weekday show, that is monday at 11:00 p.m., 11:00 a.m. eastern daefr d every day. thank withdrew fyou for watchin. right now "deadline white house can nicolle wallace." hi, everyone, it's 4:00. asked and answered. nbc's megyn kelly today pressed russian president vladimir putin on a number of hot-button questions regarding the relationship between he and president trump. questions about hacking and asked president putin if his new american counterpart moved ease sanctions on russia after his surprise victim ary in november. >> there are reports today in the american press that the trump administration took active steps to ease sanctions on russia. almost immediately after trump took office. was this possibility ever discussed between the trump team and your representatives prior to president trump being

inaugura inaugurated? >> translator: that's just absurd what they are saying. i don't know where these people have come from that distribute this kind of information. that's a catastrophe. our ambassador has met someone. what is the ambassador supposed to do? that's what he gets money for. he has to hold meetings, have discussions about the kind of state of affairs, to seek agreement. what expect him to do? >> we should mention, megyn just wrapped up an exclusive one-on-one interview with president putin and hope to have some of that coming up in the hour. joining us right now, though, from st. petersburg, russia, nbc's keir simmons and kelly o'donnell at the white house. keir, you've had a busy day, going to hope to bring you back later in the show to talk about your manhunt earlier today. i want to start by asking you if vladimir putin seemed to have any idea how sort of deeply mired in hot water donald

trump's white house is because of alleged contacts with his team of people and his associates? >> reporter: oh, he knows fully well. i mean, look, this was, nicolle, full putin. this was putin at his most aggressive and most evasive and i suppose you could say at his most playful. i mean, there were moments when he was, you know, seemingly kind of joking, suggesting that a child could have hacked the dnc in the way that russia -- the russian state is accused, and other times seeming absolutely vitriolic, you know, a comparison that people will find difficult to take. he suggested that, youns, t knoe way russia is being treated could be compared with anti-semitism. he once said all of the things that we knew he would say, and, in fact, appeared to back track a little from what he said in the last few days in which he suggested that maybe a patriotic russian, an individual, would be

responsible for the hack on the u.s. elections or the alleged hack. he didn't say that again, and was much more combative than that and people had suggested maybe that was him beginning to move his position a little bit, but every answer, megyn kelly really pushed him again and again, was just exactly what you expect from president putin. >> how is president putin received among his domestic political audience, which for most leaders is their key concern, but how is he received at home when he stands up and almost belittles these accusations that he may -- i mean, is he celebrated for a potential role in influencing the u.s. presidential election in 2016 back at home? >> reporter: it's a good question, and the answer is that he is. yeah. but among a vast majority of russians, and remember that this is a country that has seen real economic troubles, not just from sanctions, but also from the

downturn in the oil price, so he needs support. one way of getting it is to attack america. there's no question of that. to be the strongman. and even as you mentioned, kind of seemed belittling and head did appear at times to attempt to belittle megyn and, you know, she stood up to that very, very well. he was using everything in his arsenal to knock her off balance and the same time to play to his strengths, if you like, to be this kind of guy that stands up to the american reporter, the russian public will have liked to have seen that or at least many of them would, honestly. >> it's fascinating. kelly o., i want to bring you into the conversation. does the white house watch vladimir putin and feel any sort of alarm when he seems strikingly on message with president trump? president trump said the hacker could have been a fat person in their basement and this insult to fat people everywhere, but

vladimir putin said it could is been a patriotic russian kid. i mean, is there any alarm when they watch vladimir putin answer questions with some striking similarities to the way the trump team answers some of these same questions? >> reporter: well, everything that is in the russia basket seems to be like kryptonite. nobody wants to get near it or talk about it or respond to it and that has been a real challenge for those of us trying to tease out different aspects of what the russian investigation is about, what the relationship between this president and the russian president is, or will be, what the appropriate interactions that are necessary between two enormous governments. all of that seems to get hidden behind that rock of no one wanting to touch it. and so it's hard to not see the similarities, as you point out, even from the sort of kidding tone. what is an ambassador to do? that's a quotable quote out of vladimir putin, of course, kislyak would have duties along that line, brushing it off.

we don't yet know the content of those conversation. we don't know what lines were crossed, if any. clearly vladimir putin is someone with deep experience in the spy game and really decades of public service in russia and the former soviet union. he knows how the game is played. this white house is newer to a lot of these issues with so few people with previous government experience in some of the biggest jobs. and the idea of what are the relationships, they just don't want to talk about it. now the reflexive answer on any question related to russia is to refer to the president's outside counsel. that will be kind of the go to the cue card or that notecard on the desk or just evade, so they don't want to talk about it, they want to steer things back. one notable thing today, we did hear through the president's spokesperson, hope hicks, that the president has high confidence and trust in jared kushner, his son-in-law, who has a broad portfolio in the white house. >> the world. >> reporter: and has been --

>> he's in charge of the world. >> reporter: he's in charge of the world and improving government. and that they remain confident in his service as a government official. he's not taking a salary, but he is an official or the government. but notable as well. >> right. kelly, let me ask you -- before i lose you -- >> reporter: one more note. >> go ahead. >> reporter: kushner was not at the bill signing today and he's been at most bill signings and at many public events where the president is seen in front of cameras. they're saying he's working, doing all of his things but i think it's notable if ivanka was present, jared kushner is not, perhaps he's trying to stay out of the spotlight a bit. >> neither of them were at the rose garden announcement yesterday for the paris -- pulling out of the paris accord. we know ivanka was very publicly on the other side of that decision. i want to ask you, kelly o., about some reporting -- actually like to get both of you to weigh in on some reporting coming to us from yahoo!'s chief investigative reporter michael isikoff saying top trump administration officials almost as soon as they took office tasked state department staffers

with developing proposals for the lifting of economic sanctions, return of diplomatic compounds and other steps to relieve tensions with moscow, very much in line with what we've heard from the president, himself, when he talked about wanting jim comey out of the fbi, to relieve pressure on this russia relationship. kelly o., what'd the white house have to say about that question today? >> reporter: well, in addition to referring it to the department of state, they are saying some of the reporting may be pushing the notion of these sort of negotiations between the u.s. and russia over returning that real property to them. might be a little further along than is true. said they're not talking about that, but they -- we have heard from u.s. officials kind of not only in the white house, but across the administration, this desire to turn down the volume on russia issues but at the same time, appear to be giving to russia things russia wants. which raises some questions about the timeliness of this, the intent of it, and is the white house doing it knowing that they will take some political heat, or doing it not realizing the full scale of the

political heat that's coming their way? nicolle? >> keir, anything from president putin on the same question about the easing of sanctions? i know that's what megyn was pressing him on, the sound we started the show with. >> reporter: yeah, that's right. megyn asked him directly about that and he flatly denied that there was any kind of a deal, i guess at least he knows about, between the kremlin and the trump administration, the trump transition team, to talk about removing sanctions. i tell you something, one interesting note before this whole debate, he, president putin, stood in front of u.s. business leaders and they interestingly very differently from the combative exchanges you saw on the stage, he appealed to them to help change the perception in the u.s. and he said to support president trump. what it tells you is thirks ts, kremlin would like to get back to better relations with the

united states. they understand the importance of the u.s. economy. they can see that lifting those sanctions would be really useful for their economy, or they always played down how damaging they might be. they would alreadidy the wy di-y also, they know the relationship with china which is supposed to be the ally is weakeneded eif don't have a strong relationship with the west. president putin wants to get out of this. i suspect, though, the trouble is he doesn't quite know how to. at the same time, he wants to walk out of it with respect and saying to his public as we were talking about earl yeah look, you see, we're on an equal footing to every other country in the world including the united states. the question is, is he going to be able to achieve that? >> all right, keir, we're going to see you later in the hour. kelly o., thank you very much. i want to bring in our panel, joining us today, jeremy bash, msnbc national security analyst and former chief of staff at the cia and at the department of defense. elise jordan, msnbc political an lirks "time" kmumis is columnist. the ref rapverend al-.

president of the national action network. joining us from washington, d.c., susan glasser, international affairs columnist for politico. thank you, all. susan, i want to start with you. your thoughts about the vladimir putin you saw today. you covered him for a long time before he was daily dinner conversation at arngd the dinner tables in this country. did you see anything new out of him? he sort of, like, keir was referencing a desire to sort of put more effort into his pr among his business community. did you see anything that looked like greater effort, or greater concern about how he's perceived in this country? >> well, it wasn't exactly a charm offensive, was it? i mean, you know, putin has this unique combination of sort of victimization combined with aggressiveness, right? sort of on the one hand, everybody's beating up on russia. on the other hand, you know, let's make fun of the west when they're having troubles. and he seemed at points in that conversation with megyn kelly almost to be, you know, very, very pleased and tickled even by

the internal squabbles in nato and asked him flat-out about that. he said, yes, of course, it's going to resound to russia's benefit, but i want to make the point on the russia sanctions thing, the thing that alarmed the diplomats inside the administration, and they were worried in the early days, i think, of president trump, was the fear actually not that there was a deal with russia yet, but that trump might even be prepared to make unilateral concessions. i reported this back in january that they were considering lifting the sanctions and people weren't able to confirm it more at the time. so i think these new details really suggest that trump came into office looking to have a major reset, even a grand bargain, with russia. he hasn't for really internal political reasons yet been able to kind of make that pivot. i'm struck that trump has never really backed away from that as a goal, even if he can't pursue it because of this investigation. >> jeremy, susan says exactly what i feel like you've been getting at for months now which is that this was always the

plan. some grand bargain with vladimir putin was always the plan. why are we talking around it? >> yeah, we're just seeing the payoff now, nicolle. putin is popular at home because he's getting his way. he put lavrov and kislyak into the oval office. >> they've been banned from the oval office of president obama, right? >> previous presidents. >> since 2015. >> that's right. look at what happened in brussels this past week. this is moscow's dream to see an american ally stand in front of -- and not invoke article 5. >> why isn't there any question anymore, why isn't there a debate in the country whether or not putin was involved in the outcome of -- >> we have is to break this down a little bit. as kelly noted, the white house publicly does not want to touch the issue of russia. keir portrayed it as putin stating i'd like better relationships with rush slsia bf you peel the pr layers back, russia and the trump team have very good relations. it's paying off for vladimir putin. >> i want to bang my head

against the all every time e turn on the tv, see a republican in front of a camera saying let's wait and see what happens. what are republicans waiting for to share the sense of alarm that john mccain and a handful of others feel about vladimir putin's successful efforts to be a player in our politics? >> i think president trump is still enjoying a very long grace period where republicans are -- >> with his base. >> with his base but also on the hill, no one is ready to challenge him yet. >> why not? >> just because they're still fearful of him. >> of him doing what? >> they think this is an opportunity to use trump in the white house to push their policy agenda, since he is the ideol y ideology-free president. this is swrast maijust amaze to though, the relationship between putin and trump and they camede, trump white house so gung-ho to immediately do a reset with russia and it's, at the same time, we were so focused on the travel ban, there was so much swirling around the first month of the trump presidency, still is, they were really proposing dramatically reshaping american

foreign policy and the question is, for what? trump always criticize z deals that he sees as, you know, someone getting the short end of the stick, bowe bergdahl, cuba concessions with prbl. what are we getting back if we're giing it back to the russians? >> rev, donald trump was a brutally sort of sharp critic of hillary clinton's reset with russia. he was doing a whole lot more than resetting things with russia. >> no, he was not only doing a lot more, i mean, when you connect the dots, we have to remember, during this time that they're talking about whether or not they're going to deal with sanctions. you have the "washington post" revealing now how jared kushner was meeting with the head of the russian state bank. >> spoiler alert, we're going to get to that. we're going to have a whole block to talk about that. >> i'm sorry to be a spoiler. >> keep going. keep going. >> when you see the kinds of people they were meeting with -- >> right. >> -- for them not to have discussed sanctions, given the

kind of economic stranglehold on average russians. i saw a report earlier megyn kelly did about the average person in russia was complains about the consumer goods, the cost of things there. how could they not be talking about sanctions? it doesn't make sense. >> with the sanctions, there's a line you can draw between what you can and cannot do with a russian bank. i think with all of these kinds of entanglements, it is clear they were there to make a possible reset across the board, otherwise there's too many meanings with too many types of people that are critical to these kinds of things. >> so many meetings -- >> they had to be talking. >> so many russians so many people forgot about. we're just hitting pause. coming up, muzzling jim comey. could the white house block jim comey's testimony before congress next week by invoking executive privilege? also mueller moves in. new reporting that special counsel bob mueller may take over the criminal investigation

into mike flynn. nbc news tracks down the russian banker the rev was just talking about who reportedly met with jared kushner. what's his side of the story? new bikes aren't selling guys... what are we gonna do? how about we pump more into promotions? ♪ nah. what else? what if we hire more sales reps? ♪ nah. what else? what if we digitize the whole supply chain? so people can customize their bike before they buy it. that worked better than expected. i'll dial it back. yeah, dial it back. just a little. live business, powered by sap. when you run live, you run simple.

for finding relief can seem sualmost as painful.ck pain finally the search is over. drug-free aleve direct therapy®. a tens device with high intensity power that uses technology once only available in doctors' offices. its smart wireless design lets you control its intensity for deep penetrating relief at the source.

the power of relief is in your hands. aleve direct therapy. find yours in the pain relief aisle. for years, centurylink has been promising fast internet to small businesses. but for many businesses, it's out of reach. why promise something you can't deliver? comcast business is different. ♪ ♪ we deliver super-fast internet with speeds of 250 megabits per second across our entire network,

to more companies, in more locations, than centurylink. we do business where you do business. ♪ ♪ is the white house going to invoke exec utive privilege to prevent james comey from testifying before the senate intelligence panel next week? >> that committee hearing was just noticed and obviously it

has to be reviewed. >> that's not a no. >> i'm just saying, that literally, i understanding is the date for that hearing is just set. i haven't spoken with counsel yet. i don't know how they're going to respond. >> that was white house press secretary smaun spicer with some pretty squirrely answers on executive privilege. jeremy bash, would it be unprecedented for the white house to invoke executive privilege to block jim comey from testifying before congress next week? >> let's break this down. by the way, we need a countdown clock for the -- >> i'm sure we'll have one. >> so when -- >> it will be up before the end of the hour. >> two big questions, first, what was the fbi investigating? he won't talk about that. i think he's worked that out with mueller. second question. what did the president say to you about the flynn investigation? did he put the arm on you to shut it down? that's where the white house could try to invoke executive privilege. >> how, though? the president has said, i asked him to lay off of comey to the russians. >> so number one, he might have waived -- >> lay off of flynn. >> number one, he might have waived the privilege.

second, comey doesn't work for the president anymore. if sean spicer says it's under review, they'd have to run into federal court, get an injunction, temporary restraining order to basically get a judge to issue an order and say, jim comey, you may not speak. muzzling comey could backfire. first of all, it probably wouldn't work and politically it would be horrendous for the white house. >> ken dilanian, i think ken is with us. >> i'm here. >> nbc's national security reporter. i just turn to you, call you in the middle of the day. >> appears. >> you appear. magic of tv. >> happy to do it. >> ken, if they muzzle him and forbid him from testifying, could he do an interview and talk about what the president said to him about mike flynn? >> you know, that's a really interesting question. i spoke yesterday with ben wittes, a friend of jim comey, writing and speaking about jim comey's state of mind and he suggested that comey, you know, may not -- may go against any assertion of executive privilege and just speak, anyway. and i think jeremy made a really important point, you know,

typically executive privilege is asserted, applies to people who currently work for the president and the president merely orders them not to testify. there's really no precedent for invoking it against people who no longer work for the president. in the hollywood version, trump would send the federal marshals into the hearing to order mr. comey not to speak. no legal expert i spoke to said anything like that is going to happen. jeremy made an important point, the president may have waived that privilege. he tweeted about these conversations, also spoke of them to our own lester holt. once you start talking about something, it's hard to exert a privilege saying that can't be discussed, nicolle. >> the president eroding his own legal optionalty by tweeting and talking so much? >> that's why when you saw the covfefe tweet, i think what was going on, he was tweeting and his lawyers grabbed the phone -- >> i think the ambien kicks in. it happens to me. >> my question, what would be the political implications if the president to try to

overdramatize this, he loves the drama, try to shut comey down? >> i think that the biggest risk of this comey testimony not happening would be pressure on the committee not to have comey, to cancel the hearing. i really think if the white house chooses to go down this path, and pick this nigfight it going to erupt in d.c. this has never been done. it's one thing if someone working for a president doesn't wan want to testify, they're fighting giving their testimony. he's a private citizen now. he can testify if he wants to. he can also i think probably give interviews. >> i think politically, it would be disastrous for the president because i think even some of the republicans that, nicolle, you have been saying, where are they? they would have to say something. here is a president that has come out in very callous terms sometimes saying how he has nothing to hide, he repudiates and denounces and belittle people that infer things. so why are you hiding now? you're the tough guy from queens. >> off brand, right?

>> so now why are you going to hide behind executive privilege. >> tough guy from queens. i'm a issaying as a tough guy fm brooklyn, i'm not using executive privilege, say what you have to say because you have nothing to say. now we'll see how tough donald trump really is as president. >> that's the politics, i want to bring susan glasser back in on the revelations. the value of comey is also the revelation, right? we will learn when he testifies just how passionately this president sought to squash an investigation into mike flynn and maybe even why. i mean, comey took copious notes. he wrote memos the way people sort of come out of interrogations and write about what a witness says. i mean, there could be real substance in the comey testimony as well. >> well, you got to wonder whether president trump is starting to regret if he didn't want comey to testify and wanted to assert executive privilege, he shouldn't have fired him,

right? and so there's that to consider. but look, substantively, this could be, you know, a very significant moment where we see what the former fbi director's account really almost recorded in realtime is of multiple, not just one, but multiple conversations with president trump in which he appeared from what the reporting has been to raise explicitly the russia issue in connection with -- asking for the loyalty of his fbi director in which he appeared to ask for lenience of the fbi in the investigation of the national security adviser, mike flynn, at the time, and so, you know, this is substantively a key moment in which we're going to learn for the first time real significant new information. we have not more or less heard comey's account directly yet. we've heard bits and pieces of it refracted through excellent reporting in "the new york times" and the "washington post" but have not yet heard it. so i think you're going to see trump obviously doing everything he can to dis tract our attentin

from this next week and, you know, on the executive privilege case, your panelists made a pretty convincing argument trump would be hard pressed to follow through with that and if he really wanted executive privilege, again, he would not have fired comey. remember, many presidents including president george w. bush wanted to fire the fbi director and avoided doing so in part for some of these reasons. >> i'm going to put yut on the spot for a really quick answer on the significance of bob mueller taking over the flynn investigation. looks like the criminal aspect of the flynn investigation. >> yeah, all the related criminal activities, whether it's flynn's nonregistration with the justice department, those are -- >> his work on behalf of the foreign government. >> work on behalf of the turkish government and maybe other things where he got payment for those things. those are now all under mueller. he may be able to use those to turn flynn to testify against others. >> others including? >> others including other people -- >> jared, the president? >> potentially. back on the executive privilege,

pro tip, if you want to assert executive privilege, don't fire the guy. >> there you go, you heard it from jeremy bash. all right. no one is going anywhere. up next, the mysterious russia banker who met with jared kushner at trump tower late last year. keir simmons literally chased him down in russia today to get answers and he joins me on the other side of this break. it's being in motion. in body, in spirit, in the now. boost® high protein it's intelligent nutrition with 15 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for when you need a little extra. boost® the number one high protein complete nutritional drink. be up for it

nobody does underwater stunts, sylvia.

except me, of course. this is my stop. adios! ♪ if you're a stuntman, you cheat death. it's what you do. if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. número uno!

keir simmons from nbc news. you're the subject of intense scrutiny in america because of your meeting with donald trump's son-in-law, jared kushner. >> any comments -- any conversation -- >> i know you do, there is some confusion about what happened. were you talking about business or were you talking about politics? >> no comments, please. >> have you been contacted by the fbi or would you be prepared to talk to them? mr. gorkov? i'm sorry. mr. gorkov, mr. gorkov.

it's just a question of understanding what happened in the meeting. >> no comments, please. >> can i just ask you, was it a political meeting? was it an economic meeting? could we get -- could we interview you at a later date? would that be possible? >> please. no comments. >> why don't you -- if it's an innocent meeting, why don't you want to talk about it? >> sorry. >> mr. gorkov, mr. gorkov, if it was an innocent meeting with jared kushner, why don't you want to talk about it, sir? i'm sorry. please don't push me out of the way. i just want to ask you about the meeting that you had with jared kushner. please explain. we really do want to hear what happened, if it was an innocent meeting, please just explained what happened in the meeting, mr. gorkov. >> that was a master classman in journalism, keir simmons. why does this matter so much? >> very strange for kushner to meet with a banker during the

transition. could have been "a" to talk about funding kushner real estate projects. that's not a great story. >> that's the white house story. i mean, the russian story. sorry. got them mixed up. >> could have been about lifting sanctions on the bank. that's not a great story either. putin said today we didn't talk about lifting sanctions. or "c" it could have been about establishing this back channel to putin because this banker gorkov is part of putin's circle. he's not super close to the kremlin right now but he's been one around the oligarchs around putin and has a background in intelligence. he graduated from their spy akdny. >> "d," the white house's answer, part of jared's duties as transition official, just in fairness to them. keir, first of all, you're much more polite than any american journalist would is been. congratulations on that. second, what were you hoping to get from him? >> reporter: yeah, i don't know if it was a master class in journalism, but thanks for that. i didn't get any answers in the end, did i? so, but what i was simply hoping to do, as you heard, find out

what happened in the meeting which seemed like a straightforward question that you hope to get an answer to. look, the bank that he heads has been described, you know, as the kremlin's laser-guided missile, it's been described as president putin's slush fund. the truth is probably somewhere in the middle of that. what we don't know is just why it was that jared kushner met with him in december. there are explanations that we could jump to, if you like. you know, possibly they were talking about lifting sanctions. i mean, the bank is subject to those very sanctions. maybe they were talking about jared kushner's business. the question is to be answered by either the head of the bank there, who you saw me talking to, or by the white house, and right now neither side seem very keen on giving us any answers. >> keir, was this a -- two questions for you, was this a bank that was sanctioned in president obama's final act of sanctions that were, i think they came down december 29th

when he closed the compounds, dispelled the diplomats and issued his final round of sanction. are there any ties from jared kushner's pre-political life to his companies and this bank? >> reporter: well, look, the second question is a really good question and i can't answer that question. i don't know the answer. to the answer to the first question, 2014 is when they brought the sanctions. look, this is a bank that has financed multiple projects on behalf of the russian government. the sochi winter olympics, it was very much backing finances in. that's fine, you might say. on the other hand, it invested heavily in ukraine at about the point when the kremlin was trying to persuade ukrainians not to swing toward europe and toward the west so that's the kind of bank that it is. it is state controlled and it is there really, analysts think, to do the bidding of the russian government and to, you know, wield power on behalf of the russian government. so, that's the role it plays.

another point about this bank, adds to the murkiness, i guess, there was, for example, a banker with the bank of new york who was deported back to russia accused of spying by the u.s. so, there's that, too. >> so many bread crumbs. keir simmons, thank you so much for all of your efforts today. susan, i want to bring you in. i think to americans the idea of a bank acting, you know, as almost a government actor the way it is in russia, is foreign. can you explain the relationship between vladimir putin and russia's bankers like the one that keir was hunting down today? >> well, i'm so glad you made this point, nicolle, because it's not like citibank here. the reason why people are so eager to follow up this story and your reporter in russia did a great job of trying to get more answers, the reason that people care about this is because this is an arm of the kremlin. it's an arm of the russian state which is why it's been placed under sanctions. so their official explanation which is that jared kushner was talking about business with

them, that actually raises a whole host of legal issues to the idea that the president's son-in-law would be engaging in discussions about his personal business with a sanctioned russian state entity is extremely problematic for jared kushner which i believe is probably why you saw the white house immediately saying no, this meeting was part of his official duties even though, you know, as was already pointed out, that doesn't look good for him, either. and so basically, you have a situation where either scenario, the one that the russians have advanced that it's about business, or the ones that the white house has advanced which is that it's about official diplomacy, both of them are very problematic but i think it's important to say, also, that this is not some transparent bank subject to western-style accounting standards and the like. the sochi olympics in 2014 before the invasion of ukraine, the big story there was the enormous, literally billions of

dollars, that were spent in a very untransparent and many believe to be very corrupt way, lavished on the sochi olympics. so, you know, again, it's not like americ-- americans have to understand, we're not talking about an american-style bank here. >> susan, thank you. ken dilanian, let me throw a rumsfeld term at you, take me through the known unknowns about jared kushner's ties to this russian banker. we know that he met with him. what do we know that we don't know? >> well, we know -- here's what we do know. we know that the fbi, nbc news' investigative unit learned the fbi is very interested in this meeting and to expand on susan's point, what does it mean that this bank is under sanctions? it means that u.s. persons and american corporations are forfrfobidden from doing business with him. for the bank to say this was a meeting about business raises a host of questions about how jared kushner could be meet with a sanctioned bank about business. >> he could have either been doing illegal business or illegal diplomacy or

inappropriate back channel -- i mean, just what's closing in for me is that the best explanations are nonsensical. he was meeting with a banker who united states law forbade the government to do business with or, wait, wait, wait, or he was hanging out in his capacity as a real estate tycoon, again, with a banker that america is forbidden -- none of the explanations line up. how does this end well for jared kushner? >> it doesn't seem like it can. the other issue, this man, gorkov, is described to us as a putin crony. as jeremy pointed out, he's not known among u.s. experts as a back channel to putin. he's certainly got ties to the putin government and, you know, we know from the "washington post" reporting, or it's been asserted that jared kushner was seeking a back channel to the point he was willing to use russian communications equipment to do it. so, you know, it's no wonder why

the fbi would be interested in this for both a counterintelligence reason and potentially a financial transactions reason. >> all right. susan glasser, ken dilanian, thank you for making my head explode today. up next, more fallout over the president's decision to pull out of the paris climate accord. for mom" per roll more "doing chores for dad" per roll

more "earning something you love" per roll bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer... ...than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty, the quicker picker upper and now try bounty with new despicable me 3 prints. in theaters june 30. when this guy got a flat tire in the middle of the night, so he got home safe. yeah, my dad says our insurance doesn't have that. what?! you can leave worry behind when liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance.

mmmm. mmmm. mmmm... ugh. nothing spoils a moment like heartburn. try new alka-seltzer ultra strength heartburn relief chews. it's fast, powerful relief with no chalky taste. [ sings high note ] ultra strength, new from alka-seltzer. enjoy the relief. we're back. elise jordan, you and i both had jobs as communicators. how would you communicate your way out of this russian bank story for jared kushner? >> well, telling the truth is always the optimal solution, but this white house is known to have a problem with that. you look at their communications response on the story, though, they had days before shauean spr gave his first press conference since the foreign trip. refused to offer a plausible explanation. day really are staying completely away from it. the president on some level has

not been as robust in his defense, as he was, saying in nordstrom's cut of ivanka's line. it makes me wonder what kind of footing jared kushner is on within the family -- >> you think he's in trouble? >> i think he clearly has a problem. you made the point i really am looking at -- >> that's not good for either of us when you say -- >> this is bipartisan agreement, jared kushner, because what we're really saying here is either way it really doesn't matter. if he was meeting about business, it's not like this guy that he's meeting with doesn't know he's on the transition team. he's the son-in-law of the incoming president. whether they explicitly talked about sanctions or not, clearly this is what this guy would want to deal with. so it makes it better to say, i want to talk to you about a private business deal, i have a $1.8 billion building on 5th avenue, i'm dealing with the chinese bank. and this guy's not thinking my leverage to talk to you is

sanctions. if they were talking about sanctions, then he's violating everything. there's no way around there is a big problem here for jared kushner. >> just because we should note it was before the inauguration, so no executive privilege was attached. there's the phrase, again, drink, everybody's friday. >> change what we have in the mugs. we're talking about jared kushner. kelly o. did point out in the beginning of the show in her live shot that the white house spokesman did affirm the president's -- but the man whose byline is on the definitive story today about palace intrigue is phillip from the "washington post." i think he's joining us right now. >> hi. >> there you are. hi. i read your story three times because my first thought when i watched the paris speech was bannon's back and he was, you know, i understood not thrilled about being sort of kicked off that foreign trip after the first stop. but he certainly made the most of his time. he lined up support for bringing the president along to his side of the debate on climate change. some have suggested that that's where the president always was. but i wonder if you could give

us the current state of play inside this white house's ongoing and very public power struggle. >> yeah, well, the paris is an interesting development. i think trump was always in favor of the withdraw, and it was just a long deliberative process to get to the final decision yesterday, but withdraw forces, that would be bannon and scott pruitt, the epa administrator, and others including kellyanne conway, for that matter, presented the president with a lot of numbers, facts, figures, studies, graphics, anything to show him that there would be a negative economic impact and the other side was really ivanka trump mostly and rex tillerson, the secretary of state. they brought in a lot of input from outsiders from ceos of u.s. companies, but also from european leaders, foreign leaders, even pope francis made a direct appeal to the president to try to stay in the paris accord. but in the end, the president stuck with his gut which was to get out of this agreement. he doesn't like these international agreements. he thinks the u.s. gets screwed over, which is what he said in

the rose garden yesterday. and bannon and pruitt prevailed. >> i wonder if you have picked up any talk about how this is off brand for the president as deal maker? he didn't try to get a better deal, he didn't try to get a deal to put america first. what i thought might have been trump's way would have is been to say, i'm going to make the paris climate accord great again. i'm going to lower the targets so that america's on an even playing field for china. he would have been celebrated by his peers, or people he thinks are his peers, sort of the titans of business. he would have been -- it would have been hard for democrats to attack him and he could have sort of spoken directly to his base to say, i'm going to make this a good deal for you, a good deal for the people who sent me here. was that ever on the table? >> i think it was. that's a great point you made, and our reporting shows that there was actually pretty universal agreement within the administration that the emissions targets in the paris agreement were unfavorable to the united states. and so there was an agreement to try to lower those targets. the question was whether to do

it within the structure of the paris agreement or to break away and go our own way which is what the president ultimately decided. and there were some clues last week when we heard gary cohn on the foreign trip, i was there when he was tell ing reporters the president's thinking of climate change was evolving, leaning toward the european position, he was understanding these rules are not binding and can, in fact, renegotiate the terms of the emissions targets within the paris accord. some thought that's where he was headed but ultimately he decided to blow it all up and go his own way which is so much in keeping with how he campaigned and with what the nationalists like steve bannon have been urging him to do for many months. >> all right. thank withdryou so much for beih us, incredible reporting in your paper again. >> thank you, nicolle. >> so much winning. all right. when we come back, we're going to talk about how this impacts ivanka's brand coming out on the losing side of a big presidential policy debate. hat e off to ancestry.

my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. ♪ everything your family touches sticks with them. make sure the germs they bring home don't stick around. use clorox disinfecting products. because no one kills germs better than clorox. whuuuuuat?rtgage offer from the bank today. you never just get one offer. go to lendingtree.com and shop multiple loan offers for free! free? yeah. could save thousands. you should probably buy me dinner. pappa's eatin' steak tonight. no. at lendingtree, shop and compare loan offers from top lenders and in just 5 minutes, you could save thousands.

lendingtree, when banks compete, you win. i love date night. somebody's ruining it. yeah. well you could leave if you wanted to? other

. we're back. ivanka trump went way out on a limb politically and publicly and came up short. what impact do you think this has for her inside the west wing? >> she and jared have been mentioned as this all powerful source throughout the campaign as being the final word. >> not just the final word but the moderating word. the people that tell the president not to stick his finger in the socket. >> and you look at this at a

time when she wanted influence and an issue she really cares about and she didn't have any impact. it makes you would understand how her stock within the white house, and that hierarchy of she and jared being so untouchable with the staff, how that proceeds from here. >> and how it affects her public standing. her real cache with the public was she was not only the moderating force but the influence. that's why jared is there. and now you go this public and deliver nothing. why are you in the west wing? i think you have to understand donald trump. i've had dealings with him for 30 years. any time anyone is perceived to have influence on him, his instinct is to show, i'm in charge. >> even his daughter? >> if you put vbannon on the cover of "time" magazine, he ignores bannon. his daughter comes out on climate change, i'm going to listen to bannon because i'm be

going to be pushed around by my kids. you are dealing with a guy so into himself that he is going to always affirm that i'm in charge here. even if he is charging the nation the wrong way. >> here's what i'm trying to figure out. i think she knows her dad and she knows this all hyper nationalism, far right populism is an act. an act that he concocted because he thought that was the best way to become president of the united states. he doesn't believe it. he's a capitalist. he believes in business and his own brand. with ceos calling in, this is not his natural position. he was convinced that the best way to get his political base shored up was to follow bannon. and i think she knows, that's not my dad. >> and bannon told him that. and do not underestimate how a lot of this is, he feels like he's undoing major things that president obama does. and he is on a global level, how i can say to the world, i'm reversing obama. there's a new sheriff in town. >> he did get a ton of flak for

putting this agreement. but it is almost the right kind of attention for him right now. he loves it. he loves having the liberal press, having the media, having everyone against him. that just encourages and reinvigorates him. >> he also described being liked. sean spicer described his relationship with angela merkel as unbelievable on tuesday. now we have two weeks in a row with our president sticking his finger in the eye of our closest allies. and pulling out of paris, nato. >> i wonder how much he cares about being loved in western europe. it seems like he's found his natural home and affinity with autocrats. you look at still this bromance continuing with putin and i think donald trump's presidency will be defined with relationships with nontraditional allies that normally we try on keep at arm's length. >> his problem is he says, i wasn't elected to be president

of paris but pittsburgh. his problem is when those jobs don't come to pittsburgh. the coal miners don't get jobs. when the chickens come home to roost politically, that's when he will have a problem. he is playing to a crowd. i agree with you for bannon. but when he can't deliver, then what is he going to say? >> and the mayor of pittsburgh and mayors across this country and governors, we are going to sign up to keep our emissions in control. we are concerned about climate change. if our president won't do it, we'll do it ourselves. mmm...that's some really good chicken. i don't think i've ever tasted chicken like this. what!? here come the accents. blueberries and pumpkin. wow. that was my favorite bite so far. not even kidding. i mean that was... ...oh! spinach! mmm. that's like three super foods. pretty, uh, well...super. now i got kind of a pumpkin, chicken thing going on... ...whoop! time to wrestle. (avo) new beneful grain free.

out with the grain, in with the farm-raised chicken. healthful. flavorful. beneful.

as we mentioned at the top of the show, megyn kelly just wrapped up an exclusive interview with vladimir putin in st. peters berg. we'll bring you that interview coming up. thank you to jeremy bash and the

reverend al for joining the panel. "mtp daily" coming up. >> game one is game one. lebron has survived plenty of game one losses. we'll see you single. >> if it's friday, we're about to hear exclusively from president putin. he pushes back denying the russian government meddled in the u.s. election. >> translator: even in those reports, there are assumptions, allegations and conclusions based on allegations. >> but it is one day after suggesting patriotic russian citizens were behind the hacks. plus, the white house and a kremlin linked bank have very different explanations for a secret meeting between jared kushner and that