much-anticipated first one-on-one meeting. good morning, everyone. it is friday. july 7th. >> i love that body language yesterday. there is this picture of them -- >> with merkel? >> yeah. the chemistry just jumped off the screen. >> it was incredible, really. >> picking up where they left off at the oval office. >> is this moonlighting? >> no. >> he tried to get, i think he tried to behave a little bit. >> did he go in for a hug? >> no, he's good. >> that's not the one we're looking for. with us senior political analyst for nbc news mark halprin. the president on the counsel of foreign relations and author of the book "book in disarray" richard haas and clint watts, columnist and associate editor for "washington post" david ignatius and anchor for bbc world america kady.

>> let's figure out what happened yesterday. a flurry of responses, tweets, editorials, op-eds. donald trump we were highly critical of him because of what he said in the press conference insulting the u.s. intel, patriots attacking former presidents. attacking the free press. but then we went on to the speech and despite the horrid writing of the first 20 minutes of the speech, there seemed to be some significant markers laid down for traditional alliances in europe. what was your take away from the day yesterday? >> my take away, joe, was donald trump halfway towards his traditional allies. it really was both sides of trump. defiant disrupter, a little bit of us against the world in his tone.

attacks on the news media abroad as we kept saying yesterday, how odd to go to foreign summit and attack your domestic critics. but then we saw in the speech something fairly traditional. as i reread it after the show, i have to be honest, i saw more of steve bannon and more of embattled western civilization standing up for the traditional values of the west as opposed to some broader idea view of role in the world. still reinserted the importance of article five and nato, common self-defense and some of the traditional themes. i think we'll have to wait and see. this meeting with putin today is a big deal and we'll have to see how he plays it. >> i had richard haas, i saw some people talking about how they did see the bannon influence and they were insulted by -- i will say, though, there's the bannon view of the world, which is isolated.

we go it alone. the hell with europe. but then there is a more traditional conservative view. which is not battle of civilizations, but, you know, winston churchill in 1940 stood up and save national civilization and the united states and our allies and west germany from '47 to '81. that still does run that sense still does run in traditional conservative circles. that it's our responsibility. we are at the end of the day the indispensable power. and we have responsibility to stand up for civilization itself. now, you're shaking your head. >> i am shaking my head. >> i'm just reporting back to you. they may not like that on the counsel of foreign relations and may not like that on the upper east side. in middle america many people

feel like we have to stand up to the world. >> being true to what we are at home and abroad. it's to strengthen these institutions around the world. you know, we won the cold war the last i checked. we have been the dominant force for order and for good and prosperity throughout the 20th century. so, do you really think, joe, the two greatest threats to the united states and the future are radical islamist terrorists and the bureaucratic state? i would say probably not. in the near term i would worry about north korea and a resurgeant rusha and the fact that the united states is dismantling the very institutions and relationships that got us to a victorious position. like david -- >> but, again, i'm not defending donald trump. i'm critical of donald trump in every respect attacking the intel communities. stripping away press freedoms. i mean, i don't have to repeat it. i've been saying it for six

months. him hugging autocrats and i'm just talking about what was contained within that speech itself for the audience it was given to. people who had been crushed by nazi germany and crushed by the soviet union and both times liberated in the end by the united states of america. >> i agree with all that. but it's a big but, is the trajectory we have now taken where we're essentially unilaterally dismantled? >> that's not the way to go. but, all i'm trying to say and then i'm just going to let this roll. people make a mistake. media makes a mistake. people in manhattan and college campuses and in georgetown make a mistake. if they listen to a speech like that or listen to people talking about civilization. and america's responsibility and duty to stand up and fight for civilization. and mix that up with steve

bannon's isolationism, or go it alonism. i would suggest, clinton, that most americans still believe at the end of the day civilization and the protection of civilization stands on our shoulders and our western allies shoulders just like it stood on churchill's shoulders in 1940s. >> that's what i grew up playing war and that belief system. what is weird if you listen to trump's speech ready to sweep through. this time it is islamic terrorists. he doesn't address authoritarians at all which is the threat to most of europe. we have an aggressive russia that is trying to dismantle these alliances and isolate each of these countries individually. while it does play strong to conservatives, the us versus them, it's also misleading because the them isn't just islamic terrorists, but also the authoritarian march all across

europe. >> so complicated and a lot of issues. two things that i think are in the president's world view yesterday. one is stchanging the status qu. donald trump supporters and donald trump himself see a lot of problems in the world where america is getting the short end of the stick. the second is economic. he's talking security but for him and a lot of people around him, this is about america's declining economic position in the world and american workers pessimistic about their futures. that is a battle with china for long-term dominance and a changed system. with nato a changed system and a changed system with trade. that is much more at the core than what he is thinking about. >> i wasn't surprised to hear any of those themes. if you go back to his inaugural address and the carnage and all the darkness. a place where he will rescue the united states to a position it

has fallen e to. he is talking about a loss of jobs and isis and security. these are all themes we heard from him throughout the presidential campaign and in his inaugural address. you may not agree with him, but i wasn't surprised to hear them at all. >> gli understand that. it plays to his supporters and all that. >> what i'm saying here is that it plays beyond the 38%. this isn't the steve bannon 38% that believes america is an indispensable power and there are a lot of people in the world who believe islamic terrorism because what they've seen is the threat. now, north korea is a larger threat right noa. but they believe they believe that is the threat that will be with us for the next 20, 30 years. >> when you look at where he's going and what history is going to judge. forget about the needed politics. he is not talking about the real threat to american workers and not new technologies that are eliminating jobs and nothing in the speech about that and the

real security threat to the united states now is a resurgent russia. events in the middle east that we contributed to and it's north korea. that's essentially missing. >> let's show this now. we talked about the steve bannon influence. three speeches that you can see that sort of through it. it starts with the inaugural address. take a look and then we'll get to news. >> rusted out factories shattered like tombstones across the landscape. our young, beautiful students deprived of all knowledge. and the crime and the gangs and the drugs. this american carnage stops right here, right now. the paris accord is very unfair at the highest level. lost jobs, lower wages, shuttered factories, vastly diminished economic production. a reassertion of america's

sovereignty. there are dire threats to our security. one terror attack after another. this menace which threatens all of humanity. the fundamental question of our time is whether the west has the will to survive. >> yeah. anything you want to say? >> well, i mean, obviously, i agree with what clint said and what richard said as far as the mistakes that this president has made. and the embracing of autographs. i mean, we want for the past six months. i will say, though, clint, there are a lot of americans that don't see what he said there as a punchline at the end. that we face an imminent threat from people that if they could get a nuclear weapon, a nuclear device and roll it into time

square and detonate it and kill 4 million new yorkers, they would do it tomorrow. >> they would. and we're very -- >> that's when he says those last lines that he said, i think most americans agree with it. you know why most americans agree with it? because it's the truth. even if it's coming from donald trump's lips. >> what is lost in the strategic calculations. on any day we want to take more terrorists off the battlefield or preventing the recruitment of terrorists on the battlefield. what is our strategy to do that isn't very clear. we're going hard against isis or harder against isis and going harder and harder does not keep that recruitment down. >> do you agree with what's happening right now with the battle that general mattis and the administration is taking? >> i do like what's going on in syria. i am, of course, very worried that we're replaying iraq all over again. we keep incrementally increasing troops there. i think one positive thing just over the past couple weeks is we've seen the iraqi army in

mosul actually act like an army. they fought in mosul, which is the first time we've really seen that since the entire iraq invasion. the problem there is no solution to the syrian conflict. this is going to continue on. maybe this is the first step in the meeting today. i'm not so certain about that. without a resolution to the syrian conflict or some stabilization in the middle east, we will have these hot spots continue to pop up and more foreign fighters on the battlefield today. >> david ignatius before we get to the meeting today between president trump and his russian counterpart, vladimir putin. we should end this discussion of isis with you. progress is being made in the battle against isis but even if we just win there. do they scatter to europe and the united states and commit acts of terror there? >> they are going to be around for a long while. they'll squirt out from raqa and

mosul and what i saw in syria last week was a campaign that is surprisingly successful, according to u.s. officials who have been running it it. more successful than they thought it was going to be. isis this terrible threat three years ago is being crushed in city after city and i saw as i toured some of these cities people as if they were coming out of a cave and coming out of a nightmare walking into a different world. a world that has a lot of different problems. that is one that is going better now. >> amidst all of this that we have been talking about. let's get to the meeting. president donald trump and vladimir putin will meet on the sidelines of the g-20 today just before 10:00 a.m. eastern time. the president tweeting this morning, i look forward to all meetings today with world leaders including my meeting with vladimir putin, there is

much to be discussed. expected to be six people in the room when it happens. secretary of state rex tillerson and s and. cease its destabilizing activity in ukraine and else and for moscow to back off its support of syria and iran. but he declined an opportunity to lay the blame for election meddling at the kremlin. instead saying it may be others, as well. not clear when it will come up with the two leaders speak today that senate democrats warning leaving it out will be a dereliction of duty. >> before we blow through that press conference i wanted you to talk about it, too. you had to be impassioned and angry and probably angrier than i was. that the president of the united states would attack american patriots working in the intel

community while on foreign soil. if that's ever happened before in the history of this republic, i would like to know when. >> not only does it make you want to not serve as president, but weakens our intelligence professionals around the world with all other intelligence professionals. now you're not only discrediting me and my work that i do for you as your servant. but you're saying to everybody else in the world, don't listen to me. >> the ability to recruit. >> exactly. how do we go around our allies now and exchange information when our president is actually saying, you shouldn't even listen to him, i don't. it's devastating. >> the president also tweeted this morning seemingly without provocation. everyone here is talking about why john podesta refused to give the dnc server to the fbi and cia. >> actually, i'm not there. but, willie geist. i would dare say no one there is talking about that except whom donald trump is speaking to

inside his brain. >> you don't think the outdoor cafe is abuzz with podesta and the servers. >> what exactly was in that riss rissoto. >> he didn't run the dnc, but that's a different issue. >> i didn't understand the tweet. >> this is among the really bizarre tweets and he had some bizarre tweets at this stage in history. >> what does it reference? >> everyone is talking about why john podesta refused. no, they aren't. >> i think it got stuck in the cue. >> i have that problem. you know, that does make you wonder what's going on. i'll leave it right there. but a lot of questions people have about this president. >> outdoor cafes. what cafe is he in to have people talk about john's rissoto

meeting. >> you have the most important meeting of your presidency coming up. >> everybody's talking about it. >> our correspondent over there. >> it was like the morning of the "m.mash finale. how could you not talking about podesta. >> this does underline people are trying to read into what will happen with this meeting with putin. everyone is trying to predict what he is going to say and what he is going to do. i would suggest that even people around him don't know what he's going to do or say. he is thinking about the meddling and all that. we don't know what he will do off the cuff. we won't know until it's over. >> he handled the last meeting with russians so well inside the oval office. we know, we know that he's usually more reserved.

i don't think it could get worse. i think he could put himself in legal jeopardy and maybe this russian meeting will be like the end of every perry mason episode. maybe he jumps up. i did it! i did it! he got halfway there. for the kids that don't remember that episode, they were, they were hanging out with the russians the day after he fired comey and he said, i had to fire comey. got the pressure off. >> he's a whack job, yes. >> how do you follow that up? it's got to be the arm wrestling. as for vladimir putin -- >> can you introduce me to lavrov at some time? >> sure. >> he's always happy in the pictures. >> he's always happy and i actually went to an event one time, surprise, you had never

invited me to trilateral commission meetings and i saw him and he really is just the -- >> there is a word you could use for him. >> the sneering and the resistant or the resentment and the mocking. he takes all of these -- it's like the ghostbusters. he takes all the string and he puts them together. he is extraordinarily effective at what he does. >> he is putin's foreign minister. >> he is. >> ask for vladimir putin. a new piece is out in the paper. it does not mention trump by name but lays out his own commitment to the paris commitment to free trade and a section decrying cybercriminals and hacker groups. kady, your take. that was a bit abrupt. >> i'm trying to get her in here at 20 past. >> the hand shake and they're

going to go in and have the talk for half an hour. my take is that russia has everything to win out of this one and it's going to be very difficult for donald trump to come away with something that looks like a victory for him. the scrutiny is on him. russia is playing an incredible hand with very poor cards on the international stage at the moment. and he -- the more he can meddle with american politics and the more he can get attention in american politics and the more he can have us talking about him, that's exactly what he wants out of this half hour meeting. i just find it very hard to see how donald trump who has so much less experience at this and putin who is an ex-kgb operative and how he doesn't come out with the victory on this one. what can putin lose in this half hour meeting? >> well, right now, katty, putin is considered basically the giant killer. a guy that does have a terrible,

holding a terrible hand and always does an extraordinarily effective job playing it. i would actually say those are the expectations and donald trump may actually succeed just by exceeding low expectations. i think it would be very hard for donald trump to walk away from this meeting with his reviews as kennedy did when he walked away with his bad meeting. only because for trump the expectations are just so low. >> the question is more on long-term strategy and benefit to the united states. it just seems to me that there is not very much that donald trump can get out of putin. he is not going to get anything very much on north korea. he may get some on syria and even that is up for contention. but putin's -- for this donald trump it is personal.

for trump this is personal. for putin, it is strategic. that automatically puts him in a stronger position. >> on north korea, too, richard, it wouldn't sign on to the u.n. security council resolution acknowledging it was an ibm fired by north korea they said we are not going to sign this because we don't believe it is an ibm. >> putin is playing an outsize role. this is a country, think about it, 140 million people and its energy power has diminished given the changing energy market. it has cyber and military. one other point, it's not simply a question of whether the president raises the interference in our elections, it's how. a proformer mentioning of it or a major issue in u.s./russians relations. fundamental difference in not just whether but how this is treated. >> david ignatius, obviously, the most pressing issue on the

world stage and syria has been for the past two to three years and, obviously, that's incredibly important and from what you've heard and what you told us before, vladimir putin not exactly excited about taking all of syrian problems on his shoulder. he may be looking for a deal. >> i heard high anxiety of russia getting stuck in syria. i think, i think today's news is likely to be some announcement of a process of u.s./russian cooperation and syria moving forward. it's in russia's interest and they think we may help bail them out. it's in our interest probably to stabilize the situation. tillerson, the secretary of state is committed to it as we begun to lay out the perimeters. the question is whether this is a road back towards some greater trust in the u.s./russia relationship. it is really hard at a time when you have robert mueller investigating russian hacking of

our election. so, it's going to be a weird, two-level process the diplomacy you see in hamburg and then the continuation you see at home. >> do you think donald trump will call mueller -- >> i certainly hope not. but as we said before, we have no idea what is going to happen. those 30 minutes in that room and no one around him does either. let's go to the site of that meeting. hamburg, germany. keir simmons is there on the ground amid all those protests. >> is keir getting arrested? >> is he okay? >> what we're seeing just kind of desperate protests in different parts of the city. you can see here now another group of riot police facing off against protesters. and in that direction is the conference center where the world leaders are meeting. what these protesters are trying to do is get there. the way they're doing it is just kind of, you know, carrying out

guerilla attacks all around this area and then you see the police move to try to target those incidents. those sites. what we're hearing from the police now is yesterday they had 111 officers injured. they arrested 23 people. we haven't heard a definitive number of how many were injured. i did see a number carried away on stretchers. the campaign group tells us. today we look as if we're going to get more of this. already protesters have tried to get close to the place where president trump is staying and they have, according to police, fired a flare at a helicopter and almost hit it. they cut the tires of a canadian delegation vehicle. so, i suspect that we may see more of the same today, guys. >> all right, keir. you see you have your helmet on all. still ahead on "morning joe"

chairman congressman michael mccall. former u.s. ambassador to nato nicholas burns. retired diplomat christopher hill who led u.s. negotiations with north korea under bush 41. and former ambassador to russia now banned by putin for going back michael mcfall. dick durbin and british defense secretary michael fallon who is in washington to meet with his marine counterpart joe mattis. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. choicehotels.com. badda book. badda boom. that's it? he means book direct at choicehotels.com for the lowest price on our rooms guaranteed. plus earn free nights and instant rewards at check-in. yeah. like i said. book now at choicehotels.com ♪

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this is the film that precipitated the end of the cold war. >> this is why we won. >> it's a true case of david and goliath here. it's unbelievable. >> what really changed the cold war is after rocky beat on soviet soil. the speech he gives as the crowd turns and starts cheering for rocky. rocky says i've seen changes. i've seen changes. i think today -- >> coming up, retired -- >> hold on, we're talking about rocky you never interrupt dudes when they're talking about rocky. >> no, there's like seven of them. now, does apollo die in that one? >> yeah. he's -- >> spoiler alert. >> yeah. >> and a hostile russian crowd comes around and turns his way of thinking.

>> hard power first and then soft power. >> you know, now, this is going deep and clint may know this, as well. but, i probably shouldn't say but i'm going to. speaking of sylvester stallone. now, this is -- i'm teetering out there. i have to be very careful how i say this. so, at the -- let's say the people we were holding. >> can i interrupt you? >> no. >> i'm trying to help. >> they would get movies. you know, and the idea is you have to keep these guys happy. right? because you've got to keep them talking and, yes, it gets tough. and they go back and forth. it's a good cop/bad cop thing.

it's like if they want movies. you know what the movie of choice? >> at black sites. i do not. >> rambo. >> and you know what, joe. >> they see themselves as the underdog. that's how they -- >> that's why i was stumbling into it. i can tell you multi-sourced rambo, which i guess does make sense, actually. >> for example, any american movie is put out where there is an underdog theme taking on empire terrorists love it. they see themselves as they watch that film. as we are the scavengers and underdogs. they love any theme like that. >> we have an announcement from the central intelligence agency go ahead, alex.

say on the broadcast what you just said in my ear. >> the entire broadcast. >> now you cannot get these past five minutes back. >> i have to say "rocky 2" where she looks up to him and goes -- but that they agree -- >> didn't you tear up? >> that russia hacked our presidential election. a millie dresselhaus doll! happy birthday, sweetie! oh, millies. trick or treat! we're so glad to have you here. ♪ what if we treated great female scientists like they were stars? ♪

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>> i find it dismaying and objectionable that president trump continues to deny the undeniable fact that russia launched a major cyberattack against the united states regardless against which party he launched it against. that would be former u.s. ambassador to nato nicholas burns testifying last week on capitol hill the former state department spokesman and harvard professor joins us now. very good to have you onboard, mr. ambassador. >> what do you want to get out of the meeting today? >> well, i think president trump has to, obviously, the first meeting between them. he has to take the measure of putin. they have to find a way to communicate because there will be crises and miscommunications

to come. as any other u.s. russian summit like this, you have to channel that communication. but, most of all, i think what donald trump needs to do is two things. he needs to back up the european union on these continued sanctions against ukraine because we can't have a situation where we begin to ease the sanctions on russia over its annexation of crimea and i certainly believe for domestic reasons, as well as foreign policy reasons, we have to sanction russia over its interference in our elections. the senate voted 97-2. but president trump, it depends who you listen to. the scripted trump of the speech yesterday in poland where he criticized -- >> i want to ask you about that speech as former u.s. ambassador to nato. what did you think of the speech received in poland and how do you think it was received in germany and among our other nato

allies? >> it was a speech designed for poland. it struck the right notes about polish history and it was also a dark speech. you can see steve bannon's influence on it. there were more criticisms of nato. and, so, a lot of criticism of nato defense spending. so, i don't think it plays well in western europe because in western europe the idea of the west and the president trump talked about defending the west. open borders, meaning immigration. free trade and you believe in alliances and those weren't exactly the themes that president trump in that speech yesterday. >> so, if president trump does not bring up russian meddling in the election in any way, in any serious way, is that dereliction of duty? >> oh, i believe it is. his first responsibility is to defend the country. what's more important than the sanctity of our elections?

we know the russians interfered and we know they tried to get into 21 databases in various states in the united states and we know something about putin and that is if you don't build a brick wall in front of him, he's going to keep going. we have the 2018 midterms right in front of us and the 2020 presidential. he has to raise this issue. he doesn't have republican support, as you know. in the senate over this issue. they have deserted him be proposing these strong sanctions against russia. >> katty ray. >> something i wanted to ask you about. yesterday we saw the european union and the japanese sign a trade deal which accounts for 20% of global trade. great britain and the united states. to what extent do you think actually, you know, i think president trump goes to europe with a certain amount of disdain for europe.

but isn't america being squeezed out of deals around the world because of the president's withdrawing america from trade packs and how much does that hurt america's security? >> i think the president and his team when they walked away from the trade agreements and the freedom trade agreement the european and the asians would have no alternative but to work with us on one-on-one trade agreements and it hasn't turned out that way. you really see merkel and macron being a counterpoint to trump right now in europe. they are opposing him on trade and certainly on climate change. they're not happy with his relatively, i would say, very weak policy towards russia. and this is, katty, for you and i as a brit and as an american, for the last 20 years we have seen it as the strongest polls in the west but it is really pairs and berlin and i worry

about american credibility in europe for that reason. >> it's richard here. what you just said is, i think, fairly frames the situation. what are your kind of hopes and fears going into these 24 hours coming out of the g-7? what is it you would like to see and what is it you're worried you're going to see? >> i think we're probably going to see a big difference of opinion on trade and steel and probably countersuits. but you and i have seen that for 30 years. that doesn't worry me. what worries me is that president trump has consistently become kind of a critic of the major institutions of the west. i get the fact that the europeans need to spend more in their defense. i spend time pleading with them to do that when i was ambassador to nato. but you can't be a positive reagans leader when you're criticizing. he found a lot of fault and the same is true of the eu. what worries angela merkel in

particular is that candidate trump and president trump has been a very consistent critic of the eu. these are the institutions of the west. we built the west on a unified europe and on nato. he needs to lead those institutions. a little bit of praise and a little bit of support, i think, will go a long way here. >> ambassador burns, it's willie geist. i want to ask you something that president trump said yesterday and this is the question of unanimity among intel agencies. among the intel community about whether russia meddled in the election. october 7th of last year put out a statement saying, yes, we believe that russia, in fact, did attempt at least to meddle or interfere in our election. president trump said yesterday it was only three or four agencies and some dispute within the intel community. so, just to clarify where you are sitting. what is the position on the intel community on whether or not russia interfered in the

2016 presidential election? >> well, as i listen to general clapper. the nsa, cia and fbi offered that january 6th report that was issued to the american people but all intelligence agencies and the 14 others all agreed with it. the fbi and cia have been consistent about that over the last six months. there's no question about it. when you have a big 97-2 vote in the senate, you rarely see that these days. a bipartisan vote. when i testify, you can feel the opposition to what russia has done. so, i think it's a red herring to suggest that somehow there is division in the intelligence community. >> it is red herring. david ignatius, you talked about the 17 intel agencies. the dea snisn't going to come. the dea is not going to come down on it. the coast guard is not going to come down on it. so, if anybody is going, well, only four out of the 17 intel --

no, it was the most -- the cia. the fbi. the nsa. and, you know -- >> that's why we have a collaborative group. they lead on russia intelligence. they all came to the same conclusion. they may poll from the other agencies. >> there was no decent. >> there was no decent before it actually were germane to it. so, everybody going it was four instead of 17. yeah, if you would like maybe some of the dogs could sniff something for the dea. that would make you feel better. >> this is the problem -- no one has ever offered another explanation for the hacking. >> right. >> there's been no evidence for any other theory other than russia. >> you said maybe a fat guy in jersey sx jersey. >> that's an important clarification. yesterday you saw an argument it was fake news that there was a unanimous agreement among intel

agencies. >> again, you go down the intel agencies. the ones that were actually relevant to figuring out whether russia interfered were the ones that all weighed in saying, yes. david ignatius has a question. >> i want to ask ambassador burns a question. you rightly said that it's crucial that trump may clear his opposition, u.s. opposition to russian meddling in our election. that said, do you think it's possible in this period of very bad u.s./russian relations for there to be some improvement and would you like to see that? >> of course i would. i mean, we're the two most powerful countries in the world militarily. we have to have the basis of a stable relationship. you want to see effective communications between the two. and, david, i'd say that we continue to basically agree with the russians on the iran nuclear deal. there's some differences on

north korea that have opened up, but i think that president trump could probably close them with putin. and, david, you've been reporting brilliantly about syria. i think there are a lot of land mines for us with working with the syrians ssyrians. i think we should bring that war to a close to help the 12 million homeless there. you would have a view on that. but i think the president should explore that. we don't want to be aligned with hezbollah and syrian and russia. that is in the interest of the united states. this is not all bad news here. we have to look for ways to cooperate with them. >> ambassador nick burns, thank you for being on the show with us this morning. up next, ambassador is not the only suggesting the president could not be derelict in his duty. senator dick durbin said the same directly in a letter to the president. the senator joins us straight ahead.

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welcome back to "morning joe." >> a lot of focus today, a few hours meeting between the u.s. and russia. but china has been active in germany. talk act what they've done. >> there have been interesting meetings between, and i think they're almost as important as the one between donald trump and vladimir putin. these between xi jinping and angela merkel. >> and pandas. >> and pandas, they are talking about climate change and china and germany stepping up, and i

think, of course the world still has to deal with the united states. it's the world's biggest economy. it's the word's biggest military. no country is going to walk away from having a relationship with washington, but one thing is striking. what we've seen faster than expected is how the world the stepping up on issues of trade and climate change to form their own alliances without washington, because washington is pulling back. it's huge. the deal that the europeans just announced with japan is a wakeup call to washington. this is the size of nafta, and america is being left out of these deals. >> this century, the opportunities we had at the turn of the century were extraordinary. we were at the height of our power, probably the height of any country dominating the globe since the romans and look at what we've done. while we were fighting wars, the

chinese were making investments around the world, and now when bannonism is controlling the white house, the chinese are moving in even in western europe. >> the post american world, the post anglo american world is coming about because of the abdication of the united states and britain. brits go for brexit. we do for bannonism and trumpism. it won't embrace our values. this is in many ways unparalleled in history. we've gone from a position of unique strength with the end of the cold war, and what we're doing is giving it up and letting others define the world in ways that won't be consistent with our interest or values. this is, to me, this is without precedent in history. >> thank you very much for being on this morning. coming up, nbc's richard engel previews his special reporting on the kremlin's crackdown in russia and what it means for the president's meeting today with

putin. also this morning, large crowds are mounting for a second day in a row outside the halls holding some of the world's most powerful leaders. plus the chairman of the house homeland security committee, congressman michael mccall, christopher hill, and michael mcball. "morning joe" is coming right back. and the wolf huffed and puffed... like you do sometimes, grandpa? well, when you have copd, it can be hard to breathe. it can be hard to get air out,

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straightforward and trustworthy. we had a very good dialogue. i was able to get a sense of his soul, a man deeply committed to his country and the best interests of his country. and i appreciate it so much, the frank dialogue. >> welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, july 7th. with us we have senior political analyst for nbc news and msnbc, mark halpren. >> he looked into my soul. >> what did he find? a. >> appeasement. >> a baloney sandwich. at least he found it. >> appeasement and a bologna sandwich. >> richard hoss, david

ignacious, and christopher hill joining us this morning. great to have you. >> a lot of smart people on the set. i want to go to smart person number one, not in any particular order. david, you have george w. bush making that mistake in 2001, a mistake that he recognized soon after. barack obama whispering in 2012, hey, after i win i'll have a little more space to be able to work with russia. and it seems like putin has been playing our presidents for quite some time, and would invade a country in each administration's eight years. so how do we avoid making a mistake the third time? >> underrating putin both his capacity for mischief and also his ability to play a weekend

effectively has been, i think, a consistent problem for u.s. diplomacy through now three administrations. and when you look at putin, you see this immense need to be taken seriously in a weird way he's almost an analog to donald trump. he's a tough, brash, bullying person, but he's also pretty insecure, and i think what putin most wants out of this summit is to be recognized as a world leader. this russian sense of dispossession and loss after the end of the cold war has always been. i think in some ways speaking to that without sacrificing u.s. interests probably would be useful over the long run, getting russia inside the tent feying outward as we like to say. i think that's part of the mystery of this meeting today. >> interesting you drew a line

between putin and trump and their insecurities. one diplomat told me the looder of the country looked at the two the same. you win them over with flattery and say how do you manage carrying all the problems of the world on your shoulders? richard hoss, why do we keep making the same mistake with vladimir putin and what does the trump administration need to do? >> go back to fdr and stalin. there's always an american sense you can personalize diplomacy and make it happen. there's a romance about russia. putin does not want to make russia great again. that would require economic and political reform. he can't allow that. he wants to make russia seem as a great power again. he wants respect and standing. we can give it to him, but conditionally. that's the real question. we should treat him with respect but should make it clear in

order to get what he wants he needs to play by certain rules in the middle east and europe and cyber space. >> i'm not clear exactly on what president trump's goals are for this country. his brand is make america great again. there's an article that says president trump meets with vladimir putin on friday an the russian strongman sent his early regards on thursday by knicksing a u.s. resolution at the u.n. security council condemning north korea's latest missile launch. our friends, the russians still objected. the kremlin excuse is that the draft, u.s. statement referred to the rocket as an intercontinental ballistic missile. never mind that north korea claims the missile was the equivalent of the icbm and analysis of the altitude and trajectory suggests the same. the likelier explanation is putin wants to send a message,

he can make trouble. >> chris hill, is it that likely what russia was doing earlier this week, just sending a message knowing this meeting was coming up? >> i suspect so. although, i think every great power follows its own interests. in russia's case they look for ways to be difficult with us. i think spite is a big element in their foreign policy. i mean, they have no reason to have any kind of different view on north korea than we do. it is instructive that russia and china are getting behind the idea that if north korea freezes its nuclear tests, the u.s. should freeze it military alliance. its exercises with the south koreans. this is a strategy basically aimed at weakening the u.s. south korean relationship and weakening the military alliance there, reducing it to something more on paper. in doing in an effort to decouple the u.s. from south

korea. there's a longer-term goal here, and alass, i think russia and north korea share that goal. >> clint, the president himself acknowledged in april that the relationship between the united states and russia in his terms is at an all time low. rex tillerson reiterated that. you have korea and syria and then there's russia's mettling in the election. it's incredible we're debating whether or not a president of the united states would raise that not for his own sake but raise it for the sake of the country he represents that another foreign power was interfering and trying to change the outcome of an election. can we walk out of the meeting without having said something about mettling? >> richard and i were talking at the break. he has to do something, or create the perception that he did something. there's no one in the room holding him accountable. he can say whatever he wants or he can come out and say that he said i talked to mr. putin about cyber security. we're going to work together on

this which is a pass. the problem is hackers in nuclear power plants inside the united states. they are attributing it to russia again. until a force is met against their force, russia will continue to move forward in cyber space, and there's been no plan with what we want russia to do in cyber space or what we will do as a counter. until that times, putin sees this as an open door into an america. he can mettle. he can disable our lek electric grids. if i were putin, i would push forward. >> people talk about the symbolism. is it america's interest to be seen as friendly or confrontational? >> both. our goal is not to isolate russia. they can be a real spoiler in north korea, ukraine. on the other hand, we shouldn't assume they're a partner. this is tricky. this is a multipersonality relationship.

we have to say we respect you. russia has a great tradition, but here are the terms. here are the rules that we're prepared to work with you on. it has to be a conditional relationship. and that's the trick, to get that balance right between pushing back because putin respects it. it's tactical. he's looking for openings, but we've also got to be clear where we can help. >> richard hamburg, the g-20 leaders are coming together. >> it's happening live right now. >> angela merkel, vladimir putin. >> that looks like more than twenty to me. >> donald trump, so far, we haven't seen him push anybody to the side. >> he's on the left side. >> he's to the left, and i must say even his countenance seems a bit less grim than it was in brussels. david, as we look at this picture, it has, again, we can go through this speech and find

elements of bannonism in that speech. obviously he seems to be in a bit better place diplomatically than he was in brussels. >> it's just fascinating to look at this picture and think what a big diverse world it is. donald trump has said america first. how do all the other people in the picture respond where america is asserted its interests and basically we're going to pursue that. erdogan and turkey we're looking at now. he says turkey first. go down the list. putin says russia first. among the few people who were standing for something larger than the nation state of the europeans. angela merkel, we're looking at her now. she stands for the idea of a europe that work together that transcends national borders. i think it's a fascinating

question how in donald trump's america first world, the rest of the world tries to find its own balance. >> and ellen, how incredible ambassador hill, that not so long ago, the eyes of the world would be on the leaders of the united states and great britain to see what direction those two countries were going. now it seems that eyes are on germany and france, and, actually, you have in donald trump and theresa may, two people who seem to be trying to get their footing, trying to figure out where they're going to link their countries. >> that's right. i think for our president, the concept of collective security is a pretty elusive concept. look at his speech in poland. it wasn't about exhorting poland to take a leadership role in europe. he gave us a history lesson

about polish nationalism. poland has done a lot for he helping europe. if you want to go back to 1683, they were at the gates of vienna. poland has participated in the concept of protecting europe. he talked about poland first. the problem is we have a president who does not understand the system of alliances, and relationships that have guided us for well over a century at this point. >> so the pictures you're looking at right now, vladimir putin is fluent in german, speaking with angela merkel. it's fascinating dynamics. >> what a remarkable position angela merkel finds yourself in. >> right in the middle. >> certainly in the middle of the picture, because it's in hamberg, but she's symbolically holding together the western alliance. >> germany has for so many years

after world war ii, there was a self-limits role. for the first time it's the combination of german normalization and the weakness of other parts of europe, because of brexit and the united states abdicating its global leadership role. suddenly angela has emerged. there's a leader and figure representing what we used to call the west, you're looking at her. >> richard david writes in the washington post that trump has the most to win or lose from this g-20 summit. trump's erratic tweets, public statements make it hard to predict his diplomatic strategy. trump thinks he gains leverage by making others uncertain. but the zigzags represent genuine uncertainly within this contentious white house. this president may be a deal maker, but he's not a strategist. in its presummit planning the white house has seemed to be preparing for two broad moves, a new joint effort with russia to

stabilize syria, and a threat backed campaign to russia north korea to suspend missile and nuclear tests. both are worthy goals but each will require a diplomatic finesse that trump in his first six months in office has rarely shown. has he ever shown? >> and as we're looking at the pictures, we've seen donald trump being counseled by the treasury secretary and christine lagarde, part of this remarkable group of leaders, richard. >> and david's quote is exactly right. the problem is that mr. trump confuses keeping others uncertain and off balance which can be useful sometimes with your foes. it's almost never useful with your partners and friends. they need certainty and predictability. >> richard, the reason why donald trump doesn't understand the concept of partners and friends, and i'm not saying this

being snide, but rudy giuliani himself in the middle of the campaign before he was endorsing donald trump and before he was -- when he was afraid to say that he would support donald trump, told us onset he'd never seen anybody ever walk into every meeting saying there's one winner and everybody else is a loser. i have to be that winner. unlike a lot of other business people, unlike even a lot of other realtors in the city and across the country, across the world, donald trump has no allies. it was donald trump against the world, which is why he is unsuited to understand the importance of building alliances and of the importance given -- >> every president comes into the oval office with the forces and the experiences that shape them. for donald trump, it was all transactional. separate deals not relationship building and maintenance. you didn't have to work with the same people on two or three deals. >> and also people in new york

know this. he was extraordinarily -- bringing that up only to say he saw interactions as a sort of combat. and so the idea of building alliances an idea that everybody wins around the table or your partner and you win is not something that donald trump had any experience in. >> he lived in a world that was zero sum and is now trying to apply that to a job that requires a lot more nuance, and what we're looking at now, he has to jockey for influence at a time when he's looking for a different role for the u.s. around the world is very symbolic of the test he faces not just on this trip but in his presidency as he tries to figure

out how he's going to take what he's learned about how to win in 70 years to a totally different set of challenges and different set of relationships. you look at his business career, and look for people who have stayed with him and wanted to do business with him over time. people on his payroll did, and speak highly of him for the most part. but a lot of people he did business with don't speak highly of him. >> we're looking at the g-20. they're getting together to have a meeting. we're expecting a speech from angela merkel. they just had their group photo. no incidences there that will burn up the internet over the next 48 hours. you have angela merkel and donald trump talking and macron nearby. they're talking. >> far more engaging, we found. certainly in the images that can be coming in over the past 20 minutes than he was when he was in brussels. and clint, these very things

we've been talking about as far as donald trump, the people who have known him, he sees everything as a zero sum game, i have to win, everybody else has to lose in the room according to ru ru rudy giuliani in the past. this approach where you can move from one deal to the next deal and leave scorched earth behind you, that runs up against diplomatic rocks when you're trying to cobble together an international coalition to stop north korea from being able to deliver a nuclear device to alaska or seattle, doesn't it? >> right. national security is not a free market, and so when you're in a transactional moment by moment way, you tend to find yourself strategically at a loss. you'll win one battle or another. that's a putin way of the world. he takes a lot of tactical actions. but then later the strategic misstep is not putting them together or trading one for another.

you can find yourselves standing on the sidelines. looking at the picture, donald trump was on the far left. >> i noticed that. >> in the center of the world, when you look at that picture, you go here is everybody else and there's donald trump. >> it was interesting seeing that huddle with merkel, president trump, president macron. macron has gone out of his way to reach out to donald trump. the president will come home tomorrow and turn around and go back to france to celebrate bastille day with president macron. ambassador chris hill, to clint's point about the photograph and donald trump being on the left, don't want to read too much into that, but the gravity of the room at an event like this typically circles around the president of the united states as the leader of the free world. is it your sense that has changed in the last few months or is that still true? >> i think the decision to pull out of the climate agreement goes well beyond the issue of climate change. i think it really speaks to the

united states simply not caring what 195 other countries seem to care about. so i think we have to aa great extend, taken ourselves out, and i think if you add to the fact that we don't seem to have any professionalism in how we approach things. look at the north korea policy. we have various comments made by various people, but it's really not adding up to much, and i don't think we have an agreement with china on how to go forward. we don't even have an agreement with our allies the south koreans how to go forward. i think there's some real problem, and i think it really lands on the president's desk. i think he has trouble understanding this. for all the reasons that richard was talking about, this kind of transaction notion, the fact that there's no reservoir to draw on with other partners now. i think we're going to have -- going to be in for a rough patch, especially with the north koreans in the coming years. >> i want to go back to the speech donald trump gave yesterday in poland.

obviously, very successful for the audience in poland according to most of the reviews out of there. also i'm wondering politically whether that was a speech that was designed to synthesize, finally bring together and synthesize the world views of steve bannon with the actual grownup responsible views, and yes, i'm editorializing, but it's a statement of fact if you take the sweep of the past 50 or 60 years into account, diplomatic history. the bannonism, the world view, the 36% solution, whether it's a synthesis of that view with the view of the grownups in the room like secretary mattis, general mcmaster, dena powell, and others who have actually been in this business, this very tough business for the past 20, 25 years. >> they're two strands of what

the president believes about america's role in the world. one is the previous administration was too weak, didn't project enough strength, wasn't respected enough and that america should come home and not be as involved around the world. those seem to be in contradiction, but i thought yesterday's speech was an attempt to explain how he can believe that america needs to lead the world while at the same time not wanting to have things like afghanistan and iran and iraq and other entanglements that i think on those -- those are two things with the president, but a lot of americans do as well. i think underrated in his appeal as a candidate was talking about both these things simultaneously. >> i agree, and we would be doing not only ourselves disservice in reporting but also our viewers a disservice if we didn't underline that fact and highlight that fact, richard, that the very things that offend many of us around this table are the very things that helped get

donald trump elected president of the united states. if we go and we look at the working class voters in wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, ohio, the very people that voted for barack obama eight years ago and voted for donald trump now, they don't want foreign entanglements or want the united states in afghanistan for another 16 years. they don't want the united states carrying germany and japan on their backs for the next 50 years. we understand why it's happening. but we have not had leaders for a very long time going out and daring to tell the american people, no, this is why we are in south korea, and why we have been there for 60 years. this is why we're in germany. this is what we get out of the process. right now most americans don't feel like they get anything out of this. >> look, you're right on that. and part of the challenge or obligation or i think opportunity for presidents to make the case for why we benefit from the involvement. the president doesn't believe we

do. what i felt was so interesting about yesterday's speech was it wasn't the synthesis. it was an amall gum. it wasn't a unified world view. it was like a recipe. he took two parts bannon, two parts mcmaster and mattis. you had elements of nationalism at the immigration and the rest, sovereignty, and then elements of support for nato, criticism of russia. what it was was incoherent. it was a combination. if you reread it, you can't diseadi discern a threat about the country's relationship with the world. i thought it was a place holder. >> he did say several things that disturbed us after they were yanked out of brussels. he did criticize russia for mettling, for being a destabilizing forgs for supporting our enemies. he did, once again, confirm that

the united states believed in article five. he did talk about how the united states and their atlantic allies are close now. still close. >> absolute lie. he did mention those things. he checked important boxes but the fact that he had to change what he said last time leaves people wonders. you had the press conference in the morning which was more natural and then other elements said something different and left out important things. people watching at all, it's not clear yet that this is an administration after six months that's forged a coherent world view. they haven't both because of the president, but if you look at group around him, there isn't a coherent look around them. >> let's go to angela merkel making open statements. >> translator: we chose the logo from the maritime world.

it is a riff not, and the more you pull on it, the faster it will hold, and so the motto of our g-20 is shaping an interconnected world. and since all of us around this table represent, actually, large parts of the world, there are millions of people who are listening in on what we have to say. they bring their anxieties, their fears to this table. they hope that we will be able to contribute to laying their fears and anxieties into solving their problems. this ought to be the spirit in which we cooperate here. i am certain each and everyone will do their part to give success to the meeting. before we could come here together, we have done a lot of work. they will, understand, work through another night and yet, but that's part and parsen of

their job. many young people here -- [ speaking foreign language ] >> good working basis here, so i would like to also work upon the countries here. we've worked with norway, singapore, we've worked together with guinea with the chair of the au, all of you are our guests, our very welcome guest here and thank you also for the contributions you have made already to making this meeting a success. we are all familiar with the great global challenges. we all know that time is of the essence, and pressing solutions

can only be found if we are ready to strike a compromise. if we accommodate each other's views or without sort of bending over backwards too much, and giving up principles. i mean, we can very clearly say well, we differ. we represent about two-thirds of the global population, four fifths of global gdp, and three quarters of global trade, so everyone who is not at the table today is absolutely justified in expecting us to do a good job. we're trying to put together a good -- we've tried to put together a good agenda on climate change, energy policy. germany has set a particular priority on africa because we as europeans consider africa as our neighboring continent, and we

think that we have to do everything in order to bring this continent forward. >> all right. you're watching live pictures of german chancellor angela merkel kicking off the g-20 meeting which starts right now. david, just looking at these incredible pictures of these leaders interacting right before this convened and talking among each other, i just wonder what the view is from the world of the trump presidency in terms of is it a game to work with trump given how he has conducted himself in the first six months of his presidency, or is it a gain to work away and around him? it seems like germany really is stepping up with kind of a leadership role in the world because of trump. >> i think, mika, you put your finger on something important. the world is learning to work around this very different,

difficult american president. we were looking at angela merkel. it's worth just thinking a moment about her. this is a daughter of east germany. grew up on the other side of the iron curtain during the cold war. came to power in germany with the hard, tough, political understanding that someone who grew up in that kind of harsh regime would have. she understands vladimir putin and knows people just like him. she has been unafraid of him and challenged him in many ways. she said something interesting a couple of days ago that speaks to a theme we've touched on all of us this morning. she said that she's worried about a world in which people talk about winners and losers. and that there's not a common desire for everybody to win. clearly she was talking about donald trump. the zero sum guy, the guy who believes i got to come away

having won this deal, and she was saying maybe in this new role as the world's leader in this period where america's not playing a traditional role, she's saying we need to get away from a winner/loser psychologist. i think she's fascinating. we'll see it play out today the question of whether donald trump will integrate his presidency more effectively with a world that's suspicious of him right now. >> and ambassador hill, suspicious for good reason. what does angela merkel want to get out of this meeting? and what does donald trump need to get out of the meeting? >> well, i think she would like to get out of this, first of all, a sense that the g-20 is pulling together. obviously all of the members, or i should say the g 19 would like the u.s. to be a little softer on the climate issue, and i want to stress it's not just about climate. those may be the words, but what

they're looking to hear is some music coming from donald trump that he gets it, that we need to be participants in this, and then they want to see leadership. this has always been a clem ma for europeans. they don't like the u.s. to boss them around except that they get very nervous when they say the u.s. shrinking over to the side and apparently disinterested. i think she'd like a more engaged u.s. the body language of president trump is better than in brussels a month ago. but she has had to step up from humble beginnings. she's becoming the leader of the free world, and i'm not so sure that's how she wants it to play out. >> ambassador, thank you very much. so much and something we have heard from germans and people across europe. we don't want to be the leaders of the free world. that's not our role.

we want to be beside you as you help lead the free world. so if anybody out there is thinking as we keep talking about angela merkel as leader of the free world, that is not a role she wants. that is not a role germany wants. they want a strong america that they can stand by as an ally and lead the world together. >> and i think these alliances are based on very complicated trusts. and i don't even know if it's possible to build one with trump, because he complicates trust every few hours. and i mean that literally. >> what is interesting is, and christopher hill talked about this before, the body language of donald trump at this summit is different than brussels, and you can always overread anything. you want to be careful about that, but this is a man who has obviously who does not hide his feelings or emotions well.

so it is obvious that he has figured out at least for today it serves his purpose to be a member of the international community and treat other members of that international community with some revel of respect. >> joining us now, former ambassador to russia, michael mcfall. >> every one of his books and papers, there's a press and what does it say? >> i'm going to use that. >> banned by -- >> take a look here, ambassador. this is, i guess, the handshake. >> there you go. there's the pat. and here's the underarm pat. >> putin doesn't like these kind of meetings. he doesn't like it meeting with a taller man where they have these kind of photo shots.

when obama first met with him, it was sitting down. >> you obviously banned by putin, but also you have studied it closely for quite some time. the past two presidents have made discalculations when it came to dealing with vladimir putin. what does the administration need to do to avoid the mistakes that george w. bush and barack obama made? >> he needs a business like meeting with putin. the mistake george w. bush made was he looked into his soul and saw a guy he could work with. that was a huge mistake. we all remember that. we still remember that 16 years later of that 30-minute meeting, that little snippet of things that he said, that sentence we all think about. >> and as he got out of office, he would privately tell people that putin saw the world as a zero sum game. he saw -- and he reluctantly said it, but he said he saw us

as an enemy. >> he did, and i've heard him say that privately as well. >> he needs to avoid the mistake president obama worked with. i was at the first meeting of prime minister putin and president obama. and in that meeting there was a shared sense of the mistakes of the past, right, putin went on for about 50 minutes telling the new president, this is july 2009 of all the mistakes -- >> 50? >> 50. it turns out to be a three-hour meeting. it was a breakfast meeting. he went on for a long time talking about all the mistakes the bush administration made, and the temptation for trump, especially if we're talking about barack obama is going to to be like i agree on you. you're right about that. fake news. he's going to bring up fake news. you're right about that. the deep state? i've heard vladimir putin talk about the deep state on and on and on. and the thing, therefore, our president has to avoid is

sounding too cozy. too friendly. >> that's a big problem. >> it's going to be difficult. he told me personally he thought that the biggest mistake of barack obama made during his administration, certainly with the relationship with russia was when he called them a regional power, and insulted russia. if that's his mind set going in, like you said, that the mistakes of the past eight years are primarily on the american president, that's a real president, and with him attacking an american president yesterday on foreign soil, it certainly doesn't bode well for what may happen today in this meeting. >> one thing i fear the president doesn't quite understand about vladimir putin, somebody i've written about and known since 1991, and met him several times when i was in the government. he admires strnkength. somehow the president thinks if he doesn't talk about the interference on our elections,

that's going to be a good thing for putin. he's going to look at it as a sign of weakness. putin knows what he did in our election, and for the president to bring it up, that's going to look like he's either weak or worse that he's ignorant about what russia is doing inside our country. >> stay with us. we have a lot more coming up. richard engel was going to join us, and we'll be right back. ♪ this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service.

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joining us live from germany, richard engel. richard, good morning. you're taking a look at who exactly vladimir putin is and why he's so tough to deal with. what can you tell us? >> reporter: good morning. you've been talking a lot this morning about president trump, how he has a lot of confidence in his own personality, his own intelligence, how he likes to shoot from the hip. well, he's going to have to work very hard not to fall into any traps. president putin is expected to come into this meeting extremely well prepared and to try to stage manage it so he emerges looking like the stronger leader. in style and demeanor, presidents trump and putin couldn't be more different. while trump wears his emotions on his twitter feed, putin a

former kgb come has the ultimate poker face. and russians who have tried to stand up to putin say trump is being played. >> he's playing into putin's hand. >> reporter: a putin critic and iconic chess grand master says putin is no strategist, but understands power. >> a dictator is by definition, i would rather say he's playing a poker game. >> reporter: he's a poker player? >> he's a gambler. >> reporter: a gambler who keys in on his opponent's weaknesses. putin has gone out of his way to flatter trump. >> trump with his ego will be an ideal counterpart. >> reporter: american presidentst thought they could read him before. >> i was able to get a sense of his soul. >> i found him to be very smart. >> reporter: but failed.

critics say putin's russia is mostly a mafia state and president trump should treat it as one. an anti-putin opposition activist was poisoned twice. he blames the kremlin. >> reporter: do you think a closer relationship between president trump and putin puts activists like you in greater danger? >> the only thing we ask of our colleagues and of political leaders is that they don't help mr. putin. first of all, by treating him as a legitimate partner and as a respected partner on the world stage. >> reporter: and putin, the lifetime intelligence agent has never appeared to like an american president as much as president trump. which is why so many wonder what he's up to. analysts say this meeting could end up being a win/win for putin. if nothing comes out of it, putin can say president trump is weak, ham strung by his domestic politics and if president trump

wants to make a deal, putin can say, well, the united states, the u.s. president had to appeal to the kremlin for help. >> richard engel in skregermany thank you. we'll be watching his on assignment tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern time right here on nsnbs. ambassador, let's talk about what we heard in richard's piece. that's the personnel element how vladimir putin runs a meeting. he made president obama wait for almost an hour. he made john kerry wait for a couple hours. >> three. >> he brought in 2007, his dogging to a meeting with angela merkel knowing she feared dogs. what should be the mind set of a president walking into a room where putin thinks he's controlling everything? >> in this meeting the outcome for putin is a good meeting. let's be clear. some of those other meetings, there were different outcomes. he wants all of us to say that they had a good meeting.

he wants president trump to say they had a good meeting. the content is less important. he wants to establish an idea they see the world in the same way and that he can cooperate with trump. i don't think he'll play those kind of games. he'll probably be late. he can't help himself, but i think the goal is for them to come out and say they had a good meeting, and the substance won't matter. we won't know about the substance. there's only two people in the room. that's strange. when i was at the white house, i was a note taker. i don't know who's doing that this time. rex tillerson? >> rex tillerson might take notes on a clipboard? i don't think so. >> it's important to underline something, putin will be waiting to see if president trump brings up election mettling, and if he doesn't, he'll see it as a sign of weakness from our president. >> imagine they come out and they say we agreed on the need to work together against cyber

crimes. it could be brought up in a way that is good for putin, because the president can say he raised the issue and putin can portray nothing happens and we're moving forward. and ambassador mcfall is right. the fact that they have a good meeting suggests that what happened is in the past and we're now moving forward. it's not an impediment. we have to be really careful about the language. >> coming up, two top leaders from capitol hill. the senate's number two democrat dick durbin, and michael mccall. we'll talk russia, north korea, and the ongoing fight over health care just ahead on "morning joe."

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

they aren't analyzing the information in etc. entirety. i haven't seen even once any direct proof of russian interference in the presidential

election in the united states. hackers can be anywhere. they can be in russia, in asia, even in america. latin america. they can even be hackers, by the way, in the united states. they can skillfully and professionally shifted the blame as we say on to russia. >> all right, joining us now, journalists, a former host and producer at both rt and the huffington post. also with us the news and finance anchor at yahoo, good to have you both on board this morning. especially with the perspective of both your backgrounds, looking at this meeting today, putin's personality seems somewhat similar to trump's, in some way. >> yeah, very mum similar. i think they're both men with big egos, they want to show how macho they are. also there is a little strongman envy on the part of donald trump.

i think he actually respects vladimir putin for all the power donald trump wishes he had here at home. a lot of people are wondering, who has the upper hand? it might seem psychologically like vladimir putin has the upper hand because we are so concerned about donald trump what a wild card he is. at the same time the united states needs to remember we are still the global power, we have a stronger economy, a larger military t. united states had the upper hand and donald -- excuse me, vladimir putin would like to make it seem like the opposite were true. >> one of the grate truths about donald trump is he likes you if you like him. if you flatter, he will flatter you back. he has done that over the last year with vladimir putin. knowing who vladimir putin is, former kgb, knowing the kind of strategy he puts into everything he does. do you think he walks into that meeting and showers donald trump with the praise he so covets? >> quotes from "the art of the

deal" and russia, we we heard that multiple times, yes, for sure, it will be a 30-minute meeting. i think you will hear vladimir putin give his perspectives, most notably, ukraine, russia's history with crimea. i think what we we heard from president trump is music to vladimir putin's ears, yesterday, specifically questions u.s. intelligence and bringing up wmd. that's straight out of vladimir putin's playbook when he talks about intelligence and america getting it wrong with iraq. and so i think syria may likely come up as their main agreement that they agree on anything coming out of this meeting, vladimir putin is going to approach this as a win-win. eighth bilateral meeting. not something off the sidelines f. he comes out with something great, if he doesn't, he can say donald trump has his hands tied at home. i'm sure we will meet again in the near future.

>> you brought up something about how the united states, we're always looking inward and we're always saying how bad things are for us on the world stage and how things -- but you are right, whether it's russia or whether it's germany or whether it's any of these other countries who look at the united states with destanee, our economy, our cultural power still can't dwarf that of russia. we always seem to forget that at home. bismark said their divine providence protects fools, drunkards of the united states of america. it's been proven again today. >> yeah, very much of russia's foreign policy, especially vladimir putin foreign policy is trying to make russia seem like a key player on the world stage again. right. this is a part of why russia has also tried to create different types of organizations, check organizations that leave the united states out, that rather

bring together brazil and india and china and south korea. so, yes, on the one hand that is a threat -- again i go back to this psychological argument in the way people kind of perceivist. but it condition p isn't realized yet. and russia's economy is suffering. those sanctions are having a negative effect, no matter what putin is going to say. he knows going into this meeting donald trump is not going to have to unilaterally lift those sanctions, congress is working against him. he goes in knowing he doesn't have all that much to get and donald trump doesn't have all that much to give. >> putin is going into this meeting with an economy with trump, it's a one dimensional, energy, it's not a real economy. you have serious protests going on in parts of russia. so how strong really is vladimir putin in this meeting? is there anyway that he could exploit putin's difficulty surface. >> i think if trump was more

read in on russia's current situation, maybe he would have an opportunity to exploit, the window of opportunity. vladimir putin for all intents and purposes next march will announce he is running for another term, russian president, he is still very popular at home. there is one opposition candidate of any who is out there and he's not expected to get much support at home regardless of how much pressure russia puts on him. so for vladimir putin, despite the fact there are all these negatives. you got a shrinking population as well in russia. a lot of sxhik head winds. one thing that set him more than anything is being called a regional power, which obama viewed him. being viewed as a global power, which is how president trump is approaching this is music to his years and he can bring it home to his people. >> we have much more ahead on president trump's meeting with vladimir putin. the president's interactions with world leaders this morning

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this morning . the g20 summit is under way. symbolic. it comes at a time of fracture and shifting alliances, but the event that so many are watching is less than two hours away, when president trump and president putin meet for the first time. already this morning, german media releasing video of the two leaders shaking hands, sort of interesting. sort of in gift form there. welcome back to "morning joe." it's friday, july 7th. with us, we have david ig nation, news and finance anchor at yahoo, and former ambassador to russia, michael mcfall, senior political analyst for msnbc news mark halperin and joining the conversation national correspondent for the washington post. phil mcfallen. >> david ignacious, why don't you share what you seen and that fascinating comment from angela

merkel that the g20 needs to be filled with leaders that don't look at global affairs as a win-lose proposition but, instead, focus on compromise. >> joe, we've seen a fast setting tableaux in the world of the age of donald trump. we've seen donald trump as we've noted again and again more at his first meeting with leaders in brussels trying to accommodate others, talk to them, not stand apart from them. not push them aside. but that the part of this collectivity. we see in hamburg, germany, angela merkel as really the leader of this gather of nation, at least today, there is probably something larger. she has stressed in the comments you just referred to that she does not want to be in a world where there is a sharp division between winners and losers. that's a good definition of donald trump's world, you come

away with a win or you are screwed. so that's not world that she's trying to problem. just one final thought, looking at that group together, there's more of a sense of harmony around the table at least for now than you might think given all the crazy things going on in the world. it's a gathering of world leaders who look like they've come to do business, to work together to talk about problems so i just in terms of the visuals, on each of the points we mentioned, trump, his merkel. this is a trying to make some progress. >> all eyes are on germany as president trump and president putin are set to meet behind closed doors, world leaders have begun their summit. before that they made small chat before getting down to work. in her welcoming remarks,

chancellor angela merkel set climate change, it has changed since the last time they convened. already the president tweeted this morning, i look forward to all meetings today with world leaders, including my meeting with vladimir putin. much to discuss. they're expected to be six people in the room when it happens, the two leaders, secretary of state rex tillerson, the russian foreign minister sergei lavrov and two leaders. president trump yesterday urged russia to cease its destabilizing activity in ukraine and elsewhere and for moscow to back off its support of syria and iran, but he declined an opportunity to lay the blame for election meddling at the feet of the kremlin, instead, saying, there may be others as well. it's not clear whether that will come up when the two leaders speak today with top senate democrats warns leaving it out

would be a dereliction of duty. >> we will see what will happen if we are looking at donald trump and how he's interacting with world leaders that had a frosty resex for them and he did them in brussels. quite a difference. we both were looking at the trump, the sort of the trump charm trying to lay on the trump charm to leaders of germany and france just there. >> yeah, we looked at that huddle between president trump, angela merkel and president macron. it looked familiar. we've seen donald trump in that huddle before he was president of the united states trying to charm people, putting his hand on angela merkel. >> back pat. >> whether or not it's calculate ord they talked about him carrying himself differently at this time. at that nato meeting he looked isolated. he did, he brought it on himself with the speech and the way he talked about that to. here from the last hour or so, from pictures we have seen and what it's worth the content of what he talks about in these

meetings, just from a body language point of view, this is a different donald trump than we saw overseas in europe a month ago. >> you saw him joking with the president of france. it is quite a different effect. he is putting out for the world leaders. >> it is. >> in hamburg. >> it is, it can only be slightly hope. hard to be, depending on your point of view. and i think some of the dynamics of the person amendments of vladimir putin and donald trump could lead to some problems in this meeting, what do you think? >> well, there are two different kind of leaders. they have different styles, vladimir putin will not be patting anybody on the back. he will not be joking around. he doesn't do that, he is a serious day. >> catty kay says putin is coming in from a strategy it point of view and trump comes from the meddling in the election from a opinional point of view. >> that could be a real weak

spot for our president. >> he's got a lot of weak spots, let's be honest. putin has been around 17 years, he's dealt with four american presidents. this is president trump's first meeting with him. number two, he is in a pretty difficult place because the truth of the matter is, russia violated our sovereignty during our presidential election. >> right. >> and anybody who is a strong leader, we push back on that. a violation of our sovereignty, let's call it that, let's not call it hack him, let's not call it meddling. yes, president trump, even just yesterday when it was easy, it was handed to him in the press conference when he could have hit hard. >> he didn't do it. >> he said, oh, we don't know. >> if you bring about public evidence that russia tried to hack in. may we forget the three or four intel agencies that looked into it and decided that there was the attempt to hack. your article talked about the public evidence that attacked. >> there is classified that evidence we are not privy,

presumably donald trump is. the dnc, for example, examined an organization and two other organizations that found evidence of russian hacking. there are certain tell-tale markets the same methods and markets were used in the modesta hack the former clinton campaign chairman. there were reports, most recently this classified nsa document which is released to the intercept we detailed how the russians try id toer feried interfere. there is not a body of evidence to suggest that donald trump said yesterday others may have been involved as well. to allay person looking at it from the outside seems like a mistake much less someone who has access to full breath of information. >> the russians are if a way making it easier for donald trump to address there if he chooses to, because he doesn't necessarily have to look backwards and adjust the election. we have more and more evidence

that suggests they continued to do it. whether in 2018 or 2020 with nuclear plants, with power grids. we see them do it around the world, specifically in ukraine, there are suggestions of meddling. germany is very concerned, obviously, given an ewill excoming up in september. he can focus on today and the future. he doesn't necessarily have to hone in on the election which he is clearly very sensitive about. >> i want to ask you about a piece of news that crossed the wires a minute ago, a russian leader has been released from jail alexei navalney. who is he? >> he's the most important russian figure today. he has been since 2011 when he led those demonstrations. then those were squashed by putin in 2012. remember, he was prime minister for a while and came back as president in 2012. he has then led some pretty big demonstrations this year,

unexpectedly, strikingly, a lot of the demonstrators are young kids, they're high school kids, that's brand-new. so he's a formidable leader. he wants to run as president against putin. so far, they haven't allowed that. he was arrested because of those demonstrations, probably not coincidental that he is being released today to help shape the news moving forward. >> mark halperin, we were talking about russian meddling and our elections in 2016 and whether donald trump will bring it up in the meeting. he may have tipped his hand earlier this morning with his regularly scheduled bizarre friday morning tweet. this week. >> regularly scheduled. >> it is regularly scheduled. at least the past two weeks. but the bizarre tweet this week was, everyone here. >> everyone here. >> he is talking about why john modesta refused to give the dfc serve tore the fbi. >> in the huddle. >> why didn't he give up his

risoto recipe. so is that the president tipping his hand that even when he is on the most important of diplomatic stages, he still is a small, small figure on twitter trying to tweak, that was just a bizarre, bizarre tweak as a way too start the g20. >> i have not decoded that tweet yet. it is representative of the president's continued obsession with looking back at the campaign. look the russians hacked into democratic e-mail systems, we know, also, the u.s. government believes russia probed around at least in american election, election offices and at the state level. the other thing they did was this disinformation company of using social media to spread false stories to amplify negative stories. that's the one where i think the

u.s. government has the biggest area to try to figure, most trying to make up and curious whether the president will try to confront putin today, either in the meeting or after the meeting, talking about russian values versus american values, because that is where i think america is in many ways in the most danger, the hardest to protect against, because that is the wild west. >> my guess is, they are able to come up in some way that's not exactly defective but it will be something he can say he brought it up. >> probably. >> yeah. >> i guess my question would be if you were advising on how it should come up, exactly how it should be stated, what would be the best approach? and then i have a follow up about putin's psychological games, because i'm wondering, if he will have "morning joe" streaming in the background. >> mika's greatest tales. >> yeah. >> i think the way he does it is very straight forward. by the way, it's america's national interest.

i believe in president trump's interest personally. which is he comes into the meeting and says i know exactly what you did. if you do it again while i'm president, there will be big consequences. he can use that phrase. he can put the past behind him, now i'm a president, i'm a strong president, i'm not going to put up with this. putin will respect that. somehow he thinks in his mind, his own president's election is illegitimate. it won't be with putp. b, can you agree to disagree. you can be confrontational with putin on one issue and cooperate on the next. to come in and be in a kind of concessionary mode to give -- make putin feel comfortable. putin doesn't respect that. he will not respect the president if he sounds weak, if he sounds insecure about talking act basic facts. putin know what is he did. for trump not to bring it up, that sounds weak to him. >> i am sure they will brush bit or say we need to talk about

this. here we go, cyber security. >> that happens -- >> and mock the entire situation. >> oh, i'm supposed to talk about human right. i'm supposed to talk about cyber. >> they laugh together. >> somebody can read it out to say they did. >> let's talk about how vladimir putin former kgb agent sets up his, his people that he's meeting with, his counterparts in the summit. we we heard famously that angela merkel didn't like dogs, so he brought a dog to the summit. he does tricks like that all the time. >> he does. >> he takes the -- knowing the background, knowing the siej background, knowing the psychological backgrounds, that's what the kgb does. he likes to put you off guard. i seen wit president obama, vice president biden. >> can i ask early on in the

obama-putin meetings, you know i didn't vote for barack obama. i wasn't especially a fan of scorn policy, he was deeply offended as an american at how putin would slump in the care, look away and i kept saying, i wish the president would say, hey, i'm over here. would you like to look at me or would you like -- if you have somewhere else use rather go, then go. i was stunned at the extreme disrespect he showed that american president. >> yeah. he didn't in 2009. so when they first met, when putin was prime minister, he was much more polite. this was a meeting they had at his house. i was there, i was a note-taker, a russia adviser for the white house at the time. 2012, however, when things got much more confrontational, he did exactly that. in fact, it was the g20 summit in los cabos. the press called it body-gate. because the body language was so

bad. he likes to insult. he's a fairly arrogant guy. he likes to do those kind of things. he likes to make, if he wants a confrontation with you, he's not afraid both verbally and in his demeanor to do that. but not the case, however, today. today he wants a good meeting. today he wants to say, trump and i, president trump and i, we agree on a lot of things t. fake news people and the deep state people, they're the ones getting in the way of us cooperating. that's the kind of readout that putin seeks today. so i think he will be on his best behavior. >> you say you were the note-taker in that meeting. it strikes me the graphic mika put up minutes ago, we have secretary of state, there is no note-taker in that meeting so we may not get a full accounting of what happens in that room. >> i have to say, that's exactly right. ma ib the last time when the president met with foreign

minister lavrov they had a note-taker. the mem-com was leaked. maybe they decided they don't want anyone at all. we won't know much because of that very fact. i think it's a mistake to go plus one. it's crazy to me the national security adviser is not in this meeting. general mcmaster is not in this meeting. >> and why is he not? >> well, putin likes small meetings. so when we negotiated with him, it was always plus one, plus two, plus three. we usually had plus three. if you go back and you look at the meeting, that putin-obama had, we had three people in the room. plus one is a mistake. one up don't have your national security adviser there. on his staff, he has a very smart person on russia, fiona helm. she should be in the room. she speaks rush u russian, she knows the issue, he needs to defer to somebody about some

spec thing, you want staff. >> it's will talk about rex tillerson, rex tillerson knows russia. he sent deals to vladimir putin, and, in fact, he struck a pretty good deal for himself at exxon with vladimir putin, got the better of vladimir putin in that deal. do you take any comfort in rex tillerson being there, especially since we've we heard one report after another that he started flexing his muscles and telling young staffers to basically get the [ bleep ] out of his way. >> well, secretary tillerson does know russia. just because he did a big deal running exxonmobile doesn't mean he doesn't understand putin and his complexity. that's the good thing t. bad thing -- here's my biggest worry. putin will come into this meeting and say, you know whatter, first of all, a 30 -- a short meeting, ten minutes about

how awful barack obama was. president trump will nod along. they will agree on that. then he will say, right at the end, president obama illegally seized our properties in maryland and new york. that's the word he will use. he will have a legalistic explanation and turn to trump and say, you, in order for us to have a good meeting here, you need to return those. trump needs to have a response, i don't know what it is. >> unfortunately, i think he will agree with that, too. fi philip says if we don't return that property, they will seize u.s. property in russia. >> they will figure out how to turn these properties back over to russia. donald trump has for the first six months of his presidency, he had this russia issue looming. it made him otherwise do things, he may turn the compounds over

already if it wasn't for the fact there is so much scrutiny. it will be interesting to see how this plays out t. ambassador obviously knows the decision very well. he understands the leverage that putin has over trump. i think one of the things that's fascinating about this meeting is simply the fact there are two people dealing on the geopolitical stage less than a year combined facing off against putin and lavrov. >> that provides an imbalance to put trump at a significant disadvantage. >> can i add one more major dwimpbs between trump and putin. putin doesn't publiclied a monish question or mock his intelligence agents. it's a different advantage president trump walks into this meeting with, he says i know what you mean, president putin can say what do you mean? you questioned yesterday whether they had it right. it's something you don't see vladimir putin doing especially given his backgrounds. >> unfortunately, have you president trump, vladimir putin, talking about fake news in the

deep state as well as, unfortunately, some right wing commentators who have aligned themselves with vladimir putin. so you don't have to go to hamburg to hear what vladimir putin is saying. you can turn into certain cable news channels and hear it late at night saying the same thing about fake news in the deep state. it is really bizarre some people on the far right have now aligned themselves with russians. >> ambassador michael mcfaul, thank you for being on. great insight. congressman michael mccaul, senator dig durbin and british defense secretary michael fal n fallon. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right

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seem like you don't do anything toke, it seems like you don't like each other. i always respond as follows, anything you may have we heard any of us say about each other pales in comparison to what thomas jefferson and john adams said about each other. it isn't anywhere close to what they said about each other. we haven't had a single incident where a congressman came over to the senate and almost beat to death a senator on the floor of the senate. we haven't had a single incident leak that. >> joining frus springfield, illinois, a member of the senate judiciary committee, democratic dick durbin also at that town hall mitch mcconnell spoke about republicans will fail on their efforts on obamacare an seems to suggest tear only option may be to work across the aisle and make adjustments to the affordable care act. it seems like what we should have done. what do you make of that?

>> well, that's a break through. i hope that that occurs. regular order of bes to bring a measure before us on a bipartisan basis and to make our health care system stronger is the right way to go. the idea we'll repeal today and think about the replacement tomorrow is totally irresponsible. i'm traveling around my state of illinois visiting rural hospitals worried about their future, because the republican plan that passed in the house of representatives. >> senator, it's willie geist on a different subject. i want to ask you about this meeting coming up in an hour or so with president trump and president putin. you tweeted potus don't let putin off the hook for election meddling tomorrow, if you do, it's a stunning abdication of your duty to protect the u.s. we don't know if he plans to bring it up with president putin. what specifically would you like our president to say to putin?

>> willie, let me tell you why i raised that issue, i'm sitting in the illinois state capital. we were one of the victims of putin's hacking. it was the voter into ill they got into. thank goodness we don't think they changed resulter or had a direct impact on the outcome of any election. they were trying their best to do that. i met with the board of elections. they're worried about the next rond and tear vulnerability. so is the president of the united states of america going to confront the russian leaderrant this attempt to meddle into our election into my voter file in my state of illinois? so far he's shown no interest in this and doesn't take it seriously. i worry about that. i think that ought to be the number one issue on the agenda. >> what does it tell you, senator, if he does not raise this issue with vladimir putin? >> i don't think president trump takes this issue seriously, i'll be honest with you. the last time he met with russian officials in the oval

office may 10th, what happened there was shocking, shocking in terms of diplomatic history. you think a president of the united states would bring in foreign minister lavrov and the russian ambassador kislyak, he would bar the american media from covering it, bring in a russian reporter, photographer, disclose highly sensitive intelligence information to his russian guests then characterize jim comey the head of the director of the fbi as a nut job and assure russian visitors not to worry about the russian investigation. it tells me this president is not taking this seriously. this was a day of cyber infamy when the russians attacked or electoral system t. president ought to take it seriously. >> senator, what itself the most positive thing you have to say about vladimir putin and the most negative? >> well the most positive thing is he is gifted in his knowledge of history, our president is

not. he certainly knows how to meet with foreign leaders and to push his agenda. our president has limited experience in that. he knows the intelligence agencies of russia since he was a member of the kgb a period of time. our president tends to deride his own intelligence actions and therapy findings. so he's in a strong hand in this negotiation compared to our president. in terms of his weakness, he, too, suffers from a form of megalomania, he is trying to restore a soviet empire which is long gone if history. he is intimidating his neighbors in a variety of the different ways, it is up to the united states of marc to stands up to this tyrant. >> senator dick durbin, thank you so much for coming othen show. up next, breaking news on the economy, we got a first look at the brand-new jobs report. >> that is next on "morning joe."

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>> go no home depot, everyone is focused on nonsense on garbage. >> there goes home depo, so goes america. eric trump speaking on fox news thinking the economy is doing

great and breaking physical news right now. with the june jobs report shows crossing and cnbc domenic chu has the numbers. it appears for this month, the home depo test is working. >> reporter: it is. it's great you kind of came in with that particular sound boit. because i'll get to it if a second but construction is strong point. it echos the home trade. non-payrolls came in 222,000 jobs gained in the month of june. that beat the estimates. the unemployment rate did tick slightly higher to 4.4% smr the unemployment rate always goes up when the news is good and it' else to go down when the news is bad it's just bizarre. >> reporter: it's first participation rate. the more people that go out for jobs. >> those numbers are up as well,

right? >> exactly. 62.8% is the labor force, a slight uptick a. few more people out there are seeking employment. we should point out here they were up for revisions to previous months by around 47,000. so the last months were underestimated. the sectors i want to get into are important. you mentioned the home depot trade, guy, health care one of the best performing industries with respect to job growth. 37,000 jobs added there. professional and business services added 35,000 jobs. hospitality and food was 29,000 and there's construction and home building 16,000 jobs gained. that speaks to that whole construction u construction economy the home building side of things, folks, i would say this. it has been a strong point for the bet ore part of a couple of years here with regards to home builders, home depos and lowes as well to watch there. >> although i like debating on national television nobel prize

winning exists, i'm not actually really good at economics. but fortunately i got a new tutor, energy secretary rick perrier, plaining not only to me but the entire world loves its supply and demand. join it. >> yeah. >> reporter: how does this administration hope at all too control market forces to shell gas to a half? >> you know, here's a little economics lesson. is that supply and demand. you put the supply out there and the demand will follow that. >> all right. dom. >> reporter: it's a bit of an optimistic view. it's like the field of dreams approach. it's the iowa school of economics. if you build it, they will come. if you put supply out that i will come. generally people say econ 101, there is a lot of stuff at play in that economics lesson. >> we have tried to tell a slot of things on the street of new

york over the past 15 years, we can tell you, the rick perry law of supply and demand doesn't always work. >> you have to build in the planes flying in off the coast of miami. all that stuff. >> domenic chu, thank you. coming up, like the united states the uk is fighting in afghanistan for well over a decade. so what's their strategy to win? british defensing is michael fallon joins the conversation coming up on "morning joe." ♪

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>> my administration has demanded that all members of nato finally meet their full and fair financial obligations. as a result of this insistence, billions of dollars more have begun to pour into nato. in fact, people are shocked.

but billions and becomes of dollars more coming in from countries that, in my opinion, would not have been paying so quickly. >> oh. joining us now british defense secretary sir michael fallon. he is in washington to meet with his american counterpart defense secretary james mattis. do we have a fact check, sir, are becomes of dollars coming in? >> yes, we estimate nato spending is up by around $46 billion. 22 of the 29 members of nato have started to increase their budgets. we all agreed, three years ago, at the summit back in wales that we would pete the 2% target. britain does meet the 2% target. like the president of the united states, we have been encouraging other countries now to do the same. >> there you go. >> what is the greatest challenge facing the leaders of the g20 summit today? what are you most concerned

about? what is is the prime minister most concerned about? >> we are worried about the terrorism, the attacks on our own homeland,we are concerned the continuing aggression from russia, which we see in the ukraine, we're concerned on this leader follow through to the campaign on iraq and syria against daesh trim errorism the are. and we are concerned at the latest nuclear testing in north korea. all of these things we will be reviewing with secretary mattis at the pentagon this morning. >> your response? >> do you feel the promises president trump made at the same time he is meeting with president putin and nato is essentially to oppose, do you feel comfortable with the rhetoric, i don't mean to create an international incident here, obviously, there some tension between what donald trump said about nato and the way he's

approached vladimir putin? >> well, nato the a defensive alliance. it's important to make that clear. and i was reassured to hear the president yesterday pay proper tribute to the collective nature after nato's defense, if one member is attacked, all the other members come to its aid. that's the article 5 of nato. now, we have to have a relationship with russia. i am very pleased that meeting is going ahead between your president and vladimir putin. it's important to have dialogue with russia, but we should do so warily, what russia did in the ukraine is not acceptable t. war in syria is not acceptable. this has to be dialogue the motto should be engage but beware. >> mr.ing is, willie geist. i want to ask you about afghanistan if i could, you committed the uk to sending 100 more troops in a non-combat role. our defense secretary james mattis said we will need a

couple thousand more from the united states to stabilize afghanistan. just this week in the u.s., an american soldier, a 19-year-old was killed. it got buried in all this other knees we were talking about, a 19-year-old, he was 3-years-old after we went into afghanistan, led by the united states. how much longer will it be for the uk, young men, to send men and with him over to die, how will we know when the war is won? smr well, it's been a very long campaign. there have been sacrifice, i pa pay tribute by the sacrifices by the united states, as there has been british lives lost there as well. but we think it's important to stay the course in afghanistan. there are transnational terror zprups that can export terror from afghanistan. there is a faraj ill democracy that's asked for our help, a battle in the end that can be won over by local afghan force,

it's important to support them. we are increasing our training and more work on counter terrorism, stiffening up the afghan air force. we are encouraging other allies to do the same. >> david ignacious. >> sir, michael. i want to ask you, we have been watching the morning the pictures of chancellor angela merkel in hamburg, seeing her as a new leader of the west and i have the question of whether britain is going to continue to play the kind of strong role as partner of the u.s., especially the defense patterns that it has for so long in the past. i'm sure you hear the worries that britain's contribution on defense issues is becoming less ro bust than it was. how do you answer that? >> well, let me answerer it directly. you've seen chancellor merkel, but she's hosting this summit. she chairs it. she is leading this particular summit. but you should be in no doubt about hoour commitment of the

defense and defense of the west. we are spending the 2% na nato demands. we are reinvesting in our forces. we sailed a few architect carrier for the first time, a few weeks ago, we're investing in f-35 aircraft to fly off that aircraft carrier. we are purchasing maritime patrol aircraft and new armored vehicles. we are investing in our armed forces and, secondly, with we are alongside the united states in these operations where it matters. in afghanistan, in iraq, flying missions in syria, and our air force is contributed old by the united states the second largest number of strikes against daesh terrorism and we're leading in nato. with elead the task force this year. we've deployed one of the battle grow u.p.s. to estonia, a part of the battle group up in polandch we are flying down in romania. so we are stepping up internationally and making sure

that we have there, we are alongside the united states in these different theaters and operations. >> all right. british defense secretary, sir michael fallon, thank you so much for being with us this morning. up next, congressman michael mccaul briefed donald trump on russian hacking before the narcotic racing some why didn't his message stick? the homeland chairman joins us next. keep it right here on "morning joe." maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... with reduced redness,... thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts...

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in anticipation of this important meeting and our time here together, i wanted to present you with a little gift, which represents what president obama and vice president biden and i have been saying, and that is we want to reset our relationship. >> let's do this together. >> so we will do it together. >> that was the obama administration's attempt at a reset eight years ago. many of the players have changed but the game remains the same. joining us now, republican congressman michael mccaul of texas. it is really quite interesting what we're going to be watching today at 10:00 a.m. eastern time at this meeting. what do you hope will come out of this meeting? >> a couple things. many issues on the table, what

russia is doing in syria. i think north korea, the meeting with the president of china will be very important to leverage the north koreans to stop their nuclear program, which will be a very difficult task. and then ukraine, i just came back from the region in ukraine, where there's russian aggression. they annexed crimea and there are cyberattacks in ukraine on a daily basis to destabilize their government just like they try to destabilize the elections all throughout europe. so i think there are a lot of media issues on the table, the president wants to reach out to them, but he needs to be firm with this man who doesn't always have our best interests at heart. >> you named three really important issues. what about russian meddling in the election? >> it's not on their agenda, but i think the president should bring it up. it is the elephant in the room. it's an important issue to the american people and it's

important for the american president to raise it with him, to let him know that we know it happened and we're not going the stand for, that there will be consequences. when i got briefed before the elections by the obama administration, i urged them to call out russia and take action. it didn't really happen. i hope that could happen in this meeting. and also in the congress, mika, we have a russia sanctions bill that i helped to get passed in the next week or two when we get back. >> russian president vladimir putin has an op-ed in a german newspaper and in it he denounces the rampage by cyber criminals, hacker groups, and all those who encroach on the privacy of individuals or the sovereignty of states by using cutting-edge technologies. what's yor reaction to that? >> a bit of hypocrisy.

i see russia and of course china's involved in this as well, but russia's one of the major offenders of sovereignty of nations both in this campaign, disinformation warfare they have in elections to cyber warfare to, you know, they literally shut down the government in ukraine last month. they shut down astone ya. they're continuing to sort of display their capabilities both in stealing intellectual property, espionage, and cyber warfare. i think that should be a topic of discussion as well. >> rich on vladimir putin's part given if just a few weeks ago he called these hackers patriots. >> exactly. >> let me ask you about a subject we talked about earlier in the show and that's about looking ahead, because there are reports about russian hackers infiltrating or. >>ing around nuclear sites here in the u.s. obviously power grids here in the u.s. and of course elections in the future. what is being done -- obviously the president is not talking about it the way we would hope

he would, but what is being done within washington to safeguard some of these issues? >> both the dhs and others have -- i read the article, we'd been briefed on this threat. it's very disturbing. but i think, mika, it demonstrates how aggressive russia has become now not only in eastern europe but now in the united states trying to not only med until our elections but also nuclear facilities. then finally, you know, there's a report that 150 new russian spies may have been dispatched to the united states. it's going to continue. i didn't see it with president obama. i'm hopeful that this president will begin to raise the issue.

>> have you seen any other evidence at all that any other state actors were involved in the hacking attempts in 2016? >> certainly wikileaks dumped the information out there, but the intelligence reports i received in briefings very clear and convincing evidence it was a nation-state attack by russia and i don't think you can really dispute that. i think the dni, cia director, everybody who's had the briefing is consistent in saying that. >> congressman michael mccaul, thank you very much. >> thank you. >> as we close out this week from mark halperin and david ignatius, final thoughts. david, you go first. >> we're just heading in a few minutes toward a meeting that

really matters. it's one that donald trump has been pointing towards since the campaign. he say he wants to improve relations with russia, he wants to meet with vladimir putin. here it is. what's he going to do with it? is he going to be tough, accommodating? vladimir putin has been trying to come in from the cold for years since the invasion of crimea. here's his moment to come in from the cold. what's he going to do with that? this is a meeting we'll be talking about i'm sure next week and the weeks after. >> mark? >> e just met. we saw the photo-op of the handshake between them and, you know, this will be slowed down like it's a critter film all weekend we'll be talking about not just the symbolism but whatever substance we can learn that they talk about and as david said this is one of the core things the president talked about as a candidate, so now's his chance to show he can execute. >> what are you looking for, phillip? >> exactly right. donald trump, the deal makeer,

i'm going to reach out, we'll have a better relationship with russia. we'll see. >> paul said it's supposed to be 30 minutes. he bets it will be longer and that's the easiest way for them to say it was a good meeting. >> 30 minutes for them to talk about themselves. that does it for thus morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. >> thanks, mika. good morning. i'm stephanie ruhle. we have breaking news starting with the handshake. president trump and vladimir putin finally face-to-face, the most anticipated meeting of world leaders in a generation sitting down together this very hour. and the stakes could not be higher. north korea, syria, and the fight against terrorism worldwide, huge questions surround this. >> will you once and for all definitively say that russia interfered with the 2016 election? >> i think it was russia. it could have been other people and other countries. >> set for 45 minutes from now the two are finally face-to-face.