all right. he won't talk much about it. to the viewers, thank you for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow night, 6:00 p.m. eastern. if you can't watch live, set your dvr and follow me on twitter, @greta. you can say mean things to me anonymously. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. mission in moscow. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris math use in washington. president trump is back here in washington, back to the biggest story of his presidency. the investigation into his campaign's ties to russia. there's been a slew of new troubling headlines about his son-in-law and senior adviser, jared kushner. "the washington post" reported friday, jared kushner and russia's ambassador to washington discussed the possibility of setting up a secret and secure communications channel between trump's transition team and the kremlin,

using russian diplomatic facilities in an apparent move to shield their pre-inauguration discussions from monitoring. sean spicer today refused to either confi either confirm or deny that report. let's watch. >> i'm wondering, sean, if you can tell us when the president knew -- whether the president knew at the time that jared kushner was seeking to establish back panel communications at the russian embassy to the russian government, and if he didn't know at the time, when did he find out? >> i think that assumes a lot. >> d the president discuss it, though? >> i'm not going to get into what the president did or did not discuss. what your question assumes is a lot of facts that are not substantiated by anything but anonymous sources that are so far being leaked out. >> does he approve of that action? >> you're asking if he approves of an action that is not a confirmed action. >> meanwhile, reuters reported, quote, jared kushner had at least three previously undisclosed contacts with the russian ambassador to the united states during and after the 2016 presidential campaign. this morning, "the new york

times" reported on another meeting that has drawn the attention of investigators. kushner's 30-minute encounter in mid-december with russian banker sergey gorkov, whose bank has been used by russian intelligence to plant spies here in the u.s. quote, the banker is a close associate of mr. putin, but he has not been known to play a diplomatic role for the russian leader. that has raised questions about why he was meeting with mr. kushner at a crucial moment in the presidential transition. in a statement this week about kushner, president trump said, i have total confidence in him. but nbc reports a source familiar with the thinking inside the white house told nbc news that a few individuals have even suggested to kushner that he should lay low. for more, i'm joined by "washington post's" adam entous who broke friday's story about the kushner back channel. ken dilanian, and susan page. adam, first of all, this story. what's its import? the fact that he wanted to set up a back channel with kislyak,

the russian ador,ehd the scenes, out of touc unmonitored i suppose by the state department, the nsa, anybody. he's trying to hide his communication. >> i think the important here is trying to understand why the fbi is investigating jared kushner. and so, you know, both "the washington post" and nbc reported last week before this story that you're referring to broke, that they were investigating kushner for a series of meetings he had in december, including the one in question with ambassador kislyak and the follow-on meeting with the russian banker. and so what we're trying to do here is explain, well, why is the fbi interested in kushner? and you might be able to understand from this intercept that we're describing in that story why the fbi would be curious. why was kushner, according to kislyak's report to moscow, suggesting creating this secure channel in order to have this conversation and proposing even using russian facilities to have

that communication rather than basically facilities at the white house, cia, and the state department have at their disposal? >> i'm impressed by something i just saw. does kushner have a driver and a car? how does that work? he works in the white house as one of the staffers. does he get a car and a driver? it looks like some sort of suv that takes him to work. do we know about that? >> i'm not aware of that. >> adam? >> i'm watching it right here in front of me. this is pretty high-level stuff here. it looks like he's some sort of major security official. anyway, small point. let me ask you about the options here. do we know whether it was personal business or government business or political business that he was iolve with, with kislyak andhen of course with goov? >> we don't know. you know, at that point, you know, he wasn't officially named by -- you know, to a formal role in the incoming administration. that doesn't happen until january. so, you know, obviously, though,

the transition was using jared as their point person not only with the russians, but also with the chinese, with the uae, and others, the israelis dprefor example. he was their designated contact with foreign leaders and foreign governments and foreign ambassadors, along with flynn, who was also involved with this -- mike flynn, the designated national security adviser. it clearly was in his wheelhouse to be having these contacts. there's absolutely nothing wrong with him engaging with people like this, foreign ambassadors. the issue is, is why the secrecy? >> why is that? when you ask as a reporter on this beat and you're covering this story, you're trying to get the truth. why doesn't this guy just come to you guys, let's have a meeting. i'll tell you everything we talked about at those meetings. what's the big secret? >> when we asked in december, when we first initially heard about this meeting, we were told there were no contacts. that was repeated over and over again as i'm sure all your

reporters are very much aware. so this has been an ongoing basically story line from them that these contacts initially never happened. then they acknowledged that the contacts did happen but say that the meetings were inconsequential. then when we find out that they were very specific discussions about setting up in this case a communications channel, you know, depending on who you talk to, they might say that that is a very normal thing for people to do or, like you heard from the spokesperson for the white house, spicer, basically neither confirming nor denying that it happened and basically questioning why we would report stories about this without named sources. >> the sneakiness of this is so overwhelming as you point out. trump comes out and says months ago, i would have had him do that if he hadn't done that about flynn. i want to have these conversations. first of all, kushner doesn't talk first of all. he's like garbo. he doesn't talk. no one's ever heard the guy talk. then of course the flak, it

looks like spicer has been demoted from spokesperson to non-spokesperson because he doesn't say anything anymore. so the sneakiness about this whole thing is really a problem. anyway, adam, hold on. here's senator john mccain responding to the report that kushner wanted to set up a back channel with moscow. let's watch. >> my view of it is i don't like it. i just don't -- i don't -- i know that some administration officials are saying, well, that's standard procedure. i don't think it's standard procedure prior to the inauguration of a president of the united states by someone who is not in an appointed position. >> i think that's the crux of it, ken, because, bobby kennedy -- i've been writing this book, and he had a pretty well known established relationship with this guy, balance sha kov, who was kgb. bobby would meet with him every two weeks and played an important in some things like dealing with the cuban missile crisis where he basically went with the idea of trading the

turkish missiles for the miss e missiles that castro d accepted in cuba and actually had a positive role in the end. this was before the guy had any job. he wasn't working for the u.s. government. who was he working for? we don't know what he was meeting about. >> that's the difference, chris. it's extraordinary that he proposed according to this story, that he wanted to use the russian line of communication. was he going to go to the embassy? the embassy is watched by the fbi? was he going to get in the trunk of a car. >> how could he be that naive to not know that everything he's doing with a russian is being monitored. >> whoever leaked this terrific story to "the washington post" was willing to disclose that the u.s. is monitoring the communications of kislyak back to moscow. but the leaker was so disturbed by this behavior, that they were willing to take the risk. >> that's what we're seeing over and over again is people in the government, not necessarily trump employees, permanent people, being distressed by things they are seeing and

leaking them in a way i've never seen before. we've had leaky times before, but we've never had anything like the disclosures we are saying day after day after day on this story. >> you know, adam, i don't know how these trump people have survived on earth this long without knowing certain things. they know a lot about business and real estate. but, you know, our intelligence service have been tracking the russians at least since the cold war began in '47, probably during the war too. they picked up the famous tapes about elizabeth bentley. they caught owl tall the commun working for the russians. of course they sat on that for years. is that part of the problem, the trump people are so naive they k they can be sneaky and get away with it? >> i really don't know. obviously we're dealing in this case with people who are not necessarily establishment, you know, people that have been around washington for years and have familiarity with the way this works. at the same time, there seemed to have been an obsession with

secre secrecy. about two weeks after this meeting with kislyak in question, the crown prince of abu dhabi in the uae, basically our most important arab ally, he sneaks into new york in order to meet with jared kushner, not at trump tower, at another location. you know, again, why did that have to be done so clandestinely? you know, the only reason the obama folks found out about that visit was because the name of the crown prince appeared on the flight manifest which was reviewed by border patrol in uae before the flight took off to go to new york. so, again, over and over there is this obsession with secrecy, which i think is basically coming back to bite them. whether it was intended to be nefarious or perfectly innocent and their goal was just to basically not have public scrunity, i don't know, but it just keeps coming back again and again to the same thing. >> we're not completely in the dark here. when you meet with a guy like

sergey gorkov, you're talking to a guy that has something to do with sanctions relief, something to do with they want to get those sanctions gone. we know motive here. trump wants to deal with the russians, offer them something, get something back. we know you don't meet with a bank president except about money. >> this is a state-owned bank gorkov has been described as a putin crony, and this bank is under sanctions and badly wants these sanctions to be lifted. >> so they wanted the meet something. >> that's the -- >> that's what i'm getting from the story. adam, isn't that the story, that gorkov and kislyak wanted the meeting with kushner, right? he wanted to introduce them to gorkov, yeah? so that tells you the russians wanted sanctions relief, if st m seems to me. >> i don't think there's any question. that was maybe in addition to an early phone call between trump and putin, maybe an early summit between trump and putin. aside from those things that would again help putin look like he's basically coming in from the cold if you will after

tension with obama, that basically sanctions relief would be the most tangible thing that he would hope for. >> the important thing for our viewers to understand is this is not normal. the russians are our adversary. >> that guy looks like a character out of dr. strange love, kislyak. >> the trump people had former cia officials, a guy named tom higgins. they had plenty of people who knew the dangers of these contacts. >> where do you think this is going? you're our guy. is this going to an attempt to try to do something miraculously wonderful like bring peace to syria in the middle east or something to do with trump wanting to make more money or kushner still out there for money? what could be at the end of this spectrum? >> flynn was clearly interested in counterterrorism above all. he really thought he could make some kind of arrangements with the russians on counterterrorism. officials i talk to say that was breathtakingly naive. >> if that's your agenda, why is kushner in the middle of it all? >> that's a great question. >> if you're going to work an a

syria deal or something like that, he's not guy with any experience there, any diplomatic history. i just -- it doesn't make sense that he would be the guy. >> let's get to the human story because i think everybody watching this is wondering about blood relations, the son-in-law. why does he trust this guy? why the guy seems robotic to me. is he really a person, ? he doesn't seem like an actual human, this guy kushner. >> keep in mind how small trump's circle is, including when he was in business. he never had a big circle. he always relied on family. this is a guy who i don't think had a big relationship with him before the campaign. i think they forged a relationship during the campaign when -- >> he doesn't talk. who does he talk to? there he is. he did talk to trump. >> i've never heard his voice actually. >> snl made a joke about that one time. adam, congratulations again. you guys are amazing at what you're breaking. we live and die with your newspapers. two great newspapers and of course the one that's on

everybody's doorstep in the morning, usa today. adam entous, thank you very much, ken dilanian and susan page. coming up, what's happened since president trump returned home? well, for starters, german chancellor angela merkel said her country can no longer count on the united states. how is that? we defended west berlin. we were the ones they looked out for, and now it's crumbling. the new french president shood up to russia now and compared trump to putin and turkish lead leader erdogan. trump has a history of rankling our allies. plus failure to communicate. e sean spicer's days numbers? and much of what we've seenn the last four months of the trump presidency mirrors another made for tv movie. frank underwood of house of cards. i'm telling you, it ain't much worse. the netflix show is back, and i'll talk to one of its stars tonight. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch.

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chewy inside. tum tum tum tum new tums chewy bites. as the trump presidency is engulfed by the russian investigation, president trump himself realizes his legislative agenda is in dead serious jeopardy. trump now wants the senate to do awayith its 60-vote threshold for legislation. today he tweeted, the u.s. senate should switch to 51 votes immediately and get health care and tax cuts approved fast and easy. dems would do it, no doubt. well, there's no appetite in the senate whatever to change the rules again after republicans voted last month to lower the vote threshold for supreme court nominees to 51 votes. that's 50 senators and the vice president to break the tie. we'll be back.

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i want to begin by recapping the incredible, historic trip that the president and the first lady have just concluded because it truly was an extraordinary week for america. it was an unprecedented first trip abroad.

the president is acting to strengthen alliances, to form new partnerships, and to rebuild america's standing in the world. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was sean spicer touting the success of president trump's first foreign trip. he was echoing the president who tweeted yesterday, just returned from europe. trip was a great success for america. hard work but big results. trump is amazing. but the headlines at home tell a different story, some calling the trip a catastrophe. others say president trump left our allies rattled. german chancellor angela merkel seemed to confirm this over the weekend when she told supporters that the time germany could depend on oths was over. according to reuters, she said, quote, europeans must really take our fate into our own hands. president trump also faced off with french president with a white knuckle handshake. the french president also seemed to snub president trump again, deliberately walking toward him and then swerve ago way to meet the german chancellor. none of this was accidental or coincidental. the french president told the

newspaper, quote, donald trump, the president of turkey, or the president of russia are of a mind set of power relations, which doesn't bother me. i don't let anything go. that's how one makes oneself respected. let's not forget the awkward push heard from around the world when he shoved aside the prime minister of montenegro to get to the front of the stage. one of the many moments from trump's trip like when he touched the glowing orb in saudi arabia or performed a say ber dance with the royal family. i'm joined by ron reagan and eugene robinson and michael steele. i want to start with gene. how do you make so many enemies so fast in a week? >> yeah. i mean, look, the mideast part of the trip, the first part, i would seriously quarrel with some of the policies and the touching of the orb was weird. but he got through that, and the saudis like him, and he likes the saudis. so we get that. but the european part was a

disaster, a catastrophe, whatever you want to call it. how do you drive a wedge between the united states and europe that's not -- >> what's his problem with germany, which is the one -- whatever terrible history it had in the last century, it is a well run, peaceful country that holds europe together now. >> i think a lot of it has to do with how donald trump perceives these nations going into it. he's looking athis from his dealings with them in terms of business. i'd be interested to know how many deals he could not get done in germany. he could not get in other parts of europe versus the middle east versus elsewhere around the world and asia. i think from his perspective, it's -- >> what's with the golf cart? ron, i think this is interesting. these guys all take this walk to show that they're regular people, this stroll. there's the president of the united states, who is not handicapped in any way physically, not challenged, is riding along in a golf cart. >> yeah. >> what a regal statement that is. >> he obviously doesn't feel

like he's a part of the nato club, does he? it's remarkable to think that often history can be changed and sometimes in some very fundamental ways by people who don't actually know what they're doing and have no appreciation of the consequences of what they're doing. i really feel that way about donald trump. i don't think he's ever really given five minutes' thought to nato except that somebody has obviously told him that nato is a bad thing and that we should be, you know, sort of tough on it or maybe against it and the eu is problematic. the happiest guy in the world right now is, of course, vladimir putin. given the context of everything that we've been talking about, you were talking about earlier on the show, that's a disturbing thing. 70 years of nato, the most consequential, important international alliance of any of our lifetimes, and donald trump seems to have taken, you know, two days, whatever it was, to undermine that. >> you would think he was a mole. >> it's historic in that way. >> you'd think he was a mole working for him. i can't say it the w some late

night comediansescribe his role, but he seems to be working for the guy. as ron points out, marshall plan was the most amazing thing we'd ever done. >> the transatlantic alliance, it is clearly vladimir putin's number one strategic goal is to destabilize that alliance and to sort of drive that wedge, and donald trump is doing it for him. now, putin, if he is a longer-range thinker, will also have to look at, okay, what does that mean? does that mean a germany france alliance that gets serious about military power? they maybe get serious about nuclear power because they can't depend on the u.s.? >> churchill had it figured out. france and germany had to marry after world war ii to make it work. >> ironically, trump is making europe, the continental europe, stronger. >> let's go to the visual. why did trump want to be known as the guy that shoved aside

little montenegro. why did he put this guy into a death trip? anybody can do a shock handshake if you get the jump on the other guy? >> for him, it's about the competition. it's getting to the front of the line. it is being the alpha male in the space, and he likes to put that out there in the media where people see it and they comment on it. it reinforces his own brand, and it reinforces -- >> i think that's one of the great -- then he puts that mussolini chin out there. watch this. >> it's like, okay, so i'm here. i mean it's like you said about the golf cart. everyone else is walking. he's in the golf cart. wh are you going to talk about? you' goi to talk about the guy in the kofl cagovernment ca the 17 heads of state walking in a pack. >> sean spicer was asked about the president's relationship with angela merkel. let's go here. >> i think that the relationship the president has had with merkel, he would describe as fairly unbelievable.

they get along very well. he has a lot of respect for her. they continue to grow the bond that they had during their talks in the g7. >> you know, ron, that's dead wrong. >> unbelievable period, full stop. >> i always go back to "love actually," but that scene of billy bob thornton as the borish, awful combination of w. and clinton at their both worsts. this guy outdid them both last week, pushing people out of the way, breaking their hands in handshakes, riding around in a cart. by the way, at the end of the show, his poll numbers went up over the week by five points. so people like this anti-european thing. >> i mean the only thing unbelievable is that trump and merkel actually have a relationship of any kind, any sort of working relationship. it's really -- again, it's just astonishing that he's done this much harm to the transatlantic

relationship. >> who won? who was the big winner last week for this big overseas trip? >> vladimir putin. >> yeah. >> absolutely. >> the saudis. >> number two is merkel. >> merkel is number two. >> merkel is going to get reelected landslide. >> macron. i think the new french president shed can go mano-on-mano. >> don't forget the saudis. >> saudis won too. thank you, guys. it's good to have the masters of the cloth all here, the j geniuses. up next, the house intelligence committee has requested information from president trump's longtime personal attorney, michael cohn. we're going to find out what that's all about. they're all under investigation. this is "hardball," where the action is.

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i'm milissa rehberger. the suspect in the anti-muslim stabbing attack inportland oregon that left two people dead made his initial appearance in court today. he didn't enter a plea, but he did make repeated outbursts in court, yelling, you call it terrorism, i call it patriotism. he faces aggravate the murder and other charges. the attack happened friday on the first day of ramadan, the holiest time of year for

muslims. police say christian was verbally abusing two women on a train, including one wearing a hijab. three men intervened before christian attacked them, killing two and wounding another. president trump condemned the stabs in a tweet today saying the violent attacks in portland are friday are unacceptable. back to "hardball." welcome back to "hardball." the senate and the house intelligence committees now have sent a letter to president trump's personal lawyer, michael cohen, requesting information on any contacts he had with russia. nbc news has confirmed that former national security adviser michael flynn will provide some personal documents to the senate intelligence committee. that's a shift. this comes as the justice department's investigation into russia's interference into the 2016 election heats up with "the

wall street journal" reporting that special counsel robert mueller is off to a fast start. that's good news. i'm joined by california democratic congresswoman jackie speier, who is a member of the house intelligence committee. first of all, i don't want to waste a second with you, woman. -- congresswoman. i want to know what you are thinking about and what you want to find out. what's the mystery here. what the hell is kushner up to? what's flynn up to? what's trump up to with the russians? what were they doing? >> there is an unholy alliance in my mind. the fact that jared kushner wanted a secret means by wish to communicate with russia. he is meeting with gorkov, who is a banker that's had sanctions on him since 2014. he's got real estate dealings in new york where he's got a piece of property that's underwater. i mean all of this is really, i think, a suggestion that this relationship that the president and those arounim have with

russia, has created an absolutely unacceptable environment in which we as a country are doing business with all the other countries around the world. >> well, who is this guy, jared kushner? we know he's the son-in-law of the president, but who he is in reality? what's his role in this plan? there he is being taken around in an suv with a driver like he's henry kissinger or somebody. who is this guy? i mean is he now in charge of all middle east deal-making? is he in charge of all international money matters? he seems to have no real title. who is he? >> well, he is the son-in-law of the president, and that gives you all the credibility you need. the suv driver is really available to all family members, and they all have protection. they all have the ability to move around with those secret service agents. >> unbelievable. let me ask you about this meeting that we're all finding out about where he wanted to set up a back-channel relationship through kislyak, and he also met

with gorkov, who is head of the bank over there. what do you think he's up to? >> well -- >> kushner? >> a number of things. i think that he, along with his father-in-law, along with rex tillerson, want to lift sanctions because there's a lot of money to be made by exxonmobil, which was the former company that rex tillerson was engaged with vladimir putin about. i think that we all know that there have been all of these russian oligarchs who have purchased properties within trump towers in florida, that there was another property that trump wasble to sell for $40 million more in the course of two or three years to another russian oligarch, who now it appears was in the same, shall we say, faa airspace with trump at different locations during the campaign. this all in my mind adds up to something pretty sinister. >> you make it sound like trump is an oligarch.

is he? uses political power to make more money. >> i think he is all about making money. why is it he got 30 trademarks from china that he's been trying to get for ten years, and lo and behold, after he's president, voila, they're there. then his daughter gets another number of trademarks in china. this is all about increasing the trump organization bandwidth and the dollars. >> unbelievable. thank you so much, congresswoman jackie speier. tough statement, but we'll be following it up. up next, we've been waiting for that white house shake-up. one key member is out. a guy i never really thought about. by the way, that's an oxy morin. communications director of the trump administration. how do you direct that? that's coming up. he's out. he just quit. you're watching "hardball," where the action is.

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hey, i've got the trend analysis. hey. hi. hi. you guys going to the company picnic this weekend? picnics are delightful. oh, wish we could. but we're stuck here catching up on claims. but we just compared historical claims to coverages. but we have those new audits. my natural language api can help us score those by noon. great. see you guys there. we would not miss it. watson, you gotta learn how to take a hint. i love to learn.

let me just put this whole russian thing to bed once and for all. trump is innocent.

how do we know? because he told us so, period. they're going to prove it with a certified letter, which you know is the truth because it costs an extra $2 to have it certified. >> it still works for me. welcome back to "hardball." the man who has become a favorite target of "saturday night live" returned today to give his first on camera briefing in a couple of weeks. it come as mid reports that president trump is increasingly dissatisfied with his communications team at the white house. a move that may signal a coming staff shake-up, whiteout communications director mike dubke resigned today after three months. politico also reports that spicer is supposed to take on a reduced public role. in other words, disappear. he >> i think that is frustrated like i am and like so many others to see stories come out that are patently false, to see

narratives that are wrong, to see, quote, unquote, fake news. when you seetories get perpetrated that are absolutely false, tha are not based in fact, that is troubling. >> well, to mitigate the damage from the ongoing trump/russia investigation, which is real, not fake, the white house plans to establish a war room to respond to negative stories. meanwhile, former trump campaign manager corey lewandowski and miz deputy, david bossie, are being considered for new roles in the administration. joining me right now, the roundtable. three white house correspondents, glenn thrush, shannon petty piece, phil rucker. three heavy weights. the american people don't care about process. they care about who is leading the country and is he or she getting anything done? how come they're not going to get anything done on the hill this year, it looks like? trump is tweeting. it seems like a kid could do that on the corner somewhere. he's president of the united states. he seems to have no effective power except to be boorish.

>> that's the problem for donald trump as president. his approval ratings are at a historic low. >> they're up a little this week. >> he has no major legislative achievement. he had what the house sees as a really good foreign trip. >> he turned nunes into a nothing, the chairman of the intelligence committee. he turns spicer into a patsy every day. he gives him nothing to say except, don't say anything. get out there and cover for me. then everybody else is to blame but him. >> it's distractions by his own making, by his tweets, by his statements, by contradicting himself, and the people who voted for him, who put him into office, who very passionatel resonated with his message about jobs, the economy, health care, you know, making america safer -- the domestic agenda is now crippled until this white house can get out in front of this russia story and stop creating drama of its own making. >> i'm not naive. that's one thing i am not, but i must ask the obvious question.

is what they're hiding so bad that it's better to keep hiding it? >> i don't know. >> see i don't know. they're acting like it is. >> that's the whole thing. there's a doughnut hole. the whole story is a bagel. i'll go back to brooklyn with you. no, i think that is the big issue. they are behaving in a way that only begs the question what is it that -- >> what's so bad? >> what is at the center of it? >> suppose they're trying to bring a middle east peace and they figure the way to do it is get a private conversation going with vladimir putin. about it's something personal with business that smells and stinks, they shouldn't be going anywhere near it. but nobody really thinks it's all about money right now, do they? that they're still cutting deals over hotels? december? >> and hiding the tax returns. it lets people's imagination run wild. so either -- that's the thing. people either come back to you're stupid or you're evil or you're misleading us and you can't imagine communications and you can't get out in front of a

story or, as you said, something to hide. i think until they get this problem under control, people's imaginations are going to run wild. >> phil, i've worked on the inside of politics for a long time. it seems to me at some point you go to the boss and say, look, why don't you tell them what happened. why don't you pop the boil. do what you have to do. take a bad day. when it doubt, put it out. the longer you keep the fish, the more it smells. why don't you just deal with this thing? >> and there are a lot of questions that i think the staff don't even know. it was interesting today, sean spicer didn't even give a full-throated defense of jared kushner or talk about what happened -- >> i saw you in there. you got no answer from him. >> i think it's because he doesn't actually know all the facts and he's uncomfortable getting out there ahead of things. >> we're getting into legal territory too where they might not be able to know those facts. >> shannon, first question. somewhere behind the screen like in wizard of oz, their is a person who has to tell sean spicer what to say everybody day. i presume he's not being briefed by the president every day. that person is this guy dubke,

right. he just quit. who briefs spicer every day? >> i think the president is very involved in not only what spicer says but the attitude he brings to the podium. >> so he choreographs this. >> and he watches them, yes. >> you're bobby moynihan every saturday night. >> every friday night too. spicer sits across the desk in the oval office and donald trump yells at him and sean spicer -- you know, i've seen pictures of it. i've heard it from other staffers, sits there with a yellow legal pad and takes down and he gives back and forth with the president. it's not an entirely one-way conversation. but if you listen to him, and phil and i were talking about this in the green room. listen to the words that were coming -- >> great trip. >> unbelievable trip. this is donald trump talking. >> right. the very first day on the job when he came out, who was that talking? >> biggest crowd. what's big today, mr. president? but erything is historic,

unprecedented, epic. >> the biggest. >> it's a lot of dear leader talk here. >> fish rots from the top. -- from the head. anyway, the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, all three will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball." ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ to take advantage of this offer on a volvo s90, visit your local dealer. to take advantage of this offer on a volvo s90, if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me, and you're talking to your rheumatologist about a medication... ...this is humira. this is humira helping to relieve my pain... ...and protect my joints from further damage. humira has been clinically studied for over 18 years. humira works by targeting and helping to...

...block a specific source... ...of inflammation that contributes to ra symptoms. it's proven to help relieve pain and... ...stop further joint damage in many adults. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers, including lymphoma, have happened, as have blood, liver, and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions, and new or worsening heart failure. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you've been to areas... ...where certain fungal infections are common and if you've had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. don't start humira if you have an infection. talk to your doctor and visit humira.com this is humira at work. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. glenn, tell me something i don't know. >> the problem with the shake-up is you've got to get new people to come in, and nobody wants to come in. this director job we've been

talking about with dubke leaving. four people have been asked according to my sources and four people have said no already. >> david urban coming in as chief of staff? >> don't know about that. i hear not likely. >> jared kushner does talk. he talks a lot to foreign leaders, to business leaders and people in the white house. he's very influential in that administration. if he is crippled or hobbled by this investigation, it's going to throw the president and the white house off balance. >> why is he talking to the russians? >> well, you'll have to ask -- we'll wait and see. >> that's what i want to know. >> so as we're all talking about and thinking about russia, the trump administration is doing some really consequential things in the federal agencies. my colleagues had a big, important story today about efforts in three and more agencies to roll back civil rights protections, to eliminate programs that are designed to help minority communities, and it's a really consequential shift. >> who's happy with that? >> the trump base, and this is what the president wants to do. >> unfortunately that's what they want to do. bad news. anyway, glenn thrush, shannon, and phil.

good work on television today in that briefing. up next, the return of the house of cards. i'll be joined by one of the stars, michael kelly, next this. is "hardball," where the action is. rage fees. fees? what did you have in mind? i dot know. $4.95 per trade? uhhh. and i was wondering if your brokerage offers some sort of guarantee? guarantee? where we can get our fees and commissions back if we're not happy. so can you offer me what schwab is offering? what's with all the questions? ask your broker if they're offering $4.95 online equity trades and a satisfaction guarantee. if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. manait's a series of is nsmart choices. and when you replace one meal or snack a day with glucerna made with carbsteady to help minimize blood sugar spikes you can really feel it. glucerna. everyday progress.

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oil and gas get where they need to go safely. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. welcome back to "hardball." at times with this scandal plagued presidency, it feels like we're having a real life version of "house of cards." president trump like the fictional frank underwood values loyalty above all else. let's watch this clip from season five of "house of cards." >> what's going on, doug? what's happening? is this some issue with your commitment, your loyalty? >> what? >> perhaps you just aren't worthy of my trust. >> i have given everything to you, almost the entirety of my professional life, frank. >> you watch your tone. >> the things i've done, the

things that i have done to help keep you here, and you're going to question my loyalty? >> anyway, the good news for those who watch the show, the show returns today. i spoke with michael kelly, who plays doug stamper, frank underwood's chief of staff, on "house of cards." here it is. you know, you're the guy identified in this movie because i used to be one of these guys. i tell you, i love loyalty. by the way, the way this screen play works is so true. you're 99% successful. you make one mistake, and that's all the boss thinks about. you have to put up with these kind of crappy scenes like that. what did you make of it? >> it's the one thing that you cannot question about doug stamper is his loyalty. that was a low blow from the president and a tough one as well. >> you'd been killing people for him, right? >> exactly. the one thing you can't question is doug stamper's loyalty. >> i saw a clip. i've been told i'm not supposed to give anything away. i have to say, i've noticed in

the coming episodes that this president underwood has the same sort of problem the current real president has, which is not quite understanding the checks and balances to put it lightly. what he does with the congress and shows what underwood in showing his absolute physical contempt for the existence of congress is definitely way up there over the top. your thoughts about that compared to trump? >> i mean, look, well, we are over the top. the good thing about our show is that it is make believe. this is a television show, and with frank underwood as president, he can do whatever he wants, and the repercussions are not real. so there's a distinct difference between the two, both of them having -- well, i'll leave it at that. >> they both hate the press. that's fair, right? >> fair, yes. yes. >> so when is this -- you have obviously seen the end of this. is this season the last season or is there more come something is this guy going to have some sort of macbeth ending or what? >> i've read the full season.

i've not seen -- that was the first clip i've seen from the season so far. they've given it to me. i choose to watch it with my wife together because we're both fans of the show. so we watch it together. >> that's good. that's loyal. >> my guess is that we would probably do one more after this, but they hen announced anything. they keep us just as in the dark. >> i don't know if you've noticed about this administration, trump. he's sort of like -- i'm compared it to a royal family like the romanovs with his family members all around. he goes to see the pope. he's got ivanka there, her husband. he's got to bring his receitinu with him everywhere he goes. you've got robin playing his vice president. it's very close to reality here. ivanka could be his next vice president. >> you know, she very well

could. it's crazy to think that, you know. this whole thing has been all unprecedented ground, right? every single day something new happens that's unprecedented. it's like how do we deal with that, and everything is playing catchup if you know what i mean. but for our show, i mean, it is -- like i said, it's make believe, and these things happen, and hopefully it will be a fun escape for people to step away from the real life politics. >> that's michael kelly, a really good guy. plays a bad guy of course. "house of cards" is back today. i guess you can watch the whole thing all night. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. it will be interesting how he likes it. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. there's nothing traditional about my small business so when

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trump watch, tuesday, may 30th, 2017. the intriguing fact of donald trump is that what you see is not necessarily or even probably what some other people in this countrsee. you saw our president last week shoving his way past a prime minister, giving a weird handshake to the president of france, riding in a golf cart while the european leaders took a gentile stroll together.

our people see our president showing these foreign leaders were not so impressed , not joining in with him, acting exceptional like we really are. they see trump telling those sophisticated europeans if they don't pay their share, we may not bother to be there when they need us. he was putting america first in their european faces. the polls show that a good number of americans out there like what they saw trump doing in europe. maybe it was melania being dignified. just as likely, it was the president being trump. a friend of mine did advertising for the movies way back when. he told me this weekend there were certains scenes from the movies he avoided showing in ads like the eiffel tower because people in certain parts of this country didn't want to see a movie that didn't look european, or making sure no nun showed up in the advertisements for "the sound of music." you can probably figure that one out. not everybody sees the same thing when they look at donald trump. believe this or not, out of every five people in this

country, at least two of them think exactly like what he's doing. sleep tight. that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> in general terms, back channels are an appropriate part of diplomacy. >> the white house tries to defend jared kushner's reported back channel to the kremlin. >> did the president discuss it, though? >> i'm not going to get into what the president did or did not discuss. >> then they're the president's personal attorney. >> he's a very talented lawyer, a good lawyer in my firm. >> michael cohen now reportedly refusing to cooperate. >> says who? >> tonight, a white house in disarray as investigations inch closer to the president. then, assessing the fallout from the president's first foreign trip. rebecca traceter on hillary clinton and her russian warnings.