in new york. . trump's back for round two. let's play "hardball." ♪ >> good evening, i'm steve kornacki in for chris matthews. well, donald trump is not done. yesterday, he derailed washington's focus on health care by firing off crude tweets about the iq and looks of "morning joe" host mik mika bryzinski. trump also signaled a new direction on the health care fight citing with a number of

conservatives focusing just on obamacare then dealing with the question of how to go about replacing it. notably that approach contradicts what the president said in the past. he urged previously congress to simultaneously repeal and replace the health care plan. we'll have more on that reversal coming up. we begin, though, with the big twitter fight. today mika and joe returned to their show and offered rebuttals to what he said yesterday. >> i'm fine. my family brought me up really tough. this is absolutely nothing. but i think for me, personally. but i am very concerned as to what this, once again, reveals about the president of the united states. >> he had calls and texts and e-mails, we're okay. the country's not. this is one of the most dangerous times in recent american history and we have a president who is attacking a cable news host because she

dared make a joke about a "time" magazine cover. >> it's not just joe and mika hitting back. more and more republican versus come out with a simple message for the president, put the phone down. >> it's a tweet that was reckless. it was juvenile and it was again a distraction from the standpoint of the legislative activity. he needs to put the twitter account away. >> that's a tweet not even becoming of a city councilman. >> i know it feels better to do that. he united to rise above that. quite frankly, that tweet was below the office of the presidency. >> i thought it was disappointing as a female who has been in elected office for many years. i have been subjected to this for many years and it's not okay. >> now, despite the growing criticism from those in his own party, the president still refusing to back down on this. nbc's kristen welker joins me now live from the white house. kristen, we know the official

white house position on this has been, hey, if the president is hit, he's going to hit back. he's going to hit back ten times as hard. let me ask you, though, about the conversations you had with the people inside the white house behind the scenes. are they saying something different? what are they saying about this, when it's not on the record? >> reporter: i think there is an acknowledgment that there is a frustration with the fact that this is stepping on the president's own message. but more importantly, his own agenda, steve. if you look at the briefing yesterday, it was on camera. as you know, those are becoming less and less frequent. but the briefing was largely dominated by questions about this topic, about why he felt the need to engage with mika and joe, skabl news hosts. why he felt it was okay to make this very personal attack. of course, a lot of folks within the administration want to be working on things like health care, like tax reform. yesterday, we started out really focused on north korea. they announced a few round of

sanctions that were aimed at north korea. steve, that was initially going to be the if cuss of my day, instead, it turns into reporting on the reaction to that tweet. what you just played. all the u all of the reaction on capitol hill. but i think the concern comes when you start to ask the question, what does it mean practically speaking for his agenda? does it mean that fewer republican lawmakers will be willing to try to work with him on health care to try to get over some of the challenges and concerns that they have when it comes to passing the senate bill, for example? and i think that's when this goes from being a controversy to something that really gets in the way of what he promised his base he would aecom plush and the people here within the white house want to accomplish. the white house publicly digging in. you are right, behind the scenes, there is concern yet again he stepped on his own message all due to twitter. >> kristen, thank you for that. a number of the president's associates have struggled to

respond on his attack. trump's transportation secretary elaine chow, also the wife of senate majority leader mitch mcconnell. she was asked about that tweet. rer response the president is new to politics. >> how do you respond to something like that when the president is making comments like that. >> well, the president is a citizen as well and he says what he wants to say. now, he's not in politics and so he's not used to the usual restraints that people in public service have. and so, you know, he's new. he will adapt and he'll learn. >> and so i assume you do not agree with a competent like that, though, you can tell us if you do agree. >> no, i don't agree. >> meanwhile, trump adviser kellyanne conway walked a delicate line defending the president's right to respond, though not necessarily defending his message, itself. >> the president normally does not draw first blood. he is a counter contra as he said on the cane trail. >> do you endorse what the

president sent out if those tweets? >> i endorse the president's right to fight back when he is being mercifully attack and the air waves are filled with raw sewage about him and his fitness for office. >> what i ask is do you endorse the president's attacks, apparently you do? >> no, i didn't say i endorse his attacks. i never said that, george. what i said is i endorse his ability to fight back when he is attacked. >> all right. for more now, joined by julie reed right here on msnbc and a republican strategist. thanks to both of you for being with us. julie, looking, elaine chow, a member of his cabinet trying to come up with a justification there. kellyanne conway trying to defend him, it raises a simple question to me this is a president especially with his tweet. we seen it a million other times, a million other ways, he breaks the rules of politics that has existed for every other politician of his party and the

democratic party. it makes it him possible, if you are an allie of his, it makes it him possible to speak for him, his allies are still trying to play by those rules. how can you justify conduct that breaks those rules? >> it's interesting to watch all these republicans treating a 71-year-old man like a 12-year-old who got in a fight at ale 62, a parent to refuse their kid is wrong. they're dancing around the core issue of whether what he said is beneath the dignitary of the office. the republicans are coming out with furrow brows and i can't believe a president is speaking this way. donald trump has been speaking this way, he has always been this guy the same people that voted and endorsed the ""access hollywood"" guy, the guy that said these incredibly derogatory things even about his daughter on the howard stern show, he has been publicly vulgar and venal his adult life. all of these people burn their

brows look shocked this person would behave this way. it is completely ingenuine, they want to be qui tote take people's health care. >> let me ask you about that, you we heard elaine chow say new to politics, he'll learn, he'll mature. i we heard versions of. that i have variations at every twist and twurn in the 2016 campaign. i remember at one point, donald trump said, hey, you don't think i'll be presidential right now, i promise you i'll be the most presidential if i get elected. it isn't going to change, is it? >> you know what, i don't think it's going to. what is really sad, not only does it put the white house staff on alert because he sends out these tweets and the whole news day is spent on that, but he pits republican pundits, people like me, we have to come on and make a decision are we going to defend it? are we going to let it get by. it puts republicans in a very strange position because although we agree with donald

trump politically as a republican on the republican platform, the problem of it is, how do we say that when he sends out a tweet because personally we want to leave him in the dust politically we agree with -- >> let me ask you, from this perspective then, i've we heard the argument and i completely understand it that, hey, you got a republican president, republican senate, republican house. there is a chance here for the republican party to get things done. donald trump, if he would just tweet about policy, if he'd stop picking these fight, it would get things done. can contrast\clued after six months, can you look at donald trump and say he actually cares about that agenda? >> you know what, we hope he cares about it. but here's what i'd love to say, so many republicans from the pundits to the media to people, you know, congressional, people in congress, people in the senate have said this. mr. president, put down your

twitter. or if you are going to use twitter, at least say things that are productive. what i don't understand is, he won. he's there. mika and joe, he's in the industry. i've got to tell you guys, he was in the tv industry. he knows what happens. he knows that you know political shows they analyze and they talk about presidents, fox news did it about obama. so this is no big surprise. why he's letting this get under his skin is bizarre, i'd like to evoke something michelle obama said. when they go low, we go high. so i'm asking him, he needs to go high, really high. this is unbelievable. >> isn't the answer because michelle obama is a mature adult, barack obama is a adult. donald trump you want a maserati, you all were willing to endorse and elect a man that is the guy. he's always been this buy the. the agenda is paul ryan and mitch mcconnell and donald trump

doesn't necessarily know what's in the health care bill. he just wants something popular he can go to rallies at so more people can fill that dark void inside of him. he needs praise, every day, there are stories about him going around to his staff today, i know it wasn't presidential, wasn't that tweet amaze something what is he going to say? they have to say it's great. this is a person that everybody told joe was fundamentally unfit to be president. surprise, he is. >> they need to focus on the issues, ignore it, ignore the twitter war. working together. that's all we have. >> it's only ability health care, what do you think his beliefs are about health care? >> you know, it's hard to tell, i'll be honest with you. it's hard to tell because every time there is a message out of the white house, sometimes he sends a tweet that contradicts it. and i think that's what republican pundits and a lot of republican people on television have to deal with. we have so seifer through that

and find the real meaning. on the bottom line, the american people, we are the ones getting hurt by this. everyone needs to cross that aisle and put politics aside, put twitter aside and cross that aisle and work together. we can't get anything done. >> let me ask the question this way, joy, you are saying all the things that happens during the campaign and he won anyway. i think he looks at it people that don't like this conduct from the president of the united states, he looks at this i'm imagining his psychology is like this i went through an entire presidential campaign, i crossed a thousand red lines, people said you can't cross and win. i was at a 35% personal favorable rate on the polls on election day. i was told i was going to get blown out. i got accepted now. how can you look at me and say you don't know what you are doing, you have crossed another red line, why am i supposed to listen to you now? >> i it would be right, if he

said it. donald trump understands the base of the republican party. it's about 36 to 38% of the country. he understands those people very well. he understands them much better than paul ryan or mitch mcconnell. those people don't want to lose their health care either. donald trump promised them they wouldn't. he understands them. i think we have to stop sort of rocking the voter in a cradle. these people approve of it. there are people in this country who are fine with donald trump being this way. they voted for it. they affirmatively like it. they want him to keep doing what he's doing. the idea that republicans will change to paul ryan. >> from a democrat standpoint, that's what i'm curious about. he's broken so many norms for lack of a better term here in our political system. it causes such alarm on the left and among democrats. i wonder, that an effective message to use against him that he's broken the norms or is that not going to change what we saw happen on election day? >> we may be in a post-presidential period, reset

what a president is. he's much more of a showman than he is somebody interested in legislating a policy like barack obama was or who carries the image around the world, he's more embarrassing than he is bearing himself like a president. so if that is what the presidency is, that 38% is hard and fit. i think they kind of are. then what democrats need to do is do math and figure out, how do i get rest of those voters, the other 62% of american voters to get up off the couch and vote for something better, let me present them something better. trying to beg the 38% to change their minds about a guy they've known as long as they have been watching "the apprentice" seems like the most incredible way ever. go find enough people around the 52%. there are more of them, do better at politics, learn lou to run an election, learn how to win in wisconsin, learn how to win in michigan like you used to be able to to. find people who don't like this, who don't approve of this, who are embarrassed by this and get them to vote.

>> thanks to both of you for joining us. a lively discussion, appreciate that. coming up, today is the day mitch mcconnell had planned to have that republican health care plan passed through the senate. president trump threw a wrench into the whole thing calling for an outright repeal of obamacare, to think about the replacement later, this is a contradiction of repeal and replace at the same time. for many republicans it may be a fawn starter. plus, trump's fraud wants names, birth dates, party registration, tonight state officials from both parties are refussing to comply. next week trump meets with president vladimir putin at the g-20 summit already. moscow thinks putin can when major concessions from trump as those two leaders meet. finally the requested hardball" roundtable tells me three things i don't know. this is requested hardball" where the action is.

well the "wall street journal" has a new report of potential collusion during the 2016 presidential election. they report that peter smith, he's a long-time republican consultant. he did not have a formal position with the trump campaign, but they report that peter smith attempted to independently acquire hacked e-mails that he believed might have been stolen from hillary clinton's private server. now, in doing so, according to article, mr. smith said he and his colleagues found five groups of hackers who claimed to possess mrs. clinton's delete e-mails, including two groups he determined were russians. he did not work for trump's campaign. he confirms e-mails win by mr. smith and one of his associates show that his small group considered mr. flynn and his consulting company, flynn intel group, to be allies. we are joined by a reporter who wrote that story. okay. walk us through this, because

you got a couple things here i want to try to pin down here t. name michael flynn comes up. the idea of a republican political consultant not formally a part of trump campaign and the idea of stolen e-mails and contacts with the russians. what exactly do you know here? >> we know smith launched this over labor day weekend officially, before that the campaign was entering the home stretch. he theorized that hackers had obtained access to secretary clinton's private e-mail server and likely pulled e-mails she claimed she delete. he believed they would reveal information about malfeasance of the clinton foundation and her role in the benghazi attacks. he had no everyday of where that would be the case, he suspected she was deleting those to cover up something ne narrious. >> that gets linked with the trump campaign. mr. smith was telling people he was talking to mike flynn about what he was doing, the quest to

find these supposedly hacked e-mails and e-mails to his associates, mr. smith wrote he wanted to make introductions to people he was trying to recruit to mike flynn's son, who was then running the flynn intel group, mike flynn's consulting company. >> that company was called out if one ema ill to a recruitment e-mail as being among a small group of people that were working with peter smith in this endeavor. so he's really painting a par trait of mike flynn as somebody who know what is he is up to as peter smith tells the story said flynn was supportive of it, essentially. >> he talked to a group of several hackers that had potentially gotten some e-mails, two of those groups are russians. do you know, are those the same russian hackers we talk about when we talk about meddleth in the u.s. election? >> it's a great question. we don't know that. when smith set out to do the work. he told me he believed they would eventually make contact with hackers, as he put it,

around the russian government. it's important to note that he didn't believe russia had hacked the dnc to interfere with the election. he had a fairly complex view of these things. he believed it was plausible they had hacked hillary clinton. what he was interested at is getting those e-mails. he was prepared to negotiate with whoever had them. he set up a process to see if they were authentically hers or made to look like hers. >> it's a fascinating report. if you haven't read it yet. appreciate it. >> still ahead, president trump upendss the health care negotiations by offering republicans a brand-new idea. maybe should just repeal obamacare now, worry about the replacement later. is that idea going to get any republicans on board? we'll be right back. it's a good thing we brought the tablets huh?

yeah, and i can watch the game with directv now. oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens.

>> welcome back to "hardball" as senate majority leader mitch mcconnell is trying to cobble a health care bill, donald trump has thrown a curve ball, tweeting, if republican senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately repeal and replace at a later date. he isn't alone, he has two allies, kentucky senator rand paul and senator benefit sass. both support that idea. here's what sass who seemed to inspire the president's tweet told reporters in nebraska. >> i want repeal and i want replace, if we requecan do it together. if we fail at that, we should separate the two. we made a promise and should keep our promises. >> according to ayios, that got less than a positive reception. they said it was fought going to

happen. the other said the chances for it happening was zero. i am joined by ben white, a reporter with politico and sean sullivan a political reporter with the washington post. let me start with you. tell me if your sources are telling us anything different than we quoted. it's probably a non-starter, just repeal it now, then we get the next few months, if that's a non-starter, do we know why donald trump is introducing this idea right now? >> well, it really is a non-starter, beyond rand palm, beyond ben sass, there is no appetite among republican senators to do this. if you listen to what mitch mcconnell said earlier this week, what president trump is saying is happening next, is the opposite of mcconnell, mcconnell says if this works apart, we will work with democrats and find compromise on what trump and rand paul and saasa saying is the opposite. they're saying, this doesn't work, we should repeal this and worry about replacement afterwards.

no, my reporting suggests there is no appetite beyond paul and sass really to get this thing done, you are right, it raises a question of why president trump would do this at this time. >> so ben, you know the financial world the business world, i think the political logic here from somebody like sass the way he laid it out is if you repeal it now and you delay it by a year, i think what he's thinking is that gives you leverage with the democrats. because a year from now the democrats will say we can't let it go altogether, it's an advantage, i'm not sure it will work out that way at all. from the standpoint of the business world the health industry, the markets, all of those things, if that were to happen, one-sixth of the economy, basically for a year, it's put in little box how would the business world respond to that? >> it would respond negatively, health insurance companies don't want that massive uncertainty around what happens in a giant piece of the economy. so i think talking about it in these kind of terms is a little ridiculous. it's not going to happen.

the votes are fought there to do a full repeal and then maybe get replaced. they're not there. mcconnell doesn't want to do it. ryan doesn't want to have the house vote again t. big problem for the business community is what does this mean for tax reform? if they will do a repeal vote and a replace vote, they take out the two budget resolutions that were to repeal and replace and a big tax reform bill. if both were used. one for repeal, one for replace. >> that would be massively negative for the business community and wall street. i think there are plenty of white house advisers keen to move on to tax reform who don't want to do it this way. i think it's not going to happen, it will be terrible for both the health insurance uncertainty and wall street and markets more broadly if there is not going to be tax reform. >> sean if this is a non-starter, you raise the possibly of partisans getting democrats involved. maybe you can explain this, the republican position as far as i can understand is obamacare is on the brink of collapse and that it's threatened freedom in

this country and the democratic position is that the republican plan will literally result in people being killed. how can you reconcile those, possibly? >> it may actually be impossible. i think part of what mitch mcconnell is doing by bringing this up, he's trying to pressure his own republican senators, he's trying to go to them and say look if we can't get the votes we need to pass our bill, you know what, i'm going to work across the aisle. i think for a lot of republicans, they don't like working with democrats. democrats said, look, we'll work with you, under one condition, you need to stop your demand that you are going to repeal this law. once you do that, then we'll work with you, i don't think we're anywhere near that. i think some republicans want to repeal key parts and find replacements to that. it's hard to imagine chuck schumer and mitch mcconnell sitting across the table negotiating some sort of bupartisan deem. even a narrow one.

right now it is about pressuring republicans, he's trying to make a picture of what twhuhat would look like. >> after seven years of repeople, it's hard to say, hey, let's leave it alone after all this. who knows, we have come farther down this road than people ever thought we would. thank you both for joining us. enjoy the holiday weekend. on the other side, president trump's investigatority commission is seeking the voting information about nearly every voter in country. in some states, republicans and democrats are pushing back. this is "hardball" where the action is.

>> the terrifying last moments of a small plane's flight caught on video. it crashed yesterday on a busy freeway after they lost power to the right engine. the pilot and passengers complied. at last report they were in critical condition. and nevada today becomes the nation's state to allow recreational use for marijuana. it is expected to raise $60 million over the first two years of sale. that's what's happening. now back to "hardball." >> police say a disaster opened fire at a hospital in the bronx killing one person and wounding six others before taking his own life. >> that gunman was a former employee of the hospital, police saying he hid an ar-15 style

rifle under his wife's white lab coat a. small plane crashed and burst into flames on the busy 405 in southern california, clipping a passing vehicle t. pilot reported losing an engine shortly after takeoff before that crash. now back to "hardball." ♪ >> well some back to requested hartball. nearly half of the states have rejected a request from president trump's voter fraud commission asking them to provide information on their registered voters. the vice chairman has kansas secretary, he asked for the names of the voters, their address, dates of birth, political part registration as well as the last four digits of social security numbers and their voting histories n. an interview with msnbc he defended

the request. >> this is publicly available information t. commission is only requesting what any person on the street in california can walk into a county office ap get. why not look at the data? put the cards on the table and show the american public how significant the issue is. it's just fact finding. >> but state officials from both parties are already voicing their concern. >> there's no reason to provide this data. again, we don't know why they want this, there's information publicly available. we operate excellent election systems here in rhode island. it's fair, it's accurate. there is no evidence of widespread fraud, so you know, we're not going to comply with this. i as i say i'm alarmed they are even asking for it. >> by and large, i would be very hesitant to send out voter data that's available here in arkansas into a national database. >> here's how the deputy press secretary sarah huckabee sanders

responded today. >> i think that's mostly a political stunt. we're asking, this is a commission that's asking for publicly available data and the fact that these governors wouldn't be willing to turn that over, this is something that's been a part of the commission's discussion, which has bisparnt support and none of the members raise any numbers whatsoever. >> kansas is not handing over all of the data. kansas will not be giving the social security information, it's not public available information they say. i am joined by advancement co-director judith brown diaz, thank you for joining us. so kansas says they got an issue with the social security numbers the last four digits. they're not going to hand that over. you herd kobach saying basically what i am looking for is public information. can you find out who is registered, what party, when the last election was they voted in.

so is that true? and if that's true, what's the objection here? >> well, i mean, not so fast. right. even in his own state, he's the person who put oout the letter requesting this information. even in his own state he fixed out he was asking for too much because the last four digits of social security number is not available. so here's the problem is that, you know, we have to look at this in a larger context. we are talking about people who are inputing. this is a setup for voter suppression. who are the characters in this movie that we're watching? chris kobach is the architect of the playbook for republicans on voter suppression. then you've got jeff sessions who said that the voting rights act was an intrusion on states rights and he separately sent out a request to the states. then you have a former doj person who wants to make it harder to vote for everyone across the country, part of

this, you know, effort to suppress the vote that is really about making it harder for people. >> let's talk specifically here then, so you do not trust the principles that are involved here. they're requesting this information. if they get this information, again, a lot of these states are saying no right now f. they get this information, specifically then, what are you fearing they do with it? >> well, i think what it will be used is a platform for them to try and go after not only the voting rights, that the national voter registration act, which is the law that actually governs who gets on the rolls and who doesn't get on the rolls, really what they're after is trying to figure out a way to put in place a lou to make it harder to get on the rolls and easier to get kicked off the rolls. >> that they are going to also use it to really harass people. we know that these are folks who are trying to go after the mythical voter fraud. but time and again the republican party has tried to prove voter fraud and they have come up short in every instance,

what they have done in other instances, if they want to talk about voter integrity and making sure our elections run well, then what shea should be doing is investing in our systems and making sure more people can participate easily. >> we should point out it is bipartisan, you have the republicans and democrats out there saying they don't plan to share this information with trump and his commission. thanks for joining us, appreciate it. >> thank you. up next the hardball roundtable. we got a new round of polling that shows americans don't want that republican health care plan. so what's in store for lawmakers as they head toem home to meet their twichts t. roundtable will tell me three things that i don't know. you are watching "hardball."

>> all right. welcome back to "hardball" while you are making plans for your holiday weekend, maybe you will hit the road.

guess what, congress has already hit the road, they will be off for ten days, they have reached this recess at a place that mitch mcconnell did not want to be. remember the goal for republicans is by the time today arrived. by the tim that recess began they would have passed through the senate that health care, obamacare replacement plan. obviously, it didn't happen the future is unseven. here's what's on republican minds, the senators as they go home, the polling on this thing has been absolutely atrocious. we have 24 polls out in the last few days. some version of the question, what do you think of the senate health care bill? what do you think of the republican health care plan? you can see here, all these polls have one thing in common. at least twice, sometimes more than three times, close to four times opposition as report. so republican senators on the fence. this has got to weigh on them, am i stirring up something i cannot afford?

why is it on the table? why wouldn't republicans walk away in the face of numbers like this? you got to keep in mind, they think this is a more complicated one, keep this in mind from our most "wall street journal" poll, a more bake question here what should republicans do right now? should they still be trying even if you don't like the plan they have? should they be trying to repeal and replace obamacare? should they give that up? the divide is right down the middle on that question. what republicans think, they think there is a lot of dissatisfaction with obamacare. they think there is a lot of room for a different plan to emerge. maybe it's not the one quite they have right now. they don't necessarily think those poll numbers i showed you a minute ago are indicative of where this would end up. >> that at least seems to be the political calculation they v. they are going home to their constituents and what they hear there may have a lot to do with this. we say amid those poll numbers, lawmakers going back, they will hold town halls, some have

started, including one in the bayou bill cassidy in baton rouge today, take a look at what happened. >> i'll tell you what's rude, kicking 22 million people off their health care in this country who you know you cannot afford it. you worked at the hospital for a long time. you know what people are like at their lowest. so to step on their necks by kicking them off their healthcare at this point, that's cruel, sir. i think what you need to do as a louisianaen is go back to washington, d.c. and stand up for the people here saying we need our health care. >> i am doing my best to make sure that we continue coverage, care for those with pre-existing conditions and lower premiums. >> that is my commitment and that is what i'm working for. >> all right, let's bring in the

round ball table. beth, let me start with you. >> that scene we showed down there in louisiana. there's cassidy on the fence on this thing, republican versus to have his vote if they're going to pass this. this was mitch mcconnell's spear, this is why he wanted to get it done. they go home, they have an earful on this, it can't help the odds of passage. >> i have been to a number of town halls already with house members and senators, the message is the same over and over, it's don't do this. you can't possibly do this don't take away my health care. there was that period of time where republicans were accusing those who came to the town halls of being parade protesters. what you find when you interview them, some sure, some may be involved, individuals, some such thing, they're local constituents. you get people who say they have never been to a political meeting before. everyone. they might vote. they have never been activists. suddenly this issue is

motivating them. they're getting a world of hurt at home. you showed the polls, steve, politicians are ntt business of passing major legislation that is at 12% popularity. this thing is on death's door at this point. >> if are you mitch mcconnell, master legislator, right, no one knows the senate like mitch mcconnell, that's what we hear. how do you get out of this jam the idea is out there, do you try to cut a deal with democrats? is that possible? do you try to appease the moderates? do you lose conservatives? go after the conservatives and lose the moderates? is from a way to thread the need until. >> the same way obama got it passed in the first place, you cut side deals, buy some votes off, do kickback provisions for all the states. that's how you get it top. that how these bills kind of pass in the end. the problem they're having the reason it's at 12% is the flipside, they're negotiating the whole thing in secret. if you don't pass legislation

out in the open, if you don't build the case for it. if you don't have good answers to these hard questions, if you can't get out there and defend it and be happ happy about your bill, it's one sided. we're seeing a one sided debate. one side is quiet. everyone else is piling on top of them. >> i think back seven, eight years ago, the health care debate, the obamacare debate, it was hard to litigate the specifics, in a lot of ways that's why they got beat so badly in 2010. if you ask any democrat a part of that process the goal was very clear. they were trying to get as close to universal coverage as we have ever been. you could easily articulate that. this is in the a clean repeal. this is a sort of a replacement. i think it's hard to look at this and narrow it down. here is what we are trying to do. >> right. when they get specific, that's when they get into trouble. nick's point is very good, they're being secretive about

it. they're not explaining what it is they are going to do. within they come out and say we will tweak some of the regulations, we will roll this back. when you ask them what they're talking about, you realize they will not cover the same health procedures as before, you are taking away some healthcare, they will roll back some regulation which is a tax cut. when people see an understand what is in this legislation, it is not good, it is not popular, that's why you are seeing what is described in these town hall meetings. >> if it's at death's doorstep politically, what is the next move? could they go back and say, guys, you gave us the house the senate the white house, we couldn't get it done. could they do some kind of compromise with democrats? where would they go? >> there has been a discussion that perhaps they will make a deal with democrats. if you get the party together they can negotiate and they both give a little and get something back, trump all he wants to do is clear a win and say, hey, it all worked out, it was because

of me. >> that seems like a possible way to go. it may not work in the house is the problem. the senate is the much more generally bipartisan environment t. house may not want to deal with anything. >> it's like a game of whack a moment at the arcade when you are a kid, you have this one here, it comes up over here. up next, trump will finally come face-to-face with vladimir putin at the g-20 summit, according to a new report the russian president thinks he will out maneuver trump. this is "hardball" where the action is.

>> all right, a quick programing note. this is one to circle on the colin star, this coming monday, july 3rd, chris matthews will host a special edition of "hardball" calling it 20s years of trump. over the last two decade, chris interviewed trump more than a dozen times. monday's show will look back at those conversations, wise conversations from trump's starts on monica lewinsky, in that scandal, his early flirtations for running for president. 20 years of trump, this monday, 7:00 p.m. eastern. corner miss it.

zblmplgs all right. we are back with the "hardball" roundtable. the white house confirmed yesterday president trump and russian president vladimir putin will meet for the first time at next week's g-20 summit in germany. meanwhile, european official versus expressed concerns about this meeting, telling the daily

beast moscow believes its exspy leader vladimir putin can extract major concessions from president trump. we got the details here, is this going to be a public meeting or one of those things on the side we hear about later. bottom line, do you think donald trump? he's a president of a country that imposed sanctions on vladimir putin and russia for what it did in our presidential elections last year. do you think this will come up next year? >> half the country believes he's in cahoot with the guy he's meeting. i can't think of a more important stage or meeting for the president than this one. essentially his old administration, his white house is under investigation, for potential inclusion with russian intelligence. vladimir putin spent a huge amount of time no institute a fair democracy. is the president going to push back, stand firm on the sanctions or is he going to follow his own foreign policy

here which is try to get put on the fight isis? >> quickly, that is the big question here, who does trump think his audience here the skeptics here who say he's in cahoots with putin or is he going for a different audience here? that will be the question. >> right. also if he acts presidential and doesn't address some of the issues that have been raised about the interference and tries to get at the policy issues regarding isis, if he treats this as a normal meeting and doesn't become very careful about the stage craft of it, he will add fuel for the fire for democrats and independents. >> that's another thing to mark your calendars for, next week the g-20. meanwhile the roundtable is staying with us. these people will tell me something i don't know. you are watching "hardball." it's a good thing we brought the tablets huh?

yeah, and i can watch the game with directv now. oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens.

>> all right. we're back with a "hardball" roundtable, tell me something i don't know. >> today is the last day of june, june 30th. donald trump has broken with the tradition that president obama set upping a only ining every single year of his presidency. he ran, trump ran as a president who was going to be more sympathetic and has not acknowledged that. >> in honor of july 4th, my thing is independence day is julie july 2nd, which is the day the can'tal congress had a vote to declare independence, july 4th is the day they approved the draft language. >> can we still barbecue on july 4th? >> those days, maybe the third, in between. >> after donald trump attacked "morning joe" on twitter, he did 12 tweets about policy, number

13, was about ""morning joe" '80s again, so he had discipline again. >> did somebody else have something to do with it? thanks to all. enjoy the holiday weekend. >> that is "hardball" thanks for being with us. the rachel maddow show begins right now. >> keep your eyes opened into the holiday weekend for in this business we inartfully call a news dump. i know it sounds kind of gross, it's supposed to sound kind of gross. friday night since time and memorial has always been a great time to release to the public information that you do not want the public to pay attention to that's for the obvious reason, on the weekends, people are not as plugged in. weekends as general have been seen by politicians, public physicals, corporation as a very convenient resuppository for dunk embarrassing news or