maybe it will be completely different. we'll see how their media handles it. that wraps up this hour of msnbc live, my colleague, katie, picking things up right now. >> 2:00 p.m. here in the nation's kal and 8:00 p.m. in paris. he is a special guest on bastille day. but not even this drop could keep his sons meeting with a

russian lawyer quiet. so p trump held firm that his son did nothing wrong and then he did fleeflected. >> my son is a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer, not a government lawyer, but a lawyer, i think most people would have taken that meeting, it's called opposition research or research into your opponent. the lawyer that went in the meeting, i say she was in the halls of congress also. someone said that her visa or pa passport to come to the country was approved by toernl general lynch. >> the white house sent kellyanne conway.

>> don junior made his "time" cover debut, but i think this is not how he hoped it would look. >> halle jackson, tell me about what the president said in that press conference. most people would have taken that meeting, it's called opposition research. the initial statement, on his way back from europe last week, why did that contradict so much, a russian government official that had that dirt on hillary clinton? >> let me tell you what the president's lawyer is saying about that statement that came out on sunday. it was reported by the "new york

times," they say the president was not involvemented in crafting that statement nor his outside legal team. some of the president's advisors apparently did huddle on air force one to talk about it. it is an evolution. what donald trump junior said on saturday, and what he learned was just part of the story. and the lest let's controversial part of the story. how it came out, the initial intentio intentions, and that russia is essentially trying to help your dad, that brings us to today and president trump being pressed about this. and significant, right? we heard the president say some of this in that interview with reuter's. now a full throated defense of his son. family is everything for the

pthd, but when he talks about opposition research, sure, they have those meetings in politics, what they don't do is have meetings with foreign nationals. that's what some are extraordinarily concerned about. don junior says hindsight is 20/20, but that is not putting to rest the accusations. >> what about kushner, updating his disclosure forms, now doing it three times, who did he had? >> more than 100 names according to someone close to jared kushner. a contacts list, a disclosure he needed to file. he is now a person under a ton of scrutiny here. it was set up and arranged by donald trump junior, but there is only one person in that

meeting that is part of the campaign. there are calls to revoke his security clearances. the president doesn't have to if he doesn't want to. if he wants kushner to have a security clearance, he will. they suggest that the president should fire hem or that kushner should resign. i think the chances of him firing his son-in-law are slim to none at this point. >> ashley parker, we also have you with us from the washington post. what is the feeling about him in the white house right now? >> it depends on who you ask. one thing is that this is a wlo white house full of mistrust. some people think kushner may have put the e-mails out. it ratchets up that existing suspicion and infighting. the president's legal team is

frustrated thinking they need to be walled off. just the idea that as you mentioned earlier, jared is involved in a lot of meetings. he is the name that comes up most consistently. he is there in the campaign and now there during the white house nap sai . that said again, he is the son-in-law and he is trusted with a very big portfolio. none of those responsibilities have been curtailed. >> what about the fbi now going back to look at michael crowlcrowley, we should introduce you, michael crowley, the fbi is going back to look at interactions back to 2015 between russian operatives and trump people. they're now curious about those again. conversations that raised flags at the time but they didn't know why, it was before he announced

he was running for president. >> donald trump talked about running for president for a long time and there was speculation that he might do so in the 2016 cycle well before he anoisnounc. the russians were essentially cultivating donald trump and this family, it was a hugely famous and popular american billionaire that would be good to have on your side, but best case scenario, he could be president of the country some day. they will be cultivating him, trying to get into his family for me years placing a bet on him. so it would stand to reason that they would have been laying the ground work before the campaign was under way. you donald trump, you his son. there is roger stone and so many

people in his orbit that now look quite interesting when you start dialing it back. >> we found video from moscow in 2013, and the soundbite is coming in just a moment, but what about their relationship, and why would president putin use them? >> the russians are smart about how they do this. they don't -- they want to have a cutout or intermediaries, so if people start looking at the nature of the connection, it doesn't go straight back to putin's front door. he is not smoozing at parties, but he might have a billionaire real estate developer, who say the donald trump of moscow, that can entertain someone like him,

throw a good party, introduce him to people. it makes perfect since that that would be the way that the kremlin would try to get to know -- >> we are having ms. universe. it's a big deal, a sellout, my billionaire friends from russia will be there. right smack in the middle of moscow. they are great people with great entrepreneurial spirit, i have fantastic friends. >> do they pick your brain? >> they read my books. >> is it now referred to as a dangle. this e-mail from donald trump junior? >> yeah, i think that, well, the e-mail is quite play tent.

why is someone putting into plain english that the russian government is helping your campaign and it does imply that there may have been prior conversations about it. it is striking that we have something quite so blatent. the way he talked about moscow, the after party, all of the higher ups were there. >> ashley, the idea that -- what are you hearing, which is naive for donald trump junior to accept this ip i havation, this meeting, even though is said clearly they had information on

hillary clinton? >> it was naive at best. it is basically, spoort of like you know, stupid as a defense. he is just trying to help his dad, you have to remember the he just got the nomination, going into a floor fight at the convention, they're desperate on any information they can get, and these are people in day one in their business lives and in the presidential campaign, they're doing things that they say if you do that you're going to lose. they felt like the rules didn't apply to them, and this is how don junior viewed it. this is the most positive spin that people put on it. >> ashley parker, hallie

jackson, michael crowley, thank you for being here with me, we have a member of the foreign affairs committee, he joins me now. i want to ask you about what the president just said a moment ago. most people would have attacken th -- taken that meeting, it's called opposition research. >> the e-mail should have been a clear red flag that the meeting should not happen. with everything that we know know, there is nothing that took place at the meeting that was illegal, but when it was received before, being that red flag, it should not have happened, fortunately it fwhent a different direction than it was originally billed. but if that e-mail is received, my opinion would be not to take it. >> overs have all talked about

the drip drip drip, for you when is enough enough? >> it is important to point out that nothing happened at the meeting that was illegal. this issue is that the e-mail was received and the meeting happened anyway, but there -- the hysteria that has resulted is ridiculous. we should just assess this for what it is. as far as the president goes, we should be supportive of him, most importantly because we want our country to be successful. it's okay to disagree, where we disagree with an approach on a particular issue like health care, veterans, taxes. it is important for us to have a substantive productive debate

when we disagree, but the fact that his hand was on the bible, there was a parade route of people with "impeach him" signs. in trump country, russia scandal doesn't resonate. there are critics and skeptics out there that say this is why remembers are not going after the president when they would under normal circumstances. they're just afraid of trump's base. >> we can't change the fact pattern of what took place here. there are people who are opposition to the president who want to see as a result of this story, that somehow articles of impeachment would gain traction against the -- that is absurd. we're not going to just assume that there was a different fact pattern than what we now know

and that we're trying to add claims that make the trump administration look worse. in my particular case, the meeting should not have happened, but the meeting itself went in a different direction. >> are you confident that that is exactly where it tends? that it fwhentwent in a differe direction and that's all that's there? how do you know their statement about it now is the end of it, congressman? >> two things. i base what i know based on what i know. what is public at that time. the same thing for you and a lot of people watching this, we form our own independent judgment based on the facts of this particular case tell us that at the meeting there is nothing out

there, at all, indicated -- >> what if he did get information from the russians, what if they did have nefarious, damaging information on hillary clinton, dirt as they promised him, and he took it and used it. after all donald trump himself said it's normal to take meetings like this. what about the argument then, congressman that many will make and have been making already that the republicans are putting party over country with this. this was an attack, russians attacked democracy, they attacked our election systems, they attacked the election. >> but that is not the fact pattern of what actuallyly happ -- actually happened. >> as far as you know. >> that's right. he is willing to testify, there

has been an open line of communication there in the course of the last few days indicating there is total cooperation there now and will play out. >> so it took quite some time congressman, so how can you be confidence that this is them telling the truth. >> because i don't -- i don't want to -- i love you a lot, this is a great station and now, i don't want to battle you on this. i bait my own independent judgment off of the information that i have. and everything that everyone knows about what happens at that meeting, was that absolutely none of that hypothetical that was just presented took place. i'm not going to assume a different fact pattern than what

i know. what is happening is there is folks that want to ne gate last november's election. they're looking backwards, they're upset that president trump won and they want him to be removed from office. there are people looking forward, and it includes democrats. people who didn't vote for him, and they want to work together on health care, on tax reform, securityi securing or border, taking care of our country nap is real, but what we hear is the noise of the extreme of people that, since the moment that donald trump was elected, there is people -- they are saying they want to blow up the white house, kathy griffin holding a decapitated head,sh ts

is all going on right now by an extreme that i have an issue with, so i come on, i do the interviews, i love answering the questions but for me to act out in an emotional way about a fact pattern that is not real and disguise the fact that i'm upset when i see the other extreme doing all of that, and steve scalise still in the hospital, because someone that is upset with last november's election trying to take it into his own hand. we could have had 25 members of congress dead on that field. >> we always appreciate you coming on the show, sir, appreciate you answering questions honestly and appreciate your time, thank you very much. >> thank you, take care. >> as the saying goes, third time's a charm, but on capitol

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this is our opportunity to really make a difference on health care. a chance to bring about changes we have been talking about since obama care was forced on the american people. >> from what we're seeing the new republican trump care bill is every bit as mean as the old one. in one big way, it's even meaner with the addition of something like the cruz amendment. >> the top republican and democrat in the senate stuck to their sides an hour of the revised bill was released this afternoon. the bill keeps deep cuts to medicaid and the elimination of the current man dadate requirin people to purchase insurance. also allows insurers to sell bare bones plans. also health savings accounts can be used to pay premiums. $45 billion to fight the opioid

epidemic, $70 billion to stabilize. mitch mcconnell can only lose two republican votes on this, so will it pass? garrett is joining me now from capitol hill. at last count 10 republican senators said no to this bill, this is a new version of it, who is saying yet so far? >> right now the bill seems to have moved a lot of people that were soft yeses into more comfortable territory. soft nos like rob portman, they are telling us they want a little more time to look at it. a number of them are meeting with mitch mcconnell right now. the problem for senate republicans is some of the folks that were hard nosed coming into this appear to still be hard nosed today encolluding susan

collins of maine and rand paul that spoke to kacie hunt a few moments ago. >> it keeps the vast majority of the obama care regulations, majority of the obama care subsidies and creates a new bailout fund. >> so the bill is still obama care light in your view? >> yeah, and in some way it's goes beyond what obama care did. >> so that is a pretty bruising assessment from ranld paul. the inclusion of the cruz amendment seems to have brought ted cruz along. we're still waiting for the senators to page through what they have been given today. >> let's hope the ted cruz amendment brings ted cruz along. here with me now, michael

steel, former house speaker, also jason johnson. it is so wonderful to see you. michael, let's start with you since this is the republican health care bill. this amendment is trying it's best to find a middle ground between the conservatives of the party with the ted cruz amendment and the moderates, but is it going to get someone like susan collins on board? >> we're inching to the finish line. you're seeing changes on both sides. changes like additional resources for the opioid epidemic, more state exchanges, that is the conversation we're having now. >> big cuts to medicaid still. >> it is on an unsustainable path, there needs to be changing to survive. >> jason? >> they kept some of it to pay off the senators on the fence.

the opioid finding, the $70 billion, it is basically to get the waivering republicans, it is just as problematic as trying to maintain the current bill as it is. it subpoena a short-term payoff. it is just short sided thinking. will they pass something in probab probably. >> it was pretty wildly unpopular before, the president himself called it mean. >> that was the house version. >> we will see continues improvement in the perception of the legislation. >> what if you don't? >> these are not payoffs, they're provisions that help populations in states across the country. >> what if you don't see improvement? what if they say absolutely not, please don't take away my health

care, what if you see someone go to shelly in west virginia and show her a picture of her daughter and say obama care saved my daughter's life, please don't take it away from me, what will republicans do then? >> these are tough, personal issues, every one of them, that is why health care is such a hairy issue. promises we made to the american people and in each change, it gets better for the people it's trying to help. >> what are democrats bringing to the table on this? >> there is a really good fact about the removal of regulations. the third leading cause of death is medicalerer r-- error. one of the ways to solve it was for doctors to keep more documentation. that stuff is being dragged out right now. when you focus on saying removing this bill will cost

lives. fix the bill as it is. the idea of repealing it and playing jenga, it will not solve the problem. >> something they do not like, something they do not agree with, the president signs that bill just so long as it repasses the house, and being in a position where they can't do anything about it because they're not in a majority in congress. >> how do democrats head them off at the pass and say let's find a way to protect our constituents. there are several that probably tpt to pass and blow up. i think they have been so polarized, they realize they can't do anything about it. the republicans want to destroy this bill no matter what. >> i think the democrats are

dammed if they do, dammed if they don't. they think the bill will pass and republicans will be blamed, or it will not pass and obama care will continue this death spiral that will eventually allow them offer single payer socialized medicine. >> part of the problem your posz sa -- boss was the tea party saying no to everything. how do you find a way to come together, how do you find a way for congress to work for the american people and not just for the democrats or just the republicans? >> i think that is exactly the process. jason is making a face. and he is working in a conservative good will fashion to improve the legislation. >> would senator schumer meet him at the table? >> if he put a table out there,

they're limiting the amount of up tohalls. the person that should be the number one sales person, i don't think they are negotiating in good faith at all. that's one of the reasons the bill is as unpopular as it is. >> they spoke to pot robertson about it. he said i think it will be very bad. i will be very angry about it and a lot of people will be very upset. with that i have to leave it here. thank you for the spirited debate, thank you for not clobbering one another. does that happen? >> no. >> thank you very much. up next, what about jared?

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absorbent layers to stay up to three times drier, so babies can sleep soundly all night. wishing you love, sleep and play. pampers. this is how i see it so far. what's the conclusion? collusion? no. illusion, delusion. four words, conclusion collusion, no, illusion, delusion yes. fun with words. >> kellyanne conway doing her best to fight off claims of collusion. donald trump junior is making her claims harder. he said he was happy to collude

with russia for dirt on hillary clinton. what about his brother-in-law jared kushner. reminder, he is the one in the white house, he has security clearance, and he may know more about what the president knew about that june 9th meeting and when he knew it. he updated his federal disclosure form to include the lawyer's name on a list of foreign contacts. he added more than 100 names. he played down the significance of the meeting and omit thd significant details according to two people who were briefed on the exchange. kushner has the ear of the president, but could that change? the president's lawyers want jared to stop talking to his father-in-law about anything having to do with russia. joining me is ned price.

former security director, and from new york, nick ackerman. let's start with you. the president's layers apparently want him to stop talking about russia. is it time for the president, himself, to distance himself from his son-in-law? >> jared is omnipresent in this administration. two is that scandal has followed jared everywhere he has gone. i don't think we can say just yet, but -- >> when you say scandal has followed him everywhere. >> jared did not report his meetings with the ambassador. he did not disclose meeting with the head of a russian bank. he prepared a covert back

channel with the russians so evade detection. and it was jared that, for months, allowed his colleagues from the president on down, to deny any meetings of that sort took place. he made liars out of all of them for months. >> nick, according to the time article, kushner says he failed to read to the bottom of the e-mail invitation to that meeting. if you didn't read all of the way down, read that it was a promise from the russian informati information, does that clear him? >> the idea that he didn't read through that entire e-mail is preposterous. this entire meeting putting him in the soup big time. one, it shows that with respect to his lies on his national security clearance form, he had

every motive not to put down that meeting with the russians. it really enhances his motive, not an element of the crime, but certainly enhances an element of the crime that is tmateriality and why his lie was material. at the same time, it was the same time that jartt kushner took over the entire part of the campaign that had to do with the data management and micro targeting. it is another allegation that comes up with respect to a experience between the campaign and the russian government. >> take him at his word, say he didn't read to the bottom. every case i get, and one of the biggest excuses is i just didn't

read the entire e-mail, it really doesn't ring true. why would you go to a meeting with donald junior and the campaign manager without understanding what it was about? it just doesn't pass the smell test. >> ned, the "new york times" had an op-ed today that said all roads lead to kushner and he ended it by saying it's time for him not to have security clearance any longer. he says ultimately it's the president's decision. he can change the rules to make it so he has security clearance. >> we heard of many scandals in the past couple days especially, but this is another scandal. he reported to the west wing with his security clearance in tact. if i, as a career cia officer. if i did a tenth or a hundredth of the things he did, i would

not only be fired, i may have lost my bibberty. there is not two standards for the powerful and connected and for career civil servants. it should be at the discretion of professionals, not at the whim of a political leader. >> there is a report right now that the intel committee and the administration want to know if he helped guide russian meddling. angus king was on earlier and he said this. >> i can tell you that is an area of inquiry and an area of whether or not there was coordination. >> how much. >> i think it is important because we learn that the republican -- the trump campaign

use of social need media in the month of the campaign was extremely effective. who was doing the immaterial plemting, how did it wor-- implementing, how did it affect everything? >> this is one of the most significant allegations in this entire matter. the idea, it used to be a campaign would identify voters and get them out to vote. this was a situation where they identified the other side's voters and tried to suppress that vote and it appears to have been done through the russian government through all of the social media statements on facebook and twitter to make hillary clinton voters feel as though they should not vote for her. one of the most serious agen allegations. >> also that that report just

says the intell committees are looking into it, but they don't necessarily have any evidence to support that claim as of now, ned price and former assistance special water gate prosecutor, nick ackerman, thank you very much. no secret the relationship between the two new presidents got off to a rocky start, but did they find new possibilities for common ground today? first, a story that unfolded while you were not looking, democrats flipped two state house seats in oklahoma. the party won in part by leveraging voter frustration over the state's budget problems and recent sex scandals. one of the flips happened in tulsa's district 75. it has been in gop control for 20 years. democrats picked up for legislative seats in special elections this cycle, republicans have picked up one.

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how about paris, the toughest gun laws in the world, paris. can't have a gun, right?

they talk about gun laws. it means you're sitting ducks. they go kill 130 people. >> i have a friend who is a very, very substantial guy. he loves the city of lights. he loves paris. i have not seen him in awhile. i said -- he is talking about jim, the mysterious jim who may not want to go to paris any more, but the president changed his tune on the city of lights. >> i think this is one of the greatest most beautiful cities in the world. you have a great leader, a tough president. he is not going to be easy on people that are breaking the laws and people that show this tremendous violence. so i really have a feeling that

you will have a very peaceful and beautiful paris and i'm coming back. >> also some serious business to conduct in pearce. they talked about a number of ie of disagreement between the two leaders. joining me here in washington to talk about this is former white house director and state department spokesman and a former white house middle east policy advisor. >> guys, i want to start with a moment that isn't necessarily policy related right off the top, but it's getting a lot of play. this is donald trump remarking on president ma krone's wife. >> that made me cringe a little bit. i will admit, yes, because it only furthers this narrative that the united states has this

president who only seize women as objects and bodies and not as intelligent minds. particularly interesting that he sounded surprised that the first lady of france had a good body, and i don't know if there was some ageist comment involved with that as well, but lots of layers of that that don't point to any growth on behalf of our president when it comes to dealing with women in the workplace. >> let's put that to the side. president trump and emmanuel macron don't have a lot in common, but they do have a lot of common. both were outsiders coming in to run a government 6789 why has emmanuel macron been so much more successful so far than president trump? >> i just came back from paris and it's extraordinary to watch. you see, what ma krone really did is he started an entirely new political movement and not only did he start it from scratch, but the entire french political order was desirous of having a new sweep come throughful and he transformed

his presidential election into the transformation of a new political party in which he was able to sweep the elections and the national asemireply where he now controls a vast majority with a national assembly. so the difference between mr. trump and mr. macron is that mr. trump inherited a stale political republican party that doesn't share -- >> could e made his own party, though, could he have slufd off the party once he won and said, listen, now we're going to find a way to work together and i'm going to create a coalition of people who want to get things done? >> remember when he ran, katie, he really expressed great dislike for paul ryan. and a lot of the republican political leaders. and it's interesting, although a third party candidacy in this country would have been extraordinarily difficult, let's recall that if he had reached across the aisle and used his in effect many of his ten tryst ideological views he could have

fornld a greater political spectrum that would have given him more of a legislative leeway. and macron is doing that. >> really it does seem at the moment and how he certainly handles national security issues is what will help him politically in that moment and that day. hence this entire france trip while we have the cloud of russia hanging over us. the irony is that france had to deal with quite a bit of russian interference. his opposition actually met with putin and received an official endorsement. trying to take down newspapers, trying to take down tv stations at the same time, were the french people were prepared to deal with fake news and were prepared to look at things critically, so it did not have nearly impact in the macron election as it did here in the united states putting him in a really strong position. he's not plaig to his domestic audience right now because he's

already popular. he is playing to a broader european audience to look like the new leader of the free world. >> koez i go up to donald trump is that going to gain him points. >> it shows he is tamg the beast. he came back to france and told is the people that he was not going to give any ground to tie rant type people, even in these small symbolic ways. so this is part of a larger play that, look, i am the only one that can bring donald trump to the table. there is the power of the united states. he was isolated at the g20. people called it the g. 19 and for macron to be able to show that he can actually get some policy and the u.s. behind his agenda makes him look much stronger compared to someone like angela merkel, who keeps getting put side to side with vang trump, not donald trump. >> now you're a hawk and if you want to get more about how donald trump and macron and differing, go lack at

ambassador's op ed. >> ma kron. >> ma kroon, not mook roon. >> i want a mack roon now. guys, thank you very much. coming up next, we are going to have one more thing for you right after the break, a snap of massive proportions at the bottom of the world. but first, we just heard from texas senator ted cruz for the first time since today's debut of the revised healthcare plan it includes an amendment that he crafted and here is what he told msnbc moments ago. >> the bill today reflect the input from senators across the spectrum. it's not the ideal bill i'd like to pass. i suspect there may not be a single senator for whom it's the ideal bill they'd like to pass, but it does reflect a bill that reflects the concerns expressed across the conference. i think that's how we actually come together and honor our promise to repeal obamacare. flsh

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. we've got one more thing before we leave you, imagine a block of ice the size of delaware. well, that is how much ice broke off a section of the ant arctic this week. scientists with the british ant arctic survey said months after hanging off a thin t thread break off the ice shelf. now it is technically a giant iceberg just floating around despite its whopping weight of more than one trillion tons.

as for impact to humans, we'll have to wait and see, but experts believe once the chunk melts, we will see a rises in sea levels. wow, that's a big chunk of ice. and that will wrap things up for me this hour. i feel so far away from you today. >> yeah. you are far away from me. but, you know, i never know whether to wish you a good rest of your day or are you back anchoring later on? >> i'm not back anchoring later on today, but i am still working. >> enjoy the rest of your arch, katie. always my pleasure to see you. i'm going to quote some audrey help burn here. she says paris is always a good idea. but this afternoon that controversy has followed the president across the ocean 3,800 miles away. the leader of the free world only took one question from a fellow american at today's press conference. you could probably guess what it was about, his son. and now that i