answer questions from the senate intelligence committee about russia and address new questions raised last week by jim comey about his reasons for recougs himself from the investigation into russian meddling in the 2016 presidential campaign. sessions will field questions in an open session tomorrow at a time that his department has been the target of president trump's ire over the appointment of a special counsel, the original investigation into russian interference and the muslim ban. we have assembled the best reporters. ashley parker, a white house parker for "the washington post," ken dilanian and kasie hunt who covers capitol hill for us. ken, i want to start with you. i wonder in light of comey's testimony last week and his answers about jeff sessions, it seems to suggest to me that he knew exactly why jeff sessions had recused himself from the russia investigation. if you think that the senate intel committee will be in possession of the same

information by the end of the day tomorrow? >> well, we know they already are because after that public testimony, james comey went behind closed doors and briefed the senate intelligence committee. our sources are telling us that he discussed this april 2016 event at the mayflower hotel and talked about some reporting that the fbi and the intelligence community is aware of that suggested there may have been a private encounter. now, jeff sessions denies through a spokesperson has denied that there was any private encounter at that meeting between him and the russian ambassador, sergey kislyak. what i'm watching for tomorrow is whether he's going to repeat that denial under oath or whether he says something more qualified like i can't recall or there may have been. to me it's a really important moment for sessions. if he does deny this meeting under oath, then it's up to the people who have evidence to the contrary to put up or shut up, to prove it. >> now, what is bob mueller watching for tomorrow? obviously it is with his knowledge, and i would guess his

agreement that this is a good idea, that the senate committees and the house intel committee continue their work. but what is bob mueller watching for when he sees someone like sessions who could end up being a pretty important -- i don't want to use the wrong word, but an important witness or important person to talk to in his probe. what sort of land mines are there for jeff sessions tomorrow? >> well, i would say that now gets us into the area of obstruction of justice and whatever role sessions played in the firing of comey and whatever role sessions played in comey trying to object to these private meetings with donald trump. if we assume, and it's pretty clear that james comey believes that bob mueller is investigating the president for obstruction of justice. if we assume that's going on, bob mueller would be very interested in what jeff sessions has to say about what comey told him, did comey ask him to prevent any further private meetings with the president and what role did he play in firing comey. did he know in his own mind that

donald trump was doing it as donald trump told lester holt with the russia investigation in mind. these are the questions i think mueller would be asking of jeff sessions. >> one more question. what sort of exposure does jeff sessions have if under oath he answers about being involved in jim comey's firing while he was recused from the russia investigation? >> i don't think that's a legal question, you know, whether he violated the terms of his recusal. there's not a criminal law implication there is my understanding but it would be a significant thing. but i can't imagine that he would acknowledge that. it's pretty clear that there was a stated reason for comey's firing that had to do with rod rosenstein's memo and his handling of the hillary clinton e-mail investigation and that was the story. and then donald trump went and said something entirely different to lester holt and comey made it pretty clear he thinks it was about the russia investigation. but it's hard for me to imagine that jeff sessions would acknowledge that.

>> so, caskasie, what is the tolerance for anything less than something that feels forthcoming from jeff sessions from the democrat and republican members of the senate intel committee. >> honestly it's pretty low. he has the unfortunate for him timing of going after the dni and the director of the nsa went before the committee and said we can't talk to you at all and then didn't give a good reason. so i think that really angered a lot of the members of the committee. there were members who were especially angry that those figures then didn't come into a closed session and be more forthcoming in that kind of a setting. and, look, you saw that the committee members can have real teeth when they are slighted in this way. so i think if jeff sessions is going to come up and say, hey, i can't talk about that, i can't talk about that, he better at least have a legal rationale for doing so. >> talk just a little bit about how this came to be.

he was supposed to be in front of the senate appropriations committee but instead he's in front of the isn't the intel committee. why is that? >> all of the cabinet secretaries have to justify their budgets and answer questions from the senators who are funding their departments. he said in this letter, look, it became very clear that this was going to become all about the russia investigation, so i'm going to kick that over to rod rosenstein, my deputy, and instead i will go before the committee of jurisdiction that is actually handling these matters. now, this is a curveball that's a little bit problematic for a couple of the reasons that you saw unfold. one is, okay, do we do it open, do we do it closed. but the other is the committee may not be 100% prepared. because if they know somebody is coming in a week ahead of time, they have much more time and there's a thoughtful process that goes into the committee itself. so the fact that was was a surprise puts the committee back on their heels a little bit. that in and of itself will make them defensive, i think. >> ashley parker, i want to play something for you today from sean spicer.

he got a question about this testimony and his answer made me turn my head to the side the way my dog does when she hears a high-pitched whistle. let's watch. >> did jeff sessions' folks at the doj ask for the white house's permission for him to testify publicly tomorrow? >> i don't know the answer to that question. i know congress generally speaking sets the -- whether a hearing is open or closed based on the sensitivity of the subject. >> is the president then okay with him testifying in this open setting tomorrow? >> i think he's going to testify. we're aware of it. we'll go from there. >> we're aware of it, go from there. what kind of relationship -- what is the current state of the relationship between jeff sessions and the president? >> well, i think just if you look at sean spicer sort of public face, not just his words, we're aware of it but also his body language and demeanor is that they're not particularly happy about this, this testimony. and i can tell you that they

sort of view, especially the president, the original sin from jeff sessions recusing himself. they sort of think in the way that some of the clinton people think that bill clinton on the tarmac with loretta lynch led to this cascade of events and the comey press conferences, they think jeff sessions recusing themselve himself, they would not be with the special counsel. so they're not particularly thrilled with him and it's a striking departure, i should add, from a relationship just months ago when sessions on the campaign trail, he was the first senator to come out and endorse trump. he was very loyal. not only did he go into the administration but a lot of his aides and team went into the administration. so it's sort of a stunning fall from grace in just five months for jeff sessions. >> and i guess that's what made me really -- i've heard all the reporting, i've heard it myself

of trump confidants that trump really thinks this was all put in motion, if sessions hadn't recused himself from the russia investigation, then rosenstein hadn't written the memo. if his aides wouldn't have leaned on the memo, then rosenstein wouldn't have been mad and he wouldn't have appointed bob mueller. to pull the string even further, there are far right media folks and at least one lawyer associated with the trump defense team sort of dissing mueller. i wonder if -- i guess my question is, is anything sacred with with this white house or are sessions and comey and mueller viewed as fair game? >> i think we've seen that the president has set the tone that stuff that typically would not be viewed as fair game certainly is. you know, he likes this hand-to-hand combat. the white house has not been so organized on all of their war room strategy, but if there's one message that has been clear, it's the president is a fighter. if he feels he is under attack,

he will punch back, he's a counter puncher and he's best in these one-on-one settings. on the campaign the way he was able to give his rivals these nicknames. when he goes up against one person, that is when they feel he does the best. >> i'm going to bring our panel into this conversation. msnbc senior security analyst, juan zarate, former advisor to rand paul's campaign, elise jordan and frank bruni. frank, we were talking before we came on the air that i think original sin will be on my brain for the whole hour, but if you're talking about sessions testifying, don't you have to rewind the clock to the change in the gop platform, which for the first time ever included language pleasing to the russians, to ease the consequences for the russians for their actions, for their incursions against their neighbors. don't you need to know if sessions was part of those conversations? >> we're so hyperfocused on the early conversations and what

they may or may not have shown to sway the election but there's this whole other track which is how much of it had to do with donald trump's policy and the gop's policy toward russia. they have taken a warm turn toward russia that i think is not based on what's going on in the world or any kind of common sense policy or philosophy. >> you think it's based on common sense? >> no. i listen as carefully as you do and it has not been articulated to me why it makes a great deal of sense for us to forgive putin all of his sins and cozy up to him. so these early meetings, were they about collusion, were they about an effect on american foreign policy that was happening well before an administration even came into being before an election was won. >> elise, this has been my -- i think we're investigating the wrong cover-up for the wrong crime. i think the crime occurred in plain sight. it took place -- i don't know if you've ever sat through a platform fight, i have. it's like watching paint dry but more boring. but in the gop platform, they

changed the language for the first time in the history of the republican party platform process. and think about -- john mccain was the gop nominee in 2008. mitt romney described russia as our greatest geopolitical adversary. trump comes along and changes the only policy language that i think changed was around russia. so isn't it -- aren't we trying to find out whether sessions was involved in meetings with kislyak and other russians around that policy change? >> well, i do think that it all goes back to what went down at the rnc convention in cleveland when that language changed, which no one cares all too much about a platform usually except it was stark in an -- for a campaign that had no concern with policy whatsoever. and you see that his consistency on the issue of russia just only embracing article 5 last week in a press conference and not even when he spoke at nato. and so i think going back to

what happened at the convention, the language change, sessions meets with kislyak. kislyak meets the team. what really went down there. and it comes back to also mike flynn and what has been his role. i'm told by people who were familiar with the trump campaign that mike flynn's role was very big and pretty sweeping and he was throwing around the orders. people responded. so until we really know what actually mike flynn was in control of, there's a huge part of this story that we just are speculating about. >> juan, what is the most generous explanation for the gop platform to change, to include language, a policy change more favorable to russia? >> and i think this view doesn't get articulated much but there's three ways of looking at it. one is to cozy up to russia, to change policies is an anti-obama sort of formulation, especially at the tail end of the obama nrgs. >> why not iran? >> let me get to the other two. the second is if you look at the

issues that the president -- president-elect was talking about most, going after isis. russia is actually a natural ally. >> kinda sorta. >> drug trafficking, issues around afghanistan, even iran, they're an important ally. the obama administration recognized that. in fact secretary kerry visited moscow quite a few times. so they are an important ally, they're a major power, they're a nuclear power, so you've got to deal with them. and third, i think, this is something that isn't well understood. if you view the world not through the lens of major global power dynamics, the challenge of russia, the channel ellenge of but instead you see the challenge of violent islamic extremism, russia is actually a natural ally in that context. >> we're going to debate that on the other side. right now i'm going to bring in chris van hollen of maryland who sits on the appropriations

committee. thank you for being with us. >> it's great to be with you. >> you were supposed to see jeff sessions tomorrow. his date was stolen by your pals on the senate intel committee. >> that's right. >> but i want to know what you need to hear from him in light of jim comey's testimony last week in the open setting and in the closed setting and the ongoing revelations about undisclosed contacts on the part of jeff sessions with russians. >> well, you're right, nicolle, he's going to be a no-show in the appropriations committee, the only cabinet official to do that. but there will be lots of questions for him in the intelligence committee because the last time he was here, he testified and gave false testimony under oath about his contacts with the russians. so i think the conversation will begin there. people will wanting to know about this rumored additional meeting that may have taken place with sessions' participation and the russians. people definitely want to know what comey was referring to when

he said it was inevitable that sessions would have to recuse himself from the russia investigation because it was so problematic. so a whole host of questions around that. whether or not he complied rightly with his recusal when it came to the firing of comey, a whole host of important questions. >> let me ask you, we've been talking around the table about how perhaps the focus is on the wrong cover-up for the wrong crimes. i wondering if it's of interest to you, my understanding of senator sessions' excuse for the omissions is he thought these were contacts with russians that he was having in his capacity as a u.s. senator. but i wonder if it's of interest to know if he was involved in conversations or contacts with the russians around the change in the gop policy platform, to include language more favorable to russia, and if that casts him in a different light, as someone who was going back to cleveland, doing some business for the russians. >> i absolutely heard a little

bit about your conversation. i absolutely think that's a very important part of this conversation. why did you see that change in the platform? and to go to another part of comey's testimony, you know, trump -- president trump asked him about a whole lot of things, but he never asked him about russian interference in our democratic elections. and i think that this is going to be an area of increasing inquiry. right after the testimony comey gave, i was on the floor of the senate pointing out that we need to be imposing sanctions against russia for their interference in our elections, not rolling back the small steps that president obama took, like prohibiting the russians access to their compound on the eastern shore of maryland and other places. i think there's bipartisan support, nicolle, in the coming weeks for sanctions legislation against russia. why is the administration not working as patriots in that

effort to make sure that we don't see that kind of interference. so i hope the conversation will also go in that direction. >> let me follow up. why do you think it is? what do you think the reason for them not going in that direction could possibly be? >> well, it's pretty clear that during the campaign donald trump actively encouraged the russians to hack our elections. it's all there on tape. you talk about plain sight. you're right, the convention platform changes in plain sight. so was candidate trump telling the russians to hack at least into hillary clinton's e-mails. look, this is where senator mccain, senator rubio, republicans, democrats, have been able to find common ground here in the senate. that an attack on our elections is an attack on all of us, democrats, republicans, anybody could be next. they're obviously attacking the elections of our allies, our nato allies, and i think the

fact that this administration, the trump administration has shown such little interest in responding, in fact seems to be bending over backwards to ingratiate themselves with putin and the russians will be the subject of a lot of conversations. it suggests that there was this very, very cozy relationship throughout the campaign. >> senator, i can close my eyes and imagine that i'm back in 2008 when the standard bearer for the republican party talked the way you just did about russia. thank you for spending a little bit of time with us. ashley parker, thank you for being with us, you always make us smarter and better. when we come back, bob mueller assembles his own version of the justice league, while the right, the far right, that is, cries foul. also, a lie is just a lie unless you're under oath an then it's called perjury and the penalty is far more serious. one prominent republican avoids president trump to avoid the perjury trap. up next, what about those tapes? new reporting today on just what

the secret service knows about the existence of white house recordings. >> you seem to be hinting there are recordings -- >> i'm not hinting anything. i'll tell you about it over a very short period of time. okay, do you have a question here? >> when will you tell us about the recordings? >> over a short period of time. >> are there tapes, sir? >> you're going to be very disappointed when you hear the answer, don't worry. dental professionals recommend using an electric toothbrush. for an exceptionally fresh feeling choose philips sonicare diamondclean. hear the difference versus oral b. in a recently published clinical study, philips sonicare diamondclean outperforms oral-b 7000, removing up to 82% more plaque and improving gum health up to 70% more. its sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. from the most recommended sonic toothbrush brand by dental professionals. switch to philips sonicare today. philips sonicare. save when you buy now.

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independent of politics and uncompromising in its mission. bob mueller's experience and character convinced me that he's ready to shoulder these responsibilities. >> this was former president george w. bush nearly 16 years ago when he nominated robert mueller to become the fbi director. last month mueller's appointment to lead the fbi's russia probe won bipartisan praise but today conservatives are calling for his firing. among them newt gingrich. republicans are delusional if they think the special counsel is going to be fair. look who he's hiring. check fec reports. time to rethink. i've got my panel here with me. bob mueller is extraordinary, and i knew there would be a day when i could make our viewers miss george w. bush, but he had the sense of mind -- >> we told you so. >> exactly. to pick bob mueller, to stand by bob mueller. it is, i hate to use the word stunning, but it is stunning to see republicans diss bob

mueller. >> i think so. especially when bob mueller in my opinion is the best solution for the white house and this -- this problem, the problem of the investigation. what you need now is clarity, credibility and closure. that's what you need out of this investigation. bob mueller is the best chance of that. he's independent -- >> why don't they understand that? >> because they see every move as a political machination that's intended to undermine. instead of seeing this as an opportunity to say bob mueller should bring together the best legal minds to figure out if there are any criminal charges, and frankly, if there are not, then to lay this clarity and claim in the cloud shall as the president said, over the administration out of the way. what's so debilitating here is the suspicion around this case. >> he has assembled a dream team. i think we have some of their names up here. kasie hunt, talk a little bit about how weird it is for

democrats, here they are, andrew weissmann, i think he's the head of the doj criminal fraud unit, suggesting maybe they're going to be following the money. michael dreeben, the deputy solicitor general, he's argued over 100 cases in front of the supreme court, real, real heavyweights who i imagine through the course of their careers have been supported by democrats and republicans. how surreal is it for democrats to be the ones defending jim comey who a lot of them think cost them the election and bob mueller who was george bush's naum fee for fbi director. >> the reaction chuck schumer had, the president expected he would be over the moon they just fired the guy they blamed for hillary clinton' loss and was surprised to learn democrats did not necessarily agree this was the best idea. look, i do think that there is a certain sense among democrats that -- i mean you kind of had to get over it a little bit in coming around to see, okay, now all of a sudden jim comey is on

our side. the resentment lingers, i think. >> of course, of course. >> without question. to juan's point, the idea of getting some closure, i mean that's what he now knows the president, a little bit what hillary clinton felt like for most of the campaign. her campaign got to the point where they did not think they were going to be cleared of this. they thought this was going to hang over them until the election. if she won, she was going to win while under fbi investigation. and, you know, they felt like it helped until all of a sudden right at the end it changed it up again. >> and what do you think the sort of conversations are like behind the scenes? i feel like you're good at imagining them. when the president is so clearly the one drawing this out and making it so much worse for himself? i mean he obviously is aware at this point. if he didn't call the hits on mueller, he's aware of them. he spends enough time on twitter to be aware of them and on cable. what do you think the conversations are behind the scenes. >> i think all of this takes its

cue from donald trump. so hating on mueller, i don't find it stunning, i finding it inevitable. that's the prophylactic against anything he finds. that's the way trump wages politics these days. you discredit anybody who may have something bad to say about you and thus discredit what they're saying. this is utterly of a piece with calling anything he doesn't like fake news and referring to us as the fake news media. if you nullify the messenger, you inoculate yourself against the message. >> what's the risk with mueller, who's obviously going to have a lot of democrats an republicans remembering -- he ran the fbi after 9/11 when the fbi fixed itself and addressed its failure to connect the dots. he saved lives, he kept this country safe. >> this is donald trump's reflex and thus become the reflex of so many people around him and certainly the reflex of the far right. >> his core supporters seem to believe what he says over what anybody else says, no matter what.

so i think that will be the main question here. if you have this credible independent voice, does it overcome that? i'm skeptical it will. >> ken, let me give you the last word here. what impact if any is there on mueller and mueller's team? >> what newt gingrich was referring to in that tweet was apparently some of these folks have given money to democrats as well as republicans over the years. i just find that distressing that our politics have become so tribal that a contribution to a democrat suggests that you can't be objective. these are, as you said, serious legal minds, well regarded people. the other thing about bob mueller is that pete williams had some reporting a few days ago that suggests that bob mueller will be an activist manager of this investigation. there are two ways to go with this. you could be sort of a ceo as a special counsel, but in fact bob mueller will manage this thing. he's getting daily briefings. he may sit in on interviews. he's going to run this investigation like a u.s. attorney would run a grand jury investigation in a federal district, nicolle.

>> thank you, ken dilanian. still ahead, remember that line from the movie jerry maguire, help me help you. some republicans are pleading with donald trump to stop shooting himself in the foot with his tweets and his mouth. garfunkel (instrumental) [ snoring ] [ deep sleep snoring ] the all-new volkswagen atlas. seats seven, sleeps six. life's as big as you make it.

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but here's what's so frustrating for republicans like me. you may be the first president in history to go down because you can't stop inappropriately talking about an investigation that if you just were quiet would clear you. it's frustrating for me to want to help a man who i think will do big things, no other republican would do, like immigration. >> lindsay needs a hug. some republicans are boiling over, frustrated with president trump's constant barrage of twitter attacks and distractions over the russia investigation. ari fleischer warning that trump has not been vindicated, suggesting that he should stop

talking. quote, you're heading into a giant perjury trap, he warned. elise, what is life like for republicans in the time of trump? >> he is -- donald trump has made it impossible for republicans to go and stake their credibility when they -- defending him in defense of donald trump. he undercuts them constantly. they just can't safely go out and state facts in support of donald trump without knowing that the next day he's going to tweet or, you know, say something that is -- that contradicts them immediately. so he really is his own worst enemy. it's an incredibly frustrating time for all these republicans who were so excited about having the majority, but they can't get anything done because they have a president who wants to shoot himself in the foot every time he goes out. >> yeah, and i mean i guess to tie the string to hallie jackson, who's joining us from the nbc lawn, she's our chief white house correspondent, he does the same thing to his own staff. >> absolutely, nicolle. listen, i think that there is a difference between -- when you talk about the republican party in general, what you sometimes

hear publicly versus what you hear privately with this a little bit of a disconnect between the unforced errors, as elise is talking about when it comes to the president. you look at, for example, just to take one example, what he says on twitter. when you look at just the reporting of it, right, what he says is literally now being used against him in a court of law. his actual own words are being used against him, specifically when it comes to what was one of his presidential priorities. the thing he talked about again and again, this executive order restricting travel into this country. he wanted to be the immigration president. this is one of the first things that he signed. and now you're seeing the judge in these cases, the judges signing these rulings that talk about his tweets and talk about those tweets being official statements. it's something that sean spicer, the press secretary here, deflected when i asked him about it earlier at that press broefibroe briefing, whether the president is undermine his own agenda on twitter. no answer from that question

from the press secretary who instead talked more broadly about how the administration feels about the travel ban and the idea they will ultimately prevail, they think. >> hallie, any sense from the white house staff how they're approaching tomorrow's hearing with attorney general sessions? >> it's going to be a big moment. it's not going to be as big at least from the sense we are getting from the reporting side as what happened on thursday when it came to james comey. this is something i imagine you'll see a lot of discussion kicked over to the doj, to the outside counsel, marc kasowitz. i imagine that the rnc. as we saw today, actually, we'll be out in what folks there like to call supporting and defending the president. the rnc getting involved when it came to that emoluments lawsuit. today he was trying to get out surrogates during the comey testimony. i wouldn't be surprised if we saw more of that. >> one more question before we let you go, hallie. the tapegate scandal, which is my favorite scandal so far, is over of the we now know from the secret service that there was no

recording device in the white house or on the white house grounds. any comment from the white house on that? it seemed to have been sort of unfolded and revealed before the president was ready to make his big announcement. >> no comment yet but when we get something, i will run right back here and let you know. >> thank you for making time for us. >> thank you. up next, another person fired by president trump, former u.s. attorney preet and his comments revealing a potential pattern. it's fine.

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i'm about to pop a cap of "mmm fresh" in that washer with unstopables in-wash scent boosters by downy. because this scent lasts up to 12 weeks, which is longer than any relationship i've ever been in. freshness for weeks! when i've been reading the stories about how the president has been contacting jim comey over time, it felt a little bit like deja vu. the number of times president obama called me in seven and a half years was zero. the number of times i'd expect to be called by the president of the united states would be zero. there has to be an arm's-length

relationship. it appeared to be that he was trying to cultivate some kind of relationship. >> preet bharara says part of james comey's testimony hit close to home, suggesting trump may have made a habit of putting pressure on federal officials who were investigating him. joining us now on set is msnbc contributor jonathan capehart, an opinion writer at "the washington post." >> thanks for having me. i brought scones. >> i love scones. what ensued after that appearance was a good old-fashioned twitter brawl between mark coralo who's now the spokesperson for the president's personal attorney, but does he raise a fair question about the president's pattern for meddling with investigators who are supposed to be independent or is it fair for any president to replace any political appointees? >> both. but when you have an investigation into, let's see, russian meddling in the

election, potential collusion of the president's campaign with russians, and then the president's actions once he became president in terms of firing the fbi director, firing preet bharara here in new york, yeah. what the former u.s. attorney has to say is credible. it's something that people should pay attention to, and especially coming after the testimony from james comey. there is a pattern here. and we can't ignore the pattern. that being said, just to give a little credit to the president's personal spokesperson, yeah, the president is within his right to hire and fire whoever he wants. but what we're seeing with this president who's not -- who's not a political person, who doesn't come from politics, there are customs and there are things that he couldn't care less about and is trampling over. it's not just a problem for his white house, it's a problem for our democracy. >> we're going to put the tweets

up on the screen so our viewers can enjoy them as much as i did in the early morning hours. >> i think between what mr. bharara had to say over the weekend, the way jim comey came out and said, look, i was trying to set the stage for a special prosecutor, it's pretty clear to clear to me there's some concern and angst from a group that considers themselves to be a co-equal branch of government. when you combine what he's said about judges, the way he's approached the courts, there is a pattern that very clearly has people who have built their living as that branch of government, they have got their back up. >> i was on the "today" show with corey lewandowski on friday and he just flat-out said james comey is part of the deep state. do you think this war on the deep state -- no, seriously. you're a friend or colleague of the new cia director. is there fear and anxiety that all of these lifelong professionals are going to be maligned and that trump and his spokes people -- i mean mark

corralo is a straight fighter. most people think he's a good guy to have in their corner. >> i try to avoid extremes. i think it's a problem to talk about any form of dissent simply as part of a deep state. we talk about deep states when we talk about autocratic regimes and ensconced totalitarian regimes. that's not what we're talking about here. we're talking about professionals, career prosecutors. i started as a prosecutor at the department of justice. i know jim comey. i learned from him when he was deputy attorney general. these are real professionals. and i think we run the risk if we besmirch and try to kill the credibility of these people, we really do begin to confuse matters and not only hurt their credibility but undermine the credibility of the institutions themselves. i think that's the problem. >> do you think jim comey is part of the deep state? >> no, of course not. jim comey was a decorated man of integrity who was not only recognized as such by former president bush but also president obama, was serving

credibly. you know, you can argue that he made mistakes, no doubt, in the context of the clinton matter as well as in terms of leaking. maybe problematic and certainly that's worth looking at. but to claim he's part of a deep state trying to undermine the president is a real problem. >> those are bannon's words, the deep state construction. that was what steve bannon was talking about at cpac and said, look, this is what we are fighting against. and it is part of this broader pattern, not just the comments about the judiciary, but even failing to appoint people to all of these government jobs, leaving it all open like this. >> deep state is a companion of fake news. this is the same exact pattern. when you don't like what is going on or the message someone is delivering, you appoint a boogie man. you say deep state and suddenly all motives are no longer applicable, no one is krecredib. this is a way of not having an argument.

this is a way of having people believe in an alternative set of facts and taking away objective truth. this comes back to that we're living in an era, we're living with an administration that wants you to believe there's no such thing as an undisputed body of facts or as any one truthful narrative, it's all in the eye of the beholder. >> and it used to be a cliche or viewed as trite to say you're entitled to your own opinion but not your own set of facts. >> listening to what juan just said, i wish more republicans, elected republicans on the hill would say exactly what you just said. you do not have to agree with everything that james comey says, but you don't have to besmirch his professionalism, his career and the fact that he is not a partisan, he is a professional and what he saw happening was something that so offended him as an american, as a law enforcement official, as someone who reveres the law above all else, i wish more people would just step out there and say this, because it's

ruining that administration. it's ruining the republican party. >> let me ask you an put you on the spot then because you're in the circle. but you are viewed as a peer of some of the -- really most respected members of this administration's national security team. i wonder if you think that they respect and honor bob mueller and think that he goes about his mission with pure motive and intent? >> i think of course they do. >> like h.r. mcmaster? >> absolutely. i think the professionals know the work bob mueller has done over a lifetime, not just the last 12 years as the fbi director but as a u.s. attorney, as a line attorney, as a man of deep faith in sort of institutions and the integrity of being a prosecutor. i think everyone knows that and respects it. people within the department and at the fbi. >> we're just hitting pause. when we come back, we're going to put kasie on the spot about her new reporting about jared kushner. we've done well in life, with help from our advisor, we made it through many market swings.

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attorney general jeff sessions will testify tomorrow in front of the senate intel committee at 2:30. our special coverage begins at 2:00 p.m. you have some more reporting on jared kushner and the soonest we'll see him on capitol hill. >> this has been a thing of consternation because he's said, hey, i will make myself available, but they've found that to be more difficult than they anticipated. the committee knows what they

want from him now, and they've sent a letter to his attorney saying, we would appreciate it if you showed up on this date to do this thing. but what it says is if he doesn't, they will compel him to do it. i think they're reaching the next phase as to how they want to get information out of kushner. it sounds like his lawyers are not ready for that at this point. >> it's my understanding he has top flight lawyers and their nras described loosely that get after the facts. it's hard to under stastate hise in the white house. not just in the white house but the world. i understand him to be the foreign person for many governments. what are the stakes for jared kushner and for this white house? >> certainly you see him at the right hand of the president at all these foreign presidents. if you ever have to wonder who is at play in materials of foreign polic-- terms of foreig

policy, see who is sitting next to him. he has been given the role of foreign peace. i don't want an adviser like that, someone so close to the president, so trusted, to be weakened. you want that person to be effective, to be able to be a key, and to not be distracted. if he's distracted because he's personally potentially liable, but now he has tone gau engage battle of what he can reveal or not because he's key to the president of the united states. and given his role on foreign policy issues, you don't want him in that position. >> if you don't want him to be distracted, maybe you shouldn't set a battle in russia that takes place in the russian embassy. he keeps such a low profile. people haven't heard him speak so he isn't the target of so much partisan sniping. isn't he in the middle of every

question about russia? >> he's the hub. he's right snamack in the middl of it. listening to kacie talk about her reporting, and the question that comes to my mind that will remain if it happens, when it happens, will the presidential l president allow him to testify if he's so close to him. couldn't the president claim protective privilege? i don't want this person so close to me testifying and nodding his head. >> it's not as if he's director of the fbi or an ex-director. >> that's right. we may never hear jared's voice if the president invokes that. >> i'm just so fascinated by the jared kushner story. to me the biggest quote the last five days was paul ryan saying the president is new to this. >> that's their defense. >> my point is if donald trump is new to this, that's doubly so

for jared kushner. if you look at him and ivanka, they thought they were going on this wild, glorious ride. >> you called it and it shows up. here it is. >> it is hard, and there is a level of viciousness that i was not expecting. i was not expecting the intensity of this experience, but this isn't supposed to be easy. my father and this administration intends to be transformative, and we want to do big, bold things, and we're looking to change the status quo. >> how did she not expect this? did she miss the entire obama administration? did she miss the administration before it? >> does she not follow her father on twitter? >> heifer fathr father is gettis treatment? he's setting the tone here. >> and nicolle, you've worked in

many administrations. they realize there is nothing in the world that can prepare you for it. if you're a family member in this position, often they are the most affected. >> i think what is offensive to people, i actually think ivanka is the sort of rare person in the trump orbit who everyone wants to like. everyone wants to project on to her the hopes that the president can be more moderate, that the president himself can be less vicious, that he can be managed. she has some wins and some losses in that vein, but i think to separate herself out from her father's role in the viciousness is what's so offputting about this clip. >> what's also offensive about ivanka and jared, too, they are both constantly whispering to the outside. we're here to keep them under control. we're going to moderate him, aren't you so grateful for us. they helped put him there. it's like throwing some glass on the ground and saying, i would like some credit for sweeping it up. we have one more break but we will all be back on the other

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we have a phenomenal team of people, a great group of talent, and we are really now seeing the early fruits of their labor. >> mr. president, what an incredible honor -- >> that was donald trump today in his first ever cabinet meeting. it's a little late to get those underway, but i understand. what was extraordinary, though, is what happened next. he went around the table, kasie hunt, and everyone heaped praise upon the leader. >> nicolle, can i just tell you

what an incredible honor it is to be with you? >> who is the actor in ""the godfather"" rehearsing what he'll say to him when he meets luke abbracci? then they pledge loyalty to those who brought them there. >> you have time for heaping praise on me. i want to thank our panel. that does it for this hour. i'm nicolle wallace. "mtp daily" starts now. katy tur is in for chuck todd. hi, katy. >> hi, nicolle. the president's attorney general agrees to go on the record in an open hearing of the senate intel investigation on russia. so did the president sign off on the public testimony? >> i think he's going to testify. we're aware of it and we'll go from there. plus, why two attorneys general are suing the president over his business ties. >> we