so many now republicans and conservatives and i'm one of them, you know, who model their behavior after this, the thin skin, thin skinned nastiness that mimics confidence. >> let me throw in, mark sanford put a voice to this, republican from south carolina, respectfully i submit the president has unearthed some

demons. i've talked to a number of people about it back home. he's given them license. do you buy this? >> i don't think you can blame the body slamming of a reporter on president trump. it is true. we look to a president to set tones and standards and i think all of us would be happier if president trump was in general exuding a little bit more of a respectful tone to everybody. look, people like he's blunt spoken, and that's fine, but there is a difference between being blunt spoken or crude, and discourteous in politics. >> words have consequences. words have meaning. ideas have consequences. it is one thing to, i think, be upset with the bias of the news media, but we moved the line now to just pure raw loathing and he's stoked those fires. >> last word. >> you had donald trump this morning tweet that journalists, presumably, journalists at the washington post and new york post, make up and invent sources. during the campaign, one of the

mosthilling images that stuck with me from it is a gentleman at a trump rally who had a t-shirt on that said rope, tree, journalist, trump whipped people up to attack the media. anyone at a trump rally experienced it, he's the head of the party, sets the tone. >> that's all i have for today. jammed week. have a happy and safe memorial day weekend. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." with this grade of protection... it's a fortress. and with this standard of luxury... it's an oasis. the 2017 e-class. it's everything you need it to be... and more. lease the e300 for $569 a month at your local mercedes-benz dealer. mercedes-benz. the best or nothing.

just turn on cars.coms on tprice dropswant? and get real-time notifications that could help save you money. use cars.com and save. thereit comes to technology, about my small business so when i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well that is feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪ ♪ we rbut we are not victims.ack. we are survivors. we are survivors. we are survivors. and now we take brilinta. for people who've been hospitalized for a heart attack. we take brilinta with a baby aspirin. no more than one hundred milligrams... ...as it affects how well brilinta works.

brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. in a clinical study brilinta worked better than plavix®. brilinta reduced the chance of another heart attack. or dying from one. don't stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor,... ...since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent,... ...heart attack, stroke, and even death. brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily,... ...or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers,... ...a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. slow heart rhythm has been reported. tell your doctor about bleeding,... ...new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. if you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor about brilinta. my heart is worth brilinta. if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca... ...may be able to help.

abreak through your allergies.? try new flonase sensimist allergy relief instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist experience you'll barely feel. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. due to mature subject matter, viewer discretion is advised. msnbc takes you behind the walls of america's most notorious prisons into a world of chaos and danger. now, the scenes you've never seen. "lockup: raw." ♪ daddy, are you coming home