you're the subject of intense scrutiny in america because of your meeting with donald trump's son-in-law jared kushner. >> watching. >> there's some confusion what exactly happened. were you talking about business or politics? >> please. >> have you been contacted by the fbi or would you be prepared to talk to them? mr. gorkov? >> i'm sorry. >> just a question of what happened at the meeting?

>> trumps son-in-law and jared kushner. >> the russia probe are asking themselves now what happened in that 30-minute december meeting. as of now, it's unclear. gorkov's bank, which is the subject of u.s. sanctions, claims the meeting was strictly a business matter. the gorkov met with kushner in his capacity as a businessman. the white house claims it was a diplomatic encounter. so did they discuss sanctions against russia for invasion of ukraine or was the topics loans for kushner in deep debt. for now we have more questions than answers. congress and fbi another question did attorney general, then senator jeff sessions have

an additional undisclosed meeting with sergey kislyak at the hotel in 2016. multiple and current officials told msnbc news a meeting did happen that day, the justice department has flatly denied any meeting at the mayflower. every week we get a little closer to piecing the puzzle together. next week comey's testimony about his awkward discussions with president trump will take center stage as well as trump doesn't use his privilege to block him from talking. nantz, former double agent, former spokesperson nayyera haq. thank you for being here. malcolm, i want to come to you first an gorkov, i did my air quotes, he's not a banker. >> he is not a banker. he's a kgb trained intelligence

officer. he attended school of intelligence, 101st school of human intelligence training for them. and then left what and to be russian intelligence and went into banking. that indicated in our world may have started as nonofficial intelligence officer put spoke banking in order to create what we now call bank of spies, vee bank, implicated in arrest of fsb intelligence officers here in the united states a few years ago. so he can be a banker and spy at the same time. >> you then have this further information, circumstantial but "washington post" had article about gorkov's whereabouts in this meeting with kushner. a 19c twin-engine jet owned by a bank flew to moscow from united states december 13th and depart freddie newark airport outside new york city 5:00 p.m. december 14th according to positional

flight information provided by a company called flight aware which tracks airplanes. the post cannot confirm whether gorkov was on the flight. the plane's previous flights closely mirrored gorkov's publicly known travels in recent months, st. petersburg, the week the story ran, japan where putin happened to be. would it be common if gorkov felt he had mission accomplished to talk to jared kushner, to then report back to putin. >> the whole thing is questionable. the vee bank, 2015, where we have carter page. i think there is something to that -- i'm going to give a big leap, even if it was an innocent meeting on jared kushner's part, the russians had to look at this, the future son of law of the president of the united states, how can russian intelligence take advantage of

this. russian -- even if we say goingoff was not an intelligence officer i have to believe word would have gotten back on the russian side and they would look and say how can we take advantage, man it late it. jared kushner at best put himself in a position to be manipulated by russian intelligence. that is remarkable for someone a month away from entering the white house. >> if there's an innocent explanation for all of this, one wonders why the stories keep shifting. so you now have -- the tribune had a piece, there's discrepancy between what the russians say was going on and the white house. the russian side, veb side said it was a business meeting. they were meeting with jared kushner as head of the company. this is after the election. the white house is saying, no, he's on a diplomatic mission. how do we square that? >> we can't. the problem is re,here is no innocent explanation. every answer they have is bad.

you've dpoot situation, you're left with is jared kushner a fool or is he corrupt. you have, all right, let's assume it was a business meeting. you want to borrow money. do you know of many bankers who come flying from another country to you to talk to you about giving you money? this is not making any sense, the number one. number two, jared kushner knew what his role was. jared kushner knew his father-in-law was about to be the president of the united states. and he feels like it's appropriate to be doing going ts connected to the kremlin and say, hey, i want some money. that's business operation idea. number two, have you a meeting between jared kushner and bank in terms of dealing with national security issues supposedly, or getting into issues of diplomacy. what is jared kushner doing

getting involved in that to begin with? secondly, why are they doing this at a time when donald trump is not the president of the united states. nothing should have been doing on without it being done in coordination with the state department. that is how these things are handled. you don't start with coming administration now starts running secret meetings undermining national security and foreign policy of the united states. it just doesn't work that way. nayyera, you worked for the state department, i'm sure you would concur that's the normal way things take place. more and more information drifting out may have been conversations about lifting sanctions. interesting timewise. mid december obama administration had not yet implemented the new sanctions on the russians for the hacking of the dnc. that didn't happen until -- the announcement of it was december 30th. you're in this period where the

obama administration is deciding what they will do in response to intelligence services russia hacked in and then you have trump incoming people trying to get these back channels to happen. and there may have been discussions about lifting the previous sanctions. they would talk about lifting crimea-related sanctions on the russians. what do you make of the fact now you fast forward "washington post" has a story this past week about the trump administration to try to essentially lift new sanctions, lift sanctions that had to do with hacking our election by returning maryland and long island compounds seized by united states and taken away from the russians. what do you make of that. >> context is key. it points to quid pro quo situation. it really does look like jared kushner as the son-in-law and with the president, he could make things easier down the line in exchange for helping his

father-in-law get elected to the presidency. that's part of the problem with this family not understanding how government works. they actually could have created a better or different relationship with the russians had they used the state department and existing channels. there's no problem with wanting to have a different relationship with russia when you're new commander in chief. the problem is trying to avoid all government sources, all government access and channels to have an objective as fundamentally about reward, give-and-take and deal making related to family connections. >> and malcolm, these two complexes, the obama administration believed were used for espionage. is there any innocent reason you would give back complexes that were used for spying, back to the country that used them? >> these facilities have been phony for decades to have been dual role. recreation and facilities for russians and diplomatic

personnel and known since perhaps john f. kennedy's time. the key point, exploiting their systems. i have no idea. however, the obama administration had determined they played a role in the hacking of u.s. election through cyber warfare and that that and the 35 intelligence personnel that were operating those systems needed to leave the united states. so for anyone to come back, this may have been michael flynn's phone call five times in one day, assuring them they would be coming back, which is mind boggling to actually bring back an intelligence collection center of a hostile nation. at some point, i think donald trump is just going to up and admit all of it. i'm going to bring it back. >> or putin will do it for him. you have the fact to be that eight days before this announcement or this leak about the compound, the russian sort

of twitter world, i guess one of their state-run twitter accounts tweeted a demand they give the compounds back. a few days later we hear they are going to give them back. there does seem to be a lot of coordination publicly, a lot of coordination. in your view, given what we know now, the democrats have wtten a letter to the white house counsel, who has his own interesting sty. we'll have to get into that one day on the show. saying given the severity of the allegations and prior revelations he admitted the meeting with kislyak and others when he got his security clearance requesting immediately lose security clearance. in your view, shouldn't jared kushner lose his security clearance? >> absolutely. the reality, if jared kushner or michael flynn had been honest, let's say at best oversight or omission, which i don't think it was, let's assume they dutifully, correctly written in the system, put these meetings,

i think it's very possible the person reviewing that application would probably not have given them a clearance. because meeting with russian intelligence officer a month before you get spot white house as a private citizen for the average person that would be a red flag. that would be a disqualifying thing. even if they had been honest and truthful and complete in their answer, that alone, that meeting, probably would have stopped them from getting clearance. right now they are disclosing, fair to remove that clearance and remove them from a position of trust and confidence until this can be resolved. that's the normal course of action for anyone else. >> does it add to the intrigue that the person meeting with kushner, the very guy, michael flynn, winds up getting turned out of the administration because of his undisclosed and weird contacts with kislyak and other members of russian intelligence? >> well, actually, i kind of find that to be the most

interesting element. when you start to think of how an investigation works, and you start going up the chain of command, flynn is the fella who knows where all the bodies are buried. flynn was there. flynn is also the person who is under the greatest threat of criminal charges given all of his failures to disclose relating to turkey, relating to his meetings. and so i would be totally expecting there to be testimony of a witness, michael flynn, as to what jared kushner said at that meeting. >> yeah, that's going to be the key. really quickly, malcolm. >> i've got a very interesting point about that michael flynn, jared kushner thing. if michael flynn escorted jared kushner into a meeting where they asked for covert communication as director of

defense, he would have known what u.s. capability was to break those diplomatic communications. did he instruct jared kushner, go and ask for secure combs because we have no way of breaking it that right there is an espionage violation. we need to find out whether flynn knew what was going on in that room or whether he was encouragingette because he was compromising u.s. intelligence. >> let's don't forget viewers out there, it's hard to follow the time line but michael flynn visited gru. he bragged about being the only american military person to go inside russian spy facility. he knew what they looked like from the inside. thank you very much. nayyera and curt will be back in the next hour. coming up, americans about to march for one of donald trump's least favorite things, the truth. that's next. throughout ] the mummy... has returned. you wish to see...

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is it still the administration's position, though, that jared kushner was in the meeting with the russian as a representative of the transition representing the president. >> as i said to kaitlyn, we're focused on the president's agenda. going forward all questions on this matter will be forwarded to outside counsel. >> mr. president -- >> mr. president, did you set up back channel with the russian. >> if you're looking for answers in the ongoing white house a&e russia probe, they don't have any. despite silence protesters taking to the streets to demand answers for and independent investigation into the the ties. right here in new york. you're seeing that on your screen right now.

joining me now two people that will address marches. thank you for being here. sarah, i'll start with you. there was a poll that just came out from reuters that asked whether or not people believe congress should launch independent investigation into the campaign and russia communication. 59 said they should. the majority of the public is with you. what is the point of the marches, then. the public is already on the side of the marchers. >> the public has been demanding a lot of things from the administration that refuse to provide. truth, tax returns, accountability, honesty. this is a way for the public to make their demands known, do over things the trump administration has done we find objectionable, ties with russia and push to hold them accountable, push to make sure promises this investigation carried out, fulfilled.

if crimes are discovered criminals will be prosecuted. >> let me say, jill, have you listened to john mccain on may 16th at the international republican institute dinner talking about this situation. >> i think we've seen this movie before. i think it's reaching the point where it's watergate size and scale and a couple of other scanls you and i have seen. it's a sent pevent pead. a different aspect of this situation. >> the watergate scandal so much a part of. a, the other party controlled congress, in real jeopardy of impeachment unlike now. b, members of nixon's own party, republicans at the time, were willing to confront him. even john mccain hasn't shown

any willingness to do anything about trump. do you think we'll be in a watergate situation? >> portfolio we talk about impeachment, i assume you what mean by the watergate situation, the american public needs facts. the om way to get those facts is through a public hearing. the special prosecutor is a very good step but that will only let the prosecutor know what will happen after the investigation is over and indictments are returned or not returned. in the meantime we do, as kate said, we do need tack returns, financial information about connections between banks and jared kushner and the president. there's a lot of things we don't know. we do need the testimony of comey and flynn. i think that the reason for the march is to encourage our legislators and the white house to cooperate in letting the american public know if there is something that happened and what

exactly that was. >> sarah, to that point, a friend of the show writing a column for "washington post" she said gop investigation is a joke and americans know it. this is her latest column. nets house nor senate requires legitimate nonpartisan investigation will be taken. we've argued at least select committee and proper staff and sfunding required. the argue for truly independent commission or special prosecutor gets stronger with each passing day. david frum agrees with her saying special prosecutor not the answer, inquiry focused on criminal conduct, wait to answer questions swirling around trump and associates independent commission, select committee or commission isn't barred looking at earlier events. and independent commission seeks the truth. at this point, sarah, and you've studied authoritarian before, legislature doing performance of investigation and don't have any

intention doing a real one do you have faith independent commission could be stood up that could to better? >> it's not a matter of faith but demanding accountability, which is why we're marching today. i agree with those assessments. i've been saying since november we need nonpartisan investigatity investigation. americans as they have been doing all along will likely take matters spoke their own hand in terms of journalism, leaks from people in our government who are concerned about our national sovereignty, concerned about national security. there's nothing that will stop people from pursuing the truth. it's a matter whether our own officials are accountable. find out greatest priority is serving american people or placating foreign power. that's the question we need to investigate. >> a depressing question, jill. i want to let our audience listen to elijah cummings. these are representatives we

send to washington in order to do this very work. one of their own, a member of congress, elijah cummings calling for independent investigation themselves calling for an investigation. >> house republicans have shown repeatedly that they refuse credible robust oversight over this president. they do as little as humanly possible just to claim they are doing something. republicans are not doing their job to hold the republican president accountable, and so it's our job to do so. >> jill, in your view, is the only way to get an investigation going to put democrats in charge of the house or the senate? >> i think that would certainly change the dynamics of the situation but we could also look to something like the 9/11 commission, which was a bipartisan, independent group

that held public hearings, that helped america get through the 9/11 crisis. i think we could do the same thing here. the special counsel can bring justice through independent criminal laws. the independent commission could let the american people know right now what is going on, can the president be trusted, has he violated national security, has he violated laws, has his family, have his top aides. those are questions we need to know the answer to before we go to the polls in 2018. so it's important that we do that and get the answers now. facts matter. we learned that in watergate. >> sarah, i do wonder whether we've crossed a rubicon, independent congress for donald trump. >> republicans have shown every indication they want to obstruct justice. i don't mean all republicans, because there have been some from the gipg that have been

pushing for the same things. you've seen with devin nunes and trump himself firing comey, that's a serious position. that's all the more reason republicans of good conscious, those that do want to fight for our country, conserve its integrity, to fight in a nonpartisan effort to continue the investigation. there's more than partisanship at stake. the future of our country, integrity of our democracy at stake. that's not something americans should be taken lightly. >> we certainly will be following marches today. thank you for ting time wit us. >> thank you. >> thank you. up next, my exclusive intview with senat elizabeth warren. stay with us. ♪

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got a chance to sit down with massachusetts senator elizabeth warren moments after president trump pulled out of

the paris climate accords. i asked the senator for her reaction. >> this is how i see this. this is one more reason we must all be in this fight. this is one more reason we must all raise our voices. this is one more reason we've got to be effective, we've got to be focused and we've got to make change in washington. that's -- boy, if we learn that today, shame on us. >> coming up next, you'll hear what senator warren had to say about russia. you do not want to miss it. baa baa black sheep, have you any wool? no sir, no sir, some nincompoop stole all my wool sweaters, smart tv and gaming system. luckily, the geico insurance agency recently helped baa baa with renters insurance. everything stolen was replaced. and the hooligan who lives down the lane was caught selling the stolen goods online.

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welcome back. on thursday i attended joyous persistence conference for women activists in san francisco where i had a chance to do a 40-minute q&a with senator elizabeth warren. it was a wide ranging conversation that covered many topics but none more important than senate's inaction on

holding donald trump accountable for his ties to russia. take a look. >> the russia infiltration into the election gets more alarming every day. it is really shocking the extent to which they were able to have contact with people now in government or would have been had they not been out. is there behind the scenes a level of alarm equal to the level of outrage outside the senate chamber? [ applause ] >> no. no. no. so look, i'm with you, there is not the level of alarm, there is not the level of pushback. there's not the level of what's going on here. it's not happening. this really has me scared. think about -- let's talk about it for a s.e.c.

why not? hang on. so just think about just a few of the things we know, right? our intelligence agencies across the board have made it clear that the russians hacked into american systems in order to influence the outcome of the 2016 election. this is not debatable. no is not alternative facts. this is known. there is lots of evidence on this. they don't want to make the evidence public but they will make it public to every representative and every senator and a president, or that president interested in seeing it, right, so the information there. this part we know for sure. we know that high officials in the trump administration have had to resign because of their

direct contact with the russians. we also know out of the mouth of donald trump himself that he said he wanted to -- he was firing fbi director comey, at least in part, because he wanted shut down that investigation into the connections between russia, the united states -- the trump campaign and trump himself. now, if i had described those three facts to you a year ago, didn't even have to use the name of the president, any president, like president clinton or some other president, right, you would have said this would not be partisan. there would be democrats and republicans all over this. they would be all over this.

and instead we have a lot of republicans who have just not been willing to step up to the plate. in fact, i want you to watch what the republicans are doing. we've got to talk about republican majority in the house and senate are doing as well. right now, they have got a president who will sign off on pretty much anything they can get organized and get through. that means they are out there doing trickle down economics on steroids. they are out there rolling back the regulations and trying to do everything they can to help that thin slice at the top, and they are doing it. so just look at the first weeks after donald trump was sworn in and what happens.

so xiong passes a bill and trump signs off to make it he'sior for federal contractors to receive employees' wages. stays right under the radar screen. makes it easier for companies that kill or maim their employees, right, to be able to hide that fact. one after another, they keep goes through rolling back regulations. regulations on the silica dust people breathe. every time how can we help out corporate america at the cost of working america and they are pushing those things through. >> when you're in the chamber, what are they saying to justify it. >> they don't. this is the part that frustrates me in some ways. well, i can't pick the part that frustrates me the most. i will use that phrase like 94 times in the next 10 minutes. this one is frustrating. we stand up -- i did this, stood

up on every one of these bills. i stand up and talk about them, fight about them. and often it's in an empty chamber. if this is a republican, there's always at least one republican because they have to sit in the chair when we're in session. i'll look at the republican, and the republican is like -- nobody engages. i do ask this question. i asked, oh, what was the very first thing we passed here. the very first one was we had worked on a regulation for years. going back to 2010, bipartisan, introduced by a republican back then that said basically the

short version was the american corporations that do business in the extraction industry, oil and diamonds, have to reveal the payments they make to foreign governments. everybody in here get what that's really about? right, rex tillerson, i've heard that name, said at the time, terrible, terrible. can't do that. if you do, that we won't be able to do business in russia. think about that. and so we finally get this regulation through that says -- doesn't say they can't do it. all it says is you've got to be public about it. you're going to have to tell, which frankly means the locals will know about it, and the rest of the world community will know about it. what happened? one of the first bills we do just rolls that back so they can continue to keep those payments secret. i still remember going to the floor to talk about what the

bill did and to say, really, is this who we've become as a country? can just one republican come down here and give me a justification why we should permit american corporations to go extract from these companies and to be able to make payments they want to keep secret. just say it what it is that's doing on. the answer is total silence. that's been true on every one of these regulations. this has been true with this latest judicial appointment. this is true over and over. it is we don't have to engage with you anymore. we don't have to have a debate about this. we don't have to talk about how this will happen. we have got the votes, the republicans have said. republicans are just doing to roll this stuff through. this is why i come back to the importance of the day after the

inauguration, the importance of the science march. the importance of the fact we took on the to the airports when donald trump put in place a muslim ban. in boston at least we did our rally the next week. the importance of this is to say we don't have the numbers. we don't have the numbers in the united states senate. we don't have numbers in house of representatives. we have a lot that can happen between now and november '18. i want everybody jazzed and ready to go and vote in 2018 but we've got to fight these fights now. the only thing we've got, the only thing we've got is your voices to help back us up on this. that's all we've got. >> more of my interview with senator warren is next. coming up in the next hour the fight for the soul of the democratic party. a mystery surrounding ivanka trump, china and shoes. more "am joy" after the break. [ dog whimpers ]

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during my interview with senator elizabeth warren, i asked the question we've all been wondering? >> i cannot be on the stage and not ask you this question. are you going to run for president? i need someone that understands my unique needs. my dell small business advisor has gotten to know our business so well, that it feels like he's a part of our team. with one phone call, he sets me up with tailored products and services. and when my advisor is focused on my tech, i can focus on my small business. ♪

you're a well-known, nationally known figure. you're somebody with governmental experience. you're popular with both factions of the party, bernie faction as well as hillary clinton faction. are you going to run? >> no. hold on, hold on, hold on. i want to be really clear about this. i'm running for senate in 2018, go massachusetts. i announced early. i don't want anybody to doubt whether or not i'm in. but i want to be very clear to

everybody in this room, politics cannot be just what happens every four years. >> joining me crystal ball, senior fellow at the new leaders council, council. this is going to be fun. i'm going to start with you crystal. i asked elizabeth warren, but she gave the no, and she made an important point that we can't just be focused on running for president. in your opinion, should she run and would she be viable. >> absolutely she would vieable. there are a lot of people that are excited about her. you really believe she wakes up in the morning thinking about how to fight for the people, she is fearless, she gets out there,

she has been a real leader since donald trump has been elected. i think she kind of missed her moment back in 2016. and the way that she handled her decision of whether or not to endorse bernie sanders or hillary clinton, waiting to the very end, it felt very political. and i know there is still bruised feelings on the berne ie side. i think she is final,viable. i think a lot of democrats will be running, a lot jumping into the fray, but she would have been in a stronger position in 2016. >> i feel like in a lot of ways elizabeth warren comes from the democratic wing of the democratic party, i remember that was your thing in 2004. the democrats need to get back to being democrats and fighting for the little guy, caring more about the people than the banks. that was your message in 2004,

she has the same party, would she be viable and should she run? >> she is viable, i believe strongly that my generation needs to step into a coaching role and have younger people running for president. it is unusual to go back a generation. barack obama was a new generation and we went back. hillary clinton was the overw l overwhelming favorite. i would like to see someone between the age of 40 and 55 run for president of the united states and get the nomination and be the next president. i don't know who that person might be, there is plenty of good people. the nonsense about the democrats not having a good sense is just silly. people like martin hienricks, jill garcetti.

i can name many people that are relatively young. >> the other issue with the party is the group that came out and turned out less than they did with barack obama were of course people of color. howard reeled off names in the party, we don't hear a lot of names of color and we know there is voter suppression that had something to do with voter pu turnout as well. is there someone that can be viable, that can support the hillary clinton people and the bernie sanders people, is there a magical person is elizabeth warn that snern. >> -- person?

>> she is viable, but to your point, in 2020, which is so far away, we do have a diverse bench. and i think duo have somal ee l talented people out there, but the democratic party has a lot of work to do. that rising elector ra, they have not been taken care of. they have not been pokeen to. you had a great panel last week about black women who i believe, we believe, are the backbone of the democratic party. we have to do a lot of work done, millennials went for the third party candidate. we have to do work there as well. we can't forget the rising electoral a electorate. as you were talking about, as well, voter suppression was such a major deal when you look at wisconsin, 300,000 people were not able to vote.

the problems they have with voter suppression because of what the voters are doing there. we're talking about two important states that when you're stalkitalking about gett 270 it is very important. so we have to do the work that is needed to be done. >> and party building is the key, right? crystal, you started a new organization that is sort of controversy trying to de-pelosi the party. what do you think the party should be doing. >> that's not what we're trying to do, just to be clear, but we want to restore the brand of the democratic party, specifically in the rust belt. that means candidates that are connected to their communities rather than to the donor class. i think that we have to work to restore that credibility with

voters there, and to add to our very strong civil rights plank, having an economic message that is strong. >> can that work, howard dean? >> it can, but i don't see the key reconnection for people that voted for donald trump. i think when we get into power we have to deal with that and many much more helpful. the tax code has to be changed. people are trying to build schools in west virginia do. i see us catering to our base. i think the really good part is that the democrats are better than the republicans on these issues. that is a group that we really should be working very, very hard with. i didn't mention pamela harris and corey booker. i have been doing a lot of thinking about whether or not our webest candidate is a candidate of color.

our first globals that really believe they are a multicultural generation, and barack obama was the first multicultural president. >> or we could get emanuel macaron to run two countries. up next, the rise of hate, don't go away. t makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. now i can start relaxing even before the vacation begins. your vacation is very important. that's why booking.com makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit booking.com now to find out why we're booking.yeah! what's the best way to get v8 or a fancy juice store?s? ready, go! hi, juice universe? one large rutabaga, with eggplant... done! that's not fair. glad i had a v8. the original way to fuel your day.

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the medicines you take including herbal supplements. taking amiodarone with harvoni can cause a serious slowing of your heart rate. common side effects of harvoni include tiredness, headache and weakness. ready to let go of hep c? ask your hep c specialist about harvoni. racism may always be part of the world, part of america, and the hate in america, especially for african-american it is living every day. no matter how much money you have, no matter how famous you are, no matter how many people admire you, you know, being black in america is tough. >> welcome back to am joy.

this is where we are in america. one of the biggest stars in the world was forced to confront the fact that to some he will just be a black body to terrorize. someone vandalized his front gate, and at a american history museum someone left a noose. in oregon, a white supremist is accused of killing two people. in college park, maryland, the fbi is investigating the murder of a black student as a possible hate crime. an attacker shouted rasht slurs and stabbed a black man with a

machete. they found a 6% increase in hate crimes in u.s. cities last year. it is already seeing noticeable increases in some cities this year. in the southern poverty law center, they have seen an alarming rise in hate crimes in the last several months. dean, i will start with you, you wrote a great clum that i highly recommend at "the daily beast." it got some incredible backlash. will donald trump ever say white s supremacist terrorism. why would it help him to say the words? >> it won't help him, it will help us. if we keep him at his word, he attacked hillary clinton for not using the words "radical islamic

terrorism." he said if you don't name it, you can't stop it. there was one more incident. in march, a self-described white supremist traveled a city so that he could kill black people. he called elizabeth warren a racist, a fraud, the media the enemy of the people, but he has never used those words. he back pedals all of the time and there are coded words out there. we're going to see another dylan roof or worse until he says the words to neutralize them. >> we cannot say that every person that commits a hate crime is a donald trump adherer or supporter and that he is responsible for their actions,

but donald trump tweets about everything. he stays up at night and he tweets nonsense words, but he didn't tweet about portland. it was very striking because you did have even a member of the united states military who was killed. heroic people that spintervenedo save two teenager girls from a hate crime. and even when there was a twit, it didn't come from his account, it was the potus account. the right words, but not from donald trump's personal account. what is the significance of that? >> it is significant and it is important that you pointed it out. even if you want today give him the benefit of the doubt that he does care about all americans of all colors and faiths, you really can't. why does it take him so long to acknowledge or tweet sympathy

for these horrific contacacts. it took three days for the terrible incident in portland, so it is like, he is not responsible for racism, but she responsible for the culture that he created in this country where people feel like their hate is legitimatized because the president encourages it. i thought it was interesting that the southern poverty law center said they often see the rise in hate crimes happening in these communities that he demonizes. >> let's go to you, richard, hait groups have been hate groups have been intensifying. >> that's right, trump's rhetoric coupled with his constant attacks on so-called

political correctness have given license to people with hate in their heart. trump needs to do more than denounce it now. trump needs to take some responsibility for the virus of hate that he has unleashed. until he apologizes for what he has done, until he is held accountable for his words, i'm afraid it will be difficult to cure this virus in our country. >> i want to read a little piece that came out on thursday. this is what he wrote about the backdrop of trump and what he has to do with all of this. all of this takes police against political intolerance. he ran on a platform of ethno-nationalism. he adds a recent working paper suggest that when people view trump's popularity as going up, it increasing their willingness to express their zenophobic

views. curt, you like dean, have been the target of some of these people who are angry at you for not supporting trump 37 . so you have seen it in your own life. people have tried to physical harm you because you do not important donald trump. >> because i write things they don't like. >> is this something in your kpeerns that experience that is increasing or just part of the gig. >> it has increased over time and escalated. donald trump is the end of the line. when you go back to 2010 when the department of homeland security came out with a report talking about the threat of right-wing extraism. and it is a huge threat, these are terrorists and violent

people. the rush limbaughs and members of congress and sean hannitys all came running out saying they're saying conservatives are violent. what just 457ed? in order to attack obama they said conservatives are right-wing terrorists. they told the white wing extremists you're one of us. it's not a surprise that the statistics show that when the republicans control at least one house of congress, this kind of violence goes up. because it is not just trump. nobody is repudiating it. and when you finally have trump in office and trump is, you know, both expressly and encouraging this, when you this rhetoric, someone running for congress that body slams a reporter for asking a question, this country is over.

we cannot operate like this. we cannot have our politicians telling those that we represent that violence is okay. if you criticize the right-wing terrorists thast's bad. racism is okay. whatever you want to say is okay, just do be islamic. that is kind of where we are right now and the threats and attacks on me just goes with the flow, i think. >> i want to come back to you, rich. we saw with the rise of barack obama and his campaign, remember the monkey dolls, the witch doctor, the tea party portraying hy him. is it part of, is donald trump a continuum of an baobama-based

backlash? >> when obama was elected there was a tremendous backlash by the radical right. trump jumped on the birther band wagon to delegitimatize the president. and there was a celebration. we saw it really across the country and it was the reason why there was a tremendous spike in anti-muslim and antiimmigrant hate crimes. many of them bearing trump's signature. the two fphenomenon are related. >> it is sort of a triade. >> when he said islam hates us, and thousands of muslims cheered at 9/11, which rudy giuliani has was not true, you look at history, it tells us they're going to be emboldened.

the white supremacist are like this is fine -- no, they blew up a church months later. when the mississippi white supremacist governor, when he got in they committed more acts of terrorism. the mississippi burning happened them. they're not satisfied, they're like he's got our back and we can expect more of this. if donald trump doesn't salespeople ospeak out, we'll see more americans die. just so we're clear, i'm not saying that isis related terrorism is not a concern. a year ago we had the horrible attack in orlando. >> and it is very conspicuous that the attacks are typically on muslim women. >> yeah, it is unfortunate because of course we have been a favorite punching bag for trump that ran his entire political campaign on anti-muslim

sentiment. but unfortunately, the members of our community, of the muslim american community that have been targeted the most are the most visible. they are women that cover, women that wear the hijabs. they have really bore the brunt of trump's hate. >> it is mostly women. >> all of these people are cowards and bullies. that is the essence of it. if you look at what is advanced by these people, just vicious name calling, rape threats, it's a power game of people that are pretty intellectually tiny. i wrote an article that came out

about six months before the orlando attack. by that point there has been more attacks and killings by right-wing terrorists since 9/11 in the united states than there had been by islamic terrorists. the number of people killed was higher. we are still not talking about it enough. >> i should mention that i left one group out, because interestingly enough, the son-in-law of the president, many jewish people have been targeted as well. it has been across the board. thank you. coming up, democrats in the south may rise again. new bikes aren't selling guys...

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for trump it is a point of pride if he is able to chapture read or blue rust belt states. now his ratings are bad, very bad. only 39% approve of his work in the office. we have more on his upcoming special election, but there is another democrat that is making the 2018 guber in er nernatoria the real race to watch.

stacey abrams, great to talk to you. >> like wise, thank you for having me. >> what are your plans for 2018? >> i'm going to run for governor. >> you're the house minority leader, correct? >> yes, the leader of the democrats. >> how big is that contingent? >> we're 62 of 180. >> does that mean they have power and influence in georgia? >> that's one of the reasons imrunning. we never had a super minority in the house means that we can influence legislation. stop constitutional amendments, but we have been able to push positive legislation, and i want to take what we have been able to accomplish statewide. >> for those of you not listening to the show on the

sirius xm radio, i will tell you that stacey is an african-american woman. so you are two things, african-american, and a woman, so why should you win? >> i think georgia deserves to have a lead near thinks everyone in the state can thrive. as a person of color, a black woman, i had to overcome barriers miegs. i have had to navigate systems not meant for me. bringing people together. i want to bring together whites, blacks, latinos, and i believe that this campaign can redefine what it means to be a leader in the state and the country. >> let's put up the results of

the last presidential election. georgia was always -- if you add up the clinton and johnson factions it was a 59-41 race. number one, does george have enough voters of glor to help get a democrat elector. >> i think there are two things. we need to think about the history of george. in 2006 democrats lost by 400,000 votes. by 2016 we were under 200,000 vote margin. so what we have the hunt to do is build a coalition of voters. they are the majority of the democratic party.

the problem that we have is that no one has invaes vested in going to communities. you had smart, thoughtful well meaning candidates. we need messages that speak to the communities, that have not heard from anyone in decades, and that's what i lan to do. i already led the house caucus to take six republican seats to remind thaem this is their government, too. >> the democratic party doesn't have a great history for candidates that seem safe and of course -- obvious. >> it is a primary, they have a responsibility to remain neutral, but i will say that my work has led me to every single community. i have been to 150 counties in

georgia and there are 159, but i have also been able to bill relationships on the ground, and that is what i think it will take to win. we started with john ossoff but i was every vote tore be touched by democrats. >> do you think which he win? >> absolutely. he will absolutely win, he is running a smart, thoughtful rate, reaching out across communities, and doing the hart work of being consistent. >> thank you for making that announcement on am joy. >> if you want to learn more about my campaign, go to www.stac www.staceyabrams.com i would love to tell them more about my

campaign. >> good luck with your campaign, we pope to have you back soon. >> thank you, still to come, the every ending quest for working white class voters. every to be heard... ♪ to move... with you...

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while the current agreement effectively blocks a development of clean coal in america, which is does, and the mines are starting to open up, a big opening in two weeks. >> it was no coincidence that he name checked those states wheel announcing his withdrawal from the paris climate agreement. while some rust belt voters may applaud it, many of his other policies like cuts to security

and disability insurance, it may be why some democrats see opportunity to win back the rust belt and appalachia. it is the house minority leader nancy pelosi, but should they be disi dissing one of their leaders? i ask crystal ball when we come back. ♪

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you have two very good political strategists running for the house. nancy pelosi, chuck schumer,

they know how to win, their focused and effective. >> nancy pelosi has been a key gop candidate in hotly contested races. now a any organization says the key to winning over trump voters may be to avoid the pelosi factor all together. joining me is crystal ball, howard dean, and niera hack. tell me about this new organization, crystal, and what your organization and what you're aiming to do. it is not exactly what we're doing. what we're looking at is traditionally, and this is true

when i have run for congress, what they look at when they're selecting candidates is how connected they are do the donor community. we can help them raise the money, and it turns that on it's head. we really lose the credibility because we say we're the party of the people, but we're very connected to wall street and silicon valley. so that is one way we're planning to build the credibility in the region. >> and the question i have coming up, isn't it the case that rust belt white voters are just republicans. they are remembpublicans -- >> i live in kentucky now, we still have a democratic attorney general. we just had a democratic

governor until a few years ago. we have democrats representing coal country in east kentucky. it's not just republicans. another point i would make here that is interesting and unfolding right now. we were talking in the make up room about the race in virginia for governor. two interesting democratic candidates. tom has run this very progressive race, very populist on economics. free community college,lying wage, but also racial and criminal justice reform. his strongest support in the state is in coal country. it is very interesting. it tells you that we can recontar reconnect and appeal to urban and rural voters. >> you had the same theory that there should be a 50 state

strategy. that democrats should not give up on the south. do you still believe that with donald trump uniformly beloved in those communities. >> first of all, i'm not sure he is uniformly beloved. >> he is at 87% approval with republicans. >> with republicans, that's true. but i agree that all all of those people voted democratic for a long time. we don't know yet because he practices conviction politics because i'm a huge fan, but that was his old district where he was very, very popular. he was broomed out by 6,000 votes in 2010. he could have gone back in 2012. first, nancy pelosi was the best speaker since tip oneil. a younger generation needs to be

in politics in leadership positions. that is not something that will help us connect to younger voters that will not do that. >> all right, let's, you did work for nancy pelosi who becomes a push pin. she did in 2010 and it was basically just about her for those 2010 midterms. i had a chance to interview the lieutenant governor who used to be the mayor there, and this is what he had to say. >> she has done an extraordinary job and she kept the base of our party together in remarkable ways. i know we're going through a forensic of what happened, but her skills are exceptional. >> i could not be prouder.

>> paul ryan, running in the house rate in if the ossoff race. >> hi, georgia, we wanted to say thank you. >> we already have nancy pelosi noun you're giving us john ossoff. >> we're really excited that he likes higher taxes -- >> that sort of cultural, i don't know what you would even call that, making fun of or putting down the squishy san francisco elite and using that to run in georgia. >> i will disagree about it working. in 2003 when colorado was still a red state going purple at the time. same context, we had george

bush, you had the salazar brothers that broke through with this libertarian strain of democrats. social programs while still finding a way to be nra farmer and rancher types. they call out strongly supporting nancy pelosi. it gets asked in every election. trying to tie local leaders to international figures. we have not seen it work in congressional and localized elections. voting on how well they know the person, this is what nancy pelosi's strength has been. she is very good at kol realcor fundraising is phenom than in.

she has not put herself out there as the face of the democratic party because she understands these nuances. she supported several of what used to be the blue dog democrats. we no longer have those in congre congress. >> joe biden are some happy that he is back out, some people are not. he is launching a pac called "american possibilities." he wants to nationalize the election, let's listen to him at a rally for one of the candidates. >> because of the negative campaign, how much do we hear about that guy making $50,000 on an assembly line. his wife making $28,000 as a hostess. they have two kids, they live in a metropolitan yearea and they n hardly make it. sdwr i feel like we're going

back to that era when bill clinton, al gore, and other democrats said we have to turn the ship around, we have to talk about the joe and jane party, are we going back to the '90s? >> i think you're kind of seeing that play again. you were able to see him win and get to above 270. joe biden is always seen a a blue collar type of democrat that speaks directly to those type of voters. it sounds like he is using this pac to travel and help candidates across the country where it is needed and where he works. having someone like him there, and i think it will be very important. i want today go back for a second on nancy pely si. congress is very unupon lar. i think it makes sense that the

leadership in congress, republican and democrat, would be unpopular. i think it is on both sides of the aisle. nancy pelosi understands her conference, she knows how to get the votes, and she has been a successful leader and speaker. i think what democrats need to do is walk and chew gum at the same time. they also have a proactive message on the economy, on what's next, what is the future for this country and that is what they need to do. there are mess ans out there that we already know it works in red states and blue states. that is college affordability. that is women's rights. we know those issues. they are incredibly popular in red and blue states. >> here is a mistake that democrats can't make again which is to allow the working class

people. that assembly line station is not necessarily just a white man. it can be a woman of color, a man of color, someone that is gay, lesbian, or transgender. democrats are becoming the national security party and that is part of this russia issue in a they have abdicated being the an anti-russian party. so it is democrats standing up for working class, veterans, and for national security. >> going back to the dlc years is the opposite of what we need to do, that is part of what damaged the party. he said i feel your pain, and he was all about wall street in of. a lot of the problems we have with inequality, some of them came from clinton era

deregulation. so we're still recovering from the promises made by the dlc in the 60s and the reality of the proco pro-corporate policies. i think the point made was right, republicans are the ones who benefit from this divide in the working class. that decent mean there doesn't need to be an incredible focus on all of those people and pieces. white women and black women are the two group that's are most likely to be on the minimum wage. they are the most likely to take advantage of college. >> and they vote, and this is the problem that democrats have not been able to work out. every time they get in power they cut taxes for the rich. look at paul ryan's jaend. these are not unknown things yet

those white working class women vote republican every time. >> i would not say they're unwinnable. what we're doing right now means us losing in most places in the country. i'm talking about state houses. i'm talking about governor's mansions, how to have an appeal that is brouder. >> it is always the problem. they must know what it means, but didn't we just flaern this last election that politics are more powerful than economic interests because given the choice their still voting for -- but the person who made this,

and we talk about race in a different way had it right on the money. we have to treat black women, white women, and latino women all the same. the bar for african-americans has been raised. they are not going to vote as loyally as they had. the working glass problems are working class problems. we have to not aim at the white working class. that gets us into the trap of the dlc. we have to change the way we approach race in this country and as a nation. and that will get us back into the power that we deserve and how we can benefit the country. >> can we get you to all come back and do this again?

coming up, ivanka trump's labor pains, coming up. new bikes aren't selling guys... what are we gonna do? how about we pump more into promotions? ♪ nah. what else? what if we hire more sales reps? ♪ nah. what else? what iwe digitize the whole supply chain? so people can customize their bike before they buy it. that worked better than expected. i'll dial it back. yeah, dial it back. just a little. live business, powered by sap. when you run live, you run simple.

thank you to all of our tweets who engage in the conversation online. put #amjoy on all of your tweets. coming up, ivanka trump and her fashion brand facing backlash again. instead of allergy pills. it's more complete allergy relief in a gentle mist experience you'll barely feel. using unique mistpro technology, new flonase sensimist delivers a gentle mist to help block six key inflammatory substances that cause your symptoms. most allergy pills only block one. and six is greater than one. new flonase sensimist changes everything. p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting. oh yea, me too.

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more controversies brewing for the ivanka trump fashion line. a brand valued at more than $50 million. one labor activist investigating working conditions at a chinese factory that makes ivanka trump branded shoes has been detained. according to his wife and the workers rights organization china labor watch, two other activists are missing and presumed to be in custody. according to china labor watch, workers that produce goods for ivanka's brand are forced to

work more than 12 hours a day and at least six days a week for extremely low wages. ivanka's company as well as the white house has not commented on the investigators. joining me now is gordon chang, columnist for forbes.com and author of "the coming collapse of china." gordon, thanks for being here. let's talk about these facilities. we have a map here. there's a second one to the south and you can see the map there. according to "the new york times," about 100,000 to 200,000 pairs of ivanka trump's shoes are produced in these factories each year. tell us about these facilities. >> well, these factories are not bad by china's standards but the abuses were horrific. what you have is not only being paid below the minimum wage but forced overtime. people were working 18 hours a day. also student interns are allowed to work in these factories. they shouldn't be.

but indeed these factories were violating those student intern week rules. so essentially you've got a lot of labor violations. as i said, you see this all throughout china. what this really says is that ivanka trump by having her shoes made in china was sort of assuming this was going to happen, because it happens to everybody. the big brands, the small brands. she had to know this was going to occur. we also know labor activists have disappeared so she has to assume that would happen in her case, which in fact it just has. >> when you say she had to know, just in april china granted preliminary approval for spa and handbag trademark applications. this actually happened the exact same day the chinese president xi jinping held a summit in florida at mar-a-lago with ivanka's dad. >> ivanka met xi jinping on the day these trademarks were issued. this weren't the only trade

mosc marks she got under her dad so this stinks to high heaven. >> let's talk about the detentions here. so you have one of these activists who's been detained. he's been charged with illegal monitoring, and that's according to his wife who reported that in "the washington post." you have two people missing. they worked covertly at shoe factories in china that produce ivanka branded shoes. i'll read quickly a statement from china labor watch and that was to "the new york post." over the past 17 years china labor watch has conducted investigations in hundreds of factories across china. it is the first time any of our investigators have been detained under a criminal process. >> and the other thing about this is that these three individuals, the two who have disappeared and the one detained, these are in two separate provinces. which means that this is probably not coincidence, that probably what's occurring here is someone at the top of the chinese political system, maybe even poll of bureau standing committee made a decision to

disappear these activists. so this goes all the way to the top. and it shows as we talked about in terms of the trademarks and the obvious coordination of the issuance of these, this is also obvious coordination of people who are going to question ivanka trump's labor practices. >> i want to read a little more of the statement from china labor watch. our activists discovered evidence that a supplier factory for ivanka trump's brand company and many other brands had violated workers' rights in ways that included forced overtime, wages lower than china's minimum wage, managers' verbal abuse. we appealed to president trump, ivanka trump and related brand companies to advocate and press for the release of our activists. does it surprise you that ivanka trump, who her pr people are branding her as the compassionate member of the team, to encourage compassion in her father, does it surprise you they have said nothing and the white house has said nothing? >> there's nothing that they can say actually when you think about this. you know, her father ran on the idea of bringing manufacturing back to the u.s. to make america

great again. i think that they should make the trump family great again by actually bringing this manufacturing into the u.s. or at least not in a country that considers us to be an adversary and sometimes even an enemy. that even makes this worse. i can understand, you know, manufacturers going to china, but not for this family, because this has really been the core of their message. and i think ivanka trump needs to talk about this. she needs to at least say something to the american people because this is a matter of american interest. >> and would it be unusual for the chinese government to try to curry favor with an american president by essentially enriching his family and expecting that they will say nothing about things like this? >> well, they haven't done that before. this really in the trump administration is the first time they did it. you look back at his predecessors. president obama was not involved in business. bush was involved in businesses, but not in china. and so you have really a very different sort of atmosphere right now. >> it's unprecedented. gordon chang, thank you very much. appreciate your time. and that is our show for today. be sure to tune us tomorrow for

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every great why needs a great how. good day, everyone. i'm alex witt here at msnbc world headquarters in new york. it is precisely high noon here in the east, 9:00 a.m. out west, and here's what's happening out there. day 135 of the trump administration and new fallout from pulling the plug on the paris climate deal. one big question remains, what is the president's position on the issue of climate change? why does no one at the white house have an answer to that? anticipation builds for the coming week. former fbi director james comey set to testify. will the president try to stop him? and new details on that megyn kelly one-on-one exclusive interview with vladimir putin. what is he saying about whether the trump administration wanted to lift sanctions? those details next. but we begin with live pictures of new york