succession of three terror attacks and then fire. a lot of pressure on ther ree a is a may's government, and don't forget that last week is when we had the june 8th election which resulted in a hung parliament, and so there has been a sense of the attitudshifti when it comes to the authorities. a lot of criticism over what has been described by some critics as incompetent handling of the terror incidents as well as the fire. not by the emergency services of course, because those have been p performing to the best of their abilities, and that is another important pointb to mention. i mean, these the first aid w k workers and the hospital workers, and they are human people, too, and they are dealing with the casualties and attack after attack, and fire and now this vehicle running over several pedestrian, and it is something taking a toll on the emergency services as well who have been working around the clock, richard. >> good point made. we are at the top of the hour,

and lucy kafanov standing by for us with all of that contex prt the london bureau. we at the top of the hour local 9:00 p.m. eastern, and we are looking at pictures coming out of london at 2:00 a.m., and this is breaking news after the london metropolitan police were saying that they were called after midnight, around 12:20 a.m. on the early monday morning june 19th to reports of a vehicle that collided with the pedestrians, and you can see the red dot on the map, and the location of this in central london is that if you are familiar the area, south of finsbury park, the abchul park itself, and the small dot there in the middle there, and the officers, they were saying that they were then deployed to the scene with other emergency services, including ambulances,

and number of casualties thes, and the met police is saying that they are being worked on at this scene. and thereas been one person arrested in this. thissot a lot of information, and it is close to as you saw on the picture there to one of the mosques in the area, and this is in the middle of ramadan and they would have just finished late prayers before, for the islamic holy month of ramadan. mac bishop an nbc producer is close to the scene. mac, have you learned anything more in the last 15 to 30 minutes since being on site? >> richard, there is not a lot of information coming out of where i am either from the police or the growing crowd of onlookers, gawkers and mosquegoers who are gathering here. the crowd is getting increasingly agitated, however, and the metropolitan police

service is very adept at of course calming and deflecting a lot of the anger, and people just want answers. they want to know what is going on, and so we have stein police on scene don't have much to tell them. >> as the met police continue to move to and from, have you seen any change in the activity set? >> there has not been much change from where i am standing, richard. i have seen a number of people escorted out of, out from behind the police cordon, and there has been a few more police vehicles into the area, and other than th that, things are seeming stable from where i am standing. >> all right. mac, we will get you back to fact-gathering. again around 2:00 a.m. local time as we are following this story coming out of london england. a van is hitting a kroushgsd and not sure of the numbers. there are casualties, and one person arrested the london metropolitan police.

malcolm nance, an nbc terror analyst is following this as well. and you have been listening to reporting from lucy kafanov and mac bishop, and both from the london bureau. lucy in the bureau itself, and mac on site, and what are you taking away from this? well, first, it is important to note that to a activity taking place is not just in london in north london near finsbury, but in the vicinity of the finsbury mosque as the previous reporter noted. this is a time during the holy month of ramadan, and the finsbury mosque in the past before it was reformed and had a new imam produced extremism, and that is notabler for richard reid, and zachariah muzawhi.

and if this turns out to be a deliberate nature, and a tarting the people in the mosque, the perpetrators could come in with one of two flavors, extremists who now hate the mainstream m muslims, which we see a lot of, and especially the followers of isis or even the westerners or the brith white nationalists or the third part, it could be a car accident. so until the british, the metropolitan police and scotland yard come out with the statements statements, we are left up in the air to determine what is going on. but we have a saying in counter terrorism that the target is the tell. the place and the people who are attacked generally give you a good parameter of what the

intent of terrorist was by who they actually targeted. so again, we have three different possibilities from the normal mundane this could be a car accident, and everybody is on alert all of the way out to anti-muslim extremists both of muslim, isis-type origin or the westerners who are anti-immigrant, and anti-muslim. >> and malcolm, the history and the context of the finsbury park mosque, how far back does the time line go in a general sense? >> well, it is a large building and i have been out there. it is a five-story building set in the middle of the street. that history goes back to the 1990s, and you know, a lot of the famous photographs of, because it is even though it is a large mosque, the population there would pray out in the street, and there is photographs from the 1990s, and early 2000s of some adherents wearing some

militant camouflage and again, that is a very old history. the trustees got rid of all of the people associated with that. the community, itself, just completely reject ed anything t do with the islamic extremism or cultism that is related to the isis ideology which is what they called them. it has become run of the mill mosque, but it now has a famous name. it produced richard reid, the shoe bomber who tried to the bring an explosive device into the united states in his shoe, and he was stopped by passengers. they actually had members of the finsbury mosque going to the yemen to incite a riot there, and the priest there muhammad al

us n nusri was a radical priest there. and so finsbu rushry is a model that the. and so if this is a deliberate act of terrorism, this mightt be why they would attack the peaceful worshippers or the people around that play, and an attack on the traditional islam that rejects the islamic extremism extremism. >> and noteworthy building of praise with the background that you are giving us, richard nance. we have no indication that sitter error-related, but we only understand and have confirmed from the london metropolitan police that a vehicle hit some pe des tdestrid there are casualties and one person is arrested. that is the information that we have. jim cavenaugh is still with us. jim, we are showing some of the

video from the streets closeby to the location, and the reason why we are talking about the mosque, et is because it is very u much close to what london metropolitan police say that this incident happened at, and not necessarily that it is the target or necessarily that it was involved, but only that it was closeby. jim, what are you seeing from the pieces of video here, because we don't have a lot yet, and it is early on in the process, and we can see the vehicles in the streets and lights and not a lot of movement necessarily from law enforcement personnel or pedestrians or those who live in the area, and what are you seeing, jim? >> they are protecting a crime scene. you know, we can't tell exactly from this spot where that little spot is, but they are protecting the crime scene probably off to the left side as we are viewing the cars of the police cars. they are working it forensically. you know, like malcolm said, and

i totally agree, it could be a drunk. it is 12:20 in the morning, and he drove into the pedestrian, and it is not unheard of. i have seen drunks in front of my car put on the blinker, and run into a concrete wall. they do crazy stuff, and that being said, but with the history of the mosque and people don't understand the changes that went on there as malcolm outlined, it is not run by the radicals. it had radical preacher and had moussaoui and richard reid back in the early 2000s, but now, it is a muslim place of worship, and like malcolm said, and this is a great point that he made and i totally agree, the al qaeda and isis will target communities of muslims that won't join their death can cult. so that is a possibility. of course, with the vehicle at attack. and a drunk is a possibility, and also, you know, a radical extremist on the right side who sees all muslims as terrorists

would atta, you know, a large mosque that. i don't make any distinction, and we have radical extremists, and nazis who attack the sikhs, and they can't seem to get any cogent reasoning in the evil de deed. so maybe that kind of attack. but we don't know about the casualties, richard. jour been ta you have been talking to the lucy there at the scene, and if we can get a sense of the a fatale tis and the scene, and if it is a drunk with too many pints of stout then maybe london can take a deep breath, but if it turns out the be terrorists trying to strike the mosque, i

mean, al qaeda and isis-inspired t terrorists trying to strike the mosque, people should take a look out, and see how important it is to muslim community, that they are always trying to back up, you know, the terrorists. it is very strong, but sometimes in the west, we don't see it. the muslim communities don't want these guys and they don't want the death cults around, and they are throwing them out, and condemning them at every turn. there is a muslim student on google who outlines hundreds and hundreds of leaders across the muslim world who condemn terrorism, and h catalogs them, hundreds and hundreds of imams and hundreds of muslims that condemn terrorism that we don't pay attention it to, but it is out there, and they do condemn it. and of course, the temperature in london and in england with manchester, and london bridge and westminster is also ripe for

some type of revenge on attack from extremists who view all of the muslims as terrorists. so that is a possibility as well. and you know, everybody is ramped up over there. as we saw in alexandria, virginia n tv virgin virginia, in the u.s., and people get their head wrapped around different thing, and they lash out to kill people, and so we have to know from the met, what have you got here commanders? if we have been in that meeting and i have been there, and okay, what do we have? don't keep it under wraps if this is the only guy or the clear motive and know some good fact, there is a few things that we may not say, that we need to keep them because the prosecutor needs this them for the case, and put that over here, and put it out there so that the public can know, and we serve them so they can have more information, and we can get information.

the met has to make the decision, and they will be under pressure to release some thing, even though they are tight-lipped, but people across the world want to know so they can help to thwart the next event or understand what it is, an intoxicated driver and everybody can take a deep breath and get back to work. but we just don't know at this early stage. i think that you are doing the right thing to covering it tha way, and u lucy as well, because we just don't know what it is. as analysts, malcolm and i can give you the possibilities of what it could be, what it might be, but only the reporters on the scene can give us good facts. >> that is why it is great to have great minds like your's and malcolm can's 's to help us. and can we remove the banner,

because this picture is coming from one of the lower part, the residents, and this is coming around this incident, jim, it is looking down on the ground, and i can't see so well, but it is the closest picture that we have particularly of a officials there working at least the scene. maybe it is one of the casualties that the london metropolitan police were saying resulted from this vehicle colliding with pedestrians there. and what do you see from this picture? >> yes, the london fire brigade and the ambulance service personnel, and like the param paramedics treating an injured person on the sidewalk is what it looks like from here. they are kneeling down and taking care of the wounds and dealing with a person who is pr probably in a live victim, and going by the facts that we can see, is and treating someone as

opposed to backing away if someone is obviously decreased. so that is what it looks like, and quick response by ambulance and london fire brigade to treat their victims and unfortunately, they have had a lot of experience with this, and they are quick on the feet, and most of the major cities can deal with this the fast, an london fire brigade is a big operation, and they can get there quick, and it looks like they have, and one thing is that if they are wounded and in a city or tha the has good fire, and ambulance service paramedic, and so, even if the wound is serious,you can live if it is not immediate fatal like we have the great military paramedics and naval corpsmen who can trasave someon and so if you are in a store, fight right there and be wounded there in the store parking lot

than 20 miles away, because you can get some help and be saved. so there is always an advantage to having the great fire and police and ambulance service nearby. maybe we can get through this win with no fatalities, and that is would be a good thing. >> and that is the hope as we are watching this incident live at 2:17 on an early monday morning in central london. and malcolm nance, your compatriot, jim, and is still with us. the time line, almost two the hours since the call came in to the london metropolitan police that there is an incident. what is going through the -- what is the process that they are going through, and what step are they on would you say in this incident? >> well, i would say that they are on the third of five step, and the first steps of course would be immediate response.

due to the nature of the westminster attackre we had a man drive down the bridge to hit over 100 people, and the attack, you know, of a few weeks ago that the attack on the market, and the attack on the bridge, and the dlon met, they are just going to be on standby. they are going to put out there their counter terrorism special armed officer squads which are roving squads of, you know, three or four men that are heavily armed, and at the same time they are going to dispatch police, fire and emergency, to the handle the casualty, and when that is the immediate response to take place and they establish the perimeters like jim cavenaugh said -- >> and malcolm, i want to let you and others know that we believe that these are new live pictures coming into us on the screen from the atpn and let you

know what you are seeing as it happens, but please, continue, malco malcolm. >> right, after the initial response, and they have ooeithe gotten the perpetrator and secure the scene, and figure out what initially went on, and there is some video that is probably coming out that is going to be not yet confirm but where the police have arrested one person in the incident very close to this mosque. the prox simity of the mosque, e fact that it occurred during ramadan, and the ramadan meals are happening, and evening prayers, and this could have as jim said, one of two things. it could have been a deliberate attack against muslim individuals or a drunk person who could have carried out a deliberate attack or not even known. so this is when the detectives of scotland yard or the met will come in and interview everybody, and then interview the injure and make a determination if it

is a criminal offense related to terrorism or criminal offense related to dring as thk over th and you might see the video that there have an agitated crowd from the mosque. i have been reading certainly from good sources on twitter that they are very upset with this. and at the stage where met comes in and new scotland yard makes a determination up or down if it was a dlibt rat act of deliberate violence or an accident? >> and this new live video coming in, it appears that the photographer is close to what the line is, and where they are not allowing individuals past. it seems for the most part calm at this moment, though there were some reports from mac bishop there were those who were

upset with this. we can see that there is a large group of the london mett troe poll and the police of the picture in front of the came cameraman, and in front of and in back of the photographer a large group. i wanted to share with, you both malcolm and jim, we had a statement come out from mohammad koz kozbar, the finsbury mosque chairman, and he is tweeting that those affected by the cowardist attack in the finsbury park area. and again, we have some pictures coming in, and this is the tweet that i was just reading for the viewers and those joining us and for you, malcolm nance, as you

were giving us history to this mosq mosque, the finsbury park, and how it stands for the symbol of reformism, and a symbol of moderate views despite the past. i am not sure if you know the video well enough to look at the video right now, malcolm, to recognize where this is specifically. >> well, no, i have been to the mosque, but i don't know the area very well. but the statement is giving me information, because it must have taken place very close to the mosque. because the mosque director is saying that they have brought in casualties, and leading the prayer pool, and i have been in afghanistan and other places where the mosque are the immediate casualty triage areas, because it is large wide open space. they bring in injured people

there, and so it would be natural for them instead of leaving people in the street to h hustle them into the building and put them into the prayer hall hall. >> jim cavenaugh, and you are hearing what malcolm nance is saying, and watching this live video coming in from atpn and you can see the line that we are talking about, and now we have pictures and video from that very point. when the cameraman was panning, the photographers were panning this way, it is unclear as to what this vehicle may be, and it could be that this photographer has aimed down the street where the vehicle may be or where the incident did happen, but it is clearly a point where pedestrians, non-law enforcement can not go by, and you and i were talking about right after, mac bishop was telling us that there was some disgruntled pedestrians and residents at

this line. it appears that there is clearly discussion happening, but we don't know what they are saying. what are you seeing in the pictures? also, the reflection from the chairman of the mosque and his statement, and again, it is saying that his thoughts and prayers are with those who were injured. >> yeah, well, the leader of the mosque, the chairman of the mosque, they went out the help their neighbors and maybe even some of their members to bring them inside as malcolm said to help them if they were injured. they are acting as good citizens of the neighborhood, and what you are seeing here is a police line, and the officers are facing the camera here just at the front of the red emergency van on the right. that is the crime scene looking down the sidewalk, and what they are protecting somewhere down in that area, and maybe on the direct sidewalk or a turn over there, and we are not sure. that is the crime scene they are protecting and the police line where everybody is backed up behind the emergency vehicles. you know, we should all pay

attention to this stuff, bause it it a good thing to do in the new world that we live in. curiosity ist not always the best thing there. is so many follow-on attacks, and we don't know if it is terrorism or not, and let me caveat what i am about to say, but when there is terrorism, so many follow-on attack, and crowds that come to help the the injured or to see what is going on. i would advise against it. go to a safe place or go home or go to the friend's house or some other place, and call your friends, but standing arounded the crime scene, if it is a terrorist attack is a dangerous thing to do. now, if you are engaging in h helping others that is courageous and noble, and we understand that people do that, but if you are there just to be looking, sometimes you want to reconsider that position. but nevertheless, we see this stuff happen. the police officers have to be there and they are keeping a a line to work the scene. they will have to forensically go over the varngs richard, and

even if they know who the guy s and they will get everything out of tlshs and like i say, the wallet first to see if that is him, and look at the picture. it is not that digitally challenging. is that him on the driver's license? yeah, that is him. okay. does hel leive there? send some officers to the house. everything in the truck. a rental truck which we have seen so many attacks that were terrorist-related. his truck? was he alone in the truck? is there any weapon, five, guns in the truck? any materiels that might connect him to any group, jihadi extremism, right wing extremism, or left wing extremism, a mad man, a drunk? all of those answers are going to be inside of the van, and inside of him. they have him. so they can quickly question

him, and he can be questioned quickly at scotland yard, and he is going to be singing like a country music star, i am sure when they sit down at the table to ask him questions. he is going to to be going back to the family, and they will know all about this guy in a matter of hour, and then of course, he is going to be facing the dock at the bailey. he is going to be charged with the even if it is just drunk driving, aggravated assault, manslaughter, could be terror m terrorism, but there is going to be criminal charges no matter the reason when you run over people in a truck like that absent some medical emergency. there is sometimes a medical emergency, and the person is not criminally culpable, and that is also something that we have to say is a possibility as well. a person has a seizure, and runs into the p des triian, and people think it is criminal or

terrorism, but the police know that already i would say. >> and we have been talking about the finsbury park mosque and not only because of the h historic relevance to the neighborhood, but because we are in the middle of ramadan, jim, and there were the night prayers and this happened at the time that the night prayers would be finishing, and lucy kafanov saying that this is the time when many of those who finished the prayers would be going home. so if the vehicle was in that area at that time, it is certainly possible that a good number of them were those who had just finish and just leaving the finsbury park mosque. >> it is a great point, because you have to understand the basic philosophy of al qaeda and isis, a and they not want muslims to live in a normal life. they want the muslims to be in the death cult. they want the world to be against all muslim, and that is why they target muslim, and so,

that the death can cult of al qaeda and isis will attack a mosque that is resisting them. they will attack muslim leaders that won't radicalize or kick radical members out. they have to try to intimidate and scare and dominate, you mow, the muslims first. and we have to understand how that works. >> yes. >> and a mosque like finsbury is under great pressure from the terrorist philosophy on the web, and in the streets, and like malcolm said, this is a mosk that is reformed and the leaderers reject it at every step. so, by being brave and courageous, it is going to make you a target as well. so we have to wait to see what the police can break out overnight to tell us exactly what this is. i think it is really important that they are fact-based, richard, with the citizens of london and england, given what

has gone on in the last few weeks. >> it appears that ewe have los the live pictures coming from the line there, from the crime scene. tara mall er who is from the counter extremism project. tara, you have been watching this video that we have been broadcast, and some of the detail, and you understand that so far the details that are known are few, and they are coming from the london metropolitan police, and it has not changed over the last hour since we have gone on air to kocover this breaking news, aga, of a vehicle striking and colliding with the residents and pedestrians in central london, and one person arrested. that is all we know from the london metropolitan police. what are you seeing in the incident, tara? >> well, obviously, shock and horror at this type of the attack, and once again, pedestrians, and we are not sure

it is a terror attack yet, and potentially an incident that is an accident, but it seems unlikely that it is random given the early eyewitness testimony that it is seemingly potentially targeting the individuals leaving the mosque a area, and we don't know for sure, but it leaves it to believe it is a targeted attack. so that leaves who is the perpetrator, and was this an individual with ties to the t terrorist group or disgruntled in other ways or engaged in incidents of the sort, and we don't have the information yet. we have seen nit man chester with the recent attack and in london, it is going the take a while before the police will release the information. they want to make sure that there is no imminent threat from other individuals, and that the person is alone, and that the area is secure in terms of getting the forensics on the vehicle that seemed to be used in the case, and, you know, this

is an ongoing active investigation, so there is at lot that we don't know, but obviously, thoughts and prayers for those affected be i this, and the mosque aspect of this is looking troublesome, and makes it seem less likely to be an accident, but still a lot that we don't know at this hour. >> and tara, with the information coming in, and new pictures that we are getting at msnbc here from the scene, and we can see the police vehicles, and we can also see many of the law enforcement standing in these pictures here from moments ago. in that no intentionality, and again, you are underlining that, and i was underlining that and so is jim and malcolm on this, and we don't have reports on this being terror-relate and no reports of intention or whether this is some sort of medical accident. a driver perhaps having some sort of emergency or individual who was drivinging under the influence, and those are all

possibilities here. what is something that you are looking for as we are getting more information on the particular incident? >> well, sure. the times square incident that happened recently is a good examp example. if and when the police can rule out it is terrorism, and they see that it is an accident, it is in their interest to calm people down, and if we don't see then that is also a clue, ice because in times square, we got information quickly in that case, because they don't want the people to be fearful if it is a directed attack if it is not. so we need to look for some sort of statement from the police of that sort if it is an accident, and if not, it will proceed as we have seen in the recent cases in london and manchester, and proceed as an investigation with intentionality, and then to what

is the motivation, and who are the individuals and the other stuff that we have seen in the previous terrorist attacks that we have seen. and not the make any conclusions yet, but just like the terrorist groups have been calling for the knife and vehicle attacks, they have been calling for the truck and other attacks, and it is from the material that we have seen from the types of attacks that they are calling on people to do, and again not making the conclusion yet, and this is going to in fact u fall in line if it is an attack from the types of attacks that people have been trueing to do in places like london. >> all right. i just want to read a statement that came out from the london ambulance service, and we have been following them with the statement that was time stamped from 30 minutes ago, and they are saying that the london ambulance service is saying this, we were called at 12:15 a.m., and this is 2:20 local time, and called at 12:15 to reports of a road traffic

collision at seven sisters road which we believe that this video that you are a watching here to be. and we have sent a number of ambulance crews and advanced paramedics and specialist response team s s to the scene. and advanced trauma scene from the london air ambulance have been dispatched by car, and we are working closely with the members of the emergency services at the scene. our priority is to assess the nature and level of the injuries and assure that those in the most need are treated first and then taken to hospital. they were saying that think will be providing more information as they do get it. so they got the call at 12:15 a.m., and the london metropolitan police got the call at 120 a.m., and about five minutes later, and then they began to employ resources to the scene. and tara from the statement, anything that stands out for you? >> well, i think that, i mean, i think that it is a little bit of

time, and we are still waiting for the real official statement, and reading the tweets that have been put out by the metropolitan police in london and still very not really giving much information and no information on the individual, and no physical description of the individual, and no information about the potential motivation, and no information about the characterization of the attack and noting that it is a terrorist attack, and very little information at this point, and so really, we should wait another hour or so. if they don't rule out terrorism, it is likely then that this had some intention behind it, but a if it were a drunk driver or somebody under the influence or with some sort of psychological problem or the series of other accidental causes for example, the police should be a able to determine that fairly quickly, and it is in their interest to release that fairly quickly. so i think that if we don't see that, then the shift to the motivational and intentional attack is looking more likely in combination with the eyewitness

occurring and in the area that have people departing at this hour from the mosque. and it is late sunday evening, and the reason that it is there for the people with the initial eyewitness reports that it is initial, and it is a few witnesses that have been saying that it is outside of a mosque coming out of at that time. >> i'd like to bring in mac bishop, nbc news producer on the scene fors, and mac as you have heard tara saying that we are talking about the finsburyark mosque and long-standing member of the community, and in the celebration of ramadan and after evening prayers and members of the mosque are leaving and going to break fast, and then to have the iftar meal. for this part of the community, it has to be absolutely as indicated by the chairman of the mosque there, mac, very upsetting. he was saying that our thoughts

and prayers are with those who were injure and affected by the cowardly attack in finsbury park area, and many casualties in the floor. one of the residents there of this mosque a prominent one, and longstanding and the other residents and those pedestrians who said that they were fairly disgruntled and what you seeing there at the scene? >> yes, richard. what i am seeing is the crowd continues to grow at the police cordon, and a short moment ago i witnessed a tense exchange of a number of young men who were y trying to get past the police cordon and they were concerned about family members who may have been injured, and they wanted to go to see if they could reach the family member, and the police were not letting them through. they were a able to de-escalate the situation, and as i said, the crowd continues to grow. a short time ago the police moved a number of large what i could only describe as riot

trucks or the paddy wagons to block off the streets and the view of the incident where we are standing. the police are continuing the try to de-escalate the situation, but the crowd is continuing the grow at the site of the incident. >> a so, mac, you may be close to the scene of the individuvid we are taking in, and what we can see in the picture are three police vans moving and readjusting, and there seem ts be a bridge delightly behind them above with some graffiti on it. we also have a line of police officers standing shoulder to shoulder. are you that close to the or cordon? >> yes, richard. that is precisely where i am standing a jound described exactly the scene that i am looking at. as you are seeing, they are moving the police vehicles around the line of police, backing up the police cordon,

aed and they have been here since i have arrived about 30 minutes after the reported incident, and they have not moved since that time. >> and has the number of law enforcement of ambulances and medical personnel, has that increased or decreased? >> i have not seen any further ambulances moving into the area, richard. i have seen a number of police vehicles moving through the cordon and including a number of unmarked vehicles, and those may have been the crime scene investiga investigators and it is not clear to me what they were, and the police here, again, they are not giving much information, and they are patiently trying to explain to the crowds that unfortunately, they cannot pass and they don't have any further information to share with them at this time. >> as you have been looking down this road to the crime scene, what have you been able to see far ther down, much farther down? >> unfortunately, richard, it is

difficult to to see much. there are a number of uniformed police officers in group, and beyond that, there is not much visible from where i am stand standing. >> we have been talking about one of the, and when we, you and i just began this conversation, the latest so far tonight, and it is a prinent member of this community, and this is a finsbury park mosmosque, and wh does that stand in relation to this home? >> if you are standing near the graffiti, the mosque is just about 50 meters to the left of that. it is just around the corner. there have been a number of individuals from a muslim community organization that have been walking around, and they have been handing out water, and trying to talk to people, to try to control the situation. very close to mosque. >> the concern is certainly the number of casualties, right? and we don't know the number

yet. we don't know the severity yet, and we know that there are casualties, and injuries i should say related to the collision according to the london metropolitan police, and that is all we know at the moment. have you seen ambulances come and go either from this end which we are looking at the live pictures again where you are at, mac bishop, but potentially leaving a at the other end of the road? >> earlier, richard, i did notice a number of ambulances moving away from the scene in that direction, and since that time, i have not seen any ambulances moving in that direction to or from the scene. >> at the moment, and again, it is 2:42 a.m. in london. it is about two hours and 20 minutes or 2:30 since they were alerted the london metropolitan police, and the london ambulance service when they got the call they are saying of the reports of the road traffic collision at

seven sisters road. th sent a number of ambulance crew crews there, a advanced paramedic, and also, air ambulance and a team there from the trauma team that were also deployed. lucy kafanov, and your colleague, and my colleague there at the london bureau who said that she lives nearby that neighborhood, and had to pass through this neighborhood on the way to the bureau, and heard helicopters or a hel koicopter above. what are you seeingt that moment? >> at this moment, richard, no helicopters in the area. there were one helicopter or possibly two moving around and circling over the area, and obviously, reports quite early in the incident of air ambulances being used to transport the wounded.

i did not witness that, and i cannot confirm that report. >> and mac bishop is right there at the police cordon and the crime scene believed to be right behind the three police vans. we don't necessarily understand the severity of this vehicle collision with pedestrians in the area, but we do know at this moment, that it is seeming to stabilize at this end of the crime scene. mac, can you give us a general sense of the size of the crowd on your side, and then the size of law enforcement on the cordon? we have the static shot from the photographer that is really just sort of focused on the three vans. >> yes, richard. i would say that when i rst arrived, maybe two dozen people gathered here. there are now probably close to 100 people gathered outside of the cordon that seems to be a misk of the mosquegoers and concerned relatives of the

victims in addition to gawkers and of course, the media has shown up in force, and to me, it is visible on the other side of the cordon and obviously a lotter more police down the road, and police vehicles are stationed behind the intersection as well behind the view that you are looking at trying to coordinate the traffic. >> mac bishop, standby. my colleague ari melber who is going to be picking up the coverage for now. i'm richard lui. >> thank you, richard lui. i'm ari melber, and 9:45 p.m. on the east coast and more importantly 2:45 a.m. in london where there are reports of one arrest and multiple casualties after a van hit a crowd in london near the finsbury mosque located in north london that is known as both a source of terror incident s

incidents in the past and in the sense that richard reid the shoe bo bomber and zachariah mew zwere nated. and as you is seen, some of the coverage here on msnbc, with the yawning time gap over an hour now, it is possible, possible that the gam suggesti gap sugge something simple in which we would have expected the authorities to have briefed. what, we don't know at this time. the theories are a potential attack, potential hate crime given the month of ramadan and

the proximity of the mosque or a number of even wall tis and as we stressed throughout the coverage, there is not much we know so far in the coverage. and in the context of the other international events including some terrorists in the last month, this is a city on edge. malcolm, what would you emphasize as i stressed an unfolding and largely unknown situation. >> my first point of emphasis is that the mett troe poll and the police will act swiftly to find out what went on here. we know some of the particulars that could signal points for

people to make a suggestion, but we don't know. the mosque was an extremist mosque in the early 1990s, but they have since reformed. so we don't know if it is an attack on that mosque, because it is a main mosque in that neighborhood, and it is a diverse muslim group of people from south asia and the arabian peninsula, and all of whom are british it is is zens. these are not foreigners for the most part. it is their place of worship. we could have an incident which could be just related to drinking on a sunday night since the incident occurred very late. or we could have somebody who did a targeted attack against muslims who could have been a nationalist or the anti-immigrant extremist. we just don't know. we don't even know the actual personnel or the casualty count at this point, but it is noteworthy that the british, and

whereas we are seeing far less of the peshgs tfos the counter terrorism, the special armed s.w.a.t.-type officers who respond to the counter terrorist, and we are seeing less of them, and more local precincts of the met have sent a number of an tie protest officers to keep the perimeter. we saw a contingent and not the ones in the video who were actually carrying the riot gear. so they are more concerned with the civil disorder at this point. but, more information is yet to come. >> you mentioned some of the history, zachary moussaoui and richard reid i would say now over 15 years ago known to frequent the mosque, and then some of the notoriety in reading up on this, i noticed that there is a cleric a abu al mew sar ri

who is reviled for his radical views, and the mosque was raided by police in 2003 and then according to the accounts that i have read, the word i saw was t re-claimed by the local muslim community and seen as really a changing what it was about and changing its orientation and dealing with or confronting its history. so there's so much more we don't know tonight and we're going to continue to get updates from the seen. but i wonder if you could walk us through what we do know about, including the change many in the peaceful western community has called upon for some of these religious groups. >> well, you're absolutely right. your history is spot on. in 2002 this place was note worthy for having produce richard reed, the shoe bomber

who tried to come to the united states. he wasn't iraqi or syrian. he was a brit, and he still tried to blow up an aircraft coming to the united states. but that mosque had issues. way back when i was doing the al qaeda mission back in the 1990s, the mosque was note wurkty because of the extremism but soon after the egyptian cleric that ran that mosque, the community took it back. they got rid of this cult-like extremism. the board erased all of the people, everyone that was associated with its past was removed. and it's been actually a center and a hub for what we call counter extremist ideology. and that community, like i said widely diverse, as diverse as the muslim world.

it's not pakistani. it's every muslim in that neighborhood, that is their center of worship. and it really is a hallmark just how wonderful it is when the community comes back and stops this extremism. that would have made them a target for people who are islamic extremists idelogs like isis. >> malcolm, stay with us. i'm going to bring into the conversation tarra, who joins us by phone and is part of an extremist expertise group. and tarra toosh to state the obvious, and i will be echoing throughout our coverage woo, we don't know. this might not be a terrorist attack, bu based on your knowledge of that field, what we're learning how police are

approaching it thus far, what can you tell us? >> sure. obviously it's still early to make an official conclusion about this. but it's been some time now. we haven't heard police issue a statement it was an accident. we haven't heard police issue something that was sort of calm the community or individuals in london and the media who obviously has their attention on it. in the square when it was an accident, police came out pretty quickly to rule it out. the longer we don't hear them rule it out, the more it bkz this was some sort of specific attack targeting individuals and targeting them as they were coming out of the mosque. again, still too early to say for certain. obviously, very concerning this comes on the heels of two other

awful, horrific attacks in london, manchester, and london. and i think right now we need to wait and see. but eyewitness reports are saying it was targeting potential people leaving the mosque. and i think we'll have to see about the individual, the spect's motivations or what the background of the individual was. >> right. and you mentioned authorities haven't briefed -- as you're alluding to it is common for them to sometimes say their investigating something as a traffic matter or as an accident. which doesn't mean they're issuing any investigative conclusion, but it certainly can be designed to calm some concerns special in big cities that are so well-known to be potential hubs for terror attacks. that is not something they've indicated as one way or another.

i have an update here, and i want to get both of you to respond to it. an update here stateside in new york. obviously, the focus here is where these attacks occurred. but for our viewers on the east coast, somewhat a late night indication telling nbc news they will send officers and quote have an increased presence at new york city mosque as what they describe following a precaution. so malcolm wherein nypd not weighing in what obviously has occurred but choosing to tell new yorkers that they're aware, they're alert and explicitly they're going to be in full presence near mosques tomorrow. >> well, that is an interesting piece of news, which gives us a key intelligence indicator here. the new york city counter terrorism forces, their intelligence is brilliant. i mean it is world class.

almost intelligence community level because they have many officers, ex-officers of the cia who work there. by them actually taking precautions at mosque and the united states, that's almost and it's not confirmed but almost an indicator they received hard intelligence that that mosque was targeted. now, that remains to be seen. we'll wait for a statement coming from the met, but it's a good precaution. what we've seen in incidents like this many extremist no matter what their gender, race, nationality, they will copycat. it's unfortunately but we have a saying in counter terrism, and i've said this many points over 35 years, the second attack is always americans. and we often see people mimic these incidents back in the united states. and i think it's just good sense

that new york city's excellent counter terrorism forces are going to provide that level of support interest the community. not only as a show of confidence but also because they're aware of what's going on in london a little more than we are. >> malcolm, they're speaking about some of the clues here. we are covering what has been described broadly as an incident in london occurring just over an hour ago. it is approaching 3:00 a.m. there london time near the finsbury park mosque, a mosque that has a history many years ago of being a place where some convicted terrorist extremists gathered. authorities not describing yet whether this was accidental or deliberate or getting to the question of anybody's mind could

this be terrorist related or a hate crime given the recent attacks in westminster and manchester. i want to bring back in our reporting jim cavinau, a former federal agent. jim, i want to drill down what we are seeing on these shots. viewers are looking at officers that look stationary, very calm, spread out in in a perimeter of vehicles, which we haven't seen a lot of movement from them. and obviouy the flashing lights and little bit of concern or mild chaos you can see in an incident like that. although i would stress that the crowd from what we can see on cameras has been relatively

peaceful and uneventful from the incident of what we're told has called casualties, plural. >> it looks like good policing. it looks like the metropolitan officers made one arrest. we saw them take a man back behind the van. it could be someone who wouldn't disperse or obey the order to get back. they seem pretty calm. i'm sure they want to do that as quickly as they can, disperse, and then get the families of the victims notified. they're going through all his stuff, cellphones, computers, whatever he had with him in the vehicle, talking to him, finding out the motive. you know, we just don't know why this happened. we've talked about all the possibilities that are still out there. intoxicated driver, of course a

medical event, a vehicle accident or a director terrorist attack from isis or al qaeda-style adherence who may want to attack that mosque because those citizens in that mosque reject them. but also, ari, i've had cases here in the u.s. where we arrested three nazis for fire bombing the islamic center. and one of the guys had a swastika tattooed on his chest the size of hubcap. anthey were attacking because they viewed the center as terrorists. it was just good citizens trying to do the right thing. and extremists with hate in their hearts attacked them. it can