the green light. that means go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. morning glory, america. i'm hugh hewitt. you normally hear me on the radio network from 6:00 to 9:00 a.m. on weekend i'm here on msnbc. the convulsions in great brit n britain. now the donald trump administration. dysfunction at state department. on thursday, politico published a story between secretary of state rex tillerson and the head of the white house personnel office. stuns senior staff looked on.

the tensions between the former exxonmobil ceo and johnny destefano. joining me is the author of the story, alex eisenstat and white house correspondent for the daily beast. this has been driving discussion since president trump took office. welcome to you both. alex, your story. tell us who was there and when it happened and what it was about. >> sure. this was a meeting that happened last week. it was in the white house. you had secretary of state rex tillerson there. you had johnny destefano. oversees white house hiring. you had jared kushner there. you had reince priebus there. tillerson exploded. he yelled at destefano over the hiring issues.

tensions over hiring. he believed destefano had been taking over control. this is tension that has been going on for months with the state department and white house. it is one of the reasons why a lot of the state department is not staffed up. they cannot decide who to fill the roles. back and forth with the state department and white house. what happened after the screaming match between tillerson and destefano. jared kushner who is at the meeting pulled aside one of tillerson's aides and said the secretary of state cannot act that way. we need to move forward and find a better solution moving forward to make sure it doesn't happen again. >> my reporting after alex's story came out. it was a screaming patmatch in oval office outside the west wing. is this typical? is this norm? is this a one off? >> i think tillerson in particular is like trump. both very type a personalities. tillerson, of course, a long and

storied career at exxonmobil. used to picking his staff. trump has taken heavy hands when it comes to personnel selection in his cabinet agencies. i think you will get chafing there. he is not the only one that the problem has arisen. i think that really comes from the top. the style that trump has taken in micro managing has upset a lot of people. i think tillerson more than most just because of his background in business and being that sort of alpha personality. you will see more tension. >> if you look back at the last few republican secretaries of state. condoleezza rice, colin powell. all know d.c. rex tillerson, not a day in government, alex. he has one appointment. john jay sullivan.

respected brian hook is the director of policy and planning or sp they call it over there among the state department. where are all of the appointments? you cannot run a state department that way. >> that's a good question. we are six months into the situation almost. yet you have all of these gaps in the hiring and it really paints a picture of chaos that's enveloped this agency. look, it clearly is not what rex tillerson is used to being part of. he is used to be part of more well run big businesses. this is sort of turning out to be the chaotic mess. you sort of wonder what does this mean for him and his future? how long does he want to do this and it raises some questions about tillerson's future. >> i talked with chuck todd about this on "meet the press" daily on friday. is there a rexit coming?

some agencies have trouble staffing up. this is uniquely dysfunctional. apparently tillerson is going to appoint the ambassadors and the secretary of state. is he the boss of trump and destefano? did they cut that deal? >> i don't know the deal has been made. the final decision does rest with the president. i think trump has taken full advantage of the authority that has been given to him. the problem it goes back to election day and you had chris christie leading a transition team with a stable of officials lined up and three days later he is replaced by mike pence and destefano comes on inauguration day. it took a while to ramp this process up. when you add pressure coming

from the top eschelon of the white house, you have the fringe web sites in front of the president talking about potential fires and destefano was the talk of the web sites. tension will arrive. >> i don't know mr. destefano. i heard very good things about him and bad things. leaks are pouring out of the white house. you both have great sources. are there kabals of destefano? he is part of team priebus or what do you hear of the opp? >> he has been a thorn in the side of america first base bannon type crowd. they consider him with his background in speaker boehner's office and campaign committees. he is a creature of establishment. to the extent hiring decisions

are seen as not being in line with that sort of red meat trump approach that he tout on the campaign trail. a lot of supporters thinks that is a problem with reince priebus and the team he brought on. you know, he is doing the best job he can under the circumstances. you know, it expresses or microcosm of the larger issue in the white house. >> the same day you had a story come out. politico had a piece on the demor demor demoralization. cancelling an entire class of foreign officers. is this a destefano or priebus problem or rex tillerson problem? >> when one wonders in it is all of the above. you have the swirling mix of factors. you have a lot of divisions present in the white house now

that are trying to manifest into terms of challenges of hiring. disagreements of loyalists in the job or washington establishment types. there is a fight playing out not just in state, but also at state as well as other agencies. that is impacting moral and you have questions about rex tillerson's leadership style and how he is managing things. particularly he has a chief of staff and she is seen as a controversial figure at the state department. a lot of people criticize her for cutting off access to rex tillerson. some people think he lacks accessibili accessibility. >> does he make it to labor day? if he goes, who replaces him? i am beginning to hear it is a matter of time before he leaves. who replaces him if he leaves? >> i'm not well versed enough in

republican foreign policy to say who would replace him. i think you need to be skeptical about talk of high levels moving out of the administration. we heard the same with sean spicer and reince priebus. there are tensions here. you never know when they could be smoothed over. >> people say august could be a month for shakeups. we had so many conversations of shake ups to this point. i'll believe it when i see it. >> i saw a "new york time" story. i think bob corker can satisfy the conservatives. you can't run a government this way. thank you for coming in. always a pleasure. thank you for helping me kick off the program. coming up, the weekend news cycle continues. when i come back, united kingdom is reeling from three horrible acts of terrorism. revenge violence in the london

muslim community. horrific fire in a high-rise and a huge surprise election. the second in two years. two british born journalists who spend most of the time in this beltway come here next to join me next on msnbc. rogress. to not just accept what you see, but imagine something new. at invisalign®, we use the most advanced teeth straightening technology to help you find the next amazing version of yourself. it's time to unleash your secret weapon. it's there, right under your nose. get to your best smile up to 50% faster. visit invisalign.com to get started today. tais really quite simple.est it comes in the mail, you pull out the tube and you spit in it, which is something southern girls are taught you're not supposed to do. you seal it and send it back and then you wait for your results. it's that simple.

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welcome back. i'm hugh hewitt. as i noted before the break, great britain has been absorbing shock after shock the past three months. two an ak n attacks on iconic landmarks and attacks on children at a concert. and followed by the horrific grenfell fire.

following the general election that left the theresa may government. joining me to focus for a few minutes on our ally in the special leadership are thomas rogan at the washington examiner and nick wolf. thank you for joining me. great to have two london born experts in washington, d.c. nick, you were in london. is it fair to say your country is shaken? >> it is one where you wake up every morning and think what could possibly have happened next. this is all mixed in with the snap general election and it feels so long ago that the referendum happened and brexit began this week. it is chaos. it is exhausting. >> there was a period of time after 9/11 where this country basically had been concussed and

it lasted a while. is great britain in that place right now? >> i think not in the same way. the terrorist attacks have almost taken second or third row to the politics and especially grenfell tower. grenfell tower has shaken the establishment in britain. especially the right wing parties in britain made their names and boris johnson on attacking things like health and safety culture. it feels like grenfell tower finally has put an end to that idea because there were health and safety regulations removed. some may have prevented this catastrophe. it stands as a symbol in west london. if you drive past it, you can see it. it is by the two major arteries

to get out of london to the west. this is the blackened or broken tooth in a face. awfully stark. as a reminder of the tragedy, that is the one that has stake even. not to take away from the horror of the terrorist attacks. grenfell tower really made the changes. >> tom, i remember the first few weeks of the administration when he was getting his sea legs. prime minister theresa may appeared at his side. gave him the best day and now she is reeling. it a seat at the security counsel with t council with the. >> i think they formed the effective coalition governing agreement now. stability in that sense. there is a lot as nicky points out with the momentum on the left is very real.

jeremy coburn pushing for a general election. big protests later today in london. probably going on right now. there is an instability over the horizon. but president trump can't do for theresa may did for him. president trump is not popular at all in the uk. i think as we get into the issues like grenfell tower and looking forward to what it means for the united states, but causing president trump popularity because of theresa may apparent weakness. it makes it harder for her to come and support him. emmanuel macron talking he may join with president trump if there is another chemical weapons attack. >> there was also a canary in the coal mine moment a few days

ago on the dispute with uk over the diego garcia where the european union votes as a bloc when one of the member states votes. they voted against the uk and against the u.s. against the military base. they lost the vote by a long way and most of the eu states abstained. that case is ongoing. it is not clear if a lot of the states did that vote as attack partly on the u.s. as protest against the trump administration foreign policy. certainly and especially among the eu 27 it was very much a taste of what to phrase the pro brexit movement of taking back

control. it is a taste of what it means. >> g20 is coming up. tom, trump is going with a week in theresa may. resurgent europe and questions s about whether or not there is an alliance. in my first segments, we talked about this. there is a need for other people to go along. it is not clear he is talking on behalf of the president when he speaks. how badly is the western alliance at this point? >> it is vulnerable. you see president putin especially playing with that at the g20 next week. it is very real. i did a piece of g20 in hamburg this week. president trump did not have a hotel until recently. he is stake in a guest house now. merkel will try to make the

casey cas case i am the leader. trump is not reliable. trump is invited to bastille day the following week. there are tensions there. >> we don't have an ambassador in germany. we will see if that happens or not this week. not having a house is emblematic in the different way of grenfell tower being emblematic. that is a state department function. >> if you cannot fill the positions, you cannot influence policy. those are the nuts and bolts abroad. >> so, nicky woolf, i won't try to explain it. it is a vote of confidence. they support the queen's speech. for the american audience, it matters who runs great britain. if theresa may or is it sdadavi

davis or boris johnson? who rectifies that torn party? >> the conservatives see the general election as the catastrophic failure for the conservative party. on the other hand, there is not a huge amount of talent on the conservative front bench who a lot confidence to take over. boris johnson is a chaotic figure. he is -- >> populist. it's our age. >> he is popular in some areas. but because of his support for brexit, i think the conservative party realizes -- in scotland has made surprising gains. they can kiss all of those good-bye if boris johnson is prime minister. if there are any two pro brexit

leader. it is a delicate balance especially for scotland. especially torrey seats and larger cities don't want to pro brexit a leader. theresa may has gbegun to be known for the hard brexit approach. and in the labour party, they sacked the front bench mps over a brexit about themselves. people forget the problem with jeremy corbin is he was very ambiguo ambiguous. >> last one. hamburg and g20. is he really talking to merkel or if president trump gets hit with a wave of pro putin stories. what does putin do at the gathering? >> he will talk to both. what he will try to do with president trump is and with

angela merkel. merkel knows the game better. to separate the united states from the european union more and more. that is the russian interest. i expect you see putin throwing a bone to trump that will be like a trojan horse. the aleppo deal with the obama administration. and maybe something with ukraine, actually. the germans are skeptical more so than president trump. it is interesting. by far, the most interesting g20. >> who lasts longer? may or tillerson? >> i think tillerson. >> i think may. >> thank you both. thomas rogan and nicky woolf. thank you for the great conversation. i'll be right back. ♪

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good morning. i'm thomas roberts at msnbc world headquarters in new york. following breaking news in arkansas. 8:30 in the east. take a look at this. [ gunshots ] >> just getting the video in of what happened overnight. a moment somebody opening fire in a nightclub in little rock. police confirm 17 people shot. no motive is released, but it is not terror related. no arrests have been made. to nevada. sales of recreational marijuana have begun with people buying pot after midnight as the silver

state is the fifth in the nation to allow the sale of marijuana. the state's 10% tax rate is expected to raise millions in the next two years. the ntsb investigating a crash on the busy l.a. highway. the crash caught on cell phone video. the cessna crashing yesterday moments after the pilot lost power to the right engine. the pilot and passenger were pulled out alive and in critical condition. the first day of the holiday weekend could be stormy in the interior northeast. we'll talk about the weather forecast for you, but begin with fallout from the senate republicans plan to repeal and replace the aca. four of the republican senators opposing the bill are target of the ad campaign pac committee which backed elizabeth warren. here is one that will run on msnbc and other media outlets in

dean heller's home state of nevada starting today. >> when i hear that president trump and senate republicans are trying to cut her medicaid, i just want to cry. i can't afford her care if the bill passes. without it, my daughter could die from seizures. look at her face. tell me senator heller, what am i supposed to do? >> meanwhile, president trump is calling on senate to pass two immigration related bills. passed by the house this week. here is part of the president's weekly address this morning. >> this legislation presents a simple choice. either vote to save and protect american lives or vote to shield and comfort criminal aliens who threaten innocent lives. and they've been shielded too long. >> new today, at least two dozen states, including ones led by republicans, are pushing back against the trump administration's commission investigating voter fraud.

chris cobach spoke with my colleague ali velshi why they are requesting voter data and social security numbers. >> they are requesting what you can request walking into the office and get. why not look at the data. it is publicly available. show the american public how significant the issue is. it is fact finding. >> so there is a lot going on in politics. joining me now is sarah westwood. you have a new article out of "trump's tweets unnerve republican allies." we have more with republicans and democrats in policy and issues of trying to govern. we look at many controversies of the president launched via twitter, what do you make of these inside the republican tent? >> trump's tweets came at an

inopportune time. not that there is ever a time to go after tv hosts. this is the week where republicans were trying to build support. they were looking to the white house to provide some air cover to push the legislation. now republicans are in the familiar position of having to distance from the inflammatory comments coming from the president at the same time they are trying to latch on to trump's health care legislation. his tweets this week threw some unnecessary chaos into the situation that was already very complex for senate republicans. >> meanwhile, because of the week mcconnell had, the president tweeted yesterday and this is a different approach. if republican senators are unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately repeal and replace at a later date. what do you make of this switcheroo from the president and is it the strategy of leader

mcconnell? he wanted the bill to fail in the way it is right now. >> absolutely not the approach that senate leadership is taking and that's precisely why that tweet was problematic for senate republicans. approach of repealing the bill cleanly and moving on to replace obamacare down the line was something totally different is favored by the most conservative members of congress. it might empower those conservative holdouts like rand paul who endorsed the president's tweet to hold out longer from the better care rela reconciliation act. if this bill on the table collapses, they can count on support from the president, they can repeal and replace strategy he once criticized. it doesn't do anything to help leadership get the compromised bill through the senate. that is why you didn't see a lot of republicans speak out

publicly on trump's tweet. >> we get the beginning of july kicking off with a long holiday weekend and august recess comes up. july will fly by. we have ten gop senators with the letter to mcconnell asking for the august recess to be canceled which would make more allowances on the calendar for items like healthcare reform or tax reform a funding bill. what is the likelihood of the august recess canceled is? >> it would be a pretty dramatic step for congressional republicans. obviously they are running out of time to pass major legislative items. keep in mind next year is an election year. it is always more difficult to pass big items of legislation when members are worried about running for re-election. they probably recognize if they don't get something done by the end of this year and if they don't get health care done by the august recess, there is a very good chance it will never get done at all.

after 2018, republicans don't know they will hold both houses of congress and it will be that much more difficult to get any of president trump's agenda items done. i think that you are seeing lawmakers take a more serious look at working during the august recess than we have seen before. that is because we realize the clock is running out on the agen agenda. >> let's talk about the committee. we have kris kobach and the vice chair of the commission investigating fraud. isn't sharing the kansas voters social security numbers. that is after that detail in a letter had been sent out nationwide. he told the kansas city star that social security numbers are not publicly available. we are not asking for it if it is not publicly available. there is a lot of controversy, sarah, surrounding the voter

fraud data commission. is there enough proof to have the basis for the commission doing the investigative work it is doing? >> we don't have a great sense of what this commission is actually looking at. the scope of the investigation and conclusions it is working toward. we just don't have a great sense of what that is. that's what has made a lot of secretaries of state which are not sure. they don't know how it will be used if they hand it over. some request is a little overblown as kobach said he is asking for information obtained through public records request. he is just explaining he sent a form letter to all states, but different states have different laws about what information can be obtained. he is not asking states to forfeit data that would not otherwise be obtained through a

public records request. the issue is causing unease. >> and the foundation of what it was supposed to do is a mystery. you make a good point. sarah, thank you for making time for us. >> thank you. a challenge to the president's travel ban and what it can mean now the policy is in effect and coming up in our next hour former republican congress member pete hoekstra. are the tweets getting in the way of white house support and the agenda?

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ban until a final ruling is made on it. hours after it took effect on thursday, hawaii's attorney general issued a legal challenge saying the government interpretation is too restrictive. joining me now is cecilia wong with the aclu. there seems to be chaos with the ban and now hawaii with the legal action with the state department definition of who qualifies of who has a bona fide relationship with someone in the u.s. how do they implement this without hiccups like we have seen in hawaii. >> that is right, tom. we have seen continued chaos from the trump administration in regard to the ban and executive order. it started on january 27th when the president first issued the order. it continued until this week. the president went in and said after the supreme court issued the order letting a narrow piece of the ban go into effect.

they blew right past the boundaries the court set and explicitly excluded people from the united states based on family relationships that the supreme court said would not subject people to the ban. we also have a problem with the government saying that refugee resettlement will be stopped. contrary to the words of the supreme court order. that's why hawaii and our plaintiffs have gone back to court. >> we know there are issues with the state department and rex tillerson complaining about not having posts filled and now the onus is on them to define this. what are you hearing what they are trying to figure out in terms of following the court order, but also the administration's agenda when it comes to the ban. >> clearly the chaos is continued months into the administration with the state department. on thursday, the state department leaked a cable to counselor offices around the world that again narrowed the category of people who could come into the united states beyond what the supreme court said. >> we had a graphic.

william, if you can put that graphic back up. there we have it. >> that's right. so what has happened now is the administration overnight immediately after first leaking the information then putting out official statements through the department of homeland security, overnight changed two of the provisions that had been in the guidance. it is clear that the state department and homeland security are not on the same page as the white house. they are continuing to scapegoat muslims and disparage them through the order and flouting the supreme court. >> the other issue i want to talk about cecillia, the documents aimed at undocumented immigration. harboring undocumented immigrants by withholding federal grants. now we have the senate. going ahead if they pass this, what are you hearing if sanctuary cities, this bill from the house through the senate,

would handle it if passed? >> every law enforcement agency association in the country opposed these two house bills. international association of chiefs of police and sheriffs association which is nationwide network. mayors and national league of cities. opposed the house bill because it makes all of us less safe. they would have local police agencies ignore violent crimes and ignore the job they are supposed to do to protect communities and lock up based on i.c.e. agent. they held detaining people based on the document issued by an i.c.e. agent violates the fourth amendment. we had citizens racially profiled and held for days or sometimes more than a month. so we have a real problem on our hands. the house bill is dangerous. it will force police agencies to

violate the fourth amendment. it will cause racial profiling. that's why i think you see all of the police chiefs and sheriffs around the united states saying we don't want any of it. >> will see where it goes. cecillia wang, thank you. repeal and then replace it? the president's back-up plan should the senate not pass the health care bill. next, the supporters and what they say about repeal and replace. ♪ hey, bud. you need some help? no, i'm good. come on, moe. i have to go. (vo) we always trusted our subaru impreza would be there for him someday. ok. that's it. (vo) we just didn't think someday would come so fast. see ya later, moe. (vo) introducing the subaru impreza. the longest-lasting vehicle in its class. more than a car, it's a subaru. a trip back to the dthe doctor's office, mean

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the president has been attacked mercilessly on personal accounts by members of the program. i think he's been clear when he's attacked he's going to hit back. >> i endorse the president's right to fight back when he's being mercilessly attacked and when the air waves are filled with raw sewage and his fitness for office. >> today the president act d like a human being and pushed

back. >> we have the president's team standing up for his right to defend himself. i want to bring in joe watkins, former white house aide to george h.w. bush and rick tyler, political analyst. good morning to you. do they have a point on this? does the president have to just stand there and take it? doesn't he have the right to defend himself? >> anyone has the right to defend themselves for sure. when we are talking about the presidency, we are talking about a higher standard. i want my president to operate under a higher standard where he doesn't hit back against cable news hosts. this sets a terrible precedent. there is going to be world leaders people who don't have america's best interests in mind when they go about different actions. if north korea does something

the president doesn't like personally will he hit back ten times harder without thinking it through? i wake up nervous because his temperament, he doesn't have the temperament to be commander in chief. he demonstrates it over and over again when he publically shames women. that's what he does when he feels attacked and his masculinity has been attacked. he can't do that as president. >> for the gop there is agenda work, policy work that needs to get done. having a president that's great at distractions would be great if they could get behind them. how tough is it for members hedging on health care to see the president and the agenda of the white house as something they can support. >> it's difficult. for one thing the president said he was going to repeal and replace obamacare at the same

time. now he's suddenly changed strategies, probably with house gop. if this is the strategy, this distraction, it is a failed strategy. nothing on capitol hill is getting done in a significant way. the biggest waste of time is for donald trump to be concerned with how he's portrayed in the media. he should be using the bully pulpit not to answer this. as it is now, he doesn't have public support. he has very low approval rating. he doesn't have political capital to wield on capitol hill so nothing will get done. >> when you think about that and having issues on the hill, maybe some folks running out of patience, do republicans get to a point where they recognize

trump as a party of one and not the leader of the gop party let alone leader of the free world? >> you saw, of course, the republican senators, members along with democrats responded to what president trump had to say about mika brzezinski and "morning joe". democrats and republicans feel compelled to talk about how the tweets don't help. at the same time for president trump he sees it as maybe his most popular -- his most powerful weapon. with a single tweet he can change the course of the discussion for the day even if it doesn't help policy. he can change the course of discussion for a day. he can distract from discussion that may not be going in the direction he wants it to go. it's a powerful tool for him. he can use the power of the tweet to really control the conversation. >> right. >> it's not helping right now from a policy standpoint.

>> the power of that. the campaign's chief pollster told the washington post yesterday the more the media attacks him the more it is a self-fulfilling prophecy for the trump supporters who believe the media treat him unfairly. is this just a win for the president when it comes to the public feud, the media issue? >> i think if your goal is to make sure your base of about 30% of americans sticks with you it's clear to this point they are going to stick with him. let's be clear. we knew who donald trump was when he was elected. the "access hollywood" tape for me was a moment in which people could say what side are they on. are they on the side of supporting and treating women with respect or you're not. if you voted for donald trump, i'm not saying you're a sexist or misogynist but you knew donald trump had these views. it shouldn't be surprising he's

continuing this on n the white house. i don't think it's a win for donald trump. it demonstrates again and again that he doesn't have the seriousness and testimony pmper be commander in chief. nothing has happened in terms of a large scale event where he has to spring into action and be the serious leader we want and need. these tweets are eventually going to catch up with him. he's essentially admitting to things that could give him legal trouble down the road. they will be used as evidence against him later on. >> it's evidence against all of us as americans. it's part of the historical record when it comes to what's coming through twitter on this. >> unfortunately. >> the tweet that just came out about health care where the president said if republican senators are unable to pass what they are working on now they should immediately repeal and then replace at a later date. is it hard to pin this president

down on policy if he's so fair weather to seeking a win? >> i'm suspicious if the president knows any details about the senate policy, the health care policy and what's in the bill. i think it was illustrated by the fact he celebrated the passing of the house bill and then called it mean. he had a different opinion about it between those events. it's too late to repeal and replace later. the problem is it will be disruptive to the market and since the insurance -- sends the insurance companies all the wrong signals. insurance companies price on risk and uncertain. the higher the uncertainty and risk the higher the premiums. what the congress and president are doing is inserting so much uncertainty that it's going to drive the prices up or drive more people out of the market which will drive the prices up. they've got to figure this out. the only way to do it now is to

be able to work with democrats to get some deal. the relationship is so toxic. both sides used health care as a political custody gel and the american people are paying the price. >> thank you all. i appreciate your time. we have run out of it. coming up at the top of the hour, stick with me. your name, address, part of your social security number is part of the information the voter commission is demanding. will some states agree to give up the info? that's after this. when i first started working with capital one, my dad called them up and asked for "the jennifer garner card" which is such a dad thing to do. after he gave his name the woman from capital one said "mr. garner, are you related to jennifer?" kind of joking with him. and my dad was so proud to tell her, "as a matter of fact, she is my middle daughter". so now dad has the venture card, he's earning his double miles, and he made a friend at the company. can i say it? go ahead! what's in your wallet? nice job dad.

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