>> let's try it again, mika. >> mike barnicle is here, former democratic congressman harold ford jr. >> hello, professor. >> and on capitol hill, senior politics reporter from "usa today," heidi prizbella. >> prisba! >> that's a goody. >> geez. >> my morning is made now because we zoomed in on mark halperin. >> that was t.j. over at cbs news. come on, t.j., stop hacking the feed! god, t.j., what's wrong with him? he's the worst. inside joke. we love you, t.j.

>> the future of federal health care policy is uncertain this morning after republicans were forced to pull their overhaul plan yesterday. it became clear the votes simply would not be there. to get the bill to the floor and maur majority leader mitch mcconnell addressed the press. >> we will not be on the bill this week but we're still working toward getting at least 50 people in a comfortable place. >> mr. leader, is your effort to repeal obamacare dead? >> no, we're still talking about it. i remember how challenging it was for the democrats when they were enacting this back in 2009 and 2010. it's a complicated subject. we have a lot of discuss going on. >> will your ongoing discussions involve democrats at all? >> we're not interested --

>> so they just weren't happy. >> this is the bus they get thrown under. pool video shows the president flanked by susan collins, lisa murkowski and dean heller. then came this tweet "trump says senate has chance to pass important health care bill. if it fails, he won't like it and that's okay. >> we have really no choice but to solve the situation. obamacare is a total disaster. it's melting down as we speak. rates are going up. in fact, it's very interesting, lisa, that you're sitting next to me because in alaska it was a 206%. a 206% increase in alaska. we're going to talk and see what we can do. this will be great if we get it done. if we done get it done, it's just going to be something that we're not going to like and that's okay and i stand thunder

that very well but i think we have a chance to do something very, very important for the public, very, very important for the people of our country that we love. >> behind the scenes, willie, everybody was stewing at donald trump because this is a continuation of what they did in the house where they sent over president bannon, who threatened all the house members. they did the same heavy-handed approach and the "new york times" is reporting today that mitch mcconnell called donald trump's handling of this something like incredibly stupid. >> he was talking specifically about those ads that we criticized earlier this week going after dean heller. attacking a republican. need every republican vote you can get. you had lisa murkowski and susan collins. susan collins has been a pretty hard no on this because of the medicaid rollback. they go home, they talk to the people in their district. it's probably going to be a long

week for a lot of them hearing from their people is how do you cobble a bill together that appeases both rand paul, who want complete repeal of obamacare, and susan collins, who has elements of obamacare she wants in her state. what does that bill look like and how do you get there? >> you just don't, mike barni e barnicle. ure nev-- you're never going to. you keep susan collins without losing the freedom caucus and other people in the house. >> this is the better care wr k reconciliation act. that's funny in its own term. after speaking to several staff members yesterday, more then a few of them republican, is that the president of the united states in this, the hallmark of

his administration is a nonparticipant. >> they told him to stay out of the way, right? >> yes. and that is astounding when you think of it. this is what he has built his early administration on, he and the republican party repealing obamacare, it's not happening and it might not ever happen. >> more than that, mika, his main pitch was i can get deals done. i know how to make deals. he's prove i don't know jun jusy insulting the house members and insulting the senate members. we warned him when he was on the cam papaig campaign, i'm going run over -- no, you're not. i know it looks look a dictatorship from whatever floor in trump tower. >> this is his number one pitch

in the country that he can make deals a double failure at the very least. here's susan collins. >> what is the big picture about why the president is struggling on corralling republicans? it seems he doesn't have the political capital most presidents do to get the party in line. >> this is the first president in our history who has neither political nor military experience. it has been a challenge for him to learn how to interact with congress and how to push his agenda forward. >> that's a nice way of putting it, that's very polite. >> it very polite, harold. it's a nice way to put it. again, this is a white house that has believed that you get things done by insulting members. you and i both know if a president comes and likes orders you to do something, you're just not going to do it.

in the not on are not going to do it you're going to go in the cloak room and say, hey. i can't even imagine what the senate cloak room is like. if newt gingrich would attack one of us, 74 of us in the freshman class would rise against him and vote down every bill until they made it right with one person. here you have dean heller, fighting for his political life in nevada and trump has husband goons write attack ads against republicans. a wildfire would sweep through the cloak room and. >> was rise up and say an attack against one is an attack against all. if dean doesn't have your back, you don't have our back. >> dean heller released some sort of statement now, tweets or statements. he said unless you convince me

of a, b and c and my governor. if was the president, i'd convene these governors. you had some in washington yesterday, including charlie baker, your governor, john hickhick enlooper, all talking about things working well with medicaid and things not working well. it would seem you should start there -- >> do you agree with me this will never pass with democrat being support? >> which is where i end up. you have democratic and republican governors. this is going to pass 25 democrats, 25 republicans a minimum or 32-28, 18, whatever the numbers may be. obama started off with his health care plan, expand accessibility, expand affordability and cut costs

while doing it. the problem with obamacare is the premiums are going up too fast. i was disappointed in listening to some democratic last night when they were saying the bill was taeserrible to the campaign finance reform. can tort reform -- is the income better than the age to consider. i said to the president, to joe, you will not pass tax reform, infrastructure reform or any of this if you take to attacking republican senators. for that matter, even democrats. >> he's going to need -- >> i want to get heidi halperin in hoar. let's break down this heller story. >> the new york city reports mitch mcconnell was not happy with the tactics of some supporters of president trump. they bought up ad time to

pressure senator heller who faces reelection. quote, the majority leader already rankled by mr. trump's tweets goading him to change senate rules to scuttle democratic fill i busters. mr. mcconnell, who has been toiling for weeks, mostly in private, to put together a measure to satisfy hardliners and moderates told mr. priebus that it not on jeopardized this bill's prospects but also imperilled mr. heller's already difficult reelection. "this just shows you they don't have the votes right now and they can't count on mine going forward o ". a call are asked, how do you

reason with a president who lies 97% of the time? heller responded it is frustrated to deal with a white house that is not 100% accurate. >> it's very polite of the senator. >> we do need to talk about the press briefing yesterday. >> we'll get to that. >> which was incredible. >> the press secretaries are incredible. this whole thing is unprecedented. >> it really is. >> it's crazy. >> incredibly stupid would be a mild way to put what this ham-fisted without has done in treating members of congress that they need to persuade. it seems like he's lost dean heller for good. so take that one off -- >> check. >> check. >> i mean, how do they guest this passed even two weeks from now when they come back from recess sm. >> there's a will the of process stuff to talk about and it's certainly part of the story. to me the big are thing is and this applies to dean heller as

much as it does to ted cruz or mike lee, they're not selling a product, they're selling the concept of, well, we can't fail because we hate obamacare and we have to pass this so we can move on. the white house, mitch mcconnell, you don't hear them talking with passion about improving the health care of americans and explaining with reality that there will be some losers and there will be some winners but right now they're just drowning in all this process stuff. >> so, mark, can we just again just strip this down? i think alapundit tweeted this a couple of days ago. it was sort of a joke but i think this does more to cut through where republicans are right now. these people have tried to reorder one-fifth or one-sixth of the american economy and impact 300 million americans' health care options all in a haphazard way so they could rush

through and scoop up enough savings and let's just say it, taking it from the poor in medicaid, so they could get enough savings, so they could have a tax reform bill where they gave away big tax cuts and didn't have to deal with reconciliatiowreck sill -- wreck hill -- reconciliation. the republican don't give a damn about the system. they want the tax cuts and off camera, they admitted as much. we just have to pass some health care bill and get some savings and then we can do a tax reform bill without reconciliation. is it any doubt they take on the toughest subject in a haphazard way? i'm going to climb mount everest right after i finish smoking a

carton of cigarettes. >> you have all these groups like the ama against the senate bill, you have the loudest voices, the accident ibs on the left and the right and don't have anybody in the party out there speaking including the -- b >> but, mark, what i said, haven't you heard that? we have to pass some health care bill so we can get to tax reform. this isn't about health care, it about tax reform. >> and it we have to get past this. you cannot reorder this much of the economy, you cannot scare so many people about the real life consequences without a big national conversation that says here's why this is going to mkek people's lives on balance better. they're drowning on process and

some of the most popular things aren't even being discussed. the potentially popular things they're not even trying to sell. >> the rational for many republicans has been we've got to vote on something, at least, because we made this promise last fall and all of last year, we were going to repeal and replace obamacare. so, yes, the vote has been delayed but when we get back from the july 4th recess, does not mitch mcconnell at last have to get this to the floor for a vote so he can say to his voters and rand paul can say to his voters, we tried, we tried to appeal and replace obamacare but these few senators blocked us from doing it? >> it's been the motto of republicans, even in the past was let's try and appeal to the iron fist of the tea party and then we can say at the end of it when it goes down in flames at least we tried. the numbers doesn't look good now and they may be even worse

when they get back just because some of the republicans wanted to be on the record after the fact because they were against it, the reason why, 20 states where there's republican senators, where medicaid was expanded and get what one of those states is, senator mitch mcconnell's state where one third of recipient, one third of the population is on medicaid. you have to wonder whether his heart is even in this. i know some of the very groups would be affected like the control minecoal miners. they had the ten poorest

counties in america and something like seven of them were from kentucky. mitch mcconnell, he's just going through the motions. >> members of the house, they're about to take a fourth of july break. they're going to hear from a lot of people who have a parent under medicare, medicaid. . we're talking about 1/6 of the economy. people live it each and every day with the increasing costs of medical care. but in normal times we've grown accustomed over the years to think, okay, things are now in the united states senate, that's where the adults are, the tea party isn't running rampant in the senate the way they are in the house. but if you speak to several

people at the staff level, they will tell you one of the elements here is the shadow of merri merrick garland. neither side will come to fix this. >> the garland effect is the same. we'll from justice kennedy what he may or may not do. at least there's been a greater education around medicaid. medicaid has had this stigma as something that poor people teak advantage of. we've learned that nursing homes, middle-class americans e rely heavily on medicare

dollars. her answer was forceful, swift and genuine. you have to hope that's the direction that we're headed. i'm worried joe's overall thesis here could be one that could continue to pervade the white house where you heard susan collins echo this white house just doesn't know how to work with congress and their idea of working with congress is you better do this. and grown men and women elected are not going to react positively. >> especially in a dictatorship. >> and a president who has a 36% rating in polls. he can look at polls that are witchcraft and say look, i'm at 58%. the senators knows he at 35%, 36%. he's lost 25% the republican base and he's a guy that they can go up against but, mika,

there were a couple of republicans yesterday saying if we don't get this done, we're going to have to work with democrats. well, work with democrats. you're going to have to work with democrats because republican governors understand they need medicaid for the poorest among them. >> not even the poorest. >> that's what we're talking about. the poorest and talking about rural hospitals, as you said, talking about our parents and grandparents depend on medicaid and, they're going to have to work with democrats because they're not going to get both the moderates and the freedom caucus together. >> i think everybody came into this thinking this president pitched that he could make deals. he has clearly proved he cannot. >> he can't make deals within his own party. >> he can't even make a deal within his own party when they're in charge. that's unbelievable. >> i think senator lindsey graham had one of the quotes of

the week when he said if you're waiting for the president to have your back, you better watch it. >> your own president, your own party. >> it wasn't directly from the president but this pro-trump group was going to spend $1.3 million and run tv ad against a republican. >> because he's not sure he's going to vote for a health care bill that the president called -- >> failure at a whole new level. >> there's a front page piece in "the washington post" today pointing out what everybody in the country knows. this president, any president, you're with him either because you fear him or you love him. nobody fears him and very few people love him other than his own family and the united states senate. >> yeah. you don't even want to -- well -- >> still ahead on "morning joe," we'll get to that incredible,

chang in the white house briefing rooms when cameras were actually rolling. >> plus one of the republicans opposing the gop bill senator ron johnson joins us. we'll talk to senator chris murphy of connecticut as well and congressman adam schiff, the ranking member of the house intel committee. first karins with the forecast. bill? >> all the problems in the west with the fires. this was near prescott arizona. this was called the goodwin fire. it flared up in a hurry. one town of about 15 people had to evacuate. so far they say all the structures have been protected. right now there are many blazes going in the west. red flag warnings continue. we're counting 23 wildfires burning. it's early for this time of your to have this many fires. as far as severe weather goes,

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during the press coverage yesterday, sarah huckabee sanders mentioned t-- got into n intense back and forth with a white house reporter. >> if we make the slightest mistake, the slightest word is off, it is an absolute tirade from a lot of people in this room. but news outlets get to go on day after day and cite unnamed sources, use stories without sources, have, you know, you mentioned the story where they had to have reporters resign. >> come on, you're inflaming everybody right here right now with those words. this administration has done that as well. why in the name of heavens any one of us are replaceable and any one of us if we don't get it

right, the audience has the opportunity to turn the channel or not lead us. you have been elected to serve for four years at least. there's no option other than that. we're here to ask you questions. you're here to provide the answers and what you just did is inflammatory to people all over the country who look at it and see, once again, the president's right and everybody else out here is fake media and everybody in this room is only trying to do their job. >> i disagree completely. first of all, i think if anything has been inflamed, it's the dishonesty that often takes place by the news media and i think it is outrageous for you to accuse me of inflaming a story when i was simply trying to respond to his question. >> yeah, no. that reporter seen in the exchange is brian carom, the executive director reporter from washington, d.c. he'll be our guest next hour.

heidi pryzbyly. >> sarah huckabee said we all get to go on and on essentially promoting untruths. that is so wrong. and what happened at cnn the other day is a testament to that. when we get it wrong, those three reporters were forced to resign. so if this white house and it's been given the opportunity several times wants to highlight reporting that is untrue and that merits a correction, they are free every day to do that. they have that podium. they take an entire democratic institution, which is all of us, and say that we are fake news. that is why so many reporters have had it up to here, which is that we are not fake news and if you have a specific issue with a specific story or a specific reporter, please, by all means take that up and get your correction but do not vilify a

vital democratic institution. >> and the greatest, i mean, the greatest irony, mark halperin, is this lecture is coming from the greatest liar that's ever sat in the white house. the "new york times" highlighted a thousand lies. i mean, to compare nixon to this guy is absolutely ridiculous. he lies every day. a lot of times he lies every minute. he forgets the lie that he told five minutes ago. >> and then he props up people like sarah huckabee sanders to back up his lie and she does it with a straight face. it's incredibly disturbing. >> what's also so funny is the fact that sarah huckabee sanders and donald trump will talk about unnamed sources and stories. this white house will call every second that you will take their calls and they will give you a story, mark, but it has to be unnamed source. they have to be off the record.

and a lot of times they will call you just to trash other people that are working inside the white house. or they'll say, hey, if you can get this out there but you can't attach my name to it, i mean, what raging hypocrites they all are to complain about unnamed sources when they throw more unnamed sourced stories out than any white house i've ever dealt with. >> ever. >> there have been a lot of low points from in a podium in in administration with lack of respect for the first amendment or lack of seriousness about explaining themselves. i thought that was one of the lowest points of the entire administration. >> despicable. >> what sarah said in her tone, her substance ander emphasis. it's not about the press and the white house, it's about the public interest and demanding honesty from the administration. i get why they like the attack the press. it rallies the people who helped

him get elected and i get it's what the president likes to hear but that was a low point and everybody in the white house and elsewhere should look at the die na -- dynamics and think about if that's the way they want the white house to run. >> donald trump is not going to be in the white house forever and they're going to have to go on and got jobs after he's gone and he will throw them all under the bus. he throws everybody under the bus at the end and he'll throw them under the bus as well. i have to say, mike barnicle, this is so short sighted because you can look at every public opinion poll and americans trust news outlets more than they trust donald trump, and also donald trump is on making the media stronger. i mean, we have record ratings for us at "morning joe," record ratings for subscription increases to "new york times,"

"washington post," et cetera, et cetera. everybody is actually getting more viewers by holding them accountable. and when they do things like that, they only feed in to -- they only make us stronger. >> it certainly is short sighted. it almost assuredly is a strategy. and the trump administration has difficulty getting enough votes to pass a health care bill. the trump administration has difficulty in formulating a policy in the middle east but they have a fairly successful strategy of running the press down and it's working to a certain extent. >> it's a 36% strategy. >> okay. >> it's a losing strategy. >> here's the difference, though, joe. the difference is we in the media, when we make a mistake, we report it. you know we make a mistake. when they make a mistake, they say nothing. >> or they lie about it. >> well, maybe a little bit of helpful insight for sarah huckabee sanders, someone might want to tell her she's working

for a president who forced his press secretary on day one to go out and lie about crowd size and obsessed over crowd size and he did that with his tail between his legs and ruined himself credibility from day one. if you want to take a look into trump's history there's a million things can you find. here's a "washington post" post report. fake covers of "time" magazine. he was so needy he had not been on time yet that he made his own. okay? this is your boss. this is your boss. he put this on display at at least five of his clubs. several exclamation points, the headlines, something "time" magazine doesn't do, the make believe cover is dated march 1st, 2009 and highlights trump's reality show "the apprentice." time has since asked trump to remove the phony cover, the

phony, pathetic made-up cover of "time" magazine. that's your boss. >> the white house couldn't comment on whether the white house knew it wasn't a real cover. >> you could do some covers of yourself. you could just make them up! >> i don't have to because as you know, gq, how many times have they had me on their cover? that is this month's "gq," i wouldn't go hanging that -- "mystified tops the charts." >> i wouldn't go putting that up in my club. >> "roll tide!" >> let's talk about how short sighted donald trump is. he wants the press to go out and

it's so short sighted. he's got president bannon's -- >> no, seriously, how did you do that? >> i didn't hear that. what did you say? >> he has a screw loose. there's something wrong! something wrong! >> president bannon's strategy is getting them 35%, 36% in polls. he still believes this is a positive strategy when americans desperately want their white house to work. >> the other thing i would add is i think there's something larger to be concerned about. has the press occasionally made a mistake in the pursuit of a legitimate story about russia meddling in our election? yes. but what he does and what the white house does is discredit anyone or anything that crosses their narrative or undermines what they have to say, whether it's the press or ceo or intel agencies or the courts. that is a very dangerous thing that's happening right now in

realtime that our institutions are being discredited or undermined. that's a long-term problem. it may get them through the day but you have people now to don't believe essential truths. >> he ejected an anti-journalism virus into the culture. >> coming up, is he teal ricecis on set and senator chris murphy. >> stunning, superficial. >> you need to do that. >> the memory of your father lives on the front page of "gq." (baby crying)

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joining us now from washington, lord, he's busy, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. good to you have on board this morning. . >> chris murphy, tell us. the republicans look like they're having a little trouble on their side of the aisle. do you think peace may break out at some pount and republicans

and democrats can get together to fix one part of our economy? >> it's up to reap. mitch mcconnell poked his head and tossed a bill out there that was widely unpopular in his caucus and then he pulled the door shut so they're back in secret negotiations this week and next week. yeah, we've been very clear we would love nothing more than to sit down with republicans and keep what's working with the affordable care act and fix the parts that aren't. they're raising rates because of the instability that president trump has injected into the market. i think democrats and republicans could work to fix that. they've got to take the big tax cuts for the rich off the table, take gutting medicaid off the table and say that our goal should be to insure more people not less people. but if they do those things, we

can absolutely have a conversation but they're in charge. so that's ultimately mitch mcconnell's decision, whether he works together and continues to cobble together 50 votes. >> leader mcconnell said yesterday they haven't talked to democrats because democrats have no interest in talking to us about health care and there's no middle ground here and they believe you've been obstructionist on this. so if you can lay out for republicans maybe watching in the gym right now, where are the areas you believe obamacare needs improvement they might work with you on? >> this is a wonderful claim in a mitch mcconnell max that democrats haven't been able to work with them. they moved to reconciliation, which is the process where they pass this only with republicans, the day after they were -- >> that's the way you passed your health care votes. >> no, that was passed with 60

votes in the senate. rk sill ya reconciliation wasn't used in 2009. it was all democrats but it wasn't reconciliation. democrats want stability for these exchanges, republicans want more flexibility on the exchanges. they want perhaps nor product that has less requirement and protections built around them. i think there's a conversation to be had between stability and flexibility but that can't happen if the goal is to move millions from the ranks that are insured. we have to make sure our goal is the same. >> do you think there's any chance of that realistically. but really is that going to happen? >> not right now. people like lisa murkowski and susan collins i think are genuinely interested in talking to democrats. i'm a progress of democrat, i

would sit down with them in a heart beat. they don't have a license to do that for mitch mcconnell. he feels they have to play to the base. their agenda has been to pass on massive tax cuts for the wealthy. that's what's at the form of this bill. that's their priority. if that's the case, then there is not a lot of opportunity for agreement with democrats. >> so, senator, let's talk about another element of the aptly named better care wreck sireconn act. that's what republicans are calling this bill and let's talk about, say, bridgeport, connecticut and someone said i just heard or read bits and pieces about what's going to be cut, should i go out and buy a pull-out couch for dad who might

be coming home from the nursing home? >> there's no way around the fact that if connecticut has to endure a billion dollars of medicaid cuts, we're going to have to make decisions between who gets health care and who doesn't. who gets that nursing home slot and who doesn't. maybe there are decisions between kids and seniors. there are a couple states that have moved to four days of school a week. if you start passing along that big a medicaid cut to the state, they're going to have to make some very difficult decisions. so, yeah, people are freaked out in connect. -- connecticut. we had parents come, many of them parents of disabled children, who didn't know how they would survive in this passed. i think they feel good and they're going to be out there talking to their senators to make sure this doesn't happen all next week. >> heidi has a question. >> there's no doubt insurers

have bailed but this has happened before trump came in like with humana. the pashs who ca-- patients who came on to obamacare were too sick, too costly. how do you fix that underlying structural problem other than making that mandate real, forcing them to buy into the market and spreading out the risk pool? >> we can restore payments that republicans stripped out of the affordable care act. we can clam map down on very si patients joining the exchanges during non-open enrollment periods and remember that before donald trump took office, we were on pace for record enrollment and thesesurers

have been very clear because president trump has been clear he's not going to pay them. by the way, cbo says if you leave this law alonalone, therel be stability. the death spiral only occurs if you pass the republican bill. >> thank you so much. we're just looking at the reconciliation issue. conservatives say it was passed under reconciliation when it went back and only democrats, 52-47 after they lost their super majority. liberals say no. "the washington post" on january 8th, 2016 does say to pass the obama repeal bill they used reconciliation, the same procedure democrats used to pass a bill when they held both the house and the senate. regardless of whether you want

to call it reconciliation or not and fights are breaking out online, we're going to need democrats and republicans this administration or members of the republican party have set up a scenario where that's possible. somebody's going to have to be -- >> it's always possible because whether democrats want to admit it, the republicans want to admit it, the republican bill will not be passed and obamacare needs to be fixed. >> the coalition has to agree on what the goal is. if you look at the republican senators who were against t half of them are against it because they didn't think the cuts were severe enough. another half against it because they felt the cuts were too severe. the president has to make a choice, which side are you on and you build the coalition. right now seems like they're trying to appease everybody and it's obvious you can't achieve that. >> you have a finite number of

votes on the right side saying the cuts aren't big enough. there's only one way to go. there's only way to go. just as a matter of simple ar arithmet arithmetic, you have to go more to the middle and get more votes. >> some won't get either. senator warren who wants a single payor system, how do you find the middle group? still ahead republican john ron johnson was a no vote on his party's health care bill but he has some specific steps for how republicans can get it passed after the fourth of july, and he joins us just ahead. "morning joe" will be right back. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me,

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it came out yesterday under the republican health care plan 22 million people will lose health insurance over the next decade, 22 million, or as trump put it, like half my inauguration crowd.

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this is a cool story i've been reading about bono, when he went to war against the i.r.a. 1987. you see that story? >> it's cool. >> it wasn't an easy thing to do. dangerous thing to do. there was the i.r.a. explosion. >> yes, killed about 15 people. >> killed about 15 people, and he went on stage when it was still the hot war and went after a lot of his own fans, basically saying stop it, they went out saying "sunday bloody sunday." it's hard for people now to realize what a risk he and the band took back then and the who were playing in the 1960s, they told them, you know, they used the union jack and the i.r.a. reached out and said you can play in northern ireland, i wouldn't put the "union jack" on stage with you. you know what they said? okay. >> welcome back to "morning joe." >> a good management call.

>> it's wednesday, june 28th. with us mike barnacle. >> what is going on here? what is going on here? >> we're tired of you. >> mike barnacle's here! >> legendary. >> former democratic congressman and political msnbc analyst mark halpern and the great capitol news correspondent kasie hunt. look at her yesterday going after them with questions. >> she does it every day. >>ese' all over the place, lives at the capitol basically. >> essentially. >> the best in the business. >> yes, actually. so republicans will not be able to repeal obamacare before the fourth of july after all. yesterday it became clear the votes simply would not be there and majority leader mitch mcconnell decided to address the press. >> we will not be on the bill this week, but we're still

working toward getting at least 50 people in a comfortable place. >> reporter: mr. leader is your effort to repeal obamacare dead? >> no, no. we're continuing to talk about it. it's a very complicated subject. i remember how challenging it was for the democrats when they were enacting this in 2009 and 2010, a big complicated subject, we have a lot of discussions going on. >> reporter: will your ongoing discussions involve democrats at all? >> they're not in participating with us. >> mark halpern, talk about the complicated relationship between mitch mcconnell and the white house. >> well, you know, the white house delegated a lot. the president tweeted a few moments ago fake news says he's not involved. >> that's mike barnical said he was not engaged. >> he's nowhere near as involved as a formal president would be in the first six months of his administration trying to pass this major initiative. we talked last hour trying to work with democrats. i don't think there's a bill that could pass the house that

any democratic senator would vote for. >> right. >> i don't know that that's going to be a solution to getting some legislation actually signed into law. >> mark, through the process of elimination and i'll ask you and ask everybody else, are there enough votes to pass a freedom caucus bill in the senate? >> i think there may be. >> no, the answer is no. thank you. >> i think the only path they have -- >> wrong! >> is for mcconnell to -- >> turning into mclaughlin. >> mcconnell could give more money in the short term to the moderates, long-term to the more conservative members of the conference and then tell the house take it or leave it. >> wrong! and let me tell you why it's wrong and not only because i want to sound like john mclaughlin there, but also the one thing you can't fudge are the numbers of the medicaid cuts. you can't fudge them. you can lie if you're donald trump, you can lie about

whatever you want to lie about. if you're republicans, and you feel like lying about saying nobody's going to lose their health care coverage, you can do that, too. but you slash $750 billion, mike barnacle, from medicaid, after you slashed another 300 or 400 billion in an underlying budget, over $1 trillion in medicaid cuts, that destroys health care in rural america in trump america. we've said it again, let me say it again, not just for the poor. for the middle class and upper middle class, parents in children home, children in nicu units, you name it, it devastates health care for half of america. >> yesterday angus king, just had chris murphy from connecticut, math is the reality, that's why it's a no vote in maine. the regional hospitals, rural hospitals the employer. chris murphy talking about nursing homes in connecticut, state after state with the

medicare cuts choose between five days of school or four days of school. you have a child special needs you have to worry what you're going to do with that child because of medicaid cuts. you have to worry about hey do i get the castro pullout cuts for grandpa coming home from the nursing home, and that's state after state after state. >> i go with the convertible. >> better than the castro? >> but we're quibbling over details here. >> i have one in my rooms. >> very nice. kasie hunt, how this could be pulled together for republicans or maybe it can't. you tell us. dean heller, susan collins are not going to vote for a bill that pulls back $772 billion worth of medicaid. rob portman is not going to vote for that but might rand paul, mike lee, ted cruz, somehow be compelled to pull back for something that doesn't fully repeal obamacare which is their criticism it's too soft, it doesn't go far enough in terms of their conservative values and getting rid of obamacare. is there a middle there for them?

>> well, willie, from mark's previous analysis yes in theory you could do the tradeoffs to try and kind of very carefully balance the see-saw you outlined. they wrote the bill with the deep medicaid cuts to cut a deal and the problem is that fundamental math turns out is completely unpattatable to the republican senate. they want to lean more heavily towards ted cruz and mike lee because they know eventually the bill will have to pass the house and if they pass something in the senate that's overwhelmingly tilted towards collins and murkowski and the other moderates, then the path is tough once you get further out. at the end of the day the middle of the conference, murkowski and johnson, eventually there are, and this is how congress, it's a broken process compared to how it used to work, but it's gotten to the point where it's going to -- there are going to be pieces of the health care market

that are so broken everybody on both sides is overwhelmed with people telling them it needs to be fiblxed, when you see small pieces of bipartisan legislation. i am skeptical a big bill like this will ever go through with the kind of fanfare the. the is looking for. >> they may have fixed. there's another layer of this, you talked about t you've got popular republican governors actually have the highest approval rating of any elected officials across the country. >> right. >> and in part it's because you've got somebody like brian sandoval in nevada he wants the medicaid expansion. the poor depend it, seniors disproportionately depend oit and middle class people depend on it, so he's now working with dean heller, and they're holding town hall meetings and teleconference calls, and they're shoulder to shoulder. heller is running for re-election. he wants what sandoval has and other republican governors

across america that say yes, we need the medicaid expansion. >> it will be interesting to see if you have republican governors working with democratic congressmen having town halls around the state and violence versa, democratic governors with republican congressmen remains to be seen. trump/obama made the same mistake on health care, they outsourced it to the congress to get it on. obama kept his party together. he got 06 votes to get the first hurdle done in the senate but kept his party together. two, there's no doubt these hospital systems to mike's point, they're the largest -- put aside unbelievable care they deliver, they're the number one employer in cities across the country ranking from 7 to 25. >> by the way, whenever there were cuts in medicaid or medicare the hospitals would come to us and say listen, let me just show you how many people in your district conservative joe scarborough have jobs because of medicaid. let me show you conservative joe

scarborough how many republicans have parents in our facilities because of medicaid. let us show you, joe scarborough -- >> can't emphasize that enough. >> -- middle class children are in our nicu unit which will be shut down if you slash medicaid and medicare for tax cuts. you look at the numbers and you go you know what? 's that's not good for my district or this country. >> one of the positives of this in terms of the overall body politic is that when i was in congress and you were in congress it was running and familiar narrative, democrats would say we would argue, some rightly so the republicans don't care about the poor, they want to cut programs and republicans say about democrats they want to spend money and no regard for the overall deficit. you see republican senators, sass, johnson, collins, portman, heller, caputo, from the right saying for the reasons we enumerated here caring about medicaid and understanding how crushing it would be to the bottom lines of their states and

saying no we won't do this. i think that's a positive for the body politic that narrative has been disrupted in a massive way. >> i think we're finding not the center but conservatives with a small c stepping forward saying no radical changes, no radical disruption disruptions, no radical plans on radically reforming one-sixth of the economy because we want tax cuts. >> it's kind of interesting, you would know more about it, you and harold because you both served in congress the staff element. when obamacare was passed rahm emmanuel knew what the numbers were. reince priebus is a missing element. totally missing. >> he's fighting for his job and also has a boss attacking members, so what is reince supposed to do when mitch mcconnell calls up and says the president is being incredibly stupid? the answer is yes he is. >> like everyone else in the administration he's been

undermined. >> the president needs reince. now to this, we have a guest coming up, i want to move this along, during the white house briefing sarah huckabee sanders criticized the media for its coverage of the trump administration and what she called the trump-russia hoax. after mentioning a cnn article recently retracted, she got into a tense back-and-forth with one white house reporter. >> if we make the slightest mistake, the slightest word is off, it is just an absolute tirade from a lot of people in this room, but news outlets get to go on day after day and cite unnamed sources, use stories without sources, have, you know, you mentioned the story where they had to have reporters resign. >> come on, you're enflaming everybody right here right now

those words. this administration has done that as well. why in the name of heaven, any one of us, right, are replaceable and any one of us in we don't get it right the audience has the opportunity to turn the channel or not read us. >> i think -- >> you have been elected to serve for four years at least. there is no option other than that. we're here to ask you questions. you're here to provide the answers and what you just did is inflammatory to people all over the country who look at it and say see once again the president is right and everybody else out here is fake immediate, and everybody in this room is only trying to do their on. >> i just disagree completely first of all. if anything has been enflamed, it's the dishonesty that often takes place by the news media, and i think it is outrageous for you to accuse me of enflaming a story when i was simply trying to respond to his question. >> joining us is the reporter who took part in that exchange, brian caron. thank you for being with us.

>> well done. >> brian looks very shook up by his encounter yesterday. >> yes. brian i heard you on "hardball" saying we suspect to be true, this was a long time coming. this has been something we've been watching and covering this administration for six months now and watching how it treated the press and the relationship there. just elaborate a little bit more about what you wanted to say yesterday if. you had even more time. >> well, the big thing is, it's very disingenuous for the white house to do what they did, first of all, that was the first, first on camera briefing in what, more than a week, and she took the opportunity first thing off the bat to go after the media. she was trying to go after cnn specifically, and the media in general. we've been called the enemy of the people from that white house, told we are fake news, we are bullied and brow beaten every day and i pretty much have had enough of it. there's really only two ways to deal with a bully, turn them

into your friend, i don't think that's a possibility or let them know exactly what's up ayn you're not going to take the bullying anymore. we can't take the bullying anymore. it's undermining the fourth of state, it's undermining the first amendment. the reporters i know in that room, even breitbart those people are responsible for the government to sit there and undermine essentially what is an essential checks and balances in the system, it's bit heartening. it's unnerving. i can't take it anymore. it's nuts. >> it might be more than that. it may be more than disheartening. mike barnicle? >> what it speaks to is dissolving the independent media, and that's what it's trying to co-opt the media, make us, if we don't print what they want or broadcast what they like we're automatically fake media. what was funny, sarah sat there

yesterday and asked to us look at a video and she wasn't even sure the video was vetted and was factual, but if factual, man, it was bad. so you're promoting in essence false media, and accusing the rest of us of being false media. >> even making up your own "time" magazine cover. >> so brian, my belief is that this is a pre-meditated strategy of the white house. this is not something off the cuff. this is not something that comes up with an occasional piece that they deem to be offensively wrong to them, to their point of view, whatever. this is a pre-meditated anti-journalism strategy that i fear has taken some hold in this country. do you buy into that? >> i agree with you. >> totally. >> 100%. it's one of the few strategies i've seen from this white house, and it has been ongoing, and look, i don't lump everybody in with that. they've done some things that are incredibly open, adding skype to their press briefings,

bringing in members of the cabinet for briefings, but at the same time when the president of the united states, even this morning, is tweeting out fake media, and telling us we're the enemy of the people, he's enflaming the very people who got him in office. he's speaking to his base and he's trying to undermine the very essence of what we do, and that's not good for this republic. it's not good for this country. it's an athea and we have to stand up to it and more of us have to stand up to it every day. someone joked with me last night, do you think they'll pull my press pass? i hope not but i hope others will, you know, stand up and be counted as well. >> and stand with you. brian karem, thank you. amen. >> thanks, brian. >> to everything you said. kasie, stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe" the president of planned parenthood, cecile richard weighs in on the fight over health care and senator dick durbin. first republican senator ron johnson didn't like the bill and didn't like the secretive process behind it.

how he's reacting this morning now that a vote on his party's plan has been delayed. we'll be right back. ray's always been different. last year, he said he was going to dig a hole to china. at&t is working with farmers to improve irrigation techniques. remote moisture sensors use a reliable network to tell them when and where to water. so that farmers like ray can compete in big ways. china. oh ... he got there. that's the power of and.

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for only $34.90 more per month. call today. comcast business. built for business. joining us from capitol hill, republican senator ron johnson of wisconsin. good to have you on board this morning. >> good morning. >> so senator, where are we right now, how do republicans get to 50 votes and how do they get your vote? >> first of all let me correct the record. i never said i was no on this bill. i was very hard no in terms of taking a vote this week. that was absurd because we didn't have the information and now we're starting to get information and i've got some breaking news. we gave you a chart, i'm not sure you're using it but the headline figure is 15 million americans lose coverage the first year, using a baseline from march of 2016 when these marks were unstable but nowhere

near where they are today. the recent waistline from january 2017 not used on the individual market there's no difference. that was 7 million of the 15 million. it's hard to follow. if we use up-to-date cbo baselines on the individual group market instead of lass of 7 million uninsured it's no difference, 19 and 19 million. that is bigs now because the discorporation of the original cbo report is just wrong because it's comparing against a year and three month old information so that's all i was asking for, guys. we need more time, we need more information and here's the good news. the cbo score for the senate bill shows about $200 billion of additional deficit reduction in order to have this thing passed to match with the house we only need 119 billion. that $200 billion deficit reduction will give us leeway to

make sure we can get the support and pass this bill. >> so it sounds like you're moving towards a yes vote. is that correct? >> well, like senator murphy, these marks are collapsing. we have to do something. anything we pass is not going to be perfect so maybe what we have to do is the democrats passed theirs on a partisan basis, maybe we do this and hopefully we can take their offer and work together to actually fix our health care system. i think that would be best for the american people. >> mark halperin? >> a lot of the faith people had the senate could produce something seems to rest with leader mr. mcconnell. is he overrated as someone who can bring this about? what is it about people think he can make this happen? >> i'm going to talk about my role and what i've been trying to drive say problem-solving process which starts with information. that seems to be foreign to this place. we argue about policy absent of information. now we are starting to get information.

the information i'm seeing can lead to a good result and i have to dispel i heard senator murphy talk about the goals. the goals aren't to take more people off the rolls. the goals are to reduce premiums so more people can afford coverage, to make sure medicaid is sustainable for future generations. the go el al is to stop mortgag our children's future. in 2008 we spent $200 billion on medicaid. this year spend close to $400 billion on medicaid. that's double spending in nine years. i don't think people are going to be dying because of what republican also do. we're trying to save medicaid and stop the mortgaging of our children's future. >> kasie hunt? >> senator, you mentioned that you may have to do what democrats did with obamacare back in 2009, pass it only with republican votes. aren't you making the same mistake there? why not skip that part, be

talking about 60 votes right now and not 50? >> first of all i did not agree with leadership when they immediately said we're going to do this on a purely partisan basis. we should have focused on the damage done by obamacare, the skyrocketing premiums. folks of bill clinton we're talking about, people working 60 hours a week couldn't afford insurance. we should have been focusing on the damage done pointing out who caused that damage and asking our democrat colleagues to fix their mess. that was the decision made so here we are. we're going through the process, i hope we pass a big, i wish were bipartisan. it's not like democrats are stepping up to the plate. their solution is a single payor system. folks we know what a single payor system looks like, v.a. system that spends money and a lot of problems with that. i don't think that's what the american people want. we want lower premiums so more people can afford coverage. >> senator johnson are harold ford. you had members of your state's medical community express

concerns about this bill because of the unique way in which you administer medicaid dollars in wisconsin. there's an argument this bill as it's currently configured would make that hard to continue. how do you answer that and what proposals are you making to accommodate some of those concerns? >> i'm concerned because we have that disparity between the expansion states and nonexpansion states but harold like you said wisconsin is a great model. the only state that closed the coverage gap caused by obamacare can good governance and what we're trying to do, devolve the management of medicaid back down to the states, the 50 models where we can administrate more efficiently and effectively, more compassionately honestly. that's a real problem, one of the things i'm fighting for, maybe the $200 billion of additional deficit reduction, maybe those are some of the things we can use to make sure we don't lock in that disparity between expansion states and nonexpansion states. >> senator ron johnson thank you

so much for being on the show. >> greatly appreciate it. coming up -- >> kind of sounds like he's moving into the yes column, doesn't it? >> he wanted to be clear his opposition was to the process, not to the content. >> he wanted to read the bill first. >> congressman adam schiff asked the government to go hacking during the campaign. the california democrat joins us next on "morning joe." ♪ you might not ever just stand there, looking at it. you may never even sit in the back seat. yeah, but maybe you should. ♪ (laughter) ♪

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they were obviously investigating russia's attempt to influence the 2016 election and they asked me to come forward to give to the best of my knowledge what i knew about that and i was happy to cooperate with the committee in their investigation of russian interference with the democratic process in the united states, chairman asked me to respect the fact that i would, that the specific questions and answers

would stay in the room and not come out here to the cameras. >> that was former clinton campaign chair mon john podesta whose hacked personal emails were the focal point of the election. joining us from washington, ranking member of the committee democratic congressman adam schiff of california. we want to ask you more about that but i'm curious what your take is on the white house calling the whole thing the russia hoax. >> well, of course this is a continuation of president strategy to try to demean, downplay the investigation and the irony this week which is so inescapable is the president is criticizing his predecessor for not doing more to speak out on russia, at the very time the president, the current president is refusing to speak out on russia. the most important thing the president of the united states could do today to protect us in the future is to acknowledge what russia did to help the country prepare for when they may do this again, to develop a national consensus that no

matter who is helps or who it hurts both parties will reject any foreign interference. that is the single most important way to inoculate the country against foreign interference and the president is not doing it. instead is still blaming his predecessor. >> willie? >> so let me ask you about a tweet you sent out, congressman, where you are addressing president trump. no, mr. president. president obama did not want to be perceived as helping clinton. that was his mistake. everything since has been yours. what do you think was the core mistake of the obama administration? we're talking about that "washington post" piece last week, one former administration official was saying "we kind of choked in regards to our response to russia's interference. what should the obama administration have done that it did not do? >> well, i think what they should have done, and you know, senator feinstein and i were making this case in real time, so this isn't simply our monday morning quarterbacking, we were urging the president to come out and make attribution early, to

declassify as much as he could about the russian intervention and pursue sanctions then, not wait until after the election. as it turned out senator feinstein and i had to to odo o own attribution because we couldn't successfully persuade the administration to do it. when they did it the following month in october before the election it wasn't enough to impress upon the public the seriousness of what russia was doing and i think they did that for perhaps understandable reasons. they didn't want to be perceived as influencing the outcome of the election. they didn't want to play into a narrative that there was an effort to rig the election. >> but congressman, shouldn't the security of our election system and of our democracy, frankly, of a foreign government intervening superseded any perception problems or narrative problems they were worried about? >> absolutely. absolutely. and indeed this was precisely the case that senator feinstein and i were making.

we didn't make that successfully. they did make attribution but only in a written statement by two administration officials, the head of the office of national intelligence as well as the secretary of dhs, but you're absolutely right. i think that the american public's need to know outweighed those other considerations, all of which could have been managed but the most important thing was not to wait until after the election to tell the american people what a foreign power was trying to do, and as well to take steps to deter further interference during the campaign, because one of the other concerns that i had was that, in the absence of a more forceful response and in the absence of attribution, they were giving a green light to continued russian intervention. >> kasie hunt has a question. kasie? >> congressman, you heard from john podesta yesterday. some of your colleagues on the democratic side suggested that

that was a republican push. i'm wondering if you agree with that. did you learn any valuable from mr. owe des ta and what do you hope to learn from roger stone in july? >> i think it was valuable to bring john podesta in. part of our mission is not only to determine what the russians did and whether the russians had the help of any u.s. persons, but also what was the u.s. government response? how did they respond, how did the u.s. government, the fbi, the department of homeland security respond when we learned the russians were in our computers? how did they respond when john podesta learned that his emails had been hacked? this was obviously went to the core of our democratic process, and we need to learn because as james comey said, the russians will be back or more accurately in my view, the russians have never left. so i think his testimony was helpful, was important. we should not be afraid to find out the answers to any of these questions, and this is i think a

core area of our interest. in terms of mr. stone, obviously there's been a lot said in the public sphere. i don't want to get into too much detail about it, but you know, he has said at various times that he was in contact with julian assange, that he had direct twitter communications with gooser for two, this known cutout for russian intelligence and of course he made those statements that john podesta's time in the barrel was coming, and then of course john podesta's emails were hacked and published. so i think there's a lot that's in the public domain that will be a subject of interest, but i don't want to get into too many of the particulars. >> congressman adam schiff, thank you very much. >> thank you. and now this, former acting attorney general sally yates is speaking out against the trump administration, arguing the president's behavior should not just be graded on whether or not he committed impeachable offenses. take a listen.

>> bob mueller is going to be deciding whether or not crimes were committed that could then be used for prosecution or for impeachment. surely that's not our bar. that's not the standard of conduct that we're looking for, from our president, or our administration. it shouldn't just be whether you committed a felony or not. while i have total confidence in bob mueller and his ability to conduct this investigation, i don't think that we should just be putting all of our hopes in well, that will tell us whether anything bad happened here. there are facts here that should be alarming to us as a country that fall short of facts that would establish a basis for impeachment or for prosecution. >> see i -- that's exactly what i have, would love to express as eloquently as she did, that we have got a number of issues here that may not be crimes at all, but are not the norm, that there's, he's not, there's not a

stability there from the president that you want from a president. there's not truthfulness. there's not love of country. he is questioning every tenet of what this country is about and every day it appears that we become more desensitized to it. >> sally yates is absolutely correct in what she said and yet adam schiff just went around the edges of this, but some americans, maybe many americans seem disinterested in the entire russian story, and what adam schiff was talking about just earlier, just a few moments ago is the cia officially puts us on notice, puts the congress on notice and the president on notice, and early august last year, that russia has cyber attacked the united states, an act of war, and it seems that there was a level of disinterest in congress about this, that there was no outcry in congress about this, all during august, during most of september, until the first week in october, when

finally the white house spoke out about it. so i don't know where we are on this. >> in relationship with the media is beyond disheartening. >> i don't understand, there's so much of this i don't understand. willie you had tom cotton in the spring of 2016 pushing the administration to get out and talk about russia, and what was happening with russia. you had others, adam schiff saying he was pushing the administration to get out and talk more about russia. it obviously was a terrible miscalculation. they did bobble the ball but i think beyond everything else that we're going through right now, i want to know, as an american, in september, if the russians are actively trying to influence my election, and i want to take it up with my local supervisor of election. what are you doing to make sure that my vote's going to be counted? are you on a machine that can be hacked by the russians? how do you know? we should -- >> this is incredible reporting. >> we should have a national

conversation from september to -- from october and into november about our enemy, because they basically have declared themselves our enemy with their actions trying to hack our election and why didn't the white house, why didn't the senators consider that important? >> i've been struck by the number of democrats, as we just heard adam schiff, democrats saying the obama administration fell short in the way they communicated this to the american public and to the way they responded to russia with it. what i was trying to get at with my question to congressman schiff is, i believe personally and maybe you all agree with me, that the preservation of democracy should take precedent over worries about whether or not they think there will be a narrative that they stepped in on behalf of hillary clinton. that's going to come out anyway. we had that on the other side, they said they were helping donald trump. i want to know and i want something done about it and we should know about that. they should be preserving our democracy and our election system above election narratives we're worried about getting into the press. >> especially in the context, harold, of what happened from

july, july 5th or 6th through the end of the campaign, where the focus was all on an fbi investigation into hillary clinton. with that context, how do you have that out there, and at the white house, and in the senate, not say hey there's another investigation going on right now, and it has to do with russia. >> look, they claim they had -- i tend to agree with everything said around the table. the scary thing for me right now is the country to mike's point, the country seems to be less interested in this story, and for me the only two things that matter, one is how did they meddle and what do we do to protect any country meddling again and two, as it relates to trump, the only person i want to hear from is mike flynn, but that's separate. if you can give me one of the two i want to figure out how the meddling happened and what we do to ensure they're unable to meddle again or what systems in place to reduce the likelihood they can meddle when it. >> stay with us. up next on "morning joe" --

>> and later this summer, when we repeal and replace obamacare, we're going to defund planned parenthood once and for all. >> and that was vice president mike pence last week, before the gop pulled back on its health care bill, but the issue is certainly far from over. the president of planned parenthood cecile richards joining us next on "morning joe." (baby crying) ♪

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>> joining us on set the president of planned parenthood, cecile richards. is he veal, mike pence we played a sound bite from him last week they still have planned parenthood definitely going to try to take it away, the funding. >> right. >> tell us what your biggest concerns are moving forward, especially now the bill is on hold or a failure for now? >> it was great to see senators murkowski and collins they were clear ending access to planned parenthood is sort of a deal breaker and it's important to understand as senator murkowski says we're not in the federal budget. that's a misnomer. there's no defunding. we get reimbursed just like hospitals and other health care providers for providing preventative health services, and in a state like alaska or maine, frankly all over the country, women need access to affordable health care and that's what planned parenthood represents. >> kasie hunt in washington has a question for you. >> i want to dig into this a little bit because i think you

hit on something which is viewers and people sometimes ask me the question, what is defunding planned parenthood mean in a day-to-day? if you have a clinic in a rural place, and this bill were to go through as it's written now, what happens? to go through as it's written now, what happens? does it simply become financially unsustainable. do you have to turn people on medicaid away? what is the practical impact of this? >> sure, thanks, casie. and i'll give you a perfect example. i was just in paul ryan's district, where we have three planned parenthood health centers. they provide only preventative health services, cancer screenings, birth control. for many women, we're their only health care providers. and what it would mean is all the women on medicaid in that district could no longer come to their health care provider, which is planned parenthood, and get their basic access to care. one of the things that's lost on a number of members of congress is we are -- half of our half centers are in medically underserved communities. that means a lot of rural, small town, midwest communities. and we've been hearing from women, one in five women in this

country go to planned parenthood for health care at some point in their lifetime. we've been hearing from women absolutely panicked about where they can go to for care. and i think the other thing that's important swb you know, we're so proud of the work we've done on preventing unintended pregnancy. we're actually now at an historic low for teen pregnancy in the united states of america. we're at the lowest rate of abortion since roe versus wade was decided. and one thing that hasn't been reported too much out of the cbo score, they estimate, as does every other medical journal, is if you actually block access to planned parenthood, unintended pregnancy will go up, as will the rate of abortion, which just seems crazy to us. >> so cecile, it's apparent that the republican party has had an obsession for seven to eight years with obamacare. from your point of view, what is their apparent obsession with planned parenthood? >> i think it's a great question. i mean, one of the problems we have, of course, is this bill was drafted with only men. i think it's notable that the

two most vocal republican opponents are women. they understand fundamentally that for women, this is not a political issue. this is an issue of access to affordable health care. i can't tell you, we have -- last year we did more than 300,000 breast cancer screenings. we detected more than 70,000 cancers. for women who live in a community where there's no other provider. and even though the republicans say, they can go anywhere. if you have a lump on your breast, you can't wait one or two months to actually go see a doctor. that's what planned parenthood represents. and i just think the republicans are making a big mistake by putting politics ahead of women's health care. >> it has to be encouraging on one level, to have one of the most vocal, impassioned defenders of this issue be lisa murkowski. >> absolutely. >> when i was in congress, and joe was there, it was generally democrats who had to make the case. but for lisa murkowski to make the case, how significant is that for planned parenthood? and how significant is that for big health conversations going

forward in your estimation with the senate? >> it's huge, harold. and i think one of the reasons that lisa is such an advocate is because we provide health care to thousands of women in alaska. and she and i have spoken many times. she said, you know, if you are in juneau or another small town in alaska, planned parenthood may be the only place open to get family planning services, to get your breast cancer screening, your cervical cancer screenings. and i just feel like we can -- i mean wing that's why you're hearing why women are so upset about this bill. it actually takes away access to health care, when, in fact, we should be increasing it. and i think women just feel like, boy, if members of congress can choose where they'd go to for health care, why shouldn't women in america be able to choose planned parenthood. >> in juneau or places like that, are there places where planned parenthood is the only option? there are no other options around? you can show on a map? >> absolutely. and that's what i saw in racine, wisconsin, in paul ryan's own district. there was no other safety net provider for family planning. and again, the main reason you can prevent unintended pregnancy

is because women can get in and get birth control when they need and it get the best kind of birth control. that's what we provide at planned parenthood. >> donald trump's position on planned parenthood has been sort of strange, over time. if you look back at the debate in february of 2016, he said, quote -- this ises in a republican debate. millions and millions and of women, cervical cancer and breast cancer are helped by planned parenthood. i would defund it, because i'm pro-life, but millions of women are helped by planned parenthood. he said more recently, if you stopped performing at abortions at planned parenthood, you could keep all your federal funding. is that something you ever would consider? >> i think it's really important, willie -- and look, i appreciate the important you said and recognized what i think most people in america recognize, 80% in the latest poll, that planned parenthood provides vital health care for millions of people in this country. >> and donald trump recognizes. >> that's true. because one in five women have been to us for health care.

it's a fact of the matter. the thing i don't understand and i would challenge any member of the united states senate or congress is, if you really want to reduce the unintended pregnancy rate and need for abortion, you should be funding groups like planned parenthood that do more than all this political wrangling does to provide birth control to women. >> that's a nonstarter? stop performing abortions and you'll keep your money? >> it's a legal right that women have. and what i would say, willie, that's important, we operate like every hospital in america, we act like other community health services that provide abortions as well, but we do more in the area of family planning than any organization in this country. >> cecil richards, thank you very much. just ahead, senator dick durbin was heard singing the rolling stones, "you can't always get what you want," after democrats postponed the vote. but will republicans be able to get what they want.

the senate majority whip will join us. plus, donald trump donald trump h has bragged that he's been featured on more "time" magazine covers than anyone. according to the "washington post," this particular cover is hung up in at least five of the president's clubs. the problem, this cover is fake. he made a fake cover of himself on "time." somebody's company did that for their boss. we're so glad to have you here. ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars? ♪ yasss queen! what if millie dresselhaus, the first woman to win the national medal of science in engineering, were as famous as any celebrity? [millie dresselhaus was seen having lunch today...] ♪

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with us, we have veteran columnist and msnbc contributor, mike barnicle. msnbc political analyst and professor at the university of michigan school of public policy, former democratic congressman, harold ford jr. and on capitol hill, senior politics reporter at "usa today," heidi przybyla. >> hold on, one two! >> you guys got to say that how chris pronounces. people are just going to start saying it like that. >> that's what we want! >> vintage chris matthews. vintage "hardball." >> heidi przybyla! senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc, mark halperin joins us as well. the future of federal health care policy is uncertain this morning after republicans were forced to pull their overhaul plan yesterday. it became clear that the votes simply would not be there to get the bill to the floor and majority leader mitch mcconnell addressed the press. >> we will not be on the bill this week, but we're still

working toward getting at least 50 people in a comfortable place. >> mr. leader, is your effort to repeal obamacare dead? >> no. no. we're continuing to talk about it. it's a very complicated subject. i remember how challenging it was for the democrats, when they were enacting this back in 2009 and 2010. a big, complicated subject. >> will your ongoing discussions involve democrats at all? >> they're not interested in participating in this. >> nearly all the republican members of the senate then headed to the white house -- >> they just weren't happy. >> this was the bus they get thrown under. pool video shows the president flanked by some of his senators with the deepest reservations -- >> they were so happy to be there. >> susan collins, lisa murkowski, and dean heller. then at 4:34 p.m. came this tweet from the associated press. breaking, trump says senate has chance to pass important health

care bill. if it fails, he won't like it, and that's okay. >> we have really no choice but to solve this situation. obamacare is a total disaster. it's melting down, as we speak. rates are going up. in fact, it's very interesting, lisa, that you're sitting next to me, because in alaska, it was 206%. a 206% increase in alaska. so we're going to talk and we're going to see what we can do. this will be great if we get it done, and if we don't get it done, it's just going to be something that we're not going to like, and that's okay, and i understand that very well. but i think we have a chance to do something very, very important for the public, very, very important for the people of our country that we love. >> so behind the scenes, willie, everybody was stewing at donald trump. because this is a continuation of what they did in the house, where they sent over president bannon who threatened all the house members. and they did the same

heavy-handed approach. and "the new york times" is reporting today that mitch mcconnell called donald trump's handling of this something like incredibly stupid. >> yeah, he was talking specifically about those ads that we criticized earlier this week, doing after dean heller. attacking a republican. i need every republican vote i can get in the senate right now, but you had flanking president trump at the white house yesterday, lisa murkowski and susan collins. susan collins has been a pretty hard no on this because of the medicaid rollback. so what they're going to have to figure out over the next week, because they're not going to have the vote this week. they go home and talk to the people in their district. it's probably going to be a long week for a lot of them. hearing from their people is how do you cobble a bill together that appeases both rand paul, who wants complete repeal of obamacare, and susan collins, who does not want medicaid gone. who has elements of obamacare that she likes in her state. what does that bill look like and how do you get there? >> you just don't, mike barnicle. you're never going to get a bill that leaves enough medicaid

funding for the poor in there that will keep susan collins and dean heller, who's gone now, and i would be gone, too. and a lot of other people, without losing the freedom caucus and a lot of people in the house. >> this is the better care reconciliation act. that's what this bill is called. and that's kind of fun in and of its own terms. the interesting thing to me is after speaking with several staff members yesterday, more than a few of them republican, is that the president of the united states in this, the hallmark of his early administration, is a non-participant. and they want him to be a non-participant. >> they told him sty out of the way, right? >> yes. and that is astounding when you think of it. this is what he has built his early administration on, he and the republican party repealing obamacare. it's not happening and it might not ever happen. >> more than that, mika. his main pitch was, i can get deals done. i know how to make deals.

he's proven just the opposite by going to the house and insulting the house members, insulting the senate members. we warned him all along during the campaign when he would go out and say, i'm going to run over paul ryan -- no, you're not, actually. these are the people that you need to get things done. i know it looks like a dictatorship from whatever floor on trump tower you look at. it's not a dictatorship. you insult the house and then you insult the senate like you do, and you become, as mike said, a nonplayer. >> well, look, this is now on his number one pitch to the country, which is that he can make deals, a double failure, at the very least. here's susan collins. >> what is the big picture, though, about why the president's struggling on coraling republicans. it just seems like he has doesn't have the political capital that most presidents do to kind of get the party in line. >> this president is the first president in our history who has

had neither political nor military experience. and thus, it has been a challenge to him to learn how to interact with congress and how to push his agenda forward. >> that's a nice way of putting it. it's very polite. >> well, it's very polite, harold. it's a nice way to put it, but, this is -- again, this is that white house that has believed that you get things done by insulting members. now, you and i both know, if a president comes and like orders you to do something, you're just not going to do it. not only are you not going to do, you're going to go in the cloakroom and you're going to say, hey, did you see -- i can't even imagine what the senate cloakroom was like. i can't even imagine it. because if newt gingrich would attack one of us -- >> it was all of us. >> then 74 in the freshman class would rise up against him and vote down every bill until they made it right with one person. here, you have dean heller who is fighting for his political

life in nevada and trump has his goons run attack ads against a republican fighting for his life! you know what that's like in the cloakroom. i mean, a wildfire would sweep through a cloakroom. and i'm sure it did. and everybody would rise up and say, no, an attack against one is an attack against all. and if dean doesn't have your back, you don't have our back. >> dean heller released i guess some sort of statements now, i guess, we say tweets or statements. in a tweet this morning, he said, unless you can convince me and my governor. i think the important thing for -- if i were the president this morning, if i were advising him, i would convene these governors. you had some in washington yesterday, including charlie baker, your governor, terry mcauliffe from virginia, john hickenlooper, john kasich, all talking about the things that are working well with medicaid and things that are not working well. it would seem to me it would behoove the president and his policy team if they have a serious policy team there to

bring those governors in and start there. and then reach back out to the senate and try -- >> but harold, do you agree with me? this will never pass without democratic support. >> which is where i would end up. if you have democrat and republican governors there. this is a bill that's going to pass 25 democrats, 25 republicans, a minimum, or 30/20, 32/20 -- whatever, 18, whatever the numbers may be. unless this president is committed to do it. remember, obama started off with this health care plan, so we've god to expand accessibility, expand affordability. and we're going to cut costs while we're doing it. the problem with obamacare is that the premiums are going up too fast. and we've got to figure out -- yeah, listen, i was disappointed listening to some democratic senators last night who all they could say is this bill was terrible, it's rotten to the core. but we have to recognize, there are some challenges here. and i applaud van hollen for saying, look, we may need a public option, but democrats should tort reform be part of this? can we honestly say medicaid has gotten out of control?

is the income better than the age to consider? this is where we have to go next. but to make your point, you will not pass tax reform, infrastructure reform, or any of this if you take to attacking republican senators. >> let's break down the heller story. "the new york times" reports that majority leader mitch mcconnell was not happy with the tactics used by certain supporters of president trump. it comes after a pro-trump super pac began to buy up ad time to pressure senator dean heller, who also facing an uncertain re-election in 2018. quote, the majority leader also rankled by mr. trump's tweets goading him to change senate rules, to scuttle democratic filibusters, called the white house chief of staff, reince priebus, to complain that the attacks were beyond stupid. according to two republicans with knowledge of the tense exchange, mr. mcconnell, who has been toiling for weeks, mostly in private, to put together a measure that would satisfy hard-liners and moderates, told mr. priebus in his call that the assault by the group america

first not only jeopardized the bill's prospect, but also imperiled mr. heller's already difficult path to re-election. the ads, which have now been pulled, reportedly also came up in the meeting with the president yesterday, and john ralston of the nevada independent tweeted quotes from senator heller from a teletown hall last night. "this just shows you they don't have the votes right now and they can't count on mine going forward." a caller asked, "how do you reason with a president who lies 97% of the time?" heller reportedly responded, "it is frustrating to deal with a white house that is not 100% accurate." >> that's very polite. the senator. coming up on "morning joe," a reporter tells the deputy white house press secretary what a lot of people were probably thinking. plus, senator dick durbin says the real debate over health care will only happen when the gop plan is gone for good. he joins us straight ahead. but first, bill karins with a check on the forecast. bill? >> well, joe and mika, this is

going to be one of the most top ten most beautiful days of the summer in the northeast and the mid-atlantic. too bad it's happening in the middle of the workweek. maybe lunch and after work you can enjoy it. in the west, it's the opposite. we're still dealing with the heat and unfortunately a lot of fires are still burning. a couple of large ones. one flared up over the last 24 hours was the godwin fire. this is just south of prescott. ma ma an hour and a half north of prescott, arizona. haven't had a lot of fires there the last 40 years. so a lot of brush to be burned. we wish them luck in fighting that blaze. one town of 1,400 people have been evacuated. as far as severe weather goes, we're returning to that. this time of year, you typically don't get a lot of wind damage. we usually don't get the big tornado outbreaks once we get toward the middle of the summer. big wind risk for a omaha to davenport. and tomorrow the same storm system shifts a little farther to the south. start including st. louis, chicago, indianapolis, even areas around detroit and cleveland. that's why we have 22 million people at risk of severe storms today. i mention hoed how gorgeous it

in the mid-atlantic today. washington, d.c., 83, low humidity. don't get many of these days th this time of year. but down around the gulf coast, that's where the humidity remains and the thunderstorms will continue this evening and into tomorrow. doesn't get much better, low humidity, cool breeze, fantastic, new york city. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. their experience is coveted. their leadership is instinctive. they're experts in things you haven't heard of. researchers of technologies that one day you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans. we call them our team.

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mistake, the slightest word is off, it is just an absolutely tirade from a lot of people in this room. but news outlets get to go on, day after day, and cite unnamed sources, use stories without sources, have, you know, you mentioned the scaramucci story, where they had to have reporters resign. >> come on, you're enflaming everyone right here, right now with those words. this administration has done that has well. why in the name of heavens, any one of us are replaceable. and any one of us, if we don't get it right, the audience has the opportunity to change the channel or not read us. you have been elected to serve for four years, at least. there's no option other than that. you're here to provide answers to our questions. and what you just did is inflammatory to people all over the country who say, see, once

again, the president is right skperve and everybody else out here is fake media. everyone in this room is trying to do their job. >> i disagree, completely. i think if anything has been enflamed is the dishonesty that often take place by the news media. and i think it's tranoutrageous you to accuse me of inflaming a story when i was simply trying to respond to his question. >> let's go around. heidi przybyla, what do you make of what happened there in the press room? >> i think we need a fact check here, because sarah huckabee sanders said that we all in the media get to go on and on, essentially promoting untruths. that is so wrong. and what happened at cnn the other day -- >> totally. >> -- is a testament to that. which is that when we get it wrong, we at least have to run a correction and sometimes there's huge ramifications, which is that those three reporters were forced to resign. so if this white house, and it's been given the opportunity several times, wants to highlight reporting that is untrue and that merits a correction, they are free to do that every day they have that

podium. they don't do it. what they do do is they take an entire democratic institution, which is all of us, the fourth estate, and say, that we are fake news. and that is why i think so many reporters have kind of had it up to here, which is that we are not fake news. and if you have a specific issue, with a specific story or a specific reporter, please, by all means, take that up and get your correction, but do not vilify a vital democratic institution. >> well, yeah, and the greatest -- i mean, the greatest irony, mark halperin, is that this lecture is coming from the greatest liar that's ever sat in the white house. "the new york times" highlighted a thousand lies. i mean, to compare nixon to this guy is absolutely ridiculous. he lies every day. a lot of times he lies every minute. he forgets the lie that he told five minutes ago. >> and then he props up people like sarah huckabee sanders to back up his lies and she does it

with a straight face. it's incredibly disturbing. >> what's also so fun is the fact that sarah huckabee sanders is talking about, and donald trump will talk about unnamed sources and stories. this white house will call every second that you will take their calls and they will give you a story, mark, but it has to be unnamed source. they have to be off the record. and a lot of times, they will call you just to trash other people that are working inside the white house. or they will say, hey, you can get this out there, but you can't attach my name to it. i mean, what raging hypocrites they all are to complain about unnamed sources, when they throw more unnamed sourced stories out than any white house i've ever dealt with. >> ever. >> there have been a lot of low points from that podium in this administration with lack of respect for the first amendment or lack of seriousness about explaining themselves. i thought that was one of the

lowest points of the entire administration. >> it's despicable. >> what sarah said in her tone, in her substance, in her emphas emphasis, it's not about the press versus the white house. it's about the public interest. and it's about demanding accountability and honesty from the administration. i get why they like to attack the press. it rallies the people who helped the president get elected. and i get why they say thing that the president likes to hear, because he watches the briefing. but that was a low point. and i think anyone who works in this administration, in the white house and elsewhere, should look at the dynamics of what she said and think about if that's the way they want the government to run. >> and that who they want to work for? is that who they want to be at the end? that's what these people don't realize. donald trump is not going to be in the white house forever, and they're going to have to go on and get jobs after he's gone. and he will throw them all under the bus. he throws everybody under the bus at the end. he'll throw them under the bus, too. i've got to say, mike barnicle,

it's also -- this is short-sighted. it's so short-sighted. you can look at every public opinion poll and americans trust news outlets more than they trust donald trump. every single poll that you see out there. and also, donald trump is only making the media stronger. we have record ratings for us at "morning joe," record ratings for the subscription increases of "new york times," "washington post," et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. everybody is actually getting more viewers by holding the them accountable. and when they do things like that, they only feed into, you know, they only make us stronger. >> it certainly is shortsighted, but it almost assuredly is a strategy. and the trump administration has difficulty getting enough votes to pass a health care bill. the trump administration has difficulty in formulating a policy in the middle east, but they have a fairly successful strategy of running the press down. and it's working to a certain --

>> it's a 36% strategy. >> okay. >> it's a losing strategy. >> here's the dumpbifference, though, judge. we in the media, when we make a mistake, we're reported. you know we make a mistake. when they make a mistake, they say nothing. >> or they lie about it. >> yeah. coming up on "morning joe," two top experts on russia react to the white house's warnings to moscow over the fight for syria the retired four-star admiral james tavrides and we'll get a look at where wall street stands today. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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maybe a little bit of helpful insight for sarah huckabee sanders, someone might want to tell her that she's working for a president who forced his press secretary on day one to go out and lie about crowd size, forced him to do that, and he did that with his tail between his legs and ruined his credibility from day one.

and if you want to take a look into trump's history, there's a million things you could find. here's a "washington post" report. fake covers of "time" magazine. he was so needy, he had not been on "time" yet, that he made his own, okay? this is your boss. this is your boss. he put this on display at least five of his clubs. it was first flagged by a reporter who noticed the -- >> trump is -- >> several exclamation points. the headline, something "time" magazine doesn't do. the make believe cover is dated march 1st, 2009, and highlights trump's reality show, "the apprentice." "time" magazine has since asked trump to remove the phony cover. phony! a phony, fake, pathetic made-up cover of "time" magazine! that's your boss! >> in an e-mail to "the post," the white house couldn't comment on whether the president knew it wasn't a real cover. >> you should do some covers of yourself. you could just make them up, like trump! >> i wouldn't do that.

and willie, i don't have to, because, as you know, "gq" -- how many times have they had me on their cover? >> look at you! amazing! yeah, roll, tide! >> that is this month's "gq." and i've got to say -- >> look at the sweater. it's just hot! >> man of the year. >> i wouldn't go hanging that -- oh, great. he's already made america great again. willie, i wouldn't put that up many my clubs or a tv show. >> that would be needy. >> it would be interesting if "gq" put roll tide. >> it is. but let's talk about, though, how shortsighted donald trump's strategy -- >> i think it's disturbing. >> he wants the press to go out and it's so shortsighted, he's got -- again, he's got president bannon's -- no, seriously, how do you do that? >> he has a screw loose. there's something wrong! there's something wrong! >> so president bannon -- >> yes, go ahead.

president bannon, sorry. >> president bannon's strategy is getting them 35, 36% in polls. like, he still believes this is a positive strategy, when americans desperately want their white house to work. >> something i would add, i think there's something larger to be concerned about. has the press occasionally made a mistake about russia meddling our election? yes. but what he does and the white house does is discredit anyone or anything that crosses their narrative or undermines what they're trying to say. whether it's the press or the cbo or the former director of the fbi or the intel agency or the courts. and that is a very dangerous thing that's happening right now in realtime, that our institutions are being discredited and undermined. and that's a problem. that's a long-term problem. it may get them through the day, but you have people now who don't believe essential truths about this country anymore. >> he's injected an anti-journalism virus into the

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weapon continue to track developments surrounding the white house's statement late on monday on a possible syrian chemical attack and how the united states would respond. by early afternoon yesterday, the trump administration downplayed reports, including from nbc news, that key government officials were left out. >> i think that the message from the statement yesterday was extremely clear. i don't think it was a gray area. it was pretty black and white. i can tell you that leadership from the state department, dod, dni, the cia, as well as members of the administration within

this building were part of that process from the very beginning and fully aware. i know that there was a routine meeting that took place yesterday. i don't believe that there was anything beyond that yesterday. >> so the secretary, as you know, was at the white house yesterday. he met with the president, also a group meeting with the president's national security team, and that's when this conversation was all had about that statement. i'm not going to get into our internal conversations, but the secretary was aware of it. folks, here, were aware of it. and that's what's important and that's what matters. >> all right. officials also say that sbleb s intelligence indicates syrian weapons personnel have recently been visiting known production facilities. also that an aircraft was parked next to one facility. russia says it has no information about a possible chemical attack and any actions against assad would be, quote, unacceptable. the syrian president was filmed yesterday getting into the cockpit of a russian war plane. >> i wouldn't do that, if i were

you. >> and was accompanied by the russian defense chief minister. >> let's bring in dean of the fletcher school of law, retired four-star navy admiral, james stavridis. he's a navy analyst, also for nbc news and nbc, we've got former director of the grand talent wmd commission, elaine farkas. admiral, let me start with you. the insanity of a white house putting out a statement without passing it by your secretary of defense, without the nsa knowing, without the leaders at centcom knowing, is just baffling. >> yeah, it's outrageous. and it really talks to the dysfunctionalty at the moment we're seeing in washington. and it's not only the key leadership. it's those next tooeiers down w have to do the planning and have

to be ready to execute. >> admiral, let me ask you about this. you take rex tillerson and the state department. the state department is rotting right now under rex tillerson's leadership or lack thereof, because he will not force the issue and fill vacancies that the state department desperate needs. >> correct. and i think even worse, the inflow of young foreign service officers has been cut off. they're not bringing any bright, young people. so it's the future of the state department, joe, not only what's happening today. >> so, let me ask the both of you, one of the things that is most helpful to the united states and our role in the world is our relationship with other countries, specifically the nato nations. what, in your view, is the state of america and nato with regard to afghanistan, the middle east, and the safety of europe. >> so think

partnership, united states, and european nations as a bridge. it was rock solid during the time i was a nato commander. afghanistan, libya, the balkans, et cetera. today that bridge is really creeky, because of a nagging sense on the part of the europeans that the trump administration is not serious about their support to nato. jim mattis is doing too little kind of try and rebuild that, shore up that bridge. >> he's working around the clock. >> fourth trip to europe there week. >> but even more importantly, i agree with everything the admiral just said, of course, my old boss, but also, the problem with russia. i think our allies are really worried, mike, that, you know, the president, our president is going to make some kind of deal with russia that will leave them out in the cold. and the g-20 summit is coming up in less than -- in about a week. we'll see what angela merkel and macron do there, because they have the lead now with ukraine. but they're watching to see, what is trump going to do? blind of conversation is he going to have with vladimir

putin on the sidelines of the g-20 summit and they better talk about syria. >> admiral, was that statement put out by the white house a shot across russia's bow, as well, saying, effectively, you'll pay a heavy price if one of these chemical attacks is launched, drawing a red line, a message to assad, but also to russia? >> very much so. and if you look at the last bag of tomahawks we shot into syria, frankly they didn't have a lot of effect. so i think when you roll out this, you're going to pay a heavy price. there's a significant message going across -- >> so you're in the intelligence community, the state department, the department of defense, and you see this statement come out of the white house. what's happening in there? >> they are doing the contingency planning, mika. the carrier "bush" is in the eastern med now -- >> but are they shocked? are they scrambling? >> they are shocked and they are scrambling and that is not the right way to run the railroad. >> usually, joe, you mentioned that the state department is missing personnel. you don't have people at the deputy level who are empowered, who are appointed, who are

politically appointed people. at the deputy level, that's where you have the first crisis meeting and provide recommendations up to the cabinet. and about says, okay, let's draw this red line. >> there are reports that are ambassadors have given up calling the state department. >> yeah, they call the nsa. >> so now they're calling the nsa, mike, because there's nobody at the state department. the problem with this is, this is not a mistake. this is a calculate ed attempt gut the state department and let jared kushner and donald trump and steve bannon run our foreign policy. >> yeah, and it's -- >> and they have -- this has been planned for a long time. this is not a mistake. and it's destroying america's dploeltic reach across the world. and when that diplomatic reach, when soft power is undercut, that's when we get into wars. >> and the rather amazing aspect off of all of this is you have rex tillerson, former the ceo of one of the globe's largest companies, most powerful companies, acting on the sidelines like a mute, like

someone who has nothing to say or do about this. and one of the things that is going on that we see as very little discussion is the potential introduction of 3,000 to 5,000 marines back into afghanistan. where are we on that? >> we are awaiting the reveal of the new plan for afghanistan, which i think is going to look a lot like the old plan. it's going to be incremental. that's a mistake. we need a clear strategy. we have not seen that yet. and also, what ought to be worrying us all is the fact that the president seems to have outsourced the decision to send these young men and women into combat. that's really unacceptable in my view. >> what is rex tillerson doing? what has he been doing? what is he allow eed to do? have we seen him? >> he's been not much of a public force. i think nikki haley has actually distinguished herself, as being

out twhere, setting some sorts f standards. what i'm worried about right now, well, a lot of things, but syria. right now we're approaching a point where there will be quickly a vacuum or a fight over who controls the isis-controlled territory. and then we will see some new equities come to play. there will be pressure, our israeli allies are very worried about hezbollah gaining influence in that area, as well, and going all the way to the golan. these strikes they made against into the syrian territory were obviously a work shot to hezbollah and others, don't try anything funy. but we don't have a policy or a strategy towards syria. >> we don't have a policy towards a lot of things. look what's happening, willie, in qatar. it's absolute chaos. the president does a tweet storm and lets qatar know that they're no longer our ally, despite the fact that centcom's operating base in the middle east, and one of the most important bases, and

they be the next week, they're attacking saudi arabia and the uae, one of our best allies in the middle east. and now they're talking about freezing any aide to these countries, until they back off of qatar. it's just baffling. >> a couple more foreign policy moves that you just laid out that happened from the top, through tweets and from the white house that were not coordinated throughout the foreign policy community. >> and they crossed him. >> they did. >> now, there tillerson is trying to clean up from what i can tell. >> yeah, although, lest relook at what's happening here. there's a naval blockade around qatar. we haven't seen something like that since 1962 and the cuban missile crisis. that's a big deal. and to have that kind of discontinuity at the top, again, staggers the diplomat -- >> so let me ask you, what you do about this? you've got the saudis, the uae, israel, a lot of people, correctly saying, qatar has been funding terrorist organizations.

>> correct. >> hehezbollah, they've been funding radical aspects of the muslim brotherhood. they have been spreading disinformation. you know, through al jazeera, what the saudis and the uae was saying for years, why are you glorifying osama bin laden? why are our children turning on the tv set and seeing these wonderful documentaries about osama bin laden, a guy who's trying to kill us? so it's not as if the uae and the saudis don't have a point here. of course, the saudis, their hands aren't exactly clean themselves. >> correct. i think the way to look at this is qatar has to choose. you know, life is full of choices. and up-to-the-qatar has to, excuse me, sign up to be with the sunni side of the arabian gulf, not the persian gulf. >> so you agree with the uae's position here? >> i do. i think -- i agree with the position, not with the modality

of a naval blockade. >> what's your level of concern, the both of you, joe was just talking about the saudis, the saudis, saudi arabia and pakistan, supposedly two of our strongest allies, and yesterday, are they really our allies? >> they are both kind of accidental allies, at this point. and so, you have to make discreet decisions about each of these, i think with pakistan, it's tomb to present pakistan with a choice, as much as qatar is being presented with a choice. i think saudi is a little different category. >> can we afford to give pakistan an ultimatum? isn't that the problem? we just can't. >> it has been the problem historically. however, we are verging into territory now in pakistan with the radicalization of the huge muslim population, that requires us, because of the presence of nuclear weapons there to create a set of choices for pakistan.

and i think it's time to do that. >> ef evelyn, just to button upe syria question. we lobbed a bag of tomahawk missiles, didn't really do much. what is this, quote, heavy price the white house talked about in the statement this week, what does that mean? in other words, if there's another chemical attack, what's the american strategy? going in heavy? going in with troops? >> it's unclear, which is probably good. i don't think we need to sell out for the syrians what we would do. and i will say that the statement in and of itself, the objective, which is to deter the syrians from using chemical weapons, i applaud that. it's just that how it came about and what it's embedded in, which is no strategy, is a problem. but i think we don't really have to spell out what it is. however, those of us who don't trust that the administration has a strategy and that there is adequate civilian military control over the department of defense, back and forth, worry what that heavy military price could be. so we need civilians and

military leadership or civilian and military leadership working together to come up with a very well-thought-out plan, which we don't see. >> admiral james stavridis and dr. evelyn farkas, thank you both. scary times. really scary. >> thank you so much. >> great to be with you. up next, senator dick durbin joins us live. "morning joe" is coming right back. in its economy, in medicine, in science and in national security. one company designs and builds more supercomputers than any other. an american company. hewlett packard enterprise. leading the way to discover... to innovate... and to protect. hewlett packard enterprise. a national asset in supercomputing. and in this swe see.veryday act, when we give, we receive. ♪

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booking.yeah! would you a proponent of trying to work across the aisle to make some of those fixes?

>> absolutely. the congress of the united states, whether you're a republican or democrat in the house or senate, shouldn't we all be working together on the problems that are part and par set of who we are as americans? this is -- this is not for republicans to fix or democrats to fix, this is for us as americans to fix. amen. joining us from capitol hill member of the senate judiciary committee dick durbin. what's it going to take to get some collaboration on this issue? >> the best starting place is to use the process of the senate. the republicans are in the majority, why doesn't lamar alexander schedule a hearing the first day we're back after the 4th of july recess. let's subject it to scrutiny to criticism to amendment. let's have a real national

debate about a national significance then let's bring it to the floor of the senate. the republicans are in the majority why are they afraid to do it. that's the way to bring about a bipartisan approach to this whole conversation. >> let's -- let's not have an either/or approach. how do we get democrats and republicans talking together saying republicans saying, hey, listen, this program is not sustainable at its current growth rate over the next 20 years. medicare and medicaid, eve got a problem. democrats, can say we understand that, but we're not going to leave millions of poor and middle class americans behind. is there middle ground there? can you guys figure out how to sit down and come up with a health care bill that's not going to be thrown out with the next administration comes in? >> joe, the key to it is the starting point, you know that. if the starting point is to have a tax break for the wealthiest people in america then you'll

take more money out of the health care system that means fewer people will have protection or help in paying their premiums so if you take tax cuts off the table. >> really quickly, you brought up tax cuts. sorry to interrupt. i wanted to ask you to way in on something we've been saying this morning, it's become obvious that the republicans haven't focused on writing a bill because this health care bill only seems to be a precursor to a huge tax cut bill later on? >> someone has said and it might have been on your show, when it comes to specialty work, the republicans are really specialist on tax cuts. when it comes to health care, turn to the democrats. so the question is whether we can create a political marriage here that says we can't take a trillion dollars out of the health care system over the next ten years primarily for tax cuts and expect to have more people

with health insurance coverage. that's with congressional budget office told us. the starting point if it's going to be bipartisan has to be with an agreement on starting principals. >> it's brian sullivan. with all due respect, the fight we're having is odd. health care costs have been growing for 50 years, prescription drug costs are up 12,000% since 1960, per capita spending was $150 in 1960, it's $9,000 now. you've been in office since 1997. health care's been a crisis for 50 years. when do you guys sit down and address costs? why does health care cost so much in america and why do americans consume so much health care rather than us just fighting constantly about how to pay for a bill we should probably never have? >> you put your finger on one of the major drivers in terms of increased cost in health care, the cost of pharmaceuticals, the affordable care act is not deal

with constraining or reducing the cost of pharmaceuticals and it should. i wish it had from the very beginning. that needs to be on the table. if you ask the american families and the insurance company executives they'll tell you this is a big driver. now let me also say to television networks like you're own, msnbc, this directed consumer advertising by pharmaceuticals companies is only allowed in two countries, maybe three now. >> you see some drug for gout, we should stop that? it's a huge industry. >> i can tell you why. because the consumers who don't understand the sophisticated issues about these drugs take the name of the drug into the doctor and say will you write me this prescription, too many of them just do and that drives up the cost of health care for drugs that are not effective or necessary. so we have to bring it all together when it comes to pharmaceuticals and sign me up for that effort. should medicare be able to negotiated pharmaceutical prices, you bet it should.

let's bring down the prices for senior citizens and for the government. >> this is sort of a health care question. you represent a city, chicago, where in certain neighborhoods parent after parent after parent is afraid to let their child outdoors because they're afraid they might get killed. what are we going to do about that health care aspect? we've been at it again for years and decades. handgun violence, murders. what are we going to do? >> there are many aspects to this. let me tell you one that came as a shock me. i went to the cook county juvenile facility, i sat down with these adolescence being charged with murders using guns and i sat down with the counsellors working with them for months, who are these kids, how did they reach this point that they're spraying bullets into homes killing grandmothers and babies? 92% of these kids have been victims of violent trauma or have witnessed violent trauma. think about a returning soldiers

who gone through that experience who need a helping hand to put their lives on a right path, it's only one element but a critical starting element to try to stop these gang bangers from reaching a point is killing a part of the normal routine of their lives. summer jobs. so many aspects here that need to be part of it but i hope that the federal government will help us. we need their helping hand. why is the problem in your judgment so acute in chicago? you've got a police force working hard and overtime as you know but in places like new york and other major cities in the united states, there is a problem with handgun violence and death but not nearly on the scale of chicago. what is specific to chicago that's causing this epidemic in that city? >> the flood of guns, 40% of african-american kids are unemployed. 20% of those in the hispanic community. you have too much time on their hands. this exposure to violent trauma early in their lives.

they don't have the constructive experiences that many of us had in life, a mentor in school. someone that would give them an opportunity to prove themselves with summer job. >> why chicago, though? why is it so much more acute in chicago? we have those problems across the country. >> no money. >> in chicago the numbers are so much higher. >> i can't explain the volume, but i can tell you when you get to the route causes, i can put my finger on a lot of them. we need to say to the president, when you say in your tweet we're going to send in the feds, please do. send in the federal money. we can use it. >> which president? president obama was from chicago. >> he did a lot for the city. let's be honest about it. this situation is grave. it's serious. innocent people and kids are dying every single weekend, every single week. we've got to put the resources into it. it isn't just a matter of getting tough. >> we appreciate it so much.

brian, thank you dick durbin. there's no money. their credit rating may be downgraded to junk. they may bankrupt in illinois. >> thank you, everyone. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage. good morning i'm stephanie ruhle with much to cover starting with health care. it is on hold. senator mitch mcconnell delaying the big vote. >> we will not be on the bill this week. >> president trump firing back this morning against multiple reports he's not fully engaged. >> if we don't get it done it's just going to be something that we're not going to like and that's okay. let's go behind closed doors. john podesta testifies before the house intelligence committee about his e-mail hack about the man some alleged colluded with the hack.