the state department. we agreed to set up a working level group to begin to explore this framework agreement around the cyber issue and this issue of noninterference. those will be ongoing with various staff levels. [ inaudible ] >> well, it will be out of the state department and the national security advisors office. as to the nature of the two hours and 15 minutes, first, let me characterize the meeting was very constructive. the two leaders, i would say, connected very quickly. there was a very clear, positive chemistry between the two. i think, again, and i think the positive thing i observed and i have had many, many meetings with president putin before.

there was not a lot of relitigating of the past. i think both of the leaders feel like there's a lot of things in the past that both of us are unhappy about. we are unhappy, they are unhappy. i think the perspective of both of them is, this is a really porpt relationship. two largest nuclear powers in the world. it's an important relationship. how do we start making this work? how do we live with one another? how do we work with one another. we have to find a way to go forward. i think that was -- that was expressed over and over, multiple times. i think by both presidents, this strong desire. it is a complicated relationship today because there are so many issues on the table. i think, one of the reasons it took a long time is because once they met and got acquainted with one another quickly, there was so much to talk about.

all these issues, just everything got touched on to one degree or another. i think there was just such a level of engagement in exchange, neither one wanted to stop. several times, i had to remind the president, people were sticking their heads in the door and i think they sent in the first lady at one point to see if they can get us out of there. that didn't work, either. >> is that true? >> yes, it's true. but it was we went another hour after she came in to see us. clearly, she failed. but, i think, what i can describe is it was an important meeting. there's so much for us to talk about. it was a good start. i would tell you, we spent a very, very lengthy period on

syria. it was announced, but also where we go in trying to get much greater clarity around how we see this playing out and how russia sees it playing out. where do we share a common view and where do we have a difference? do we have the same objectives in mind? i will tell you, by and large, our objectives are exactly the same. how we get there, we each have a view. there's a lot more commonality to that than there are differences. we want to build on the commonality and we spent a lot of time talking about next steps. then where there's differences, we have more work to get together and understand. maybe they have the right approach and we have the wrong approach. so, there was a substantial amount of time spent on syria. just because we have had so much activity going on with it. >> secretary, was the president

unequivocal in the view? did he offer to produce evidence to convince mr. putin? >> the russians have asked for proof and evidence. i'll leave that to the intelligence community to address the answer to that question. again, i think -- i think the president, at this point, he pressed him and then felt like at this point, talk about how to go forward. i think that was the right place to spend our time, rather than spending a lot of time having a disagreement that everybody knows we have a disagreement. >> thank you very much. have a great -- >> that was secretary of state, rex tillerson, giving reporters a briefing about what they spoke about, what donald trump and vladimir putin spoke about in their first face-to-face. it was only supposed to last 30 minutes. it lasted two hours and about ten minutes, considerably longer. secretary tillerson saying the two men got on well and that at

one point, even the first lady had to remind the president it was time to go. they talked about north korea. they talked about syria, a potential cease-fire and notably, they talked about russia and the hacking into the u.s. election. that is what president trump opened with. rex tillerson saying the president repeatedly went back to this, but, ultimately, that the issue was intractable and the two leaders and two countries with the most nukes in the world needed to find a way to move forward. there was no use in relitigating the past said secretary rex tillerson. we have a whole lot of great folks to break this down. kelly o'donnell is in hamburg, germany. christopher hill an ambassador to iraq. david ignatius, michael schmidt reporter with new york times, heidi, a senior political reporter with usa today and

msnbc political analyst. could not have asked for a better team. kelly o'donnell, let's start with you in hamburg. the president pushing vladimir putin on the issue of hacking, but then again, it doesn't sound like there's going to be more sanctions put in place, at least as of now. he did mention the sanctions going through in congress. they are held up in the house at the moment. rex tillerson, repeatedly saying the two leaders needed to find a way to move forward. >> reporter: it was striking that that was the first thing, according to secretary tillerson that president trump raised with vladimir putin. and what we do know, based on what secretary tillerson told reporters gathered not far from here is there will be ongoing conversations at a staff level. no immediate plans for another presidential level, putin-trump, trump-putin meeting. the issue of interference in the election will be something they work on out of the state department and their counter

parts. interestingly, we have heard from the russian side, the foreign minister lavrov takes a different view of what happened there and referred to cyber hacking as something where there was more agreement and the president raised the issue of some in the united states who think that perhaps there was some russian connection there, very much soft pedalling it and describing it differently than secretary tillerson did. as we listen to secretary tillerson's voice, this is a man who was in business for a long time, ceo, a matter of months as a diplomat and he had a very measured tone. very out of character, compared to his boss, president trump, in terms of talking about these things. there was a lot of nuance from secretary tillerson on the sensitivities of the relationship on assessing how they interacted, saying they had a personal chemistry. my favorite is about melania

trump being sent in and secretary tillerson saying she failed, his words, to break up the meeting. hot spots from syria to north korea and the relationship of the nations going forward. katy? >> we are getting he said/she said. lavrov, the minister of russia saying that the president, himself, accepted that russia did not hack into the u.s. elections, saying he accepted -- he accepted vladimir putin's assurance. a senior administration official is pushing back on that, saying that is not accurate. obviously, we are going to get spin from both sides on this. who do the american people believe? >> well, i think as a journalist, i'm going to listen to the different accounts. we'll try to do more reporting. it's not unusual after a private meeting whether it's diplomatic

or labor negotiations you get different accounts of what happened. clearly, the subject was raised that speaks to the american concern that trump might have gone to the meeting and said nothing. exactly how hard he phrased it, we'll have to do more reporting. in general, this was a broad, significant range of issues that was discussed. donald trump talked all through the campaign, became president and wanting a better relationship with russia. heavily criticized for that and he had an opportunity, from what we have been told, to discuss the range of issues that have become very troublesome between the two countries. in some instances, seemingly dangerous. so, that's my first take away. this is a meeting that goes to the heart of what's been wrong in the global range of

u.s.-russian issues. >> david, you are right to say he spoke of this on the campaign trail. he said we need a better relationship and told supporters he would be the one to do that and he would get along with putin and putin would respect him. he had nothing but warm words for him throughout the campaign when he was quick to attack absolutely everybody else. i found it notable, tillerson said there's no use relitigating the past. the issue of russian hacking is stra intractable and the two leaders with the most nukes in the world, need to find a way to move forward. >> in a sense, i wouldn't believe anything that vladimir putin said about the activities of the russian intelligence service. ex-spies don't tell you their playbook. we have a special council, robert mueller, conducting a thorough investigation using all his powers to find out what

happened. that's what we ought to trust. i thought it was interesting that putin didn't seek to relitigate his set of issues, his critique of u.s. behavior. some people thought he would go into the meeting, sit down and say obama did this wrong, this wrong and this wrong, go through the list. he, apparently, didn't do this. there's been a lot of prep work done here, particularly by secretary tillerson and lavrov. the agreement on syria was basically reached a week ago. i learned about it during my own reporting in syria. so, this has been carefully prepared. we'll have to see what more detail there is. >> an issue they could trout out after the meeting to say we found common ground. before you go, one last question from you. if donald trump raised the issue of russian hacking, but then didn't bring up more consequences, how is that going

to play in the united states? how is that going to play among our allies? how is that going to play back in russia? what does it mean if there's nothing further the u.s. does to take action against the stake that our intelligence community has said, did try to interfere in this election and will try to do it again? >> there's obviously deep suspicion in the united states about what happened during the campaign, about whether trump campaign associates had contact with the russians. again, i'd underline, our investigation is the one being conducted by robert mueller. when he reaches conclusions, there may be additional sanctions. what was important to me today is so far as we know, we haven't heard the end of the illerson briefing. as far as we know, the sanctions that president obama imposed in december, in retaliation for russia's actions, expelling the

russian diplomats and closing the two facilities, those have not been reversed. i think that is the important point. the sanctions imposed by obama have not, so far as we know, been alter reversed by the trump administration. >> david, i know you have to go. thank you for joining us. mike schmidt, what were your first impressions? >> the question is, will anything ever happen to russia about what happened in the election? the democrats certainly are the ones that are most interested in doing something to russia. they don't really have the power to do that. does that mean this issue will drag on for many years to come, that nothing will happen to russia because of it and it will be something that the next democratic president picks up. it's interesting in that regard. it's interesting to hear tillerson say the russians asked for intelligence about how the hack had happened and what the evidence was and tillerson said he was going to leave it to the intelligence community to send that information.

i'm not sure that the intelligence community would send their secret information about what they know to the russians. there is a very details public report that the russians could read online. i wasn't sure what to make of that or if it would change anything. >> ambassador hill, there's a lot of analysis on president trump and there's talk out there about how his tweets are a good indication of how to manipulate him, what his mind set is, we saw this during his trip to saudi arabia where he was flattered, his image on buildings and poland where he was given a warm reception. did we see vladimir putin read president trump as somebody he needs to flatter to have a warm relationship with in order to get what he wants out of this relationship, which, ultimately, would be less sanctions and less interference from the u.s. into the spheres that russia wants to

control around the world, specifically asia? >> i think it's clear president putin has taken his measure of our president and it will, indeed, imploy flattery. i would like to emphasize, i think this meeting, which seems to be a successful meeting is successful for rex tillerson. you don't just pull a rabbit out of the hat, you spend weeks stuffing the rabbit in the hat. clearly, this is tillerson's work on the syrian deal. i am not surprised president trump raised the hacking issue. i'm not at all surprised putin said, what hacking, we had nothing to do with that. nor am i surprised that putin because i have heard russians or soviets, if you have proof, give it to me and i'll track it down. that was a favorite line in serbia. all of this is according to script. the fact that secretary of state was able to get something done

on syria, obviously, in his own words, we have to see if this will all go through, i think is important. a little disappointing, though, although, not surprising in another sense that russia continues to do nothing about north korea. after all, this is a country that is leveling nuclear weapons at us and we have a right to be concerned about this. this isn't a crazy, distant problem. this is coming right at us. putin ought to wake up on that. >> tillerson said the two countries expressed concern, but looking at it in two separate ways. back to the cease-fire, what would a successful cease-fire need to look like? we had richard engel on a couple moments ago talking how if it was a cease-fire around the country of assad, it wouldn't mean much. does the cease-fire neez to be in an area that is currently under siege and being battled among the rebels and isis?

>> i would say more broadly that a successful cease-fire has to be a part of a process that leads to some kind of successful agreement. a cease-fire for cease-fire sake is bound to bound to unfold and that's been the case scores of times in syria. so, i think what was more important about what tillerson was saying was the fact they are reaching an agreement with the russians on what should be the political arrangement going forward. once people understand what the political arrangements are, they are more inclined to accept a cease-fire. the fact they have started a cease-fire in a place that's less contentious, i don't think is surprising. you try to kind of make sure the cease-fire holds, while you get the political process going forward. that's probably the best way, the best place to try to holds that cease-fire.

we'll have to see what they have politically. frankly, in the context of this hideous story of syria, this was fairly good news by its standards. let's see if the u.s. and russia can do something. i think the jury is out at this point. >> heidi, we have to talk about body language. the president and vladimir putin shaking hands a number of times in the meeting before the meeting earlier today, this morning, our time, the president patted vladimir putin on the arm, then patted him on the back. we'll get that video up for you in a moment. heidi, what do you make of the warmth that seemed to be displayed between the two leaders? >> i think the most important question is not what we saw on camera, but whether that warmth extended to that discussion over russians intervention. i think it's great and means a lot. it's the first thing trump brought up and tillerson's indication is it was a robust conversation but tillerson made

clear there are not going to be consequences. it was a week ago trump was bashing obama for doing nothing about russian intervention. the question going forward, now, is this really going to be a deteernt because it's not just about consequences for what they did in the past, it's whether we are able to stop them from going forward and doing worse things. their fingerprints are in france. we have an election coming up in germany. based on what we know in the u.s., they tried to reach our voter systems in 39 states according to our intelligence agencies. we know what their m.o. is based on ukraine. they hacked into voting systems and tried to throw computer totals there in a specified region. this could reek havoc on election systems in the future if the russians don't view this interaction as a deterrent, if this is going to be the extent of punishment from this administration. i think body language is

important. was he serious and meaningful when he said to putin, look at his eyes and say, do not do this. cease and desist. >> i have a bit of whiplash. yesterday, halle jackson stood up during that in warsaw, poland and asked donald trump to say, yes or no, does he believe russia interfered in the election as it has intelligence committee concluded. he said probably, but it could have been others. why would he equivocate on that national stage yesterday and today, starting off this meeting by saying that russia interfered with the election? there seems to be disconnect there, some room for trying to understand what exactly is going on. >> who knows why. we are always asking that. let's talk about the effects of it. we already see russia spinning the conversation that trump accepted putin's contention that

he didn't intervene in the election. when you are going into a meeting and you denigrate your intelligence agencies and attack a fellow american who is, by the way, john podesta and a victim of russian hacking the morning before the meeting, the question is, what kind of message does that send to russia along with the warm body language? time will tell whether this was effective. >> heidi, michael, david, kelly, ambassador hill, thank you for being here for a well rounded discussion on what exactly happened in that meeting and what comes next. and, coming up next, we are going to have a deeper look inside that meeting, once again. we are going to talk to a couple people who know this best. what happened between that known master manipulator face-to-face with the self-proclaimed master negotiator. here is the president shortly after that meeting wrapped up. >> thank you very much. we appreciate it. president putin and i have been

discussing various things. i think it's going very well. we have had very, very good talks. we are going to have a talk now. obviously, that will continue. but we look forward to a lot of positive things happening. for russia, for the united states and for everybody concerned. it's an honor to be with you. thank you. ♪ [brother] any last words?

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protesters and police are clashing in hamburg as thousands

of activists return to the city streets today after 12,000 demonstrators converged for an event they call, welcome to hell. hundreds of officers injured and 40 were arrested as it has protests against the g-20 turned violence. keir simmons has been in the thick of it and still is. keir, what's going on? >> reporter: for the last hour now, we have seen these water cannon in almost constant use. you can see there that they are firing on protesters who built a barricade across the street here in the foregrounds. if i could get the camera man to go this way, they have set some of these barricades on fire so as night falls here, this is becoming a pitch battle, really, between riot police and large numbers of protesters and

demonstrators. you have to say, katy, riots are in this stage in this german city where they are trying to hold the g-20. managing to, in most -- sorry, miguel caught on that barrier. they are managing due to mostly. we have seen official convoys attacked by protesters. we don't think there were delegates from the g-20 inside and we have seen them prevented from moving. so, we are just getting closer now to give you a better view of this -- this confrontation. the police just seem to be holding the line. as you can see, protesters throwing anything they can find, mostly bottles and bricks. what they are doing, the police, katy, they are -- okay, we have to make sure we don't get soaked. >> watch out for that water, keir. >> reporter: yeah. what they are doing, katy, they

appear to know who the ring leaders are and sporadically, groups of riot police are pushing into the ground, grabbing someone and then pulling them out. katy, i want to show you something else. if we spin in this direction because this is a big -- this is a big confrontation now because there is -- there are also riot police and water cannon in this direction. miguel, let geese this way a little bit. in that direction, there are further clashes between riot police and demonstrators along the street here. so, yeah -- >> keir, let me ask you a question about the protests. >> reporter: as this turns into evening, it gets -- >> gets hairier. >> reporter: what do you want to ask me? >> you have a bunch of bow zoes behind you. the demonstrators there, the ones clashing with the police, are those anarchists or ones who are trying to get out a message

and are the ones getting out a message being overshadowed? seems like the answer to that is yes, by these guys trying to get into it with cops. >> reporter: yeah. look, i mean, what is the message from this, katy? i guess, if you are an anarchist, the message is you can take on the authorities, but, i think the kinds of groups that have been here through the day, with other messages, environmental messages, messages for refugees, that's a loss as we continue to see these running battles. if we can get miguel to look closer, the police are moving in now to move that barricade even while protesters are throwing bricks and bottles at them, again. so, that's an example of what i was talking about, katy, the way they are sending in groups of ten or 20 riot police to

intervene in what's happening here. they will pull that barrier away and then they will retreat again and allow the water cannon to do their work. they kind of gentle after that tear gas is in the air. that, what you can hear there, those explosions are coming from the protesters. we think they are -- you can see in this direction, those are, um, those are some kind of explosive device that are being thrown by the protesters, maybe flairs. >> any serious injuries out there, keir? >> reporter: something of that nature. can you say that again? >> any serious injuries? >> reporter: well the police are saying today they had about 160 of their officers injured. it's harder to know how many demonstrators have been injured. i have seen demonstrators injured. i saw one young woman now fall over and was in tears.

i saw already today a policeman drive into a protester and knock him to the floor. that looked painful. we have seen people stretch off. there already injuries among the protesters. the organizers say there are. you have probably seen as we are walking around, there are paramedics around trying to help those who are caught up in this, as these extraordinary scenes on the streets of hamburg continue to play out. >> aluteally, they are shutting down operation, regular business and transportation in this area. where are the other peaceful protesters who are -- and you can see riot police again. where are the peaceful protesters in relation to you? >> reporter: about two or three protesters just threw flairs at

police. if we go this way, you can see another confrontation. another girl on the floor there. let's go here. there's one girl on the floor that's been hurt. paramedics i have been talking about. let's go down this way again. there's a water cannon coming over here. we are going to try to get to the side of the road. it's hard to know where to go because, as you can see, i hope you are getting a picture of this, the police are just moving in groups the same way the protesters are. what we can see is one under arrest. so, one -- one of these, it looks like one of the black members, since he is wearing black, taken away. as i mentioned, they seem to know -- they seem to know who they want to target. they may know this guy. it seems as if they do and they move in when they spot someone

and then pull them away like that. then the protesters throw bottles and bricks at them as the riot police take away, you know, one of their members, i guess. >> yeah. watch out for those projectiles. stay safe out there, my friend. nbc's keir simmons in hamburg, germany. we are going to keep an eye on this. i want to bring in ryan crocker who served as ambassador to syria, lebanon and pakistan. john finer, john kerry as well. also, ben, author of "fragile empire" how russia fell in and out of love with vladimir putin. i want to play another moment from secretary tillerson and the meeting of donald trump and vladimir putin. take a listen. >> with regard to the interference in the election, i think the president took note of actions that have been discussed by the congress. most recently, additional

sanctions that had been voted out of the senate to make it clear as to the seriousness of the issue. i think what the two presidents, i think, rightly focused on is how do we move forward. how do we move forward from here? it's not clear to me that we will ever come to some agreed upon resolution of that question between the two nations. the question is, what do we do now? i think the relationship and president made this clear as well. it's too important and it's too important to not find a way to move forward. >> john, as a state department official under john kerry, what do you think when you hear this new secretary of state say it's time to move forward? >> i think the most important thing about his comments and the reason why i think people will take issue with them in the context of what otherwise seems to have been a successful meeting is what happened in the election in 2016 is not just about the past. in other words, moving forward

requires us to understand what happened in 2016. it's going to happen again in 2018 in the congressional elections and 2020 in the next presidential election. the experts who looked at this see that russia is continuing to use these tactics both in the united states and in the elections being held by our partners and allies in europe. to say we should just relegate the issue is not really a correct understanding of the national security significance it has to the future. >> ben, sergey lavrov came out and said president trump accepted vladimir putin's statement they did not interfere. a white house official pushed back on that. how is this meeting going to be playing in russia? will it help vladimir putin's already high approval ratings out there? >> firstly, you can't have polling in a society with no free media where people are intimidated. we have no idea what vladimir

putin's so-called approval ratings are. the most important thing to remember about what's taken place is two leaders hopelessly unmatched in experience. vladimir putin first started meeting western leaders in the 1990s. he met ronald reagan who was in his retirement. he met margaret thatcher. he's met three generations of western leaders. he's met jimmy carter. he's met both clintons, obama, of course and you compare this to trump. now, let's look at how mr. lavrov matches up against mr. tillerson. mr. tillerson has very, very narrow experience. he's been minister since 2004. hopelessly unmatched levels

there. also, the operations. the kremlin team, for all its flaws, for all its corruption, is a team that's been working more or less successfully now for a considerable amount of time whereas the white house operation is, shall we say, clearly got teething problems, still. >> new to the game, i think we could say that. ben, every u.s. president or everyone in modern history has tried to reset relations with russia. we saw it with george w. bush trying to look into the eyes and soul of vladimir putin at the beginning of his administration to find he was brutish later on. obama tried to reset relations with med ef and was not able to do so. they had a frosty relationship. everybody wants to make sure two

super nuclear powers can get along. do you think it's something donald trump can change or is he in for the same rude awakening everyone before him experienced? >> what you are looking at here is the first western leader to try to establish a close partnership on terrorism with vladimir putin was tony blair in 2001. the reason it keeps failing is, at the end of the day, russia's strategic culture and its strategic claims on territories and countries around it are simply contradictory with what the united states and the european union has as core interest. >> hitherto is the important word there. >> that's the operative word. now, whether or not donald trump wants to roll back on that or change that is something that vladimir putin will be assessing. there's a much more important thing which putin will be trying to work out now, which is how

able, how functioning is donald trump as a president. how capable is he of delivering? and he's made several statements since the election indicating that he doesn't believe that trump is going to be as capable of transforming the relationship as a lot of the russian propaganda coverage might have suggested. >> important to remember that donald trump's hands are tied to a degree because of congress. and congress wants to see stronger sanctions against russia. that being said, the bill that would do that is being held up in the house right now. ambassador crocker, you heard ben talking about the two different interests between the european union, america at least before this and vladimir putin on the subject of fighting terrorism. we heard of a potential cease-fire in syria today. what are the interests of russia and syria and are they counter

or in line with our interests in syria? >> they are very much counter to our interests. the good news is, there's real continuity in foreign policy between the obama and trump administrations. the bad news is that includes pandering to the russians. i remember all too clearly, when the syrians, the syrian regime would dump barrel bombs on civilian aleppo killing hundreds and the american reaction, for secretary kerry to call foreign minister lavrov. so, you have to understand, the russians are not our friends, certainly not in syria. they benefit from the cease-fire because now they are linked with the united states working for something good. the cease-fire isn't going to hold. but, everyone, in and out of syria is going to see, once again, the u.s. following the

russian playbook. that is doing this huge damage throughout the middle east. >> ambassador, you have the experience in that part of the world, the middle east, what would you do? >> i would follow the advice right now of our secretary of defense, about ten days ago, he said there is absolutely no way we are going to get dragged into the syrian civil war. look, i have some experience with these things. i was in lebanon for six years. the lebanese civil war, on a much smaller scale, with much less regional or international involvement, raged for 15 years before it was finally settled by a syrian division moving into bobda the lebanese president. we have a lot to go through ahead of this before we can conceive what the outlines of a permanent settlement might be. and, in the meantime, all of the actors will try to play us,

unfortunately, with a lot of success. >> brian crocker, former u.s. ambassador to syria, iraq, afghanistan, lebanon and pakistan, former chief of staff, secretary of state, john kerry and ben, thank you very much for this robust conversation. former president obama pushed several russian spies out of the country before leaving office. it appears russia is working to replace that. that's next. for your heart... your joints... or your digestion... so why wouldn't you take something for the most important part of you... your brain. with an ingredient originally found in jellyfish, prevagen is now the number one selling brain health supplement in drug stores nationwide. prevagen. the name to remember.

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let's go back to the streets of hamburg where something is burning. keir simmons is there right now. keir, what is that? what's going on? >> reporter: okay, the streets in this city where the police have completely lost control. streets where there are fires ablaze there and further along there. it is quite stunning to see when you think that the leaders of the world, the 20 most powerful people in the world, if you like, are meeting in hamburg while this is playing out. you can see that demonstrators, protesters said earlier, call them rioters, running around, setting light to things and they are grabbing -- if with we turn this way, you are going to be able to see behind me in this direction. you can see here, they are grabbing bits of concrete and bricks, things to throw at the

police. and in the distance is the police line. we are now, it's such a place that actually, it is impossible to see the police line from here. i'm standing by bonfires set by protesters. you can't even see the police. at some stage, if you stay with us, you are going to see it. there you go. there's a guy there preparing -- preparing ammunition to direct at the police. so, you know, if you stick with us, at some stage, i can't say when, the police will move again into this area and attempt to arrest people. they have the water cannon to put out these blazes. we have seen them do it once further up, but, well, they aren't here right now. they aren't doing that right now and that says something, i think, about the stage we are now at. there are now riots on the

streets of hamburg, even while the g-20 is meeting. >> keir, again, what are they trying to accomplish? what do they want? >> reporter: well, they want this, actually, is what many of them want. i watched protesters embrace each other, fist bump because this is one of the things they want. they want to try and create just for a moment, i think, places where the authorities have no control because when you speak to them and when we try to speak to them, many of them don't want to speak to us. when you do get a chance to speak to one, they say, look, we don't accept the idea of authority. we don't accept capitalism. we don't accept the 20 most powerful people in the world should be allowed, as they see it, to gather together and carve up the world. that's their point of view. this is their way of expressing

it, whatever you think. the guy walking past here with something. >> some basket or something. >> reporter: it's chaos, pure chaos. >> keir simmons, thank you. the leaders of the g-20 represent two-thirds of the population. four fifths of the gross domestic product and three quarters of the world trade. this is all happening, not very far, but might as well be a world away from where the g-20 leaders are watching a concert right now. you can see president trump with first lady melania trump alongside the new french president, macron. merkel is behind them. these are the leaders, the anti-globalists are trying to get the ear of loudly with fires, with bricks, with clashes, but ultimately, they might as well, again, be a world away from where these leaders

are meeting. they are barely seeing what's going on on the other side of hamburg because the police are keeping them so far away. keir simmons, thank you very much. meanwhile, you very much. meanwhile, secretary of state rex tillerson revealed a short time ago that president trump opened his highly anticipated meeting with russian president vladimir putin by bringing up alleged russian interference during last year's election. >> the president pressed president putin on more than one occasion about russian involvement. president putin denied such involvement as i think he has in the past. the two leaders agreed though that this is a substantial hindrance in the ability of us to move the russian/u.s. relationship forward. >> tillerson alsole says t says leaders agreed to look for ways to find out who was responsible for cyberattacks and how to hold them accountable. joining us now to talk about

this is author of "the plot to ha hack america." malcolm, we will be keeping those images of the concert up on our screen while we have our discussion. rex tillerson saying that they would work together to find out who initiates, who launches cyberattacks. >> well, i think that is brilliant because he can point to something actually coming out of this substantial, an agreement with the russians. and i think that they should hire o.j. simpson as a consultants and see if he will help them find the real kirl because we already know who carried out the cyber attention. what this did right there is it cut the legs out from under the president of the united states. the russians now know and have confirmed and are sitting in a private meeting verifying that the president of the united states does not believe anything the u.s. intelligence community tells him.

>> let's play devil's advocate is f for a second. lets take rex tillerson at his word which is that these two leaders who are in charge of the majority of the nukes in the world need to find a way to get along, they need to find a reset, they need to move past this. this is as rex tillerson puts it an intractable issue. we have to move forward. >> and i think that that is great. because between any of our strategic opponents is also a good thing for the united states. but the question is will we go as the united states of democratic values, the united states that understands when it's attacked on a broad scale by a foreign adversary, are we just going to roll over. if these things are done, washington will play to that strategic advantage they have been given. if it is an intractable issue, and i take rex tillerson at his word, but the foreign minister lavrov gave a different readout

on. >> do you think there is some gray area there, that it might not be what either of those men have described it as? >> maybe it was halfway. maybe it was brought up once and not several times. that being said, the united states needs to come from a position of strength when dealing with russia. we've seen that today whether that is actually -- >> what should the president be doing? >> well, the president should certainly be representing the united states from certainly democratic values, which is where we always started. and i don't on think that is it. i think the russians see a guy that they can cut deals with now. and whether those deals hurt american -- the american form of democracy or advances russia's form of and you to being accuracy and you to being accuracy is the question at hand. >> so is the better approach to have the president come outto b to being accuracy is the question at hand. >> so is the better approach to have the president come out with sanctions that would cut to the heart of things and then have no way to move forward to help find a way to potentially fight isis, to help find a way to contain

north korea even though it didn't seem like they got much progress on that today? is that the better way to do things? >> no, it's not a question of whether the president of the united states should constrain himself by putting on harder sanctions or not cooperating with isis. russia has its own agenda here and quite honkly, they don't care what our agenda is so long as we meet their goals as they check them off. today we heard this announcement about the possibility of a cease-fire in southwest syria. nowhere where isis is. that supports the existence of the regime even though secretary tillerson said the continuation of the assad regime in government should go away. >> which doesn't make much sensitive when you put those two things up next to each other. malcolm, i have like 13 more questions, but i'm being told that we have to go. thank you very much for being here. always appreciate your insight. next, we have one more thing for you. how some back and forth today on

twitter created some 2016 deja vu. so that's the idea. what do you think? hate to play devil's advocate but... i kind of feel like it's a game changer. i wouldn't go that far. are you there? he's probably on mute. yeah... gary won't like it. why? because he's gary. (phone ringing) what? keep going! yeah... (laughs) (voice on phone) it's not millennial enough. there are a lot of ways to say no. thank you so much. thank you! so we're doing it. yes! start saying yes to your company's best ideas. let us help with money and know-how, so you can get business done. american express open.

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i don't think anybody knows it was russia that broke into the dnc. it also could be somebody sitting on their bed that weighs 4 o00 pounds. anytime anything wrong happens, they like too say the russians. she doesn't know if it's the russians doing the say the russ. she doesn't know if it's the russians doing the hacking. >> i think it was russia, but i think we also get hacked by other countries and other people.

>> you can talk all you want about russia, which was all a fake news fabricated deal. >> memory lane. that right there, donald trump down playing russian hacking often blaming democrats for always reviving russia. so today we have one more thing for you and it's one of the president's favorite topics. clinton'se-mails. he tweeted everyone is talking about j john podesta refused to give the server to the cia. disgraceful. for the record, podesta chaired clinton's campaign, not the dnc committee. podesta is on a road trip and responded by tweeting himself saying pulled in for a pit stop in west virginia to see that our whack job potus is tweeting about me at the g-20. get a grip. the russians committed a crime when they stole my e-mails to help get you elected president.

he went on throwing more shade but ended his tweet storm with, quote, dude, get your head in the game. you're representing the u.s. at the g-20. american politics, always subtle, always so dignified. and that is where we will leave it for this friday. i'm done with this. ali velshi, you have a good show i imagine. >> i'll try and make it subtle and dignified. you have a fantastic evening and weekend. hard to imagine hire stakes than president putin, president trump, 2:16 in a closed door room. so what did they say? it depends who you ask of course. when it comes to the primary issue, election hacking, russia's foreign minister who was in the room said president trump accepted putin's insistence that there was no hacking. american officials haven't are gone that far, but rex tillerson did say that russia has asked for any proof the u.s. has of