women in uniform who have made the ultimate sacrifice. a look a women in uniform who have made the ultimate sacrifice. sunday, the growing russia investigation. new reports that president trump's son-in-law jared kushner tried to set up back channel communications with russia to avoid u.s. monitoring. the reaction? former deputy cia chief john mclaughlin. >> if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we would consider it espionage. >> the trump trump administration responds but not in front of cameras. >> >> we're not going to comment on jerryd. we're not going to comment. >> after john brannan testifies that russia can lure people unwittingly into treason. >> individual who's go along the treasonous path do not realize they're along that path until it

gets to be a bit too late. >> my guests this morning, bob corker, former director of national intelligence, james clapper and homeland security chief john kelley. and that congressional race in montana. the republican won. the democrat closed the gap. which party has reason to celebrate. >> joining me for insight and analysis are msnbc's joy roid, kimberly strasal columnist for the "wall street journal," charlie sykes, and amy walter of the cook political report. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, celebrating its 70th year. this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning on this memorial day weekend. the president came home late last night from his first overseas trip in office. when he did, the russia investigation got much closer to home, as well. so much closer in fact, that it now involves the president's

son-in-law jared kushner. president trump faces a scandal that threatens to overshadow perhaps his entire presidency. consider what happened in the last week. monday, "washington post" reports mr. trump had asked his intel chiefs in march to push back specifically on then fbi director james comey's comments on the russian investigation. tuesday, former cia director john brannan testifies he saw intelligence revealing contacts between russian officials and trump campaign members that he thought deserved investigation. thursday had, nbc news reports that jared kushner is now under fbi scrutiny in the russia investigation though he is not a target and late friday night, "the washington post" bombshell that will kushner and russia's ambassador to the united states discussed setting up a secret backdoor channel using russian communication facilities. so that their preinauguration discussions would not be picked up by u.s. monitoring. that last item was so explosive the trump administration went out of its way yesterday to field reporters' questions off camera even if they didn't

actually answer them. >> we're not going to comment on jerryd. we're just not going to excellent. >> national security adviser h.r. mcmaster did try to defend kushner without saying his name. >> generally speaking about back channel communications, what that allows you to do is to communicate in a discreet manner. >> it's very concerning that they wanted to have these communications at russian diplomatic facilities using russian phone lines. that shows that they were really trying to conceal this from the obama administration. and from u.s. intelligence. >> the reactions to the kushner story include simple shock from the intelligence community. >> i can't keep out of my mind the thought that if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we would consider it espionage. >> reuters is also reporting that kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the russian ambassador including two phone calls before the election. sometime between april and november. kushner's attorney did not deny the story but responded this way. mr. kushner participated in

thousands of calls in this time period. he has no recollection of the calls as described. >> on thursday, nbc news reported that kushner is under fbi scrutiny though not a subject of the investigation like former trump aides paul manafort and michael flynn. this week, former ci a director john brannan acknowledged for the first time his concern that trump campaign associates witnessingly or unwitnessingly may have been cooperating with russian operatives though he says he saw no proof of collusion. >> i saw information worthy of investigation by the bureau to determine whether or not such cooperation or collusion was taking place. >> now the senate intelligence committee has asked president trump's political organization to gather and produce all documents, e-mails and phone records going back to his campaign's launch in june, 2015. mr. kushner was also in charge of the campaign's data operation. >> we knew exactly who our voters were that we needed in the key swing states. jerryd was an incredible leader

to help make this all happen. >> at home, the president will not be able to avoid questions as did he overseas beginning with his own party in congress. many of whom were already losing confidence in his ability to lead. >> i think we have a situation on our hands where you every few days, there's a new revelation. >> the idea that congress continues to do nothing about russia interference in our election is completely unacceptable to me and the next work period, i'm going to do everything i can to make sure we sanction russia for interfering in our election. >> former house speaker john boehner told an energy conference wednesday that foreign policy aside, everything eshe's done has been a complete disaster. joining me now is republican senator and the chairman of the foreign releases committee bob corker of tennessee. welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> chuck, good to be with you. >> let me start with the allegations involving jared kushner and these meetings that he had where he either he suggested or somebody suggested that a back channel be put

together in some form, possibly using russian facilities. can you think of any good reason to do something like that in a transition period between one presidency over another? >> look, i think jerryd has said that he's more than willing to answer any and all questions. they reached out to us yesterday to make sure that we knew that was the case and i'm sure he's willing to do so. i look at what the reports have said about asking questions of him. it seems to me that he's based on just the reporting that you and others are making, he's not a target. and so i think i would just wait. it sounds like he's more than glad to talk about all of these things. and instead of getting wrapped up into a lot of hyperbole as these things can sometimes do, i think talking with him directly and getting him to answer any and all questions as he said he would do would probably be the

prudent course of action. >> i understand that. but can you think of any good reason, let's take as you know, you have the "washington post" bombshell and then clearly the white house hasn't said much publicly. they seem to be talking anonymously to "the new york times" and implied that well the meeting wasn't clear who suggested a back channel. and that it was going to involve mike flynn and syria. here's what i don't understand. why would you -- whied anybody want to set up something like that if it was about syria and not let the pentagon know about it? >> yeah, i have no idea. again, i think it's best to talk directly with these people. i know that from a military standpoint, obviously, we have ways of deconflicting with russia on things relative to syria. again, chuck, because i just don't know, i mean these sources are not people who are willing to give their names. it's just hard to respond to things like this that again, you know, no names attached. no dates attached.

look, let's let this unfold and as i've spent a lot of time with jered. he was over recently in a bipartisan way briefing us on the upcoming trip. they achieved all of their goals. he seems to me to be a very open person. again, i'd let him speak for himself when the time is right on all these issues. at that time, we can actually render judgment on the reality of what did or didn't take place. >> the time is right. i guess i'm a little concerned. do you not have a sense of urgency about this? this is -- let's think about the time period here. you just had 17 intelligence agencies report that russia interfered in this election. these interactions in the month of december, senator corker, you would think would trouble many people if they thought that geez, there's been accusations that maybe they were trying to, the russians were trying to assist one campaign or the other and then to have these meetings and then to have them talk about the idea of avoiding american

eavesdropping i guess, if you want to call it that. none of this troubles you? i mean you want to wait till it unfolds. >> no, no, no, no, no, chuck. listen, these recent reports is what i'm talking about. i mean, again, as i understand it, jared kushner is more than glad to talk about all these things as it relates to the interference in the election, no question. as you know, we've been allowing for a short period of time for secretary of state tillerson to see if he can change the trajectory in syria. but this next work period, we very much unless there's some major change in russia's actions in syria plan to double down on sanctions with russia. absolutely not. couldn't agree more with that. i'm not. >> disagreeing they interfered with our elections and we need to do something about that. if you're trying to tie me into that. >> i'm not trying to tie you into knots but you just connected potential sanctions on russian election to the behavior in syria.

should that be connected or should russia be punished for election interference, period? >> they should and sometimes, chuck, what we want to do is make sure we're having a good outcome for our nation. and so we can act with passion over an issue. on the other hand, if we know that there are some negotiations taking place when our relationship with russia is at the lowest point ever since 1991 for good reason, if there are some negotiations taking place relative to that, does it make sense to give the secretary of state some time to see where that goes? there are going to be sanctions against russia or the an least a codifying of existing sanctions on ukraine and crimea. that is going to happen. but i think my job and many people on the foreign relations community in general is to make sure we have good outcomes. look, these -- russia is going to be punished for what it did

in fa interfering in our electionses. . there's an investigationunder way. you talk multiple times with senator burr and senator warner how that is unfolding. to give a diplomat, everyone is going nuts on the 1% issue we give on diplomacy and aid. we care about diplomacy in our country and want to make sure it works. we want to give it every opportunity. to wait a few weeks at the request of the secretary of state to see if he can change things in syria seems to be to be an appropriate thing to do. what's that we've done. next work period, we plan to take it up. >> you said a few weeks. it's been four months since they've taken office. if your opinion, is it now time to decide the russians aren't going to change their behavior in syria? >> well, we'll see. i mean, unless there's something demonstratable that occurs, i read intelligence on wednesday morning in the scif. it doesn't seem to me they've changed their behavior in any way.

so i think we're going to be moving on with this. i know the banking committee plans to do the same. but again, chuck, i don't know what you're getting at here. obviously, yes, it has been six months. so does waiting two or three weeks for the secretary of state to see if he can negotiate a change, does that affect our ability to focus on what they did on the elections? i don't think so. by the way, we're not going to wait for the senate investigation but there is an investigation under way in the intel community. typically you wait until those things are complete before you take action. in this case, we're probably going to go ahead just because of the clamoring for this to occur, rightly so. we're going to take up sanctions this next work period. >> let me ask you a question, speaking of your next work period, john mccain made this interesting analysis of all the things you guys got to get done in the senate before labor day. here's the reality. we've got 11 weeks between now

and the end of september. we've got repeal of obamacare, talking about tax reform, a defense bill, we're talking about, there's about three other things, a looming debt limit. how do you pack all that in? so far i've seen no strategy for doing so. there seems to be, he's not alone but he's on the record. there seems to be a lot of concern among your colleagues that you have no idea how many of these things are going to get done in the next three months. >> well, it's obvious that not all of those things are going to get done in the next three months. there is a lot to do. and you know, we're right now meeting on health care. the meetings have been i will say very substantive. i would have liked for them to be more in the public so you're bringing the public along. there seems to be some consolidation beginning to take place on tax reform. i had a great discussion this week with fred smith at fedex who is working with many business associates. there seems to be something gelling there. but no, we've got a lot to do.

there's no question. and we're going to do the best that we can. but you know, we have a full two-year congressional cycle here to get many of those things done, and again, i think we're moving along in a thoughtful way with way too much work. you're right, to get done. a lot of people to get confirmed nominationwise. spending issues, a lot to get done. it's a privilege to serve in the senate to try to accomplish those things. we'll move along as quick willy as we can. >> got a busy show this morning. senator bob corker, republican from tennessee, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. earlier this morning, i spoke with homeland security secretary john kelley and began by asking him about the jared kushner news. >> i know jared. he's a great guy, decent guy. his number one interest is the nation. so you know, there's a lot of different ways to communicate back channel you know publicly with other countries.

i don't see any big issue here relative to jared. >> even with an adversary, somebody that at the time our own intelligence community had had said this was a country that had infiltrated our election. did this show good judgment? >> well, you know, it was before the government was in place during the transition period i think from what i understand. i think anytime you can open lines of communication with anyone whether they're good friends or not so good friends is a smart thing to do. >> had you ever in your lifetime of government service both in the military and outside of it, had you ever used another government's communications facility though, the idea of sort of going around american communications? >> well, no, but i didn't have to. i mean, in my previous life, we wouldn't do that kind of thing but you know, politics being what they are, a better way to

put it, not politics, but the kind of inner action here in washington, there's a lot of ways to communicate with people. >> intelligence sharing is something that's extraordinarily important to your job. >> uh-huh. >> if you get to the point where you now have our own intelligence community not very comfortable with how this administration is dealing with intelligence, how problematic is that for you? >> for me, and again, yogs necessarily accept this you know, the issue of the issues related to intelligence being a problem right now, but for me, i mean, i interact with my counterparts overseas all the time. i rely on all of the intelligence community to make decisions that i make. it's not arab for me for sure. >> did you one more time going back to the russia thing, is this any way, are you concerned that if there is a back channel

over here that is going to disrupt our ability to know what the russians are up to. >> just because you have a back channel if indeed that's what jared was after doesn't mean that he then keeps everything secret. he shares that but the back channels, as i understand it and of course, every administration has had it forever, back channel communications with people are ways to communicate with people, again, not in front of the press as an example but that information is you know, not necessarily kept secret from the rest of the government. >> does jared kushner have the same level of security clearance as you do? >> i don't know. >> is that something you should know? >> not necessarily. i mean, everything we do in the security world classification world, of course, before i would start talking to anyone, i would make sure that they had the requisite security clearances. i mean, i'm cleared for you know top secret come parted sci, that

kind of thing. >> is jared the same way. >> i don't know. if i ever had to talk to him or anyone else about intelligence at that level, i would make sure that they had that clearance before i talked to them. >> i got to ask you about a comment you made on friday. here it is. let me get to you explain. >> i was telling steve on the way in here, if he knew what i know about terrorism, he would never leave the house. the in the morning. >> it was a little jarring. i don't know if you meant it tongue in cheek or not. what do you mean by that? >> there are incredible plots against the united states, terrorism plots against the united states. the really, really good news is that we have incredible men and women that are protecting us every day. you know, the away game overseas, department of defense, cia, nsa, the home game fought by dhs, local law enforcement,

fbi, every single day there are people plotting to try to hurt us from a terrorism point of view. and every single day, we beat them. the men and women of law enforcement, again i say dhs, fbi, dod, we beat them every day. but we have to be perfect. they just have to be lucky once. >> it was interesting to me that you seemed to say that you wouldn't sleep at night. i mean, how serious if we had a threat level the way the uk has it, would we be at the highest level? >> well, i mean we have no specific threats right now. otherwise, we would be at a higher level. >> okay. >> but there's always a threat. we just are vigilant every day. and again, the 99.9% of americans can sleep safe in their homes at night. their children are protected. they are protected. but it is a relentless mission of our law enforcement

intelligence, military people to protect america. >> did british prime minister teresa may have a point when she complained to the united states about leaks. >> >> did. >> she did? it did come from our side. >> i don't know where the leak came from. i will tell you this as i always do in cases like this. i immediately called my counterpart in uk and after offering my condolences about the attack, unbelievably the third time in 120 days i've done that, i've called the minister and offered my condolences. she immediately brought this topic up. and if it came from the united states, it's totally unacceptable. and i don't know why people do these kind of things but it's borderline if not over the line of treason. >> you believe it's treason to leak some of this stuff. you believe that's treason. >> i do believe it is. i believe when you leak the kind of information that seems to be routinely leaked, high, high

level of classification, you are telling. >> and what was leaked on this manchester bombing you believe maybe even meets a treason. >> i think it's darn close. >> standard. >> close to treason. >> and mr. secretary, i'm are upping out of time and have to leave it there. >> coming up, how unusual is it for an incoming white house to attempt to arrange a back channel with a foreign government to elude u.s. monitoring? i'll ask my next guest, former director of national investigation james clapper. but first throughout the show as we go to break on there memorial day weekend, we pause to honor our fallen men and women in uniform since last memorial day. memorial day. we go on break, w men and women in uniform on this memorial day. ♪ got it. rumor confirmed. they're playing. -what? -we gotta go. -where? -san francisco.

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welcome back. as questions continue to swirl about the trump transition team's communication with the russians, i want to walk through the timeline of when specifically all of these events took place because we have learned more at least through the month of december 2016. it was on the 1st or 2nd that we now know jared kushner and mike flynn met with russian ambassador sergei kislyak to set up system of back channel communications between the trump administration and the kremlin. later he meets with sergei korsof. the head of a sanctioned russian owned stay run bank. on september 29th, calls take place between flynn and kislyak allegedly to discuss the new sanctions the obama administration had issued against russia day in response to russian interference in the election. joining me is the former director of national intelligence, james clapper. mr. chapter, welcome back to the show. >> thanks, chuck. >> before i get to the rest of the story, you just heard secretary kelly talk about the leaks that took place. we know the u.k. complained about the manchester bombing and

he referred to some of these leaks that they sort of walk up to the line of treason. some might say hey, they're just leaking out something that they think the public should know. where do you draw that line? >> well, i think, first of all, i have to say that leaks are damaging. they're corrosive. they risk compromising sources, methods and trade craft. as we've seen recently, they damage relationships with crucial partners. u.k. and israel come to mind. this is particularly serious now because in my experience, 50-plus years in intelligence, i don't know of a time when we depended more on friends and allies for sharing information in intelligence, particularly with respect to terrorism. i know secretary kelly takes it quite seriously and he should. the legal definition of what's treason, i'll leave that to the

lawyers, but just from a practitioner's standpoint in the intelligence business, leaks are bad. >> let me go through the issue that's been the bombshell this weekend, the issue that jared kushner, a private citizen, a private adviser at the time to the president-elect was having these meetings with the ambassador to russia, sergei kislyak. and they hid these meetings from the public eye. we also learned that he met with the head of a russian sanctioned bank. you were still the director of intelligence in december. are these things that you would have known? >> yes, they would have, and just to reinforce john brennan's -- former director of the central intelligence agency -- his comments before the house select committee on intelligence, and i have to say that without specific -- specifically affirming or confirming these conversations, since even though they're in the public realm, they're still

classified. but just from a theoretical standpoint, i will tell you that my dashboard warning light was clearly on and i think that was the case with all of us in the intelligence community. very concerned about the nature of these approaches to the russians. if you put that in context with everything else we knew the russians were doing to interfere with the election, and just the historical practices of the russians who typically almost genetically driven to co-opt, penetrate, gain favor, whatever, which is a typical russian technique, so we were concerned. >> and this is what's likely triggered the fbi's now extra attention to jared kushner that we've been reporting, that they believe he has more information, they're saying he's not a target. it would have been intelligence like this that would have triggered it? >> i think so.

i think john alluded to his concerns that he expressed to the fbi which is the proper channel. i have to say, you know, at the time i left i did not see any smoking gun evidence of collusion, but it certainly was appropriate for -- given all the signs, certainly appropriate for the fbi to -- and necessary for the fbi to investigate. >> sergey kislyak, the russian ambassador to the united states, there's been different ways people have described him. does the intelligence community believe he basically is an agent of the kgb -- excuse me, the fsb, the old kgb? >> given the fact that he oversees a very aggressive intelligence operation in this country, the russians have more intelligence operatives, than any other nation as represented in this country. still, even after we got rid of

35 of them. and so to suggest that he is somehow separate or oblivious to that is a bit much. >> why didn't we kick him out? why didn't he specifically get sanctioned? if he basically is viewed not as the ambassador to a country, not as a diplomat but as basically the american head of an intelligence agency, that's sort of what you just described. >> i'm reflecting an intelligence perspective. intelligence people are paid to be suspicious and of course, that -- whether to expel people or declare them png, at least in the last administration, was an interagency determination. so what we did do was get at 35 of the more notorious intelligence operatives and ask them to leave quickly. >> one of the caveats in "the washington post" bombshell story was that the russians frequently will do misinformation, even in intel channels. how often does that happen? how likely is it in this case?

>> it happens a lot. it happens overtly and covertly and certainly that was one of the tools that the russians used in the run-up to our election, was fake news, misinformation, paying trolls to insert phony information in social media. so this is standard practice of the russians and the soviets before them. >> if jared kushner's meeting with somebody that you referred to that sort of oversees a large intelligence operation, and while you said you didn't see any smoking gun on collusion, how close to the line is that in your mind? >> well, it certainly arouses your concern about what's going on. given russia, at least for my money, is our primary adversary. they are not our friends. they are in to do us in. i have to say as well, chuck, we

have kind of a time-honored custom in this country that we have one president and one administration at a time. oncoming administrations don't get a head start before the end of the current president's incumbency. >> what would you like to see? what's the appropriate action now that you would like to see take place against russia? is sanctions enough at this point? >> well, i think really not for me to say what happens now. i think certainly sanctions are a compelling, powerful weapon. the russians don't like them. i think the actions the last administration took, the sanctions and the other actions on the 29th of december i always thought of as a first step. and i haven't seen any change in

russian behavior anywhere that would merit a relaxation, and if anything, an increase in those sanctions as we've learned more about -- more has become public about what they're going to do. as i said at senator graham's subcommittee hearing on the 8th of may, they are only emboldened. they're going to continue to interfere in our political process, and to me that's the big story here and what american people should be concerned about. >> james clapper, i have to leave it there. the former director of national intelligence. somebody i think people are getting used to. you're almost going to be referred to as a member of congress. we see you up there. >> oh, i hope not. >> anyway, mr. clapper, thanks for coming on and sharing your views. >> thanks, chuck. when we come back, much more on the russia investigation. plus, republican greg gianforte who infamously body slammed a reporter won that

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panelists here are charlie sykes, long-time wisconsin conservative radio guy and msnbc analyst. joy reid, and kimberly strau st. the president is tweeting this morning. not specific of what he's referring to but you'll get an idea. it starts with it is my opinion that many of the leaks coming out of the white houses are fabry indicated lies made up by the fake news media. then he says whenever you see the words sources say in the news, it is possible those sources don't exist but made up by fake news writers. fake news is the enemy. amy walter, there's not a specific. we don't want to assume he's referring to a specific story. likely it's to what is going on with his son-in-law. >> there's no doubt. what we're learning is, we don't know that there's a fire but there is a whole lot of smoke. and that cloud is blocking

everything. if you're the president right now, trying to get back on course, you thought that going overseas having a foreign trip, nine days, this was going to reset. we were going to be talking about that trip today. we're not talking at all about the nine days that he spent overseas. we're talking about what's been happening here. we'll continue to talk about it. i think the most important thing, one of the most important things you talked about with senator corker is the fact this black cloud is also block out what he needs to reset, what republicans need to reset is getting points on the board with something happening legislatively. they have a republican house and senate and white house. and nothing is moving. the one thing that has passed the house health care bill not particularly popular. it's stuck in legislative purgatory right now in the senate. and all those other things, tax reform, the budget, they're not going anywhere. if you're a member thinking about running for re-election in 2018, you're not just worried about the russia piece. but what are you going to talk about when you go home over the next recess about what you've

actually been able to accomplish. >> by the way, charlie sykes, we've been hearing all weekend long, we get our weekly there's going to be a weekly staff shake-up story. there's been all sorts of chatter, the president is going to have somebody vetting his tweets. i think they've gotten to him. he used the phrase it is my opinion before putting all of that out about fabricated lies. we did a cursory search. he's never used that phrase or i think in his tweets before since so far going back as president. >> you might almost think that these were low energy tweets from the president. but it does look like we know the president has lawyered up. are the lawyers now going to be looking at his tweets? the nightmare here for the white house is this is not alignment of the planets. it's a collision of the planets. you're now having the russian investigation, the family, the finances. we're not talking about drip, drip, drip. it's a torrent. i think the difficulty of this white house dealing with this is going to be exponentially raised

by the fact that now it is jared kushner. listening to the folks you had on earlier, the reluctance of republicans or members of the administration to criticize jared kushner because this is family. this is one of the reasons why you avoid nepotism generally in business and politics because he's the one guy you cannot fire. he's so close to the president. this raises the threat level exponentially. >>. >> we are having a discussion that is divorced from reality this week. it is astonishing. lets me set the scene for you. it's 2008. we're having an election and candidate obama, he's not even president-elect, sends william miller over to iranton establish back channel and let the iranians know should he win the election they will have friendlier terms. so this is a private citizen going to foreign soil obviously in order to evade u.s. intelligence monitoring. and establishing a back channel. with a sworn enemy of the united states who was actively

disrupting our efforts in the military in the middle east. so is that bad judgment? is that a bad thing that happened? back channels are completely normal. they happen all the time. reagan did them. obama did them. every did. i'm not quite sure why supposedly having at least the president's now elected setting up a back channel with the russians is somehow out of bounds. >> well, here's one key difference. in october, months before this latest meeting and it was one of 18 separate contacts that we now know of between the trump campaign and russia, our primarily adversary in the world. >> and a super power. >> in october the collective judgment of the 17 intelligence agencies had been russia had been taking active measures to interfere in our election. we don't think iran was doing that. that was happening in october. so in december, the now president-elect decides he's going to name jim mattis to be his secretary of defense but he

doesn't open a back channel. he sends his real estate developer son-in-law supposedly or the son-in-law decided to open this back channel and it isn't a back channel. you don't go to the adversary country and say let's set something up inside of your embassy so we vad our intelligence services. we set it up inside of your secure facility which takes them aback because that's bizarre, the idea we're going to do this on your facility. you send him to do that without jim mattis, the real estate developer has no foreign policy experience whatsoever. if it's a channel about opening up negotiations in terms of something about foreign policy, why are they also back channeling with a bank? a kremlin-connected russian bank and why is the reuters report saying that part of the discussion was the possibility of opening up opportunities for financing for trump-related trump related. >> we don't know the answers to any of those questions because what we're getting here are. >> that is not a back channel. >> anonymously.

>> you have to follow the money. you have to follow the meetings, the lies, the attempts to derail. >> we don't have any of that information. >> to derail an this investigation. the reality is that jared kushner and the trump administration apparently trusted the russians more than the intelligence community. look, how can this not be suspicious in. >> >> why would you trust -- we cabinet forget that the intelligence services and also the defense department were being run by the obama administration. and they had plenty of reason not to necessarily want the obama administration to know what they were doing. >> what do they want to hide? this is suspicious at minimum. it is suspicious. what did they want to talk about? why would you use russian facilities. >> why would you not maybe want to have all of these people in these departments with this information which they would go on to leak on a daily basis. >> sorry. the election was over in december, the election was over. in this country, we have a continuity of government. we hand over peacefully power from one party to another all the time for 240 years. are you telling me that the now

elected trump administration didn't trust john brennan that somehow these straight arrow guys in our intelligence services were going to now work to actively undermine? are they now seeing them as some sort of dissident? that has never happened in the history of the united states. >> one of the most interesting pieces of news that came out this week was the fisa court revelation that they said that the obama administration had been actively engaged in abusing fourth amendment protections by unmasking people's identities on a routine basis which they did not acknowledge to the court and which they said brought up major concerns. maybe you wouldn't trust that team in fact. >> what the source of that information. >> fisa court. >> do you know how difficult it is to get a fisa warrant against an american person. >> you're not talking about what i just mentioned. >> i'm going to pause this conversation because i do have to go to break because i do have to pay for bills on this. let me do that. we are a for profit enterprise. coming up, hillary clinton's first full throated criticism of president trump.

>> or even denying things we see with our own eyes. like the size of crowds. >> but as we go to break, we continue to honor our fallen men and women in uniform from the last year. honor our former men and women in uniforms from last year. ♪ there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone that makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah!

welcome back. data download time. is donald trump remaking the republican party or was the party already remaking itself in a way that allowed donald trump to walk in?

there's evidence the gop was becoming trumpian before he got there. dahntay cheney analyzed nbc news/"wall street journal" polling going back to 2010 to help us understand this trend. education is a key measure. in 2010, 40% of college graduates called themselves republican. 39% said they were democrat. in 2016, that number was 39% for the republicans, a two-point drop and 45% for the democrats. a six-point jump. it's a big swing overall. democrats now have the edge with college educated voters. the reverse is true with those with a high school degree or less. republicans have seen a five-point jump with that group while democrats have seen a five-point drop. also a pretty significant swing. this education gap follows geographic trends we've been following and helps explains why some of the most vulnerable republican districts have the highest education rates like the special election we're watching in the sixth district in georgia outside of atlanta. some other areas where republicans have seen the most

growth, men over the age of 50, up five points. rural voters also up five points and those between the ages of 50 and 64 are now four points more republican than seven years ago. for the democrats, there's been a seven-point jump in those making $30,000 to $50,000 per year smack dab in the middle class. 18 to 34-year-olds not just millennials but jen z up six points. those with postgraduate degrees also up six points. we're in a little realignment, in the middle of it. it's not clean and it's going to take more than one election to figure this out. these trends do help explain why barack obama won two terms and frankly, why donald trump won in november. this process is still fluid. it's making our elections a bit more unpredictable than we have become used to. before we go to break, we want to note the passing of former senator and hall of fame pitcher jim bunning who dies yesterday at the age of 85. he was a congressman, a two-term

senator from kentucky and the only member of congress to throw a perfect game in the major leagues. and we lost a member of our extended nbc family. former national security advisor to president jimmy the father of mika brzezinski. he maintained an enduring suspicion of the soviet union and worked tirelessly to limit soviet expansionism in the late 1970s. our thoughts, of course, go out to our colleague, mika, and her entire family who tweeted, chief at the helm. we love you dad and will always be grateful for the love and devotion you showed us all. the first rule of being a plant manager is to always keep track of your employees. micromanage them. make sure they're producing. woo! employee of the month! you really shouldn't leave their side.

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back now with end game, we have to try to get all of these stuff in. montana and amy walter, you do it there are a living. you're the happenedy capper on house races. republicans won by six points in a state that has a democratic senator but looks more like a trump state. who should feel good right now? >> it's like pee-wee soccer, everyone gets a trophy. so on the republican side they

have to win. they win, period. and this is not just good because they have a person in the seat who is a republican but good for recruiting and good for retaining. this is the time of the year people are trying to get candidates to run, donors to support candidates, and getting members who are incumbents to run for re-election. a toxic environment bad for those things, winning, good. the bad side you're democrats, you're looking for the margins. a lot narrower. overperforming where a traditional democrat could be. five points in montana. 12 points in kansas. if democrats are going to take control of the house they have to overperform nationally somewhere between five and eight points. so it's not going to help in a really deep red state like montana. it will help in the lighter shade of red. >> charlie, it does seem as if, boy, george is now a must win. for the democrats. >> very much so. in terms of setting that narrative. the real significance of what happened in montana, once again

we've moved the line. we've moved the line in terms of acceptable behavior. >> you're referring to the body slamming. >> and the body slamming itself i think was not as significant as the reaction to the body slamming, the way in which so many conservatives, republicans felt that tribal loyalty demanded they rationalize this and what's been happening is this, you know, whether you want to call donald trump the role model in chief, the fact is you have so many now republicans and conservatives and i am one of them who model their behavior after this. this thin skinned nastiness that mimics confidence. >> let me throw in mark sanford put a voice to this, the republican from south carolina. respectfully i'd submit that the president has unearthed some demons. i've talked to a number of people about it back home. they say, well look, if the president can say whatever, why can't i say whatever? he's given them license. do you buy this? >> i don't think you can blame the body slamming of a reporter on the president.

it is true we look to the president to set tones and standards. i think all of us would be happier if president trump was in general exuding a little bit more of a respectful tone to everybody. look, people like that he's blunt spoken and that's fine, but there's a difference between being blunt spoken and being crude or discourteous in politics. >> words have consequences. words have meanings. ideas have consequences. it's one thing to, i think, be upset with the media bias but we've moved to raw loathing. he has stoked those fires. >> you had donald trump this morning tweet that journalists, presumably the journalists at the "washington post" and "the new york times," literally make up and invent sources. during the campaign one of the most chilling images that stuck with me was a gentleman at a trump rally who had a t-shirt on that said rope, tree, journalist. he whipped people up to attack the media, anyone who was at a trump rally experienced it. he sets the tone. >> guys, that's all i have for

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everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. good afternoon to you. live at msnbc headquarters in new york on this memorial day. total confidence, president trump standing behind his top adviser and son-in-law jerrod kucurb er in despite revelation kushner tried to set up back channel communications with russia before the nothing racial, advisers suggesting kushner lay low for a while. but will the president let him? and dems fighting words as more details come out from the various investigations into the russian role in the presidential campaign. some democrats are already calling for president trump to be impeached. we'll talk with one congressman who's actually drafting articles of