to work with us to find something better. >> do you think health care is possible by friday? >> if pigs could fly. >> so you're saying there's a chance. >> tomorrow seems to be the new deadline for the republicans to pass their bill or face, can you imagine, working with democrats. the republicans have their work cut out with them to say the least. this is thursday, june 29th on morning joe. with us veteran columnist and legendary journalist mike barnicle. senior political analyst mark halperin. national affairs analyst more s

msnbc and kristen, good to have you back on the show. >> it's really something. they're going to have to work with democrats. what a horrible idea, they might have to work with democrats. >> they're going to find it's easier to work with democrats than their own president who undermines them, slams them and says bad things about them, just for fun, to bully them, throw them under the bus, make up new plans, have rose garden ceremonies, mumiliate them. i mean, could it be worse? why don't you work with democrats. no, seriously. you're working with someone who literally can't function. >> okay, mika. and he also doesn't understand any of the policy. >> no clue. >> mika. >> what was the question? >> the biggest problem is he doesn't understand the policy. all he has been telling people

all along, it doesn't line up with anything he promised on the campaign trail and he just doesn't understand the most basic concepts. >> not a policy wonk. >> no. >> and his lack of specificity with the members is frustrating to some republican senators. they told people in these meetings that they try to get sort of at least a side deal with them. mcconnell still faces his choice. he's still trying to get a republican-on deal. i think if they want a bill, despite the fact they might get a better policy deal, getting a democratic deal through the house i think is impossible. >> i don't think that's impossible at all. >> not any time soon. >> i see it happen all the time. you get 40 or 50 democrats and things get much, much easier. >> john heilemann, you were going to say something? >> i know you were going to talk about polls in a second but i was doing some math yesterday. >> wow. >> wow.

>> with an abacus. >> at least someone is. >> is it a good or bad situation if you take the popularity of the bill and add it to the president's approval rating and you're still under 50. >> that's not good. >> that's not good, right? that's not a good combo. i'm not good at math but that's not a good situation. >> and maybe perhaps they don't trust you. a slew of new devastating polls show the republicans' effort to replace obamacare effort struggling. four polls yesterday show how deeply they unapprove of their plan. people doesn't like it. they find it to be insulting. >> look at those numbers right there. and you know, willie, you can always tell when somebody's doing something they don't really believe in or that their heart's just not in. and these republicans have specifically said from the

beginning, told me off the record on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, hey, you are we have to do it first, we don't want to do it first but we have to do it first because we got to cut enough from health care so we can do our tax bill and not go through reconciliation. >> and up get tyou get the sens want to move past this, it's this effort that mcconnell has put forward to say we tried, we tried like hell to do it, here are the senators that stood in our way, none of these democrats with work with us. i get the sense at this point they would love to move past it and say we tried. >> you get a 16%, 17% approval rating when you come out with a bill that you can only describe as mean. how do you define mean? mean i guess one way legislatively you could define it would be that you actually use health care as a chance to

slash spending, sorry you can go on to a tax cut bill later on. and it's not like the burden is shared. it's not like we're going to go after medicare, that is a middle class entitlement, and medicaid. no, no, no. they're not touching the middle class entitlements. they're not touching the entitlements that their donors use. they're going after the poorest of the the poor. and people in rural america, middle america, they're the ones they're attacking. again, you just can't even dispute it because they've admitted it and they're cutting health care for the poorest americans so they can move forward with a big tax cut. >> that's numbers are completely understandable and surprising they're not lower than they are because the people drafting this health care bill in the house and the senate are so far

removed from the reality of every day life that it is nearly shocking when you realize who they are. what is the most important aspect or one of the most important aspects of your life? your family. cigarettes and dog racing are second and third. first and third but go ahead. >> my kids, i hope my kid don't go to the emergency room, they don't get sick. your parents are in a nursing home, they're in elder care or whatever. that's going to be cut or removed. you're going to be isolated, on an island with no health insurance at all. this bill has been drafted in secret in both the house, more or less, and the senate certainly. there have been no real hearings on this. >> there was a rose garden ceremony where the president made everybody look like fools, members of congress, a proven liar, and they went to the white house to be made to look like

fools. it's amazing. >> they don't have the courage on whatever convictions they have on changing health care. they want to cut the rate of spending growth for medicaid, they have to explain why that's better to america rather than just deficit reductions. >> or lie about it and say we're cutting medicaid. oh, we're not doing that. forget the numbers, we're not doing that. >> i can't see why anyone would say this is a good bill. it's defined by the parts that are unpopular and unappealing, not even trying to make the case it would be better. >> here is the tragedy for small government conservatives -- there are two problems out there you cannot deny. one, medicaid, along with medicare. going bankrupt, unsustainable, will wreck our economy over the next 20, 30 years. two, obamacare. it's got a lot of problems, got

a lot of flaws. democrats can say what they want to sashs ty, the program is not working the way it was supposed to work. it wasn't working the way it was supposed to before donald trump got there. this provides us with an opportunity. we've got two very difficult problems. the hardest thing in the world to do is to take care of health care. it's probably going to take a year of hearings to really do this right. but medicaid, it's going bankrupt but we want to save it. and we're not going to tell the poorest people and people that get their health care in rural america, we're going to put it all on your shoulders. we're going to mix medicare and medicaid at the same time and say we're basically going to steal $750 billion from the poorest of americans in rural america so we can give tax cuts

to our donors. >> john heilemann. >> i've got nothing to add to that. >> is there anything wrong on policy that anyone can deny? >> there are huge differences between the way democrats and republicans would like to fix these problems. it would take a long time to come up with a solution that both sides can sort of agree on. it's not an easy problem and there are deep divisions over how to fix those two problems and there's agreement they're both problems. you can throw your arms up and say let's get together on this or you can throw the finger to people and say -- >> where are the democrats in they were get on the banks. guess what, my atm machine works. my insurance company is constantly aggravating me. where are they at the insurance companies in it's a bag job

these insurance companies have with this health care and legislative system. >> we pay more money for health care than anyone where else in the world. we have all of these false mechanisms that are getting in the way of a more free market approach. >> on medicare and medicaid, there's a pretty incredible report about a meeting earlier this week where mitch mcconnell took rob portman to task and said when you were omb director, you were all about fixing entitlements, where are you now? how can you say you can allow medicare to grow? rob portman says this is preposterous, you're just taking medicaid away from 750,000 in my state and not fixes the problem of medicare and medicaid.

>> and the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer at a faster rate than anywhere else in our history. this is where the republicans say we're going to cut trillions from the poorest and give it to the republicans. >> and hey, way to go, you're a populist. >> did you see his "time" magazine cover? >> yes! >> did you guys see mine, too? >> i love that cover. >> willie can tell you the two things that were going on, 1987, this was right after -- what did i do? >> you need this to feel good about yourself, joe. >> i won the masters. >> remembers nicklaus in '86. i opened for you on the original

joshua tour. they kicked me off, they were embarrassed because the crowd were coming out and cheering for me more than this many and i said screw it, i'm going to go play augusta. >> and you're still stunning stunningly -- >> nothing max a man feel better -- >> he's covering his hand here because they're teensy. i was talking about trump. >> donald trump was on the cover of "time" magazine 14 times. >> that wasn't enough, was it? >> he always needs more. it's a sign. the senate republicans' plan is unpopular even with republicans, the party in charge. 35% of republicans approve in the npr/pbs/marist survey.

enthusiasm is dropping, even among president trump's core supporters, the kaiser health tracking policying dips from last month. among all voters in the quinnipiac poll, 24 support the cuts to medicaid, 71% oppose. as for the president's handling of the health care issue, 29 approve, 63% disapprove. >> he's pretty good, almost at 30%. >> i'm only laughing because the or option is crying because this is a very sad time in the country as history. kristen, tell us about these numbers. what do you make of them? >> reporter: these numbers are not great. >> there you go! >> normally if you go to a group of voters and you say republicans are trying to do x, y or z, people who consider themselves republicans will just instinctively say, well, i trust

my own party to handle this issue. on this there is not consensus among republican voters about what should be done except, hey, you've run in election after election after election and said you're going to repeal and replace obamacare and here's your shot. that's what makes the politics of this on the senate side so fascinating is you have members from the far right saying they're not going to vote for this bill, it's not conservative enough, doesn't repeal obamacare enough with many of those members having a lot of folks in their state who rely on medicaid. they've got to vokally make it sound like they oppose the bill for conservative reasons. they sort of know that the folks in will their state, a lot of folks in his state rely on medicaid. a lot of people can be affected by this bill potentially very negatively. so they haven't been able to

rally republicans behind, hey, this is the thing that's going to replace obamacare. >> christian, senator mcconnell, lead are mcconnell, had to have some idea of what this process was going to be like given what they just watched in the house shortly before, with something that polled in the teens as well. they did get a bill through. he went in with eyes wide open. do you think at this point he actually believes he can get this through? maybe he gets to the cbo tomorrow if he's lucky and i have to imagine he expected a lot of members would make noise that there unhappy with things or they'd want to make changes. everybody wants to be able to go back to their home state and that i i fought for this thing that will give moore funding to rural hospitals. so everything in the senate

thinks they're the most important member of the so politics are a little different than you might find on the house size. i think always the tightrope he was going to have to walk was going to be very challenging. you can lose a couple of folks from the moderate side, somebody like a senator heller, but you have to assume in the end, you'll get the mike lees on board by saying do you want to be the guy to prevent us from getting obamacare? ? and it seems like there are enough reservations that nobody thinks they're going to be the only one. >> all right, kristen. >> the good news is, though, if you're republican, it's like this coverage is look buried in the up in.

when people are waking up in hotels across america, nobody's going to see that only 12% of americans -- here you're going to have to go like this now. of americans support -- >> in general would you say that. >> the president doesn't follow the media closely. so still ahead on "morning joe." >> the reading part, i doubt it. three big players in the health scene. >> let's show it, here. if he watches the television set. >> screaming headlines -- everyone hates it. you hurt people and you're destroying people and the republican party. >> t.j. is the worst director ever. by the way, do you know he was on a cruise yesterday when he screwed up halperin's shot?

on a cruise. how in the world -- t.j. has what brief case, he like opens it up. you know that, right? t.j. is still screwing up after all these years. he's on a disney cruise and he's screwing thanksgiving up. >> the member of the west virginia senate delegation's democratic joe manchin, the other member, who is often seen as someone who can help bridge the divide. first let's go to bill karins. >> he never bridges the divide. he's a divider, not a uniter. >> do you remember that time in '72 when you and i brokered the peace in vietnam and he and i went in and blew it up. >> the war went on for three more years because of him. >> and he was proud of it. >> bill, unite us. >> i'm trying to get my years

straight, '72. >> you were young. >> i got some video to show you of a tornado outbreak in iowa. a little worse than people expected. thankfully no injuries, no deaths. we had about 24 reported tornadoes luke this one and others were bigger. a couple of barns were destroyed. if you're in the kansas city area, i-70, that's the section of greatest concern for a few tornadoes today. st. louis, storm is coming at you late tonight. we had a fire in burbank yesterday threatening home. we just jumped the number up to 43 large blazes. very warm in the middle of the country and the humidity is sneaking up. d.c. at 90 today, new york city and boston still not bad. tomorrow when we jump up to warmer temperatures. and the fourth of july weekend forecast, nothing horrible, no

washouts but rain on saturday, by sunday not too bad but a new storm system sunday into monday will come to the ohio valley. by the time we get to the fourth of july, kansas, indianapolis, ohio valley, that's where we'll have some storms. some of those early morning and afternoon parades could have problems. we'll update as we get closer to the fourth of july and the forecast. new york city today a little warmer, 82 degrees if you didn't like the coolness yesterday. hot tomorrow in the 90s. you're washingtonitching "morni" we'll be right back. ♪ lhello, it's me ♪ researchers of technologies that one day you will. some call them the best of the best. some call them veterans.

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and priebus in the room. the report said tillerson's pent-up frustrations exploded last friday and reportedly yelled about damaging leaks from the white house and the, quote, pore paid torpedoing of his hand-picked nominees from the state department. he did choose a few good ones but they're gone. a source said rex is a 65-year-old guy who worked his way up at the bottom from exxon and chafes at the idea of taking order from a 38-year-old political operative. even the president's top aides sometimes have a tough time reaching him. >> that's just b.s., total b.s. by the way, what rex tillerson did was not unprofessional.

>> it's too late. >> it's not too late. i hope not. this white house, because donald trump wants his son-in-law to be the de facto secretary of state -- >> the guy with no experience. >> and anybody going in knows that. he wants jared to be the defacto secretary of state. they have cut rex tillerson off at the knees of single day. they don't let him put in qualified people in the state department. >> they have him doing little events with ivanka. >> because they're thinking we don't really need a secretary of state, jared's going to be running everything himself. they've now gotten into a situation, they said it, i'll testify under oath they said it repeatedly, jared's going to be the defacto secretary of state. what they're doing is they're

actually slashing funding for the state department. they're not letting rex tillerson get his people in and it's causing an international crisis where foreign interests aren't calling the state department anymore. rex tillerson has to do this every single day. this is a man of substance, a man who has done great things in his life and they're handcuffing him because they want people who have never done anything before in government running the state department. >> there are key ambassadorial positions that are still unfilled. they don't have people to call back in the state department because at the desk level, assistant secretaries of state, many of them are missing, far eastern, middle eastern. the entire administration, there's a gap in the

appointments. >> boom, crunch, no secretary of navy. will's no ambassador to japan. it's incredible what is going on in this administration in terms of work to fill key diplomatic posts. rex tillerson ran within of the world's largest companies and he's been treated late lie like a gh-12. >> donald trump didn't put a patsy in at secretary of state. he runs a company like you run a private company. and he has hit his breaking point. politico suggested it was ego and he didn't want to take order from a 38-year-olds. to me it's about a guy who need the tool to do his jobs and he's not going to be given those tools. >> he's been set up for failure

and it's happening every day. they're not even letting him put his people in, after donald trump promised him that he would be able to pick people that were running the state department with him. >> the dynamics of power centralized in the white house, cabinet secretary frustrated about personnel early on. the overlay here that's different is this white house, the not because there are some white house aides tho are disgruntled never been seen before. >> from the president himself. if you're someone like ricks tillerson, it's amazing it's taken this long -- >> and rex tillerson, mika, has been working very well with secretary mattis. those two are in constant communication. they're trying to work through problems and yet they can't get the president of the united

states to give them the people they need to make america strong, to make america safe because he's got this freakish idea that he's going to let his. >> you think about this administration, where is the bright spot for a lot of republicans and where is the one source of reassurance for a lot of democrats. you look at till areson, mattis, mcmaster to some extent. that's been it so far. if you start to frustrate, alienate they're the one thing that people look to and says that's okay, that looks all right, those are adults, they're in charge. >> and they're tullly making policy that counters what dpt -- >> this is play with fire -- >> everybody m washington in the administration needs to look at this from i think a point of

view where you're not lobotomized. >> let's say someone came in to nbc and took over nbc and started tweeting wildly about people's appearances, bullying people, talking about people in the competition be underthis person would be thrown out. it's just not normal behavior. there about these are legitimate concerns at this point. we have never seen anything like this before. is there any precedent in the history, in the united states of america? >> there may be precedent in other countries. that's not a good sign. >> the administration will try to blame but the fact is rex tillerson knew who he wanted as

his number two and he wasn't allowed to have that person. that was months ago. >> elliott abramson. >> way back. and i've been told by four people in the administration over the past six months that jared kushner was going to be the de facto secretary of state. so people can blame whom ever they want to blame -- >> maybe people want that. >> but donald trump and jared kushner's idea has been from the very beginning that he would be the secretary of state and they would just get somebody that would go around the world, smoke cigars with leaders, slap him on all the business was going to be done by jared. >> that's frightening. >> so let rex tillerson do his job or name jared kushner secretary of state. rex, you're either secretary of state or you're not secretary of

state. and if they're not going to let you be secretary of state, go home! you deserved it, have your retirement, retirement,in and we'll tell you how secretary of states of really work. >> the president is doing given. "new york times" columnist brett stevens about his latest piece. "morning joe" will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ whoo! ♪ ♪ you got to let me know, should i stay or -- ♪ i no longer live with the uncertainties of hep c. wondering, what if? i let go of all those feelings.

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does the president understand the complexities and details -- >> i don't know whether he does or not. >> the question came following a piece in the "new york times" that suggested the president lacks the command of the legislation. as if on cue, president tweeted. "some of the media likes to say

i'm not totally engaged in health care. wrong, i know the subject in and o out." >> at the times, they just throw the pulitzer prizes to you. >> they used them as coasters. >> "call your office. the "new york times" spoke to ma many. joining us is brett stevens. >> i hard you got off the twitter. >> i did. >> why? >> i needed peace of mind. >> why did you do it?

>> i thought -- i realized that twitter brings out the worst in -- it's like political pornography, which is in the sense that it's like your neighborhood grunting brain, whatever pops out is there. and i just thought i don't want to be a part of these conversations. i don't want to spend time seeing what people are saying about me on twitter. i don't want it to reflect my angers when people say things are outrageous. so i discovered, the news media existed for thousands of years without twitter, it can continue to exist and it's fine. >> john heilemann, you said you related to the column. >> twitter has become a cesspool. i use it, i continue to use it, i ignore a lot of the most heinous stuff that gets said but everyone who spends any time on twitter has noticed how much vial, nasty, reflexive garbage

is thrown at the direction of everyone. >> everyone. >> everyone at this table has had it happen it it them and have i some really nice constructive relationships on twitter, i like it as a way of following the news but the vast majority of people on twitter are people venting their spleens. >> the country is our number one twitter user. the comment you just read, how indignant he was ne he wouldn't know the the health care. that's what you were getting out of twiner. >> doesn't reflect well be the presidency or what it has reacted. >> twitter has revaed the true nature of this man, has shown the dark element of the presidency.

thanks to twitter we know. >> i think if you go on twitter and you go on twitter angry, i don't think it reveals character. i think it twists and distorts care ter because you've got to put it in 140 characters, there's no room for nuance and many times it brings out the absolute worst in people. >> i use it to swap pie recipes. >> okay. >> i think that when strangers criticize people on twitter, i don't get that but i sort of can comprehend the impulse a little bit. it when people attack people they know that to me it is truly in the modern era, the way twitter has revealed that people will attack me on twitter and then call me up for advice or help. i just find what that reveals about human nature is something i find unfathomable. >> it's that balance of what

john said i treat it like a ticker as most, like a newsfeed. though i thought at the bottom of the show, you particularer is the best thing going. i've just gotten to a point clsh if this that makes them feel better and they do what instead of ticking ten, 011, 2012, 13,

it's now harder to go in and find those people because it is cluttered by so much hate. >> well, when the president does it, it's a really sad sign. >> it's really special. we'll be right back. more from brett that's us when we return on "morning joe." when this bell rings... ...it starts a chain reaction... ...that's heard throughout the connected business world. at&t network security helps protect business,

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look at that, look at that. >> i know. are you bret's son? o oh, my, that's so humanizing. >> you have a son. looks good on you. >> you're so cute. >> how old are you? >> 12. >> oh, it's a new york team. you guys go out and -- yankee stadium? >> do you talk politics with

him? >> more and more. he's the more conservative child. >> you shun your liberals? >> no, i shun my lob rals. >> you want a big tax cut? >> tax cut. >> your latest column, "the president versus fake news again," you write up president trump's latest tirade and say in part, if nothing else jum be and likably he knows his mark shows the additional weakness of being susceptible to more reproach. institutions with a cian chens have a tendency to build themselves wook. preself-ing, even culture vaing a pass the news media ought to

take not to underestimate the threat it pace faces from the white house and i totally agree with you on this. i think what the president and his sex trars are doing every day is extremely dangerous, upon parkhad a hitting american president who operates with such open and aggressive disdain for the idea of a prepress. >> he disparages. i men, he could be suit for the things he's saying. mika, you, willie, myself and mark halperin throughout the summer and the dwal of 2015 held up newspapers with drfting donald trump will gfr get love

5%, 10%, 15%. by the end of the campaign, we mocked saying we didn't understand. the president had their head supporter you're like they were wrong during the entire campaign. why should i believe them now? >> that's true. >> and what's scary is we only have to be wrong once for him to say you see, it's fake news. >> yeah, but we were wrong for 18 months. you understand that. the media was wrong for 18 months. >> we were mistaken. we weren't lying. this is one of the things that he does. there's a difference between -- >> but willingly mistaken. as you know, there was a huge cultural divide. people stay third down their bubble. nobody cared to go to scranton. if they had spent a week there, they'd be like trump is going to win. >> that's right. that ought to be a call for us to be better at what we do. he's accusing of us something

else. he's accusing us of dishonesty. that's the why he operates. that was why i was so alarmed by the decision to cnn to cashier three reporters behind this report which turned out to be wrong or insufficient. >> which they handled well. >> he handled it with a great deal of grace. okay. you made a mistake. you move on. but the white house sees this as an opportunity to confirm a hypothesis for its supporters, for its followers who are not making the distinction and think cnn is out willfully to get the president, not simply to report the news. >> right. and christen, just to be totally very clear, because i think you talked about this during the campaign along with us. nobody is saying that what donald trump is doing now is right. in fact, we think it's extraordinarily dangerous. called the media enemy of the people. but at the same time if you look in middle america, if you -- he

has a more willing audience, a more receptive audience because the media got it wrong for the entire 18 months of his campaign. >> i think that's right. and i think you don't have to be someone who is hooked up to an iv drip of rush to think they might not love this president and they might want to put first the things that are bad about him. if you're a voter who may not love this president. you may not like his tweets. you may not love that he's putting up a fake cover of himself at his golf club. if you're trying to make ends meet and want to know what's happening with immigration and you turn on the news and the stories you see are look at this ridiculous thing the president tweeted or put up at his golf club, you can be forgiven for thinking the media just wants to make fun of the president and think that's a dereliction of their voters that think that

media has not done an effective job of explaining what's really happening truthfully on stories that matter to them. and that is only heightened as brett mentioned, they only have to make a mistake once for trump to say see, i told you so. >> so what really matters on stories that are important to them? what has this president established for the base? let's spell it out? let's see. what have we got? >> look. this is just the thing. i think media would be happy to report accomplishments. i'd like to know what they are. >> i'm asking you. >> and the accusation that somehow the russia story is some giant distraction strikes me as mad. look, we're dealing with something we've never dealt with before. we've never had a president operating on twitter at this velocity, with this intensity and with this desire to go after core institutions of the united states. >> to create damage from within. >> here we are.

it's june 29th. if the president over the first half of the year, we're coming up on the first half of the year. if he at any time said this concern about russia, we share it too. we want to make sure they don't hack our electoral system next time, it's a real problem. let's dig into it. if he had ever said that, the press wouldn't be hounding them, feeling the need to do this so much, but he's pretended like it doesn't happen. >> you can project your personal confidence that you did nothing wrong, say i believe i did nothing wrong. i think the investigation will reveal that, but, and he never gets past but. which is it is clear to me paced on what the intelligence agencies has told me that the russian government interfered in our election, and that ought to concern all of us, and i hope we get to the bottom of it. that's easy to get to. for all of us who travel a lot, this narrative that the russia

story is a hoax has taken hold among trump supporters. they'll come up and say you'll covering a lie. >> what willie said is the truth. it's not just that he's not taken it by the horns and said this is a threat. we were attacked in 2016. we need to stop -- we're probably under attack today, and we need to stop any further incursions because in 2018 and 2020 this is going to be a central issue. he's not only said that's not true. he's called it a hoax. he says it's a conspiracy being propagated by the fake news media. he claims it's immediate up in order to try to take him down. that is not only -- >> un-american. >> it's not only a ridiculous thing, but you're a commander in chief. you're not keeping the country safe. that's a damaging position for him to be in. >> it is a damaging position. also, let's keep everything in perspective. saying he's getting away with

this and that. he has approval ratings from 34% to 39%. his health care bill is going up in smoke. he hasn't accomplished one thing over the past sixth months. that's significant. >> gorsuch. >> that is, but i'm talking legislatively. so he's paying a heavy price for this. >> so is our country. >> i know it is, mika. i'm not fighting you on this. >> the republicans aren't abandoning him. >> they're starting? . >> brett, thank you. >> brett, can you stay? i want to borrow money from your conservative son? i have a feeling he's got some. >> he has pockets full of cash. >> especially with the tax cut coming. >> thank you very much christen. >> thank you for being with us. coming up, both senators of west virginia be join the discussion. they both agree the senate health care bill would hurt their constituents. plus, rand paul with his ideas for improving the bill.

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choicehotels.com. badda book. that's it?. he means book direct at choicehotels.com for the lowest price on our rooms guaranteed. plus earn free nights and instant rewards at check-in. yeah. like i said. book now at choicehotels.com we need almost all of them. that's never easy. we had essentially 50 show up to the meeting and the other two are on our side. i think we're going to get at least very close, and i think we're going to get it over the line. there was a great feeling in that room yesterday. health care is working along very well.

we could have a big surprise with a great health care package. now they're happy. >> what do you mean about big surprise? >> i think you could have a great, great prize. >> that's -- >> joe maddon -- >> the poor cubs? >> when joe maddon goes to the mound in the 7th inning and he's talking to a starter and saying you got a couple more innings in you, and the starter says, yeah. it's getting good. he knows you're lying. and you can see that was madden. if madden could have taken -- >> that was spooky. >> if madden could have taken the ball away from trump right there, he would have. >> just give him the pat on the butt, send him back. >> call for pence. >> he had a hostage audience forced to smile. >> and also he said we're going to do great, great things in health care. >> he does this. he does. i'm surprised he didn't say big surprise coming in two weeks. >> it's the apprentice. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it's thursday, june 29th and that's your president. >> where america's the loser.

>> we're on america's the biggest loser. that's not funny. >> we understand you don't think anything is funny these days? cht. >> i really don't. we totally disagree. you have hope. i think we're in big trouble. >> i don't punctuate the end of every sentence with i have hope. >> i have to squeeze it in every time i can. >> mark halpern and brett stevens and his son are here. >> that was quite a unique way. >> you're the snl guy. >> yeah. >> i like it. >> that was a good episode. classic video vault. >> national affairs analyst for nbc news, john hailman, and joining the conversation in washington, political reporter for the washington post and moderator of washington week on pbs, robert costa. >> he's looking good. >> you look well-rested.

>> he's a grownup. >> costa has strong hair. >> and haley winfield cunningham is with us. good to have you on board this hour, page. >> great to be on. all right. a slew of new devastating polling on the republican's effort to replace obama care. they're waking up in shock this morning that people hate it so much, but here's the deal. four polls yesterday showed how deeply unpopular their dumb plan is. a mere 16% of support in a poll. 12 % approval in the usa today patrol. 27% to replace the aca in the fox news poll. and 17% in the npr poll. anyone here shocked and appall? >> the senate republican plan is

even unpopular with republicans. with 35% approving. only 37% approve in the quinn pea yak poll. enthusiasm is even dropping along the base. among all voters 24% support the proposed cuts to medicaid. 71% disapprove. >> it's about as bad as it gets in the middle what has to be one of the most important legislative fight the president will face. >> it's about which party is willing to spend more. no discussion of free markets or long term changes to the health care system for better outcomes for families and providers in. no support from interest groups like doctors or nurses or

anybody else. i can't imagine how they think you can pass a piece of legislation like this. it's so unpopular and they're not trying to sell the parts they believe in. >> and brett, it's just been an afterthought for republicans. we were saying the first hour, really for conservatives the tragedy here is medicaid is going bankrupt along with medicare over the next 20 years or so. they've got to fix it. everybody knows that except for paul kroegman, everybody knows it. and the health care system is broken. we're spending more money than any country per patient and we're not getting the results. there are no free market incentives in the system. and yet, republicans rushed a health care bill out there that's doomed to failure. they're not trying to fix it or bend the cause curve. they're just trying to scoop up $750 billion for a tax bill in the future. >> this is what you have when you get a lennonist government.

let's do it as quickly as possible. >> that's what steve bannon said, not you. he said he was a lennonist, and that's how he wanted to run this government. >> one of the important points, you're putting your finger on it. you need to teach, talk to the american people, use the bully pulpit to explain that part of what's wrong with our health system is the price signals feel. to get the same blood test can cost anywhere from $250 to $10,000. when was the last time when you needed a routine blood test when you said how much is this going to cost me, you don't think about it because it's presumably carried by your insurer. and prices are wrong all over the place. including for obama care. the individual mandate, why not pay the penalty? it's $695. insurance is more expensive. republicans could have spent time explaining this as part of a reform process. they never bothered to do so.

they said repeal, and this is where they are. >> and willie, every one of them told me, everyone said this isn't about health care. we've got to get this out of the way so we can go to the tax bill without reconciliation. you're taking on the most complex legislative battle of your lifetime, and it's an afterthought. >> it's odd to say we just want to get it behind us. if it's the most important promise you've given to your voters to just push it aside, get it out of the way, get a vote or be on the record and say i was against obama care is strange. bob, how did the push for the senate bid fell apart. that implies it was there in the first and somehow fell apart. did mitch mcconnell miscalculate the support? >> he's still trying to get the votes. that's why he hasn't pulled the bill entirely from the floor. he knows a lot of republicans

are all talking about the general voter polls. they're really thinking about republican voters. is there going to be a cost if republicans do not move forward? of course there's a political cost if they do. medicaid states with expansion are concerned. republican governors are putting pressure on a lot of republican senators. but they really do wonder when i talk to them at the capital, does my base come out for me in 18 or 20 or 22 if i'm seen as someone who didn't go to the end of the line to try to get repeal? will i have to pay a price with the lack of enthusiasm with my people? >> is there a bill that rob portman in ohio or dean heller given the hard line they've taken against the roll back of medicaid expansion in the current bill, is there a bill where they can get together with the rest of their republican colleagues? >> i feel like i'm living in two different worlds as a reporter. people at the white house think

the meeting went well on tuesday, that there is a chance for the president and mcconnell to work together to give opioid funding to senator portman and others to get some kind of medicaid change that makes the medicaid expansion states more comfortable and to include amendments by people like senator cruz and senator paul. others say this thing is almost dead, hanging onto political life. there is no way to balance out the moderates and conservatives, unless they can really thread the needle. they're skeptical. >> bob, what do you think about the fundamental kind of wisdom. you have an unpopular president and an unpopular law. between those two things given the stakes involved and the complexity of this task, that is where i think the grounding wisdom of the last of the latter point that you made a second ago. >> the president is hovering over this process, and he is engaged in terms of some phone

calls, john. but at the same time, most senate republicans told me they didn't really want the president to get involved, because his popularity and ratings in the 30s right now in most national polls. and so they really want to check the box off so they can get onto tax reform, make sure the base feels like they did what they could on health care. but they don't want to have this as a project where the whole party puts everything up there publicly with theater. like they did when they were trying to pass it in the house. >> paige, if there is a deal to be had in the senate that appeases the currently holdout republicans and moderates, what's the deal? >> the next 24 hours are really about senate majority leader mcconnell trying to put the frogs back in the wheelbarrow. i think in his mind the bill he rolled out was trying to strike a middleway between the conservatives and moderates. it rolled back employer and enacted big medicaid cuts.

it basically kept the obama care subsidies. but it's a narrower path than he thought previously. we heard this morning that they're working on provisions to add in more opioid funding which could get portman on board and also enacts more flexible for health savings accounts to be used. senator cruz has been pushing an amendment that allows people to opt out of the obama care regulations as long as they offer a plan that's compliant. there are a lot of staff working behind the scenes to see what tweaks they can make to the legislation. >> robert, how do they pass this bill? when you have dean heller in nevada -- >> retweaking it? >> tweaking it? how do they pass it when you have dean heller that's going to do what the very popular governor, brian sandavol needs,

and how do you have portman in ohio who's population desperately needs medicaid funding? is same with moore capito in west virginia? i see how you tweak it so conservatives get there, but how do you tweak it in swing states from wisconsin to pennsylvania and west virginia? and nevada? how do they ever support something that cuts medicaid by $750 billion on top of the 300 billion cut in the budget? >> and take it a step further. let's say this bill gets watered down to the point where some senators like portman or shelly moore capito , let's say you pas it through the senate by a narrow margin, 5 1 votes.

then it goes back to the house. that's an entirely different chamber. and house speaker ryan has to confront a caucus with a bill that's moderate in their view in the senate. >> here's a couple of sound bites on the concept of republicans and democrats working together on this. take a listen. >> mr. president, would you be willing to negotiate with all of them in. >> i got to find out if he's serious. he hasn't been serious. he's done a lot of bad talking, and he just doesn't seem like a serious person. >> i think what the democrats have made clear is they don't want to deal with anything that repeals and replaces obama care. i think it would be hard to see a scenario where democrats could be willing to come to the table in good faith. >> would you be willing to work across the aisle? >> who can you work with over

there? i think we'll be able to do this. we have to. if we don't, we're going to have socialized medicine. >> for right now, i think politically they'd love to see us kind of twist and squirm for a while. >> it's unfortunate that our democratic colleagues refuse to work with us in a serious way to address obama care's failures in the seven years since they passed it. i regret they have an unserious attitude about this today. >> warren hatch making the guy who was friends with ted kennedy and worked quietly behind the scenes with him now saying work with democrats. >> and there was a press briefing yesterday off camera. are they afraid to show their faces? what's the concept of the audio only press briefing? anybody know? >> that's a good question. >> part of the trying to revive the radio format. >> no. they are trying to downgrade the chance it will make news. >> but to this whole discussion,

one option that's available to the president is kind of a schwarzenegger option. he ran for governor during the recall after gray davis as this right wing republican. he had his agenda handed to him by voters and basically spent the rest of his time governing as a democrat. that has to be in the back of donald trump's mind. >> and what does a compromised bill look like, paige? >> well, i think, remember, mcconnell left about $2 billion in there to work with in the legislation. he very well could enact tweaks to medicate and peg it to a faster growth rate. that would be something that would help to attract the moderates. and there is some thinking in washington that if you get a bill that does pass the senate, you take it over to the house. these freedom caucus members and conservatives who have been promising for seven years to repeal and replace obama care are told this is the bill. you vote for it or against it. at the end of the day, are they really going to vote against a

bill that repeals much of the affordable care act. that's sort of the question. i think it might be easier in a way to get conservatives on board than if you enact some of the tweaks that could get moderates. i think in mcconnell's mind, there's a pathway forward even though it looks steep over the next couple of weeks. >> paige yrk thank you for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. jon? >> there is nothing they can do to the bill. there are things they can do to maybe get it passed. there's nothing to do to a bill like this to make it more popular. the best thing that could happen for republicans is for this thing to die. this bill is not going to be more popular than 20%. they're going to try to explain why it's a good bill and it will never change. >> bob, they have to get democrats to embrace a process? >> well, the republican view is democrats think they can take over the house in 2018. they're not going to have an appetite in the next 18 months

to work with republicans on health care. here's the problem with the scenario. republicans think if they don't do anything and the insurance markets start to collapse in certain states or the law starts to have more problems, the president as he signalled may want to blame democrats, but they'll have the burden in their senate races to defend themselves as the party and power that didn't fix health care as it imploded in certain areas. even if it was a president obama piece of legislation, the republicans on capitol hill think the president's argument right now, they can blame democrats isn't really going to hold for them. >> bob, what's the scenario by which a profoundly unpopular piece of legislation in the house and senate produces a bill that will suddenly by adding a couple billion dollars in opioid funding become a bill that's north of 20 % popularity? >> there's probably no chance. i think mcconnell's only other option in that situation,

according to people close to him, is he has to do piecemeal legislation month by month to show some action on the repeal front. but you're right. there's no momentum right now on the right that this is somehow going to become popular. you don't see the conservative media rallying. >> bob, by the way, i'm sure you know this, but every time washington week comes over, willie and i go over to the holiday in. we give advice on tax evasion in spain. get a carton of cigarettes. >> parliament and menthals and then we watch washington week. >> bob costa, thank you. >> who are you going to have on washington week? we like to call beckham and ronaldo beforehand. >> that sounds like a heck of a friday night. great friday night. i love it. we're going to have sara cliff

from vox, i believe, and michael share from time and a few others to talk through the health care politics and what the president has to do. >> all right. bob costa, thank you. >> we'll have a great one. >> you notice costa's hair has become more stylish since he became a tv star. >> i keep getting text messages from my family to get it cut. >> they're right. >> no. grow it. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," senator rand paul wants to tear apart obama care. senator joe manchin doesn't. can the two really find common surround with the other side of the aisle? we'll talk with each of them straight ahead. first manchin's fellow west virginian shelly moore capito among the hand full of republicans who pushed back on her party's bill. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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>> i can tell you myself as one moderate conservative democrat with many other moderates want to sit down and work with our moderate republican friends to fix and repair the affordable care act. >> my hope is we don't come back and say come back in two weeks. >> i'm a progressive democrat. i would sit down with them in a heart beat. they don't have the license to do that from mitch mcconnell. >> we're willing to debate and compromise on health care, but we have to be included. president trump, my republican friends, the choice is yours. >> joining us now from washington, one of the republicans opposing the current version of the senate health care bill, senator shelley moore capito. >> he had somebody on and others

suggested there could be a little bit of tweaking of this bill and maybe pull people like yourself and rob portman over, but how do you -- i say this as a conservative, but how do you ever get there representing a state that would be devastated by these cuts to medicaid? >> that's been my source of concern. i'm very concerned about the medicaid portion and what it would do to a state like mine. we have the largest per capita population that's in the medicaid program. it is a wonderful safety yet for so many of our west virginia people. at the same time, i think reform is needed in the program to make the dollars go farther. i think health professionals and everybody would agree. i think it's thread the needle. and you know, you've been behind the scenes trying to figure it out. we were on the house side together and the senate your margins are narrower. we're very -- i am very passionate about how i feel and conservatives on the other side are pushing their issues and so

far there hasn't been too much give, because i'm not willing to go back home and say this program is not going to work for you, but i'm still going to go for it anyway. >> do you think that the president is engaged and understands the plan that you're being asked to push? >> you know what? i think the president understands that many parts of obama cair are are broken and w need to fix it. i think we also -- in the meeting i thought he did a nice job listening to everybody, and imploring us. he did say more than a few times, put more money into this, which obviously helps the lower income and safety net and helps folks like i'm concerned with the opioid crisis. the president is definitely engaged, and i just talked to him again yesterday. so i think he's working the phones pretty well. >> so, senator, 10.5% of the people in your state are on medicaid. kentucky is not far behind.

the opioid abuse problem in your state and many others is catastrophic. don't you think it would have been a better idea to have public hearings rather than to have done so much of this behind closed doors? why did that happen? >> you know, i think we've talked about it so much in terms of the last seven years in terms of what's going wrong with the program. i don't have an opposition to public hearings, but i think in order -- you could see how difficult it's been with the only public document that came out last week to try to weave the balance. and i think leader mcconnell really has worked with all of us in a very open forum to try to figure out and all of us, i mean republicans, all of us to try to figure out the best way or the pressure points that we feel. and so i think now we see where we are. we're sort of at a stalemate right now that's trying to be broken through whether that can be done, i think we'll find out tomorrow.

>> hey, senator, it's willie geist. good to see you this morning. we've talked a lot about the politics. but i want to ask you about the human toll you think this might take. you're asking for $45 billion spending on the current opioid crisis. the current legislation has 2 billion. what would happen in your state if it's only $2 billion or if the medicaid expansion were rolled back. when you talk to people, what are they most worried about at west virginia? >> the opioid and the metal health are at the core of the piece. $2 million is inefficient. that was one of the things that drove me to voice my opposition, i think. but i have the medicaid piece is probably the larger piece. i think mike said that 10%, i thought i heard. it's actually 30% of west virginia is on some kind of medicaid, and so this -- these -- >> right, and the 10% is the medicaid expansion. >> expansion, right. that's about 180,000.

that's correct. we need to find a way to either keep medicaid expansion, give states the options, give states the flexibility to build in better programs or to have folks in that expansion population be able to afford with tax credits and other supplements to be able to afford. that's where the opioid money comes in, and that's where i think it would be important for my population, which is really reeling, and if people around the country don't think they're going to get it, it's coming to their state. >> what happens as a practical matter to someone on medicaid and has it taken away. >> that's my concern. i'm not dropping them off a cliff. i didn't come here to hurt people. i came here to help them. so i'm pushing for a longer glide path, and also when that person -- a better case scenario is to have somebody on a private insurance plan that they can manage themselves. but if it's unaffordable, they're not going to do it.

and so let's get that where it's instead of this, we're right there together, and the states can formulate that. i think it can be done, but it's not done in this bill. >> senator, we've been trying to explain over the past week, for any republicans out there who think medicaid just impacts the poorest among us, i've been trying to explain how medicaid cuts would be devastating in my district to the four or five hospitals, to not only -- >> hunursing homes. >> nursing homes. people suffering from alzheimer's. can you explain that part of it just for conservatives and republicans that may think it's only impacting the poor and states like west virginia. can you explain how medicaid cuts on this scale impact not only the hospitals in your states but hospitals all across america, especially middle america? >> well, particularly in rural

america. i think that medicaid is a major payer for a lot of our hospitals. our small rural hospitals that are the only point at which folks can get care anywhere close to where they live. also nursing homes. medicaid has a portion of it that goes to the aged, which when 70% of our snunursing homen west virginia are medicaid patients. children, disabled. those folks -- this bill has reform in all through the medicaid program. i want to make sure that the safety net that medicaid is, is preserved. and i don't think that's an unrepublican idea. >> no. >> not at all. >> curious. you said the president is engaged and he's spoken to you several times about it. what is he hoping you'll do? what has he said? >> obviously he hopes i'll vote for the bill and he's trying to be persuasive. >> do you think he understands what's in it? >> i think he understands the broader concept of fixing the exchanges and -- as you know,

it's very complicated. he doesn't engage in the ma knew sha of the details. that's fine. i think he's -- i've actually thought he was very good in the meeting two days ago, trying to listen so he could hear why it hasn't moved and where the different thought paths are within our own conference. and so i think that with his leadership, we'll be helpful. will it pull it over the edge? it will help. in the end we'll vote with our hearts. that's what i intend to do. >> senator, shelley moore cap t toe, thank you for being on the show. >> thank you. >> ahead, we'll bring in senator joe manchin. also ahead, a new screening protocol for international flights. a laptop ban is off the table for now. but officials are enhancing security measures. tom costello joins us next with the details. >> they did change the part where you're not allowed to wear

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john kelly announced wednesday the department has put off plans to expand a ban on

laptop computers and other electronic devices for international flights into the u.s. instead, they will implement tougher standards for airlines and airports. joining us now from reagan national airport, tom costello. good morning. >> good morning. to be clear, this does not affect domestic flights in the united states. it's only international. 320,000 people flying into the united states every day, homeland security raising the bar on all the flights. if airlines don't comply with the new directive, they could from flying to the united states, or every passenger could be banned from an electronic device in the cabin or cargo hold. >> reporter: homeland security ordering any airline that flies into a u.s. airport from abroad to meet strict new security

protocols. >> we cannot play international whack amole. instead, we must put in place new measures to keep the trvling public safe. >> reporter: the new measures come after isis claimed responsibility for downing a russian jet liner over egypt and after a bomb blew a hole in the side of a somali jet liner. a plan to expand the ban globally was shelved after airlines, foreign governments and frequent fliers pushed back. instead, a global security upgrade. more thorough carrie on bag checks and bomb sniffing dogs and more swapping for explosives and more 3-d carryon bag scanners like the ones being tested in phoenix. security experts warn every airport is at risk. >> you have people trained returning to locations all

around the world. that could increase the possibility of the smaller airports being higher risk. >> reporter: in miami mixed reaction. >> i do feel it's kind of targeted to certain countries. and i feel that it should be all countries. >> i feel that the world we live in today is so crazy. you just never know what's going to happen. >> i feel like we're trying to put a band-aid on a flesh wound and call it good. >> so the new steps will be phased in over the coming months through the summer. we're talking 2100 flights a day from 105 airports and it doesn't matter if you're coming from the middle east, europe, canada, the caribbean, mexico. all flights into the united states affected. and willie, that is what the airline industry is a bit concerned about. it says there wasn't enough collaboration on this decision and it says it prefers a risk-based approach in which you focus on the highest risk areas,

not a blanket approach to everybody. but they'll be required to go along, nonetheless. >> just so underline, it doesn't affect domestic travel. nothing changes in terms of security if you're leaving, washington, for example. >> that's right, but if you're flying into the united states, even from toronto, it applies to you. >> coming up, joe manchin represents a largely republican state. what do his constituents make of the health care plan and what can he has a democrat do about it? "morning joe" is coming right back. ♪ ♪ (vo) you can pass down a subaru forester.

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yeah, and i can watch thee bgame with directv now.? oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens. joining us now -- >> we're back. k-rock. i love that this. >> how are you guys doing out there? >> it's going great. >> anybody having a good fourth of july? >> i want a morning zoo bell on

this show. >> member of the select committee on intelligence democratic senator joe manchin -- >> joe, how you doing? >> look at that striped suit. he's dapper. >> you like it, mika? >> i like it. >> thank you. >> where are you going for the fourth of july? what's the best fourth of july event in west virginia? >> first of all, just being with my family is the best fourth of july i can have, and anywhere in west virginia. we'll be in parades, and every night there will be fireworks somewhere. there's usually fireworks in west virginia fourth of july or not. >> this is true. >> joe, i'll ask you something as something we asked shelley. how dependent is west virginia on medicaid, and how does any senator from west virginia vote for a bill that slashes medicaid

funding as much as this does without any significant reforms? >> i'm pleased shelley opposes the bill. she understands our demographics as well as i do. there's not one part of our state that hasn't been affected. if you're young, you are affected. if you're old, you're affected. if you're opiate addicted, you're affected. no one is trying to find the middle, trying to find a pathway forward. i have not spoken to mitch mcconnell. and i heard him say the democrats don't want to work with him. that's not accurate. >> okay. >> i am one that wants to work with my friends. i've been reaching out and shelley and i have been speaking. susan collins and i and dean heller and i have been speaking. we want to fix this thing and chuck schumer wants to fix it. >> how do we make that happen? the president says he doesn't think chuck schumer is serious. how do we get beyond the fact that both sides are talking at

each other? how do we get actual working together happening? >> when this first all came about, started down this path, i spoke to the president. he called. we were speaking on different issues. >> i said i'd love to help you on health care y. i just cannot go down the repeal process. we're not going to repeal it and throw it out and start it over and have anything similar to what we have now that's helping people. can you be the mr. fix it president and let's repair it? in my heart of hearts, i know he wants to fix this thing, but the repeal has been on the table. i guess the base has been pushing it. we have to get down to where, okay, first of all, can you take off the $600 billion of tax rebaits give backs to the wealthiest? can you take away just a cutting for the sake of cutting and throwing people off services they need? can you say okay, democrats, you have to meet me halfway here. can we put more conditions and

responsibilities of how you would use your health care that you just got? give you an example. i have people in west virginia, the only health care they've ever had in the past is if you're sick, go to the emergency room. that's the most expensive delivery form. some of my working people who never had insurance, had to claim worker's comp to get it. they had no preventive care. we never gave them one word of instructions. they're still going to the emergency room. there's savings. just work with us. >> mark. >> do your republican colleagues want to save medicaid or destroy or cut back the program? >> i know shelley wants to save medicaid and i know she'll work with me on it. i don't have a problem with that. the moderate groups we're speaking with, susan and dean and rob portman and lindsey graham, they know it needs to be saved and fixed. there's an element of both bases that aren't going to budge. i understand that. wouldn't it be great if we had

30 ds and 30 rs. right now they only need 25 of each. we can make this happen. >> senator, if you look at the house bill and senator mcconnell's bill, the republican bill, you see that the poor, the ill, the elderly, and the addicted really get whacked in both pieces of legislation. so this question isn't about substance. it's about you in the senate, not just you specifically but the united states senators and congress people. when normal human beings look at what has been done, they get the sense that you are totally isolated from reality, from the way people live each and every day. what's your response to that? >> come to west virginia. let me show you how real people who struggled and fought all their life and worked hard are having challenges. let me show you people that want to help themselves and want to

basically move forward with just a little bit of assistance. the government should be your partner, not your enemy, and you can't start out by saying okay, i'm going to give all the tax credits back. i'm going to give all this money back that we were trying to move forward trying to get forward and get more people insured and taken care of and a better, healthier lifestyle. i will though that auto first, the only way you can match is up to get rid of more services or throw people off because you said i got too many. there is not a compassion. there is not a heart and soul to this bill. there is no empathy to this bill there. is no compassion in this bill. i want to hold people accountable and responsible for their actions. if i'm giving you something, i want you to appreciate it, protect it and use nit a most responsible way. if i never tell you who to you do that, if i never taught you anything, you are not going to know, and that's the difference that we have. ? senator manchin, it's willie geist. i asked your colleague a minute ago, that is the people covered

now by the medicare expansion in your state and you've got a lot of them t. architect for mitch mccoll slum yes they will be pulled off over time, but thatly have a choice to go find something better for them. is that a compelling argument to the people you talked to in west virginia in or are they happy they got something and they don't want something taken away, even if it may lead to a better choice down the road? >> reporter: willie, they had choice all along, they couldn't afford it. they've had a choice is forever. they couldn't afford it. we have health clinics. we have a lot of good things in rural areas. some of these poor people cannot afford it. so, now all of a sudden, in five or ten years the economy is going to absolutely explode and they're going to be able to have all this new choice and have money in their pock to take care of it. i don't think that's the real world, willie, and let's help people. i want to get people back in the work force. i'm having a difficult time with the opioid addiction and all the other pressures we have, not

getting enough people with the skill sets to get in the work force to really make the economies bomb. that's what we're trying to work for. so few want to have empathy or sympathy for someone who got addicted after they got hurt and addicted because they were overprescribed by the partner and there is too many on the market by pharmaceutical companies, let's make sure the people that have serious illness, let's make sure that someone in a nursing home is not thrown out. that's, i'm just, c'mon, guy, have a heart. >> yeah, we kind of agree with you. senator joe manchin, thank you very much. >> it was night to be with you all from have a, great, great, fourth of july. >> you all, too. bless you all. >> god bless you. so, willie, we've we heard from a democrat in west virginia, a republican in west virginia, the republican being polite saying, hey, we will try to get through this, but you just, i don't see how the numbers are there for in

west virginia, in ohio, and so many of these other states in nevada. >> what's this big surprise? >> there is no big surprise. >> you just look at the discrepancy in numbers, joe manchin wants $45 billion to treat the opioid crisis, which is terrible in their state. mitch mcconnell, by the way, his state is having trouble in kentucky as well has $2 billion. that's a huge goal for negotiation there, that doesn't get into medicaid expansion. >> does anybody see the getting passed? >> no. >> really? >> mark halperin thinks there is. >> the reason they think there is, they promised they would do this for seven years. they can't fail, they will be left like a broken promise to all their base, they will still own the health care fund remember there is nowhere to hide. they told everybody, they'd get in, pass it, fix it. they on it no matter what. >> john heilemann, they gave everybody a chance to vote yes

or vote no and anybody can tell you, i was told the first day i walked in the house with david drier, we the authority, you can explain a no vote. there is always something bad in every bill. they can explain a no vote and then the big question is as the health care system unravels, do they point at barack obama and does their base believe them? >> i think they point at barack obama and their base believes them, they accuse of everything bad works with the base. they also have to start to at least look like even if they're fought really start to look like they're engaging if democrats on the, okay, we tried to repeal it, we tried to replace it. we couldn't get it done. obama is bad, clang the unrab eling, now, let's work in democrats at least in a token way, so let's work with them try to fix what's wrong with the process, start that thing than fix obamacare and look like they're constructive. that's how you work on this.

>> the republicans who intend to vote for this piece of legislation, do they dress up in a kamikaze costumes before they vote or after they vote? they're done? >> after they vote. >> you can't get rid of every -- >> i said it will work. >> still ahead, republican senator rand paul will be our guest as severe new polls show dismal support for the health care bill. we'll dig into those numbers. is it often we hear from secretary of state tillerson? there were new reports he was we heard in the white house when he blew up. was it unprofessional or just a long-time coming? "morning joe" will be right back. >> he needed to do it. ♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently.

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>> if we don't rescreen it by friday, it's probably the end of a sole party effort for health care, then if we don't reach it by friday, then the way forward is obamacare collects, challenged democrats weren't with us to find something better. >> inaudible question ] >> pace could fly. >> oh, you are saying there is a chance? >> yes. >> tomorrow seems to be the new deadline for senate republicans to revise their health care bill or face the awful prospect of, can you imagine, working with democrats. >> oh, dear lord.

>> new polling on the first draft shows republicans have their work cut out for them to say the least. good morning, everyone, this is thursday. >> yeah, let's get this right. >> june 29th, "morning joe" with us, we have veteran columnist -- [ inaudible ] >> don't you love that? >> senior political analyst for msnbc mark halperin. >> halperin. >> halperin. national analyst cnbc john halloman is here. columnist at the washington examiner, kristen anderson, good to have you back on this show. >> bad to be back. >> well, i mean, it's really something. >> yeah. >> they're going to have to work with democrats. like what a horrible idea? they might have to work with zra itself is there they're going to find it easier to work with democrats than their own president who undermines them, slams them, says bad things about them for fun to bully them, throw them under the bus,

make up new plans, have rose garden ceremonies, humiliate them. i mean, could it be worse? why don't you work with democrats. >> >> so there it went. mark halperin, okay, mika, halperin, you also -- >> yes. >> hi. >> he also doesn't understand any of the policy. >> no clue. >> mark halperin. >> what was the question? >> the problem is, he doesn't understand the policy, all he has been telling people all along, he told people, i don't care about any of the details. it doesn't line up with anything he promised on the campaign trail. he doesn't understand the most basic concepts. >> it's not a policy, his lack of specificity with the members is frustrating to some republican senators. they told people in these meetings, they try to get a side deal is with him.

mcconnell still faces his choice. he tried to get a republican only deem. i think if they want a deem, despite they might get a better policy deal working with democrats, getting a democratic deal through the house i think is impossible. so mcconnell is calling for it. >> i don't think it's impossible at all. >> i see it happen all the time. you get 40 or 50 democrats, things get much, much easier. john heilman, you were going to say something? >> we are going to talk about polls in a second. i was doing math, looking at that -- >> advocates. >> here's the thing, if you take the -- is it a good or bad situation if it takes the popularity of the bill and you add it to the president's approval rating. >> yeah. >> you are still under 50. >> that's fought good. >> that's not good. >> that means people are not happy. >> i'm not good at math i don't think that's a good situation. >> maybe they don't trust you. let's just go with the information here.

a slew of new devastating polls show the republicans' effort to replace obamacare is struggling. four polls yesterday showed how deeply unpopular their plan is. >> willie, that was our approval rate income high school with our teacher. >> they quickly threw it together and don't read. >> and don't care about. >> it's insulting. >> look at those numbers right there. and you know, willie, you can always tell when somebody's heart -- i'm being dead serious, you can tell when somebody is doing something they don't believe in, their hearts are not in. these republicans told me off the record on both sides of pennsylvania avenue, hey, you know what, we have to do it first. we don't want to do it first. we don't want to do it first. we have to do it first. we are have to cut enough from health care. so we can do our tax bill and not go through reconciliation. >> you get the sense they want to be on the record, even if it's not with a vote, if it's this effort mitch mcconnell put forward to get to a vote to say,

i tried. we promised we were going to replace and repeal obamacare. here are these senators who stood in our way. none of these democrats would work with us. i guess at this point they would love to move past it and say they've tried. >> you get a 12% approval rating, a 16%, a 17% approval rating. when you come out with a bill that you can only describe as mean, and how do you define mean? mean, i guess, one way legislatively, you could define it would be that you actually use health care as a chance to slash spending, so you can go on to a tax cut bill later on and it's not like the burden is shared. it's not like, you know, we will go after medicare, that is a middle class entitlement. and medicaid. no, no, no no, they're not touching the middle class entitlements. they're not touching the

entitlements their donors use, they're going after the poorest of the poor and people in rural america, middle america, they're the ones that are attacking. again, you just can't even dispute it because they've admitted it. and they're cutting health care for the poorest americans so they can move forward with a big tax cut. >> those numbers are completely understandable. and kind of surprising that they're not even lower than they are. >> yeah. >> the people drafting this health care bill in both the house and the senate are so far removed from the reality of every day life that it is nearly shocking except when you realize who they are. what is the most important aspect of your life? if you have a family? your health care. what happens to one of your kids? >> i thought you were going to say dog racing. health care, too. >> cigarettes and dog racing thkd and third. >> first and third smr your

kids, oh my god, i hope my kids don't have to go to the emergency room, my kids don't get sick. your parents and grandparents in a nursing home in elder care, whatever, so that's going to be cut or removed. you will be isolated on an island with no health insurance at all. this bill has been drafted in secret in both the house, more or less, and the senate certainly. there have been no real hearings on this. >> it was a rose garden ceremony where the president made everybody look like fools, members of congress. >> they don't have -- >> or liars and they went to the white house to be made to look like fools. >> they do not have the courage of whatever convictions that i have on captioning health care. they want to cut the rate of spending growth for medicaid. they got to explain why that's better for america rather than deficit reduction. >> or lie about it and saying, we're not actually cutting. we're cutting medicaid, oh, we're not doing that, let's not do that. >> i agree with mike, i can't

see why anyone would say this is a good bill. it's defined by the parts that are unpopular. they're not trying to make the case this would be better. >> here's the tragedy for small government conservatives. there are two problems out there that you cannot deny. one, medicaid, along with medicare, going bankrupt, unsustainable. we'll wreck our economy over the next 20, 30 years. two, obamacare, it's got a lot of problems, got a lot of flaw, democrats can say what they want to say. the program is not working the way it was supposed to work. it wasn't working the way it was supposed to work. even before donald trump got there. this provides us two wonderful opportunities to come to america and say, you know what, we got two very, very difficult problems t. hardest thing in the world to do is to take care of health care reform.

but we're going to roll up our sleeves. we will do it in public. it will take a year of hearings to do this right. number two, medicaid we have to look long term. we want to save it and save medicare. we're not going to tell the poorest americans and people that get their health care in rural america, we will put it all on your shoulders, we will bring everybody in. we will fix medicare and medicaid, study they do it if secret. they say we're going to basically steal $ 50 billion from medicaid from the poorest of americans in rural america so we can get tax cuts to our donors. john heilemann. >> i got nothing to add to it. >> is there anything wrong about that on policy? that anybody could deny? >> there are huge differences between how democrats and republicans would like to physical these various problems, you would have difference of approach, it would take a long time to come up with a solution

that both sides sort of could agree on, it's not an easy problem, there are deep division over how to fix those two problems, but there is an agreement they're both problems and you have the opportunity as you said, can you turn your arms wide opened and say, c'mon, let's roll up our sleeves and do this together or give the finger to a bunch of people and say our way or the highway. >> where are the democrats on the insurance companies? they were great on the banks. guess what? my atm machine works. my insurance company is constantlying a dpra rate isiin is -- aggravating me. >> mike, willie, it's a bad system. the fact that we spend more money per patient than any country in the world and our health care is the way it is, it's because we got all of these false mechanisms out there that are getting in the way of a more free market approach. >> on your point about medicare and medicaid, making that argument, there is a pretty

incredible report in politico this morning about a meeting earlier this week where mitch mcconnell took rob portman to task. when you were omb director with george w. bush, you were all about entitlement. where are you now? mitch mcconnell is using the argument which you are making to which portman said it's preposterous, are you taking medicaid away from 770,000 people in my state and not fixing the problem. >> and not fixing the problem and transferring at a time when the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. >> how long have we been hearing that. >> at a faster rate than ever before in our nation's history. this is a point, where the republicans say, we will cut a trillion dollars in benefits from the poorest america and give it to the wealthiest america. >> this is the president that will change washington. >> what a pop you list, the way to stand up to goldman sachs, mr. president, we're proud of

you, buddy, hey, you're a populist. >> okay. >> did you see "time" magazine. >> they're in this country -- -- -- -- >> willie can tell you the two things that were going on in 1987, this was right after, what did i do in '87? i won the masters. everybody remembers nicholas in '86. nobody remembers me winning the masters. what was so amazing i was sleep deprived because i was coming off, i opened up for u2 on the original joshua tour. i did 30 cities. they kicked me off, they were embarrassed. the crowd was cheering for me more than that i said, screw it, i'm going to go play augusta. >> you are still stunning my superficial. >> nothing makes a man feel better than making a fake cover about the pittsburgh about himself, lying every day and destroying the country. >> okay. enough about me. >> where were your hands in that

photo? >> he's covering his hands here because they're teency. i was talking about trump. >> donald trump was actually on the cover of "time" magazine 14 times. >> that wasn't enough, was it? exclamation point. still ahead, we will dig further into those polls, even republicans aren't liking what they're seeing. plus the few issue of "time" magazine tackles. >> it's in the ozone cover. >> the tiny hands, it tackles the numbers. >> what is she talking about? >> hundreds of billions slashed from medicaid, teency hands and senator rand paul will be our guest. >> teency hands. . >> we'll be right back. which you are you? be the you who doesn't cover your moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. be the you who shows up in that dress. who hugs a friend. who is done with treatments that don't give you clearer skin. be the you who controls your psoriasis with stelara® just 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses.

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. is naat republicans plan is unpopular even with republicans. the party in charge. 35% of republicans approve in

the npr merritt survey. 37% approve in the within pack poll. one in five republicans disapprove. enthusiasm is dropping. >> one out of three. >> even among his core supporters. the kaiser trucking poll seeing dips from last month. among all voters, 24% support the proposed cuts. 71% opposed. as for the president's handling of the health care issue, 29% approve, 63% disapprove. >> he's almost at 30%. >> now you see why i was doing this map yesterday. >> i'm only laughing the other option is declining. kristen, tell us about these numbers, what do you make of them? >> reporter: these numbers are not great. normally nowadays. >> there you go. >> reporter: it's so partisan, normally if you go to a group of

voters and say, republicans are trying to do x, y or z, people that consider themselves republicans will enstinctively say, well, i trust my own party to handle this issue. on this, there is not consensus about republican voters about what should be done, except, hey, you won election after election and said, you will repeal and replace obamacare. here's your shot. that's what makes the politics so fascinating. you have members on the far right that don't like this bill. this might be their one shot. this is something they promised for a long time, with many members having a lot of folks that we lie on medicaid. >> that i have to vocally say they have to oppose it. it doesn't go far enough to repeal obamacare. at the same time, knowing folks in the state rely on medicaid.

a lot of folks will be affected by this bill, potentially very negatively. so these numbers are really bad, but they haven't been able to rally republicans behind, hey, this is the thing that will repeal obamacare considering how many times they made that promise on the campaign trail and done pretty well in the ballot box having made that promise. >> senior mcconnell had to have some idea of what this process would be like given they walked in the house shortly before. it was something that polled in the teens as well. we went in with eyes wide opened. do you think at this point he actually believes he ask get this through? maybe he gets to the cbo tomorrow if he's lucky. when they come back sometime between the fourth of july and the august recess, they put it to the floor for a vote? do we get that far? >> reporter: i have to expect he expected a lot of members would sort of make noise they were unhappy with things, that they'd want to make changes, everybody wants to be able to go back to their home state and say i

fought for this thing that will give more fundsing to rural hospitals or i fought for this change that preserved coverage for x number of people in my state. so everybody in the senate thinks they're the most important member of the senate. the politics are there. a little different than you might find on the health side. i think if have you the margin of error losing two members before this thing falls apart, always meant the tight rope he had to walk was fwjs to be challenging. you can lose a couple of folks the moderates say i can't get there, i'm in a swing state, i can't do this. somebody like a senator heller. but you have to assume in the end where you will be able to get the rand pauls the ted cruz's, the mike lees on board to say do you want to be the guy that prevent us from repealing obamacare? it seems like there are enough people with enough reservations, nobody thinks they will be the only one. >> coming up on ""morning joe,""

rex tillerson may have hit tis breaking point a. new report says he unleashed on the white house. will it help him take the power pack from jared kushner, the real secretary of state in that's next on ""morning joe"?" .

the public hasn't we heard much from rex tillerson, but the trump teal reportedly did loudly. >> good. >> they say the secretary of state unleashed his anger at a white house staffer in charge of personnel with jared kushner and reempbs p reince priebus in the room. they say his pent up emotions exploded. he talked about the leaks of the white house and repeatedly choosing the nominees. he did choose a few good ones, but tarragon. a transition source says rex is a 65-year-old guy who worked his way up from the bottom at exxon and he chafes at the idea of taking reports from a political operative. he says jared kushner called his

outburst completely unprofessional and urged the secretary's chief of staff to find a solution. politico says the white house has been frustrated be tillerson's management style, even the president's top aidis sometimes have a tough time. >> that's just bs. it's total bs. and by the way, what rex tillerson did is not unprofessional. >> it's too late. >> no it's not too late. >> i hope not. >> what rex tillerson did was patriotic. >> and way overdue. >> and way overdue. this white house, because donald trump wants his son-in-law to be the defacto secretary of state. >> the guy with no experience. >> and anybody going in there knows that, he wants jared to be the defacto secretary of state. >> yeah. >> so they have cut rex tillerson off at the knees every single day. they don't let him put in qualified people in the state department. they're talking about slashing things by a third. >> they have been doing little events with ivanka. >> because they're thinking,

hey, we don't really need a secretary of state, which is basically what they said, jared will be running everything, himself, so they are now have gotten into a situation, they said it, i'll testify under oath they said it repeatedly, jared's going to be the defacto secretary of state. >> jared is in charge of the middle east peace negotiation. >> that from the president, himself. >> so what they are doing is they're actually slashing funding for the state department, they're not letting rex tillerson get his people in and it is causing an international crisis with foreign diplomats are not even calling the state department anymore, because they know they can't get answers there. they're having to call the nsa. rex tillerson has to do this every single day. this is a man of substance. this is a man who has done great things in his life. they're hand toughing him, because they want people that have never done anything before in government running the state

department. >> for sure, there are key ambassadorial posts unfield. there are career diplomats. state department diplomats. they don't have people to call back in the state department because at the desk level, assistant secretaries of state, many of them are missing, far eastern, middle eastern. the entire administration is a gap in the appointments. a good example. the uss fitzgerald in the south china sea, boom, crunch. no secretary of the navy. nah, no ambassador to japan. it's incredible what is going on in this administration in the work required to fill key diplomatic posts. rex tillerson is an accomplished 65-year-old guy who ran one of the world's largest companies andese been treated lately like a gs 12. >> donald trump didn't put a patsy in as secretary of state. he put one of the most important executives in the world as

secretary of state, a guy that run a company the way you run a private company. he i think is at his breaking point. i think the pullout point from the politico piece suggested it was about ego, he didn't want to take orders from a 38-year-old. to me, it's about a guy that wants to do his job and needs the cools to do his job and he's not been given the tools. he's not going to take it. >> coming up, senator rand palm says he and president trump may have come up with breakthroughs in the health care talks. we'll ask him what it is.

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>> i'm very concerned about the medicaid portion and what it would do to a state like mine. i'm not willing to go back home and say this program won't work for you. i didn't come here to hurt people. i came here to help them is there i have not spoken to mitch mcconnell. i we heard him say the democrats don't want to work with him.

that's not factual pr acknowledgment rat. i'm one that wants to work with my friends. i have been reaching out. wouldn't it be great if we had 30 ds. 30 rs? right now they need 25 zs and 25 rs. we can make this happen. >> both senators speaking with us last hour on "morning joe." joining us the republican senator rand paul of kentucky. senator, thank you very much for being with us. >> zboorl. >> so do you think -- there is not a lot of support for this bill. even appears within the republican party in some ways. do you think it's fixable? >> well, let's see. hmm, all the democrats hate it. and half the republican itses h it. >> that means 20 to 25% of the people like it. no, it's got to get better. i do have what i think could be a solution. you remember henry clay's compromise of 18th 50. it couldn't pass. he broke it into four pieces,

they passed them individual amy. i think if we split it into two pieces, we pass one more looks look repeal conservatives like. the other you load up with christmas ornaments, gifts, money, pile money on it that the democrats will vote for and some of the republicans will vote for. then i think both end up passing. it may not be completely good for the country. you at least get the repeal that way. >> so you repeal and what do have you in its place if you start we are peel and you wait to do the rest? >> what you do is things that the democrats won't do. you can repeal the taxes. you can repeal some of the regulations. i prefer all of them. you can also do some medicaid reform. >> that could be in a repeal bill. it will be a much narrower repeal. to the people that want billions in new spending the people who want to retain a lot of the obamacare spending. >> that could be put in another bill. there is another bill put forward, the s-chip bill.

it's a bill that typically all the democrats vote for and some republicans, load it up with all the goodies that everybody wants. so then the fiscal conservatives would sfwet the repeal and the fiscally less concerned would get all their spending. >> yeah. i'm looking at the date, june 29th, 2017. republicans are talking about this for how many years? and they've come up with a bill. the be ill that this president is pushing is just, it's ruinous. are you surprised at how little has gotten done given how big an issue this is for your party? >> well, i think the problem is that for years and years republicans said we were for repealing it, ripping it out root and branch. then we bought the to the discussion. we discovered that about a third of our caucus wants to keep large portions of obamacare so the bill we currently have before us, keeps the obamacare subsidies, keeps ten out of 12 of the obamacare regulations and actually preserves the medicaid

expansion forever. the left hates it. because they don't believe any of that. some on the right hate it because we see this too much big government in an era where every year we have a deficit of about $500 billion if not more and a $22 trillion total debt. so the concerns on the right and left side, with ten right and left hate something, you finally have the difficulty i think getting any popular support. >> senator palm, willie geist, good to see you, those gift itself and goodies and christmas ornaments you describe, we're talking medicaid expansion, spending for the opioid crisis with i obviously h which obviously affected your state. i know the onus to carry so much of that cost. it will get greater as we go forward. there are a lot of people who benefit from it. what do you say to them if that is rolled back over time? i'm talking about medicaid expansion, they're no longer covered, what happens to those

people? >> what i'd leak to do is expand the insurance market, expand the employment market. one of the things i have been advocating for. see, 20 million people were left without insurance under obamacare. nobody talks about. that 20 million people do not have insurance under obamacare. what i'm for is something that expands beyond obamacare. i'm for letting every individual in the market join a co-op or a buying group and they would be a part of a large group, they'd be protected against pre-existing conditions, they'd also be able to get a cheaper price. but this only works if you free up and get rid of the mandates and regulations, because you have to legalize inexpensive insurance. right now in america, obamacare made it illegal to buy inexpensive insurance, as a consequence, millions of people don't buy it. you got the death spiral of obamacare because you priced people out of the marketplace. >> do you think in principle and broadly speaking medicaid has been a good there inc. to the state of kentucky? >> i think what you have to do

is you have to decide what can you afford and have you to be honest about how you pay for it. so, for example, yes, there are people who definitely cannot help themselves to medicaid helps. do i want 50% of kentucky to be on medicaid or 5%? my preference would be to have 95% working and 5% on medicaid. i think we could afford that, but the dishonesty of obamacare was they put everybody on medicaid, they said it will be free, it's from heaven, the next will pay for it. we have a printing press up here the federal reserve so we borrow money to pay for medicaid expansion what we should do is say to kentucky and every other state, if you want to expand medicaid, you are welcome to. but you got to pay for it. then we would have a discussion f. kentucky, if we double our state physical tax to pay for medicaid, we might lose business and jobs to tennessee, because they have no income tax. >> that would be an honest debate. have you as to weigh the pros and cons of higher taxes versus higher spending. >> that would be honest

government and deliberatetive debate. >> i think everybody would like to see 95% of the people working instead of being on medicaid. but the reality is, they're not. there is unemployment, there is a lot in your state. >> we only have about 4.5 to 5% unemployment. we have institutional employment. we have to fix that. i who you would say we have differences between republicans and democrats on how we get there. >> right. >> as a republican, we believe less regulation, lower tax, smaller federal government leaves more money in the marketplace, um have more jobs. democrats want more debt, more taxes, more regulations, that's what the last election was about. they rejected hillary clinton because of that. >> sow feel confident. because there are people still working that need medicaid and benefit because of how little money they make. you feel confident if this were to become law and if there was medicaid roll back included in this bill, that the people who now enjoy coverage under medicaid would quickly and seamlessly be covered?

ner, people are worried in your state. they say, okay, you take that away from me, what happens next? is there a month, six months, a year? what happens to my coverage and my family? >> first of all, i don't support the current bill, won't vote for it unless it changes or gets better. what i would say what is falsely reported by a lot of people is medicaid is being taken away. medicaid expansion is never taken away. it's extended into perpetuity forever. what we do is we ask, after about i think seven years, or actually gradually over seven years, that the states begin to pay some of it. >> right. >> even after seven years, kentucky would only pay 30% of it. but most people in kentucky government, including the governor have said they probably can't afford to pay 30% of it, which means if they can't afford it and the federal government has a $500 bill deficit, maybe we need to reevaluate getting the marketplace to offer cheaper. >> there are 7 too billion or something like that pulled out of medicaid in this bill the cbo

has said? >> no, not really. because it's washington math. medicaid goes up like this. and under this bill, medicaid goes up like this. so it slows down the rate of zbroet of medicaid, but actually it's even worse than that, when you look at the curve, it's intla of an exponential curve without some controls. so pat toomey has been good at trying to get controls on the medicaid call. but it doesn't cut medicaid, it slows down the rate of zbroet. >> so there will not be fewer people covered by medicaid if this becomes law? i want to make sure i'm right on this. >> actually, i think what happens is, medicaid expansion never goes away, states are forced to pay for it? cbo may say states won't pay for it. so maybe less people will have medicaid. i think under the law, i don't believe it designs anybody on medicaid, medicaid. that's why i think the bill is exceedingly generous. so it's interesting, we live in such a polarized society, democrats can't see that at all. republicans are worried we're keeping obamacare and democrats

think it's absolutely zra conian. there have been -- draconian. there have been horts that this is a synthesis of obamacare and ideas, that's truly what it is. it keeps a lot of obamacare. it's not going to work t. death spiral of obama care with continue. we will dump insurance subsidies on it. i cannot vote to give money to an industry that makes $15 billion a year, that's crazy to give taxpayer mo into the insurance companies. >> there is less spending on medicaid. it does roll back overtime. >> it's less of an increase, there is never less money in medicaid, less of an increase in pled cade each year. >> so senator rand palm, thank you very much. let's talk more about this issue. it sort of under lies the entire health care debate. joining us now, "time" magazine bureau chief, he edited the piece, it looks at why the republican plan for obamacare

scarce g op governors and is ped cade a part of this, michael? >> it's a huge part of it. it's impact what is the senator says there. when you say you are bending the cost curve, because hem hem goes up something like 7, 8% a year in costs. even if you continue to increase, you ends up cutting the services delivered. it's like giving somebody a quarter to buy a quart of milk. it would have worked in 1965. if you give them a quarter now, they will not get a whole quart of milk. what rand paul is saying there, that the medicaid expansion is anchored in. what he's talking about is, some of the tax benefits given under obamacare will be given to people with lower incomes. >> that continues. but there is a massive can ut that goes to the states and the federal government is basically say anything this bill, to states, will you have to deal is with it. will you have to decide in the out years whether you increase taxes on your residents at state taxes or you cut other spending. >> that means cutting roads and

education and the other things that estates spend their money on. it is a massive cut on medicaid. you have republican governors coming out now incredibly concerned about this, in states that matter a thought to republicans. not just in presidential election years like new hampshire, but in 2018 and when elections happen next year. >> mark halperin. >> the republican governors have any influence over congressional leaders or the white house? i hear them making public statements. are they on the phone or influencing the shape of this in a direct way? >> yeah, i think you have dean heller in nevada, rod portman in ohio are talking to their governors, so there are direct connections there among some of the senator was are holding out. and i think the moderate resistance you've seen is coming a large part by the state's lobbying their own home state senators. so there is resistance and mcdone p conneconnell has to de

mcdonnell has to deal is with it. >> news on that first, president trump turned his focus to immigration yesterday, meeting in the white house cabinet room with families who have lost loved ones to crimes committed by undocumented imzbrants. >> tomorrow the house will vote on the no sanctuary for criminals act, which will cut federal grant money to cities that shield dangerous criminal aliens from being turned over to federal law enforcement. the house will also vote on indicat indica kate's law, named for kate steinly. this will enhance those who repeatedly enter the country illegally. we lost the people that you love because our government refused to enforce our nation's immigration laws. for years the pundits, journalists, politicians in

washington refused to hear your voices, but on election day 2016, your voices were we heard, all across the entire world. >> michael the piece you edited in the new issue says that trump's policy on deportation puts all immigrants at risk. explain it. >> well, what the president does recast immigration as a public safety issue. he talks about ms-13 odespicable and violent gang and the other crimes that have been committed. the statistics that the department of homeland security has put out, though, show that the people theing deported and arrested right now are not the majority criminals of that variety. now 76% have some criminal record, but a significant portion of those are not violent criminals. these are people arrested for driving without a license in some cases, because they can't get a license in the state they live in, or other misdemeanors in their path. they're counted as criminal.

you have a third that are non-criminals and you have a lot of people being detained now for, you know, overstaying visas for declining to follow judge's orders after their asylum application has been put forward and the head of isis said very clearly that no one should feel safe. no undocumented immigrant should feel safe right now. there is a sales pitch you hear the president saying and the reality of what's happening in the country. >> how does the reality dprifr the obama administration? >> the biggest difference is the obama administration actually gave enormous deference, even to people with misdemeanor conviction. there were people who would go into the court system. they were undocumented. they have a misdemeanor conviction and i.c.e. would say check in every year, we'll go over your file, you can continue to stay in the country for the time being. that's about 60 or 70,000 people who fall into that category. now most of those people checking in, a large portion

have been checking in with i.c.e. find themselves detained within they go if. these are people who the obama administration said you can stay in the country despite your undocumented status, despite other issues, now the trump administration is deporting them. >> all right. the new issue of "time" is out now, thank you very much. >> thank you. up next, president trump is already raising money for his 2020 re-election campaign. but will he see the same jam packed rallies from last year? the economist is check income with some of its core supporters. keep it right here on ""morning joe." [ music playing ] . we, the tv loving people, roooooaaar!!! want our whole house to be filled with entertainment. easy boy! but we don't want annual contracts and hardware. you scoundrel! we just want to stream live tv. and we want it for 10 dollars a month. (batman:raspy) wow. i'd like that in my house. it's a very big house. yeah, mine too. look at us. just two bros with sick houses. high five.

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at cancer treatment centers of america. learn more at cancercenter.com/experts president trump is kicking off his 2020 rees lex campaign. last night he held an event in d.c. expected to raise about $20 million for the republican christmas national committee and the campaign. members of the press were barred. sara huckabee sanders said yesterday the white house perez pool kwoub allowed inside to hear the president's rashes to donors but later that decision was reversed citing confusion with the rnc and logistical concerns. i believe yid's press briefing was only audio, right?

>> mm-hmm. >> that's just -- it's really bad. anyhow, i mean, mark at some point don't you think the national press association ought to do something about this? >> i think they are. some people are saying boycott the briefing. i think we have to press for answers and for answers on behalf of the public. >> yeah. clearly constantly the president calling the media fake news and good news organizations fake news and then this game. clearly something bigger is happening. president trump may be slumping in national polls, but does he have his core support? and a it appears no scandal will shake that core support? that's a focus of the new special report from "the economist." joining us is the author, the "the economist's" u.s. editor, john prudhoe. he spoke with some of the president's supporters first hand. what did you find? was it surprising? >> i was a bit surprised because like you guys i follow the "daily news," the headlines on

cable, and if you've been doing that in the past few months of the trump presidency, you would have seen a special counsel investigating what's happening in the white house, you would have seen the firing of james comey, a disastrous health care bill that nobody seems to like and you might conclude from this that president trump is in real trouble. but if you look at his approval ratings, they're down a bit but they hardly moved since about a week after the inauguration. most people i found going around for a couple weeks talking to voters, you know, kind of low-level republican party bozs, mayors of small towns, they're not paying a whole load of attention. they have a vig sense that trump is on their side and they're prepared to cut him a lot of slack. >> what are they really excited about? that this president has done? what do they talk about they're so happy he's in office because a, b, and c has happened? what is that? >> the one thing i did get a lot coming back at me was the supreme court. i think that's the one tangible achievement -- >> barring that one thing, what else?

>> no, but when you try and push people on that, they say he's only just gotten there, the media has given him a tough time, congress isn't helping him. he's a good guy. they need to kind of let him get on with this and thifl it's kind of way too early to come to a judgment on him. >> got it. >> john, did you get the sense going around to four or five states and talking to people about two things -- one is that the average american lives on a different clock than we do in the media. you just alluded to it. he just got there, give him some time, see what happens. the other aspect of it is that he is basically they feel shaking up washington, which they hate more than anything. they hate washington more they they hate any specific policy this trump administration has proposed. >> i agree. even though now he is the establishment, he continues to run as if he were the anti-establishment.

hard to be more of establishment than being president. the thing that struck me most is about 20% of americans if you look at the survey data, paid really close attention to the news. for most people out there, they're too busy. they have other things going on. if you look at the american national election survey, people who actually voted in the presidential election and you ask them to put the parties on a left/right spectrum where on the left you have more services and on the right less spending, 30% of people who voted in 2016 can't reliably replace republicans or democrats on that spectrum, the most fundamental question about politics and what you guys were talking about earlier with the senate health care bill. what is the role of government. so for most people out there, you know, they're not looking at the kind of minutia of what the cbo's numbers say on medication. they're making political decisions in a much more kind of gut level, much more about who people like them support, who they need to support. more about identity than policy.

>> donald trump say the famous line in the campaign where he could stand in the middle of 5th avenue and shoot somebody and his people would still be with him. there is a kernel of truth in that. some people genuinely believe the russia thing is a nothing burger. they think we're pursuing something that has nothing to do with him, maybe there was some meddling but why put it on donald trump, they're not proving anything. is your sense there's anything he could go to lose the support of that core 36%, 38%? >> that was the question i tried to answer going around. what could he do that would be beyond the pale for these folks? what can he get away with in negative terms. i was surprised how much latitude he has. a lot of republican voters frankly not that ideological, not kind of rand paul kefbs. and he has the latitude to take them i think pretty much into

any direction he wants. he hasn't actually -- one of the surprises of the presidency is he hasn't take an whole load of advantages. he's governed so far to the extent he's governed as a conventional republican. i think they give him wide latitude. >> i'm not sure, i think it's when their lives are impacted in a positive or a negative way, which is, you know, something that would have a visceral reaction. and nothing has really changed? >> no. that's right. but if you look at the survey data, some really weird stuff happens in politics. right after the 2016 election, if you polled trump voters they suddenly thought their personal finances were in much better shape than they did the previous week. there's some way in which voting in america is kind of bound up with identity, the kind of team you support, how people like you feel about their place in the world that is more powerful, i think, than the kind of policy stuff that people like me fortunately spend their lives looking at. >> john, thank you very much.

fascinat fascinatesing. that does it for us this morning on "morning joe." stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks so much, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. live, where else, in our nation's capital, washington, d.c., and we're talking about the ban because it is back. the white house releasing new guidelines overnight barring certain people from entering the country and it starts just hours from now. meanwhile, let's make a deal, and i'm not talking about a game show. republicans trying to find a health care compromise by as early as tomorrow. >> we could have a big surprise with a great health care package. >> if not, will they work with democrats to fix not replace? >> if we don't reach by friday -- >> plus one-on-one. the president's chief economic adviser joins me this morning. gary cohen on health care, jobs, and what's next for american energy