twitter, on facebook, on instagram @alivelshi. i appreciate when you take the time the send in your observations, criticisms. in the meantime, thank you for watching. if fst monday, it's a special edition of "mtp daily," and it starts right now. good evening, i'm chuck todd here in washington, and welcome to "mtp daily." we're about halfway through the year, and on the eve of independence day, we'll focus on a different kind of freedom this country affords us. it's the freedom of the press. we avoid this naval gazing, but we look at the creeping lack of trust in institutions in the unt can, and one of the institutions is the media. everyone has seen the president's tweets and heard his campaign rhetoric.

we knew he was hard on the press on the trail, and since he has become president, the language has only gotten tougher. >> let me just say, the press is very, very dishonest, and i think people are wise to the press. the media isn't just against me. they are against all of you. that's really what they are against. i'm not going to give you a question. you are fake news. the press has become so dishonest that if we don't want talk about it, we are doing a tremendous disservice to the american people. tremendous disservice. we have to talki about it and find out what's going on. it's out of criminontrol. the public doesn't believe you anymore. maybe i have something to do with that. i don't know. by the dishonest media corporations who will say anything and do anything to get people to watch their screens or to get people to buy their failing papers. a few days ago, i called the

fake news the enemy of the people, and they are. they are the enemy of the people. even our enemies back there. look at all that press. among the most dishonest people in the world. >> folks, let's call this what it is. the president and the white house is waging a war on the media and their fight has only just begun. the trump white house is limited on camera briefings and cut back on press conferences, limiting the time he takes questions. president trump has only held one solo press conference since being sworn in, and got in a shouting match with sara huckabee sanders after she attacked cnn for doing the right thing and their handling of a retracted story. >> i think -- >> let me ask you questions. we're here to provide you answers and what you did is inflammatory to people all over the country who say, see? once again. the president's right and everybody out here is faking it,

and everybody in this room is only trying to do their job. >> then there are the tweets. president trump has slammed the media on twitter 60 times since january 20th. this is just a few of the ways. you see disparaging, demeaning, false. sometimes they are lighter in humor. i get the sleepy eyes treatment. some of the words are pretty, pretty nasty. folks, if these actions and this language was being used by a leader in a different country, our state department, not just we in general. our state department would be saying, hm. that country is inching toward authoritarianism because that's the first sign. when you try to delegitimize a free press. the presidents have warred with the press. it should be an adversarial relationship. that's fine. it's our duty to find the truth and the tuitt can sometimes

hurt. and yes, sometimes the immediate why gets things wrong, but this time feels different and yooers why. while a lot of presidents have come to blows with the press, they have usually recognized the vital role. sometimes reluctantly, but they do. >> i think it's invaluable even though it may cause you some -- it's never pleasant to be reading things off frequently that are not agreeable news, but i would say that it's an invaluable arm of the presidency. as a check really on what's going on in an administration. >> i consider the media to be indispensable to democracy. that we need an independent media to hold people like me to account. i mean, power can be very addictive, and it can be coroesive, and it's important for the media to call to account, people who abuse their power. whether it be here or elsewhere.

>> i spend a lot of time in our farewell address talking about the state of our democracy. it goes without saying that essential to that is the free press. that is part of how this place -- this country, this grand experiment of government has to work. >> the world of post truth and post substance, where do we go from here? today, we have the media correspondent with mpr, and brian cara, he was the reporter i showed you who got in the back and forth with the press secretary last week. welcome to both of you. david, let me start with you. it is -- we talked about this in new year's, and before the president got into office and sort of trying to figure out, okay. how is this relationship going to go? well, it got off to a horrendous start on day two with the sean spicer business, and the crowd

sizes, and it's just gotten worse, and i guess the conversation i want to have with the two of you is this. what should the press do? >> yeah. in some ways it was worse than we might have hoped, and at least as bad as we might have feared. it's not bad in a sense that you haven't seen -- you haven't seen actions taken against the press as then-candidate trump promised to go after the libel laws, but there are other things he could have done. you're see a hostility transparency to the rhetoric. and you saw a montage, that whether or not they feel it every moment, they acknowledge that the press is an important constitution that hems our democracy to function. as reporters and journalists, we don't talk about that on the air. it underoccurs what we do at our job. it has to be the effort by the journalists and by the kancompas

and corporations that employ them. we have to seek ways to largen our appture, and to do that in a somewhat symbolic room of the white house briefings, and at the same time, do your job outside of the white house press room. that's the most important news we have gotten. it has been broken far away from that room. i think it's important and both elements should happen, but you have to be aggressive. cnn has beefed up and gotten in a world of hurt lately and beefing up its investigative crew. it had a misfire in recent days and distinguished journalists left the network. a former pull itser winner, and becoming a an associate of president trump who is being considered for a position there. perhaps questions about his ties to a russian fund. i'm not sure those people

deserve to be fired. cnn took it seriously, retracted and apologized. how a news organization responds to such things is very much the wish that people get to judge them for fairness. they have to be able to press on. the question is, do you behave like a organization, and journalists and say, respectfully, we'll keep on keeping on? >> mark, what impressed me about what you did, and i think is always the first step in actually -- >> brian. >> i'm sorry. mark on the brain. brian, what impressed me about what you did is it's this rehumanizing the press versus dehumanizing the press. what the president does with niz tweets, and i had this conversation with him. don't personalize it. when you attack individuals, you have dehumanized, and you gave voice to this, when you said, we're trying to do our jobs here. what are you talking about? >> that's what it boils down to, and from day one, you start out

by telling me i'm the enemy of the people and i'm fake immediamedia, and i'm sure you know as i know, people have been injured trying to do this job. me and about 12 other people on the planet have actually gone to jail for the first amendment and that's a sobering experience. there are people who have died, been shot at, covered wars, and we're the enemy of the people? and to not have a press conference or a press briefing for a week on camera, and your first one on cam remarks you start out by bashing cnn in general and all of us, you know, as seen in specifically, and all of us in general, that's just a little too much to take. >> here's the challenge, and dad, i want you to weigh in on this as well. two generations of us as reporters. we're trained and conditioned to don't show emotion. we're the umpires and the referees. we are not to show emotion. don't take it personally. cover it, dispassionately if you can.

don't be the story. >> don't be the story. >> when somebody is insisting on making you the story, what do you do? >> this has been a struggle for all of us. you struggle with it. >> it's a struggle for me. >> how do you handle it? >> i handle it this way. to me, that day, and how i handled it that day, was as i said evbefore, was he was not sara, and the words come from the president of the united states. he was trying to bully us. and i told, you know, my kids and i was taught by my father, and you try to make a friend of a bully and turn the other cheek, and at some time, you have to wake up and say, i'm not going to take the bullying anymore. it's a constant struggle every day. do i not say anything, or do i say something? at that point in time, i felt like i had to say something. would i do it again? yes. do i want to do it every day? no. you work behind-the-scenes, and i don't think there is a hard

and fast rule. you have to approach each day anew, and say, what have i done, what have they done, and has it reached the point where i have to say something? >> david, someone tweeted during the mess of the president's horrendous attack on a colleague of mine using horribly graphic terms, somebody tweeted that journalists today were never trained to cover moral failings very well. and in some ways, this is what makes this more difficult. we're not good with having to say what's right and wrong sometimes because again, we have been trained to be dispassionate and the umpire. >> i think every generation supposedly tries to unlearn the mistakes of the past and make theis their own. we were trained on being down the middle and impartial, and you have seen recalibration to

the idea that doesn't always capture the facts in front of you, but the truth of those facts assembled to become, and i think there is more of an emphasis on a sophisticated, thoughtful journalist trying to make sense of the world for their readers and honest, that we have to be fair and transparent, but the idea of saying, this is one hand and this is the other hand, and it's often a deep disservice. the idea that the media doesn't acknowledge when it has become start of the story or plays a role, it's a disservice to our audience. journalists should avoid becoming the story, but they need to acknowledge they are apart of it. and when you look at donald trump, you think of a president who became essentially, 100% name recognition by virtue of his media presence, and for nbc and also through his prominence on fox news. that is something that's important to understand in who he is,s and the media, covering

the media, understanding his interactions with the media directly and through social media is not a wisideline that gives you instinct, but it's the story with this presidency. >> we are part of the story. whether we want to be or not. and that's a fact that we have to face, so how do we deal with it is where do we go from here? you can't sit back and say, i'm not apart of it. he is making us apart of it, and if you sit there and take it and take it, there is a good section of the american public when i did what i did. that's not the most viral moment i thought i would have. i called mick mulvaney a soup gnaw zi because he wanted to take food away from poor kids, and that was flabbergasting. i thought that would go viral. but i didn't anticipate this. what happened afterwards, it clued me in, that it's not just us in that room that are

frustrated. the american public is frustrated with us for not stepping up and holding him accountable for that moral failing and at the same time, i don't want to be his parent. at some point in time, what do you do? you said, don't make it personal. he has made it personal. i can't pretend that he hasn't. i can't walk away from that. >> can't unring the bell. >> there's aed good cliche. >> i'm leave it there, but there are about 10,000 things i want to follow up on. i have a space time continue yum issue. happy freedom of the press day. >> 27 years ago today. >> all right. thank you both. coming up, we'll turn the focus to 2018. democrats think they will make big gains and republicans have to grapple with how to campaign in the trump era. we'll look at the stakes next.

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capitol hill is empty with congress on recess for the fourth of july, so there's no better time to take out the crystal ball and speculate about the 2018 elections. we're waiting to hear about big retirements. the amazing thing is we don't have any. we have a good idea of what to watch for in 2018. the upper chamber, the big story is the democrats playing defense for ten seats they hold by seats won by donald trump in 2016. president trump won five of those seats by more than 20 points. the possibilities for flake for arizona, and a seat in nevada. they probably can't get the majority, and that's their mindset. in the house, 24 looks to be the magic number of seats to flip for democrats to take control. the dccc, and frankly 24 seats it is. to take control, they need quite a few seats.

in fact, there are 23 of those such districts, including seven alone in california, and regardless of what happens over the next few weeks, 2018 looks like it will be the third consecutive midterm election where the issue of health care is front and center. the exhaustion of health care. let's bring in our panel. hugh hewitt host of his show on saturday mornings. shane harris, and the senior vice president for communications and strategy at the center for american progress. i'll start with the most shocking development to me, when it comes to the united states senate in 2018. we are at the fourth of july, and not a single incumbent has retired. i'll start with your side here because on paper, with democrats looking like they cannot get control, that was a recipe for people the say, i think i'm done, and others to say, i'll run for governor, and none of them are retired. it's probably the single best

news chuck schumer has had. >> that's probably true, and i'm not surprised given the climate we're in, and everything happening on the hill, and with donald trump being president, i'm not surprised that people maybe want to stay in power a little bit longer and say they can be that, and work against the trump craziness that's happening. >> on your side? >> very few house republicans who i think are more precarious, we have had basically two. jason chaffetz, i think he doesn't want to be here in the trump years. he didn't want to have to run in a district that he might not be able to win, but again, same phenomen phenomenon? the republicans feel the same way? >> republicans have waited their whole life to be able to legislate. they have never been able to legislate. they can't here either, but they are trying. in the senate, you don't lose power when you are in the

minority. you have blue slips and vetoes and filibuster so you can be a 48-46 senate and have incredible power. in the house, as long as there is a good shot, and they are putting in this health bill, but as long as they have the majority, these guys and gals want to legislate. >> i have been visurprised at ts phenomenon that we haven't seen many retirements. >> they have this role they are playing and nowhere on the national security you are seeing the senate intelligence committee which is leading this vast, and trying to be thorough probe into the interference in the election. there's a sense among republicans and democrats they have a constitutional obligation to do this, and we were skeptical and cynical at times in washington about lawmakers and not taking their role seriously and not wanting to legislate, but people i talk to on that staff and members want to see this through, and i think there is something about the moment that they feel like they are in right now of having to

play this institutional role even separate from the politics of the situation. >> is anyone confident with what the elections could be about? >> i'm out of the predictions business. >> do you concur it will lead a referendum? >> i rationalize that health care will be front and center. >> we could be on the brink of a war with north korea, and that will change the calculus. >> for a day. >> that's a million light years away until this election. >> i guess i asked this because there will be a couple of forms of nationalization at the selection. we did get a hint at what the republicans -- this is how they are going to try to hold onto the house. play an ossoff ad from the special. >> nancy pelosi's liberal agenda

put us $22 trillion in debt, and ossoff is on her side. os off pelosi supported the iranian nuclear deal that weak end our national security, and jon ossoff is on her side. >> we're going to see a lot of those ads and similar ones from the democrats that say, 90% of so and so voted with donald trump. is this trump versus pelosi? >> i don't think so. at the end of the day, it will matter what the candidates are, and what those districts look like. the post mortems have been driving me insane. ossoff lost it by a very small point, yes. democrats do need to have some victories coming up, but looking at these four special elections that were in red districts, i don't think we can extrapolate from that, and we'll tie it to

nan nancy pelosi, and it will be a horrible thing. d >> does it work in a traditional -- >> in a district that hillary clinton won. >> what about aennti-trump? >> that's what they are hoping for, obviously. the politics have become tribal. that seems it will be a safe bet skprks the referendum on trump, but the national security and extent to which, if you mention russia to somebody to a trump support, it's everything that represents fake news and conspiracy, and trying to take down the president. that's an astonishing tribal reaction that if you want to think about it that way, and we're talking about an american adversa adversary, he tried to interfere with the election. forget about whether it was to help trump or hurt hill rary. you're seeing it in polls that

it's a reflexive instinct to dismiss that story to take down the president rather than a threat to national security. >> everybody is mobilized and chuck said on my radio show up. don't get a way of a election unless one side is demoralized and nobody is yet. mueller cannot be fired. that would be a disaster. if he comes up with one indictment of someone in the satellite orbit of donald trump, the democrats have something to run on. >> i have a fear, thesis, whatever you want to call it, that the person most interested in making 2018 referendum on impeachment will not be the democrats, but it will be donald trump. >> yes. >> yeah. >> because the threat of losing him will make folks that are not happy with him -- you make it a -- you essentially make it a recall race, right? how did scott walker successfully win that recall at the time? he had obama people saying,

don't do this this way. this is not how we do it. it might be in affect to strategy, and it could rip the democratic party in half. >> i don't think it would. i think if mueller comes back with evidence of wrongdoing, democrats would be unified and seeing that to the end. i'm curious about when you say everybody is energized and nobody is demoralized. >> i'm considered a squishy conservative. >> republican -- >> ideologically, you're a republican. >> conservative with a smile. we're not upset with anything yet. if health care craters and they don't deliver, there are three core promises. the supreme court, of gorsuch and scalia, who ray. that will be very important, and then health care. if the ship is on fire and they don't deliver something, my side

will be demoralized. >> talking to my favorite trump supporter, which is my father. that's exactly where he is on these kinds of things. if they doesn't get what he does by 2018, he doesn't have my support anymore. it's transactional anymore. if you don't make good on the promises that put you there, we'll find somebody else to do it. >> just very fast. >> the chances democrats do take control of the senate, nothing is zero. >> i think ted cruz -- there could be an upset. >> higher than you think. i'm with you. >> i agree with that. >> i think it's more in play than the handicappers like to admit. all right? you guys are sticking around. still ahead, republicans hold the power in washington, so why is one prominent house member walking away from it? now former congressman, jason chaffetz explains his personal reasons for leave whag ing what calls the crazy train.

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welcome back to "mtp daily." one of the rising stars of the republican party in capitol hill stepped down at the end of last week. jason chaffetz of utah left the house and will start his role as a political commentator. he made a name for himself as the chair of the house oversight committee where he conducted exexpensive investigations into hillary clinton and the benghazi attack. here are some of his moments. >> you started flailing around saying, here it is. it's printed. this is a slideback. it's not a report. who are you holding accountable? >> we're going to wait. we're -- >> you're going to wait. that's the problem. our people are under attack. there are people dying. what is the military doing? if you want me to start issuing subpoenas on the dccc, i'm probably not going to do it, but go ahead and suggest it. >> how about some of the fbi -- >> the gentleman's time -- >> you asked me a question. >> no, i did not. >> i sat down with chaffetz

during one of his last days in office for a pretty free-willing and candid interrue. find out why he calls serving in congress the crazy train. it's fascinating. more of it when we come back. when itrust the brandtburn, doctors trust. nexium 24hr is the number one choice of doctors and pharmacists for their own frequent heartburn. and all day, all night protection. when it comes to heartburn, trust nexium 24hr.

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welcome back. as i mentioned before the break last week, i sat down with jason chaffetz of utah. his last day on the hill was friday. we had a conversation about why he made the decision to give up

such a prominent role in the middle of his term. arguably at the peak of republican power. and then, he said he just did. and then we talked about all of the problems he sees in congress today. >> you got elected in 2008, so you came in, unusually, you were a freshman with a democratic house. you were in the minority. within two years, you get to the majority, and now you finally get to be a republican member of the congress with a republican congress, and you walk away. from the outside, it looks like a huh? >> it doesn't make a lot of sense to people. >> politically, in your public persona, it doesn't make sense. explain. >> well, you work hard to get to this point, where republicans control the levers, but it's not necessarily everything i thought it would be. first of all, the toll on the family after eight plus years -- i have spent 1,500 nights away. i got kids and expenses and everything else, and i make a

handsome salary. >> in 2008, how old for your kids in 2008? >> my youngest, you know, she was 7 years old. now she is taller than her mom, and going -- >> getting ready for college. >> going to a junior in high school, and two of our three kids are married and moving off. we're faced with the reality of being empty nesters, and i don't want to spend the rest of this congress two plus hundred nights away while my wife is by herself in utah. that's -- we have been married 26 years. that's not what i signed up for, and then you add to it, a dose of reality that the things you have been fighting for and hoping pass and bring to the floor, even when you get something as bipartisan as my immigration bill, which has 230 co-sponsors, it has no chance of going to the floor, and you say, you know what? i got the get off this crazy

train. when your attitude sours, you get off. >> are you cynical? >> i am a bit, and i have changed. i was very optimistic. >> yeah. >> i was working 16, you know, hours a day. >> you were the first member that i dealt with that was loved texting folks. you seemed to love this job. it was startling to see you -- if you would have said you were quitting to start running for the u.s. senate, that would have made sense, but that was what made it surprising. >> i love the work, but i love my family more, and it's hard for a lot of people to understand that, but there's also a lot of frustration in this job and in this work and this role, and i just -- i never -- i always admire those athletes who got out at the top of their game, and i kind of thought about that. i look at the reality of what we're going to be able to get done and get passed. how much i'm missing my family. >> you're walking away. it's a midlife crisis? >> i didn't buy a red corvette or anything. >> did you feel pressure not to

bring your family here because of how often you go back to the district, or was it the age of your kids? >> at the time, you got kids that are in grade school, about to go into high school. and i just didn't want this to be disruptive to them. there was one point where i remember i left on aened mondad i came home on a friday, and i said, hey, kate. i'm back. she said, i didn't even know you were gone. >> she got used to you being gone. >> it stabbed me in the heart, and, you know, i got to get more balance in my life, and some people, i'm afraid don't get that balance, and it's not healthy for them. >> you brought up something recently about -- there has got to be some way to fix this housing issue here in washington. and i know 50 other states aren't going to care. most people don't care. but i have always said, if people ask me if members of congress are underpaid or overpaid. i say, they are woefully

underpaid. two households on $175,000 a year. in any business. >> washington, d.c. is one of the most expensive cities. i have a mortgage at home and kid in college. i can't afford both, and so you are faced with that reality, and i do think there should be a stiec $150 a month salary. nobody will vote for a pay increase, and not this atmosphere, but they have no idea how many dozens of people who are family-minded in a financial reality they can't afford two mortgages and two sets of payments. i have a bicycle here and a metro pass, and i can get around, but i can't afford the $2,500 it takes to have proximity to the capitol, so the -- i guess, the way to pitch this to the public that is if you don't do this, then congress

only is for the so committed they are willing to do it instead of have their own life. or the super wealthy. >> yeah. you have a lot of very wealthy people here, and i pat them on the back and say, hey, congratulations. >> fun to visit them at their house here. great houses and condos? >> yes, but this is not representative of america. if you want people who truly aren't the mega-wealthy, there has to be a way for your average person to serve. you get a handsome salary, but i challenge everybody to try get two mortgages and have two sets of speexpenses and the air trav. it's expensive to fly back and forth. >> you have been -- i don't want you to take personal offense, but you are surrounded by meg mega-rich people a lot. asking for donations, and you are surrounded. >> yeah. >> and i have no doubt that that

has an impact on people as well. >> people have no idea that -- look. i do my job, you know, 14, 15 hours a day. but when the staff gets to go home on the weekend, guess what i get to do. i get to go beg rich people for $2,500, and that means going to florida or new york or california, or phoenix and saying, do you have $2,500 for me? i got nothing to give you, but will you -- and so that's something i will not miss. i promise you that. is begging people for munn. >> look at your job. you were a very aggressive oversight guy on one hand, and you were tough on hillary clinton. and there is a joke around congress that says, nobody likes to be the chairman on the oversight committee when their party is in the white house. is that true? >> it's true. you're bugging one side or the other. democrats don't want like it when you are not being aggressive enough, and when you

pepper the administration and it's your own -- >> you have blowback. >> you're getting a lot of blowback. that didn't bother me so much. i am bothered by the fact that i felt like we as republicans, aren't playing enough offense. that we weren't able to follow through on the investigations that we had done previously, and i'm very bothered that we were unable to build coalitions and pass bipartisan pieces of legislation. i just don't understand that. >> everybody has a reasoning for it, that there is this fear, the base of the two parties will punish you if you work with the other side. some of that in there? >> there's a perception of that. elijah coupummings and i have d hundreds of letters together. i think it helps me, but, you know, going into a primary, you're not touting your credentials with working on the over side of the aisle. that's true for either party. >> what would you do to fix that? how do you get more votes? utah is a one-party state in

some ways. it has had its competitiveness in the past. look. if you believe in -- i assume you believe in free markets and the best thing for that is competition. right now, the market is not working in elections. >> you need members who can answer their own questions, talk on camera, who can stand up in town halls and answer difficult questions and be able to stand up on principle and say, this is why i believe this. and if that person isn't able to do that in your own district, then get rid of them. that's, like, 98% of the people get re-elected. are you kidding me? i walk around this body sometimes and think, did anybody ever meet you? because there's no way anybody could possibly vote for you if they met you. >> well, i'm glad to hear a member say that. let's just say that. >> 48 hours to go. i can say that. yeah. >> there's a lot of bad rumors that say you're headed in the media. why? you don't have to confirm

everything, and i get you have a contract, but what interests you about our side of the fence? >> look. when i first got here, i invested heavily into going into, no, and i realized that republicans were doing a very poor job of communicate, and i have always felt, like, hey. if nobody else is going to go out and spend the three minutes explaining our position, i'll go ahead and do it. so i have always felt like there is a great opportunity to talk to millions of people at a time and truly make a difference, and i'm excited that this next phase, i think will give me more of an opportunity to go out and talk about the conservative values that i believe. i like the debate. that's what we're supposed to do. we do very little debating. a lot of show boating and single-handed speeches, but not a lot of debates. >> it's amazing what you hear from a member of congress as they are leaving out the door. you can hear my entire interview with jason chaffetz on the "meet the press" podcast. i know you subscribe, and if you

don't, do that. coming up, why i'm obsessed with independence as we enter independence day, and we'll reassess our early predictions. ahead, we're better than you think. if you have moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis like me,

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want to talk about why there are many independents in politics. get it? bear with me. i do this every on bipartisan legislation. of course there are few i wants in congress. the most famous is bernie sanders and the most interesting man in congress, angus king. but both of them caucus with the democrats. does that really count? in the u.s. house. more independent lawmakers. do you recall really want to upend? are you a disruptor? run as an independent. knock on doors and come to d.c. and blaze your own path and truly disrupt thing. maybe we need an outsider or group of them to break through the gridlock and bring the

parties together. if you can deny both mcconnell and schumer the number 50 in the senate, those three or four independents could become the most powerful bloc and you force change. just an idea. to...? look at me...look at me... look at me... you used to be the "yes" guy. what happened to that guy? legacy technology can handcuff any company. but "yes" is here. so, you're saying we can cut delivery time? yeah. with help from hpe, we can finally work the way we want to. with the right mix of hybrid it, everything computes. and it's also a story mail aabout people and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you

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. welcome back here. we closed out the end of last year by daring to make some predictions for what would happen in the trump presidency, just where would the administration stand by the fourth of july? independence day is upon us. we can finally check how well we

expected the unexpected. hue hewitt, shane harris, and daniela. the big juan job 45% o. hugh, you were on that panel, here we are, under 45. >> and 45 mass mussing has -- that's about where people thought he would be. his base is with him. that base is still holding, but not shocking he would be right about where we thought he was. it didn't seem like he was going to move from much from that number. >> cabinet picks would make it, would he lose any of them? the assumption is he would lose one somehow someway. we talked sessions, tiller soon and mnuchin, and ended up being

pez ner. reince priebus, over/under, would he still be chief of staff. we were correct this would be a constant theme of the trump white house, but he's still will. >> he's still there for for you now. i think it remains to be -- trump gives mixed messages about how he feels about him. i wouldn't be surprised if he's not there much longer. >> how much is health care's fight and his fate tied? >> i think the president constantly brings up the fact it was reince priebus, paul ryan, mitch mcconnell and mike pence that decided on the scheduling, and trump every once in a while doesn't lieic that, and he blames reince. >> and johns -- the head of

personnel, and it's very unsecretary of state-like to meltdown. i think reince is the balancing wheel. i really don't think he leaves. i don't know anyone else who could step in. >> you think the president recognize that's? >> i do. >> now the question for predictions is who in the cabinet resigns before the end of the year. >> he just brought up the name. >> after that article. >> i wouldn't be surprised at all. >> you heard it here first. let me we just all listened to that interview, all of you were surprised at various moments, but i want to bring up an idea he mentioned off-camera. he said in japan they make the oversight committee permanently headed by the head of the minority party, always. it is -- the chair is always the minority party. that seems like a nice elegant

solution. >> how efficient would that be? it's an idea that goes to the heart of our constitutional system. the majority rules with respect to the minority. we talked about the senate intelligence committee earlier, you've seen the two heads fight to keep that a bipartisan effort. the counter is the house intelligence committee, where it became totally partisan and undone. it's supposed to work with respect to the people who are out of power. >> thoughts? >> i think it's a great idea. i don't see it happening anytime soon, but i totally agree. >> you could do that it for 2020 in a kind of way where no one knows where they'll be. we don't know if a republican would be sitting in judgment of democrats or a democrat in judgment of a republican minority. downstream you get an idea that makes sense. i think that makes a lot of sense many.

>> how about jason dumping on the whole place. >> i've feld three fund-raisers in my life. i don't think it's a good time for people who are fundamentally decent. i think it wears them down and they leave. >> that's so depressing. >> so what does that mean. >> we're trying to encourage people to run for office. >> that means you have to have the gruffness of a trump? >> i think they love the time at home. i think they don't want to miss the college years. they don't want to wake up at 70 not having passed anything and having on his tombstone, yeah, he was one of 5 million legislators. >> how do we become a representative democracy? that's the biggest point we were both trying to make, frankly, which is this idea if you don't figure out how to allow middle to upper-middle class people to be here. >> truly is there not a capitol dormitory? not a way to help these people

survive in this town? it's not easy. >> until we meet again, let's go shoot off some fireworks. >> happy fourth. thank you. that's all for tonight. at least do it properly, and have a good time on the foyt. it's the top of the hour once again. i'm ali velshi. the battle over republicans' plan, or obamacare are raging on. senate leadership is putting through two new versions of their health care proposals to the congressional budget office over the holiday week, hoping to lower the total number of uninsured over the next decade. mitch mcconnell walking a tightrope of trying to appease, while holding on to the moderates. meanwhile, the white house -- latching on to a proposal from nebraska senator ben