ask your doctor about ibrance, the number-one-prescribed, fda-approved oral combination treatment for hr+/her2- mbc. this sunday obamacare repeal and replace is on life support as republicans peel away. >> the bill needs a lot more than tweaking or tinkering around the edges. it needs a major overhaul. >> i didn't come here to hurt people. >> and if republicans can't pass their bill -- >> the markets will continue to collapse and we'll have to sit down with senator schumer. >> my guests this morning, health and human services tom price and two senators who say a bipartisan bill might not be such a bad idea, democrat tom carper and republican bill cassidy. plus, dignity of the office. that presidential tweet storm aimed at two msabc anchors. >> i'm appalled. this is the president of the united states.

you don't attack women. >> reporter: why does the president seem more interested in fighting the media than fighting for his legislative priorities? and new reporting that could suggest the first real link between russians and the trump campaign. joining me for inside analysis are hugh hewitt, host on the salem radio network, nbc capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt, malcolm gladwell and katty kay. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." good sunday morning and a happy july fourth weekend to everybody. and one day late, how about a happy canada day to our friends watching from over the border. who knew health care could be so complicated?

mitch mcconnell had a simple plan, draft a republican only repeal and replace bill, do it behind closed doors, pass it quickly before the opposition could get organized. then go home for the fourth of july holiday with the party having made good on a key campaign promise. well, one by one republican senators began to announce their opposition to the bill helped along by a budget analysis that said 22 million fewer people would wind up being covered and that projected medicaid spending would fall 35% over the next 20 years. then president trump made life more complicated for mcconnell by suggesting repealing now and replacing later. last night in an event honoring veterans here in washington, the president focused on attacking the media, not on health care. >> the fake media is trying to silence us. but we will not let them. because the people know the truth.

the fake media tried to stop us from going to the white house, but i'm president and they're not. >> throw in mr. trump's tweet storm against two msnbc anchors which further complicated matters and mcconnell was left with the task of trying to save the bill by himself, which is now on life support. >> are we going to get to 50 votes for health care by tomorrow? is that a no? >> reporter: republican members of congress may have left washington, but they can't escape questions on their floundering efforts to pass a health care bill. >> vote no! vote no! >> on wednesday the president promised -- >> health care is working along very well. we could have a big surprise with a great health care package. >> but by friday, president trump appeared to acknowledge that mcconnell doesn't have the votes, tweeting this. if republican senators are

unable to pass what they are working on now, they should immediately repeal and then replace at a later date. that threw a wrench into negotiations with conservatives who are desperate for a plan b that does not include the democrats. >> i want repeal and i want replace. if we can do those two together in one legislative package, i'm good with that. if we're going to fail at that, we should separate the two. we made a promise to repeal obamacare, and we should keep our promises. >> mcconnell quickly suppressed that idea but said, we're going to stick to that path, pointedly adding, it's not easy making america great again, is it? repealing without replacing it would complicate efforts to move forward if they want to avoid a democratic filibuster. what's more, mr. trump previously said that strategy was unacceptable. >> we're not going to have like a two-day period and we're not

going to have a two-year period where there's nothing. it will be repealed and replaced. >> reporter: then there's the fact that an outright repeal likely has even less support than the current senate legislation. >> i would be fine with that. i don't think we have the votes in the senate to pass that. >> the legislative hail marys come as the existing senate bill is hardening. this week some republicans have cautiously suggested bipartisanship as a last resort. >> the best outcome, i still think, would be a bipartisan bill. >> i wish we were doing this on a bipartisan basis. >> if for some reason it fails, then the floodgates would probably open to reach a bipartisan compromise. >> with the senate bill on life support, president trump further complicated the process by spending half the week attacking host mika brzezinski trying to support a bill. >> you're president of the united states of america, the greatest country on earth. you have an obligation to be

above this. >> joining me now is health and human services tom price. mr. price, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. happy independence day weekend. >> absolutely, and same to you. let me start with where the add administration is right now on this health care bill, the president suggesting repeal now, replace later. is that your official stance now? is that an acknowledgment that the senate bill is essentially unworkable as it stands? >> no, we don't think so. we think leader mcconnell and his senators within the senate are working to try to get this piece of legislation on track. their conversations are ongoing as we speak, so we look forward to hopefully them coming back after this fourth of july recess and getting the work done. >> okay. what changes need to be made that you will accept? is it more opioid funding? is that what it's going to do to

pass this? is it to scale back the proposed reduction in medicaid spending? what is it that you're comfortable with, that the president is comfortable with that you would like to see in the senate bill? >> there are three specific areas that are being worked on currently. one is the medicaid issue. we want to make certain that medicaid is a program that can survive. right now we've got a third of physicians in this land who won't see medicaid patients. that means the program is actually failing many, many patients and we need to fix that, so we need to make it so that those individuals, if they transition from medicaid, that nobody falls through the cracks. that gets us to the second issue, which is making certain that folks who want coverage that they're able to select the kind of coverage that's right for them and their families, not that washington forces them to buy. then the third area, as you mentioned, is the whole issue of the opioid crisis. the president is adamant about making certain that we address this issue. we had 52,000 overdose deaths in 2013, 33,000 of those from

opioids. the numbers today are worse than that. the president has told us and he's got a commission headed by governor christie to make certain we address this issue in a way that turns those numbers in the right direction. >> you said something to another panelist that's going to be on my show today, hugh hewitt. he was suggesting more funding to deal with the opioid crisis, and you were a little skeptical. you said, look, i believe as well that more resources are necessary but they need to be done in a way that provides for evidence-based treatment and examination of the crisis. we don't need to be throwing money at this issue. so i'm guessing you don't like the way mitch mcconnell is just throwing -- is that what you're suggesting, that looks like a buy-off of senators that are worried about it? >> no, not at all. in the past ten years, we've seen overdose deaths in this country spike to a high degree. the numbers are no better now. that should tell anybody who is sober and looking at this

situation is what we're doing right now is not working. therefore, what we need to do is address in a strategic way, in a logical way, in a methodical way, evidence-based programs that can attack this scourge of opioid deaths across this land. we don't need to be throwing money at it to say we're throwing money in there. we need to identify what's working and throw money at what's working. >> what you're saying is the united states is not prepared to say what money is necessary. do you object to this? because if you don't have the evidence yet of what exactly is working and what's not, are you suggesting that the senate needs to hold some hearings on this before they decide to throw money at this problem? >> no, there is a lot of what works that is actually known through the department of health and human service, through sansa substance abuse, through national health, through cdc.

there is a lot that's known about what does work. when the resources are provided by the congress of the united states, those moneys need to go to those programs that are actually successful in mitigating the challenge of the opioid crisis and overdoses. >> i want to go to the larger issue here which is the cost of health insurance particularly with older americans with preexisting conditions. aarp came out with their analysis, and they note because older americans could now be charged up to five times as much as younger people rather than a cap at three times as much under the current law, the aarp is calling that an age tax, that basically the older you are, the more you're going to end up paying in premiums. do you agree with their analysis? >> no, i don't at all, and i think that brings us to the point of where are we doing any of this in the first place? the fact of the matter is premiums are up, enrollments are

down. insurers are leaving the market and that's before president trump was sworn in. the fact of the matter is it's only gotten worse since then because there hasn't been action. so what we're trying to do is to bring all of those prices down, everybody. premiums in this nation have doubled over the past four years, up an average of $3,000 for the average family. that's a tax on everybody. what we want to do is bring all of those prices down so that seniors, young people, folks in middle age, folks who are naming their coverage by their employer, all of those costs come down. >> but not a single analysis, whether it's budget office or third party groups, have mentioned this is somehow going to make premiums come down for older americans. while premiums may come down for younger americans, for older americans with preexisting conditions, these premiums are going to go up. there is not a single analysis that says otherwise. >> that's because they don't look at the entire plan. the entire plan includes not

just this piece of legislation, which is a significant piece, but it's not the entire plan. the other pieces of legislation that provide for increase in competition and increase in choices in the insurance market, and then all of the things that we're doing at the department of health and human services right now as we speak to make certain that we're turning back the tide of all of the rules and regulations that were put in place previously that decreased choices, that increased costs, all of those things. if you look at it in its totality, and nobody is looking at it in its totality, we'll bring down premiums, we'll increase coverage, we'll increase choice and i believe we'll increase the quality of care for this nation. >> they can only examine legislation that's in front of them, not potential future legislation which is yet to be fully introduced. let me ask you about the president's behavior over the last week. not only has he unloaded on cable news hosts including folks that i work with, but he seems to not be trying to be helpful

on health care publicly. last night he holds a rally of sorts. didn't talk about health care. he spent most of his time tweeting about anything but health care. is the president too distracted here to campaign about health care? >> absolutely not. the president has held multiple meetings within the white house itself, with physicians, with small business groups, with other folks who have been harmed by obamacare, with patients, individual stakeholders across this land who have told him and tell us repeatedly that the current system is collapsing. that's what the president talks about. it's in the area where obamacare is in place, where aca is in place. remember, premiums are up, enrollment down, ensures people leaving across this nation before the president came into office. >> many people in the senate condemned the personal attack on mika brzezinski and attacking on

her looks. you had lindsey graham saying it was beneath the office. ben sass, this isn't normal. susan collins begging, this has to stop. lisa murkowski begging, this has to stop. does his behavior bother you? >> what i'm concentrated on is the job he's given me, and that is to make sure we fulfill the mission of the department of health and human services and that is the health of the american people. there is a whole array of activities we're undertaking. one of them is this piece of legislation in the senate right now, but my job is consumed with making sure we fulfill the mission of the department. >> i'm asking as a father, if your son tweeted to a woman like that, what would you say to him? >> chuck, this is really remarkable. we have incredible challenges across this nation, incredible challenges around the world. the challenge i've been given is to address the health care issues, and your program, a program with the incredible

history of "meet the press," and that's what you want to talk about? the american people want to talk about -- >> mr. secretary, with all due respect, you're blaming me for what the president of the united states has spent his entire week focused on? >> no. listen to me. with all due respect. the american people are concerned about a health care system that is not providing choices, where premiums are going up, where the insurance companies are vacating markets across this land. that's what they want us to concentrate on and fix, and that's what i and the president are working on. >> why isn't the president as devoted to this as you are? >> i think that he is, absolutely. the fact of the matter is that he can do more than one thing at a time, and the challenge that he's put before us at the department of health and human services is to make certain that we not only just address the issue of this health care piece of legislation but address the united states' role in the world as it relates to pandemic influenza, to address the united states' role in the world as it

relates to research and development, to make certain we're on the cutting edge of incredible innovation that's available to decrease human suffering, not just in the united states but around the world. that's the challenge that he's given to us. >> okay. secretary price, i don't think a lot of people envy sometimes the position the president puts you in. i understand that. thanks for coming on. i appreciate it. >> thank you. as we've said, the repeal and replace bill has been written entirely by republicans. but if the bill fails, an increasing number of senators have suggested that a bipartisan bill might be the only option left. this week i sat down with two senators, a democrat, tom carper of delaware, and republican bill cassidy of louisiana and asked them what it would take for the two parties to come together on health care. >> what's missing here is the chance to do what i call regular order, and there is actually great value if you introduce a bill, we have some time to read

it, we actually have a chance to hold hearings, have discussions, to talk to the cbo director and ask what the implications are. if we go through that process and have a chance to answer to members in the committee, we could help repeal that plan. >> what are the buttons hit? i think i have two, but mr. cassidy, i don't think your side thinks we're ready to hit the button just yet. >> i agree with some of what tom said, i disagree with other. we need governors involved. i for one have called governors on both sides of the aisle, including my own, including those from other states of the susan collins and i for the republicans put forth something called the patient freedom act which was a concerted effort to reach across the aisle. gail lewinsky who was h.w. bush's assistant, if you will. she said, listen, if he won't sign on to a bill in which they get to keep exactly what they have now with a 5 cent haircut,

they're not serious about working with others. we heard them speaking about how senator schumer got all eight senators in line, they can cooperate, et cetera. until they decide they're in line with signing onto the patient freedom act which allows the blue state to do what they're doing now and a red state to do something different, i'm not sure we're ready for bipartisanship. >> what do you say to that? >> this is a great opportunity to pause to say what is it in the affordable care act that we need to fix? >> i guess my frustration watching this, i sometimes look at this and say, okay, you're arguing over the details of the same structure. there are times -- and you guys sound like you're agreeing more than you disagree. >> i think we do. >> but the politics are getting in the way. maybe democrats don't want trump to get a victory, maybe the republicans don't want obama to get a victory.

i know that sounds petty, but it seems like that's what it comes down to. >> if delaware wants to stay with status quo, that should be okay with what the people of delaware decide, but if louisiana says we can't afford 20, 30, $40,000 premiums on the individual market, let us do something different. it shouldn't be for us to decide, it should be for the people of that state to decide, and if you've seen one medicaid program, you've seen one medicaid program. i would like it if you've seen one medicaid program to make sure everybody has insurance, you've seen one medicaid program to make sure everybody has insurance. >> we're talking about medicaid, and i sort of want to close out the conversation this way. is medicaid going to be the default insurance option for folks that can't get any other insurance at this point? is this the default in rural america at this point? >> when i was 29 years old right out of the navy, i got to be

state treasurer. i got elected because nobody else wanted to run. when i got elected, i thought medicaid was insurance for poor women with children. >> that was the stereo type of what it was. >> that's not what it is today. it's for our mothers and fathers, aunts and uncles and cousins. too many of them are veterans. for us to walk away from that obligation to veterans and other people, i don't think we want to do that. are there ways to provide care through medicaid in more cost-effective ways? yes. in many states we have private insurance who run managed care plans in order to hold down costs. >> senator, i feel like that's the fundamental debate inside your conference. you have said, hey, we have to get over this idea that health care is a right, not a privilege. >> congress has already established that. >> that's what you've said, but not everybody in your party believers that. it seems to me medicaid is the sticking point. not every republican is

comfortable that medicaid is more than just helping out the poor. >> i don't mind, in fact i would prefer, that people at the upper end of medicaid go to private insurance. medicaid can become a barrier to seeking self-improvement because you hate to take a higher paying job because you lose medicaid. i would prefer to combine, say, the upper limit of medicare population with the individual market. when somebody makes more money, they make more money. they're not afraid of hitting a cliff where they fall off. so there's disincentives to work and even attack a family on medicaid. ideally people go on private insurance. >> how hard does the president make this when he pops off on twitter, for instance, and it's beyond offensive? does that not complicate your goal here which is trying to work with the other side? >> our focus cannot be on the tweet. our focus has to be on that kitchen table family paying 20, 30 and $40,000 for their premiums, wondering how they're going to make ends meet. their child might be addicted to

opioids. we in washington, we in the country cannot be focused on tweets, we have to be focused on answering that family's problems. and i get so frustrated when we get focused on tweets. we need to think about these families with this incredible human need. >> why aren't you frustrated with the president? >> because if you think about what he's saying on health care, he actually wants something better. >> but you say you're frustrated on the tweets. it's the president tweeting. >> but the president doesn't make my life. i'm a conservative. i wake up in the morning and read about the lsu tigers, i don't read about the president's tweets. i think we need to have more of a focus on that family, not on the president's tweets. >> does the president make it harder for democrats to work with the other side? >> he makes it harder for himself. the most important ingredient in any law in state, government, school or whatever always is leadership. i've been trained as a leader since a 12-year-old boy scout, naval officer for 25 years, and

this man has been trained as a leader, too. one of the things they thought us early on in the navy is treat other people the way you want to be treated. they taught us that leaders don't build themselves up by pushing other people down, when things go well, give others the credit. everything i was trained as a leader. this man is none of those things. is none of those things. i look at it and i just shake my head. it's got to be harder for him to recruit people, come work for him. they're having a terrible time filling positions. they said, we're just not getting names. out of 600 positions, i think they've gotten 100 names. that's because people in part don't want to work for him. >> thank you for your time. happy fourth of july. >> to you as well. later in the broadcast, did we just see the first link between russian hacking and the trump campaign? also, the president's latest tweet storms and his continuing war on the media.

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welcome to hugh hewitt, host of salem network and now host of his own show on msnbc. anchor katty kay, nbc news kasie hunt and eugene robertson. welcome all. i want to get specific on health care. kasie, with you that is this is your beat. when the senators come back a week from tomorrow, what's the timeline and what happens? >> i think it would be possible something happens the week after they come back because they're exhausted from the fourth. i think mitch mcconnell, the senate majority leader, he's pretty tired on being stuck on this issue of having it hang out there, not being able to agree. every news cycle gets more difficult for him.

what has happened with dean heller, a key member. remember, his minority very slim. allies at the white house went after him. that caused a real rift between mcconnell and the white house. i think all of those things will be factors as this plays out. >> guys, the "washington post" did an interesting analysis of the president and his messaging. he did not talk about health care last night at his rally. he's been tweeting about anything except having to do with health care. look at these stats of the different -- the month of june each one was themed out and we have this great graphic here. so during the first week of june, infrastructure week, 80% of his tweets were not about infrastructure week. then you had the next week, not a single one about it. then technology week, not a single tweet about technology, and energy, nothing about energy. if you add in health care, then only 76% of his tweets were off message. hugh hewitt, without a president

helping, mitch mcconnell is by himself on this right now. >> i know there are ongoing conversations between the white house and some senators about what they can deliver, but mitch mcconnell is on his own. i'm one of the optimists that thinks he will get to 50 without susan collins and rand paul, that there are fixes that go to the crisis in rural america. ohio has 19 counties without any provider, nevada has 14. they're not large population centers but it's a crisis in rural america. the senate really doesn't have an option not to repair the system. it's just they're going to have to move towards the rob portman solution as opposed to the pat toomey solution, and we have to do that. >> interesting. so he moves the bill to the middle. >> to the middle. at some point i think there probably has to be a kind of explicit acknowledgment that the basic structure of obamacare is going to stay and the basic thesis of obamacare, which is

that health care is a right, not a privilege, is implanted in american society, is not going away and can't be taken away by a snap of the fingers or a passing of a bill. >> he told you about the president. it's not that he's not helping them, he's actively hurting them, even as he put on the table that you can repeal right now and replace at a later date. if there is a strategy behind it, he reminds senators that they called on this for seven years, and if they can't come up with a replacement, at least they have to repeal. american public opinion is moving in favor of more government in health care, not less government in health care. >> the point you were making in your interview with cassidy and carper is absolutely true. the middle of the united states senate, they all agree on what largely needs to be done.

there is, in fact, a bipartisan consensus around a set of insurance reforms to fix obamacare. the problem is it's called obamacare. what they're trying to pass is called trumpcare and nobody can get over that. >> it's a deeper philosophical deal. when you were talking with dr. price, endowment funding for opioid crisis allows the states to fix their solutions over time rather than one-time spending. ted cruz's idea which calls for states to have one compliant plan, there are federal solutions available, which is why i think we'll get to 50. >> mcconnell's folks are worried that the cruz poll, when they score it, that it will drive a steak for the preexisting argument, that it's a huge problem. >> it's showing him that analysis, the idea that they show it to the cbo, and if you make these changes to please ted cruz, it's not going to be there. >> there actually is a majority in the senate that could get together, pass a bill and pass it. they can't agree on some philosophical differences, but

what's written on the paper would be the same. >> it wouldn't get through the house. this is the problem. >> they would have to go call nancy pelosi and ask for her help, but that's -- >> it goes back to our original point. >> it isn't the type of bill anybody is going to sign onto. >> if this does fail, and the republicans can't do this alone, what does the next month look like on health care? is it a small deal of just sort of propping up the insurance markets and hhs says, okay, we'll give you some risk insurance, essentially? >> i think the fire rages in the insurance markets for months to come in that there will be disasters, real human disasters, if they do not get to 50. that's why i think they have to get to 50 because they will not be able to connect. >> and if you repeal and not replace, the more confusion you'll get in the insurance markets. >> i kind of disagree, i think there will be more disasters in the insurance market.

the republican party has had its hands around the throat of the affordable care act for seven years, it hasn't died, but it's not doing too well now. i think they'll have to do something. >> i smell a new version of the doc fix. >> something like that, chuck. there's been so much uncertainty, basically the only supporters outside this bill have been a handful of health insurers who say, look, this bill will at least stabilize our individual market. i do think we're at the point where the uncertainty is so great, they'll be forced to do that. later in the broadcast on this july fourth weekend, malcolm gladwell stops by and he focuses on on you americans obsess on their ideas. >> i have freedom to vote for a woman. >> freedom of religion, freedom of speech.

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and we're back. data download time. there are a lot of things that divide us as americans these days, fundamental issues like where we're headed as a country. in a recent poll, americans were split on just that question. is america in a state of decline, yes or no? 52% said yes, 44% said no. politics, of course, plays a

huge role in how you view that question. among those who voted for donald trump, 43% said the country was in a state of decline, but a majority of those trump voters said it was not. those numbers flipped if you were a hillary clinton voter. 59% of clinton voters say the country is in a state of decline, 38% said it's not. but folks, there is more to the story than just numbers, there is actual people. we went down to the mall to talk to visitors who came to the nation's capitol for the fourth of july weekend, and we asked them not what divides us but what they think brings us together. >> americans embrace one another. >> the opportunities i've been able to have as a single mom raising two kids. i don't think i could have come as far as i have anywhere else. >> i have the freedom to vote as a woman, i have the freedom to be able to do other things in some countries women can't do.

>> we have the freedom to make choices and the consequences of those choices and benefits of the same. >> i think we are stronger when we work as a team. >> we are from so many different parts of the world. >> freedom of religion, freedom of speech. >> we can protest the diversity of cultures and different kinds of backgrounds. >> because of america's past and believing in its future, i have hope. >> we spent a lot of time on the issues that divide us, but we don't spend a lot of time on what makes us the same or similar. it's actually a conversation i'm going to have later in the show. but when we come back, it's e-mail hacking and the possible collusion of trump with the russians. we have smoke and we have a gun. the question is, did they come from the same place? so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough.

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that may be a link of peter smith who tried to obtain e-mails that he believed may have come from hillary clinton's server from russians. steve bannon, kellyanne conway, sam clovis and of course fired national security adviser mike flynn. smith implied that he was working with flynn and flynn's son. by the way, smith died shortly after speaking to the wall street journal. he was 81 years old at his death there, but still, katty kay, a first time there has been an explicit, potential connection between somebody who was willing to work with the russians to do whatever they could to get something damaging on hillary clinton. >> that's why there's been a lot of attention to this story

because if it all pans out, it would suggest -- it would be the first suggestion that there may have been some form of collusion. the source of this story, a former british intelligence officer, has also come out and corroborated his part in the story. what we don't know is whether peter smith was talking up his relationship with the trump people. conway and bannon have both come out ask denied any of the links. we haven't heard from clovis on this. there is still questions on how tight they were. >> ron tate wrote this long sort of explanatory post on the website lawfare, and he writes this. at the time i got hired to collude with the russians. it is no overstatement to say that my conversations with smith shocked me. given the amount of media attention given at the time, to me it seemed really wrong. they had a reckless lack of interest in whether the e-mails

came from a russian cutout. they made it quite clear to me it made no difference to them who hacked the e-mails, only that the e-mails be found and made public before the election. hugh hewitt? >> before now, there has been no evidence of collusion. it changes it because it gives a path to collusion. i do think it adds -- it's smoke. >> it's smoke and there's a gun, we just don't know if the smoke and the gun -- >> and they put out do not destroy memos to everyone and flynn will be questioned about this, and if there is a connection between smith and flynn, there is a path to collusion. but there is no collusion evidence yet. >> exactly, but i think what this does is it illustrates the fact that people who have said, oh, there is no collusion, nothing to see here, let's move on. in fact, there is an investigation that's going on, and there is a lot of smoke,

and, you know, the trump side speaks as if it has been proved that there was no collusion. in fact, it is just being investigated. again, there is no smoke. it may not pan out, it may not be anything. >> it does give the case for the investigation. >> i think one of the questions it's going to raise on the hill, too, is the president was so defensive of mike flynn. there was a suggestion in the journal's story that, look, this may have been flynn operating under his own auspices, is may not have been in his role connected to the campaign. >> not only did they deny a link, they suggested if there was a link, he acted on his own. >> if you go back and watch jim comey's testimony, for example, significant because the president asked him to back off michael flynn. i think there is a lot of confusion, especially among senators i talked to privately, why the president was so devoted to mike flynn, and i think that could be important. >> this makes it very necessary for the president not to do anything regarding mueller other than give him the resources to

do his investigation. he cannot remove him, he cannot fire him, you have to trust him, and everybody in the city does. he has a reputation for complete integrity. you cannot remove robert mueller. >> that is -- he is the central character now, mike flynn. if you're in the trump white house, you have to be concerned. he might cut a deal. >> the question about mike flynn is there was some sense of loyalty because the president was the only person who stood by him during the course of the campaign. i think this story, really for the first time, gives weight to the countertheory which is that michael flynn may have something and the president is nervous about that and what would he be talking to mike flynn about. >> everybody cuts a deal. if they squeeze hard enough, everybody cuts a deal. >> he's vulnerable on this issue of turkey where he may have violated some law. and again, he's no longer with us.

that's another odd part of the story. we're going to take a quick break here. just this morning, president trump escalated his war on the media in a tweet the likes of which we've never seen before, and i've uttered a sentence like that a bunch of times before. we'll be right back. wait until you see this one. at crowne plaza we know business travel isn't just business. there's this. 'a bit of this. why not?

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back now with the panel. every sunday morning we start our show going, okay, in the

middle of it, we know the president is going to tweet. what's he going to tweet about today? in the middle of this show, the president just tweeted something on fraud news cnn, #fnn, and he sent out this video. let me show it to you. >> all you have to do is sign up. >> it is video of then donald trump in a little wwe sketch back in the day. people have seen this a lot. but the person he's, quote, wrestling there is -- they put the cnn face on there. hugh hewitt, we're beyond flabbergasted this morning. >> i am. most of the media is center left and most of the country is center right. combativeness towards the media plays well. cruelty does not. and when the president crosses the line between combativeness into cruelty, he loses some of his base.

yesterday afternoon at 5:00 mass, everybody there is probably leaning towards trump and everybody is appalled at cruelty. that is the line he's got to measure in. >> i'll just say the standard thing i say about so many shows. >> standard thing i say on so many shows. these are not just tweets. these are official communications from the president of the united states. >> cruelty aspect. i guess he's back on trashing cnn. which inexplicably, aides are upset he picked a fight with mika brzezinski because it was taking away from a successful fight with cnn. >> i think we've never really consumed something like this, where someone has taken, yes, when that video was filmed, he was an entertainer. now, he's the president of the united states. and the reality is you know, the media, okay, they've used the logo in that case, cnn, but it's made up of people. every single day, you know.

i go up to capitol hill. i ask questions of people. yes, i represent nbc news every day. >> you're a three dimensional figure. >> i am. >> yes. no, no. >> that's what makes that video sort of striking. >> and the fact we had sarah huckabee sanders this week coming out in the white house and for a rare briefing saying that the president has never cop doned or encouraged or promoted violence. that is what he has just done. >> i think he would argue no, he's promoting fake violence. because it is wrestling. >> they say i'm not presidential, but i'm modern day presidential. did he say that in a tweet? >> what's important to remember, i went to work for richard nixon. everything goes into your biography. nothing gets e lighted out. he's got to remember. >> just remembers today and tomorrow. when we coback, it's end game te and my fascinating interview with a kcanadian who says we

americans send a lot of time talking at one another and not to. >> coming up, "meet the press" end game and postgame. brought to you by boeing. always working to build something better. everyday. everyday, i think how fortunate i am. i think is today going to be the day, that we find a cure? i think how much i can do to help change people's lives. i may not benefit from those breakthroughs, but i'm sure going to... i'm bringing forward a treatment for alzheimer's disease, yes, in my lifetime, i will make sure. choicehotels.com. badda book. that's it?. he means book direct at choicehotels.com for the lowest price on our rooms guaranteed. plus earn free nights and instant rewards at check-in.

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triple cheddar stuffed sliders. sold! >> announcer: "meet the press" end game is brought to you by boeing, always working to build somet finally, we're going to turn to a canadian for insight into who we are as americans and how we approach our problems. malcolm gladwell hosts the podcast, revisionist history. this week, i had a chance to walk with him and we discussed the lack of creative thinking in american politics. something that's become an obstacle to solving problems like fixing our health care system. >> so, canada's had single payer for how many decades now? 50, 60 years. the reason canada has single payer is that canadians had a con ver amongst themselves many,

many years ago and asked a simple question, which is what coo do we want from our health care. and they came to the answer that what we want is a system that covers everyone and what that means is we're willing to give up choice, we're willing to give up the most high-tech solutions to various medical problems. we're not going to have expensive, shiny hospitals. you know, the basically, sat down and figured out what their priority were. what strikes me about american discussions and i think this may be one of the root causes of this stalemate in washington right now, no one's ever had that conversation. i can't figure out what people want. it seems to me, every party to the health care discussion wants something different and those things are all incompatible. you can want want to curb the cost spiral and simultaneously have access to the new drugs and patient choice and you know,

these are mutually contradictory options, so, i think that we should take a little period and a time-out and say what is it possible for us to agree on what we think the goal of our health care system is and maybe out of that conversation, you can have a kind of a clear direction to a policy solution. >> we've got another drama filled week having to do with this tweeting and so offensive fwe tweeting, but you said something interesting in a canadian interview b about why he doesn't pay a penalty for the offensive, his offensiveness and you said, so to the extent he continues to be b boor and big, he sats if fis that criteria, meaning a authentici authenticity. it is fact he is so offensive it generates enthusiasm because essentially, you're saying being

offensive is authentic. >> the cardinal rule of politics always struck me, i'm not -- to say this is you have to be true to yourself. so people have an image of you. you get penl i ized from deviating from ek peckations of who you are and what you stand for. he has made it very plain. that what he stands for is authenticity. he's not someone who follows any kind of convention. doesn't get caught up in political correctness. he's someone who speaks from his gut. and so, if you have an expectation that someone is that kind of authentic character, you look on, you see these kind of tweets, very differently. they are expressions of something that you understood and accepted about that person. >> finally, imt to pick up on a theme, it has nothing to do with your epso 2.

you said don't take side. is that a problem in our tribal politics that we now in, is is it actually, with we strive to take sides too much? >> maybe. the reason to step away from taking sides in the media discussion is it allows you to reflect on the larger questions, maybe unanswerable questions raised by a situation. i think we should indulge a lot more of those larger questions because i suspect we have a good deal more agreement in larger -- this is as the outsider, the thing about america decided has always baffled me, americans love nothing more than accent waiting their differenceses. i come from a culture in canada where all we do is celebrate everything we have in xhochblt even when we don't. we love talking about how we're canadians, we're in this together, we're all the same. americans are all the same in

tend, but you guys like to pretent you're not and i you know, sometimes, i don't think it's that hard to get back to that position of understanding how similar you are. >> see, we're all more similar than not. thank you, malcolm. if wrou didn't get enough, two suggestions. try his podcast. it will make you think, trust me. then there's our own "meet the press" we call 1947, a more extended version. that's all we have for today. thanks so much for watching. have a tremendous fourth of july holiday. remember all of these freedoms we enjoy. even when we use those to attack each other. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> you can see more end game and postgame sponsored by boeing on the "meet the press" b facebook page. on the "meet the press" facebook page. sponsored by boeing.

hello, everyone. we're going to kick things off on this sunday with more attacks against the media from the commander in chief. the latest coming just this morning slamming the press. some argue he crossed the line with this tweet. that tweet coming after this jab last night against his favorite target. the press. >> the fake media is trying to silence us. but we will not let them. their agenda is not your agenda. you've been saying it. >> that moment played out during a speech to honor veterans. the president back now in his sum r retreatn