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a matter of whether president came in and said i don't believe you and we have to stop it from going forward. >> how surprising is it to you given your experience with russia, your experience in the

intelligence community that the american president and the american secretary of state seemingly have not pushed this issue as hard as i as an american citizen think that should be pushed. >> well, let's talk from an intelligence perspective. president trump viewed any questioning of the elections, the hacking, all of this information as a referendum on his election and he will not hear from anyone that will say anything to the contrary. the entire u.s. intelligence community discounts it to the point where he insults it to our allies overseas. so to a certain extent as a citizen you have to make a determination of who is more trustworthy here. is it going to be your intelligence agencies that keep you safe in your beds day and night or someone who is known to

go up and this just put the secretary of state out to give an opinion that is patently false and the russians, who are ready to manipulate this at every turn, decided putting up the truth would be more creditable than the president of the united states. >> how troubling is it to you as someone who runs a pro-democracy movement and group that the american president seems to want to cozy up and have a fantastic relationship with the russian president? >> well, of course, there's nothing new in this. if you recall the two previous u.s. presidents, their first meetings with either mr. putin or his placeholder also defined in many ways and set the tone for their attempts to achieve friendly and accommodating relations with putin.

president bush looking into his eyes and seeing his soul or president obama declaring a reset in relations with the putin regime. this follows along established patterns. if you look back at the previous administrations, those attempts to be friendly with mr. putin didn't end very well and they could not have ended otherwise, because at the end of the day they cannot be a convergence of interests or a relationship based on mutual understanding and trust between on the one hand a democratic system and on the other hand an unelected regime of vladimir putin. i think those lessons really need to be learned. another very important aspect of this is this is just not a meeting of two individuals. this is a meeting of two world leaders with different p perspecti perspectives. one is a democratically elected head of state in a democratic

constitutional system and the other one is an authoritarian leader. if the u.s. administration wants to have a genuinely cooperative relationship with russia, it's important to talk to mr. putin and his regime and talk to other voices in russian society representative of other political views in russia because mr. putin is not the dually elected democratic leader of the russian people. the mass protests that we saw across russia weeks ago are a good reminder of that. >> i take your point. every american president has always come into office hoping to have better relations with russia only to be disappointed years down the road, but i would argue that those other presidents still had a jaundice

view of russia as a whole. jamie, let me come to you. part of the reason why i'm so troubled by what we saw at the g20 is the past statements by president trump either as a candidate and certainly as president about vladimir putin. let's take a listen. >> putin's a killer. >> a lot of killers. we have a lot of killers. you think our country's so innocent. if he says great things about me, i'm going to say great things about him. i've already said he is a leader. he goes donald trump -- donald trump -- think of it -- wants to befriend putin and other things. i said to myself what's wrong with that. >> i mean, sure, what's wrong with that, trying to have good relations with an adversary of the united states, except the president of the united states

doesn't seem to look at vladimir putin or russia as an adversary. >> no, i think that's one very disturbing element of the meeting yesterday and i think vladimir hit the nail on the head. this administration is repeating the mistakes of the past. in this case president trump also doesn't seem to understand that the regime of vladimir putin is not an ally of the united states. he seems to believe that there are issues like terrorism that we can work together on and this administration is going to find they're going to be left holding the bag when the russians fail to deliver whether it's in syria or we don't share the same interests with them in terms of resolving that conflict or whether it's actually suhoring p our democracy and preventing them from meddling in the future which is what's missed in all the drama of how the meeting went. the fact of the matter is they're going to come back again, the russians are

continuing to try to influence our democracy as we here in the u.s. are distracted arguing with each other, the russians continue to sow discord and that's what's most frightening to me. >> in the run-up to the g20 there was all this talk about how is president trump going to be prepared, how is he going to be briefed. is he going to be ready to go up against someone like vladimir putin, who is a former kgb agent, deep in the russian intel community, long time leader of russia and one of the articles pointed this out and says that the president doesn't often read the usual briefing books and relies on in person briefings so aids have written a list of tweet length sentences that summarize the main points trump could bring up with putin. this is from the los angeles

times. tweet length sentences for the president to understand the relationship between the united states and russia. >> right. and i think that is disturbing to say the least when it comes to anybody who cares about the u.s.'s preparedness to go up against an adversary like russia. even ahead of this meeting, mcmaster said there wasn't a specific agenda for this meeting and that we are just going to kind of come in and discuss whatever is on the president's mind. i think that also our allies and our adversaries again are looking at that and looking to see is this really a president that is able and willing to communicate the interests of the american people to our allies

and our adversaries. we're talking so much about trump/putin and the personalities involved with this meeting. this was the main card fight. this was the title matchup of the g20, but i think what's lost in all of this is what are american interests and the president's job, when we send him abroad, he is serving the interests of the american people, not just those who voted for him, but all of americans. so was he able to articulate or interests. >> right. since karen talked about personalities and she mentioned h.r. mcmaster, the national security advisor, not in that meeting. another person who wasn't at that meeting, but wasn't brought on the trip fiona hill. she's the deputy national security advisor in charge of europe and russia. >> very hawkish against russia

and very fluent in russian. she was not in the room. you could say mcmaster did himself a favor by not being there because to have to come out and spin a narrative about how this went down in support of the president, i think vladimir putin in a sense gave the president an out because if he doesn't want to talk about the past, if he doesn't want to talk about the election and what role russia may have played in his winning the election, all he has to do is focus on the future. what is russia doing now. he has his heads running these agencies that are constantly telling him russia meddled and russia is continuing to meddle, reports about russians attacking or snooping around nuclear facilities here in the u.s. there's a lot to focus on going forward that russia is involved in. don't focus on the past if you don't want to, but continue to hound russia and be tough on them about going forward in the role russia continues to play

and is currently playing in interfering in our system. >> malcolm. >> for the last day i've been calling what happened in that meeting russian information dominance operation. they have controlled the narrative of what happened in that room, even when tillerson came out he came off as not telling the truth. trump himself has isolated himself from every aspect of u.s. information sharing that is legitimate and he has decided that tweet length descriptions of what he thinks is foreign policy is the way he's going to get information. vladimir putin is an intelligence chief and he uses all the aspects of russian intelligence power to gain dominance over donald trump. vladimir putin used his rewards points in this meeting to gain traction on issues that now will reward moscow in the future. i wouldn't be surprised if we

see the intelligence collection facility given back to russian and russian sanctions lifted as a reward for this great reward. >> minus lifting sanctions and giving compounds back, this was a definite win for vladimir putin. they walked out of this meeting saying they were going to set up a joint cyber task force. coming up, donald trump's north korea problem. stay with us.

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as far as north korea is concerned, i know we will have success. it may take longer than you'd like. it may take longer than you'd like, but there will be success. >> at this hour donald trump is meeting with china's president as the g20 summit in hamburg, germany wraps up. at the top of the agenda, north korea. trump wants china to do more to help reign in north korea's nuclear program especially after a test of a missile which officials believe is capable of reaching alaska. jets conducted an exercise in south korea including practicing attack capabilities. u.s. officials say the exercise was intended to send a clear message to north korea. back with me now is malcolm nance and president of plow

share's fund. thank you both for being here. >> sure. >> u.n. ambassador nikki haley had this to say about north korea on wednesday. take a listen. >> their actions are quickly closing off the possibility of a diplomatic solution. the united states is prepared to use the full range of our capabilities to defend ourselves and our allies. one of our capabilities lies with our considerable military forces. we will use them if we must, but we prefer not to have to go in that direction. >> now, again, that's u.n. ambassador nikki haley. there's a lot of saber rattling there in that quote we just heard. joe, you wrote for defense one last week. i want to pull out this one thing you wrote. there is no military option. this is not like syria. if you hit north korea, they hit back. the regime's survival is predicated on the willingness to use military force against america and its allies.

given what the ambassador said and what you wrote, i want you to expand on that notion that a military option, there are no good options there. >> that's right. almost all serious military experts in town, including the secretary of defense, understand that. the risk is that there's this rational dictator theory going around town or in some papers like the wall street journal for example. they mean make a military push on north korea and topple the regime. the idea that you could do a limited attack, a military strike on their test facilities and kim jong-un understands he would have to accept that strike, that shows a lack of any understanding of how kim jong-un operates.

if he does not respond to a u.s. attack he will lose his grip on power, he will be removed from power. any miscalculation that somehow involves a u.s. initial strike could lead to a war that is catastrophic, that could be a greater war as secretary maddis says than anything that we've seen in living memory. >> joe just mentioned the rational dictator theory. in talking about this and preparing for this discussion, a person said to me something very interesting i hadn't thought of it this way. that the world looks at kim jong-un and north korea as like this crazy state and kim jong-un is the crazy leader that we all have to just pay attention to because he might do something bananas. but won't thing we don't talk about is the fact that here at home in the united states we have an unpredictable and unstable leader in that we have no idea what the president will do or not do at any given hour

and then when you look at his administration, as we saw nikki haley says one thing, but defense secretary said something that was entirely more diplomatic. as you can tell, i'm completely speechless by this situation so i can only imagine how you must feel about the danger that we face on the korean peninsula. >> you're absolutely right. you should be speechless. i was a war fighter. i was involved in every war from 1983 until now. the war that we would have with north korea and some people seem to be advocating would be devastating. the united states hasn't fought a war on that capacity since 1954. this would involve first off no matter what provocation we did, whether we fly b-1 bombers or

b-2 bombers, north korea thrives on confrontation. it has been em-beaued in their political and personal survival strategy since the korean war in the 1950s. that being said, they are ready to reunify the korean peninsula if given an opportunity. once they have nuclear capability, that means they have a deterrent against the united states that is viable. once they have that viable deterren deterrence, then they could use that push forward what they've always wanted, which is a confrontation, a war to reunify the peninsula. >> this plan to test the thad system, is that one more provocation for the north or is that a good thing for the u.s. to do to show resolve. >> i don't think the u.s. has a strategy in the first place. i think they're just doing

things that looked like something tom clancy would choose to do. the united states doesn't isn't able to monitor everything that they do. you fly a b-1 bomber over. maybe they'll detect it and they don't care. test a high-altitude defense system, we have more information than they have. if they shoot a ballistic missile, that is not the threat in that region. the threat is the 14,000 pieces of information. >> secretary of state rex tillerson expressed some doubt

about china's resolve in helping to solve the crisis with north korea. >> i'm sorry. i thought i was off mike. i was just agreeing with malcolm, with everything he just said. look, there's no military option. so that leaves you with a very limited set of other options and the one the administration seems to have chosen is outsourcing to china. that is not going to solve the problem. china does not want to see a nuclear armed north korea stirring up a japanese, south korean build up of military in the region, but they're never going to take the kind of sanctions that would cause the collapse was north korea. they're not going to allow that kind of instability on the peninsula. they are willing to put more pressure on, new sanctions, new diplomatic pressures. so is russia and south korea and japan. what they want is for the u.s. to agree to talks. they believe that pressure alone, sanctions, threats, can't

solve the problem and they're right. in the end this has to be a negotiated agreement. so far the trump administration has refused the option of talking to north korea. tillerson dismissed the most viable option yesterday, a freeze on north korea's capability. unfortunately, that leaves us in the place that malcolm just noted. we then therefore have no strategy. we're just ad libbing our way through this the way that trump ad libbed yesterday. >> right now we have no time. thank you so much. we'll be back in our next hour. >> thank you. coming up, donald trump is coming home to a divided republican party. more on that next. i no longer live with

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health care is a human right. health care is a human right. >> ted cruz saw fireworks of a different kind during the fourth of july recess when they returned home to a backlash against an unpopular plan to replace obamacare. several senators skipped local festivities hoping to avoid an earful from those who opposed the bill. but those had their voices heard in protests across the country. among the few republicans who had the courage to face the fire was the louisiana governor who got a clear message. >> i'll tell you what's rude, kicking 22 million people off health care in their country who

cannot afford it. you step on their necks by kick them off the health care at this point. that's cruel, sir. what you need to do is go back to washington, d.c. and stand up for the people who are here and say we need our health care. >> senators returned to washington this week and while it's looking unlikely that republicans will have enough votes to repeal obamacare yet, they're not giving up. mitch mcconnell, trump and the vice president are planning to persuade individual senators to support the bill. joining me now is our national spokesperson and commentator. thank you for being here. >> thank you. >> the senate bill, the one that senator mitch mcconnell is trying to get through, is the least popular piece of

legislation of the last 30 years. we see the polls and protests. why is the senate, is the white house, our republicans, pushing so hard to repeal obamacare and replace it with trumpcare? >> because it's what they promised for the past seven years and i think that mitch mcconnell and other republican leadership if they don't do something now, they're going to have to face even angrier c constituents and that's the republican base. the problem is they've gone from being against something to now they have to figure out how to craft a policy that really serves people and tackles some of these very very major issues for people that they're facing with health care. they have not been able to do that. they've not been able to meet that challenge, to govern well and bring the coalition together and to also understand that the american electorate has changed.

before people wanted things like freedom of choice, but now they've had a benefit for eight years and the gop leadership and the american people are not on the same page. success to the american people it looks like coverage and to the gop it is freedom of choice, but things have changed. >> what's surprising is since 2009 republicans have been banging away against obamacare saying how horrible it is, how they're going to repeal it and replace it and put in something better and now here you have the senate majority leader who is trying to coble together 50 votes. let's listen to what he had to say on thursday when he was at home in kentucky. >> i'm in the position of a guy with a rubix cube trying to twist the dial in such a way to get to at least 50 members of my conference who can agree to a

version of repealing and replacing. where we end up if republicans are not able to agree among themselves is the crisis will still be there and we'll have to see what the way forward is at that point. >> i mean, isn't the way forward at that point working with democrats? >> yeah, that's right. what they're learning is what mitch mcconnell and republicans are learning is that rhetoric is not governing. they had seven years to work with democrats and they didn't do it and they had the first six months of this year to work with democrats and they don't do it and now the problem that we're seeing is that the -- this trumpcare, the gop health care bill, is not a health care bill because it's kicking off 20 plus million of people out of coverage. that is the issue at hand here. so they can't -- they can't really do this anymore without bringing the democrats in and fixing obamacare. you cannot repeal obamacare

because what they're putting forth is not replacing anything, not when you're stripping away protections for people with preexisting conditions and making it so unafford i canable that the only people who can afford it are the wealthy. >> the commonwealth fund did an economic impact of the senate bill by 2026. look at these numbers. 1.45 million jobs would be lost, $162 in gross state product would be lost, $265 billion in state business output. between those horrible numbers and the protests happening around the country, if you were talking to republican -- to the republican leadership and you had a chance to sit down with the senate majority leader facing all of this stuff, what would you advise him to do? >> stop. stop and listen to the people.

stop and listen to your people. that's something that actually senators from rural states in particular kansas, maine, north dakota, went home and they realized this week when they talked to people they realized that their constituents who live out in rural areas where the hospital was the number one employer in town, you saw the economic impact that the repeal and this replacement bill would have, they heard directly from those people and now they're stepping back. these are usually very solid republican votes. so mitch mcconnell has to stop and listen to these folks because a lot of them were very angry at obamacare for the past seven years, but i think we have to step back and realize, especially as conservatives have to realize, a lot of people were so upset with obamacare because of what it symbolized, not necessarily its impact on their lives. republicans have to make sure they're passing something that will work for people, not just

to pass something. that in the long term is going to help them, even if they lose seats in 2018, it's going to show younger voters that they need to appeal to as well that they're not just a party of cutting taxes for the wealthy and only care about a certain small group of people. >> you raise very good points in a very rational plan for the senate majority leader, if only he would listen. given what you just said and given the anger that's out there, i'll pose this question to both of you. is it possible, do you think, in this environment, leave aside trump care, let's say that effort dies and mitch mcconnell has to work with democrats to get something out of the senate, is it possible to work with obamacare and fix the things that everyone knows are broken in that health care plan? >> well, just listening to mitch mcconnell on thursday, it seems like we're getting there to that possibility.

democrats have said they want to come to the table and fix obamacare. so we have to see. i think we're getting to a place now where, especially moderate republicans are seeing if they touch trumpcare, if they come near it, it's toxic and they'll be firing themselves out of office. now they're put in a situation where your constituents are saying don't take away our health care. what are you going to do. 2018 is right around the corner. so now they have to come to the table and i think we're getting a step closer to that. >> i think for the health care markets to work and stay viable because right now the truth is in many states they're close to collapsing, health insurance companies and hospitals need consistency. at least if republicans and democrats get to a place where they have to work together on things, those organizations, those businesses and that economic impact, will be lessened because all these organizations and these players

will have some economic consistency. in 2018 a person said it's the economy. people are going to want to know that their jobs are there and the community is safe and they have their health care and that's going to speak more to them than this current debate. it's about the economy and working together is going to provide more stability that people really need. >> thank you very much. coming up in our next hour, more on trump's trip to germany and the story that's uniting america.

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>> secretary, did you say say the president was unequivocal in his view that the russians

interfered with the election? >> the russians have asked for proof and evidence. i'll leave that to the intelligence community to address the answer to that question and again, i think the president at this point, he pressed him and then, you know, felt like at this point let's talk about how do we go forward? >> after the first face-to-face meeting with president donald trump and president putin, the white house is saying let's get past this whole interference thing. joining me now, maxine aunt? ie, max 18th water, thank you very much for getting up oh so early there in los angeles to be with us today. >> you are welcome. delighted to be with you. >> so i want to start with the conversation with the tweet that you september out and our producer tracy curry came up with the best translation of it

maxine's version of the help is me who you is impotent. you tweeted only a weak and impotent leader would spend more time attacking his predecessor and the free press than those truly threatening us, the united states, us. >> absolutely. >> what was so troubling to you about the president at the g20? >> well, i tell you what's troubling to me about this president first of all, he has consiste consistently denied russia is responsible for the hacking. he says, it could be somebody else. he left the united states of america with that position. he went into this meeting with no note-takers, no staff people and just he and tillerson, both of whom want to lift sanctions and they basically brought up the subject. did not delve very deeply who why putin and people in the

kremlin and others may have been involved in this hacking and you know they didn't talk about our intelligence agency. 17 of them who have concluded that, yes, they were involved in the hacking, the undermining of our election, the undermining of our democracy. that's what it amounts to putin politely brought it up. he left here with so much pressure. he knew he could not go in there and say anything. he didn't delve deeply into it. now have you tillerson and the president believing putin over all of our intelligence agencies, where they're saying, yes, they did and putin is say, no, he didn't, in our face, and the president mocking, mimicking saying, well, i don't have any proof. i haven't seen any proof. well, that's what i'm talking about. how our president was determined he was going to side with putin and they have agreed that they're going to say there's no proof. now, let's move on.

move on to what? you going to forget about what was done? you are going to forget about an attempt to undermine our democracy and our sovereignty. i don't think so. where are the patriots out there, where are the patriots? where is the republican party? >> on that point, congress woman, you have been in congress for many, many years, and you know your question of where the patriots, where are the republicans? why don't you think your fellow republicans in the capitol in congress aren't stepping out and being full throated in their condemnation of a president of the united states not standing up to the leader of russia and not condej our democrat process here at home? >> good question. these republicans who think that somehow they waive the flag better. we're the real patriots standing umm for this country. i hate to say this, i think they are frightened, they're afraid,

they don't have the guts to stand up to him. they're allowing him to walk all over them because they think that somehow he can come into their district and that he can, you know, get the people organized against him and the vote in 'eastern. well, you know the people set them to the congress of the united states to represent them. not to be afraid of a president who is looking more like a dictator than a president. and so i'm questioning the patriotism of allf of those republicans to side with putin, to wrap his arms around putin and let putin say, no, i been do it and you don't have any proof that i did it. so forget about i want. let's move on. tillerson, i want you to know that president trump and tillerson, they need to stop. why are they doing this? that's the question that must be asked. why are they doing this? i maintain it's all about drilling in the arctic. it's all about the oil. tillerson is the one who

negotiated the big billion dollar -- multi-billion dollar deal with put on the drill in the arctic. i think that's the top of his agenda. that's why he's there as secretary of state. >> congress woman, let me ask you about something else that happened at the g20. it happened this morning, real quickly, the president stepped out of one of the meetings at the g20 and in his place sent his daughter ivanka trump. what do you make of that? >> well, i think that is just so it does not make good sense. here you have the president of the united states of the g20 representing us as the leader of the free world and so he's going to play politics and give his daughter a chance to have a place in the sun and to be seen at a very important meeting that she knows nothing about. she cannot in anyway deal with those members who are there representing those countries. she doesn't know anything about

these issues, ivanka doesn't know anything. >> with that, congress woman, unfortunately, i have to let you go. >> oh my goodness. >> thank you for hanging out with us. few deep already follow the congress woman, you are missing out. check her out on twitter. coming up next, the highlights and the low lights from donald trump's g20 summit. more joy after the break. this is a story about mail and packages. and it's also a story about people. people who rely on us every day to deliver their dreams they're handing us more than mail they're handing us their business and while we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country, we never forget... that your business is our business the united states postal service. priority: you ♪ if you could book a flight, then add a hotel, or car, or activity in one place and save,

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our time is whether the west has the will to survive. >> donald trump wraps up his second big appearance on the world stage and amid the trump attacks on the press the main event was trump's first official meeting with russian president vladimir putin, after this unanswered question. >> thank you very much. >> the two leaders along with secretary of state rex tillerson, russian foreign minister sergei lavrov met for more than two hours during which time trump did bring up the russian election interference, which putin denied. >> that meeting might have overshadowed the remarks he made thursday in warsaw. that speech written by travel ban author steven miller reminded me of trump's propensity for dog whistling alt right, having carried it with

him down the escalateer all the way to 1,500 pennsylvania avenue. >> we have enough respect for our citizens to protect our borders. do we have the desire and the courage to preserve our civilization in the face of those who would subvert and destroy it? i declared today for the world to hear that the west will never, ever be broken. our values will prevail. our people will thrive and our civilization will triumph. >> joining me now, executive director of the terror project. yahoo news and finance anchor, democratic strategist john pierre and former cia special agent jack rice and republican media strategist wick rilson. thank you all very much for being here. we we heard lots of clips of the president's speech in warsaw. to my ears the one thing left

out. we didn't play nit this clip n. this whole run of things, talking about western civilization, he says we write symphony, that's what triggered the alarm bells for me that this was not just some speech about democratic values or the western civilization. this was about something else and it reminded me of this congressman steve king said on our air last july. >> i'm not asking about your history to figure out where are these contributions that have been made by these other categories of people you are talking about, where did any other subgroup of people contribute more to civilization? >> than who? >> western civilation is, it's rooted in western europe, eastern europe and the united states of america and every place with christianity. >> i'm going to start with you and go around the table.

am i wrong in making this parallel between steve king, president trump and white nationalism? >> well, there the an uncomfortable thing you are saying. specifically what strikes me, this president, unlike his predecessors doesn't go into these meetings focusing on democracy and democratic values. that's the easiest way to differentiate us from the russian, vladimir putin what have you. this focus on civilization, us versus them. terrorists versus the civilized world, right symphonys, what have you, plays right into president putin's playbook. you look at u.s. polls here, how many americans view russia more favorably. you see their common amendment when it comes to the nra. when it comes to evangelicals. it's something we are treeing transpire just recently over time. and there the an alarming theme in all of that. >> this is out of the russian

playbook. they've done this in countries and europe in their election cycles, trying to sew division. >> of course. in eastern europe they do it almost the way adolph hitler did it going after ethnic russian groups pocketed throughout the bordering states of modern day russia and then empowering those t. fighting in the ukraine is just an example of that. russia gave all those rebels in ukraine passports, said they were russian. i have one other thing i'd like to add about that speech. >> that speech was the ultimate fulfillment of osama bin ladin's ideology of the belief that there would be a clash of civilizations between what he views as his crazy version of islam and the west. and bin ladin believed in samuel huntington's clash of civilization. he thought by collapsing the soviet union in the 1980s that islam, his version, not the present one that's been around

since 1622. his version would eventually go into a war with the west and trump seemed to embody and enshrine that belief that the west should steal itself for a clash of civilization with other cultures, other beliefs, which pretty much spelled out you know the muslim world. >> you know, that's one of the things that trouble med the m-- troubled me the most in that speech by the president. he is setting up this clash of civilizations, he has done this thing that president george one. bush avoided after 9/11, president obama zubiously avoided after his eight-year presidency to not give comfort to both al qaeda and isis, anyone in the muslim world who wants to get converts because the united states and the west is trying to destroy them. >> you are right. he's still running for office and the problem is, he's never

actually taken the chair and leading the free world, if we want to use that term still. what he has the capability of doing as the president of the united states is to stand up, open up his arms and say, understand, we are all connected in a globalized world, we can all move forward. we can all drive forward together. this isn't a left versus right or west versus east or west versus middle east issue. we need to find a way to move forward. there are connections between us where we can all benefit. instead, he tries to find a way to create a leverage between everybo everybody, so he seems to think he wins. the problem is the united states will continue to lose and will lose big if he continues down this path. we seen this failure in the past. sadly, he seems to want to perpetuate it. >> you know, nick, the president, look, he might be listening, he hears the people criticizing his speech in russia. he sent out a couple tweets i

found interesting. one on friday, my experience yesterday in poland was a great one. thank you to everyone, including the haters, of the great reviews of the speech. then inexplicably he sends out another tweet saying everyone here is talking about why john modesta refused to give the dnc serve tore the fbi and cia, disgraceful. >> that is just so out there other worldly. let's just deal is with the first one about the haters of his speech. >> sure. >> in warsaw. rick. >> look, i think the speech was, yes, there was a lot of dog whistling in the speech. but the location is as important as the content. he went to poland, one of the few places in europe where he would receive a welcome that wasn't going to be very overtly hostile to him. he gave a speech there that was red meat for the sort of nationalist and

ethno--nationalist authoritarianism, trump and steve bannon and steve miller all are very drawn to. the other underpink signal, they don't believe in western civilization in the classical sense. they believe in the use of the trump western civilization to execute a more authoritarian form of government and that is why you end up with a lot of these secret code words and dog whistles this guy is dependent on. because they don't, like you said the classical values of western civilization aren't what they really care about. the symphonies and the leicester and the architecture aren't what they really care about. they care about using that as a vector to achieve a more authoritarian ethno-nationalism form of government, to a constitutional republican government. >> you know, one of the things that the president gives this speech in warsaw. he visits poland. he did, well, it's more like he

didn't do something like other presidents have done and he did not visit the holocaust memorial. he's a quote from politico in an article about another way trump dog whistled to nationalists in his visit to poland. the president's decision to skip that symbolic victory was seen as handing a victory to the right wing party. they have been fight figure pols who fought against nazi, germany, downplaying 3 million post-jews who perished in the holocaust. again, this plays into, when the president isn't really talking about western civilization, he's talking about a very specific and narrow supplies of a particular civilization. >> what do you -- given your views on the president's speech and what we have been talking about so far. >> jonathan, this is exactly what we saw for 18th months the dog whistling, the nationalism, you have steve bannon by his

side, steve miller by his side. they all have the same view, let's not forget the inauguration speech and how awful that was. so he's taken his campaign mode into presidential mode. right. he did it in inauguration and now into the world, into the global mode. we have to remember, this is a president who believes in isolationism. so it's not at all surprising. if anything, it's embarrassing because it takes us, the u.s. away from that global leader's role that you are supposed to be. we're supposed to be the leader of the free world and now you have these different alliances from the world leaders that are happening outside of donald trump. >> right. >> because they don't trust him. they feel incredibly uncomfortable with them. now they're, when they're fought talking to him, they're talking about what are we going to do about north korea and u.s. trade deals? they're talking about, hey what are we doing about the paris accord now the u.s. has dropped

out. so it just makes us look awful and it's incredibly dangerous. >> you are giving your answer, showing zero of the family photos they did at the g20. what's notable about that video at the beginning, where president trump is standing, look to the left of your screen, president trump the president of the united states at a g20 summit is shunted off to the side of that group, whereas in years past, the president of the united states has always been front and center, maybe one or two spaces away from maybe the host of the summit. but in talking about the isolation of the united states, jack, let me come to you with this, what they were talking about is how the world is going around the united states, this cannot be good for the long-term strategic national interests of our country, can it? >> of course, it can't be.

we look at what the united states did after world war ii. we created the marshall plan for a reason. we wanted stability and a bullwork against the soviet union. when wanted a trade partner. we wanted to strengthen the world. the united states created an organizational structure. in fact, the united states became the post-powerful country on the planet because of that. the problem we see right now is this president has been undertut u cutting those underpinnings, undercutting thoseoal straurs and what it's going to do is exclude, it's going to drive the united states into that corner where donald trump is. that's the last place we want to be. if you -- there's going to be an organization out there. we don't get to see the table, a whole lot of things will be done, the united states won't even be in the room. >> malcolm, how dangerous is that? and also, is this something that the united states can pull back from? either after the mid-term elections, let's say one of the houses flipped or in the next

election, if there is another president, keep in mine, we got three-and-a-half more years to go. if the united states continues down this more isolated route and is isolated by the rest of the world, can that damage be repaired with another administration or four-to-eight years? >> i'm sure it can be repaired. this is the united states, right? we make mistakes, go backwards and move forward. we are moving ours to almost a pre world war ii, the american values, the spreading of democracies, 50 million people lost their lives in world war ii. >> that became the principle guiding doctrine of the united states is now inoperative by the president of the united states' senior staff's own design. but there is another danger in here that speech was not only hailed by trump supporters, but over the last day or so, we have been seeing a lot of right wing extremists, potentially terrorist groups, neo-nazis who have been calming that what they

call the 1488 speech. right. the 14 words, right? >> which are -- >> we must protect the existence of our, of our, of our -- >> white race. >> of our white race, and the future of our white children and slash 88 which stands for the letters hh, heil hitler. >> that has been burning over other sites. >> the tweet that sarah palin says 14 words, you know, a few years ago, a guy ander we havevic in norway, a right wing extremist follower of this same doctrine mass murdered all over 75 people in norway believing that would bring about this uprising to secure those 14 words. but we have to see that? is this being condoned by the white house? >> circumventing the united states doesn't just hurt the united states, it's our allies,

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we do business where you do business. ♪ ♪ >> in case north korea, russian-gate and donald trump's attempts that voter aggression weren't enough to keep you up at night, there is also a looming crisis over the debt ceiling. i warned you about this a few months back. the situation is more desire today. consider what happened just on june 30th, birse the independent non-congressional bug office issued a report that warned if the debt ceiling isn't raised, the federal government won't have enough cash on its hand to pay all of its bills in early to

mid-october. the second thing that happened, in response, secretary steve mnuchin said at the white house quote for the better of everybody, the sooner they do this the better, they being congress. third, ten republican senators sent a letter to senate majority leader mitch mcconnell warning after they return from the july recess on monday, there are 33 potential working days remaining before the end of the fiscal year. 33 days. 33 days to repeal obamacare, institute tax reform, raise the debt ceiling and cobble together a 2018 budget by october 2nd, right around the time the cbo says the nation could default for the first time in its history. we asked the white house for a representative to come on and discuss all this and they pointed us to our next guest. joining me now is an dru pudner, former ceo of restaurants and

president trump's former secretary of labor before he whispers his name in february, thank you for being here. >> glad to be here, thanks. >> help me out with something, there seems to be a bit of tension within the trump administration, have you the secretary treasury steve in nuchen who says the debt ceiling should be raised, it should be clean and done as soon as possible. on the other hand, the budget director nick mulvaney thinks there should be horse trading done but conditions placed on raising the debt ceiling. you no at the economy, you are a businessman, which do you think the white house should, which path do you think the white house should pursue? >> i think the white house is pursuing the payoff that secretary mnuchin laid out within she talks about increasing the debt ceiling as soon as possible. i think that's widely shared within the administration. i do think our president is a negotiator. i think that districtor mulvaney

would like to negotiate. everybody knows we can't default on the obligations of the united states. the debt ceiling will be increased and the administration is behind it i believe 100%. >> but there's a difference between increasing the debt ceiling, which is increasing the legal limit on federal borrowing. everyone agrees that should happen, but how it should happen seems to be what the tension is, whether there should be conditions placed on raising it or if congress should just do a clean raising of the debt ceiling with no conditions placed on it, no horse trading over anything related to budget matters, cutting spending or anything like that. do you think that congress should just pursue a clean debt ceiling bill? >> it depends. it depends upon whether our, the leadership in congress believes it can accomplish more good by trying to attach good things to a ceiling increase or whether that's just not achievable in

this political climate and we got a lot of opposition from both sides. the bottom line is whether you can give a little more or do it cleanly. it needs to be raised. everybody knows it needs to be raised. it will be raised. we will have to wait to see what congress does with respect to negotiation any details. >> can any good come from attaching any conditions to raising the debt ceiling, especially in this political climate where republicans can't agree among each other about what should be done, then you bring in the democrats, get them involved. we could possibly see a situation give in to political tension plus all the things on the docket that the debt ceiling falls by the wayside and we do as a nation ends up defaulting. >> look i can't tell you what's in the mind of everybody in congress. i can tell you the leadership and the administration are going to see that the debt ceiling is increased. i can tell you personally i think we should simply increase it and move on. but there may be things that

they can do that in the legislative process that would be a benefit to the country, a benefit to the economy. we've got a lot of issues with respect to the way budgets are set, with whether or not we should be spending as much money almost $700 billion deficit this year based on that cbo report. we are spending way too much money. there are things that need to be done. clearly the debt ceiling needs to increase and will increase. >> mr. president, you are not saying that there needs to be cuts in the 2018 budget as a condition for raising the debt ceiling? >> no, we don't have a 2018 budget. we have president trump has proposed a budget. we haven't had a budget in years, here we got $20 trillion almost in debt. no, there is no set budget yet. i'd love to see a proposal from the democrats t. president's made a proposal to balance the

budget in ten years without cutting social security or medicaid. i think that's a good proposal. we need to move forward on all of these fronts, we definitely need to make sure the sovereign debt of the united states is paid. >> mr. president, is that even possible to balance the budget in ten years and not touch entitlements, not touch social security, not touch medicaid, medicare? >> in fact the budget that the president proposed takes frus 4 trillion this year up to 5 billion, almost a 40% increase, it is possible to do it. he's proposed a budget. it uses a baseline the house bill on repealing and replacing obamacare and his proposal on reforming the tax code, which are two things we really need to get done to have a better feel for where a budget can go. until congress accomplishes those bills, we know they're not going to, it's difficult to project where we end up. it's absolutely possible. there is a proposal on the table

that could accomplish that. >> on a scale of one to ten, how confident are you that by okay 2nd the united states congress will have raised the debt ceiling? >> i know we will accomplish that before a default the cbo says probably the middle of october. i'm 100% confident, a 10, it will be raised in a timely manner. >> i want to share your optimism. >> i hope you do. >> coming up, trump's voter integrity commission can be a bonanza for hackers. we'll tell you that story next. whoa!

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>> it's a loot to unite red states and blue states these days, chris kovac, the cry chair of donald trump's quote/unquote election integrity commission has asked every state for reals of data on voters, 48 states and the district of colombia are now refusing his requests. 21 states have flat out said no, another 27 say they will only personally comply. arkansas is so far the only state to hand over any data, marld rejected the request after the state -- maryland rejected the request saying it was repugnant and quote appears to design to intimidate voters and endulg president trump's fantasy he won the popular vote. joining me now is that attorney general. thank you very much for being here. >> thank you for having me, jonathan. >> let me read you part of chris kovac's statement he put out on

wednesday, he wrote, while there are 44 straights that have refused to provide voter information, they are more fake news, i mean this is, part of it is the president trying to proffer that 3 million undocumented immigrants voted in this election, also to prove somehow there is a problem with election fraud, voter fraud, which neither of those things is true? >> that's right. the president complains of being the victim of witch hunts. this gives witch hunts a bad name. chris kobach made a career out of voter suppression, if kansas, he has gone on a campaign to

suppress the vote to make it as difficult as possible. it's harder to vote in kansas than anywhere else in the united states and he has also tried to prosecute people for what he claims is voter fraud. he found i think after looking at a number of different elections in kansas six people who he says voted twice. that's it. >> you know, one of the things, there's voter suppression, but there are a lot of people and tell me if you agree, who believe that this so-called election integrity commission is really about purgeing voters from the voter rolls? in there absolutely it is, they want to stop people from voting. i think that's what their objective is. they want to intimidate people, take them off the rolls. there was a report i saw recently that said there were millions of people who were registered in more than one state, but when they boiled it down and actually figured out how many it was, it was a

handful. the fact is that voter fraud is extraordinarily uncommon. we have a real problem in our country with our elections. >> that is, that it was the subject of russian hacking in the last election. that's something to be concerned about. but there is no massive voter fraud. there is certainly no evidence of it. >> one thing that people will say is that we have a problem with people not voting to begin with. voter participation is a big problem. i want to ask you about something involving another maryland official. one of the members of trump's commission was maryland's deputy secretary of state luis barunda. it was an interesting appointment in the first place since maryland and the sex's office does not handle elections, how does that even happen? >> i have no idea how that happens, as you say the secretary of state has nothing

to do with it. this particular individual has no experience whatsoever with elections. why he was accepted, why he was asked? i couldn't begin to tell you. it makes no sense, i think they finally saw the writing on the wall and asked him to resign and by they, i mean the administration in maryland. >> one more thing before i let you go, the accident of justice, attorney general jeff sexes sent out a letter last week asking each state, asking them how they enforce federal requirements that they purge their voter rolls of eneligible voters, the headline, this doj letter, may be more alarming that trump commission requests for voter data. what did you make from that letter of the tomorrow? >> jonathan the cornerstone of democracy is voting. it's participation by the citizens of our country and it looks to me like this this administration the on a campaign to stop people from

participating in elections, to stop them from voting. >> maryland attorney general brian fox, thank you very much for being here. >> great to be with you. trump's attempt to collect voting data on millions of americans may also be a threat to national security. that's an architect from the former homeland secretary under george b.w. bush, he point out collecting all that information in one place would create a juicy starting for foreign adversaries looking to disrupt american elections, does that sound familiar? to anybody? back with me, does that sound familiar, to either of you? >> yes, very familiar. you know he is right, this would be the biggest database, they have no encryption for this. they want states to upload the xl files to a computer that was not secure. by doing that anybody could take it.

you know in 2015, chinese government stole the database of many people that work for the united states government, millions, almost. mammal stealing the voter database of foreign virginia and scrubbing that against everybody who lives in i don't know langley or falls church or next to the cio or ft. meade, maryland, in laurel and colombia, right next to that, you whof the real names, addresses, social security numbers of u.s. spell jens officers in the tens of thousands. >> it's a hypothetical, we know it's exactly what the russians were trying to get their hands on, shop ining around. take a step back. there are some things the president does you can say listen i understand the politics behind that t. politics of this mission, just don't make sense. have you bipartisan ani mous about this. are you hearing from republicans and democrats saying i'm not giving you this data.

you have a looming budget potential crisis, a health care bill that still remains to be passed and you have tax reform. all of these agendas you think a president given he controls all three houses would be able to achieve and this just creates bad blood within a party that's already feuding within itself. >> and to add to like the scary nature of all of this and the juicy target of all of this, in a filing in d.c. courts, where a privacy group is starting to stop this, kobach says they will be transmitted and stored, an application for security exchange an files, they will upload it to the safe website and commission staff will download the files from safe on to white house computers. now, get a load of this. our interpret producer clicked kobach's link in chrome and she got a warning message and the warning message is, your connection is not private. attackers may be trying to steal

your information, for example, passwords, messages or credit card, good lord. malcolm! >> lodon't look at me. there was a presidential cyber security executive order earlier this year signed by a gentleman named donald trump. >> that says the u.s. government cannot transmit information not using secure methodologies that are to u.s. government standards and that that would be the policy for the united states government. is this an official commission or not? i mean, is it volunteers? because they don't seem to have any idea of what they are trying to do other than get that voter data information and you know i think the chinese would love it. >> but they want to get that voter data information. it's a juicy target for the chinese, the russians, they can be anybody the guy on the couch, untold number of pound that the president keeps talking about. to your point, of all the things

that the country should be focused on, certainly the president should be focused on, why are they going down this road? and why are they putting all that information in a place where people can get it? >> well, it goes back to the intelligence heads saying that the president didn't bring up cyber threats from the russians in any of the conversations with them. he cares more about crowd sizes, he cares more about being elected as legally and without russian interference. i mean, this is something that clearly is on his mind more than let's say governing the country at times and that's scary, just within the last couple of hours, you had vladimir putin, the press conference in germany, you we heard what president trump said. he said he believed me, when i told him that russia wasn't involved in any of the hackings, but you have to get him to really confirm that. puts the ball in president trump's back yard again and he doesn't want to have to deal with it. >> right, the president will say, no, it could have been

anybody. it w which leads to the larger question, this election, whatever it is, how safe is our democratic process, democratic small deed, our democracy from hacking in general, from the russians who, you know, hacked our election, hacked the french election, i think are doing their darnedest to do, to mess up angela merkel in germany. if the united states does not take this seriously and this commission certainly doesn't take it seriously, how safe is our democracy from something like russia or from this commission? >> democracy is under attack. democracy was attacked about one year ago by the russians. they are out to dismantle the u.s. democratic process. they don't care. this isn't about chaos. this is about making it unreliable and putting in people that want to make that

unreliability a part of a policy. so if we don't take this seriously as a nation, right now, your cyber security is whatever software that you put on your computer. there is no national infrastructure. the national security agency does not build encryption and safety protocols for you. there needs to be a public private partnership in where the electoral process and the voter rolls should be considered national infrastructure. this information vis-a-vis opposite, something fungible, maybe traded. >> maybe i'll become a lodi give up all of my technology, thank you very much for being here. coming up, she may be the most powerful woman in the world. did she win the leak? my panel joins me when we come back.

>> up next, a reprieve from the

mayhem, one of joy's favorite section, i'm starting to see why, who won the leak? coming up after the break. at panera, a salad is so much more than one thing. more than one flavor, or texture, or color. a good clean salad is so much more than green. and with panera catering, more for your event.

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time for the best part of the show. back with me now, karine jean-pierre, rick wilson and john rice to discuss who won the week. rick, you are in the middle square. who won the week? >> i'm going with a slightly contrary view. most people think putin won the week. i think mitch mcconnell won the week by finally buying some time and space on this disastrous health care plan that has caused republicans to be in the witness protection program and the few that have gone out to town meetings have come back understanding that this isn't just astroturf, there's a genuine amount of distress and discomfort about this. they have marketed this badly. as the greatest legislative strategist in the senate since lbj, mitch mcconnell knows when he's got a bad hand. ike he won the week by getting out from underneath it for a

while. >> jack, who won the week? >> okay, here's the guy that i want to win the week and that's walter schaub. he is the former head of the office of government ethics. he's the one who quit this week because of the violations that trump has done over and over. look, like malcolm nance, i raised my right hand and swore to protect this country. i was hit by an ied in western baghdad, i was shot at in afghanistan. i've always thought about so many people doing so much who see this country as something bigger, something more. donald trump thinks he is bigger than the presidency, he is bigger than the country, everything is about him. the problem is, it's not. walter schaub stood up this week and said enough. i'm done. for that, he is my man of the week. >> yeah, that is a great pick. >> that is a great pick. >> karine jean-pierre. >> i think putin won the week. a couple of reasons why.

number one, he successfully meddled in our elections and is facing virtually no consequences. number two, he got the president of the united states to say he was honored to meet putin. this is a man who as we all know murders journalists, doesn't believe in freedom of speech, freedom of the press. lastly we have donald trump who denigrated our intelligence agencies while denying and dismissing the fact that russia interfered with our elections. and then we have an open question too, which is what will happen in 2018 with our midterm elections? we know russia is going to do this again. >> so, you brought up vladimir putin, karine jean-pierre. the person that i think won the week is the same person vladimir putin brought to a meeting, a dog with him, because he knew she was afraid of dogs. my winner of the week is german

chancellor angela merkel for this one action. take a look. run that again. watch the eyes, watch the eyes. bam! an 'emmic eye roll. i mean i don't know. to me i sent out a tweet when i saw it. that eye roll translates to child, please. what do you think possibly engendered that, oh, my god, this child here look on angela merkel's face. anybody jump in. >> if my grandmother had made that eye roll, the next thing she would have said is go get a switch. >> oh, my gosh, yes. >> karine, somebody thought that maybe vladimir putin was vladsplaining to angela merkel. she's like almost, i'm almost

the leader of the free world. >> she said child, please. look at my palm, please, absolutely. she is -- look, angela merkel is winning, right, the whole year thus far because of the position that she's in. she's the most powerful woman clearly in the world and now is like becoming potentially the world leader because of donald trump. >> and she's also done one another thing. she's done the pushback. you think about what happened in britain, you thought about potentially what was going to happen in france, certainly what happened in the united states. she came back as the progressive leader saying we are a globalized society, we are all interconnected and we are going to drive forward. she took this role almost by herself in the entire world. the fact that she's standing tall and above just about everybody else right now says so much about her and so much about their potentially the eu is going and maybe where the americans should be going. >> right. and jonathan, she's the only one that's publicly saying we have to move on and leave the u.s.

behind. she's the only one saying that publicly. >> so, you know, we're not the only one in this game. you know, we got the "a.m. joy." the #amjoy crowd that's watching. who won the week? the american people. we got trump out of the country for a few days. >> but nobody wants to keep him, that's the problem. >> let poland keep him. >> i'm going to use anchor's prerogative and though out one more winner of the week. it's this alaska mom and her baby. they got to meet president 44, president obama who, i believe, was like refuelling on his way back to washington on a trip overseas. the president was at anchorage international airport and snapped that pic with the 6-month-old. that 6-month-old baby, look at that, that little face, and the hat too. the hat is amazing. you guys, thank you very much for being here.

karine jean-pierre, rick wilson and john rice. that's our show for today. be sure to join us tomorrow for more "a.m. joy." in the meantime keep it right here and alex witt is coming up next. ♪ [vo] progress is seizing the moment. your summer moment awaits you now that the summer of audi sales event is here. audi will cover your first month's lease payment on select models during the summer of audi sales event.

hey there, everyone, i'm alex witt here in new york at msnbc world headquarters where it is high noon in the east, it's 23450i9:00 a.m. out west. as we bring you a live picture, there is the president and he is heading to air force one any moment now. he will be taking off and there you see melania after wrapping up his first trip to the g20 summit. the president's departure comes shortly after holding bilateral