night 6:00 p.m. eastern. if you can't watch live, set your dvr. check out my facebook page for behind the scenes videos and much more. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. covfefe. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington, a city only now getting uses to a new road, covfefe. a murky time, but the clouds are about to open. former fbi director james comey has been cleared to testify before the united states intelligence committee. he could answer three giant questions for the recordor history, and for the future of this presidency. did trump ask him to drophe federal investigation of trump's national security adviser michael flynn?

did trump ask him to swear a personal allegiance of loyalty to him? did comey, as the president has claimed, tell him on three separate occasions that he was not being investigated for involvement in the russian effort to influence the 2016 american presidential election? three great questions. we may get the answers soon, within a week. a congressional aide tells nbc news that blockbuster testimony could happen as early as next week. anyway, "the wall street journal" reports comey is expected to testify that president donald trump asked him to back off the investigation of flynn. i'm joined by ken dilanian, robert costa, heidi przybyla, and peter baker. i'm going to throw each one of these questions by you and i want to ask you. first of all, ken, what would you ask about the flynn matter? >> well, i would ask, you know -- >> if you got this guy in the box. >> look, i would ask is it true, did he ask -- did president trump ask jim comey to go easy on mike flynn. the larger question i would ask

is did trump ask comey to put the kibosh on the russian investigation, and does comey believe he was fired because he didn't do that. >> heidi? >> what was his understanding of i hope you can forget about it, i hope you can move on. what more was said? >> what are the possible interpretations. >> according to the republicans, like it was just -- is it a suggestion, or was it an order? but to anyone who is looking at this and observing, he's the boss. anything that is said like that can be taken as an order, and so it is -- when we walk away from this after this testimony, are we left politically -- forget the legal stuff, but politically with the impression that he was essentially trying to stop this case cold. >> let me go to peter on that. what would you like to know more about the story we have already about him asking to get off flynn's back? >> well, i think those are a good qstio a i think you have to als ask why didn't he do something about it at the time? what was his reaction at the time? he went on to be fbi director for a couple months after that

conversation. did he perceive that at that time as obstruction, and if that's the case, then, you know, what was his obligation at that point to do something about that? he didn't say anything about it, and it only came out after he was fired. why was that? i think people would like to know that question as well. >> is it important that he has notes, contemporary notes? >> yeah, absolutely. you know, i can't imagine that senators won't ask him to read from those notes or have the notes there to be read into because they are contemporaneous, and presumably they were logged or dated at some point. he apparently did show them to at least a few people at the time who can presumably verify that these are created at the moment of the conversation, and therefore that gives them a certain extra credibility as a matter of evidence. >> robert, he asked the fbi director, who he did not appoint, who was there before he got there and is a public servant, to drop the investigation of his national security adviser about the russian involvement. what would you ask more about

that, that we don't already know? >> well, to follow up on peter's smart point, i want to know who else -- i'm sure investigators want to know the same. who else was informed by then director comey about these notes, about these exchanges? what did attorney general jeff sessions know? what did rod rosenstein know? who else can help corroborate whatever portrait that's painted by comey when he comes before congress because the full picture here is not really clear. if it was obstruction, why didn't he speak out? if it was murky, did he consult with the justice department's lawyers? how did it unfold behind the scenes? >> let me follow with you and go backwards with the group the other direction. robert, what do you make of his call to comey for personal loyalty to him? how would you want that interpreted by mr. comey himsf, wt that could possibly have meant? >> i want to know what comey's follow-up questions were to the president. a broad loyalty oath sounds

strange. what does that even mean? but what did the president mean by saying that to then-dire dir comey. what was he expecting and did comey follow up about what the president's expectations or directives were? the context and nuance is going to have a lot of impact in terms of whether this moves forward as a legal problem or not. >> it sounds like a dictator just pulled off a coup. >> we may not know the full picture of what the extent of the interactions were because trump himself, another tweet in mouth moment, said, you assured me three times i'm not under investigation. >> i'm getting to that question. >> okay. sorry. >> you jumped the gun on that. >> i want to know were there any other instances and were there other people in the white house who may have, you know, dirt on their hands in terms of this? >> nobody believes the president about this. let's go to ken on this. two questions. first of all, the loyalty oath and the question of trump's

claim that comey told him three times, you're clear. >> people i've talked to close to comey and former fbi officials, as you said, nobody believes that james comey would say that to the president of the united states. in fact, one person i talked to said they rehearsed how to answer that question in a way that would be appropriate. sir, you don't want to know. you know, we can't discuss this kind of thing. the other thing is i have some reporting on peter's good point, which is why didn't comey resign and report this as obstruction of justice to the attorney general? >> on the flynn matter. >> on all of this stuff he thought was appropriate. he thought he could manage the situation, people are telling me. he thought it was inappropriate. he was concerned, but he wanted to remain as fbi director. so what he decided to do is write memos every time he talked to the president, memorialize it in case this situation happened, but try to remains an independent fbi director. in the end, it didn't work out. >> back to you, peter. the question of is comey going to come off well in these hearings next week if it gets to the question of why didn't you walk? why did you think you could,

quote, manage your relationship with the president who asked you to basically be his employee? >> well, look, the knock on james comey, of course, from democrats as well as republicans, but particularly democrats who are close to hillary clinton, was that he was, you know, supremely confident in his own judgment to the point that he defied justice department guidelines last year and sort of presumed to, you know, make statements publicly about the e-mail investigation and so forth. certainly you could see that narrative being addressed or explored in this hearing. you know, why was he so supremely confident in his ability to manage a president rather than take action at time? certainly an interesting question. it's also an interesting question, are there other instances we don't know about yet that did trouble him that he did report, that he did take notes on, that he did, you know, memorialize as we were just saying? you know, i don't know that we know the full extent of this set of interactions at this point. >> i want to start with robert on this. it's a question of if there is some kind of obstruction, whether it's legal,

constitutional, whatever, unconstitutional, there is an attempt to hide something. the question is, what is so tricky or dangerous about the conversations between kislyak and the russian bank president and the son-in-law that is so important to hide either with the fifth amendment or whatever, every technique? they're all lawyering up. why don't they just tell us what those meetings were about, robert? is it an elephant in the room, or is it an ant or something in between? what is so bad that they'd rather take this heat, see their presidency get gobbled up by this rather than tell us what happened? >> what's intriguing is that kushner's attorney, jamie gorelick has said he's willing to testify on capitol hill about these meetings but that testimony has not yet happened of course. i think the question that looms over these exchanges and convsations th russian officials and figures is this. were sctions discussed? was anything regarding the kushner company's finances.

>> reporter: -- or projects discussed? and how do these things intertwine in the conversation? this is speculation. it's still a lot of reporting to be done, but that's the key question. >> wait a minute. peter, you picked up on this. why don't they just walk into the damn press room and answer all the questions about all the meetings right now? what are they mightihiding that criminal, unconstitutional, sticky? you know, what are they hiding? why doesn't kushner talk? he doesn't even talk, that guy. why doesn't he walk into the room and answer all the questions? are they elite? are they beyond us? >> certainly as a reporter, that would be my preference. i always urge everybody to come forward and answer our questions. i do think, chris, you've been around washington long enough to know. you know, an unprepared answering of questions can lead to more problems than they solve, right? certainly yif you had asked the clintons about the times they were asked to answer questions about whitewater, they got themselves into more trouble sometimes than they intended to

put to rest. so it depends on -- you know, he said he's willing to testify on the hill. the hill hasn't tested that invitation, but that's probably, from his lawyer's point of view, the more proper venue for him to tell his story. but it's going to be tricky because therare a lot of questions here, and a lot of things that look odd and curious and haven't been answered. and whether they can give satisfying answers or not, that's a very open question. >> the question i have is there's a discrete -- a limited number of meetings involving the trump people, the son-in-law and flynn, and even go back to carter page, who is maybe off the wall somewhere else on his own, and manafort. these meetings can be discussed right now. you had meetings. you had conversations. what weret they about? that isn't like whitewater or all the complicated things with the clintons. this is cut and dried. you met with these guys. you never met them before this

past year. what did you talk about? go ahead, peter. what's so complicated. >> i would say that, you know -- let's just say for the sake of argument, they had many, many dozens of meetings with various people in the process of a transition, and they were to get up and testify on the hill or to speak to reporters, and they were to give some answer that was left than fulsome if there memory had not been fully prepared and so forth, there is evidence that there could be other records of those meetings that could contradict them. that's where you get in trouble obviously. we've already seen that the russians have their own records of some of these meetings. obviously some of these russians are under surveillance through the natural course of our counter -- you know, our surveillance techniques. so anybody who would be asked to speak about these things would want to make sure they gave the full answers without being caught, you know, giving a half answer. >> heidi? >> to me, the really problematic

meeting was actually the meeting with the banker because the official line is that maybe they needed this back channel in order to try and bring peace to syria. what would a banker, a russian banker, have to do with that any more than a german banker or a banker from any other part of the world? you have to put this all in context of what was happening in the time. >> well, you help us with syria, we'll relieve the sanctions. i can see that deal. >> that flynn was discussing sanctions with kislyak, these are things that we know, which was that trump wanted to potentially explore an executive order lifting those sanctions. you've got to put it in context in terms of -- >> why is that criminal? >> i don't know that it's criminal. >> i spoke to an fbi official who had been briefed on this investigation as of a few months ago, and i don't think they know the answers to these questions that you're raising about what these meetings were about. >> they don't know, but the trump people know it all. jared kushner knows what he did. >> he may well. but we know that the president of the united states, he said, he appears to be trying to stop the investigation. he cited not only the comey interactions but also these -- >> it is destroying his

presidency. i'll get back to you and then peter. it's destroying trump's ability to do anything. nothing's getting done on capitol hill. everybody is absolutely focused on what we're talking about right now, what happened with jared kushner, what happened with kislyak, what happened with the russian banker. we want to know before we can move on. >> seven weeks. that is the window that he has to try and move anything. there's no progress. i mean the house -- what the house did in health care is doa in the senate, and then we've got t zeal witheto deal with ra debt ceiling. >> is it logical to assume what they want to keep secret is more important than a legislative agenda, robert, because this is the price they're paying? >> well, i think their legislative agenda is stalled. they're going to have to jump start it. the party base is getting restless. the russia question, you see the president already moving to outside counsel. inside of the white house, they're trying to farm out all these questions. you saw how spicer responded to

it today. >> let me ask you about covfefe. you know this guy trump better than anybody i know, anybody i trust anyway. bert, what is covfefe me? does that mean i'm falling asleep? what does it mean? >> i'm told by a couple white house insiders that covfefe was a spelling error for coverage, but then the white house instead of saying that and just flatly walking away, they've kind of played into it a little bit to make this kind of inside joke about what it really meant. i'm not so sure what they're up to here, but i'm pretty sure it was a spelling error. >> peter, it's one thing to get up early -- >> snl is -- >> i know. they're ready for it. it's one thing to get up at dawn and start tweeting but to tweet as you're falling asleep is really dangerous apparently. >> it does seem to be, right? it makes you wonder whether he's a little jet lagged. he just got back from a nine-day trip. it looks like the kind of thing i type late at night when i'm falling asleep. suddenly the sentence trails off. it was curious why sean spicer decided to answer the way he did because, you know, he could have

easily laughed it off. he could have made it funny or human, whatever. instead, he said this thing about only several people know what it means as if he was serious, and it made it sound like it was a code or some sort of -- it was i have overy odd. >> i think sean has a very short leash, very short. a choke collar as well. thank you so much, ken dilanian, heidi przybylaprzybyla, robert d peter baker. coming up, it's an open question whether jared kushner's reported back channel to moscow was appropriate. it all comes down to intent and authority. we know he didn't have any authority when he was talking to the russians, and trump wasn't even in office yet. as for intent, we're going to talk about why are they keeping it secret? trump says he wants to make america great again, but critics say -- and i'm won of them, if we pull out of the paris agreement, isn't that an

abdication of us being leaders of the world? isn't that what we like to be, the leaders on the good stuff? so much for that white house shake-up. the president is finding he can't find nearby anybody to re his people. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. he won't like it. this is "hardball." he won't like it, but he may have to answer the question. this is where the action is. technologies out there and adapting them to work for you. the ultrasound that can see inside patients, can also detect early signs of corrosion at our refineries. high-tech military cameras that see through walls, can inspect our pipelines to prevent leaks. remote-controlled aircraft, can help us identify potential problems and stop them in their tracks. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better. when heartburn hits fight back fast with new tums chewy bites. fast relief in every bite.

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do you think back channeling is normal and acceptable? >> it's both normal in my opinion and acceptable. any way that you can communicate with people, particularly organizations that are maybe not particularly friendly to us, is a good thing. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was secretary of homeland security john kelly this weend, defending the use of back cel communications after jared kushner reportedly proposed using one to communicate with russia during his father-in-law's transition to the presidency. the news of kushner's reported proposal to the russian ambassador has raised numerous questions about whether his action was inappropriate or even illegal. however, back channels have been effective tools in resolving or avoiding international conflicts in the past. while he was serving as his brother's attorney general in 1961, bobby kennedy opened a back channel line of

communication to moscow through a soviet spy working in the russian embassy here in washington. that relationship later proved crucial during the fearful days of the cuban missile crisis. it was bobby contact, in fact, who helped president kennedy make the deal that finally ended the standoff and averted nuclear war. the difference is that kushner was a private citizen with no government role. he reportedly did not consult with the sitting obama administration last fall, and further more, he omitted his russian contacts from his security clearance forms. i'm joined by clint watts, a senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute and an msnbc national security analyst, and evan thomas, a renowned historian who has authored biographies of robert kennedy and richard nixon. you know about all these cases. first of all, let's talk about bobby kennedy because i've been working on that project too. but tell me about georgie bowl sha kov and while he was important to the cuban missile crisis.

>> >> he floated the deal thatt saved the world. that was floated through a back channel. he was a soviet intelligence agent. pure back channel. >> i've been watching the americans, like everybody watches the americans, and i'm watching this guy. he's sort of a b.s. artist. he's a drinker, a party guy. >> yeah. >> like good-time charlie. deep down he's an agent, a spy. >> his patron back in moscow was khrushchev's, i think, father-in-law. it was family. >> like today. clint, wha do you make of back channels? nixon tried it. he stopped johnson from pulling a little number before the '68 election, a peace move. >> this doesn't make sense to me for a lot of different reasons. i understand the purpose of back channels, but we're talking about somebody who was not in an official capacity. the other thing is the way he went about doing it. what was he needed to send in a protected way from a russian communications station inside the united states to the russians that he could not share

with anyone in the intelligence community? imagine if you're a u.s. intelligence asset sitting on the other side of the world, and you see communications coming in from kushner, who is in a meeting with flynn, who is under investigation in counterintelligence. we've just seen russia meddling in the election, and you want to know why does he want to communicate this information without the intel community knowing. >> well, forme members of the u.s. intelligence community have said why they have condemned kushner's back channel. let's listen. >> my dashboard warning light was clearly on, and i think that was the case with all of us in the intelligence community. >> what manner of ignorance, chaos, hubris, suspicion, contempt would you have to have to think that doing this with the russian ambassador was a good or an appropriate idea. >> if an american intelligence officer had done anything like this, we'd consider in espionage. >> well, evan, we know the bobby

story. you started itti years ago. the fact is bobby had good intentions. he wanted to convince the russians that his brother wasn't that weak. i'm reading from your book on this. they didn't want the russians to think we were weak after the bay of pigs because they might go for berlin. >> look, i think presidents often feel frustrated by their bureaucracy, right, and the people around them and look for other ways to do it. that can be a terrible idea, but it can also be a good idea. you can see why former intelligence officials hate it. >> yeah. >> because they don't like to be short circuited. they don't like to be undermined. it does create confusion, missed signals. but if you're the president trying to get stuff done -- jfk said, those striped-pants guys. he didn't trust them. >> here's the question. who are you mighting from? in this case, it looks like kushner is hiding from our own people. they don't like the spies, the intelligence community people. they think they're out there to hurt them. but he wasn't hiding from the russian spies.

>> not at all. >> that's the weird part. he says, i'll be glad to talk to you guys, and they're against us. >> the urgency doesn't make sense. what needed to be negotiated with the syrian conflict before inauguration, whether it's flynn or kushner, that could not wait 60 day toss get your secretary of defense on board, mattis, build a comprehensive strategy, set your intelligence collection that way. if you're the russians, think about how it feels. you're now communicating with two administrations with diametrically opposed strategies who are telling you different information. the obama administration is still in office. they're communicating. >> let me ask you the question that has dominated the discussion on this program and everywhere else in this cotry. what is this they talked about that's so bad they won't admit what it was? >> i cannot fathom the urgency or contact that -- there's no reason if there's nothing to hide that they're not coming forward and saying this is what

the discussions were about. this is tough on mcmaster. this is tough on kelly. this is tough on all of those leaders who are basically trying to tamp this down so they can do their jobs. and they're trying to explain why these discussions even need to happen to begin with, and the white house is not coming forward saying this is what we want to do. we still don't know our policy towards russia or towards syria. >> thank you, gentlemen. what are you writing flou? >> sandra day o'connor, first woman supreme court justice. >> big stuff. thank you, evan thomas, clint watts. up next, is president trump ready to pull the plug on the landmark paris climate agreement? it's another example of dismantling the entire, well, western world's legacy, not just the obama legacy. this one comes with real damage for the world, don't you think? this is "hardball," where the action is.

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$21 million los angeles home. back to "hardball" hard. president obama entered the united states into the paris climate accords, unilaterally and without the permission of congress. >> we will cancel this deal so that our companies can compete. welcome back to "hardball." that was candidate trump on the campaign trail promising to pull out of the paris climate agreement. today, president trump is getting closer to delivering on that promise. this morning, website axios reported president trump has made his decision to withdraw from the paris climate accord according to twoources with direct knowledge of the decision. shortly after this story broke, president ump tweeted, quote, i will be announcing my decision on the paris accord foefr the next few days. make america great again. i don't see the connection. anyway, two administration sources tell nbc news that the president is leaning toward pulling out of the agreement,

but no final decision has been made yet. late today, president trump was asked about his position. let's watch him. >> i'm hearing from a bot lot o people both ways. >> the paris accord was a pact signed by 195 countries in 2015 that voluntarily slow global warming. if the united states were to pull out of that agreement, it would join syria and nicaragua as non-signatories. boy, that's a happy list. the debate has divided his circle of advisers. leading the charge to stay are economic adviser gary cohn who impresses, secretary of state rex tillerson and family members jared kushner and ivanka trump. those favoring a withdraw from the deal are the nationalists, of course, steve bannon, don mcgahn, the president's lawyer, and epa administrator scott p

pruitt. i'm joined by mustafa. just give me a little primer here and our viewers. what's the significance of this decision to stay in the climate reent or get out? we should definily stay in. it would be a huge mistake to remove ourselves from this agreement in a number of different ways. the first one would be in relationship to health and making sure that the storms that will increase because of a warming of our planet, greater floods that would also cause some significant damage, both to property and to people's lives, and also the droughts that also come from a warming planet. so we need to make sure that we are partnering with these other 195 countries who are very, very focused on making sure that we are reducing greenhouse gas emissions. we're also going to create an opportunity to make sure that

the economics and the jobs that come from a new climate economy are there, and if we pull away from this agreement, then we lose that opportunity. and we also do a great disrespect to our country when we make these commitments to 195 other countries and then we just remove ourselves from that process. that shows a lack of leadership, and it also shows a lack of forward thinking about the relationships that we are going to immediate to be able to address this very significant problem that is facing us. >> when president trump was ceo, he often called climate change a hoax. back in 2013, he tweeted, i ice storm rolls from texas to tennessee. i'm los angeles, and it's freezing. global warming is a total and very expensive hoax. again, white house press secretary sean spicer was asked tuesday about the president's current position on climate change. here's what he said. >> can you say whether or not the president believes that human activity is contributing to the warming of the climate? >> honestly, i haven't asked

him. i can get back to you. >> what is that, a job action? companies like chevron, b.p., and apple have urged president trump to stay in the deal. let me get back to mustapha on this because i'm trying to think about how staying in or not staying in could make a difference. i'm looking at places like miami, of course, where the water level is going up to the city level. the new york city situation, out there on that island of new york, you have to wonder how long is it going to take before the water just rises up so that the water table or whatever -- i mean you're filling up everything, all the water lines, the sewers. everything is underwater. it's not that far away. even if we stay in the agreement, can we prevent what's coming in the next 20, 30 years? >> we can definitely lessen some of the impacts that are coming, and we can also show real leadership. you know, if you look at a community like princeville, north carolina, which had a 1,000-year flood, how do you tell those folks, aafrican-american community that's been there since slavery times were over, that your community doesn't matter. you know, i had the opportunity

to work in katrina and sandy and a number of the other storms that we've had to deal with, and i've seen firsthand how that impacts people's lives, how that impacts culture, how that impacts the exist inside of communities. so when you talk about removing yourself from this agreement, you are telling these communities that your lives don't matter. >> i think around the globe, just to add to what you've said, which is you look at the sudan, you look over in africa. you look in somalia, places like that. all that drought leads to all that war. it leads to all that hell, all that immigration, the desperate immigration. everything seems to be related to climate right now. thank you, sir. up next, it turns out you can't have a white house shake-up if you can't find anyone to fill the jobs. the rumors are swirling about reince priebus and sean spicer, but how are you going to get them on the chopping block if there's nobody to replace them? you're watching "hardball," where the action is.

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hey, i've got the trend analysis. hey. hi. hi. you guys going to the company picnic this weekend? picnics are delightful. oh, wish we could. but we're stuck here catching up on claims. but we just compared historical claims to coverages. but we have those new audits. my natural language api can help us score those by noon. great. see you guys there. we would not miss it. watson, you gotta learn how to take a hint. i love to learn.

welcome back to "hardball." the new york times and politico are reporting that president trump and his son-in-law, jared kushner, are increasingly isolated today and hunkering down as the political storm continues to grow. in what seems like constant rumors of shake-up in the white house. there are reports that the president is driving away potential candidates for west wing jobs, and this comes after the news that his communications director just walked. he just resigned. and over the weekend, "the washington post" reported that trump associates said there have been conversations about dispatching priebus to serve as ambassador to greece. is that a joke? who knows? let's bring in the roundtable "hardball," howard fineman, sabrina siddiqui, political reporter for the guardian. what do you think of this kathy griffin thing? >> look, i think that -- >> you know where the line is these days? i think it's getting blurry. >> it's getting blurry, and she did apologize. she knows she crossed the line. i think everyone on both the left and the right were unanimous in the fact that it

was inappropriate and went too far. i think that the only thing that some people would say was that, you know, there was a lot that was tolerated with respect to obama in terms of hate speech directed at his race. consequences were not paid to those people who were behind those. look, i think kathy griffin apologized because she -- >> you can't hold up a replica of somebody's severed head and consider it a joke. what's in and what's out now? that's out. >> what about a left arm or something? like is there -- do we have like -- i think there's going to be some degrees of -- no. obviously, we draw the line at murder, right? >> colbert crossed the line a couple weeks ago. >> that's true. >> we all know that, with his line. howard? >> i would just say if you get in a race to the bottom -- >> aren't we in it? >> but if you want to get in the race to the bottom with some of the people in the trump entourage, and the trump mentality, you're going to lose. if people on the left who oppose donald trump think that's the way to do it --

>> outgross them? >> yeah, they're going to lose. and it was hideous and wrong. >> good for you. >> you know t clearly was an attempt to draw attention to herself. this is not the kind of attention i think she would have wished to draw. >> it's so hard to gross people out today. i'm sorry, the standard is so off. "the washington post" reported the trump administration is moving toward handing back to russia two diplomatic compounding near new york city and near maryland's eastern shore shore. so that story talks for itself. the tru jonathan, here's the question. who wants to go work for trump these days? >> not many people. this is why the names that you hear are people like corey lewandowski. corey has nothing to lose. he is slavishly loyal to donald trump. nobody in the white house trusts him or likes him besides donald trump, steve bannon, maybe keith schiller at a stretch. he's widely regarded as one of

the most dishonest people in politics. >> and he's been talked about as a comeback kid. howard, you're laughing because it's ludicrous. >> i'm not laughing. i think skbrjohn's absolutely r. i think part of it is there are three brancheof government and they're all inside the white house, crammed in there. there's three. there's the nationalists, the new york money people, and then there's the republican regulars, who are priebus and sean and so on. if you go in, you've got to know which faction you're working for because the other two factions are going to be against you. >> how do you blame -- >> that's what i was going to say. the problem the white house has is not with its staff. the problem it has is with its president. it doesn't matter who comes and who goes. yes, there are different competing voices in his ear. yes, they have different degrees of influence depending on the topic. but no one is going to stop him except for a temporary time-out from tweeting. no one is going -- >> they can't even stop -- >> can i just say something?

the idea that corey lewandowski is going to fix anything, it's like sending in the gasoline. it's just insane. >> you made the key point, though, about lewandowsky, which he is -- which is that he is slavishly loyal for donald trump. now, donald trump has set up this situation. this is the way he ran his business, with sort of a floating poker game going on all around him so he could avoid chain of command responsibility. he set this system up. but yet at the same time, he wants people who are totally savishly loyal. >> he's going to end up with some real drek. the roundtable is sticking with us. next, these people tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball." are teaming up in so many new ways. like new coastal lobster and shrimp, with a lobster tail with butter and herbs, sweet, smoky bbq red shrimp, and shrimp crusted with...get this...cape cod kettle chips. or try lobster and shrimp overboard. a dish this good... makes you this hungry. it's the highlight of the season, and can't last.

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it's travel, better connected. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. howard, tell me something i don't know. >> this is going to sound strak but it's true. this thing about global warming is about the arctic with the russians. the russians are in favor of global warming. they want it to melt because they want to drill and ship. >> a new alliance is being forged between the european union and china as other countries expect trump to withdraw from the climate agreement. so the question is who is going to take on the leadership void left by the united states? it appears it's going to be beijing. ironic because they were one of the most reluctant participants in the accord to begin with. >> paris deal, trump has told pruitt he's going to withdraw. the plans are in place. the speeches are being drafted and redrafted. the announcement time has been set. the epa internally are -- >> are they going to change the name of the epa to something else? it can't be called --

>> the last thing people say is he could have a dream about elon musk. >> mitch mcconnell is going to be mad. i'll tell you that. >> howard, sabrina and jonathan. thank you. this is "hardball," where the action i to make everything work better. i call it the internet of everything, but it's really the internet of everyday life. ♪ the partnership between dell technologies and sap helps make the promise of the internet of things a reality for our customers. we know how powerful live data can be. we use sap at dell to run everything from finance to procurement to travel expenses. and that's the same kind of live insight we can now start offering to all of our customers. and as we get better information, better insights, it can improve virtually every aspect of society and the economy.

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matched wits with a liberal intellectualactivist. he would pose to his visitor a question in the genre of, are you still beating your wife? the person's response would set the phone for the hour that followed. here's a taste of that banter that characterized firing line. >> if i understand your philosophy here, i find it difficult to do. >> do you want to understand my philop? >> desperately. >> you do? well, can you sort of be desperately silent for about one minute or two minutes. >> i say the greeks' testimony is more interesting to me than yours. >> which greek testimony? the testimony of the thousands of people who were thrown into jail? >> i grant not the testimony that -- >> from my point of view, what elijah muhammad is doing to you is diseasing your mind. you sit and tell me that we white people like to divide and

conquer. >> you do. >> i grew up as a white child. i heard much more talk against democrats than i did against black people. >> i'm joined by author alvin feltenberg. i don't think people appreciate this guy's role in the 1950s to get people like me excited about politics. >> he loved debate. people forget he was a winning captain of the yale debate team the four years he was there. this is one of the great secrets -- not a great secret, but people didn't know that. what really brought him to the national stage was when he ran for mayor. >> new york city. >> new york had ten newspapers. there was a newspaper strike. so the electronic media covered it, and he was running a -- >> well, you're not a conservative, are you? >> i am. i'm center right. >> center right. so what made you want to write about buckly? >> i couldn't think of a -- >> i liked his wars with the warhawks because i'm not a

warhawk. he went after w., and i was so glad he finally did. people like george will did too. enough of these stupid wars. >> well, this was the beginning of the break in the right. as long as the soviet union was strong and on the march, he was willing to give presidents the benefit of the doubt. in fact, he supported the invasion. he just felt, look, when they think they have the weapons, tter go in and be embarrassed later than theopposite. however, five years later, why are we there? wee there totop them from doing what they would do if we're not there, which is kil themselves. >> you described the significance of buckley's opposition to the iraq war writing buckley was doing more than taking a final swipe at bush. he was advocating a more constrained presidency in which incumbents acted less on their own authority and their own vision in closer collaboration with congress, and in ways that preserved and advanceddy certainable and definable american interests. we have a president now who claims to be looking out for america's interest. i don't get it.

wh what he's doing over in europe now, trashing the alliance with europe, the marshall plan, everything we built since world war ii, you know, i think buckley was the most reasonable guy in the world compared to this guy. >> he would not recognize the world where the soviet -- or the former -- there i go again. where russia seems to have a greater sale ye yens in the whi house than germany. so much of the cold war was fought over germany. >> where is that now? where is that strain of people that read books, write books, write columns, take this sing seriously, this conservative mop movement. ? >> the movement is having a great deal of difficulty. there are people like george will and bret stephens. >> will can't stand trump. >> these are what i call the last of the buckley conservatives. they need to pick up, i think, the torch, bring it to the campus, do what bill did, build a movement. >> that's true. >> when he started out, he was the only one. my students don't seem to

remember this. it took him 30 years. he was the only conservative out there. he did 70 colleges a year. he built chapters wherever he went, and people have to do this. >> he's the one that got me excited as a kid, and i moved ft on a lot of issues. bui tell you, he the one that made me thinks about this business back in the 50s. he made me think. anyway, and see the fun in it too. >> when he ran for mayor, he was so disarming. one of the greatest lines in the debate. how would you differentiate among your opponents? he would say, mr. lindsey is 6'5". he would be a very tall liberal. mr. beav is 5'1", a very short liberal. so the differences are more biological than ideological. >> the book is called, a man and his presidents. the political odyssey of william f. buckley. thank you. you also were a spokesman for the 9/11 commission. >> i was, yes. >> when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball."

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trump watch, wednesday, may 31st, 2017. what is michael flynn hiding? what is jared kushner hiding, and what is donald trump hide something this is the question of this presidency. i can think of all kinds of motives why trump won't release his tax returns. he doesn't want the press to have months of leads to track down an exponential growth in opportunity, or he doesn't have the wealth he claims he has, or

he simply likes to keep his personal business personal or, i almost forgot, he didn't pay any taxes. i get that taxes thing. a final one being, it didn't hurt him as a candidate. it probably won't hurt him, he's decided, as president. but this russia stuff, what are we to make of this giant secret? what jusfies keeping secret that has, as long as it's been a secret, thrown his presidency into a dungeon about the key thrown away? why does he put himself down there with the rats and the other vermin? why does he choose to live in darkness, locked day and night in this russia story so he can't enjoy an hour of joy in his presidency? just how bad can the truth be? did he and his son-in-law sit down and figure how to use the american presidency to build some hotel chain with russian money? why the hush-hush? why the lawyering up, the fifth amendment stuff, the endless foot dragging?

why not walk into the white house press room today with general flynn right now, mr. president, and jared, and whoever else was doing something with the russians on his behalf and spill the beans? could it be worse than spilling a presidency? that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> that dinner was arranged. i think he asked for the dinner. >> countdown to comey day. >> i said, if it's possible, would you let me know am i under investigation? >> james comey officially cleared to give his version of events on live television. tonight, what comey will say and why the white house is suddenly clamming ups hillary clinton comes right out and says it. it's a vast russian conspiracy. well, it turned out we were right. >> then the alarming backstory to kushner's meeting with putin's banker. plus --