tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. with stephanie rule and you can follow me on twitter, facebook, instagram, snapchat. thank you so much for watching. "deadline: white house" with nicolle wallace begins right now. hi, everyone. it's 4:00. donald trump took to twitter today to knock down a political crisis of his own making. acknowledging a couple hours ago that he did not record his conversations with ousted fbi director james comey. here are the tweets from the president. quote, with all of the recently reported electronic surveillance, unmasking and illegal leaking of information i have no idea if there are tapes or recorngs of my conversations with jes comey. but i did not make any and do not have any such recordings. today's admission comes five weeks after he suggested in a tweet of course that he did. back on may 12th, president trump tweeted this. quote, james comey better hope that there are no tapes of our

conversations before he starts leaking to the press. that original tweet put in motion a series of events that could serve as exhibit a, b or c for trump's penchant for self-inflicted wounds. watch how james comey responded about that tweet while testifying before the senate intel committee. >> so look, i have seen the tweet about tapes. lordy, i hope there are tweets. the president tweeted on friday after i got fired that i better hope there's not tapes. i woke up in the middle of the night on monday night because it didn't dawn on me originally there might be corroboration for our conversation, there might be a tape. and my judgment was i needed to get that out into the public square and so i asked a friend of mine to share the content of the memo with the reporter. didn't do it myself for a variety of reasons but i asked him to because i thought that might prompt the appointment of a special counsel. >> for the latest on today's twitter revelation, we go to some of the best reporters on the beat at the white house, nbc's kelly o'donnell, nbc intelligence and national security reporter ken dilanian

and "washington post" white house bureau chief robert -- philip druker. the whole exchange over whether he did or did not have recordings was ridiculous at best and adam schiff says was this an effort to intimidate james comey or an effort to silence james comey? that seems like the piece of the self-inflicted damage that trump is still is still paying for. >> yeah. it's important to remember that original tweet announcement he made that on may 12th. may 11th is when "the new york times" reported that explosive story about the one-on-one dinner that comey had with trump that detailed trump's request of comey demands for loyalty. and so this seems to be interpreted at the time as trump

trying to intimidate, to pressure, to threaten comey about leaking to the press by mentioning the tapes thing. it went on for 5 1/2 weeks. the president and the senior white house officials including sean spicer refused to tell the public whether or not these tapes existed until we found out today that of course they don't. >> of course they don't. ken dilanian, you have some new reporting about other men who were pressured to knock down the russia story. tell us about it. >> yeah. the director of national intelligence dan coats was before the house intelligence committee today. and he repeated the story that's been reported but he hasn't been willing to say in public which is that donald trump went to him in march, repeatedly and asked him to say that he had seen no evidence of collusion between the trump campaign and russia. coats said he felt that the president was obsessed with the russia investigation and he found the request to be inappropriate. he turned it down. and now we know that it's something that the special

counsel mueller is investigating as part of the obstruction of justice probe. >> kellyo, it comes back to this white house and how they create crises and then they have to manage. i want to play you a little bit of sound from the briefing and ask you about this on the other. >> why it took so long 41 days for this to be laid to rest. >> he said he'd have an answer at the end of this week and he did. and i can't speak anything further. >> so kelly o, it's obvious from last night's rally and today that the president is trying to meet his own deadline that he's feeling like taking matters into his own hands is a practice he's clearly operationingizing. but what do you make of the fact that he tweeted this out before he was facing a congressional deadline to turn over the tapes and fact that you had to cover another briefing that wasn't on camera.

pretty extraordinary times to be covering an extraordinary white house. >> well, i do believe that the congressional deadline is a powerful force here. the president could have cleared this up instantly in the day after he made the first tweeted assertion. they chose not to do that for whatever reason. and because of that deadline, let me just say that initially the plan for the off camera gaggle which is a shortened form of a briefing, a gaggle is a journalism term of art -- >> it's supposed to be the warm-up for the on camera briefing so they get a sense of where all of you guys were -- where all of us are in our heads, what stories we're trying to cover. that's usually all you get these days, right? >> yes. and in this instance though they did make it on audio. i said to colleagues i wonder if it's because they're going to tell us something that they do want on the record, even if it's not televised. and shortly before the scheduled gaggle briefing, i went looking for someone who could confirm

this. they were all conferring, doors were closed. that's typical for the -- before you would face reporters. but in that intervening time where i was trying to find an open door, that's when the president tweeted. so the fact that he notified his press staff that he was going to put out this tweet suggests that the white house counsel was involved iit. i think the wording did not record, does not possess, means that there wasn't some other staffer that had a recording that he had possession of. that all felt like a carefully planned, proper response just put out through twitter. that is intended for the house inquiry. and so much of this goes back to the president's impulse to try to nick away at the credibility of someone he perceives as an opponent. we saw crooked hillary, we saw lyin' ted during the election cycle. and james comey was someone he was trying to chip at his credibility. so to raise the specter of tapes that might refute his account is something that in that moment seemed like a way for the

president to sort of raise doubts about james comey and yet it unleashed so many other steps that are certainly more problematic for the white house than if he had just not tweeted about james comey at all. >> philip, you brought us back in time. i think it's useful to remember that there was no special counsel yet when these tweets went out. so that everything that happened after the twitter taunt that put in motion comey's middle of the night revelation that he better get out his side of the story and people are going to judge that move until the end of time. so let's just say that of the two of them, he's still the man who hones closer to the model of a boy scout. but that they both played in an untraditional kind of way for a top law enforcement official and i wonder if you're picking up from anyone in conta with the president if he feels affirmed in his ways and his methods after the special election

results and if you think they're going to have a harder time getting him off twitter even before this week. >> yeah, i have been talking to a lot of white house officials the last couple of days about this very subject. again and again and again we're hearing that they -- they're really resigned to the fact he's going to continue to tweet this way. he likes it. it's his outlet and he'll continue to fight back on the russia investigation. he approaches this not as a legal matter, so much as a political campaign. he's out there to discredit comey. to discredit the special counsel. to discredit the fake news media. all of us who are covering it and he feels like the georgia results validate his belief about all of this. which is that the american people, the voters out there in the country who voted for him and still support him don't care about russia. he turns on the tv and he sees what he views as his hysterical commentary on cable and he feels like out in the country nobody is listening to that.

nobody cares about that. they want him to do jobs. they want him to focus on foreign policy, to take out isis, do -- you know, all the things on his agenda he's not yet done. for him it's a challenge. i think they're going to have a really difficult time prying him away from twitter as self-destructive as that may be. >> and ken dilanian, even if they don't care about russia out in the country understand today from a law enforcement source that mueller's staff is up to about 30 lawyers. they all sort of meet the very high standard that i think people know mueller to have met during his entire government career and now you've got chuck grassley the republican chair of the judiciary committee saying in a profile in potico that he's going to run down any questions about whether or not the president of the united states obstructed justice. so the investigation doesn't just continue, but it seems to be intensifying. >> that's right, nicolle.

those 30 lawyers, that's just the legal team and there are 100 fbi agents digging into all sorts of avenues from, you know t business relationships of people around donald trump, to the collusion question, to this obstruction of justice matter so it's intensifying. i want to say one i think this about the tapes issue. if it was a bluff and it's clear it was a bluff by donald trump, i wonder what the implications are going to be for foreign leaders who are watching this president. what does his word mean? this is of a piece of his secret plan to defeat isis dramatically, which turned out not to be a secret plan. he's using the obama plan. so you know the president's credibility matters. here's an example where he said something that he later back tracked on and proved not to be true. >> kelly, real i quickly on that question that ken just raised. i saw kellyanne conway with some

glib -- this team is becoming notorious for being crummy winners but do they take this seriously? do they worry about how they're perceived by foreign leaders abroad or is this who they are, deal with it? >> i think they make a distinction about the relationship that the president has with the leaders and that's more of a face-to-face bond and they view the twitter statement flow of the president as something that is much more in his sort branding, provocative marketing sense. they would draw a distinction between the kinds of personal bochds the -- bonds the president has begun to make with specific leaders. if those leaders view it differently, that might be a case by case scenario. but they have begun to view his tweet storms or tweet sort of trouble spots as something that can be dealt with and explained away even though we just outlined how problemic it can be and can trigger unwanted

consequences. this has not yet come into the realm where they have been terrified by a tweet with respect to foreign policy, at least not yet. >> the best of the best, kelly o, ken dilanian and philip druker thank you very much. i won't put you on the spot because we were off camera. you're of course the editor and founder of "the weekly standard." let me introduce my whole panel. i'm sorry, i jumped right to you because i was watching your faces. former deputy campaign manager liz smith and jason johnson of chris christie interview fame. from the root.com and msnbc contributor. but on the issue of self-inflicted wounds -- i worked in the white house and you were an honest critic when we viewed up. but this idea of self-inflicted wounds but it's like self-inflicted wounds on steroids to watch this white

house. >> everyone says that twitter is the problem. that's not the problem. lying is the problem. i mean, bluffing is a nice way of saying it. i play poker a little bit, and bluffing is lying. then you have to ask why did he bluff? i mean, comey was there. he knows what was said and assuming comey's being honest and he has a contemporaneous memorandum, so why would you say you have things on tape, i think for other people who had been in the oval office who might have said things they shouldn't have said. and i mean, it would be complicated -- trump would be complicit in this, but i'm just thinking, put yourself in the shoes. useful not just to observe but to put yourself in the shoes of the person involved. trump isn't stupid, he knows that comey -- comey's reaction and his testimony is what one would expect. >> lordy, i hope you have tapes. >> i wonder who else he was trying to worry or deter or bluff -- >> that's interesting. that makes him a chess player. >> maybe he's bluffing -- i have

been in enough poker games that people -- where people bluff stupidly. >> i think you're giving him more credit than he deserves here. if you talk to reporters in new york, real estate people in new york, he loves to play mind games with them. it's one thing to play mind games and mess with the page 6 reporter. but another thing to do wit the director of the fbi and the big problem for him here is that there are no tapes. because then it sets up a credibility test between james comey on the one hand and donald trump on the other. who are you going to believe? the boy scout former fbi director or the guy that fact checkers say lies five times a day. >> this is the stupidest mind game if it was a mind game. i think you're both giving him too much credit. on a day when the senate health care bill is released we are sitting here and talking about tweets. we know they never existed. that he basically made up on the fly to distract from, you know, to distract from a crisis that

was unfolding. he had no outlet. he didn't know where he was going. he knew it wasn't true when he did it and instead of talking about medicaid cuts, instead of talking about a massive transfer of wealth under the new bill, we're talking about tapes that don't exist and it's just 24 hours of ludicrousness again that -- >> and we're going -- we're going to talk about this too. but the tapes become an important part of the story about the investigation into russia. i think the reason that all of this matters is because -- it reminds me of the first chapter of charles krauthammer's book, if you get the russia question wrong, nothing matters. russia picks our next president nothing matters so i think the tapes matter as just a piece of the comey chapter in the russia -- but he fired the head of the guy who was investigating russia. so that's why tapes matter. i wonder what it tells you in the larger context of the russia investigation. >> well, one, you know, to claim that he had tapes was another form of obstruction of justice.

an attempt to influence and abuse people. so when he is saying you better hope there's no tapes. >> there's adam schiff's point. >> right. what will fascinate me, because it's a bunch of liars. a disappointing level of lying. someone going to claim when he said oh i hope there's no tapes when he said i hope -- people are going to try to parse this one way or the other. the larger issue is this. the president of the united states lied about his interactions with james comey. whether that lie comes in the form of saying i had him taped z or the lie says what conversations he had, it makes comey look stronger and make mueller's case easier and makes it more difficult to believe anything that comes out of his mouth. >> when we come back, dropping like flies. only a few hours since the senate released the latest health care bill and they lost four republicans already. and hugging the third rail. politicians have long considered cutting entitlement programs as

the third rail of american politics. today's bill that's proposed cuts to medicaid elicited dramatic and emotional reaction. a woman once celebrated for being the first woman ever to serve as speaker is now being thrown under the bus my members of her own party. garfunkel (instrumental)

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hunt who's been wrangling republican senators all day. i watched you pressing rand paul earlier and i saw you get the list of four out of him. ted cruz, mike lee, rand paul and who am i forgetting? senator johnson. tell me where things stand with republicans long support for the republican senate version of the health bill. >> well, nicolle, this has unfolded out pretty quickly. so this draft of the bill dropped shortly before 11:00. by close to noon we were already hearing that there was this group of republicans that were potentially going to oppose it. we had moderates, very nervously telling us they hadn't looked at the bill and rand paul and cruz and the others that you named decide sad that they would come out as a group and say, look, we can't support this in the current form and we need changes. look at the back and forth i had with senator paul earlier. so right now you're a no vote? >> the four of us have said we

cannot support the bill in its current iteration. >> tell us who the rest of this group is. >> this group will be senators cruz, lee and johnson and myself. >> together that's enough to take down this bill? >> the intention is not to take down the bill, but to make the bill better. i believe the leverage and the count of four people is enough that hopefully those who wrote the bill will say, we want some or all of their votes and therefore we'll try to make the bill look more like a repeal bill and less like a reiteration of obamacare bill. >> so there's a little bit of nuance there, nicolle. they are saying, look, we do want to talk more about this. they're not say -- not shutting the door to negotiations but the reality is that republican leaders privately that paul is a hard no and perhaps the other three they can talk to and figure something out. but this is the beginning of, you know, an intense negotiation period. i think there's a growing sense that, you know, the end of next week might be ambitious for

this. >> let me bring the white house dynamic into this because the president thought the house bill was too mean and it sounds like in trump language rand paul wants to make it more mean. >> i think that that is a correct assessment and i think you're going to hear moderates say that the draft of this is too mean. i talked to a couple of them, senators murkowski and others out of the capitol. if they try to move this closer to the conservatives we'll push back really hard. but i do think at some point the president may have to weigh in one way or the other and i have a feeling the approach going to be similar -- i think part of the reason why he's been saying these things, at least based on my reporting, talking to members up here is he really wants a win on this. and this is what senators have been telling him they need for there to be a win. that they have needed the bill to be less mean. so we'll see if he starts to get on the phone. i asked lindsey graham if that had happened. graham and the president have been talking more frequently. senator graham said, we hadn't

heard from the president yesterday but he was going to have to weigh in if they were going to get to 50 votes last week. graham said it was a totally open question. we may get to 50 or not. >> i'm going to bring in the congressional reporter for "the washington post." let me ask you about the democrats. do they try not to stop a party having enough problems on their own or were they part of the conversation in a big way today as well? >> you know, i think it's a little bit of both. they really want to get out there and say this bill is not just mean, it's meaner. that's exactly what senator chuck schumer said. >> like i can't believe we're all just letting donald trump dictate the terms of the debate and talking like third graders. i guess i started it. so we've got the republicans wanting to make it more mean in a way that we know that the president won't accept. and you're right. meaner, i think it's more mean, but i'm not a grammar police but go ahead. >> i think it's convenient for them because they're happy to

put this in donald trump's mouth. they're happy to say that when people are upset that republics own it entirely. that they -- they don't want to give them any opportunity for republicans to say this wasn't our fault. that being said, you're going to see them over the course of next week start offering a whole bunch of amendments. because you have to remember there's an open amendment process next week. anyone can offer amendments and it will likely go all night once they start but democrats are going to start offering amendments that put republicans in difficult places. making them vote on things they don't want the vote on. that's what democrats will do over the next week or so. >> kelsey, i can't remember if it was your paper but there was a piece out earlier in the day when we learned the details about the senate republican plan and it talked about how --

>> the idea is that we don't know that he actually means this. he -- it's probably using it as leverage because it's a pretty effective tool to tell people that he'll let it fail and that they -- the people who voted against it will be held accountable if they don't follow through on this promise, they have been making for seven years to repeal and replace the affordable care act. so in a lot of ways it's like a heavy pressure technique. more than we think it is necessarily a real threat. >> all right. kelsey and kasie, stay with us. let me bring in the panel. let me put up something you wrote today. is it embargoed? we'll break the embargo. >> so sensitive. >> but you basically call out republicans for their hypocrisy. the big attack against obamacare, no one had read the bill and now they're in a position that they harshly criticized.

republicans rush to vote on obamacare, they have come under criticism for exactly what they decried and hurrying toward a bill that hasn't been read. you go on to detail how little they know about it. >> yeah. i think they'd be better off taking their time. let's have a debate. maybe they can improve the notion -- right now they have let donald trump define the house bill as mean. >> theirs is not enough heart. >> and it's a bad debate to have. i think you're better off letting it go for a while. maybe a case for the -- make a case for the bill. but on the previous reporting. a zero chance that mitch mcconnell was surprised by the four conservative senators coming out. i mean, mitch mcconnell is very savvy. by noon, mitch mcconnell is -- it's not dead but it's wobbly. >> not passable. >> not passable. i wonder if we'll get to the vote. i think mitch mcconnell will let this play out. look, you know what, we put it

up, we have our alternatives to the house bill. if i can't get through 50 votes i won't make them vote on nightmarish amendments framed to look like bad votes for the republicans. i would not be surprised to see mcconnell pull the bill and can we please get on to infrastructure and tax reform. >> can they just say, oh, never mind, didn't work out? >> i agree with bill talking the dog out in the back and shooting it, i'm not sure the that the bill gets for a vote. the issue is that that dramatically reduces access to health care for some of the poorest and most disadvantaged people in our country. >> who are represented by the way by plenty of republicans. >> exactly. >> as governors and members of congress. >> exactly. >> potentially dramatically increases the cost of health ca, people get less insurance, less benefits for a higher price. higher deductible.

at the same time it offers tax cuts that would disproportionately benefit the top 1% of our economy. that is not a very sellable picture. it's similar to the house bill, there are some revisions on parts of it. but the essential -- the essential thing that you are going to cut medicaid, you are going to potentially really disadvantage the poorest people and oh by the way we're seeing a massive transfer of the wealthiest, very difficult to sell. >> we're hitting pause here. when we come back, president trump has said he wanted a health care as we have been talking about with heart. does the public think that this one has it? protesters outside letter mc -- leader mcconnell's office don't think so. ♪

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i think and i hope they guarantee anything, but i hope we'll is up surprise you with really good plan.

you know, i have been talking about a plan with heart. i said add some money to it. a plan with heart. but obamacare is dead. >> president trump calling for a plan with heart. but here's the scene on capitol hill in the moments after the bill was released. they're arresting people in wheelchairs. this is the republicans' worst nightmare, bill. i came of age in republican politics when the ad you feared the most was the ad of pushing grandma off the cliff. a famous ad. you did everything you could to not elicit a reaction like this. what do you think? >> you know, i don't know, people are blocking the offices, i guess the capitol police have to remove them. it's not fair in a sense. you can't make every piece of legislation hostage to people showing up in the wheelchairs. >> not to call you out, but in the break we were having a bipartisan -- >> they should have spent -- health care is a complicated issue. >> nobody would have known it.

>> they -- here's -- i'll be quiet, here's the way i would put it. if this happened after six months of debate on the health care bill, come on, we have had this debate. there are people who have reasonable differences but there's an argument for the bill or against the bill. if you pop it in secret, no explanation and then the first thing you see is the demonstration -- who's out there defending it? >> nobody. >> rht now, defenng this bill. so that's -- >> i want to ask if you agree with john boehner who said several months ago that no one is ever going to repeal obamacare because you can't take something away once you have given it to people can. >> totally. i thought that was a great quote of his. it's a lot easy to prevent this than to take it away. we were having this discussion before but i mean, if democrats mess up this messaging my god, we should pack up and go home. because it's so clear. it's what the republicans are

trying to do here is give a massive tax break to the top 1% and do it by, you know, hurting people in nursing homes. taking health care away from the lowest income americans. taking health care away from people who are addicting to opoids. >> let me give you to -- you're talking about the medicaid. >> yes. >> cuts. these are all things that medicaid covers. >> but this is the thing that sometimes when you think about medicaid cuts you think of it in terms of entitlements and what democrats need to do is to put a human face on this. and say, look, this affects -- >> well, republicans needed to do is to put a human face on it. there's an economic argument. there used to be for some conservative solutions. but no one is making a conservative argument about a solution. they're just -- so we're just talking about -- >> yeah. there are -- this president is not a policy heavy guy. he hasn't delegated -- look, tom price is knowledgeable on health care. he could have been on every show and people would have had the

sense, you know what, medicaid cuts. what if the republicans said they're not cuts. they're slowing the rate of growth, right, you can laugh at it. but it's a true statement. >> hang on. >> you see people being dragged out -- kids in wheelchairs. kids with inhalers. the super cut for the campaign ads next summer it's not possible to screw this up. because this is -- >> let me ask -- >> what happened in georgia? what happened in georgia? >> we didn't win in georgia because it was a plus nine -- >> they're going to pick up five points? that's not strong. >> they were never going to win that district. >> oh, no. that's why they spent $33 million. because they were never -- >> they thought they had a chance to win it but thought it was unlikely. >> you don't think think that's any problem with the -- >> when you have the secretary of state trying to block people from registering to vote that makes it hard to win a race. >> jason, jason, let me ask you

a policy question. do you think that the republicans have a gift in the fact that president trump has not a single conservative policy instinct, that when he was asked by sean hannity during the republican primary about health care he said to a sean hannity whose face turned white -- we can't let people die in the streets, they have in the president someone whose impulses on health line are in line with them. because you're right -- the republicans did lose a special election in this climate with a bill that was as unpopular as you have been stating. eloquently and aggressively over one another. but the democrats' best ally may be a president that might think it's mean to take something away from someone? >> i think the members w think that president trump is an ally is making a mistake. i think the democrats need to establish and talk about why this bill is a problem. if they're trying to depend on trump who changes his mind

depending on who left the room -- >> and undermines everybody. >> exactly. the bill that i forced you to purpose through is mean. that's ridiculous. >> there's a conservative economic argument to be made which is introducing the lower prices we never hear that argument being made. of course there's a counter on the democratic side, there's a counter it will hurt our health care system and increase access -- decrease access for impoverished people. but boosting the private sector -- you're going to get better health care for less cost, guess what, republicans make that argument. >> but today it was about mean, meaner and meanest and about people in wheelchairs. up next, nancy pelosi strikes back, making it clear that she's not going anywhere. >> so you want me to sing my praises is that what you're saying? why should i? i'm a master legislator. i'm a strategic politically

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hydro boost. from neutrogena you seehese commercials that tie these candidates to leader pelosi. week in and week out. you have to beat the republican and you have to carry this very toxic democratic brand on your back too. that's a tough thing to ask a candidate running for congress. >> democratic discontent over nancy pelosi spilling over into public view after that expensive loss in georgia's special election that's got my table all riled up. they tie it to nancy pelosi and the washington establishment. a political tactic that president trump hopes doesn't go away. he tweeted this morning, certainly hope the democrats do not force nancy p out, and please let crying chuck stay.

joining me is a democrat from texas. now, thank you for being with us. i understand from reporting from nbc's capitol hill unit you left a closed door meeting to talk about whether change in leadership is needed. do you still support nancy pelosi as your leader? >> well, i think in the context of looking forward to the 2018 elections and our goal of regaining the majority, i think that the democratic caucus needs a new leader and it's not about nancy pelosi. she is -- she has been a great leader and she deserves her due, but when we're talking about are we going to regain the majority that means we have to win swing districts all across this nation. in those swing districts you have to bring in swing voters and independent republicans who may not approve of president trump and his policies. and leader pelosi doesn't do well in that demographic. i think every te we havehose

elections they just did in georgia the democratic candidate is tied to leader pelosi and it hurts their chances at election and i think we need to change that if we really think we're able to regain the majority. >> who would you support to appeal to the kind -- i agree with that. i went out and covered the democratic part of president trump's coalition in wisconsin, michigan, ohio and florida and they felt very distant from the national democratic brand. so i wonder from your perspective who you think would do a better job reaching those voters and who you'd back as your new leader? >> you know, i haven't really decided on an individual i would back. >> well, who are the candidates, can you give me a few names? >> i'll till you this, there are 193 democratic members here. >> 193? >> many of whom have no -- who do not aspire to be in the leadership. but about 20 or 30 members in this delegation that would make really good leaders. i think we have to wait to see which way this goes. it's just hard for me to decide

to back one candidate or the other because we're not at that point yesterday. >> well, for democrats around the country and perhaps even in your district who are feeling despair after losing all of the special elections since donald trump became president what kind of members are you looking at? can you tell me what states they might be from or what their background might be or i mean, can you give us sort of a swath of your caucus that you're looking at? >> well, you know, not having thought about it before you asked the question, i can tell you that over the last month and a half, ere are members of the democratic caucus who have been very outspoken on -- you know, the matters of russia. you have congressman swell well, congressman schiff and congressman rice and there are others like them that i think, you know, could take that mantle and put us in a position where we can do a lot better in the

swing districts we need to win. >> do you think nancy pelosi sounded today like someone who wouldn't take this lying down. basically to you and the the colleague -- 12 colleagues who met behind closed doors bring it on. do you think this will be a fight that damages the democratic party even more than it is after the loss in the presidential contest and the string of losses in the special elections? >> no, i really don't think so. i think whatever we do next the intention is to strengthen the democratic caucus and i really think that leader pelosi needs to ask this question. is in these swing districts, do i help the democratic candidates that we have running for office or do i not? i know i think -- i know what i think the answer to that question is. but i think that's the -- we have to have an honest assessment about that question as we move forward. >> all right, thank you so much for spending some time with us. please promise to come back and keep us posted.

thank you so much. liz, let me ask you quickly, i know we have to get to the break. but it looked like you'd jump through the camera, what bothers you about this conversation? >> well, i think there are a lot of things. i think it is a little bit intellectually dishonest. and i think that some democrats are using her as a scapegoat to grind their own political axes. tim ryan wanted to be leader. and he did not become leader. she got re-elected. and so -- >> doesn't he have a point? >> so this is what -- one thing i will say is this. democrats do have a leadership problem. we need to look to new leadership. i think it speaks to that -- we need to get beyond this stupid fights of 2016 that bernie versus hillary sniping but this is to some extent an insider argument. jon ossoff did not lose because of nancy pelosi. and you know no one started to talk about nancy pelosi here until like a day before the election. so i think it is very convenient, power play by people

who are trying to get back into power. >> don't have the democrats have more than a leadership problem, don't they have a message problem? >> yes. >> i think they have multiple problems that's why they're out of power in every important branch of government. at the end of the day, you may not like mitch mcconnell or paul ryan but they're winning. i think the democratic leadership should probably be changed because they keep losing -- >> how do you steal it? the republicans pant -- i didn't vote for him, neither did bill. >> it was a violation of the democratic -- >> you mean the nuclear option. >> yeah. not allowing gorsuch to come up -- >> the democrats could have prevented that by winning the presidential. >> and president obama could have appointed someone who had the seat until december. >> hang on. bill has to get to the last word. >> i talked to one of the super pacs in georgia 6, they ended up spending a lot of money on tv on

pelosi because the voters don't like her. she's very much the past. honestly, general analytically if she said i'm stepping down, it will be an open race among younger candidates to be the leader of the house of the democrats i think it will help the democrats. >> i used to say this razz a strategist, but the most obvious answer is usually the right one. if she's causing problems that might be the obvious answer. maybe not the loyal one, or the just one, but sometimes -- attacks against her are wking it's the most obvious one. president trump unleashed, last night's fiery performance. one of the many signs that the president has his groove back.

so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. adult 7+ promotes alertness and mental sharpness in dogs so you can get business done. 7 and older. (ray) the difference has been incredible. she is much more aware. she wants to learn things. (vo) purina pro plan bright mind. nutrition that performs.

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it is always terrific to be able to leave that washington swamp. the truth is people love us. we are thinking about building the wall as a solar wall so it creates energy and pays for itself. pretty good imagination, right? my idea. we are also working night and day to restore law and order to our country. look at chicago, what the hell is going on in chicago? what's that all about? somebody says why did you appoint a rich person to be in charge of the economy?

i said that's the kind of thinking we want. i love all people, rich or mopo, in those particular positions, i don't want a poor person. they have phony witch hunts going against me and everything going. all we do is win, win, win. >> all he does is win, win, win. >> megan. why cannot the democrats figure out how to beat that by? >> first of all, i am from chica icago. >> you got hit. >> that's one strategy for the democrats. they solely rely on resist and do not form their message on jobs and economy and healthcare, they are not going to make gains in places where they need to bring over white women voters where they need to bring voters of people concerned of their

jobs and college kids. people are terrified of their future and isis. the democrats day after da day -- you know this as well. >> this is the biggest weakness, we can rely on that a lot. >> bill and i are in therapy. >> no, we are not. >> we work for maybe 16 republicans who try to defeat that man and he's not to be under estimated, right? >> i would be worried if i were a democrat, i think i need something to say, what are their tax plans or how they're going to improve obamacare a little bit. i think nancy pelosi, i respect her. >> i do, too. >> i do think that some of the polling suggests that she's a little more problems for the

democrats to have a going forward positive message than i would have thought. >> yeah, well, look, i agree with you a lot there. we cannot just run against trump. people know he's a bad guy. >> 40% did not like him. >> what more can you say about him? if we let yourselves, we'll forget to connect with people and going back to where you are saying, we need to start regaining the party and the party that believes government can improve people's lives. this is automation and this is how we are going to fix it. this is how we can make healthcare better for you and issue after issue. i feel like sometimes we are not doing that. >> do you think we have a discipline to do that? >> it is now election after election and not just the national levels and state houses and legislatures. what is it going to take for democrats to sort of get their act together?

>> delaware and connecticut and illinois. there is been local special elections where democrats have had a message on local -- [ laughter ] >> local message. >> the idea is that -- democrats manage -- >> we usually don't care. >> i am for a check on this one. i am not against democrats taking back the house abut let s help you. you cannot point to it. >> i think in the grand scheme of things. focusing on trump is for a long time. he's not running again until 2020. you have to focus on local elections. it is a drop but he's still popular with a lot of republicans. this notion i have to adprgr wih u and this is what you saw in

orgia and carolina. we are going to convince middle class and republican white women, if they voted for the guy who says i grabbed women last year. >> they're going against women and did not have any positive message to say. >> no one has liked her for 20 years. they do a lot better than chasing after soccer moms. they never have. >> occasional. >> i would also say this, look this is an investigation, i think mueller will report mid 2018, probably. we'll know. so in a way -- i totally agree

with you of trump's being point less talking about it. i would be working on a positive message on taxes and healthcare, you know, income or in equality or whatever. >> you heard it here first, democrats getting political advise from bill. >> they should not take it since republicans are taken it. >> are you surprised that there has not been more showcasing moments where democrats and republicans agree. the photo of russian sanctions where 98 senators and both parties agreed on russia. the opportunity that trump presents where there is a whole lot of ways he's outside and democrats are too mad about it. >> i would not just put it on democrats here. remember he gave it a gracious concession, victory speech, got, i wish it would have been a concession speech.

look at the moderate democrats. they were saying that and he poisoned the wealth and made it hard for democrats. >> a lot of questions all around. >> bill crystal, it is megan murphy and jason johnson, that does it for us. hi chuck. >> you know what i hope? >> i hope that there is no taping of this conversation. >> i love you chuck. >> again, you better hope there is no tapes. >> if it is thursday, the weight is over on the senate trump's care plan. tonight the now republican healthcare prescription and doubts within the gop. >> i think it looks a lot like obamacare actually. >> can anything cure questions within the party of the gop bill. >> i think it could take longer than a week. >> senat