ravioli up the food chain. the arizona department of transportation says while some exceptions do apply, the colander head dress is a bit meatball so the state will void the license. don't you worry, you flying spaghetti monster believers, say he will take his battle to court if necessary. that will wrap things up for me this hour. i'll going to go grab a plate of pasta. >> you made me hungry. a great afternoon to you. good afternoon. right now the white house fighting critics on a two-front war. on the one hand, administration officials are dealing with the back lash from president trump's decision to exit the paris climate deal. they're categorically refusing to say whether or not the president is a climate change skeptic. on the other hand, russia. vladimir putin taking the world stage talking to my nbc news colleague megyn kelly. he raised eyebrows when he said

this about his country's alleged interference in the 2016 election. >> it is easy to say, it is not our fault, it is the russians. they intervened, they interfered. the jews are to blame. you're an idiot because the jews are to blame. >> to kind of oversimplify the russia investigation, it is really a search for answers, who did what when. jared kushner met with a russian banker sergi gorkov. he said it was a business meeting with kushner as the head of the family firm but the warning about is under u.s. sanctions so it couldn't have been a business meeting unless kushner was planning to break u.s. law by doing business with that bank or unless they were discussing the removal of sanctions. both are bad scenarios. so nbc's reporter tried ask

gorkov himself. >> it is good to see you. >> a conversation about it. >> there is some confusion. >> were you talking about business? >> would you be prepared to talk to the fbi? mr. gorkov? i'm sorry. just a question of understanding what happened in the meeting. >> please. >> was it a political meeting? was it an economic meeting? could we interview you at a later date? >> please. >> if it is an innocent meeting, why don't you want to talk about it? mr. gorkov, if it was an innocent meeting with mr. kushner, why don't you want to

talk about it? >> please don't push me out of the way. i just want to ask you about the meeting that you had with jared kushner. we really do want to hear. if it was an innocent meeting, please explain what happened in the meeting. >> now from st. petersburg, russia. you weren't getting an answer out of him. you really do get award for trying. the two sides have both said the meeting was about different things but nobody really knows when the meeting was, where it was held and we don't know what was said. >> right. sergei gorkov is head of a bank which is very, very, very closely tied to the kremlin. it was involved in financing the sochi he winter olympics, heavily involved in ukraine and we know the issues russia had with ukraine. some people have called the bank

russia's laser guided diplomatic weapon. others describe it as president putin's slush fund. the truth is somewhere in between there which brings you to the question, why was the head of that bank going to meet with jared kushner? now as you mentioned, they are subject to sanctions so perhaps the meeting was simply about, is it a change to the sanctions? it could be because it was suggested by the bank that it was something to do with business going on here. we simply don't know. i tried to ask. didn't get any answers. >> there are official responses from both gorkov's side and jared kushner's lawyers but they don't, the answers don't match. >> that's right. one side says it was about business. the other side says jared kushner was there as a member of the transition team and that is what it was about.

then we haven't really heard from them since then. another point about the bank. it was, one of the bankers in new york was deported just last year, accused of spying so there are also lots of suggestions of links to the sfb, the new name for the kgb. so it is murky. we can't cast dispersions without knowing what happened at the meeting but we don't know what happened at the meeting. >> and you're trying to get those answers. >> good work on that. continuing on try to get answers on this very complicated question. let's go to the white house. kelly o'donnell is with us. so many questions on russia. a lot of questions, none of which sean spicer wished to answer in the meeting. >> they have a new policy and they're going to reflexively refer to it every time these questions come up.

that is to refer any questions related to the russia investigation to the president's outside counsel in new york. >> the problem is reporters haven't been able to get any response from his office. so it is an abyss which the press secretary is able to toss questions and we get no answers. separately on the matter of jared kushner, through the president's spokesperson, a firm affirmation that jared kushner is held in high regard by the president. that he is working on behalf of the country. and that he is involved and engaged in his portfolio which is always been considerable. of course, the president's he son-in-law which has been brought into this discussion because of inquiries about some of his contacts with russia, today from the lectern, sean spicer did say the president has full confidence in jared kushner, in his role here. we have not seen him publicly in the last few days but they say he is engaged in meetings and

working on things. for the white house, this is a strategic move to try compel questions and conversation and events around the things they want to talk about. agenda items. right now behind the scenes, our colleague kristin welker is in the diplomatic room acting on behalf of the pool where the president is signing a couple bills that relate to veterans and law enforcement. that's where they want the discussion to go. and at this point we were told, no expectation yet one way or the other if the white house will try to assert executive privilege when it comes to james comey, the fired fbi director testifying next week. executive privilege is something that sometimes stops executive branch witnesses from appearing before congress on matters over time. it is rare but within the purview to try and assert such privilege. we don't get any indication that they will do that. but they wouldn't give us a clear answer. >> hard to do with the former head of the filibuster because this is a guy who has access to

good legal information, ability to get his story out. >> yes, he does. and this would cover his time as part of the executive branch and co-he certainly talk about things after his time in government service and that would be much more wide open. i'm not a lawyer so i don't want to overstate rules. but it is a question that needed answering woflt the white house try to slow down or stop comey from appearing. instead of saying flat out no, they're saying the advisory just went out about the date and time in which comey would appear. so they haven't made a decision. >> this is a flavor, to those meerns didn't watch the press briefings as often as we journalists did, there's a new flavor, there aren't flat-out no's and yes's. today was about 70%. yesterday was another one of them. it is becoming more the flavor of the briefings. >> and it is strikingly different than the last couple of presidents. at times you would get those

answers but you could bore down a day or so later and get some answer. not on every topic. but the depth of the nonanswers and the deflections is significant. and it is frustrating to reporters and it is frustrating to try to get answers. on some matters that ought to be well within the public realm. the president's views on climate change should probably not be a secret at this point. and he has a record of his views in the past as candidate. so there's a question to be asked about what does he believe now? >> as a candidate, he said it was a hoax. he was asked twice today, pruitt and sean spicer were both asked whether the president still believes it is a hoax, and there was no answer. kelly o'donnell at the white house. i'll get into climate change a little later. i want to get some answer. joining me to talk about all this, two people who are practicing something not all that common on the him,

bipartisanship. tom reid of zmork democratic congressman josh from new jersey. thank you for being with us. give us a bit so our viewers know, who haven't heard about the caucus, what it is you are planning to do, congressman reid. >> on the republican side, i am so pleased to work the democratic chair. we represent 40 members, 20 on each side that are trying to governor, to organizing to get to yes. we're voting as a bloc and influencing the agenda out of washington. the leadership that josh has exbited should be given credit and i tip my hat to him. >> why as a bloc? what does that do for you and how does it limit members? >> the key is to find a way to yes. we talk about this. instead of showing up and finding ways to scream at each other, get 40 people to sit down every week in washington to figure out how we can move forward as a country. we clearly have challenges.

infrastructure or tax reform. what we've been focused on, and tom has done an excellent job, where can we find common ground? so we've really been putting our working caps on on tax reform, infrastructure is where we spend most of the time. we're looking at other places, regulatory reform that we can look forward on. and really, it is the common ground area, not the division. >> however, congressman reed, the division is what a lot of people live these days. so for instance, russia. we just finished talking about russia. how do you make progress on the russia investigation stuff when there isn't much partisan agreement on it. >> when you have that type of approach, i think we'll get to the bottom of it and that's the right thing to do. >> congressman, i just want to play something that he said

today to megyn kelly about bickering. >> so i believe that we should stop this idle prattle which i believe is harmful and transferring the political bickering of the united states beyond the borders of the country. >> in fairness, congressman, there's been internal bickering in the united states since the day it started which is something most americans are somewhat proud of. at least our right to do that. what do you make of the fact that's what vladimir putin pointed out? >> i think you should put your finger on it. that's what our country is based on. debate. the question is, can we get together and make progress? i think putin is the last one to talk about this. >> we have to be able to walk and chew gum. that's what the american public wants.

they want to us keep working on the challenges and you can only do that if you work together and sit down together. otherwise nothing gets done. our challenge when we get back to washington is to find those places we can work together. that's what it is about. i think people look at you, really? in this day and age, you're big to work together? i think if we want to do anything, fix those roads or get taxes down, it will have to be together. >> congressman, i believe you have a town hall coming up. i have some video of a town hall in february. folks were pretty intense about russia and about health care. what do you think will happen at your next town hall meeting and will this idea of being the problem solvers caucus be helpful to you? tell me about this. >> we've always done town halls and we have four more scheduled tomorrow. we're 250 plus of these and i believe in them. i believe in having a conversation. i guess it comes from being the youngest of 12 and being raised in a household where there was a

lot of disagreement. at the end of the day, we were all part of the same family. that's how i look at americ we're all american citizens. we can bicker but i'll do the hard work e listen to people and find the common ground. that's why the problem solvers caucus is so important. i hear it so often. people want to us govern and solve the american people's problems. >> you're the youngest of 12? i've never known that about you. >> i got eight older sisters and three older brothers. >> and he looks pretty good. that's impressive. >> again, i get what you're trying to do and i applaud you. let me start by saying i'm sure our viewers do. i guess i'm trying on drill down to make sure you're not pie in the sky about this whole thing. we've got james comey coming to testify before congress next week. we have a lot of republicans who want to know what he has and what he knows about russia

colluding with the trump campaign. we have a problem with leaks, unmasking. how do you go forward? you have james comey, you have work to do. how do democrats move forward with this? >> well, we'll want to be watching, too. what people want, i believe, just talking on folks, especially being home now. they want accountability. they want to you get to the bottom of it. they want the facts. they also insist that you do your job. and they want to you solve problems at the same time. so i think democrats, if we're smart and do what's right, what i think people want, the things they hired us for. clean drinking water or tax reform or fixing the roads and bridges. they want you to actually do your job. and so i think it can't be an either/or case. i think that's what the democrats need to do and that will make the real difference going forward. >> good. a little self-awareness for the party and what youpresent. let's get same from you. what do republicans need to do differently in your opinion to

get it done some whands the two of you were doing. what influence would you like to do to have on your fellow republicans in the house and the senate? >> well, the problem solvers, it is growing on both sides. we've already moved the needle west moved as a voting bloc on the government funning situation. we came together on a letter to our leadership and the president on tax reform and infrastructure and identifying together. and we just had a great meeting with the speaker and with nancy pelosi as a group. and those have been positive dialogues and positive messages delivered. what i think we need to do as republicans is not say no to reaching across the sile. we need to be open to it and do the hard work of legislating. >> what is your take on senator burr saying he does not see a comprehensive health care plan this year. he said the bill is dead on arrival and he doesn't see it getting done this year. >> well, i've given up trying to predict it. all i can tell you is the status quo is not sustainable.

we're having higher co-pays, higher deductibles and i don't see the senate being able to do nothing. they have a bill in front of they will. it is their job in my opinion to move on that bill and improve upon it or do their own zming let's continue the day that. >> if the senate doesn't do anything, what happens? >> i think hopefully go back to the drawing board. and this time around, it is done in a bynum way where we sit together and try to fix it. there are plenty who want to fix the aca. you can either take two proexs. you either obstruct for the sake of on it our side or you refuse to work together on their side. i think both answers are the wrong answers. you have to get together and be willing to solve problems like health care. i'm hopeful that that's what happens, that we can work together on health care. right now it seems like it is destined for failure. >> what a pleasure to talk to you. really interesting to find out about congressman reed's family. i look forward to seeing you

guys and seeing what you achieve. >> i'll his little brother. >> apparently it's quite possible. this is congressman josh gotheimer from new jersey and congressman reed. we are find go the holes and they are major. the numbers will speak very loudly for themselves. first, the withdrawal with a you fodder for some late night laughs. >> it isn't just environmentalists who want to us remain part of accord. exxonmobil, shell wanted us in it, walmart supported it. apparently the big companies ran the numbers. it turns out if climate change destroys human life on earth, it could be bad for business. out m. so when it comes to technology, i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well, that it feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, sets me up with tailored products and services.

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moments ago, president trump signed two bills into law. both are related to law enforcement. one is the american law enforcement heroe act. the other is the officer benefits improvement act. let's listen in. >> thank you. that's a big one, right? and this is, as you know, an act

in the united states house. this act may be used is the law enforcement heroes act. that's what it is. you're heroes. so i want to congratulate you. this one has been a long time in the making. you're all heroes, right? you're all heroes? yes? that's fantastic. who gets this? thank you very much, everybody. this is slightly less controversial than yesterday. but yesterday was a big service

to this country. i will tell you. thank you very much, everybody. >> you can see kristin welker was there. she shouted out some questions. he did not take any questions. he said these bills are slightly less controversial than yesterday. he's right, actually. they have bipartisan support. but let's go back to yesterday in the white house rose garden. the president backing out of the paris agreement. here's what played out a short time ago. >> should you be able to tell the american people whether or not the president still believes that climate change is a hoax? where does he stand? >> as i indicated, several times in the process. there's enough to deal with with respect to the paris agreement and making an informed decision about this important issue. that's what our focus has been over the last several weeks. i've answered the question.

>> what does the president actually believe? does he still believe it is a hoax? can you clarify that? since apparently no one else will. >> i have not had an opportunity to clarify that discussion. >> he ran saying that climate change was a hoax. at no point did the white house press secretary say that was the case. they were refusing to answer that simple question. okay. during yesterday's speech, the president called, citedob losses as his main reason to pull out of the agreement. >> compliance with the terms of the paris accord and the owners energy re -- the onerous restrictions could cost america as much as 2.7 million lost jobs by 2025. according to the national economic research are associates. >> this is what i like doing.

i like figuring out what this is. according to the national economic research associates. this is our segment for facts where we take on these issues. the claim is that the paris accord could cost 2.7 million jobs by 2025. this was commissioned by the chamber of commerce and american council for capital formation. this study which has been widely debunked is based on a few assumptions that other countries, the other 197 countries or however many there are, don't make the emission reductions in line with the agreement. so between 2020 when it goes into effect nrgs 2025, only america lives up to its agreements. nobody else does. it also assumes that industries are static and don't have any ability to change in line with regulations, which doesn't make sense. if you're an electrical ability, you build a pla for 40years. you can build it by whatever standards you want. it assumes there would be no

increase in clean electricity generation compared to baseline scenario. the other claim that was made in the interview, in the press conference is that the u.s. can negotiate a new agreement. or can renegotiate its terms with the paris agreement. i don't know about that but countries have said it cannot be renegotiated. there are fears that if the united states does it, others will do it. the other claim is that it is nonbinding and the paris accord imposed draconian financial and economic burdens. if it is nonbinding, how does it impose any burden whatsoever? so these are a few of the issues in the speech that were not entirely accurate. but all of that aside, we want to talk about whether or not the united states is doing what it should do and whether or not this really is bad for consumers and bad for companies to be a little bit greener.

he is the very republican mayor of georgetown, texas. mayor ross is also a very big supporter of president trump. you would also guess what he has to say except he is one of the biggest supporters of renewable energy. his city was one of the first in the country to aim to be 100% powered by renewable energy. how close are you? >> i am. in 2016, we were 100% because we had favorable weather. in 2017, we'll be about 90%. our solar plant in west texas won't come on line until the early part of 2018. from 2018 on, we expect to be 100% renewable each and every year. >> but you are a real republican and you are actually a real donald trump supporter. i wasn't wrong about that part. >> well, you know, in our last presidential election, out of

300lion people in the country, we had a couple to choose from. i chose mr. trump because i am a republican. >> can you tell me, how we get to a point where it is okay to be republican and support sort of activities to, you know, reduce our greenhouse gases? our emission? to you this was not really a problem, to be a republican and to support this? >> absolutely not. the way we look at it, we do it georgetown way in our decision making. we make a decision because we did long term strategic planning. we make decisions based on a 25 to 30-year time line. so when you're doing your planning that far out, what we wanted to do was mitigate price volatility, and we also wanted to mitigate governmental and regulatory risk in the actions of the last couple days, i think validates the wisdom in our approach. because president trump says we'll withdraw.

so that doesn't impact our deal at all. we're paying the same amount per kilo watt hour in year one as in year 25 and his decision doesn't imfact rate payers in georgetown at all. >> so weigh the factors for me between price of energy, availability of energy and impact on the earth? when you made this decision, where did those three factors, how did you piece them together? >> well, first and foremost it was a business decision. and you do have the ability to make sound decisions. that's what we have been able to do. ours was a no brainer. we'll provide the cts over 25 or 30 years. it is wind and solar energy. no pollutants going back in the atmosphere. everybody wins on this deal. >> you are in a state where oil is a big deal and there are a lot of people who take this

climate change, fossil fuel, carbon emission talk to be anti-an industry that has really made your state very prosperous. how do you square that? >> i think we're in a transition mode. you have solar plants in west texas because the factor in west texas is just off the charts. and then in the pan handle, you have the wind and it blows 24 hours a day. this is a new industry. if you look at the number of jobs being created in the renewable energy business, i mean, it is quite telling. and it gives a lot of hope to a lot of folks entering the job market that there will be jobs available in the renewable energy industry. >> one of the reactions we saw yesterday was that if the federal government doesn't wish to commit to the paris agreement, lots of states and cities will. do you think states and cities and counties can do as much as the u.s. was going to do under the paris agreement if we're not

part of that agreement? >> i do. because you look at mayors and city councils and city governments, they've been this charge of producing the electricity for their rate payers. we've always had to do and it we'll continue to do it good to see you. thank you for being with us. >> come to austin. we'll go eat some franklin barbecue. >> austin has that slogan. keep austin weird, right? you're just outside of austin. do you share that slogan? >> yeah. we're 30 miles north of austin. we say austin, their slogan is keep austin weird. we say austin, keep your weird. come on down and eat some barbecue. >> i look forward to that. the mayor of georgetown, texas. coming up next, child's play. vladimir putin continues to deny russia interfered he in the election, even joking with megyn kelly that her young daughter could have been behind the hacking.

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so vladimir putin appeared to be mocking reports of russian interference in the election. he vehemently denied the hacking

allegations saying even a kid could do it. >> they can be invented, you know? there are very much specialists that can fix it up. you know, a kid of yours can send it. your gl that is 3-year-old can perpetrate sufficient an attack. and they present it like this, they can pass it off like this. and then they can blame someone else. these are not proofs. >> to talk more about this, lance james, the chief scientist at flash point, a company that specializes in security and threat intelligence. in a minute i'll get to malcolm who is on the set with us. incase i say his name. you're a hacker and you're dressed the part. let's talk about those comments. there are a number of responses from vladimir putin to megyn

kelly. how do you know russia is behind this? there is no finger print, a 3-year-old could have hacked this and you wouldn't be able to find out. ironically just yesterday, vladimir putin sort of bragged about the fact it might be patriotic russians who are behind this. just not the government. is there some certainty as to who hacks anything? attribution is very, very hard. if you don't have the exact human behind the key board, you're doing a lot of inference and guessing and putting a lot of circumstantial pieces together to hopefully get a full story. just like normal investigations, a lot of it is get the confession or get them to admit and get the human aspect to it. so it is very difficult. given what the dhs has put out publicly about what they call the election hack, the complex nature of it is not child's

play. it included recon, exploitation, command and control, all of these pieces which areore of like military design. so you can tell it is a more sophisticated attack because of things individuals couldn't do. so donald trump kept referring to a 400 pound guy in his bedroom hacking. the implication, whether it is a 3-year-old girl or the 400 pound guy, the complexity suggests resources? >> yes. it is really complex. some of it has been before and intelligence communities have identified it as being seen in russia prior pieces. based on conjectures and their evidence. and also, after you get into the cyber, the way it was delivered was using strategic communications and planning. which in some senses call it reflexive control. do you something that makes a human move very quickly against

idea they thought they had. so it is like, look at hillary clinton's e-mails and then everybody got a different opinion and responded to it spoeflt play is, that originated in the military intelligence space. so it is hard time to imagine a 17-year-old doing it. a lot of room to be able to still say it is vague and we might not have enough evidence. but -- >> the implication is it is not just about your skill and coding. there's something else. the 17-year-old could be involved in this but is probably involved in as opposed to -- >> there's a lot of planning that went into this. let me bring in a terrorism analyst, the author of the book, the plot to hack america. by the way, it came out before the election. you heard the conversation.

when you think of vladimir putin, he must have been enjoying the conversation that went on at nato last week will the president criticized our nato allies and didn't make any reference to article five that we have a mutual defense treaty. let's listen to what putin said. >> translator: there's no longer, the matter is still there. what for? and there is only one kind of answer. no matter. this is instrument of the u.s. foreign policy so far, we are seeing the way the military infrastructure is expanding at nearing borders. so that's true. we know that it has expanded to the baltic states, the eastern european states. but in fact a lot of people have said, for some reason, donald trump's failure to reemphasize the attack on the european countries, and the only thing they're afraid of is an attack

from russia. it does play into vladimir putin's hands. >> absolutely. the only time article 5 was eve invoked was by nato without o prompting on 1212, 2001. the united states was attacked as far as nato was concerned and every one of those countries came to our defense and served in afghanistan for ten years, lost hundreds of trumoops. donald trump going to brussels and not aif i recalling that the united states would stand with nato difinitively gave moscow what they've always wanted. which is a fracture. >> we were carrying on with nato countries about not paying their fair share. but the only time that alert went up is when america was attacked. >> this payment thing, it is all targets set for 2024. on military spending. if we were to add in all the

additional spending they spent in afghanistan, including the blood and treasure that they lost, the people that they lost, they would be paid up to date. this isn't mar-a-lago country club. vladimir putin is getting everything he wants out of donald trump. that uncertainty as to whether we would defend latvia, lithuania, ukraine, allows moscow to make threats like they did this morning against sweden saying they would take military action if they joined nato. >> anothernteresting thing, donald trump called kim jong-un a smart cookie. >> translator: as long as the law of the strong is in place, we'll see problems like the one in dprk. small countries see no other option to ensure their security than holding nuclear weapons. this is what abuse of power

leads to. so he has painted north korea's weaponry as a symptom or, from u.s. belligerence. >> he is saying that everything that has happened since 1954, at the end of the second korean war, is a natural cause of what would happen with the united states coming up against a very small power. and that they would want to secure themselves. that to a certain extent is true. the question that it brings to mind is, what would russia do about this if north korea does a surface detonation of a five, ten, 20 kiloton weapon. if they really have it. or if they get icbm capacitiful are we going to see russia and china come along with the united states? >> vladimir putin has a lot less trouble criticizing america than donald trump has of criticizing russia. >> absolutely true. vladimir putin has a lot to say about the united states.

he doesn't believe in liberal democracy or in the west. what he believes in now is autocracies. and he believes he has established that. he missed out with le pen in france but we see him flexing his muscles. almost troelg the world where he criticizes and mocks us and expects the united states to do what it wants and to a certain extent he is getting what he wants. >> good to see you both. a quick programming note. don't miss megyn kelly's exclusive interview with vladimir put on sunday evening. the premier of her new show. sunday night with megyn kelly on nns. that's a separate sitdown interview. not the panel that you saw today. coming up, supreme showdown. the trump administration asks the supreme court to reinstate his ban on six countries. ♪ whoa that's amazing...

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saying, we want you to take this case. we want to you decide whether the lower courts are correct. that it is unconstitutional and illegal. we don't think it is. but while you decide whether to hear the case, and the case the case, the case probably wouldn't be argued until late this summer, early fall, please let us enforce it in the meantime, lift the stays imposed by the lower courts because we nt to be able to do what the executive order says. pause issuing visa from six muslim countries while we assess whether the background information that we get on visa applicants in those countries is are reliable. >> pete, you are not a i go who gives odds or speculates. i'm going to ask you what the likelihood of the court agreeing to this is. >> well, i think it's quite likely that the court will agree to hear the case, to decide whether the lower courts are right about its constitutionality based on largely campaign statements by candidate trump. the harder part is whether the court is going to agree to issue this stay and let the court enforce it.

the government's in kind of a funny position here, they have to argue in order to meet the legal standard that they will be irreparably harmed if they don't get the stay, even though they've never been able to enforce the executive order yet. so they say to the supreme court, we haven't been able to enforce it since the president's first order was struck down, he issued that in january, it's now six months later. we still -- we want to be able to enforce it for the next few months while you decide whether to hear it, i think that is a tougher hill for them. >> pete, i love the way you handle that. i keep asking you to give me odds and you give me a great answer, anyway. pete williams, justice correspondent. thanks for being with us, pete. coming up next, the good news, employment grew in may with a boost of 140,000 jobs sending the unemployment rate to its lowest in 15 years. the bad news for some, this clears the way for the fed to raise interest rates next month. what it means to you right after this break. beyond is a natural pet food

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i have a lifetime of experience. so i know how important that is. hey, it's the first friday of the month, that means the job numbers are in for the month of may. the economy added 138,000 jobs last month, that is a weaker number than expected. but the unemployment rate did fall to 4.3%. that's the lowest level since 2001. i often tell you, don't get too invested in that unemployment

number. there are a lot of reasons why it changes. icht to talk, though, a little more broadly about economics, markets and finance with my friend, diane, the founder and ceo of ds economics. diane, great to see you. you know, i was businessy biz busy after the climate speech yesterday getting into things donald trump said about the economy and climate and all that. this stood out to me, he talked once again about gdp owth, about economic growth. listen with me. >> at 1% growth, renewable sources of eney can meet some of our do midwemestic demand. at 3% or 4% growth which i expect, we need all forms of available american energy. >> the part i take issue there with, as you know, is the 4% growth which i expect. roughly speaking, the united states is growing at about 2% a year. it's kind of the space we're in. things move around a little bit from quarter to quarter.

i think it feels a little disingenuous to tell people in a speech you expect 4% economic growth. >> it's a little more than disingenuous, it defies math and gravity. we're kind of touching on isaac newton and defying the laws of gravity here. this is an economy where labor force growth is very slow, that's why the threshold is so low for the fed, you don't need to generate that many jobs for the fed to say it's okay to raise rates in this environment. that's important to remember on one side. on the other side of the equati equation, we don't have much productivity group. that means our economic potential, you got to change one of these two things to be able to make those numbers work. and you got to change them a major way. one of the ways they've talked about is bringing what we call the u6, stress measure of unemployment, down to the overall unemployment rate. that didn't even happen in the go-go 1990s where we generate a little under 23 million jobs in a decade. so if it didn't happen then, i done see why it would map now, in fact, we're seeing participation go down instead of

up. that's going in the wrong direction. >> that's labor -- the number of people who can work who actually are working. despite the annouemen yesterday, markets went up, they're abt to close. they're up again today. we had bob schiller on last week who thinks under certain circumstances, you know, markets go up 50% from where they are todayed. i mean, he has a lot of qualifiers for that. people looking at this market and trying to make sense o the disconnectedness of some of the things that the president says, but the success of this market, what are you telling them? >> it doesn't make a lot of sense to me. what i do look at the market and i see that the initial rally we saw after the election, it was based on a premise and a hope we would have tax reform, big infrastructure spending and deregulati deregulation all at once, all in one year and add to growth immediately. first of all, assumptions of how much it would add to growth were overly optimistic. second of all, the idea you could get the legislation through something like congress which is an immovable force is something also i think that's important. what we did have was momentum. the underlying economy

continuing at 2% in its birthday, happy birthday, we're in our eighth year of expansion now in june, it's the third longest expansion of the post-world war ii period, half the pace of growth we see during an expansion on average, but the longer it goes on, the more you do sort of try to withittle awa at the stress factors out there. that said, we have a hard time growing more than 2%. this is really important to understand. and that -- so the initial optimism, we've seen a shift in the market, now it's more toward technology, moved away from the initial what they called sector bets related to the trump rally. that said, it now looks more like, i'm borrowing from my friend, it looks more like liquidity play. we see a lot of money chasing returns. not for a lot of good reasons. >> somewhere they can go where there will be some return. diane swonk, founder of dwrs economics. that wraps it up for me ts hour. tune into "velshi and ruhle" tomorrow at 12:30 eastern.

catch the premiere of our weekday show, that is monday at 11:00 p.m., 11:00 a.m. eastern daefr d every day. thank withdrew fyou for watchin. right now "deadline white house can nicolle wallace." hi, everyone, it's 4:00. asked and answered. nbc's megyn kelly today pressed russian president vladimir putin on a number of hot-button questions regarding the relationship between he and president trump. questions about hacking and asked president putin if his new american counterpart moved ease sanctions on russia after his surprise victim ary in november. >> there are reports today in the american press that the trump administration took active steps to ease sanctions on russia. almost immediately after trump took office. was this possibility ever discussed between the trump team and your representatives prior