the codes and acting on impulse and ego. that is very frightening, all jokes aside. and i think when you look at the fact that he can have such a diametrically opposing view on various policies that affect those parts of the world, it shows that we as a nation better be very careful. >> all right. we're going to keep this conversation going, day after day, week after weak. thanks to our panel. john heilemann, marco lopez, reverend al sharpton, and my friend, robert traynham. that does it for this hour. i'm nicole wallace. "mtp daily" starts right now. >> nicole, are you ready for mark on sunday? are you going to be good to him if >> father's day. yeah, happy father's day. >> only one day a year you have to be nice to mark. remember that. thank you, nicole. if it's friday, did president trump sound the fire alarm again at the white house? tonight, president trump's latest twitter rant.

did he just confirm he's under investigation for obstruction of justice? plus, dazed and accused? the president attacks his deputy attorney general. will rod rosenstein be the next to step aside? and the cure for cat scratch fever. while i'm obsessed with rocker ted nugent's new political pitch. this is "mtp daily" and it starts right now. good friday evening. i'm chuck todd here in washington and welcome to "mtp daily." the special counsel's investigation is, indeed, expanding. and in response, the president has basically declared war on his own justice department. or it looked that way this morning. right now everyone in washington was waiting to see if deputy attorney general rod rosenstein either recuses himself, resigns, or gets fired. this comes after the president seemingly targeted rosenstein personally today for the fallout after it was rosenstein, of course, who officially appointed bob mueller as a special counsel

in reaction to the comey ouster. the president today tweeted, i am being investigated for firing the fbi director by the man who told me to fire the fbi director. witch hunt. first off, the president appeared to be publicly confirming that he's under an investigation, possibly a criminal one, for obstruction of justice. but, a source close to the president's outside counsel then told us that when the president says "i am being investigated for firing the fbi director," he doesn't really mean he's being investigated for firing the fbi director. this source, who has asked to remain anonymous, says the president was not confirming an investigation. instead, he was simply referencing the "washington post" story, which the president's legal team has bashed for relying on anonymous sources. in other words, his legal team was basically leaking to say, don't believe the president's words. second, for mr. trump to pin the comey firing on rosenstein is arguably a bit absurd. rosenstein told congress that president trump had already decided to fire comey when he

asked for rosenstein's input. and you don't have topic that rosenstein's word for it. >> you met with the deputy attorney general, rod rosenstein. >> right. >> did you ask for a recommendation? >> what i did is i was going to fire comey. my decision. regardless of recommendations, i was going to fire comey. knowing there was no good time to do it. >> third, the entire episode raises the very serious question about whether or not the president is laying the groundwork to fire rosenstein or get him to recuse himself from the russia probe or perhaps he feels the need to resign. rosenstein is the only one with the direct authority to fire the special counsel. but we know, based on his testimony, that he doesn't want to do that. he also oversees the special counsel's budget. if rosenstein, by the way, feels the need to step aside, and he may have to, because he was in the room with the president when he was pondering the firing of comey, then the authority of overseeing the special counsel would fall to associate attorney general, rachel brand, who served in the justice department under president bush. she's also served on an advisory

board under president obama. but, folks, what the heck is going on inside the white house right now? honestly, when we woke up this morning, we didn't know if the lead story today would be, say, about the white house's new cuba policy, their stance on the so-called dreamers, the feel-good unity of the congressional baseball game. it's as if the president is telling us, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know what you should talk about, russia, keep your eye on the ball, since he spent his morning tweeting about this. about half of the president's tweets since yesterday has focused on the investigation. he slammed the probe, congress, t hillary clinton, and he's now seemingly blaming his own department of justice for what he's calling a witch hunt. yes, it's extraordinarily confusing. i'm joined now by nbc justice correspondent, pete williams. pete, let's start with a simple question here. what's the status of rod rosenstein? >> well, i can't imagine that he's going to resign. i would be very surprised if he was fired. but you're right, at some point he has to consider whether he's going to recuse himself and he has said so publicly for the last couple of weeks. he has said, if the time comes, i will certainly consider that.

and the problem, of course, as you noted, is that he has a definite role in the firing of james comey. he wrote that memo at the president's request. the president initially said he relied on. he was in the meeting with the president the day before comey was fired. if it comes to that, he's certainly prepared to do it. he's talked about doing it. the other thing i would say about the president's tweet there is that it's factually wrong to say that he's being investigated by rod rosenstein. rod rosenstein isn't investigating anything to do with the president, because that's the special counsel's job. >> it was also odd -- the tweet was odder this morning, because rod rosenstein put out one of the most cryptic statements we've seen from any governor official in some time. he put out this release last night. "americans should exercise caution before accepting as true any stories attributed to anonymous officials, particularly when they do not identify the country, let alone the branch or agency of government, with which the

laelglaelg ed sources are affiliated." what was he responding to? >> well, a couple of things. what i'm told by people at the justice department is number one, this was his decision to do this. one official told me today, this is 100% rod. in other words, nobody put him up to this. he had -- we know, he's been bugged by a couple of things that he says are wrong from the day he came into office. there was a story that he threatened to resign over the way his handling of -- his role in the comey firing was reported by the white house. he says that's not true. there was a story that he had met with comey and turned comey down on additional resources for the russia investigation. he says that's not true. and by the way, so does comey say that's not true. and then you add the other stories, the two "washington post" stories today about the obstruction investigation, looking at jared kushner's finances, and rosenstein just kind of thought, enough is enough. and i think the message was intended to, a, express his own frustration, and b, to be a message to the justice department and the fbi, stop

leaking! >> but what's this message? it didn't say anything. it didn't talk about -- it didn't talk about that these leaks are illegal, and in some cases, they're not illegal, at all. >> correct. if there's no grand jury investigation, for example. but i think it was intended to -- here's the issue. it was intended to be a message to doj and fbi employees, stop doing this. maybe he was thinking, you know, this just annoys the white house. i don't know about that part. but the other problem is, i don't think he knows whether these -- where these leaks are coming from, because he doesn't know what the special counsel is doing. by his own testimony this week before congress, he's talked to mueller once and that's before he was appointed. he doesn't know the scope of mueller's investigation. and i've confirmed today he hasn't spoken to mueller since his investigation on tuesday. so he doesn't know. >> does the special counsel have an obligation to let the president know if, indeed, he is under investigation for obstruction of justice? >> no, anymore than a u.s. attorney would have an obligation to tell anyone they're under investigation.

i also think, maybe, it's a little too grand a ward to use, "investigation," at this point. because that sort of implies that they already know that somebody did something bad and they're trying to build a case against them. i suspect on this obstruction thing, they want to know what happened. they want to talk to the people that the president has talked to about this. they want to get the facts. call that an investigation if you want to. but just realize that it's not the way we normally think of them as. and of course, we all know, ultimately, it can't lead to a criminal prosecution anyway. >> that's what i mean. when -- is there ever a legal requirement to let somebody know their status if they're in being potentially -- or is it just, wait until the papers are served, if papers get served? >> there's no legal requirement. now, the u.s. attorney's manual says, if you're going to nail somebody, you should give them the opportunity to try to talk you out of it. and say why this is a bad idea. and it happens all the time.

and you can send them a target letter and say, you know, you're the target of the grand jury, we're about to make your life miserable. tell us why we shouldn't do it. but why would the government do that? because, remember, the why the justice department thinks of itself is not as trying to win a game, but trying to get justice. and so, their goal is not to bring cases that don't have any merit. if you think they're wrong, try to talk them out of it. it very seldom works. sometimes it does, but there's no obligation to do that. >> by the way, you brought up a grand jury. there's no evidence that the grand jury has been handled here. >> absolutely not. no evidence that they're -- and by the way, i don't think they ever would impanel a grand jury, if they need to issue subpoenas, as the fbi already has, they would use existing grand juries. >> pete williams, boy, your beat gets more interesting by the day. >> it's a living. >> yes, it is. thank you, sir. i'm joined now by senator amy klobuchar, democrat from minnesota, also a member of the judiciary committee.

which, by the way, very quietly went under the radar, they just opened their own investigation into the president's firing of director james comey. senator klobuchar, thanks for coming on. >> thank you, chuck. it's great to be on. >> i want to get more on this decision. senator grassley did this. he's come under some criticism by republicans to do this. what's going on behind the scene here is? is it -- was it the letter from dianne feinstein that got grassley to do this? what happened? can you take us behind the scenes? >> yeah. one of the things that is clear is that the judiciary committee has the primary jurisdiction here when it comes to oversight of the justice department and the fbi. and yet, despite repeated requests from individual members of the committee, we still haven't had attorney general sessions come before the committee and in an unprecedented move, he appeared before intelligence. that wasn't -- that has happened before with attorney generals, but what happened here was he went there first. and so i think we are glad or i am glad, i should say, the

intelligence community is doing their thorough job and they called attorney general sessions there. but attorney general sessions must come before judiciary. one, for oversight purposes to explain the comey firing, but, two, there's a lot of other things going on there. you've got to refugee order. you've got the change in some of the immigration policy. the criminal justice policy. the voting commission. we simply can't have a justice department and an attorney general that doesn't come before the senate judiciary committee. >> now, there's been some indication, at least, that on the republican side of your committee, they'd like to have this probe expanded to get into the role loretta lynch may or may not have played in the e-mail investigation, into hillary clinton. are you comfortable that the scope of this investigation should include director comey's interactions, both with the attorney general of this administration and the attorney general of the last administration? >> you know, i think what we're looking for right now is a hearing and having come before

his memos. and in a public hearing, people are free to ask whatever questions they can. we don't limit the questions of members in judiciary. i, myself, will focus on what happened with the firing and with attorney general sessions, not only the policy issues i mentioned, but also, what were his discussions with the russian ambassador, right after the president and putin had met and president obama had said he wasn't going to get rid of the sanctions and here you have a few days later, jeff sessions suddenly meeting with the russian ambassador. and those questions actually -- >> is that the timeline? right, wait, jeff sessions -- >> yes. >> we know mike flynn, but you've got a receive session je meeting as well? >> my colleague, al franken, had asked then senator sessions about whether or not he had met with the russians, he said he hadn't, then the meeting came out. remember the meeting he had with the russians --

>> the september meeting in his office. >> right. that's right. and it was only a few days after vladimir putin and barack obama had met at the international -- >> gotcha. it's that one. i was conflating, yep. yep, i gotcha. >> there are so many meetings, chuck. but the point is, no one's actually asked in detail about the substance of that meeting and i am very curious about that. and there are many reasons he should come before the judiciary committee. >> when you heard, though, former director comey talk about his interactions with the attorney general, loretta lynch, back then and he seemed to be troubled by different things, did that bother you at all? >> oh, well, i think that my colleagues will be asking about that. loretta lynch's spokesperson issued a statement, saying that she simply wanted to make clear when she said it should be re r referred or they all agreed it should be referred to as a matter, she said that was because she didn't want to make it look like they were going to make a decision on this, right before a campaign. the point is, that did bother jim comey.

i know him from law school. he's by the book. and i'm sure my colleagues will ask questions about that and they have a right to. >> do you think rod rosenstein has to recuse himself? >> no, i do not. i think rod rosenstein is a cautious prosecutor, someone who's been doing this through many administrations and he's going to make that decision if that happens. i don't know all the facts involved. what i do know is what he told us we could tell you and the public right after that briefing we had in a classified setting. i specifically asked him and he said we could publicly explain what he told us and that is that he had been told that the president was going to fire comey before he wrote that memo. so that memo was not the reason for the firing. and despite the fact that we were led to think that -- >> and you believe that is enough -- >> the firing is what the president said. >> and you believe that that -- >> i don't know that, chuck. >> that that alone -- but if that is the way -- if that's -- that means he can still supervise the special counsel, even if he's called in as a

witness? >> yeah. i could never say that for certain, because i don't know all the facts. but what i do know is the most disturbing tweet i'd ever seen, and there have been a lot of them, was the four between 7:00 and 9:00 a.m. from the president. but the one at the very end where he said that the man who was -- who told him to fire comey was the same man who was investigating him. number one, we know for certain that he decided to fire comey before that memo was written. and number two, it is not rod rosenstein that is making those decisions. this investigation is being conducted independently by bob mueller, who's the independent prosecutor. and when we get into all of these details, we sometimes forget, this is about a foreign power trying to influence america. >> if rod rosenstein does recuse himself, rachel branwood would be the next person up to supervise the special counsel. you voted to confirm rosenstein,

but voted against the confirmation of brand. why? >> i was concerned about her -- the hearing that we had, she answered very few questions. she actually -- she and rosenstein appeareding to and rosenstein answered most of the questions. i directly asked her some questions. i had a pleasant meeting with her in my office but i was concerned about her in this job and she now has a job and i respect that. and i think you've got to take the words of lindsynindsaey gra. and the words of lindsey graham this week is if the president were to fire rosenstein or mueller, it would be a disaster. mueller has not even started to do his job. and i would hope that rachel brand, who does have legal experience here, would understand that and even if for some reason this went into her hands, would do the right thing for the justice department. >> all right. senator amy klobuchar, i'm going to leave it there, democrat from

minnesota, thanks for coming on. appreciate it. >> thanks, chuck. >> okay. coming up, resign, recuse, fired. what is next for the acting attorney -- well, the acting -- the deputy attorney general who oversees this investigation? we'll have more in a minute. we'll be right back. but there . it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. our bodies grow babies... we run marathons... ...companies. ...solve problems. how? we eat. we eat almonds, strawberries, quinoa and yeah...we eat chocolate.

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get fast internet and add phone and tv now for only $24.90 more per month. our lowest price ever on this offer. but only for a limited time. call today. comcast business. built for business. welcome backs to "mtp daily." we have an update on the condition of house majority whip, steve scalise, who was, of course, shot earlier this week during the republican congressional baseball team practice. the doctors at medstar washington hospital say the congressman's condition remains critical, but the good news is his vital sign strabs have stab. they're encouraged by scalise's improvement over the last 36 hours compared to his status when he reached the hospital, which they characterized as at imminent risk of death. the good news is that that's no longer the case. congressman scalise will require additional surgeries and will certainly be in the hospital for a considerable period of time. meanwhile, some good news

about special agent, crystal griner, who was shot while protecting the lawmakers from that gunman. she's now in good condition. doesn't mean she's out of the hospital yet, but that also another good sign. so relatively speaking, some improved news today on that front. we'll be back in 60 seconds. this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you p3 it's meat, cheese and nuts. i keep my protein interesting.

oh yea, me too. i have cheese and uh these herbs. p3 snacks. the more interesting way to get your protein. welcome back. panel is here. national review ma jb nenesh, h przybyla, welcome all. we go back to something this morning in our morning meeting, when i was up at my usual early time deciding which direction, how much cuba should we do today. the president did the budget meeting for us. he said, no, no, no, pay no attention to what i'm doing today, refocus on -- he cannot get this out of his head. obviously, something triggered this. >> what is the one thing we know angers this president almost more than anything else. a leak. and that is how i interpreted this. he was angry that someone, and he thought it was the fbi, who

has the fbi? rosenstein. leaked out that he is, in fact, under investigation. so of course he tweeted out. but this is creating, as in so many cases in this whole episode, a pattern of the president essentially going after any individual who is in a position of power over this investigation. you saw it with mueller, you saw it previously, where he was angry at sessions, because he didn't recuse himself -- >> that he did recuse himself. he's still upset about that. >> i apologize, that he did recuse himself. >> and comey. forgot that. we know what happened there. >> and it's not easy to do what he did today. he was able to get two lies into 140 characters. think about that for a second. by saying that he was being investigated by the man who ordered him to fire comey. neither of which was true, by the way. >> well, we don't know about the investigation. >> but we do know -- >> we do know it's not rosenstein. and we also know that rosenstein didn't tell him to fire comey. it is interesting.

it absolutely drives him crazy. last week was infrastructure week. does anybody remember that? today, he made news on this cuba thing, rolling back -- >> and daca. >> daca is a different story in a way that was a semi-surprising -- >> and what are we talking about? we're not talking about either of those things nor are we talking about infrastructure? >> well, it's driving the news today not only because he's lashing out and he's not talking about the other events of the day, but also because it's mysterious. it's not exactly clear what he means >> or what triggered it. >> i think there's a legitimate complaint about the leaks. at this point, i don't see the public interest in it, but you've got to stop and think, presumably, if you're the president of the united states, does my planing about this serve any interest of the public's or of my own? and here, it's hard to see how it does. >> i disagree. there's a huge public interest in this leak. and that is, prior to this, the news was that the president might fire mueller.

so if you get the information out there that mueller is investigating the president, that makes it much harder for the president to go ahead and do that. >> doesn't it, though, seem really obviously, though. given the fact pattern, that mueller had to be investigating the president for obstruction of justice because it would be negligent not to. you have bread comes everywhere -- >> by the way, i thought that was a very -- an investigation -- you want to investigate something doesn't mean it's a formal investigation where you're going to impanel a grand jury. there is a difference. but i think you're right. there's enough bread crumbs out there, you have to. i need to understand the motivation behind this. how do you not? >> and that's why most people who read that story believed it. it was plausible that's what would be happening and it's what was expected to happen. >> my wife who worked with bob mueller for years at the u.s. attorney's office said, of course he's investigating -- why is this even news? it's obvious. it's obvious to anyone. and remember this. donald trump with great bravado said he'll go under oath and testify and do all of this.

it wasn't anything occurred in white water or even with monica lewinsky that brought down bill clinton in the impeachment, it was what he did under oath with -- in a deposition. and donald trump lies. and he lies routinely, repeatedly, and he can't help himself. he will be -- >> it's a perjury charge. >> if he's not careful. >> perjury. >> although nobody can actually be trapped into perjury. you have to decide to do it yourself. >> it's a perjury trap if you don't know how to tell the truth. >> i think mueller, obviously, has to conduct himself in a way that he's walking the line and so there's no excuse for firing him. i think he needs to make contingency plans for the investigation to proceed, if he does get fired. i don't think it's right for the, for mueller to be taking steps to try to reduce the likelihood that he's going to be fired. >> but in terms -- >> i was just going to say, we don't know that. >> we don't know where that -- >> we don't know that. let me bring up the rod rosenstein situation. obviously, the president's very angry at him. he may be simply angry because

he's the guy that appointed the special counsel. we know that jeff sessions, he's upset that he recused himself, which gave the authority to rod rosenstein, which in turn led to this. which then leads to the mysterious rod rosenstein statement from last night. first of all, how long can he go without recusing himself at this point? >> well, that's a big question. because at the epicenter of this investigation is now obstruction of justice, over the comey -- if, i said if. >> i was just going to say. >> if that is a big part of this investigation now, is is over obstruction of justice. and rosenstein would be central to that, given that he is the one who wrote the letter and that there is a dispute over what the genesis of that was, whether it came from him or whether the president ordered him to do it. he would seem to be, possibly, central to that investigation. >> if he becomes a witness, an actual witness, and i presume he would have to recuse himself, but right now he's not conducting the investigation. he's supervising the individual who is. and so, i don't think there's any reason for him to recuse himself currently.

and unless he becomes a witness, i don't think there will be at any point any reason for him to recuse hills. >> what's this do to the white house if everybody's -- it seems like anybody who the president touched on comey and perhaps flynn, because then that becomes related to the comey firing, has felt the need to get a lawyer. vice president pence, we know, has an outside counsel. we know jared kushner has outside counsel. who -- i mean, is that where this is heading inside that west wing? >> well, you think that anybody even peripherally involved here would be well advised to lawyer up. that's the way these things work. and if you don't get good legal representation, you can end up facing some pretty serious consequences. that is going to -- you know, this is going to be just occupying the minds of people when other things could be about how to drive the president's agenda. that's one of the reasons why trump resents the investigation. >> and by the way, it's about building trust issues. because then everybody's looking over their shoulder. wait, wait, wait, you went to the special counsel -- are you

cutting a deal? wait, what's going on here? and that only creates more problems. >> i talked to sources within the white house who say that on a certain level, people are willfully ignorant of what's going on. people who are in positions who should know things don't, because they don't want to know them. they're -- >> stay away from that meeting. >> they're walling themselves off. and then there's this lay eer o people like mike pence who are in the inner circle and under these circumstances, he had to. >> of course he did. >> and these are people who most of whom, with the exception to have the goldman sachs true, they don't have the kind of money it's going to take to write these checks months after months after months to these lawyers. i think george stephanopoulos came out of the white house with about $6,000 in legal fees. >> and these are young folks that don't have that kind of money. you guys are sticking around. we'll talk about something that's not russia, i think, in the e-block. coming up, democrats are starting out with a big advantage in the general

election. and if it's sunday, i will be focusing on the russian investigation. i'll will talking to one of the president's outside legal counsels, jay sec lowe. plus, senators marco rubio and an exclusive interview with angus king both of the intel committee. check those local stations and we are on the air on normal times. don't miss it. phone with our allstate agent,

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a lot more "mtp daily" ahead, including the special election that could be a game changer for the democrats and

it's not the one you think it is. but first, a programming note. tomorrow night, on the 45th anniversary of the watergate break-in, msnbc will bring you a special presentation of "all the president's men revisited." the documentary narrated by robert redford offers a comprehensive look of the watergate scandal, weaving firsthand accounts from those at the center of the storm with the scenes from redford's movie, "all the president's men." it's an enjoyable way to remember and sort of relive some of that history for some of you and perhaps it's history you need to know. that's tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern, only on msnbc. we'll be right back. but first, here's deedra bosa with the friday market wrap. what have we got? >> reporter: happy friday, thanks, chuck, stocks ending today mixed. the dow rose 24 points with, the s&p gained just a fraction and the nasdaq lost 13. the big news of the day, amazon is expanding its presence in brick and mortar retail. the ecommerce giant will buy

supermarket chain whole foods for more than $13 billion in cash. and new home construction was slow for a third straight month. the commerce department reports housing starts fell 5.5% in may, while building permits fell nearly 5%. and that's it from cnbc, first in business worldwide. when you booked this trip, you didn't know we had over 26,000 local activities listed on our app. or that you could book them right from your phone. a few weeks ago, you still didn't know if you were gonna go. now the only thing you don't know, is why it took you so long to come here. expedia. everything in one place, so you can travel the world better. ♪ at lincoln financial, we get there are some responsibilities of love you gotta do on your own. and some you shouldn't have to shoulder alone. like ensuring your family is protected,

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welcome back. the race is set in what may be one of the most competitive races this november. it's the fight to be the next governor of virginia. we get this every off off year, every four years, thanks to the term limit, one-year term limit, or one-term term limit in virginia. happening at the primaries earlier this week, lieutenant governor ralph northam will go head to head with ed gillespie. both are moderates in their party that will do their best to paint each other as extremists. there were about 200,000 more democratic ballots cast than republican ballots. it's early, but the general election strategy for both parties seems clear.

tie the opposing candidate to each party's extremes. in a state where the president is not so popular. and republicans are labeling northam as the most liberal democratic nominee in history. they purchased a domain name, tooliberalralph.com. joining me is the current lieutenant governor, ralph northam. mr. lieutenant governor, first congratulations on your primary win. that's a big deal. >> thank you, chuck. happy friday to you and your viewers. >> thank you very much. so let me start with the portrayal that the gillespie campaign wants to make of you. they say you're the most liberal nominee for governor in the history of virginia. do you accept that label, number one? and number two, are they right? >> well, chuck, as you know, i grew up in rural virginia over on the eastern shore and attended virginia military institute in lexington, virginia. and i don't know how many liberals come out of vmi, i don't know why their confusion. but the most important thing is we're promoting economic opportunity for all virginians here, no matter who you are, no

matter where you are, and we've been very successful and will continue to do that over the next four years. >> you voted, you know, one of the things that gives you the perception among many democrats that you're moderate and not a part of the progressive side of things is that you supported george w. bush, not once, but twice. what made george w. bush a better presidential candidate in your mind than john kerry in 2004? >> i had served in the united states army, i served in desert storm, taking care of wounded soldiers. and during that time of my life, i started any medical practice in norfolk as a pediatric hospice. i was underperformed politically. and knowing what i know about george bush's policies and principles and values, it was the wrong vote. the one thing i would say, when i was asked, i didn't dance around the question, i told the truth. and you know, virginians are looking for a leader that will look them in the eyes and tell them the truth. and that's what i bring to the table.

>> speaking of that, let me ask you this, because what adds to this evidence of where you are on the party scale, until 2009, it was reported that republicans were courting you to switch parties, right after you got elected to the state senate. what was that about and how serious did you consider it? >> well, it was really more about power sharing with the finance committee. there were some things that i was working on for my district to include our children's hospital and the medical school. i had never considered switching parties. that was a tweet that went out by one of the republicans, i guess, that had wishful thinking. but i had thought for virginia's progressive democratic values for ten years. i'm proud to be a democrat and i believe that when we elect democrats in virginia, good things happen. >> during your primary debate, at one point you seemed to say, hey, this race isn't about donald trump. and in a general election campaign, i feel a feeling we're going to hear a lot about donald trump. is it or isn't it? >> donald trump, in my opinion and a lot of virginian's

opinions is a desperate man. he's a washingtonian with a virginia address. and we're going to be very careful to continue to our promote our economy. we're going to do it with workforce development and inclusivity here in virginia. and the hatred and the bigotry that's coming out of washington, we're not going to tolerate it here in virginia. display a fair hit on ed gillespie? he, basically, almost lost the republican nomination, because he wasn't close -- perceived as close enough to president trump. >> well, you know, his tax plan is a disaster. it just gives tax cuts to the rich on the backs of the working class in virginia. he supports mr. trump's now new medical plan that puts 23 million americans at risk, especially those with pre-existing conditions. he agrees with mr. trump that he should have separated from the paris agreement, putting a lot of detriment and just bad things for environment in virginia. so you know, he's just cut from the same cloth as mr. trump, and again, that's not what we stand for in our democratic party in virginia and we're going to do

everything we can to keep that influence from coming to virginia. >> you have been very tough on president trump the individual. is there anything in his agenda that as a governor of virginia, you would want to work with him on, not against him? >> well, obviously, he wants to build our military up. and we build a lot of warships and submarines right here in the commonwealth of virginia. he also says that he's going to get rid of sequestration. sequestration hurt our economy a couple years ago. so if he wants to end sequestration and build up our military, you know within i'll work with him on those issues. >> and another issue that comes up very much more in state races than it does in national races and it's come up off and on in virginia. and i didn't ask you this before, but i'm curious, where are you on the death penalty? >> well, i oppose the death penalty. i certainly support life in prison without parole. at the same time, chuck, we have to be very cognizant and aware of the tragedies that the victims g throuo through. so i'm all about taking care of

them, as well. but i'm opposed to the death penalty. >> now, tim kaine was opposed e to the death penalty personally, but he implied that he would let one go through if indeed somebody did get the death penalty, get sentenced to death. where are you on that? would you -- if somebody is sentenced to death, will you enforce the law? >> absolutely. i'll uphold the law of virginia. >> so you would, while you're personally against, will you work to undo it or just simply, you're personally against but you'll enact it if necessary? >> well, that's certainly something that the legislature will address and you know, if the house and the senate vote to do away with the death penalty, i would certainly sign that piece of legislation. >> and finally, i want to ask about the tragedy this week in -- that happened in virginia. what happened in alexandria, governor mcauliffe, when he was there, he brought up the issue of guns. >> yes. >> and saying that that needed to be -- this has been an important issue to you.

how much of a priority do you think gun control needs to be for the next governor? >> well, certainly our thoughts and prayers go out to the folks thorp shot and also to the police and first responders that took such excellent care to these folks. but we for too long said that our prayers and thoughts are with these families. but we really need to honor these folks with action. so it's time for us to come together in a bipartisan way and support responsible gun ownership in virginia and that's what i plan to do as the next governor. >> what does that mean? what's one concrete step you think you can do? >> well, the first step, chuck, is universal background checks. that's what most virginians agree on. it's all about having a conversation and say, look, let's agree that we need to promote responsible gun ownership, just like we would promote a safe drive-in in on our highways in virginia. that's not asking too much. and so once we agree on that, let's take the next step to make our society safer so that people can love and work and raise their children here in virginia and not be worried about such tragedies as we saw a couple

days ago. >> lieutenant governor, i appreciate your time. i hope to have you on again, to get into more issues, as well. stay safe on the trail. >> thanks a lot and y'all have a great weekend. >> you got it. programming note by the way. we here at m tp dai"mtp dailym" see republican ed gillespie right here. we plan to have him on the program very soon, as well. up next, what president trump could learn from ted nugent. i noticed it as soon as we moved into the new house. ♪ a lot of people have vertical blinds. well, if a lot of people jumped off a bridge, would you? you hungry? i'm okay right -- i'm... i'm becoming my, uh, mother. it's been hard, but some of the stuff he says is actually pretty helpful. pumpkin, bundling our home and auto insurance is a good deal! like buying in bulk! that's fun, right? progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto.

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welcome back. tonight, i'm obsessed, of course, with the courseness of our politics. i've been obsessed about it for a long time. and with a high-profile violator who has promised to do something about it. and an even higher-profile violator. ted nugent is known for more for his hateful statements about president obama than any song he did. yesterday, on a radio talk show, in the wake of this week's shooting here in washington, nugent said, enough already, sst time to tone things down. i'm not going to engage in that kind of hateful rhetoric anymore, nugent said. and then he went further. take a listen. >> i cannot and i will not and i encourage even my friends/enemy on the left in the democrat and liberal world that we have got to be civil to each other. >> hear, hear.

good on you, ted nugent. seriously, thank you. a lot of us say good on you. but there's someone more famous and more influential that could do well to follow ted nugent's lead. president trump. instead of attacking hillary clinton the day after steve scalise was shot, would have been worthy of cooling down the rhetoric just for that day. doing so would not only have been worthy of the dignity of the office but it would have sent a signal to those on the left and right, though we may disagree in the end, we are all americans and no one has a monopoly on love for their country. that would have helped make america again, that's for sure. but even the timing of it, just as everyone on capitol hill does want to do this. we'll be right back. ♪ but there were planes to catch and bills to pay ♪ ♪ so i moved my meeting saw him walk that day ♪ ♪ he was talking 'fore i knew it, and as he grew ♪ ♪ he'd say i'm gonna be like you, dad ♪ ♪ you know i'm gonna be like you ♪ ♪ and the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon ♪

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>> i do think that the obvious, democrats will be bouyed if they win that seat, held more recently by tom price, the secretary of health and human services. i think it plays into the health care debate. i think there is no question that the unpopular the republican health care bill has been the bigger issue for the democrats there. than any of this russia controversy has been. if the republican loses and john ossoff the democrat wins, i think it will scare more republicans off the health care bill because they'll think it's political poison. >> here's an interesting number. the president's numbers have gone down in that district from 54% favorable to 45% favorable today which is still 10 or 11 points higher than it is nationwide. i think there's a lot of pressure on democrats to win this because if we do it puts us in a pretty good position to say the house is in reach. doubters will follow.

if you're republican you're looking at donald trump at 45. if you don't win that seat, how are you going to win the seats where donald trump is at 35? and there are a lot more of those than 45. >> interesting, i think 45 is sort of the new 50 in this case. i think obama proved that. i think democrats held any seat where his approval rating didn't drop below 45 back in those 10 and 14 rates. >> there's a lot of benchmarks you can use. you can put out the approval rating and i can put out the fact there's 24 seats out there as well where hillary clinton won in republicans are representing, or i can look at partisan reporter indexes where i can show there are 60 more districts that will be more favorable to democrats. look, tom price won this by 20, over 20 points a mere months ago. the fact that even if it's like -- it is a cliff hanger, right? and there's going to be a very, very minor difference, whatever the outcome is, it's going to be very close. this is proof positive that trump is starting to rub off on

these republicans. that's a problem. i don't think any of us can say that means the house goes or the house doesn't go. >> that i agree. >> it does mean it's going to be really close. >> we should guard against having a misleading picture of the special elections of the strength of the two parties. because you have the special elections because there isn't an incumbent. >> special elections are special for a reason. they're special. it means they're not normal. anyway, go ahead. >> the incumbent would have an opportunity to create an identity. they'll have a chance to vote for or against the president. they'll have ties that are deeper than a newcomer in an open seat. i think republicans are likely to do better than a democrat. everybody knows that. >> all of that is correct. however, there is a reason for the saying canary in the coal mine. every indicator that heidi just mentioned favors the democrats and so one of the things you have to do in an off-year is you have to generate momentum for the on year and democrats so far haven't done as much of that by winning as they might be able to

do on tuesday. that will be a big, big night for them because it creates momentum that it's hard to turn back. >> at the same time, i do think ramesh is right, that the real indication on this may be for health care just because if you look at the way that ossoff ran, it was mostly railing against health care and not necessarily the president personally. the implications of that at this very fragile moment where senate republicans don't even want to tell us what's in their bill and the implications of how they could kind of back off -- >> ramesh, i want you to comment on that really quick. do you think senate republicans -- this feels like a smart short term play but a questionable long term play on keeping this so secret. >> regardless of the political implication, it's hard to defend on the merits. it is incredibly important piece of legislation. i liked obamacare a great deal. it did go to committee, it was open for months. we were talking about specific provisions. this right now is a black box and the question is are they

going to allow it to be debated for a sufficient time with enough openness. >> all right, i have to leave it there. my guess would be you simply concur. >> it's interesting mr. mcconnell won't let the republicans see what's in it. >> ramesh, steve, heidi, i'm sorry, that's all. i have to let you go. after the break, georgia 6 is not the only race on the ballot next tuesday. this is a story about mail and packages.

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is not the only special election that is happening this coming tuesday. there is another house seat left open by another of the president's cabinet members. democrat archie parnell and republican ralph norman are facing off to fill the south carolina seat that used to belong to the office of management and budget director nick mulvaney. in case you missed it everything you're hearing about the georgia race will determine the future of health care in this country, will decide whether the president can be impeached, everything, i mean everything is at stake. we know it is a bit of an exaggeration. but if the democrats don't manage to pull oof south carolina 5 in a district that president trump carried by 18 points and nick mulvaney won by more than that, 20 points, then all those world changing things you're hearing about may be true. bottom line, keep an eye on the south carolina race on tuesday and watch the margins. those will matter here, too. the big money and all the attention is focused on georgia. but it's the south carolina one that would be the real game changer if something happened. conventional wisdom, we thought we were spend being tuesday night on the virginia race

refreshing those democrat primary numbers. little did we know it was the republican race was the squeaker. what if that's what r tuesday is like? catch you on meet the press on mtp. for the record with greta starts now. go greta. >> thank you, check. is president trump about to help out a genocidal world leader indicted for mass murder? it is a shocking story, we'll bring it to you. first who will the president go after next? starting today with a bang, i'm being investigating for firing the fbi director by the man who told me to fire the fbi director. witch hunt. he is under investigation, then this. after that tweet headlines, a source close to his outside attorney denying the president's tweet was a confirmation that he was being investigated. that presidential tweet also apparently attacking deputy attorney general rod rosenstein who wrote that memo outlining his