sanctions. i've been to sudan. i've seen the devastation with my own eyes. mr. president, do not let this brutal dictator off the hook. you can prevent this one. keep those sanctions on. thank you for watching. i'll see you back here tomorrow at 6:00 p.m. eastern. "hardball" with chris matthews starts right now. trump's mouthpiece. let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews in washington. donald trump's lawyer spent the last -- or the past 48 hours trying to convince the country the president didn't say something he the actually said. president trump tweeted friday, "i am being investigated for firing the fbi director." according to the president's lawyer, however, jay sekulow, the president is not under investigation, and today he continued to push back against the reports from "the washington post," nbc news, and others that special counsel, robert mueller, is investigating whether

president trump obstructed justice. according to sekulow, that's just a narrative being pushed by the media and james comey. >> the only reason we're talking about this is because of what? a leak from "the washington post" -- >> that is absolutely not true. that's not why i'm asking you -- >> you didn't let me finish my sentence! >> go ahead. >> and because james comey raised it up in his testimony. he said, i'm sure the special ko counsel is going to do it. i wouldn't exactly call james comey a credible witness on this matter. >> sekulow appeared on multiple sunday shows trying to push a simple narrative. let's watch. >> the president is not under investigation by the special counsel. the president, as james comey said in his testimony and as we know as of today, the president has not been and is not under investigation. i want to be very clear here and very direct. the president has not been and is not under investigation. i want to be very clear about this. the president is not and has not been under investigation. the president is not under investigation and has not been. >> the president said, "i am

being investigated" in a tweet. you're saying the president when he said that was not accurate? >> no, the president wasn't -- it was 141 characters. there's a limitation on twitter, as we all know. >> wow, that's a high-priced lawyer. sekulow argued the tweet from president trump was actually a response from "the washington post" report that quoted five sources saying the president was under investigation. unfortunately for sekulow, that narrative seemed to come apart, it really did, at one point, during an interview on fox news on sunday, when he acknowledged, in fact, this is unbelievable television, the president is, in fact, being investigated. so on the same shows, a bunch of them that he was on to say that he was not being investigated, listen to him. >> the president takes action based on numerous events, including recommendations from his attorney general and the deputy attorney general's office. he takes the action that they also, by the way, recommended, and now he's being investigated by the department of justice

because the special counsel under the special counsel regulations reports still to the department of justice, not an independent counsel. so he's being investigated for taking the action that the attorney general and deputy attorney general recommended him to take by the agency who recommended the termination. >> you stated some facts. first of all, you've now said that he is being investigated afteraying that you -- >> no -- >> you just said, sir -- >> no, he's not being investigated. >> you just said that he's being investigated. >> no, chris, i said -- let me be crystal clear so you completely understand. we have not received nor are we aware of any investigation of the president of the united states. >> sir, you just said two times that he's being investigated. >> no. the context of the tweet -- i just gave you the legal theory, chris, of how the constitution works. if, in fact, it was correct, that the president was being investigated, he would be investigated for taking action that an agency told him to take. >> if you believe that lawyer, you're crazy. sekulow later conceded he cannot read the mind of mueller to know for sure whether donald trump is

under investigation. but then this happened. >> as a matter of law, does the president think that he can be indicted under the constitution? >> the president -- i haven't had that conversation with the president, but the president can't be indicted under the constitution for the activities alleged in something like this. of course not. >> why is that? >> because there's not an investigation. and there's -- >> you don't know whether there's -- oh, boy, this is weird. you don't know whether there's an investigation. you just told us that. >> chris -- >> i'm joined right now by "usa today's" susan page, "the new york times's" glenn thrush, and "the washington post's" phillip rutger. i want your reaction. i've never seen a guy -- i've heard of the full ginsburg, do five shows. i've never heard a guy give two 180-degrees contradictory statements in a matter of moments with chris wallace. >> but in only one of a series of interviews. >> why did he break out and say, yeah, he's being investigated, and said so twice? >> you got me. >> glenn, does he got you? >> let me make this perfectly

clear -- >> crystal clear! >> he's playing tom cruise in "a few good men." >> sean spicer must have sat and watched that and said, i do much better than this! spicer at least has his stock line, you know, the tweet speaks for itself. he doesn't say that, but the tweet speaks for itself, right. >> what do you make of it, phil? >> the fact of the matter, chris, is he is being investigated. the president is being investigated. that's what my colleagues a to the "washington post" have been reporting since last week. the special counsel is looking into this. just because sekulow and the legal team have not been given an official notice that he's under investigation doesn't mean that the special counsel -- >> let's go back to a few theories. i counted four reasons to try to figure out why this guy, sekulow, was sicced out there as a mouthpiece for trump and why he was told to say, even though he couldn't stick to it, that he wasn't under investigation. one, it's possibly true, he's not -- possibly. everything's possible. look at the jury up there in pennsylvania. anything's possible. number two, he wants to push back from it, because it's a better position to not being investigated, because it makes

you look a little bit guilty. three, he's trying to trigger some crazy reaction from the prosecutor's office. something leaked to one of you guys or something that will make them look overwrought or whatever. or the last one, trump likes to hear a guy on television say he's innocent. he just likes to hear that and he paid a guy to say it. >> and i think -- >> do you think he's doing it just to fluff trump? >> i think it was an audience of one. i think he was speaking to an audience of one. >> that's a lot of money to pay. >> well, if he's not being investigated, why are all these lawyers are getting hired? >> he's lawyered up. i want to get to that question. why is he going to lawyering rather than defending himself politically. why is he going and turning -- because the bar's so high for impeachment that if he can just stick to the law and ignore all the misbehavior, failure to be a president of the united states, as we expect him to be, if he can change the topic to terrible behavior as president, can we put him in jail for this? he can win that argument. >> chris, let's not forget. sekulow is the guy who came out last weekend, i think, and suggested that the president was thinking about a firing mueller

as the special counsel, right? the problem is, and we saw this when kasowitz gave his performance at the press club, which i was fortunate enough to attend, the line between lawyer and flack in this case is really thin, sometimes, as to be nonexistent. >> it sounded fllike flack yesterday. >> saw something really interesting today that my paper reported. kushner, and kushner has essentially been the most canny in terms of getting out ahead of this. he is considering hiring the abbe lowell, who you know quite well, as a potential criminal defense lawyer. not saying there'll be a criminal case brought. but i think -- >> who wants to hire abbe lowell? >> jared kushner is considering -- >> i thought he had jamie grilligril gorelick? >> he's considering adding him to the team or firining gorelic. >> i think they should have

stuck to the nepotism law in the beginning. the reason for nepotism laws, you avoid problems like this. >> the other thing is, and phil can back me up on this, i don't think there's a significant enough appreciation especially at the mid- and lower levels in the white house what the investigation really means. i don't think the president is necessarily taking it all that serious, in terms of his legal team. >> and the president's treating it like a political campaign. the approach from the lawyers is not a legal response, it's a political response. it's to discredit the special counsel and the integrity of the investigation, but it'ses s als discredit the news media that are reporting details and news and scoops about the investigation by talking about anonymous sources. >> what about newt gingrich? who always seems to come back like the joker, back saying the president can't be indicted for abuse of authority, abuse of office, or even obstruction of justice. because for him to do it, it's like nixon talking. if i do it, it's legal. >> i think there is a legal debate in the view of the department of justice before this administration was that you can't indict the president, because if there's something the president's done, that is so terrible, the remedy is

impeachment. >> let's take a look at it. here's trump ally newt gingrich defending the president friday, saying the mere fact that he is president means that he cannot obstruct justice. this is different than saying he can't be indicted. let's see what he says, how he says it. >> technically, the president of the united states cannot obstruct justice. the president of the united states is the chief executive officer of the united states. he wants to fire the fbi director. all he's got to do is fire him. >> well, back in 1998, when newt gingrich voted to impeach president bill clinton, partly on charges of obstruction of justice, he had a very different take on the issue. let's watch. >> what you have lived through for 2 1/2 long years is the most systemic, deliberate obstruction of justice cover-up and effort to avoid the truth we have ever seen in american history. and the time has come to say to the democrats and to say to the president, quit undermining the law in the united states. >> you know, tim russert, the

great man himself, and he was great, he would always keep a manila folder here and wait well into the interview and just open it up and say, you said, let's take a look it, and go to the tapes. and it doesn't seem to matter anymore, guys. you can say that newt is speaking is with a forked tongue. it doesn't seem to matter. you can say a president can't obstruct justice, he just said he could. but doesn't anything hold true for more than a couple of minutes anymore? >> well, it may be true that newt gingrich isn't held to account for these conflicting statements, but the fact is that we have a legal system that is to some degree impervious to this political debate. and i think that's what a lot of people are counting on, that there's going to be the special counsel is going to investigate. it's going to find what it's going to find. and we'll see what it is. and some of this political debate is either irrelevant or even harmful to the president's case. there are cases when the president -- >> will it matter in a course of justice and a house of representatives if an impeachment proceeding begins in the house judiciary committee and they're presented with this kind of evidence of dishonesty? does it matter that trump has

been saying five different things on one subject? >> well, some think the lester holt interview could rebound against the president's interests, because there he says -- >> russia. >> he said the decision to fire comey was about russia. >> that sounds like obstruction of justice. yeah? >> look who's defending the president on-air. people who are paid to do it. at the moment, we don't have that many surrogates. newt gingrich who appears to have floated from the either down in front of a camera to defend the president, he's hawking a trump book. newt gingrich has, you could argue, a financial interest in aligning himself -- >> he's been appointed ambassador of the vatican. these are interesting sociometric overlays. >> and people paid to defend the president at the white house won't even answer questions about the russia matter, because they're worried about their own legal exposure. they're worried about saying something that's not true. >> there's news out tonight. michael flynn, according to mcclatchy, quote, former

national security adviser michael flynn appears to have failed to report a 2015 trip to saudi arabia on behalf of a u . u.s./russian business plan to build nuclear reactors today. this guy is a busy little bee, isn't he, flynn? and he's so busy, he can't even remember how many clients he's got overseas, when the one thing you have to sign in any kind of national security document or check is how many foreign bosses do you have. because it's nice to know that when you put somebody in charge of our country's security. your thoughts? >> well, my thought is -- >> i mean, he's got the turkeys, the saudis, the russians. >> so if you don't report all of this, you just assume it will never come out? a lot of people know it, right? your companies know it, your enemies know it. >> double-entry bookkeeping, it shows up. glenn? >> i don't know when his birthday is, but i'm going to get him a day planner. >> you know, it's a problem for trump, because the more this guy gets in deep with dishonesty,

these are all felony charges, the deeper the evidence he has to produce to save his butt. he has to come up with something that will really tell the prosecutors and the congress, if i give you this, i can go home tonight and have dinner with my family. if not, i go to some horrible place for san quentin for about two decades. >> i would say it's probably closer tconnecticut. >> maybe closer to someone in pennsylvania. lewisberg. >> look, i thi the thing with flynn and you hear this from the lawyers when they speak more candidly, people are worried he's already flipped through the congressional committees. and i think anyone who had sb r interactions with flynn. and flynn was essentially hired by jared and ivanka who asked him what job he wants and he said national security. >> let's go through what's left. people jump on me because they say i'm exonerating trump mia. i'm trying to get to the heart of this thing. comey in his testimony said,

it's separate from the russia investigation. he's not involved in the russia investigation with possible collusion? and trump said that manafort was sort of a satellite out there, somebody you can throw under the bus. and i said, who's left? i couldn't think of anybody. it couldn't be carter page, because i didn't think he was serious enough to do anything bad or good in life. and i didn't think it was going to be roger stone because he's always sort of vaguely flying around any trouble area. but then i didn't think of cu kushner, if there's one person trump would go down for, it's his son-in-law, because of his daughter. he's given the middle east to cover himself. where is the fertile area where there could have been collusion, through what person? what person? susan? what's left? i'm just -- i'm -- i'm not clearing, i'm trying to figure out, where is the area that should be investigated now. >> in terms of trump's -- >> who was the surrogate who dealt with the russians? >> i think the issue is, you have a lot of disconnected

threads here. the one thing we know is that the russians really wanted to have an influence and they tried to exert influence. it's clear that they had some interaction, certainly with flynn, certainly with manafort, perhaps with stone. >> influence with -- >> influence in terms of having relationships, meeting people, getting hookups. >> because they were paying their way. >> right. the one thing is we have two sides -- i view it as two sides of a bridge that are moving towards each other. you have the russians attempting to reach, and then you have the questions about kushner's business dealings and for instance, his financing of 666 fifth avenue, the kushner properties -- >> where did that money come from? >> the belief is through a number of banks including a lot of chinese investors. a lot of these are opaque questions, they could turn out to be innocuous questions. but we have the russian push end of this very well established. the question, i think, the huge unanswered questions are in terms of the business relationships and in terms of the political motivations of people higher up the food change than roger stone. >> but doesn't there have to be an overlay between the money and

the politics and affecting u.s. policy? in other words, abusing your office and position politically to make money? >> this is why with these congressional -- we had better make sure, and i'm sure everyone agrees, that these congressional investigations are really in a lot of ways are as fundamentally important as the fbi. >> let's hope they get to the pay dirt. thank you, susan page. thank you, glenn tluhrush and phillip rutger. why is rural america so far sticking with president trump? it's an interesting political question, don't you think? that's ahead. plus, dirty tricks down in georgia. take a look at a new ad a republican group is running ahead of tomorrow's special congressional election down there it. it exploited las week's shooting that injured republican congressman steve scalise. let's watch. >> now the unhinged left is endorsing and applauding shooting republicans. when will it stop? it won't if jon ossoff wins on tuesday. >> that's pretty dirty.

the latest on that race being watched nationally. and mitch mcconnell is pushing for a break on health care. so far there's no legislation, no committee hearings, no score from the congressional budget office, but they want to do this fast. and democrats have taken over the floor of the senate in protest right now against the quickieness of this thing. first of all, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you won't like it. this is "hardball," where the action is. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. explore your treatment options with specialists who treat only cancer. every stage... every day....

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welcome back to "hardball." despite his embattled protest, so far, president trump has retained residual strength from a core base of voters. a report by dan balz in "the washington post" today reports the depth of support for trump among rural americans. noting the more sparsely populated areas of the country form the heart of trump nation, and continue to provide majority support for a president who has faced near constant controversy and discord. according to a new "washington post" kaiser foundation poll, the widening political divide in this country falls largely along geographic lines. while the president is facing a net negative overall approval rating, a majority of americans living in rural areas say they approve of the job he's doing. it's the same people who trump often referred to as the forgotten americans on the campaign trail. let's watch. >> we're fighting for every forgotten man, woman, and child of this nation.

i'm asking you to dream big. we used to drinking beam. >> i see you, i hear you, and i will never, ever let you down. i promise. we will never let you down. >> i will be a voice for all of the forgotten americans in this country. i will be your voice. i'm going to be your voice. >> well, among those who turned out for him last november, concern over trump's signature issue of immigration remains high. six in ten rural trump voters say the immigrants are a burden on this country, because they take jobs away from deserving americans. i'm joined right now by republican strategist, john brabender and democratic pollster, cornell belcher. it does seem to me, and as much as i work with so many progressives i like them and i listen to their thoughts and think about the same things, yet i know from my own paeeople, the are people who like trump, and we keep losing sight of them, on the east coast, they're there. and the issues that drove them

into trump's camp, the loss of manufacturing jobs and stupid-ass wars are still there in their minds. and the hatred of hillary. that seemed to be kept in their heads and in their mouth s longr than i thought. so right near the election, what's wrong with that? and i was hearing, i hate hillary. no exact reason. ju ptf it. is that all still there? is that why trump -- every couple of weeks, trump takes a cheap shot at hillary. a late hit, few yo will. >> it doesn't hurt. >> and he does it regularly enough for me to say, it doesn't have anything to do with the conversation, just to remind these voters what say they're on. >> you say on the show a lot, it was a binary choice, not just donald trump. and among -- >> only two choices. >> and among this group, it could not have been a bigger divide in the choices. >> you mean, they might have voted for joe biden? >> they didn't vote for mitt romney in the numbers they voted for donald trump. which i thought, places like ohio, if you look at the difference, it's amazing.

where you've got to be careful -- >> a 36% spread for trump in those areas over hillary. >> but it's not geography as much as it is culture. what they believe, what they care about is different. the second big difference, too, is how they get their news is different. they are much more reliant on local news, local newspapers. >> but local news don't cover national events. >> they do, but don't editorialize as much as -- >> most local pages are a combination of wire service copy. they can't afford a copy in washington. >> they come up with the analysis themselves. they will get the news, but they're not listening to talking heads all the time telling them what they should believe. >> you're talking off your head right now. the talking head phrase always bothers me. is there another part of your body you would like to talk out of? go ahead, cornell. >> this kaiser poll is an important poll. >> can you believe what he just said about people locally? local newspaper, local tv affiliate? >> i do believe, and i want to

double down on this point about culture and i want to go after -- the democrats' blind spot here. look, what this poll shows is that there's not a connection between the jobs and economic concerns and their support for trump. this poll has found it and other polls have found it. it is about culture when you look at how concerned they are about immigration, the changing faces of immigration and this assault on christianity. that's what's driving this conversation. >> they want the america they grew up in. >> and there's a huge disconnect here with democrats, when donald trump says, i'm going to give you your country back, and democrats say, i'm going to raise your wage, right? democrats are disconnected from the cultural and aspirational element here. and until we start having that conversation about what america has to look like coming into the future, democrats will continue to struggle with rural americans. >> let me try something with you, both of you. i think you'll agree with this. hollywood, the news business is very careful about gender identity, about sexuality. ewe are very careful with the language we use. very careful about the lbgt.

do you ever see that same sensitivity about white working class people, i grew up in a country that made fun of those people. archie bunker was that guy. hollywood greatly enjoyed making fun of this guy. he was probably irish, but they didn't say so. he lived in queens. i think hollywood made a point of enjoying that difference in a way that got to them. and they said, okay, do you want me to be archy bunker, i'm voting republican and sticking with you guys. >> i think i would be careful to equate that with archie bunker. >> archie bunker is a fictitious character. who created him? >> i understand that, but we lose the context within the beltway of what these real people are like. >> i'll give you one really good stat from the poll that they releed today. 64% of the rural voters said that the govnment programs that are there to help people either hurt them or do nothing. 64% said they're more likely -- so -- >> a lot of people believe thal we welfare stunts your growth economically. a lot of people believe that. >> i think it's an

oversimplification of archie bunker. i come with a generation of people who live with minh centrmin minhstrales. we have to take their concerns about their fears about changes america -- >> making fun of black people having people with big white mouth, that kind of stuff. having black people play black people as -- and white people play, that was awful. >> i think there's a world of difference between the two. >> how so? >> one -- >> in terms of the person -- >> one is completely degrading of their intellect. you can watch archie bunker and actually see some intellect there and some understanding there. as opposed to the degradation of black images -- >> you beat me on that. i've been watching these all my life. you're watching a hitchcock movie, the only black face is the pullman cart guys. and sometimes the only black face is the guy scared to death of the ghost. >> and that's my point, it's

dehumanizing. >> you're right. but it still offends the person being targeted. >> don't forget, this is the same group that president obama said, this is the group that's clinging to their guns and their religion. >> and hillary said deplorables. >> and your guy said 47%. >> but they celebrate that. their celebrate their religion. >> of course, i go to church. i don't like that stuff, putting down people who go to church, as if it's some sort of -- >> and we shouldn't! >> but we spend a lot of time talking about the concerns of rural voters and we should be concerned about rural voters. but also let's understand that hillary did not lose this election because of a growth in the rural vote. >> there's 26% increase. >> because she lost -- if she performed with millennials the same percentages that barack obama performed, she wins all four -- >> that's a good political argument, cornell. >> it's the math. >> no, the other way is also true. >> it's the math! he has less of a percentage than mitt romney does -- >> why did he -- why did he get

such a better republican vote than anyone else that got in the republican column? >> he is giving them exactly what they want. and that is their country back. >> yeah, his message was better. but, hillary is the quintessential of what they don't like about -- >> but he also did worse among better-educated white voters. so, it's a wash. yes! he did worse among better-educated younger -- >> all right, hillary is supposed to carry the suburbs of philly and she lost -- she only lost by 180, won by 180. the numbers were off in the suburbs and in the rural areas. >> it was off with -- yeah, but she still wins if she holds the obama coalition. if she performed -- take michigan, for example. >> you're just making an argument. >> if she gets what barack obama -- >> you're trying to get more young people to vote. it's a good cause. it's not the reason why she lost. >> yes, it is! >> but trump won ohio, florida, wisconsin, pennsylvania -- >> real states. >> yes, yes, and you know what he got in florida? he got 49%. you know what mitt romney got in

florida? he got 49% and lost. it wasn't about what he did, it was about what democrats did not do. >> tse are some pretty big states to win. >> 49% is math is ma. >> thank you, john brabender and cornell belcher. get 'em where you can get 'em. up next, dirty tricks in georgia. republicans must be getting desperate over tomorrow's special election, why else are we seeing an ad accusing democrats shecheering last week shooting at that baseball practice. this is "hardball," where the action is. business was built with passion... but i keep it growing by making every dollar count. that's why i have the spark cash card from capital one. with it, i earn unlimited 2% cash back on all of my purchasing. and that unlimited 2% cash back from spark means thousands of dollars each year going back into my business... which adds fuel to my bottom line. what's in your wallet?

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i'm melisilissa rehberger. here's what's happening. otto warmbier has died. in a statement, president trump condemned the brutality of the north korean regime and offered his condolences to the family. the united states is also condemning the deadly van attack near a london mosque targeting muslim worshippers. and sources say paris police were the intended targets in a car attack today. the motorist was killed after plowing his vehicle into a police convoy, heading down the champs-elysees. back to "hardball." isn't it great, the communist north koreans let the kid come home to die? what a terrible, terrible tragedy for that family, all the way through. a bad, bad government. anyway, welcome back to "hardball." democrats are looking to put a big win on the board in tomorrow's runoff for georgia

congressional district. the race pits john ossoff against karen handel. a real clear politics average of most recent polls as ossoff up at 49, handel at 47, well within the margin of error. republicans have held the sixth congressional district for nearly 40 years until tom price vacated the seat to become secretary of health and human services. the unprecedented nature of the race has become a proxy for the nation's political divide. an organization called principle pac, unlikely, which is supporting karen handel released an ad linking jon ossoff to last week's shooting in virginia that left four wounded, including majority whip steve scalise. let's watch this terrible ad. [ gunfire ] >> now the unhinged left is endorsing and applauding shooting republicans. when will it stop? it won't if jon ossoff wins on tuesday. >> well, both handel and ossoff have condemned the ad, but over the weekend, "the washington post" quoted the chairman of the

republican party in georgia's 11th district as saying, quote, i think the shooting is going to win the election for us with, because moderates and independents in this district are tired of left-wing extremism. well, he later apologized for making those remarks. for the latest on what's happening in georgia, i'm joined by greg bluestein. you know, in nba basketball or college basketball, it seems like you can tell the team that's losing because they start to foul, anything to get the ball back. and i think that metaphor is rich here. why would any ally of handel put out an ad that's so obviously unfair? >> probably to get attention and to get some fund-raising for that super pac. both candidates and campaigns have disavowed that ad and said they have nothing to do with it, but it remains the talk of the town in the sixth district. and the beginning of it were those jarring gunshots, really gets your attention. >> it seems to me from an outsider, and just check me on this, that the only way that handel can win, coming up from the pack of having gotten the

plurality of the republican said in the primary, the only way she can win is to have a tremendous upsurge of total voters. because you have to have voters who didn't vote the first time around, because they almost gave it 50% to ossoff. so, is that what's happening now? are there a lot more voters to show up that could help handel win? >> yeah, i mean, the big turnout, that's the big question, is how much turnout will help karen handel? because we're already looking at probably well above 200,000 voters, well above the april 18th round. >> wow. >> yeah. 140,000 voters have already cast ballots, which is by far the biggest in the special election. and handel is really trying to just keep her base. if she can keep the gop base, if she can get 90 to 95% of that gop base, she'll win it. jon ossoff is talking to two audiences. talking to liberal democrats and talking to disaffected moderates and independents, who might otherwise vote for republicans. but maybe they're turned on by his message about both parties

being corrupt and accomplicompl. >> how is his message of i'm not really an ideologue selling? >> it depends. it's kind of a two-tone message. to liberal democrats, he's still saying, i'm the guy who can stand up to donald trump. to more moderates, he's saying, i'm the guy who can cut wasteful spending. that may be a path for other democrats to win next year. >> i think i just saw you in the picture. you just hoed up eshowed up in picture. are we going to get paper ballots tomorrow? >> i hope, but i feel a feeling i'll be working until 3:00 a.m. wednesday. >> great newspaper, "the atlanta journal-constitution." >> up next, republicans are pushing for a quick vote on health care this week or next, but so far, everything they're doing has been behind closed doors and now democrats are on the floor of the senate fighting back. they want to know what's in this package. you're watching "hardball," where the action is.

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this is a great plan. i actually think it will get even better. and this is, make no mistake, this is a repeal and a replace of obamacare. make no mistake about it. make no mistake. >> welcome back to "hardball." that was president trump, of course, in his victory celebration for house republicans after passing their health care bill last month. but fast forward this to last week, when the president called the bill, the bill he was bragging on there, mean in a closed-door meeting with senate republicans. anyway, a group of those republicans are now working on their own version behind closed doors of a senate health care overhaul. and senate majority leader mitch mcconnell says it's time to act. >> our goal here is to move forward quickly. the status quo is unsustainable. we all know something has to be done. something has to be done soon. and everybody is participating who wants to and the idea is to get enough votes to pass it.

unfortunately, it will have to be a republicans-only exercise. but we're working hard to get there. >> reports say mcconnell hopes to have a vote on the bill before the july 4th recess, that starts next week, but there's no written text and no guarantee republicans will have the 50 votes needed to pass anything. senate democrats are preparing to go to war, starting tonight with an all-night talkathon. there you see bernie sanders making his case with the quote marks there on the senate floor. and here's minority leader chuck schumer tonight floor today. >> the republicans are writing their health care bill under the cover of darkness because they're ashamed of it, plain and simple. but if republicans won't relent and debate their health care in the bill open for the american people to see, they shouldn't expect business as usual in the senate. >> let's bring in the "hardball" roundtable, yamiche alcindor

with "the new york times." so they can only afford to lose two votes. we understand there's two women, especially, murkowski of alaska and collins of maine. i'm sure different points of the map there who are having a problem with this. we also hear there's two conservatives, mike lee of utah and rand paul of kentucky, ready to vote against it too, too. how do they get 50? what's mcconnell up to except getting this behind him, even if it means losing? getting it over with? >> he wants to go on with something else. he wants to go up to a vote, because he wants to be able to put people on the record. and i think it's hard to get to 50 votes because of you have two people. two outliers. >> on either end. you have this party that they're the same party in name, but in reality, they have very different interests. and you have a lot of republicans, i would say, who are also very scared about the medicaid expansion part. you have a lot of people who are dealing with opioid crisis -- >> because working poor people who are better than the poverty level, the ones that most people sort of identify, and really care about people, because

they're doing their best, but they're not quite able to make it. they're getting knocked off of health care? >> and let's not add to the fact that the president called it mean. they know if this somehow turns against people and people start turning against this, the president will say, that was really congress' bill and they didn't do exactly what i said. the political capital is also something -- >> like they're vietnam. and even if you somehow thread the needle to get this through the senate, then you've got to get it to the house. it's such a quagmire they're in and they want to get out of it so bad. and i think you're right. mcconnell, you know, normally you never take a bill to the house if you don't have to votes, or to the floor. maybe you're going to take it to the floor, let it die, blame obama for the rest of it and move on to tax reform which is what the republicans want. >> david, you start. how many votes would a repeal vote get? simple, straight repeal? we're getting rid of what we call socialism. >> maybe the 30 to 40 range. it wouldn't be majority. >> in other words, the bulk of

the republican party is against health care. is that fair? >> yes, your point is that this is not about policy, this is about politics. can anyone here name what this bill will do? how this bill will make health care better for people? it's all about getting rid of obamacare, which means politically, it's about serving the base. because mitch mcconnell, he's one of the leaders of the republican party, they control both houses. trump's in the white house. >> you made the point, what they really want is a vote on the record that says, then what i go back to wyoming and says, i voted to get rid of obamacare. >> but they don't want to lose this vote, too. >> they're probably going to lose it. >> people aren't going to remember who took away their health care. there's not just this idea that you can just go out there and vote and say, okay, well -- >> a good number of conservative states, is that still the smart move? >> it's still a smart move for some people -- >> wyoming, north dakota, south dakota. >> they have now lost their health care because of their

senator. they're going to turn against -- >> yeah, there are real-world ramifications of this. >> why is it so hard to get a bill together if they do want to save something like obamacare? >> you guys are making two points. do you want to get rid of health care or fix it? what is it? fix it or get rid of it? >> i think they want to fix it. >> well, then, that's explained. they don't want to get rid of it. >> i think they want to repeal obamacare. >> they don't want to fix it. can you help me here? fix it or repeal? >> i think repeal. >> they want to get rid of it, that's number one priority. >> i think this is very complicated for a party that's normally -- some normal republicans in it and some abnormal republics. it's very complicated. tonight's talkathon, by the way, tensions flared between the two party leaders. no surprise there between mitch and chuck. let's take a look at the heated exchange on the senate floor. >> just renew my request for one other leader said no, i get it. one more.

will we have time, more than ten hours, since this is a complicated bill, to review the bill. will it be available to us and the public more than ten hours before we have to vote for it? >> i think -- >> since our leader has said, our republican leader, that there'll be plenty of time for a process, where people can make amendments. you need time to prepare those amendments. >> i think we'll have ample opportunity to read and amend the bill. >> will it be more than ten hours? >> i think we'll have ample opportunity to read and amend the bill. >> i rest my case. >> that's not much time to review a sixth of the american economy to get it right. >> and to meet this timeline that mcconnell set out, they have until the end of the week to get a cbo score to vote on it by july 4th. if you're so proud of your bill and what it's going to do, bring it out, let's discuss it, debate it, defend it. >> you're making the point. they're not proud of it. they want to get the thing passed or defeated, but over with. they want it over with now.

this is holding them up and it will hold them up through the summer. >> and you need hearings to explain the bill and have a policy discussion about it. john mccain was asked last week by a reporter, what does this bill do? what problems will it solve? what are some of the distance in it. and he said, these are about getting the freedom caucuses and moderates together. >> no, those are two different issues. >> have the democrats ever rushed something through? just laughing. i remember stimulus packages who have stuff in there from d.c. and people's notes. up next, these three people will tell me something i don't know. news coming up here. you're watching "hardball," where the action subpoena. it takes to replace it.ee-qt what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart. with liberty mutual new car replacement™,

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just a reminder, polls in that highly anticipated special election in georgia tomorrow night. that election closes at 7:00 p.m. eastern. be sure to turn in tomorrow night to "hardball" as the early returns start to come in. we might have something for you at 7:00 p.m. and we'll be right back. definitely not the traffic. excuse me, doctor... the genomic data came in. thank you. you can do that kind of analysis? yeah, watson. i can quickly analyze millions of clinical and scientific reports to help you tailor treatment options for the patient's genomic profile. you can do that? even way out here? yes. even way out here.

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people, but they're people very frustrated with the health care. >> ragan wasn't too good on hiv either. big tech meeting. tim cook, jeff bezos. it's getting harder and harder for the white house to bring in the ceos as he gets increasingly testy and tense. >> was schwartzman there? >> no, he was not. >> david? >> georgia's six. >> make a prediction? >> i'm not making a prediction. >> no, i have a relative down there door knocking and she tells me there's still people who don't know the electn is tomorrow. they know there's an election and there's been $50 million in ads. >> you know the germans -- when the germans left paris in 1944 -- '45, there were people sunbathing along the sand. not everybody's into politics. >> yes. yes. >> free -- what's that about? something to do with politics? not everybody pays attention.

thank you all. when we return, let me finish tonight with trump watch. you're watching "hardball." it's so true. time's up, insufficient we're on prenatal care.es. and administrative paperwork... your days of drowning people are numbered. same goes for you, budget overruns. and rising costs, wipe that smile off your face. we're coming for you, too. for those who won't rest until the world is healthier, neither will we. optum. how well gets done.

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trump watch monday, june 19th, 2017. donald trump's lawyer has drowned in his own talking points. he came on television yesterday to say that his client is not under investigation by special counsel bob mueller. he said it a number of times. he also said on the same sunday interview program that his client is, in fact, being

investigated by special counsel bob mueller. he did. he said both things. 100% contradictory on the same program. this is a moment, a moment in history, nutty history. remember the lawyer for monica lewinsky coming on all five programs the same weekend. we call that the full ginsginsb. what are we going to call this sunday? he said two opposite things on the same program. this is a joke. the president of the united states has lauwyered up himself for collusion. he could have defended in a single series interview. he could have put all of his cards on the table, everything he knew, jared kushner, michael flynn, paul manafort had said at his direction. he could have sat down and done that. he chose not to. he's chosen instead to build a wall between the country and the truth. he's guarded that truth as if it were the golden fort knox which suggests that with all of his disclaimers and everything his

mouth pieces have thrown at us stls, indeed, gold behind that wall. that's "hardball." thanks for joining us. "all in with chris hayes" is up now. >> tonight on "all in". >> it's very unfortunate. >> the clock is set as the secret republican health care bill inches closer to the senate. >> nobody's hiding the ball here. >> tonight, the democratic resistance. >> we will fight this bill with all we have. >> my guest, senator bernie sanders. plus, meet the president's new lawer. >> now he's being investigated by the department of justice. >> the ever changing explanation on the russia investigation. >> you have now said that he is being investigated after saying that he didn't. >> no. >> you just said that he's being investigated. and after months and months of silence, jared kushner speaks. >> it's working and it's very exciting. >> "all in" starts right now.