go! oh, yeah. start saying yes to your company's best ideas. we're gonna hit our launch date! (scream) thank you! goodbye! let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open. good morning and welcome to "politics nation." i'm down in new orleans for the annual essence music festival. and we will be talking shortly with the mayor of the whole city, mayor mitch landrieu, about many things including him being one of the leading figures against president trump's policies. but first as we continue to see republicans are still stuck in this health care bill crisis and

negotiations over health care, moderates and conservatives still battling on which sides they're on on various parts of it. we're going to look at it from another angle that has not been too often discussed. and that is how this health care bill and health care generally may lead to further racial inequality. yes, it does, argues van kirk ii. he is joining me now as well as yamish alcinder, a reporter with the "new york times" and an msnbc contributor. yamish, let me go to you first. give us the latest on where we are with the health care debate.

we understand that over the last 24 hours that majority leader mcconnell has said he's trying to put all the pieces together to get to 50. not there yet. even some on the right in the senate saying he should cancel the august recess. where are we at in this health care debate? >> essentially republicans are still scrambling to put together a bill that will satisfy both factions of the republican party. the moderates who are concerned about cuts it to medicaid and planned parenthood. there are some people who have already started talking about repealing obamacare altogether. the republican who said let's get rid of the bill completely. the president has tweeted he would be okay with that. you see republicans getting

desperate to be able to have some sort of a win to be able to hand to their president. most republicans, i don't think would be able to vote for a bill that completely repeals obamacare without replacing it because that would cause so many people, something like 32 million people, to lose health care instant ly which would hur the republican party especially when it comes to the midterms. >> now let me go to you, mr. newkirk. i looked at your article with some great interest when you raised the issue that health care has always been about civil rights and spending my life in civil rights really caught -- i was really captured by the argument the title the fight for health care is essentially a fight about civil rights. explain what you mean because obviously a the lot of people will say here they are talking just race.

what is the basis of you making that claim? >> well, i start with the fact that if you look at any system -- can you think of any system that is less compatible with jim crow 20th century america than universal health care? as the world moved in the 20th century towards universal health care as modern medicine advanced, america wasn't ready for that. it's proven by the records, black doctors and how segregated medicine in america came about. i looked it at the civil rights movement. they moved and pushed for universal health care before any other medical associations in america were thinking about it. and they pushed -- >> now why is that? let me push you a little there. >> okay. >> you detail that with historic references in the article. why is it in your opinion civil rights advocates push for universal health care before anyone in the nation? was it because of the dire needs

and neglect of health care in african-american and other communities of color or was it they were progressive or both? >> i think it was both. i think what they saw, and you see with these interracial groups down in freedom summer, you saw you had to be able to provide health care for black people in the south for any of these others to matter. what does it matter if you have education if people die when they're 50. i had think it's because they were progressive as well. they saw the means and the way forward for america was pushing back against conservative structures that said, okay, we're going to go with the markets here. i think those two things are pretty intertwine d in american racial history. >> and when you deal with the fact, yamiche, you're dealing with segregation as well where blacks just a generation, a generation and a half ago, could not use certain health

facilities, clearly the only way to equalize that was to give universal health care and at the same time break down the jim co-laco- crow laws had a stopped my mother from alabama going to the local public hospital. >> the idea awed system, a health care system that said we're separate but equal was still the law of the land. you look and realize they could not provide that. they could not provide both equal and separate institutions. even in modern day america when you look at one of the things i would talk to the obama administration about right when his term was ending, people were asking what did obama really do for african-americans. valerie jarrett and others would point to is the aca, the idea there were millions of african-americans that didn't have health insurance that then got on it. so it was a bill that while it wasn't targeting only blacks it

benefited blacks overwhelmingly because so many people did not have health care. so many people could not afford health care. i think i should say when you think about the polarization of what became obamacare, the fact we call it obamacarey care, there are people who obviously have real policy issues with barack obama who didn't like the politics of the man. and then some who didn't like this was a law pass ed by a blak man telling you you had to buy health insurance. and the idea that's part of that, that's layered in people's response to obamacare is something we should not, and i don't think ever will, ignore. >> no, well, when you look at the fact, mr. newkirk, blacks disproportionately did not have health care and a lot of it based on the fact we disproportionately had to deal with generations of jim crow, then dealing with the fact we

were doubly unemployed and therefore the income level affected the cost of health care. when you look at all of that combined what president obama did with the support of many of us who were attacked for being close to him was huge in terms of what he did for aft african-americans. i always considered it just people trying to get their own personal agendas out because you couldn't seriously say that didn't impact in a significant way black america. but let me ask you about this particular health care debate now. how can that bring either continued progress or be regressive towards blacks if we see the senate pass at least looking at the first draft of that bill because doesn't that dial back a lot of the opening of the ability to get health care coverage for a lot of

people of color that for the first time had that under the affordable care act? >> right. when i talked to public health officials almost to a person they described the affordable care act, obamacare, for racial equality. coverage is one thing. coverage is important. and one of the things that's been lacking. we know from all of our studies if our experience with a couple years of obamacare now the coverage is not quite equal access and that coverage didn't apply to. it didn't go to all the states that decided not to expand medicaid and actually the number one predictor of the state's decision not to expand medicaid is its percentage of the population. we look at that and i think obamacare department even quite get us to the level where coverage is not an issue. and then you move down the road and people think we have obamacare as a scaffold. and you can talk about now people being able to access physicians, doctors, hospitals, for the first time in their lives and then i think people are looking 10, 15 years down the road, maybe even a generation down the road, and

saying, okay, now these people who were born under jim crow can finally go to the hospital. they can finally build healthy lifestyles and a life of health that's passed on generationally to their children, their grandchildren, and maybe a generation or two with obamacare, with more policies that expand coverage universally they'll be able to see their kids have health care. but instead of going that direction the senate is going the other way. >> yamiche, that is what i think a lot of people don't understand, and i brought it up here in my address at essence. i know a thousand ministers are marching on this. you really have people that never had in our communities access to health care at all and that went from generation to generation hoping for the best,

wishing nothing happens catastrophic because they had no coverage. they had no access. for the first time have it now. and this senate bill, this debate, something that was already passed in the house threatens all of that. i mean, this is a state of emergency in many african-american and latino communities, and i don't think anyone's talking about the dire consequences in communities that will really not be able to sustain health for their families. it doesn't get more serious than that. >> well, frankly, that is part of the reason why the republicans are having such a problem passing this bill. when you look at the states that expanded medicaid, ohio and other places where people got health care where white familiar will lis are looking at their kids who are drug addicted and saying this medicaid is how i'm paying for my child's drug treatment, this is how i'm pay ing for my grandmother's nursing home bills. as much as this is an african-american issue, senators looking at their states and constituents saying i can't just

take away health care for millions of people in my state. that's why the republicans are having such a big problem with it. i will go back to the fact i interviewed maxine waters this week, and she was telling me about the fact she grew up with no health care. that when she had a toothache, she was tying a string to her tooth and slamming a door having to pull out her teeth that way, all these old remedies of things she would do. she remembers rubbing down had her grandmother with something like bengay because she had no health care. that's going to be taken away from people. the republicans ran on promising that they were going to take away people's health care and donald trump was elected on the promise that they were going to take away health care. in some ways as much as people are surprised and it's going to be upsetting, the republican voters looked at the republicans and said i want to you take away my health care. >> well, i think that a lot of republican voters didn't think

that they were talk iing about m going to take away your health quar, and a lot of them when it's coming home that's why these town halls are becoming so fiery. they thought they were talking about somebody else's health care not theirs. no, you're going to have to lose yours, too, or you're going to have to join the fight to maintain it. yamiche alcindor, thank you, and vann newkirk ii, we're glad to have had you this morning. coming up, will there ever be peace between black people and the police? we're going to talk about in chicago and other reaction. we'll talk about that right after the break here on "politics nation."

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welcome back. this week in chicago three police officers were indicted by a grand jury over the death of a black teenager. dash cam video from two years ago recorded the moment laquan mcdonald was walking away from police and then shot 16 times. the officer who pulled the trigger is currently on trial for murder. but the three officers indicted face questions of a cover-up that include conspiracy, official misconduct, and obstruction of justice. there's a new book that deals with police brutality called "chokehold: policing black men." it argues there has never been peace between black people and the police.

paul butler wrote the book and he joins me now. he's a professor at the georgetown university law center, a former federal prosecutor, and now msnbc contributor. paul, let me start with -- i looked and read most of your book on my way down to new orleans, a very good book. now you grew up in law, aspiring legal career that took you in the prosecutor's office. i grew up in the civil rights movement where policing had been in our involvement. we approached proech thissish followthrough two sides but end up in the same place and that is there is this seemingly unending battle between how we get police and the black community and even other communities of color on the same page and you offer some

remedies for that in this book. >> i do, reverend. i went in as an undercover brother growing up a young black man in chicago, had so many unpleasant experiences with the cops. and then even when i became a prosecutor i was still a black man, which means i got stopped and frisked and even arrest ed for a crime i didn't commit. >> even as a prosecutor? >> as a prosecutor working at the department of justice. here is the thing, reverend, i had skills. i had legal skills. i had standing. i had enough money to hire the best lawyer in town. so i went to trial, got acquitted in will less than five minutes. one of my favorite chapters in the book "chokehold" is a how-to guide for brothers, african-american men who are in the criminal justice system. i beat my case and i want other folks to know how you do it because the system is biased against us. when folks say police and prourts are out to get african-american men, reverend, that's the truth. >> stop right there because we

have thousands of people watching this morning. of thmany of them black. many with no idea of that life, approaching the birthday of this nation. so they expect civil rights guys like al sharpton to say this but you were a federal prosecutor and you're saying that did not give you a pass at all and this is a way of life for blacks. how do you make people that are white and never lived under that existence that are not anti-black, not the bigots at all. they just don't get it. how do you make them understand that problem? >> you break it down. you tell them the truth. a white woman has a much better threat of being a victim of violence from a white person, especially a white man, a one in five chance of being raped by a white person. less than one in 500 chance of a victim of a violent crime by an

african-american. folks are scared of us, reverend. we he make people anxious. in "chokehold" there's a physical reaction white folks have when they he see an unfamiliar black male face. people, it's not about racism, it's about not understanding us. another fact i talk about in had the book most white people have one black friend. if the only exposure you have is seeing us on the daily news, no wonder you're scared of us. >> now, you know, one of the things that is frustrating to me, we've been able to make some movement during the obama years. and you know i've been involved in a lot of that, in a lot of these issues from eric garner's case which "chokehold" symbolizes, ferguson and all was on the front lines. but i'm looking today the data

shows there was as many police shootings this year, the first six months, as the last two years. so even as we move forward we're moving backwards, and now you have an attorney general saying that the moves that attorney general loretta lynch and eric holder started moving in this area in terms of concept decrees and cameras on police, he's saying we're not going to move forward on that. in fact, we're going to reverse that. >> the attorney general who did not read the justice department's ferguson report. he just wasn't that interested. an attorney jgeneral who wants o bring back the failed war on drugs and, reverend, as you say, who wants to stop looking at police departments. president trump says he wants to bring backstop and frisk which already is the law in many jurisdictions. folks know that a judge in new york said the way the nypd was doing it was unconstitutional. reverend, chicago, baltimore, los angeles, the police are all

about stop and frisk what we know it doesn't make communities safer. the reason we have these results like laquan mcdonald, chances are he's not going to be convicted. you look at what happens in these cases, the rare times they are prosecute d and brought to trial often there's a not guilty. so in "chokehold" i have a couple of suggestions to make the police better, startling suggestions, half of cops should be women. women officers are much less likely to shoot people than african-americans. very good at public safety, working things out, but not as trigger-happy. also if they have college degrees they're much less likely to shoot unarmed people. there are things we can do to help african-americans have better outcomes. as you know, reverend, president trump is not about those methods. he's about stop and frisk which we know doesn't work.

>> well, that's why we're going to have to keep the pressure on not because we just like keeping pressure on but because our communities cannot continue to operate like this had. thank you so much, paul. great book, by the way. i don't endorse books but it's a great book. the book is "chokehold" by paul butler. coming up, outspoken marp of new orleans, mitch landrieu. his thoughts on why the new health care plan is bad for the poor and how to improve race relations in this country, mayor landrieu with al sharpton. ♪

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we will no longer allow the con if federal's to literally be put on a pedestal in the heart of our city. the removal of these statutes sends a clear message, an unequivocal message to the people of new orleans and our nation that new orleans celebrates our diversity. >> be welcome back. he's one of the nation's most outspoken men. he has been uncustomarily vocal about issues that others won't touch. he's not one to hold back his opinion. but this this democrat drew national attention when he slammed the confederacy and

ordered the removal of civil war statues from his city. he's now the head of the conference of mayors and is not shy. we talked about these and other matters and challenges facing southern mayors around climate change. >> those who supported the president and even those who don't and it takes our eyes off the ball of the things that mayors care about. we have a lot of cities run by republican and democratic mayors. we have a lot of stuff we have to worry about in it real time.

cities across america are not dark places. they're places of light. the host of the essence music festival. cultural and business leaders. i hear this from republican mayors and democratic mayors. whatever issue it is, criminal justice reform, we have our heads down and we're doing our job. they need to be there, get their foot off our throats and let us do the jobs that our constituents and our customers need us to do. >> this health care bill, we've seen the senate now delay it until after the fourth, it can cost 22 million people their

health care. we see all kinds of debates back and forth from the moderates to the conservatives in the u.s. senate. but you run a city and, again, you're head of the national conference of mayors, what will this health care bill mean if the u.s. senate passes their bill? what will it mean on the ground in in cities around this country is this. >> that's a great question. let me put a face on it for you. that's what mayors do. we see the faces every day. and then by the superdome there is a place called the st. thomas health clinic. before the affordable care act went into play that clinic did not exist. all of the workers used to go to the emergency room to get preventive care either for acute

care for breast cancer or if the kid had an ear ache and if you're a daily or hourly worker you would have to sit there 13 hours, get triaged and lose your job. after the affordable care act we were able to construct about 80 clinics. one clinic a mile away from here, 300 women, working class women, are able to have early detection for mammograms and make sure they don't have cancer, and if they do, get treatment for it. this particular bill before congress, the one that's there, is really in some ways really bad. the working class people trying to go to work every day. you can't be happy or proud it it takes health care away from 22 million americans. the president, this president, was really clear. he said we will repeal and replace obamacare and have to construct something that provides more and better health care to more people for less money.

what mayors are saying, forget about the philosophy of it, on the ground that has real life impacts and you will not only hurt one-sixth of the economy you'll hurt these particular individuals who have real faces, real names, real jobs, real families. it's a real problem. mayors deal with the question of crime and policing. i remember two or three years ago during a special here on msnbc about crime we walked the streets here in new orleans. very concerned about gun violence and the shootings. i've been out front with others on police brutality. how do you grapple seeing with real problems of crime where you've been one of the mayors who say that people just seem to not care about the lives of young black men and crime and

deal with policing to make sure that anybody is protected by the police and not violated by the police. >> it's a very hard balance to find. i'm not sure any of us know how to do it well. an uptick in the last couple of years and that's not a good trajectory. we saw this in new orleans after katrina, the federal government came in. hiring correctly, supervising correctly, and organizing the criminal justice system in a way that sees people as individuals, not the color of the skin. that takes a lot of trust. our police department is doing

fairly well. simultaneously we are seeing a lot of young men getting hurt. young men shooting each other. neighborhoods being torn apart. all of these neighborhoods have a lot in common. a lot of poverty. there's a lot of joblessness. generally infusion of drugs in those communities. we have a lot of wealth lost over the years. both as a public safety threat. in other words we have to tell these young men you have to stop hurting each other because if you're not we have to find a way to protect you and other people. we have to give them opportunities to make good choices. this is not one we should shy away from. i don't think we do a good job talking about it. it's either a law and order discussion or a public health discussion and it's never both of them.

and you cannot solve this just with more police and more jails. there's a much bigger picture here we have to think about. we each have respect and trust. >> i want to get to the essence festival but sanctuary cities we saw this week the supreme court let part of the trump travel ban go into effect. sanctuary cities, how do we deal with that given this new administrative thrust to really have people out of the country that don't fit a certain criteria? >> i'm going to make a broad statement. if we would stop judging people on the color of their skin and their race or eth nnicities or

what country they come from and judge them based on their beh e behavior we would be able to find out who the bad guys are, quote/unquote, and make sure we do what is necessary to protect the country. it's when we label people where we get into trouble. that term is not even defined in the law which is one of the reasons we said we're an open and welcoming city. if the first thing that we do is turn our police departments away from fighting the crime, going into and on behalf of the united states government and become the forward immigration force, we're never going to be able to get into the neighborhoods because they won't trust us to talk to them. our generals have warned us about. let's say the police department gets a call for a domestic violence or sexual assault or rape and they show up at the

scene and it's a hispanic woman, if they ask her immigration status she's going to think i'm the victim here and i'm going to get deported. then nobody helps and it will make the streets less safe. we're not going to become the deportation force for them. they should listen to the generals on the ground about how to secure the streets of america. when you look it at the statistics, the people committing crimes in this country are not necessarily undocumented immigrants. it's not the refugees. it's our neighbors. it's people in our communities. and that's a tough issue we have to deal with as you and i were talking about it earlier. and then all of us have to do a lot of other stuff to make sure people have what is necessary to make the good choices and when they don't the consequences are fair and just and based on people's behavior and not the

color of their skin. more with new orleans mayor mitch landrieu in just a moment. i'll ask him about his decision to remove con ffederate statues from his city and the reactions. we, the entertainment-loving people, want an unlimited data plan that gives us more. we want more than just texting. more than just surfing and shopping. because sure, we want to use this to call the people we love

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julie calls it her "new" normal. because a lot has changed, but a lot hasn't. ask your doctor about ibrance, the number-one-prescribed, fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. welcome back. in late may confederate statues, some more than 100 years old, were removed from public display in public places here in new orleans. the man giving that order was mayor mitch landrieu. >> the civil war continues to be relitigated over time. i don't understand why we continue to relitigate it. the confederacy, never a formal governmental entity, fought to destroy the united states of

america over the issue of slavery. that is a historical fact we node to confront and to accept. we also can clearly say now that we're so far removed from it that the south -- i mean, the confederacy was on the wrong side of history because the cause of the civil war was to deny the humanity to millions of our brothers and sisters who were african-american. and i just wanted as the leader of a southern city, a modern southern city in 2018 that's getting ready to celebrate their 300th anniversary who was really thinking about what kind of symbols we had in our city and ask whether or not that reflected the totality of who we are, these confederate monuments in prominent places of reference, i mean in our most prominent spaces, were really an affront to our sooidentity and misrepresentation and finally crowded out all of the other history we had that we've never really celebrated. the essence music festival, for example, really celebrates an entire other part of our history. we sold more people into slavery in new orleans than anywhere

else in the country. there are no slave ship monuments here, no blocks people were sold off of. no nooses that reflect where the lynchings were. i accuse the, quote/unquote, historic malfeasance because they co-opted a piece of land that was owned by the public. that seemed, to me, to be wrong. >> wow. >> it seemed to be unjust to ask after rican-american citizens, of whom who make the majority of our city to walk by pieces of property they own and ostensibly be forced to genuflect that they were less than human. i don't understand what's so cataclysmic about that in 2018 and it's sad the response mostly from people outside of new orleans was so threatening. they engaged in actions that were tantamount to burning a cross on people's lawns to intimidate them into not telling the true history. i believe we're better together than apart. i think we should be looking forward not back. you cannot look forward unless

we acknowledge what we did wrong, unless people accept an open and honest apology, and until they forgive. you can't have reconciliation unless you have that. i don't think that should be so hard for us now in the dawning of the 21st century. >> you know, it leads to you talking about the future. i was reading a study this week, mr. mayor, with the debate around climate change and this person pulling out of the paris accord that southern cities will suffer more than anyone -- any particular locations in this country if we don't do something about climate change, a city that you're a mayor of would be a case in point. >> let me take you back to the conference of mayors and how we respond to the denial of facts and science. first of all, it doesn't mean

the nation has to stop. as my kids use d to say before punished them, europe not the boss of me. the mayors of america if act in unison at the same time we can act locally and create a national policy, a national consequence. most know climate change is real. we accept man contributes to it and it will have cats trofx consequence that is are slow moving but are absolutely going to happen. in every other coastal city and absolutely all of the cities along the deep south are going to suffer dra mat tmatically fr couple of things. we have the land and then we have the sea that's rising. what that means it ain't going to be there no more. that's essentially what that means unless we do something dramatically to reduce our carbon footprint and take other actions. denying it is just a recipe for

having to move from a couple of years in the city we know not being here. this is true about miami which is where the conference of mayors was. and mayor levine is doing a wonderful job there. mayors are not going to there. we are going to protect the people because that's our job. >> since music festival gone through the 23rd year. i have spoken to everyone of them and it is enormous and it had to leave one year because of hurricane katrina and what it had done to the city and you helped to bring it right to new orleans. you have been here your whole term as mayor and you got everybody here and hundreds of thousands of people and it brings $200 million in the city. >> it is great. and you know the hang up backstage as i do. there is nothing like this in the country. >> no, new orleans has always

been a great sports entertainment town, we host some of the greatest conventions and it produces a lot of jobs. in the city of new orleans, there is 85,000 people. and essence festival is at the top. it is a 5,000 event. if you were in backstage, the back of the house is as fun as the front. >> that's right. >> all different products and factors so for the people of new orleans, essence is a great partner. they call it a partner with a purpose. aside from all great entertainers to diana ross and john legend and joe scott, all the people that were there this weekend, what you see is a tough issues being dealt with during the day at the early convention

center where we are talking about issues that affects all people of america and particularly people of color and subset of women and issues that confront them. if you compare to what goes on in davo and all the ceos all around the world the intellectual and contents matches of what is happening. we are thrilled to have them. >> well, it certainly has been that way since they started as i say i am a witness. mr. mayor, i would say because you are elected in october, we'll miss you. loud and clear, we are not going to let you go. >> you come back, i will be sitting in the front row with you, i will be with you and not

going anywhere. that's the deal. >> thank you. >> up next, my final thoughts on the 4th of july weekend and what it should mean and will mean. ♪ ♪ ifou have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... with reduced redness,... thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts... or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight... and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea,... nausea, upper respiratory tract infection... and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take

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on this tuesday, we celebrate the birthday of this nation. many of us look at us different. a mild away from the statue of general robert e lee of the general taken down, i thought about how robert e. lee fought for the right to own my people. i thought about three generations later, i sat on the platform and watched president obama becoming the president of the united states. that shows me the ugliness of

our past but the possibility if we fight. if we wake up then lets go to work, some people work, that's why we make advances. we have to keep working even through the setbacks, celebrate america by staying woke and going to work. that does it for me. politics nation will be back next sunday morning, same time, have a happy 4th. stay woke and go to work.

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