in honor of steve scalise, you're going to see a lot of lsu hats. that's his alma mater. when you see somebody wearing an alabama shirt and an lsu hat, you know this isn't a regular game. >> chris, thank you very much. enjoy the game. thank you for watching. see you back here tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. is the veep in deep? let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. tonight, there are new indications the trump/russia probe could reach deeper into the white house. vice president mike pence has retained outside counsel now to represent him for the course of the investigation. it comes as nbc news today confirmed "the washington post" scoop that president trump is under criminal investigation by the special counsel, robert mueller, for possible obstruction of justice. three of the country's top intelligence officials have now

agreed to speak to investigators, led by special counsel mueller. director of national intelligence dan coats, direct over of the nsa mike rogers, and his former deputy richard ledgett. while coats and rogers refused to say publicly whether the president asked them to influence the investigation, "the wall street journal" rep t reports ledgett drafted a memo, quote, while mr. ledgett was still in office, he wrote a memo documenting a phone call that mr. rogers had with mr. trump. during that call the president questioned the veracity of the intelligence community's judgment that russia had interfered with the election and tried to persuade mr. rogers to say there was no evidence of collusion between his campaign and russian officials. well, this morning the president responded to the latest reports with a personal attack on mueller's investigators. quote, you are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in american political history led by some very bad and conflicted people. trump also claimed without evidence that the probe into collusion is over. they made up a phony collusion

with the russian story and found zero proof, so now they go for obstruction of justice on the phony story. nice. that's trump in tweet. joining me now are three national security reporters, charlie savage, adam entous and shane harris. shane, you've got the story which follows up on what we had last night, that the special counsel is looking at the president for obstruction of justice. my question is how do you have to add to that? >> what you have now is you have the president both trying to convince director rogers of the nsa to come out and shoot down these issues of collusion, but also privately still continuing to doubt the very intelligence that the nsa collected that led to the conclusion that russia interfered in the election. we've seen trump publicly talk about the fact he thinks they're nothing to russia, but to know that he's now saying this privately and continuing to argue with one of his intelligence chiefs about that, i think really reveals the degree to which this has

completely gotten under his skin. and he really wants to try and shoot down the fundamental underpinnings of this whole case. if there's nothing to russia hacking, how can there be any possibility of me colluding or me obstructing a russia probe? so really going after sort of the core of that piece. and i think the people we talked to were surprised that privately he is continuing to maintain this idea that russia might not have actually been involved in the meddling. >> let's talk about what's now in play in terms of what we believe to be true, that trump went to comey while he was still fbi director and said, kill the flynn investigation. trump went to coats and said the same thing, kill the flynn investigation. and as you just said, trump went to rogers, the nsa director, and told him to clear him with any involvement with collusion. now, when is the moment of reckoning coming, charlie? start with this because if he has agreed to give sworn testimony to mueller, isn't this going to put him in a box where he has to now say, all this is not true as i've been saying it's not true, under oath, or

admitting that he's taken part in a way that looks like, to the average person, like obstruction? >> i mean you raise a binary where he has two choices about what to say under oath. i would not be shocked at all that that doesn't happen. i'm sure his lawyers were cringing when that came out of his mouth. that can't be anything that they advised him to do for exactly the reason you're identifying. there's been a long history of mr. trump saying, oh, this will happen soon, believe me. >> let me ask you, then, one of the two alternatives. there's probably many in his head, but the other alternative is to admit the truth as the other people have said so, and admit he went to comey to clear flynn. he went to coats to clear flynn, and he went to rogers to clear himself. is he going to admit all that and not have that add up to obstruction of justice? how does he go clean at this point? is it too late to go clean? >> his story, of course, is i didn't tell comey to clear flynn. i just said -- i didn't say

those words at all. that's what his spokesmen have said. the more charitable thing is he did say those things but he didn't mean it as an order. >> lawyers know how to ask the right questions and get the answer. they're not going to let him slip by. >> you know, the bottom line is that things are getting closer now. we now have vice president pence getting a lawyer of his own. >> why did he do that? >> because the special counsel wants to talk to him, and you'd be foolish to talk to a prosecutor without a lawyer by your side. but that's only going to make all these other white house staffers who have been told, oh, you don't need a lawyer think, maybe i do. >> adam, he tells the regular young people over there, a lot of them younger than the president by a lot, don't worry. you don't have to lawyer up. and then the vice president lawyers up. he's worried. >> well, i mean we don't -- frankly, i don't really see quite where pence fits into this. >> he does. somebody told him to lawyer up. >> when we look at flynn, how much did he know --

>> was he in the room? >> when -- >> when anything happened, all these conversations? where was pence. >> my impression really is that pence is not really a factor here in these discussions. >> i heard today that one of the producers here said that it's one thing to say you weren't part of a campaign event because you probably weren't. but it's very hard to avoid any involvement in something that happened in the west wing while you're there. you're floating around somewhere. you know what's going on, right? >> he might be a fact witness to conversations. there's the whole issue of what did flynn tell you about his conversations with the russians. charlie is right. if the special counsel is going to speak to you, you'd be crazy not to have a lawyer. so we don't want to overread the fact that he's lawyering up, but this shows you the special counsel clearly is going to go right to the top of people he's going to question. of course trump has volunteered to give testimony to him under oath. >> lawyers aren't free. you don't do it for fun. the president was busy on twitter this afternoon again taking shots at his former democratic rival, hillary clinton. quote, this is trump today, why is that hillary clinton's family

and dems dealings with russia are not looked at but my non-dealings are. crooked hillary destroyed phones with a hamter, bleached e-mails and had her husband meet with the attorney general days before she was cleared, and they talk about obstruction. there's so many leaps here. did anybody believe sanely that in front of all the cameras, so everybody sees you talking to her, loretta lynch, it makes no sense. >> part of what's happening here is trump is throwing out shiny objects here and there to sort of distract from the main investigative thrust of what's happening. that tweet is part of it. the tweet you read earlier about how mueller's staff are bad people, conflicted people, is really interesting. i mean we are only a couple weeks into this investigation, and he's already preemptively trying to nuke it as though these are all biased people. >> wasn't he about to interview or did some people in the white house actually interview bob

mueller for fbi director, to bring him back? >> npi reported that. >> joining the conversation right now from the white house is kristen welker. kristen, what do you make of this pence lawyering up here now? it seems like everybody is going to battle stations. >> reporter: well, that's right. i think he will be one of a number of top staffers who is going to lawyer up. look, he obtained a lawyer by the name of richard cullen, someone who is described as being a criminal federal defense attorney, someone who has a lot of history in this realm. he's no stranger to washington and no stranger to these types of cases. but it underscores, i think, the gravity of this issue for everyone in this white house. and, again, chris, i think that vice president mike pence is going to be one of a number of people who are close to the president who are going to be looking to outside counsel as they try to weather this storm. i heard your conversation about the president's tweets, trying to redirect the conversation to his former rival, hillary

clinton. it was a stunning strategy for a couple of different reasons. one, his spokespeople will not talk about the russia probe. they refer all questions to the russia probe to the president's outside counsel, and we tried over and over again today during the gaggle with sarah huckabee sanders. but the fact that he's trying to redirect toward hillary clinton, remember, the fbi determined there was no wrongdoing. so in addition to everything that you all were just talking about, the bottom line is he's talking about something and trying to redirect the conversation in a way that just isn't accurate. it's something that riles up his base, chris. >> yeah, i can see that. it's good deflection. the other day, trump seemed to be very happy that he wasn't the target of an fbi investigation under comey. he said three times he was told that, so he's vindicated there. now he is according to all the press accounts. in account fa, every media including our own at nbc news now says he is in fact being looked at for obstruction of justice by the special counsel. didn't that sort of change the

mood there? he's once again in the spotlight, in the crosshairs. >> reporter: oh, there's no doubt. a cloud has been cast over this entire white house, over this entire administration. you can see it on the faces of the people who work here. this is a really big deal. they understand that. he understands that. important to point out neither he nor his outside counsel have disputed the fact that he's under investigation. he was asked a direct question about that today by a reporter. he refused to answer that direct question and again tried to redirect. but, chris, think about it. they have this agenda that they want to be focused on right now. up on deck is health care. they want to see something get passed through the senate. and this makes it a whole lot tougher. it makes it tougher for him to bring people together around his agenda when he's constantly mired in this and feeling as though he has to be on defense. by the way, republicans feeling as though they have to figure out how they're going to defend him or if they're going to defend him, chris. >> well, i guess a couple

questions come to mind here. first of all, in the white house, the big question to me is this. either he's guilty of something and believes he's guilty of something in terms of playing footsie with the russians last year during the election, in other words in some way encouraging them to intervene in our election or doing something for them or promising something to them or whatever in any way that makes him a fifth columnist to put it bluntly. and the other possibility he doesn't understand that every step he's been taking in his self-defense puts him further into the spot of a possible criminalization, that he keeps doing things to protect himself that have become the basis for an obstruction of justice charge against him in the congress. which is it? do the people in the white house you talk to think he's guilty of something but they don't know what it is, think he's innocent and think he's just being unfairly attacked, that he's a little bit paranoid? what's the combination of motives for his behavior? >> reporter: well, honestly officials here have gone into lockdown when it comes to the russia probe. they won't talk about it on

background. they won't talk about it off the record. i think they're concerned about saying the wrong thing, potentially adding to the president's legal troubles, chris. but i think it's worth remembering even if robert mueller does determine that there was obstruction of justice, of course a president can't be indicted. so it's up to congress. it's up to the house of representatives to impeach him. this is an all-republican congress. so the politics of this get very tricky. it's worth noting that the president has been in office for 146 days. he is under criminal investigation earlier than any other president in modern history, earlier than nixon, earlier than clinton. they both had their issues in their second terms. so this is really remarkable, chris, and it marks a real shift in this russia probe. >> thank you, kristen. let's get back to other people here. thank you, kristen. i think the question looms here. a straight reporters, you guys have to figure out what to print each night. but when you step back from it, can you sense enough evidence there to believe the guy is

guilty of some sort of involvement with the russians, or is it easier to see his obstructive behavior? >> based on what we know now, i have not seen anything yet that suggests there was collusion with the russians. there's this weirdness that people keep forgetting to disclose meetings, but then what was that meeting? it was at a public reception somewhere. it doesn't sound like a spycraft opportunity. >> you include in that -- you think kushner didn't have some stupid conversation with a russian? he's the one i'm thinking about, the one who is least prepared for the position. >> that's already after the election. so the whole -- i mean the quid pro quo people think about is you hack the e-mails and put them out, and we'll fix the plank on ukraine or something like that. that's all much earlier than all of that. the assembly of evidence in the obstruction of justice, especially not about russia per se but about michael flynn specifically, that seems to be where there's a lot to talk about. it's not just this vague, hazy, abstract notion.

>> it's also more present. it's now. it's happening now. >> yeah. >> if there is obstruction. we're seeing pieces of it. >> i find it almost impossible to tell where this is going frankly. if you asked me three months ago when it was flynn, when it was sessions, they all felt like just self-inflicted wounds. we were calling them out for lies, and the result was either flynn getting fired or recusal. you know, i had no idea whether that was connected to any broader, you know, collaboration, coordination at all. you know, where this goes -- >> thanks to you guys, we're getting a lot of dots on the screen, and the dots all show a president who will not let things go their natural course. he has to interfere with this investigation. he has to call people up and say, clear me of this. get this case killed with flynn, blah, blah, blah. he's constantly reaching out to try to find a way to stop what he thinks is a locomotive coming at him. >> this is the way he's always operated. we know this from his days in new york. he's 146 days in. by now he knows there's another strategy he could be taking.

i'm sure people if they haven't advised him to do it, to just stay quiet, he's probably absorbed that, he's not doing that because he believes, i think, he can beat this. this is how he got elected was by coming after people who doubted him, by trying to change the narrative, by hitting back faster and harder than he was hit. i have to suspect if he thinks it worked for me getting into the white house, what am i going to do? change course now? >> very suspicious polling, but let's give it a crack again. despite president trump's tweets this morning dismissing the question of obstruction of justice in the russian probe, a clear majority of americans now say they think he tried to interfere with the investigation. according to a new associated press poll, 61% of americans say trump tried to impede or obstruct the investigation. that's six in ten of course. 37% say he didn't. i love these numbers because they're very similar in every question. on the question of potential collusion, 68% of americans say they're concerned that trump or his associates actually had inappropriate ties to russia while 30% say they're not concerned. i keep looking at those 30%, 37%. that's the trump base, right?

no matter what you ask about, if it's bad or it sounds bad, they're going to say no way. >> and the important number here is probably 2018. how is this going to play in the midterms? if the midterms become a referendum on whether the people think the president obstructed justice, this republican in congress right now is not going to impeach this president, i don't think. >> there aren't many purple seats. it's very hard to find which seats are going to switch, right? >> true. i just want to throw one more thing on the table based on what kristen was saying earlier about how this is a distraction. they want to get health care done. >> a lot of people think they want this distraction so they can sneak that health care bill through. >> usually you think about the scandal getting in the way of the agenda. remember they're crafting a bill in the senate, not going through committee. no one has been allowed to read it. we're not talking about that really strange thing because we're talking about russia. >> we have news. the washington report is reporting tonight that special counsel robert mueller is investigating the finances and business dealings of -- i mentioned him a moment ago -- jared kushner, president trump's son-in-law and adviser as part

of the probe into russia's interference in the 2016 presidential election. adam entous, you're one of the reporters on that breaking story. now you have to tell us. so i've always thought kushner was the one least educated in politics and government, the one givest -- given the widest portfolio by his father-in-law. >> he's having a lot of meetings. there's nobody else in the meetings. you know, there's no note taker. it's not through kind of the normal process after his first meeting with kislyak where you had flynn sitting in on that meeting. after that, things are -- >> the russians know everything he did, know everything he said. >> he didn't -- as far as we know, he never actually followed through on using their comes gear at the embassy. bottom line is the fbi, as they initially started looking at these meetings, they also were looking, in addition to the other things, at possible criminal activity on his part. >> what about commingling of politics and money? is that what you're looking at

there? >> i think that is something the fbi would be very interested in. >> at the same meeting you're talking about the good of the america and you're talking about the trump business. >> you've also got to look from the perspective of the countries that are dealing with jared. they see in jared, in that commingling of family business if you will, where the presidency and business, in their mind, become commingled. they would be dealing with jared like they would be dealing with, you know, a leader in africa, you know, who also controls monopolies in the country. they would view it that way. i think it is natural for the russians and other governments, the chinese, to look at somebody like jared. they see something, he's a prince ling. it's familiar for them. the idea that we would maybe make offers to try and induce policy changes. >> that's what they call them in china, prince lings? i've been reading and hearing about the fact that after years of dealing with the russians to finance his real estate, he may

have money responsibilities back to them. gamblers invested in him, money that he may owe back to him. all these entangled relationships are out there. >> it's important for people to realize this is very preliminary. this may result in nothing. you know, that's something to keep in mind. the guy is obviously innocent until something changes. >> we keep doing this. thank you, charlie savage, adam entous, and shane harris. congratulations. latest news. coming up, republicans are starting to split over trump's tweets talking about the russian investigation. there's still an amen chorus behind him but other republicans say the investigation isn't a witch hunt as trump keeps calling it, that robert mueller is a man of integrity and trump should stay off the twitter. plus the congressional baseball game for charity is going on tonight despite yesterday's attack. the game is just moments away from starting. moments ago, the players came together in the infield for a prayer and a moment of silence. there they are. we'll get the latest from nationals park. that's where the nationals play

and where the republicans and democrats are playing each other tonight. remember, when donald trump warned that if hillary clinton were elected, the country would be engulfed by endless investigations, guess what? we'll revisit that now that robert mueller is looking at whether trump obstructed justice. finally let me finish tonight with trump watch. there's parts of it he ought to watch himself. this is "hardball," where the action is. local activities listed on our app. or that you could book them right from your phone. a few weeks ago, you still didn't know if you were gonna go. now the only thing you don't know, is why it took you so long to come here. expedia. everything in one place, so you can travel the world better. you on a perfect car,rch then smash it into a tree. your insurance company raises your rates... maybe you should've done more research on them. for drivers with accident forgiveness,

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we may have our differences, but we do well in times like these to remember that everyone who serves in our nation's capital is here because, above all, they love our country. we can all agree that we are blessed to be americans. >> yesterday president trump as you saw there called on washington to come together, and today partisan rancor returned. trump took to twitter, attacking very bad and conflicted people. his close ally and confidant newt gingrich joined in the social media assault attacking robert mueller by name. the former house speaker tore into the former fbi director, tweeting, mueller is now clearly the tip of the deep state. he's a spear aimed at destroying or at minimum undermining and

crippling the trump presidency. but not every republican agrees. let's watch. >> i would argue that the president has unleashed and has partially to blame for demons that have been unleashed. >> is it a witch hunt? >> don't believe that. the president is going to have to go through this unfortunately because it's going to take some time and be a distraction in some ways. but ultimately i think at the back end of this, he and the country will be better served for it. >> i would like to see the president stay off twitter. >> it's notes a witch hunt, no. i think he's got a job to do. we all understand that. >> for more i'm joined by robert costa, jennifer rubin, opinion writer and author of the "washington post" right turn blog, and matt schlapp. why don't we start with you, matt. what do you make of the following things? we picked up some information. you may challenge it as is your wont, but apparently trump went

to comey at one point and said, kill the flynn investigation. he's my pal, a good guy, glblah blah, blah. trump also went to coats and same the same thing. he also went to mike rogers, head of the nsa according to rogers' former deputy and said kill this talk about this collusion in the campaign. so we have a lot of evidence of the president going out and trying to stop the investigators, trying to chill them, whatever, charm them. maybe that's your term. but why would he be doing all this, and how do you defend it at least as evidence that this guy wasn't going to let an investigation take its course, that he had to keep putting his finger in the eye of somebody to stop it? >> well, two things there. i would say the first thing is that i think erybody i -- certainly anybody who supports donald trump and republicans are concerned aboutt they read, and they're concerned of the fact that sometimes it's been hyped. i read for weeks and watched television where the impression was donald trump was under

investigation, and then it took this whole public foray for jim comey to reveal he wasn't understand investigation. now we've learned perhaps he's back under investigation. one of your reporters just said criminal investigation. so i've gotten to the point where i would just like to know directly from the counsel when he makes it public, what it is they're doing. that's when i will know that it's happening. up to now, there's either been misreporting, or there's been some very good reporting where they've gotten leaks. i don't know which one it is. but i know the second piece of this. all the lawyers i've talked to, including the lawyers i talked to in the white house counsel's office during the bush 43 administration, tell me that they don't see obstruction of justice here, and we're throwing around that term very casually. >> jennifer? i keep reading these stories and they have a pattern to them. the president will not let this thing go on his own. you can argue no story is perfect. in fact, all of them are not perfect. but you put together a pattern

and nobody is really challenging the fact that the president would do something like this because if it comes out he did, he's going to say, yeah, i knew he was capable of it. why is this -- to me, he's either guilty and therefore covering up, or he has some sort of condition in him that says, these people are out to get me. i'm going to do everything i can to stop them even if they don't have anything on me. >> it may be some of both. it may not be the russian collusion. it may be the financial issues. >> what do you mean? >> mueller has brought on three or four top prosecutors. several of them have specialized in financial crimes, bribery, money laundering. why are they in there? we don't know. whatever is bothering trump may not have to do directly with the election and collusion. >> it may not have to do with trump. it may have to do with manafort. >> and it may have to do with jared. >> i think it has to do with jared because he's been given a tremendous license by his father-in-law to take on foreign policy. he may well have talked himself into something and the russians

have all this on tape somewhere, and that's what the father in law is worried about. >> absolutely. and beyond that, i think you have somebody who has no conception that he's even breaking the law. it's not an excuse. >> he doesn't know by now? >> he just blunders around. he got himself a joker lawyer from new york who doesn't know what the heck he's doing. he should get himself a real lawyer. >> kasowitz has now got himself a spokesman. so now the reporters in the white house like kristen welker is not permitted to ask about the russian probe at the white house because you can't have anybody ask these questions because they must go to kasowitz's flak. >> based on my reporting, kasowitz is highly influential in the west wing. people describe him as a mirror to the president's personality. he does have a spokesman, this combative veteran republican strategist. and you're right. within the west wing, there was talk of having this war room to really -- >> what happened to the war room? >> disappeared.

the president, kushner, bannon, priebus decided to farm out a lot of these questions because they know the republican agenda on capitol hill is so stalled, if they're not focused on that and consumed by russia, they'll never get anything done. >> in terms of p.r., i'll give this back to matt. you can argue that's what clinton did when he had fabiani take all the monica questions, let me ask you about trump. do you think he's innocent of all charges? do you believe he had nothing to do with the russians during the campaign? you, personally, matt schlapp. >> let me try to answer. i think he is not guilty of any of these charges, and i think the reason for that is -- [ overlapping voices ] >> was he involved with any -- no. i just want a simple answer. did he have communication with the russians in response to their efforts to help him win? >> no, because -- [ overlapping voices ] >> nothing illegal or

inappropriate because, chris, think about it. they didn't need the help of this presidential campaign to figure out what to do if they wanted to do something. what they did was rudimentary and they didn't need anybody to help them do it. i'm not sure this presidential campaign, of which i supported -- i'm glad he won, but it wasn't exactly the most cutting edge campaign we've ever seen. the idea that the russians would go to the trump campaign to figure out how to meddle with the election is really absurd on its face and not one leaked story about any evidence of any wrongdoing -- >> so all these conversations with lavrov and kislyak and all this involvement with kushner chatting with these guys and of course sessions chatting with them and of course manafort dealing with them and carter page -- all those communications, all that stuff was just, what, irrelevant, incidental, or what? you say it has no meaning. hold on, matt. we're going to nationals park. the injured capitol hill policeman is about to throw out the first ceremonial pitch. let's watch. [ cheers and applause ]

>> that wasn't a bad pitch for a guy that's been shot. that's pretty good. anyway, he wasn't shot. it's so fascinating the way they've been taking this. you know what i like? i like the fact that the republicans didn't jump on the fact this was bernie's guy if you will, that he was a volunteer in the bernie campaign because i can see both sides capable of saying, oh, this just proves our argument. these guys are violent haters of america. >> right. you've seen some outside people. you really haven't seen elected officials. i was actually pretty impressed with just about everybody yesterday. they were on their good behavior. i think they understand at some level -- >> newt gingrich -- >> i think mostly, you know, they realize that it's a moment for them to look, you know, semi-responsible.

>> there he is with the crutches going off the field. that was wonderful. anyway, thank you. robert costa, you know so much. jennifer, you think so much. and thank you, matt. good night in the barrel tonight. you did the honors, and thank you. up next, we're going to go out to nationals park where the congressional baseball game for charity is about to get under way. we'll get a live report next. this is "hardball," where the action is. ing beverages with less sugar or no sugar at all, smaller portion sizes, clear calorie labels, and signs reminding everyone to think balance before choosing their beverages. we know you care about reducing the sugar in your family's diet, and we're working to support your efforts. more beverage choices. aller portions. balanceus.org. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why?

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welcome back to "hardball." the congressional baseball game is about to get under way one day after yesterday's horrific shooting during the republicans' practice out in virginia. inside nationals park there it is right now. right now we're looking at a prerecorded message from president trump ahead of the start of the game. let's watch. >> i want to thank members of congress, their staffs, and baseball fans across the country for supporting tonight's congressional baseball game. this game is always an important moment for both parties to come together to support charity, build friendships, and celebrate our national pastime. but as you all know, tonight's game has taken on a much deeper level of meaning, beyond anything that we would have thought. by playing tonight, you are showing the world that we will not be intimidated by threats, acts of violence, or assaults on our democracy. the game will go on. i want to take a moment to send our thoughts, love, and prayers

to congressman steve scalise and his entire family. steve is our friend. he's a patriot, and he's a true fighter. i know you all will be playing extra hard tonight for steve. we pray for all of the victims of this terrible crime who are still recovering, including zachary barth and matt mika, both of whom are respected and cherished by so many. we also pray special agents crystal griner and david bailey of the capitol police for their heroic deeds that saved so many lives. what a great job they did. and we thank all of the members of the alexandria fire, police, and rescue. in washington we have our disagreements, but we all agree that we are here to serve this nation we love and the people who call it home. that's the source of unity, and more than ever we must embrace it so that on this special night, i leave you with three

great american words that for generations have torn down barriers, built bridges of unity, and defied those who have sought to pull us apart. ladies and gentlemen, let's play ball. >> i'm joined now by msnbc's chris jansing, my friend who is at nationals park for this game. chris, except for a few exceptions, the nasty boys, we always know their name, newt gingrich leading the pack, i'm impressed that neither side, especially the republicans who could have exploited this and said, oh, that's a bernie guy, they said, okay, he's a volunteer in the campaign. he could have volunteered for anybody. we're not going to play politics with this thing. i'm impressioned. >> reporter: i got to tell you, i talked to a lot of members of congress playing on that field right now within the last couple of hours i've been here, chris, and there is this mixed emotion here. obviously there is a feeling of devastation about what happened yesterday. many of them are exhausted. they told me they didn't sleep, and obviously they'rescalise.

when they were doing the lineups, they actually put his picture up on the board, and he got a big, long-standing ovation. having said that, i think there is also a feeling here like they want to show the world we're going to do this. the way one member of congress put it to me was, you know, you're not going to stop us. and so it's a 39-39 tie. this is a long tradition dating back to 1909 with some breaks in between. what you're going to see out there tonight is you're going to see the first lineup for the republicans is going to be those members of congress who actually were there at the shooting yesterday. and it was very emotional. i have to tell you, chris. they had a prayer. both teams got down on their knees in the middle of the field for a long time and said a prayer. there was a moment of silence, and then david bailey, that capitol hill police officer who was injured yesterday came out on crutches and threw the first pitch. it gave me chills. but now the game's beginning,

chris. >> thank you so much, chris jansing. up next, donald trump during the campaign warned of endless investigations, even a constitutional crisis if hillary clinton were elected president. well, things look a lot different now that you know who. we got a special counsel investigating the president. that's ahead. you're watching "hardball." we're on to you, diabetes. time's up, insufficient prenatal care. and administrative paperwork... your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you, too. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done. my belly pain i could build a small city with all the over-the-counter products i've used. enough! i've tried enough laxatives to cover the eastern seaboard.

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welcome back to "hardball." president trump took to twitter this afternoon. he can't resist it. shifting the focus he thinks from the russian probe to one of his favorite distractions. well, from 2016, the fbi investigation into the democratic rival hillary clinton. here's a taste of trump last year on the campaign trail. >> if hillary clinton were to be elected, it would create an unprecedented and protracted

constitutional crisis. haven't we just been through a lot with the clintons, right? >> hillary has engaged in a criminal massive enterprise and cover-ups like probably nobody ever before. >> her current scandals and controversies will continue throughout her presidency, and we will make it -- honestly, look, it's going to be virtually impossible for her to govern. >> hillary clinton will be under investigation for a long, long time for her many crimes against our nation, our people, our democracy, likely concluding in a criminal trial. >> let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable tonight, heidi przybyla, jeff bennett, and jonathan swannis from axios. heidi, the thing about trump that i thought was wrong was to attack hillary clinton for being investigated, and now it's come

around to be he's getting hurt by investigations without being proven guilty. the very fact of being investigating, he made it into a crime. >> the irony here is, of course, there is no way -- >> how tall are you? >> maybe they forgot it move it down. they usually move it down. anyway, i'll slouch a little bit. >> no, doubt. i'm okay. >> it's classic what about-ism, but the thing about hillary is there's no way they could have put this many tentacles on an e-mail server. this investigation is going to so many different knots that we're going to be tied up for years. regardless of what the republican plans were, i don't think we could have ever imagined this sprawling an investigative body over hillary clinton. >> and i don't think the -- it's hard to do the apples and oranges here, but there's an element of not treason but something like it. if he's guilty, which i don't know yet, if he's guilty of having consorted with the russians in any way to help them screw with our election, that's

a lot more serious than the hillary charges, even if she were guilty. >> it is a lot more serious. i would say i think the president does have a point here. if hillary clinton had won the election and the house controlled -- >> is npr defend ing the president? >> if republicans controlled the house, i think there would have been continued investigations related to the e-mail server. the difference though is the basis for it would have been largely partisan, wreas the basis for this counterintelligenc investigation is there's a really urgent national security issue here. >> it's bipartisan. >> and it's bipartisan. the senate today voted 97-2 -- or yesterday for those russian sanctions. >> it seems to me this thing has a dynamic. i hated that word when people started using it a few cycles ago, but it means something leads to something leads to something. so what trump may be innocent of perhaps it turns out possibly turned out innocent for the original reason for this investigation or it wasn't sufficient enough to knock him off or impeach him. but then he begins to take steps

like telling comey, get rid of the flynn investigation, and then give me the loyalty oath, and then going to coats and saying the same thing. get rid of the flynn investigation. and then going to rogers and saying, clear me of any collusion. he keeps taking steps as a result of the investigation that could very well metastasize into an impeachment. that's his problem. this thing has a dynamic to it that he keeps pushing perhaps the crimes into the future the way i see it. >> it's not just what he's saying privately. it's what he's saying publicly. you just mentioned all the things he's alleged to have said to comey and coats and rogers. >> as a result of good reporting. >> as a result of good reporting. or in comey's case, you know, that was a little bit helped along. >> well, he said it under oath. i believe him. >> i believe him too. i'm just saying he gave the document. that's how it got out. but what i'm saying a lot of republicans who are calling me in the last 24 hours, during a straight line between donald trump tweeting about thing and then leaks happening. now, whether that link exists or not, we know comey in his own

words said that it was trump tweeting about the tapes that made him feel an urgency to get this out in the public sphere. so, trump, you know, musing about sacking -- >> i like these leaks because there's the same kind of leaks we got from the intelligence community when people like dick cheney and the neocons over at the defense department were taking us into one war after another. it was only when we got truth from the intel community that we began to turn the tables on these people. >> michael flynn would still be in place if it weren't for, quote, unquote leaks. >> the roundtable is sticking with us. up next, these three will tell me something i don't know. this is "hardball," where the action is. ul. [man] beautiful just like you. [woman] oh, why thank you.

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philips sonicare diamondclean outperforms oral-b 7000, removing up to 82% more plaque and improving gum health up to 70% more. its sonic technology cleaning deep between teeth. from the most recommended sonic toothbrush brand by dental professionals. switch to philips sonicare today. philips sonicare. save when you buy now. we're back with the "hardball" roundtable. heidi. >> chris, i reported last night that there was a lot of consternation at a meeting of lawmakers after the shooting of steve scalise. they were expressing their concern. cedric richmond in particular had approached paul ryan a week before. he's good friends with steve scalise, and he had approached paul ryan about concerns about security. just a few hours ago, paul ryan's office got back to me and they said, in fact, we are ta talking with the fec to see if some of these house lawmakers,

if there is a smepecific threat can use campaign funds to provide more security. >> jeff. >> president trump is set to deliver a major speech in miami tomorrow. he's going to roll back some of the obama era cuba policies. one of those is going to restrict u.s. companies from doing business with companies in cuba that are owned by the cuban military. the other thing that more people will probably care about is he's going to restrict the categories under which americans can travel. >> i hear it's the biggest letdown in the world, the biggest nothing burger. people say if you go for three days, it's one too many days. cuba is a zero. go ahead. >> you've thrown me. what was i going to say? this comment trump made earlier in the week where he said the health care bill was mean to the senate republicans, this is causing huge problems, continuing problems on the hill. i was on the hill today. republicans are furious. senior republicans in the house that he would throw them under the bus like that after --

>> he jumped on the house health care bill to push it through. heidi, jeff, jonathan, thank you. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball," where the action is. it's an important question you ask, but one i think with a simple answer. we have this need to peek over our neighbor's fence. and once we do, we see wonder waiting. every step you take, narrows the influence of narrow minds. bridges continents and brings this world one step closer. so, the question you asked me. what is the key?

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trump watch, thursday, june 15th, 2017. there are two explanations i can think of for trump's behavior these months. one is he's guilty of having colluded with the russians in the 2016 presidential election. he knew what they were doing in

terms of fake news and hacking into the democratic national committee. he decided in some way to play ball with moscow, and that explained why he's done all sorts of things to kill any investigation and why he continues to deny the russian intervention last year. this all makes sense if he, donald trump, as i said played ball with the russians in a way that could be seen as treasonous. there's another explanation. may i be blunt? it's that he's absolutely convinced that the country's regular political establishment is out to get him, determined to bring him down, kill the credibility of his election last year, kill him as a reputable public figure. now, if trump is guilty of consorting with russia last year, i suppose his behavior makes sense sort of. he's doing whatever he can to throw a wrench into the works and hope he can wear down the investigators. if he's innocent about game playing with the russians and simply afraid of what he sees as a coordinated government media alliance, he should stop acting like he's guilty, and stop doing things that build the prosecutor's case for obstruction.

that's "hardball" for now. thanks for being with us. "all in" with chris hayes starts right now. tonight on "all in." >> i said, if it's possible, would you let me know am i under investigation? >> president trump is under investigation. >> first of all, when you're under investigation, you're giving all sorts of documents and everything. >> and now he's attacking the investigator. >> you are witnessing the single greatest witch hunt in american political history led by some very bad and conflicted people. >> tonight, as the vice president lawyers up, is the president still considering firing the special counsel? plus, new details on where the investigation is going and why potential money laundering is part of the picture. then, democrats continue to turn up the heat as the secret health care bill move as long. >> the president has called trumpcare bill from the house mean and a son of a